Freedom Reborn

Community Forums => Film, Television, Video and Music Discussion => Topic started by: Figure Fan on December 23, 2008, 07:06:03 PM

Title: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on December 23, 2008, 07:06:03 PM
I thought I'd start a new thread for the film. If anyone wants to link to the video diaries and any other content that's been released, feel free. I'll try and compile some stuff as well.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Uncle Yuan on December 24, 2008, 01:56:38 AM
I thought about getting the GN for my 15 year old for Christmas.  Then I paged through it again and decided, um, maybe next year . . . (Dr. Manhattan is naked!!!)
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on December 24, 2008, 02:31:51 AM
Quote from: Uncle Yuan on December 24, 2008, 01:56:38 AM
I thought about getting the GN for my 15 year old for Christmas.  Then I paged through it again and decided, um, maybe next year . . . (Dr. Manhattan is naked!!!)

Hahaha! Yeah, I read it when I was 17 (almost 18). It's not THAT bad, but then again..my eyes have seen MUCH worse..
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: GogglesPizanno on December 24, 2008, 03:17:13 AM
Quote from: Uncle Yuan on December 24, 2008, 01:56:38 AM
I thought about getting the GN for my 15 year old for Christmas.  Then I paged through it again and decided, um, maybe next year . . . (Dr. Manhattan is naked!!!)

Apparently hes full on naked in the movie as well.

Maybe Im late to the party but have people seen these?
http://www.watchmencomicmovie.com/watchmen-motion-comics-episodes.php

For the purists afraid of the movie cutting or changing the GN, it looks like each comic issue animated using the original art and panels only with music and fx and narration for $1.99 each.

They are currently up through #7.
I watched a sample and I was intrigued....
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on December 24, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
Holy damn, Matt Frewer is in this movie!

I'm still skeptical at how much a lot of these actors don't look like their characters, but Matt Frewer? He was in Honey I Shrunk the Kids and an episode of TNG!
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on December 24, 2008, 05:26:30 PM
I really disliked the guy doing the narration in the comics.  And when he (badly) attempted to do all the different voices, that was a deal-breaker.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: GogglesPizanno on December 24, 2008, 06:33:20 PM
QuoteI'm still skeptical at how much a lot of these actors don't look like their characters, but Matt Frewer? He was in Honey I Shrunk the Kids and an episode of TNG!

Oh you Young un's....
Matt Frewer is and will always be Max Headroom...
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on December 24, 2008, 11:00:31 PM
He's a perfect Moloch  :thumbup:

He was in Zack Synder's Dawn of The Dead too.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on December 24, 2008, 11:57:28 PM
Quote from: BWPS on December 24, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
Holy damn, Matt Frewer is in this movie!

I'm still skeptical at how much a lot of these actors don't look like their characters, but Matt Frewer? He was in Honey I Shrunk the Kids and an episode of TNG!

I'm not really sure about which characters you're referring to. The only one I could see being somewhat off is Veidt, but then again, Goode looks close enough. The rest, however, are practically dead-ringers. Especially Silk Specter II. They even got Rorschach's height right.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on December 25, 2008, 05:05:52 AM
Quote from: Figure Fan on December 24, 2008, 11:57:28 PM
Quote from: BWPS on December 24, 2008, 04:51:15 PM
Holy damn, Matt Frewer is in this movie!

I'm still skeptical at how much a lot of these actors don't look like their characters, but Matt Frewer? He was in Honey I Shrunk the Kids and an episode of TNG!

I'm not really sure about which characters you're referring to. The only one I could see being somewhat off is Veidt, but then again, Goode looks close enough. The rest, however, are practically dead-ringers. Especially Silk Specter II. They even got Rorschach's height right.

Rorschach doesn't look anything like the actor. Big Figure was a frail old man, as much as I like Mickey that was off. Some people just need hair changes though, you're right. I do like the sexy dead guy who is still in every episode of Grey's Anatomy even though he's dead I mean I don't watch Grey's anatomy I'm awesome as The Comedian.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: GogglesPizanno on December 25, 2008, 07:08:43 AM
The comedian is the Dad from Supernatural... That automatically makes him awesome.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Midnite on December 25, 2008, 06:41:51 PM
Judge Rules for 20th Century Fox in Watchmen Case (http://www.superherohype.com/news/watchmennews.php?id=7936) :thumbdown:
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on December 25, 2008, 10:07:47 PM
Quote from: Midnite on December 25, 2008, 06:41:51 PM
Judge Rules for 20th Century Fox in Watchmen Case (http://www.superherohype.com/news/watchmennews.php?id=7936) :thumbdown:

Yeah, but Fox won't delay the film. They want to make killing, too.

Can you say "publicity stunt"?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on December 26, 2008, 04:14:58 AM
Wow, seriously.

The New York Times is publishing this story in depth in their papers. I don't see how anyone else can't see this as a stunt to boost the popularity of this movie. I mean, people are going to fretting over whether or not it's going to be released for the next two months, and it's advertising potential is going to shoot through the roof. People will then pour in to witness "the movie that almost never was".

It's so..simple..really.

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on December 26, 2008, 03:16:25 PM
I'm not so sure.  As I understand it, Fox wants to release the 60's Batman series on DVD, but WB owns the rights.  I could very easily see Fox screwing this up and delaying the release because of that issue.

Although I think a summer release would be better, myself.  I was never happy with the original datem asJan- March are where studios usually dump the stuff they think is crap and have no confidence in.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on December 26, 2008, 07:15:51 PM
Quote from: bredon7777 on December 26, 2008, 03:16:25 PM
I'm not so sure.  As I understand it, Fox wants to release the 60's Batman series on DVD, but WB owns the rights.  I could very easily see Fox screwing this up and delaying the release because of that issue.

Although I think a summer release would be better, myself.  I was never happy with the original datem asJan- March are where studios usually dump the stuff they think is crap and have no confidence in.

Actually, March has proven to be quite successful for films like this. Think back a few years to V for Vendetta and 300. They each made a killing in early March. Plus, having it come out on 03-06-09 at 12 (midnight) is just too cool. I think a Summer release wouldn't be a good time for this movie, just because there will probably be more popcorn flick-ish films coming out then that will overshadow it.

They'll probably settle this one out of court. I just want to see the movie that WB intended for us to see, regardless of who makes what percentage from the gross.
Title: New Exclusive Watchmen Video w/ Zack Snyder
Post by: Figure Fan on December 31, 2008, 04:05:44 AM
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&VideoID=48917596

Check it outtt. Tons of new footage here.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: MJB on December 31, 2008, 08:45:23 AM
I hope the actual movie is half as good as all the previews make it out to be.

