Fire/Fire brute build needed

[Tortuga]

Ooga booga,
I'm looking at respecing Dangerous Dave before Friday's freebie hits, so I need some advice for rebuilding him.  I find his current build is just way too delicate (not even mentioning his lack of knockdown protection -- which is coming once he can afford a Steadfast Protection knockback thingie).

So, any ideas for building a more powerful, less delicate fire/fire brute?

[Verfall]

re-roll as stone or ss/fire?

Seriously.....

[BlueBard]

Bearing in mind that I'm not the most experienced player out there, maybe I can at least contribute some suggestions...

You said respec so let's go with that, shall we?  Why not post your current build (or a reasonable approximation of it)?

I know some folks pooh-pooh concept, but I take it pretty seriously.  What's your concept for the character?  That would help guide what choices you need to make.

[Tortuga]

I've considered rerolling, but no other primary fits the character as well as fire.  Dangerous Dave is Circus Infamous' stunt man -- and he's constantly on fire.  I've avoided taking Acrobatics because getting knocked down/back/up was all part of how dangerous he is... "It's okay! I'm a stuntman!"  But now, it seems every mob he fights has knock-something and it's getting bothersome -- plus it'll be hard to team when people see how flopsy and delicate he is.

Are there certain IO sets that would really benefit a fire/fire brute?

[BlueBard]

I found this:  http://www.rpgnexus.org/salvage/default.asp?c=setstosalvage

It's not totally current, but it's a quick way to look up set bonuses by category; just mouse over the sets you're interested in.  If you stack enough of them you might get closer to what you want.  It will also tell you what salvage you need to build it.

What kinds of damage or effects do you need to mitigate the most?  (I understand KB protection is a given, but it's also expensive...)

Also the Devs have added a lot of effect suppression in I12; theoretically it should keep you from getting repeatedly knocked down to the point where you can't fight.  Not sure how much of that extends to PvE, though.

Question for the experts: Does PBAoE contribute to Fury?  If not, dropping something like Blazing Aura in favor of another attack for the attack chain might help put enemies down faster (and reduce the need for extra defense/resistance).

[Verfall]

Fire/fire suffers from one major foul up, practically zero damage mitigation. You're awesome versus minions and some lt's, but bosses will eat you alive.

The only real fixes:

Grab air superiority. It's consistent knockdown will shave a bit of that problem off.

Next, grab hasten and shoot for recharge bonuses. You live or die by healing flames, so the quicker it's up, the better.

And get some form of KB protection. If you go with Air Sup, the kinetic crash set has 3 points of protection if you slot 4 of them. Unfortunately that meamns air sup will start doing knockback over knockdown, but it's a cheaper way to get KB protection.

Don't drop blazing aura, slot it for damage instead. It's a big damage dealer when your fury is up, as wella s your taunt aura. Dropping it would be foolish.

And basically, get used to dying a lot in team situations. Fire/Fire is extremely powerful with the right buffs, but without those you're often seconds away from death.

[captainspud]

Actually, Fire armor has GREAT damage mitigation-- it's called Burn. You drop it, the horde around you dances off the patch, takes one shot at you from the edge, runs back in, punches, runs back out, shoots, etc etc etc. The mobs don't actually scatter all around, they just mill around in circles, only kicking you half the time.

[GhostMachine]

Actually, Fire armor has GREAT damage mitigation-- it's called Burn. You drop it, the horde around you dances off the patch, takes one shot at you from the edge, runs back in, punches, runs back out, shoots, etc etc etc. The mobs don't actually scatter all around, they just mill around in circles, only kicking you half the time.

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Spud on this, but he's right. I just recently got Burn on my Fire/Axe Tanker, and its now my primary damage dealer when I'm teaming or have several mobs on me while playing him.

And keeping Blazing Aura is a must. Seriously.

You're a braver man than I am if you're running fire/fire; I've never considered going that route, hero or villain. The worst tanker I ever grouped with was fire/fire, so that may have something to do with it.....

[BlueBard]

Question for the experts: Does PBAoE contribute to Fury?  If not, dropping something like Blazing Aura in favor of another attack for the attack chain might help put enemies down faster (and reduce the need for extra defense/resistance).

Don't drop blazing aura, slot it for damage instead. It's a big damage dealer when your fury is up, as wella s your taunt aura. Dropping it would be foolish.

That answers that question. :)  I'm not used to Fury and didn't know if PBAoE applied or not.  So 3-4 slotting it with Scirocco's Dervish would be helpful for the Regen bonus.  Slot Healing Flames with Miracle (or optimally Numina's Convalescence).  It's not a fix, but it would help.

I just started a Fire/Fire Scrapper, so some of these issues will eventually apply (sans the need to stoke Fury).

[BlueBard]

You're a braver man than I am if you're running fire/fire; I've never considered going that route, hero or villain. The worst tanker I ever grouped with was fire/fire, so that may have something to do with it.....