-MJB
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on December 31, 2008, 04:33:46 PM
Fox is asking for a halt to the release of the film.  WB is insisting on a trial (set for Jan 20) and not going to settle.  I'm thinking we can kiss a March release date goodbye.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_en_ot/film_watchmen_suit
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on December 31, 2008, 06:44:36 PM
Quote from: bredon7777 on December 31, 2008, 04:33:46 PM
Fox is asking for a halt to the release of the film.  WB is insisting on a trial (set for Jan 20) and not going to settle.  I'm thinking we can kiss a March release date goodbye.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081229/ap_en_ot/film_watchmen_suit

Yeah, I already read this on SuperHeroHype. I didn't post it on here because it's just more dramatic hype.

Here's what's interesting:

Isn't funny how MySpace, which is owned by News Corp, which in turn owns Fox, just posted a new video about the WB film which totes the 3/6/09 release date? Until I have GOOD reason to believe that they aren't creating all this drama for the sake of publicity, I'm not convinced that I won't be sitting in a theater on March 6, 2009 seeing this movie.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on January 07, 2009, 12:08:40 AM
Japanese Watchmen trailer

http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/watchmen/japanese-trailer (http://www.traileraddict.com/trailer/watchmen/japanese-trailer)

Looks like the Hollis Mason / "In Gratitude" scene is still in the movie.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: The Hitman on January 07, 2009, 12:17:34 AM
My goodness, that looked cool.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on January 07, 2009, 01:08:21 AM
AGREED.

This is probably the best look we've had at the movie thus far, and my does it look interesting. They really are packing in a lot of small details, too.

Two more months!
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Midnite on January 16, 2009, 03:13:40 AM
Warners, Fox settle over 'Watchmen' (http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/film/news/e3i2079648bd224e2c82155a1306806e56f)

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on January 16, 2009, 05:59:15 AM
Welp, I was right. :)

All for the publicity..

Oh well. We get to see the movie on time. I'm super excited!
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: detourne_me on January 22, 2009, 05:21:19 AM
new viral video... this one is pretty cool
http://www.superherohype.com/news/watchmennews.php?id=8002
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: The Hitman on February 03, 2009, 04:24:54 PM
Thought this was kinda funny...

http://www.justpressplay.net/movies/movie-news/4758-funny-zack-snyders-qwatchmenq-sequel-idea.html
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: cripp12 on February 17, 2009, 04:40:42 PM
I have a question.
1. Having never read Watchmen should I before the movie. If so which book.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Gremlin on February 17, 2009, 05:15:43 PM
Quote from: cripp12 on February 17, 2009, 04:40:42 PM
I have a question.
1. Having never read Watchmen should I before the movie. If so which book.


Definitely read it. It's a self contained story, so it's all collected in one trade.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: AncientSpirit on February 17, 2009, 05:34:29 PM
Does anybody else feel the way I do?   They are showig WAY too many clips from this movie!!!!

I love what I've seen.   But now I find myself just trying to AVOID the teasers. 

I realize that all the trailers and hype are for the jillions of people who know nothing about the Watchmen and need to be sold on seeing it.   BUT I'M GETTING TIRED OF CLOSING MY EYES AND SINGING LA, LA,LA,LA,LA,LA,LA,LA to block out all the sights and sounds they keep showing.

This movie's timing is perfect.   There's been so many Superman, Batman, X-men, Fan4, Hulk, Iron Man, Incredibles, Super X-Girlfriend, etc, movies -- that the public now knows enough about basic superheroes to appreciate this film even if they've never opened Comic Book One.

(Now, if they would only make my other all time favorite piece of fiction - Stranger in a Stranage Land - I could die happy.)




Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on February 17, 2009, 06:37:35 PM
Oh, yeah. The trailers are so stupid, so many scenes from the end of the story. I guess they wanted the effects-heavy stuff in the trailer, but they basically spoiled the ending (including the big part they changed). I hate trailers as much as I love them.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on February 17, 2009, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: BWPS on February 17, 2009, 06:37:35 PMI hate trailers as much as I love them.

The thing I like about all the comprehensive trailers they make these days is that sometimes, they're a good enough substitute for the actual movie. Most recent comedies feature their best joke(s) in the trailer, so I don't really have to waste my money on a movie ticket and wade through an hour-and-a-half of filler just to get to the actual funny stuff.   
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Uncle Yuan on February 17, 2009, 11:43:13 PM
Quote from: zuludelta on February 17, 2009, 06:42:45 PM
Quote from: BWPS on February 17, 2009, 06:37:35 PMI hate trailers as much as I love them.

The thing I like about all the comprehensive trailers they make these days is that sometimes, they're a good enough substitute for the actual movie. Most recent comedies feature their best joke(s) in the trailer, so I don't really have to waste my money on a movie ticket and wade through an hour-and-a-half of filler just to get to the actual funny stuff.   

Reminds me of a recent Onion video story about how, based on the success of the movie trailers, they decided to make a feature length Iron Man movie . . .

http://www.theonion.com/content/video/wildly_popular_iron_man_trailer
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on February 19, 2009, 06:23:09 AM
finally finished reading the book, and now I can't wait to see the movie. Only a couple more weeks!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: El Condor on February 21, 2009, 05:32:52 AM
From Wil Wheaton's (yes, THAT Wil Wheaton) blog. (http://wilwheaton.typepad.com/wwdnbackup/2009/02/spoiler-alert-watchmen-is-frelling-awesome.html) He got to see an advance screening and looooooved it. *Warning* Wil uses some pretty salty language, and does run on a bit. But the praise is quite encouraging, indeed.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Zippo on February 23, 2009, 07:58:06 PM
Well, I just scored a ticket to an advanced screening on the 5th, so you guys can expect to see my reaction that evening.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on February 27, 2009, 12:37:31 AM
so far, the movie is getting pretty good pre-reviews at Rottentomatoes, currently around 75% or so.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: konbiz on February 27, 2009, 12:27:59 PM
I bought 50 tickets to take students for free at my university for opening night. I'm really excited.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Mr. Hamrick on March 02, 2009, 07:53:34 PM
Heading out this afternoon to go see WATCHMEN at a press screening with comic artist Steve Scott. 

I will not be giving any reviews till Thursday morning 7:30 AM on the radio at the earlier.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Cyber Burn on March 03, 2009, 01:19:31 AM
   I am soo looking forward to this, and yes, my inner geek IS showing. (At least, that's what my wife keeps saying)
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on March 04, 2009, 04:59:27 AM
I just found out that Snake wrote the script. Awesome. He writes good scripts.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Panther_Gunn on March 04, 2009, 03:23:08 PM
Quote from: BWPS on March 04, 2009, 04:59:27 AM
I just found out that Snake wrote the script. Awesome. He writes good scripts.

Snake Pliskin?  I heard he was dead.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on March 04, 2009, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on March 04, 2009, 03:23:08 PM
Quote from: BWPS on March 04, 2009, 04:59:27 AM
I just found out that Snake wrote the script. Awesome. He writes good scripts.

Snake Pliskin?  I heard he was dead.
No,  SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKE! ...David Hayter. He wrote the first two X-Mens and plays Snake on MGS.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Uncle Yuan on March 04, 2009, 04:39:32 PM
Don't go in there, Snake.  It's a bad place!  Snake!
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on March 05, 2009, 11:06:58 AM
Just watched it ... from the perspective of someone who read the comic beforehand, it was disappointing. I'd rather more of the dialogue been intact rather than adding graphic gore, kung-fu fight scenes, and swearing. I mean the scene where
Spoiler
Laurie and Dan literally KILL the gang in the alley? Rorchach graphically hacking the head of the leering kidnapper with a meat cleaver? Dr Manhattan turning guys into bloody gibbets hanging from the ceiling of the night-club? WTF?

Plus, from the perspective of someone who hadn't read the comic, i would have had no idea where
Spoiler
Bubastis (the giant lynx) and the Frontiersman newspaper
came from, as there was zero explanation for either, although I'm sure it'll be on the DVD.

The ending didn't have the impact that it should have.

Some of the acting was also quite misjudged, particularly Silk Spectre 1 & 2, and Ozymandias.

Dr Manhattan, Comedian and Rorscharch were great, though, as were some of the directorial flourishes.

So yeah, not sure how to judge this one. I'd like to hear the opinion of someone else who hadn't read the comic (the person I went with just dubbed the movie "weird" and a bit hard to follow).
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lgmss on March 05, 2009, 12:01:18 PM
They didn't say much about Bubastis in the comic either besides that Ozymandias created it. The Frontiersman newspaper however is a newpaper that Rorscharch reads, throughout the comic.

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 05, 2009, 04:54:09 PM
Rodger Ebert gave this a 4-star review :blink:

I guess you just have to be good at separating the two mediums. I have no problem with this task. If they want to keep a lot of the dialogue, fine. If not, fine. I am concerned about the gore, however. Then again, Watchmen had quite a bit of blood and guts, but it was easy to look at when it was borderline magenta on the page. *shrugs*
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lugaru on March 05, 2009, 05:35:02 PM
Ebert is a closet geek (read his original X-Men review) who is really good at not judging every single movie like it is nominated for best drama. Usually if it entertains him, or if he realizes it is a good entry into it's genre, he will give it some love.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on March 06, 2009, 12:42:52 AM
Quote from: lgmss on March 05, 2009, 12:01:18 PM
They didn't say much about Bubastis in the comic either besides that Ozymandias created it. The Frontiersman newspaper however is a newpaper that Rorscharch reads, throughout the comic.



The comic explained that Bubastis was the result of genetic engineering, which tied into
Spoiler
the creation of the giant alien.
In the film, Bubastis just appears out of nowhere towards the end ... a non-comic reader would be like "errrr, where did this weird-looking giant grey tiger thing with huge ears come from all of a sudden???"

The Frontiersman newspaper wasn't seen in the movie until Rorscharch dropped his diary into their door slot. Even then, it would have been unclear to someone who hadn't read the comic as to what was happening, as you just see the diary slipping through a door into a huge pile of mail.

The gore and violence in the movie is faaaaaar greater than the comic.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Zippo on March 06, 2009, 07:06:36 AM
Well, I just got back from the movie, and I gotta say I really enjoyed it. The soundtrack, if nothing else, was just great. The actors were spot on for the roles, IMO, and they really had a great voice for Dr. Manhattan.

As far as changes go:

Spoiler

  • Yes, they were put on a team named the Watchmen, but the original team is still called the Minutemen, and the "Watchmen" name is mentioned only briefly in passing and is barely noticable at all.
  • The change in the ending, in which they framed Dr. Manhattan for the destruction of New York rather than squid aliens, was pretty well done. After watching it I totally understand why they did it because, not only is it a little easier for audiences to accept than genetically engineered squid monsters that aren't mentioned at all until the end, but it gives everyone more of a reason to not just rely on Dr. Manhattan to fix all their problems and solidifies the need for the nations to come together in peace. So, while I must admit I have a soft spot for squid aliens, I was perfectly happy with the new ending.
Really, the only problem I had with the movie at all was the cheesy "NOOOOOOOO!" by Night Owl near the end. I hate it when people do that...

As a note, I've read the graphic novel, and have been a fan of it since before this movie was announced. Haha, not to be all "I liked it before it was cool" or anything, but just to give you guys a perspective of where I'm coming from in my opinions of the film.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: GogglesPizanno on March 06, 2009, 11:37:50 AM
So i read the graphic novel years ago when it was still a maxi-series or whatever they dubbed it. I remember a lot of it, but Im not up on the inner workings and intricacies of the story like some are. That said. I think they did a good job of translating a fairly dense story to a film. Yes some changes were made, but for the most part, I think they were reasonable in transitioning between mediums. However my problem with it is that I just dont know if it really works as a film near as well as a printed story. The whole thing just felt very sterile and detached. The actors were good, the sets were fantastic, the FX were mostly really good. But something about it just felt unemotional.

I went with some friends who had no clue about the story, and up until about half way they were liking it, but by the end they thought it lost its oomph and just started getting bogged down on itself. Plus they thought the ending for what it was was terribly underwhelming especially given the build up.

So i think if you like the comic, you will more or less like the movie to some degree... how much will vary, but its not like they totally ruined the source material -- its fairly faithful. If you don't know the comic, I think its going to be a bit of an uphill battle... especially given that its being marketed as a comic book super hero movie and the running time is almost 3 hours. Some of the non-comic people in the audience at my show were visibly bored by the time it ended.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on March 07, 2009, 06:07:23 AM
 :banghead: FAIL.
Why was the movie three hours long? Why should any movie be three hours long, but especially why this one? They wanted to make the movie almost exactly like the book only to change the ending? I hated it. The book was too full of stuff to have it all make it into the movie, but the squid wasn't one of the ones to be excluded.
I can enjoy movies that are different from the book, but not ones that rely on the book only to change things up at the end. As a movie that I can't judge because I knew everything that was going to happen, I think it had the gore, the effects, the setting and lighting, and Rorschach going for it and not much else.
I accidentally wore my Wal-Mart associate of the month shirt without realizing what Wal-Mart's logo was until after the movie started. I laughed.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: stumpy on March 07, 2009, 08:27:54 AM
I liked it. I really thought it was very good, both as an adaptation of the graphic novel and as a movie on its own merits.