On a Tangent --> Stone/Fire (Tank) is awesome.  The aggro level stays high while the defense keeps you alive.  I run around with Mud Pots on, drop Combustion as it comes up, and fill in with Breath of Fire and other assorted attacks.  The downside is the speed penalty associated with Rooted (and Granite).  End management is also important, with all those toggles running.  GeoFire doesn't do a lot of damage, but he takes most of the hits for any team he's on.

I've never wanted to play a Fire/Fire Tank, but I like my Fire/Fire Blaster and I'm taking a shine to my shiny new Fire/Fire Scrapper.

[Tortuga]

Thanks for the advice.  I guessed that recharge bonuses were what I should focus on IO-wise, since Fire's attacks seem kinda slow compared to other brutes.  Now that they've integrated that fancy power info window, I should check that all out.

Hasten and Air Superiority would be the biggest changes.  I wish wish wish Dangerous Dave could have a perma-jet pack (the first Christmas jet pack was part of the inspiration behind Dave) and then he could take flight.  Maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and change him from jumping to flight and pick up some jet boots.  It would mean losing an attack or two, but some of them are horrendously redundant anyway (animation-wise).

Now I just need to get him to 37 tonight (9 bars to go!) to take advantage of the freespec.  If anyone's up for highish villain teaming, I'll be on around 9 pm EST or so.

Tort

[Verfall]

Actually, Fire armor has GREAT damage mitigation-- it's called Burn. You drop it, the horde around you dances off the patch, takes one shot at you from the edge, runs back in, punches, runs back out, shoots, etc etc etc. The mobs don't actually scatter all around, they just mill around in circles, only kicking you half the time.

It also kills fury and is mostly useless for a brute till 41 and his immob. While they're running, they're not hitting you and you're not hitting them, watch fury drop like a rock. I know, I took it on Verd on test. My fury was pathetic and I only found it ueful for av's and eb's that didn't run.

[Midnight]

Okay, top to bottom:

My fire/fire tank has two Steadfast Protection +KB Protection IOs. From what I hear, they've gone up in price since the Acrobatics nerf. Two KB Protection IOs (Mag 8 protection) will generally cover everything short of AVs and Fake Nemmies.

Don't drop Blazing Aura. When I played my fire/fire tank to 50, HeroStats clocked the overall damage output of Blazing Aura as higher than any other power.

I also took Tough to boost SL resistance. Unfortunately, he's still no where near the cap, but it helps. As I recall, this led to endurance problems in the high 40s. This also left him with Boxing. Brawl 2.0.

I can't speak for brutes, but my tank was a blast to play. He soloed a lot, but on all but the most incompetent of PUGs, he fairly survivable.

Anyway, here's what my fire/fire tank looks like..

[AncientSpirit]

Midnight, I just respeced out of Acrobatics because since I12 he's been getting knocked around a lot.

Thanks for the tip about Steadfast Protection and KB protection.   Where do you put them?  Are some places more effective than others or no difference?

[Midnight]

Steadfast goes in any power that accepts resistance enhancements. There's another set with a KB protect, Karma. That goes in any power that accepts defense enhancements. Their effectiveness doesn't vary.

[El Condor]

Midnight, I just respeced out of Acrobatics because since I12 he's been getting knocked around a lot.

BTW Acro was indeed nerfed heavily, but the protection is still better than two KB IOs (mag 9 for Acro vs. mag 8 for the two IOs).  A lot of people are leaping off of the Acro ship, but it's still perfectly viable KB protection if it fits your build.

EC

[Verfall]

Most KB is covered by one IO, 99% is covered by 2. Verd has 3 and that's basically overkill. The only thing that will get you is Force Bolts from Ballistas, Nemesis and such and States' Knockout Blow.

Not even the knockdown from the RWZ towers can get past 3 of em.

[Bugbear]

I wish wish wish Dangerous Dave could have a perma-jet pack (the first Christmas jet pack was part of the inspiration behind Dave) and then he could take flight. 

Do you have the GVE jump pack?

Click on the power while it's recharging and it will appear and remain visible until you zone (although the power itself won't be on).

-BG

[BlueBard]

I wish wish wish Dangerous Dave could have a perma-jet pack (the first Christmas jet pack was part of the inspiration behind Dave) and then he could take flight. 

Do you have the GVE jump pack?

Click on the power while it's recharging and it will appear and remain visible until you zone (although the power itself won't be on).

-BG

Cool tip!  Thanks!

[Tortuga]

I wish wish wish Dangerous Dave could have a perma-jet pack (the first Christmas jet pack was part of the inspiration behind Dave) and then he could take flight. 

Do you have the GVE jump pack?

Click on the power while it's recharging and it will appear and remain visible until you zone (although the power itself won't be on).

-BG

I've noticed that before.  I've also noticed that if it's active when you zone, the time seems to restart when you reappear in the next zone.  Seems to...I've never counted it or anything.

Dave is all respecced and slotted with IOs.  He's actually much more functional than he was before -- thanks for the advice, everybody.

[Tortuga]

And thanks for the Steadfast KB IO, Ver.  Dave is less stuntmanish  :(, but more playable already.

[Verfall]

It's only 4 points, you'll still get knocked back enough to keep with the concept.