Spoiler
I still think the comics were better, largely because there are some things that got a bit more detail (e.g. like Rorschach's interaction with his prison therapist) that I missed a bit in the movie. But, I really have to say that some "changes" in the movie really worked much better in that format than the comic version would have. For instance, the change where Doc Manhattan became the public bogeyman instead of the psychic explosion squid was a much better choice for film and, arguably, would have worked just as well in the comics, though it would have undermined the motivation for the pirate B story. And, even the parts that I didn't like in the comic (DM's silly revelation about a thermodynamic miracle) at least weren't any worse in the movie.

I'm not saying it was perfect, but it was pretty darned good. To my thinking, it captured most all of the important story points in the comic, it didn't really oversimplify any major character in a way that bothered me. There was hope and disillusionment and then hope again. Rorschach still felt like Rorschach to me. Doc M's growing separation from humanity was believable (though the movie never made clear the government's role in encouraging his relationship with Laurie). There was a reality to the passivity and lack of purpose that Owlman experienced. Conversely, I thought Rorschach's semi-psychotic passion and sense of integrity came through (and I really appreciate that in a movie, where it is tempting to make that sort of a character either a complete psycho or a cool "bad boy" type). I even think I understood Sally Jupiter's forgiveness of Blake better than I did from the comic, although most of that may be that I was a teenager when I first read it and didn't understand the need to emotionally put to rest some of life's injustices in order to enjoy life's gifts. Even the Comedian came across as a character with some nuance, when it might have been easy to portray him as an unsubtle bad guy.

Of course, I really can't say if what I took away from the movie is anything like what someone who hadn't read the comic would have taken away from it. But, I liked it. And, for good or ill, I like Snyder's action sequences and stylized combat. I will likely buy the DVD when it comes out.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 08:58:56 AM
I just went to the movie tonight. And from someone who just read the graphic novel not even a month ago, in a word, the movie was...ugh.

Disappointing overall, while bits and pieces were really good. But ultimately (and I'll probably be in the minority here, but so be it) I found the movie to be a victim of its own fans and cult following.

Spoiler

Let's face it: this movie had a LOT of pressure on it's shoulders from its rabid fan base. Anything remotely different from the novel implemented into the movie and fans would tear it to shreds. Just look at the squid fiasco. If anyone actually thinks a general audience would swallow a giant alien squid, they're nuts. The altered ending is ultimately a better one for a film, but that's not the problem with this movie. Not by a long shot.

I feel that the problem with this movie is that it follows its source material almost exactly. It's great that Snyder sticks so closely to it, but so much so that it makes for a drawn out and drab movie? This is proof that you can't just recreate scenes from a comic and expect it to be a great movie. The monologues in particular are a dead give away here. Dr. Manhattan's thoughts on his past were interesting in the book, but were one of the most boring parts of the movie. All in all, the movie just flatout didn't flow right, and the character development was almost completely gone. I'm sorry, I'm actually pretty surprised at how good of reviews this is getting, both professionally and even here from long time fans.

Rorschach is far and away the best thing about this film. I also really liked Patrick Wilson as Night Owl. In fact, I wish the movie would have played up their angle more, because I felt the movie never really focused on anything at all as a whole.

I went with 4 others who were not familiar at all with the story: my girlfriend and 3 friends. Oddly enough, my girlfriend seemed to think it was ok, while the others flatout said they hated it. In fact, most of the theater seemed to hate it. And I can't really blame them... :( The first thing they asked me when the movie was over: what the hell was that horned tiger thing? Yeah, I had a hard time explaining what it was in a believable fashion. God, if you're not going to include the squid, then why the hell did they include the mutant lynx, which served absolutely no purpose other than to confuse the hell out of people? Ugh. And oh my god, they should have gotten rid of Richard Nixon. The makeup job was distractingly awful. People laughed whenever he showed up on screen. They should have just went with another president, either Reagan or someone made up.

and the soundtrack they chose, except the one during the beginning credits, were terrible choices.

I'm sorry. I did not think this was a good adaptation, guys.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 07, 2009, 10:14:28 AM
I'll probably see the movie this weekend, out of curiousity more than anything else. It seems to be one of those polarizing films from the reviews I've read so far (both here and elsewehere), people either liked it or hated it, with little middle ground. 3 hours though... that's about half an hour beyond my usual sitting-in-a-cinema endurance, and seems like an awfully long time to commit to a film that I might end up hating.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: The Enigma on March 07, 2009, 10:33:37 AM
I'll either love it or hate it. For a long, long time, I thought it would be the latter. However the talk of "slavishness to the point of irritation" with the source material is exactly what I want from a Watchmen adaptation (sorry, is my fanboiness showing a little?). I'm withholding judgement about the ending and, indeed, about the entire film until I see it on Monday evening. In the meantime, my copy of Watchmen is getting increasingly battered as it makes the rounds with all my friends.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: thanoson on March 07, 2009, 05:01:08 PM
Hmm.... I get to see it tommorrow. I bought the book for my gf and she wants to see it for her bday. SHe's awesome. I'll give my review as well afterwards.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on March 07, 2009, 09:48:15 PM
I'll do a more detailed post later, but I just wanted to chime in on two points:

a) That was very nearly almost the best possible movie that could've been made from the source material.  I still maintain that a 6-12 hour miniseries could be made that would surpass this, but for a movie - this was very good.  Shame that I was hoping for great, though.

b) To the Marvell- well, I guess I'm nuts.  I've certainly seen no evidence to back up your assumption.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 09:57:20 PM
Spoiler

You honestly think your average movie goer would find conjuring up a giant alien squid as the finale not absolutely ridiculous?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: tommyboy on March 07, 2009, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 09:57:20 PM
Spoiler

You honestly think your average movie goer would find conjuring up a giant alien squid as the finale not absolutely ridiculous?

Spoiler
Godzilla, Cloverfield, Independance Day, Alien, Predator, Starship Troopers, etc etc etc etc etc.
The fact that it wasn't an actual alien in the story, but an SFX conjured up by the sorts used by film companies makes it less of a stretch than the above.
As for the credibility of the hoax; see Wells, Orson, War of the Worlds radio broadcast, or Roswell, Aliens.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: GogglesPizanno on March 07, 2009, 10:44:56 PM
Spoiler

I'm going to fall into the "Squid would have been silly" camp. Not because the FX couldn't have pulled it off, I think they probably could have done a good job visually with it, but more from the standpoint that it would have come out of nowhere. Cloverfield, Godzilla, Independence Day... all those examples were of films where the central plot point and conceit of the movie was mysterious creatures causing havok. The plot of Watchmen had nothing at all like that... so when you put something like that in a movie (especially one where a lot of the viewers are going int thinking its Batman), you are going to lose a lot of people. The ending they went with kept a similar dramatic theme, made it tie into the plot of film that the audience had just watched, and I think gave some necessary reasoning for why the world wouldn't just call on Dr. Manhattan to fix things.

As was stated before, had this been done as a long form miniseries, then perhaps the squid would have worked as you would have had the freedom to stretch out some of the smaller plot points... but given it was all compressed down to 2 1/2 hours... I think it was decent editorial and creative choice.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: tommyboy on March 07, 2009, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 09:57:20 PM
Spoiler

You honestly think your average movie goer would find conjuring up a giant alien squid as the finale not absolutely ridiculous?

Spoiler
Godzilla, Cloverfield, Independance Day, Alien, Predator, Starship Troopers, etc etc etc etc etc.
The fact that it wasn't an actual alien in the story, but an SFX conjured up by the sorts used by film companies makes it less of a stretch than the above.
As for the credibility of the hoax; see Wells, Orson, War of the Worlds radio broadcast, or Roswell, Aliens.

Spoiler
That's comparing apples to oranges though. The above mentioned are all fine by the genre standards they fall in, but this a superhero movie that's supposed to be grounded in some sort of reality we can believe, and even relate to, of which a giant alien squid would contradict. I'm not saying it could never work for this film, but your average movie-going public wouldn't buy it.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Previsionary on March 07, 2009, 10:58:11 PM
I see a few complaints about the movie being 3 hours long (Titanic length?). Are you all going to skip the extended/director's cut which adds 20-30 more minutes to the run time?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: GogglesPizanno on March 07, 2009, 11:19:51 PM
Quote from: Previsionary on March 07, 2009, 10:58:11 PM
I see a few complaints about the movie being 3 hours long (Titanic length?). Are you all going to skip the extended/director's cut which adds 20-30 more minutes to the run time?

I'm not sure. I'll probably watch for the sake of curiosity.
I'm still trying to decide how i totally feel about it.

It reminds a lot of blade runner in that it was technically a very well done movie, but its gonna take me some time to really decide if I "liked" it. And I don't think 20-30 minutes of footage is going to change that... especially if they reinsert the Tales of the Black Freighter portion which i think is an interesting extra, but not something that needs to be included back in the film itself.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: tommyboy on March 07, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 10:50:05 PM
Quote from: tommyboy on March 07, 2009, 10:08:17 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 09:57:20 PM
Spoiler

You honestly think your average movie goer would find conjuring up a giant alien squid as the finale not absolutely ridiculous?

Spoiler
Godzilla, Cloverfield, Independance Day, Alien, Predator, Starship Troopers, etc etc etc etc etc.
The fact that it wasn't an actual alien in the story, but an SFX conjured up by the sorts used by film companies makes it less of a stretch than the above.
As for the credibility of the hoax; see Wells, Orson, War of the Worlds radio broadcast, or Roswell, Aliens.


Spoiler
That's comparing apples to oranges though. The above mentioned are all fine by the genre standards they fall in, but this a superhero movie that's supposed to be grounded in some sort of reality we can believe, and even relate to, of which a giant alien squid would contradict. I'm not saying it could never work for this film, but your average movie-going public wouldn't buy it.


Spoiler
Not to quibble endlessly, but
A)Moore and Gibbons have called Watchmen a work of science fiction rather than a super hero book, and I rather think they know whereof they speak, and
b) would it be un-gallant of me to point out that you spoke of what "your average movie goer" would accept, and I gave examples of films popular with "average movie goers", all of which had more ridiculous content than a fake alien monster(ie real alien monsters).
To now start bringing genre into it seems a bit needless, (and will probably only provoke a long and dull dissertation on my part where I prove that superheroes are firmly a subset of Science fiction).
We must agree to differ on this small, unimportant point. I believe that you are mistaken, but you could be right, and it seems the makers of the film felt similarly to you, and they may well know the audience better than I.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on March 08, 2009, 12:29:46 AM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 09:57:20 PM
Spoiler

You honestly think your average movie goer would find conjuring up a giant alien squid as the finale not absolutely ridiculous?

I've seen no evidence either way.  In the absence of evidence that proves they wouldn't accept it, my tendency is to believe that they wouldn't have a problem with it, yes.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on March 08, 2009, 12:31:05 AM
Quote from: Previsionary on March 07, 2009, 10:58:11 PM
I see a few complaints about the movie being 3 hours long (Titanic length?). Are you all going to skip the extended/director's cut which adds 20-30 more minutes to the run time?

Not sure if I'll see the extended cut in the theater or wait for the DVD which adds 'Tales from the Black Freighter' back in and pushes the running time to 4 hours+.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lgmss on March 08, 2009, 12:54:24 AM
Tales from the Black Freighter might be a short on the dvd, because it would be kind of hard to add it in, without adding in more of the side characters. Tales from the Black Freighter could even be it's own movie, but it would lose a lot of it's style, since it is a big part of Watchmen.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on March 08, 2009, 12:54:38 AM
OK, spoiler free review first:

When it works, it's brilliant; when it doesn't work it's only slightly off, and it works far, far more often than it doesn't. It is very, very good, both as a movie and an adaptation of the source material; some poor directorial/adaptation choices keep it out of the range of being great, though.

Ultimately, I wanted to love it and I couldn't. But I liked it very, very much, and for the most part, that's good enough.

Now on to the meat;

Minor Quibbles
______________
Spoiler

The old age/Nixon makeup was dreadful.  Seriously, you paid money to license that Apple commericial for about 15 seconds, and on makeup you skimp?
Rorschach refers to his mask at least twice.  Only jarring if you've read the novel, but still - sloppy.
As is Roy Chess working for Pyramid delivers directly - Adrian wouldn't be that dumb.  And there was no reason to change that scene in the bar- if it was for time I can think of several gratuitous gore shots that could've been cut in it's place.
Too much gore - you have more than enough violence and nudity to give you "street cred", some of the gore shots were just plain unnecessary.
I actually don't have a problem with making SS not smoke- it eliminates a couple of my favorite lines of dialog, but it's a subplot that can otherwise be cut without harming the movie- as long as you eliminate the scene where she triggers Archie's flamethrower.  The woman is not an idiot, and is not going to push a button clearly marked with flames for no good reason.
Matthew Goode's accent wandered all over the place.  Sometimes he had it, sometimes he didn't.
Too much exposition in places: the death of the Big Figure and Laurie's revelation about The Comedian being the most blatant examples.  Trust your audience to get it, Snyder; don't ruin it for us by shoving it right in our faces.
As mentioned before, Nite Owl's cheesy "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" completely undercut one of the most dramatic and powerful scenes in the movie.

That's it for now. Next, the two MAJOR problems I had with the movie and everything I really liked about it.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 01:08:19 AM
Quote from: tommyboy on March 07, 2009, 11:29:24 PM
Spoiler
Godzilla, Cloverfield, Independance Day, Alien, Predator, Starship Troopers, etc etc etc etc etc.
The fact that it wasn't an actual alien in the story, but an SFX conjured up by the sorts used by film companies makes it less of a stretch than the above.
As for the credibility of the hoax; see Wells, Orson, War of the Worlds radio broadcast, or Roswell, Aliens.

Spoiler
Not to quibble endlessly, but
A)Moore and Gibbons have called Watchmen a work of science fiction rather than a super hero book, and I rather think they know whereof they speak, and
b) would it be un-gallant of me to point out that you spoke of what "your average movie goer" would accept, and I gave examples of films popular with "average movie goers", all of which had more ridiculous content than a fake alien monster(ie real alien monsters).
To now start bringing genre into it seems a bit needless, (and will probably only provoke a long and dull dissertation on my part where I prove that superheroes are firmly a subset of Science fiction).
We must agree to differ on this small, unimportant point. I believe that you are mistaken, but you could be right, and it seems the makers of the film felt similarly to you, and they may well know the audience better than I.

Spoiler
Like Goggles pointed out, the movies you give as examples all focused on those things. The squid was never the focus of Watchmen (which is one of the reasons why Snyder changed it). Including it would have only further removed the audience from what was happening. At least in how the film is set up. Including Bubastis with no explanation or point whatsoever was bad enough. But I digress. I totally agree though that superheroes are a blend of fantasy and science fiction. But I really think including the squid would have completely thrown off the movie, especially for those expecting it to be more like Batman. And lord knows a giant squid wouldn't work in a Batman flick.

Enough of the squid though. I'm curious about the director's cut dvd, but only if it actually adds character development. If there was one thing I was truly disappointed in with this movie, it's that there was hardly any character development after almost 3 hours.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: The Hitman on March 08, 2009, 01:15:05 AM
Quote from: lgmss on March 08, 2009, 12:54:24 AM
Tales from the Black Freighter might be a short on the dvd, because it would be kind of hard to add it in, without adding in more of the side characters. Tales from the Black Freighter could even be it's own movie, but it would lose a lot of it's style, since it is a big part of Watchmen.

Tales of the Black Freighter is being released on March 24th as an animated feature- length movie. Kinda like Get Smart: Out of Control with Harold and Lloyd.

... What? It's my job to know these things.

And on the topic of the movie, I liked it. Went to the midnight show, got home at 4:00 am, but it was worth it. Like the book, it's gonna take multiple viewings, probably not until DVD, for me to really like it, but it was pretty good first time around.

Am am I the only person who thought...
Spoiler

Rorchach looked like the very ugly son of Chuck Norris and Clint Eastwood?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: captmorgan72 on March 08, 2009, 03:24:34 AM
I was shocked to see so many parents bringing there kids to see this. I just saw this tonight and had a family sitting in front of me. There was a dad and his maybe 8 year old son and maybe 13 year old daughter.
Spoiler
When the sex scenes started I noticed the teenage girl's mouth was hanging open and she was clearly seeing something she never had before. I looked at the boy and he looked very confused. Then the graphic violence was shown and the kids just stared. When Rorschach started splitting that guy's head with the cleaver the boy just said wow. I don't know but it just seemed wrong. Then when I left the theater I saw a huge crowd heading into the same theater I just came out of with a boat load of kids in tow.
I personally really liked the movie and want to see it again, but man, parents, leave the kids at home.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Ajax on March 08, 2009, 03:56:29 AM
Quote from: bredon7777 on March 08, 2009, 12:29:46 AM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 09:57:20 PM
Spoiler

You honestly think your average movie goer would find conjuring up a giant alien squid as the finale not absolutely ridiculous?

I've seen no evidence either way.  In the absence of evidence that proves they wouldn't accept it, my tendency is to believe that they wouldn't have a problem with it, yes.
Spoiler

It wouldn't have worked because there was no set up for the squid nor could they have done a set up given time constraints and what not. The movie was almost three hours and still felt rushed, imagine if they added the side story to explain the squid. So as far as the context of the movie goes, the changes they made, made sense and ultimately filled the same function. Why gripe? Last I checked the squid didn't have any special meaning behind it that would make people sit up and cheer at it's literary significance.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: bredon7777 on March 08, 2009, 04:27:15 AM
Quote from: Ajax on March 08, 2009, 03:56:29 AM
Quote from: bredon7777 on March 08, 2009, 12:29:46 AM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 07, 2009, 09:57:20 PM
Spoiler

You honestly think your average movie goer would find conjuring up a giant alien squid as the finale not absolutely ridiculous?

I've seen no evidence either way.  In the absence of evidence that proves they wouldn't accept it, my tendency is to believe that they wouldn't have a problem with it, yes.
Spoiler

It wouldn't have worked because there was no set up for the squid nor could they have done a set up given time constraints and what not. The movie was almost three hours and still felt rushed, imagine if they added the side story to explain the squid. So as far as the context of the movie goes, the changes they made, made sense and ultimately filled the same function. Why gripe? Last I checked the squid didn't have any special meaning behind it that would make people sit up and cheer at it's literary significance.

It's a personal hot-button for me.  If you want to put your own take on something, write your own characters and direct that; or license the characters and write something original.  If you are adapting something that has already been written you have one job and one job only: to be as faithful to the source material as possible without damaging the story.

Spoiler

No one has made a convincing case that doing the original ending would've damaged the story. Instead everyone is just being offhand and dismissive, going "Oh, the squid would never have worked" as if it is a self-evident fact that should be obvious to everyone.

Guess what?  It's not.  I've seen no evidence the squid would not have worked, and until someone presents that case, backed up with facts, in my opinion, they will always have done a disservice to the story by changing the ending like they did.

Did it work, as an ending, in context? Sure.  Could they have screwed it up worse?  Hell, yes.  Would the original ending have been far superior?  In my opinion, absolutely.  And I don't buy for a second the "no time for a setup"- it would've taken an extra 2 minutes  in Adrian's monologue, tops (and if they're that concerned with time, I could easily find 120 cuttable seconds before that point).
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: AncientSpirit on March 08, 2009, 04:55:14 AM
Saw it today and loved it.    While it did seem a little long, it didn't seem as long as it actually was.

What I loved most about this film was the exact same thing I loved most about the graphic novel.   It was unique compared to everything else out there.   Whenever I go to a Batman/Spider-Man/Superman/Iron Man/Incredibles/X-Men/Super X Girlfriend/Fantastic Four/Hancock movie, I know I'm in for a mega super battle in the last reel.  Not knocking them; I enjoy the hell out of them.   But this was a thinking persons movie in the same way the graphic novel was a thinking person's "comic." 

My wife, daughter and son-in-law went with me and none of them had heard of the Watchmen before this.   My wife was certain that Manhattan was going to reverse time and undo everything like Christopher Reeve did in Superman. 

This remains entirely its own mix:  murder mystery and morality tale ... superhero and science fiction ... pulp fiction and philosophy.

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Ajax on March 08, 2009, 04:59:43 AM
Spoiler
There was an entire subplot invovled with the squid, the missing scientist and what not. Plus several other things that lead to it not being something that just came out of left field. Even in your version with Adrian just going "oh and btw while you were all running around figuring this out I made a giant squid which will destroy several cities". The audience would just go "huh? Where did that come from?" If you want proof, then how bout Blake Snyder's "Save the Cat" book, which does a intro into the business of screenwriting. In it he makes the point that, in a movie the audience will only accept so many things, if you cross that line, you end up alienating or losing the audience. You can't set certain conditions up and then suddenly break the rules by going the complete opposite direction. Alan Moore had 300+ pages of comic, Snyder was lucky to get 2hrs and 40mins. Most studios try and limit screen time cause they know the longer a movie the less likely it is to be a big money maker. If you want proof look at the story behind Quiet Man and how every screenwriter will tell you that each genre has a sort of built in industry standard running time. was the movie perfect? No. Does it stand up to the original novel? no. I still agree with Gilliam, the Watchmen would best be served as a miniseries on a premium cable station like HBO/Showtime. There is just too much story/subtleties and what not that would be lost trying to fit it into a feature length format. Which ended up being the case, since in my opinion the movie basically told the story while ignoring most of the depth the comic had. Like reading a synopsis on wiki. Oh well, it was at least visually spot on.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 08, 2009, 07:05:08 AM
Saw it twice. I liked it the first time. Loved it the second time, mostly because I didn't have anxiety and unrealistically high hopes.

Spoiler
The opening fight and credits were absolutely amazing. Dr. Manhattan's CGI was breathtaking. The dream sequence and the scenes on Mars went over surprisingly well, and they more or less nailed the 'thermo-dynamic miracle' dialogue (One of my favorite parts from the book). A CGI character has never had me so transfixed, not to mention my eyes welling up with tears. The music throughout the film was great, and most of it was taken right from the book.

I liked the new ending better than the one in the book. Yeah, shocking. I think it works better, especially considering that Veidt attacked multiple cities around the world. Would I have liked to have seen the other cities being destroyed? Yeah, as I think it would have sold the ending a bit more. It still worked, regardless. I wish we could have gotten more Veidt, just because Goode portrayed him so well. Just the way his face was after his various lines in Karnak had me really impressed.

I liked that Dan and Adrian had a history, and that it culminated the way it did. I liked that Dan actually got to react to Rorschach's death. These were things that I felt the book could have benefited from.

So, I liked it, and while I felt that there were a few parts that might be been a bit better if they would have actually stuck to the book (The longer Laurie/Sally talk at the end, Jon walking across the water, etc.), they are mostly small and don't serve to change the story much at all.

I'm certainly looking forward to the director's cut. The extra time will definitely tie up/improve upon various parts.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on March 08, 2009, 07:07:54 AM
Did anyone else find some of the dialogue a bit weird? Like "Your hands, my PLEASURE"? What was the point of the that change?

Spoiler
And when Big Figure comments that he wants to smell Rorsharch "cooking" ... that comment only worked in context of the comic, where the henchmen was cutting through the lock with an oxy-torch to get at Rorscharch, and inadvertedly "cooking" his dead friend's body. In the film is was (to graphic effect) a power saw ... thus Big Figure's comment is totally non-sensical.

There were other annoying little changes/mistakes as well ... it's suprising considering the script had been polished by so many people.

Also, I may have missed this, but where did Laurie pick up the
Spoiler
gun she shot Ozy with? Someone on another board mentioned she got it from a prison guard but, if so, I must have missed it?

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Talavar on March 08, 2009, 07:41:15 AM
I'm a fan of the comic, and quite enjoyed the movie - it wasn't perfect, but it was way better than it could have been, and has some moments that are truly great.

My wife, who's never read the comic, enjoyed it as well, maybe moreso. 

The film isn't to superhero movies what the graphic novel was to superhero comics, but it's still a major accomplishment.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
There was one thing that happened both in the book and in the movie that I never understood or maybe missed the explanation somewhere, but
Spoiler
how could Ozy catch that bullet? Was it his costume? Or did he use some of that genetic engineering on himself?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: tommyboy on March 08, 2009, 05:49:23 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
There was one thing that happened both in the book and in the movie that I never understood or maybe missed the explanation somewhere, but
Spoiler
how could Ozy catch that bullet? Was it his costume? Or did he use some of that genetic engineering on himself?

Spoiler
I think the idea was that Oz was in the peak of human condition. His mind, speed, strength and reflexes allowed him to calculate the speed of the bullet, and to move his hand fast enough to absorb the kinetic energy whilst slowing it down. Supposedly some martial artists and magicians can do a similar "trick" in real life. Bear in mind he easily beat the snot out of the Comedian, and did the same to both Rorschach and Nite Owl when both were attacking him at once.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Tomato on March 08, 2009, 06:18:50 PM
Not to get too far off topic with this, but I haven't seen this movie yet, and I was just wondering...

Spoiler
Is the part where Rorscharch kills the dogs in the movie? I don't much care about human mutilation and all that, but I have a real weakness for animals, dogs in particular.

Either way I'm still planning to see it (I'm going with my dad this next week during my spring break), but I might go to the bathroom or some such when/if that scene is playing.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 06:28:51 PM
Quote from: tommyboy on March 08, 2009, 05:49:23 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
There was one thing that happened both in the book and in the movie that I never understood or maybe missed the explanation somewhere, but
Spoiler
how could Ozy catch that bullet? Was it his costume? Or did he use some of that genetic engineering on himself?

Spoiler
I think the idea was that Oz was in the peak of human condition. His mind, speed, strength and reflexes allowed him to calculate the speed of the bullet, and to move his hand fast enough to absorb the kinetic energy whilst slowing it down. Supposedly some martial artists and magicians can do a similar "trick" in real life. Bear in mind he easily beat the snot out of the Comedian, and did the same to both Rorschach and Nite Owl when both were attacking him at once.

Spoiler
I know that he was in tip-top shape, and was supposed to resemble basically an Olympic athlete in superhero form, but being able to catch a bullet? He's not Superman. This part bothered me in both the book and the movie and I just thought it had something to do with genetic engineering, or possibly his costume or something. I can buy him beating the crap out of Comedian, Nite Owl, and Rorschach because he was younger and in much better shape than them. But I find it hard to swallow that he can catch a bullet because he's at "the peak of the human condition." Is that really the only explanation?

Quote from: Tomato on March 08, 2009, 06:18:50 PM
Not to get too far off topic with this, but I haven't seen this movie yet, and I was just wondering...

Spoiler
Is the part where Rorscharch kills the dogs in the movie? I don't much care about human mutilation and all that, but I have a real weakness for animals, dogs in particular.

Either way I'm still planning to see it (I'm going with my dad this next week during my spring break), but I might go to the bathroom or some such when/if that scene is playing.

Yes, this part is in the film, but you don't see him do it directly, just shortly afterwards, if you catch my drift.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: thanoson on March 08, 2009, 11:11:48 PM
Just got back form taking my GF to the show. She loved it. I felt it was very true to the spirit of the book. The ending DID NOT HURT the film and it still came off strong in the end. I liked it.

BTW, Danny Bonaduce did a great job as Rorsharc.  :P
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: stumpy on March 08, 2009, 11:38:55 PM
Spoiler
Regarding the bullet catch, it didn't really bother me, and bad physics usually does. It's just not that far outside the realm of things we are already buying into, if we are believing that Veidt can take a 200+ pound guy and throw him across a room. If we knew that the bullet was a high velocity rifle round, then I would have more of an issue with it because those travel way, way faster than handgun slugs. But, on this case, it was a handgun and we don't even know that it was a high load cartridge. In addition, Veidt wasn't seeing and catching random bullets out of the air; Laurie had taken very deliberate aim with him watching, so he know where the bullet was going to go. Obviously, real humans can't do this, but Veidt was the supposed to be the fastest person on the planet which is enough for me to let it slide.

Frankly, I am far more annoyed by movie scenes where a character is shot and the bullet's impact tosses him backwards (often lifting him off the ground) and into walls, over desks, through windows, etc. Utter nonsense for many reasons, not the least of which being that the bullet adds no more (and somewhat less, in reality) momentum to the target than it does to the shooter. Anyone who has fired a gun knows that, even with decent-sized rifle and shotgun shells, the most that one has to do is take a step back to keep one's feet. There is no chance of being blown back through the air.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on March 08, 2009, 11:54:39 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 06:28:51 PM
Quote from: tommyboy on March 08, 2009, 05:49:23 PM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
There was one thing that happened both in the book and in the movie that I never understood or maybe missed the explanation somewhere, but
Spoiler
how could Ozy catch that bullet? Was it his costume? Or did he use some of that genetic engineering on himself?

Spoiler
I think the idea was that Oz was in the peak of human condition. His mind, speed, strength and reflexes allowed him to calculate the speed of the bullet, and to move his hand fast enough to absorb the kinetic energy whilst slowing it down. Supposedly some martial artists and magicians can do a similar "trick" in real life. Bear in mind he easily beat the snot out of the Comedian, and did the same to both Rorschach and Nite Owl when both were attacking him at once.


Spoiler
I know that he was in tip-top shape, and was supposed to resemble basically an Olympic athlete in superhero form, but being able to catch a bullet? He's not Superman. This part bothered me in both the book and the movie and I just thought it had something to do with genetic engineering, or possibly his costume or something. I can buy him beating the crap out of Comedian, Nite Owl, and Rorschach because he was younger and in much better shape than them. But I find it hard to swallow that he can catch a bullet because he's at "the peak of the human condition." Is that really the only explanation?

Well, the guy also has "super intelligence"... essentially Watchmen has two genuine "superhuman" characters: Dr Manhattan and Ozymandias. Ozy's power just isn't as flashy as Dr Manhattan's.

I might add, the "bullet catch" is far less shocking in the film, as ALL the heroes are portayed as uber-ninjas, with Veidt seemingly slightly more uber than the rest of them.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Podmark on March 09, 2009, 12:40:58 AM
Saw it on Saturday. Overall I really liked it.

Spoiler
For the most part it was pretty spot on, and did a good job of recreating the story.
Fights scenes were all longer but I'm good with that, but some of them did go on too long. I also didn't like the extra gore in the alley fight, too much and that scene didn't need that.
I'd have preferred the original ending but I'm ok with the one they used.

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Panther_Gunn on March 09, 2009, 12:54:01 AM
Quote from: thanoson on March 08, 2009, 11:11:48 PMBTW, Danny Bonaduce did a great job as Rorsharc.  :P

While he might have been a good casting choice if he hadn't bulked up (Rorshac was supposed to be scrawny & wiry), I think the actual actor, Jackie Earle Haley (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0355097/) (aka Kelly Leak from the original Bad News Bears) did an excellent job, and Danny was probably the only other one that could have beaten him for intense psycho takes.  ;)
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on March 09, 2009, 01:47:35 AM
I'm mad they didn't cast carrot top

Though he is too tall.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: captmorgan72 on March 09, 2009, 03:24:13 AM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
There was one thing that happened both in the book and in the movie that I never understood or maybe missed the explanation somewhere, but
Spoiler
how could Ozy catch that bullet? Was it his costume? Or did he use some of that genetic engineering on himself?

Spoiler
If you notice when Ozy looks down at his hand the bullet is sort of lodged in his glove and he pulls it out. This tells me that his costume is bullet proof. Also notice that he looked like he was doing some mental calculations when Laurie was aiming the gun at him. Seems to me that he calculated the trajectory of the bullet and used his superior reflexes to "catch" the bullet. 
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: MJB on March 09, 2009, 03:26:56 AM
Went to see this on Saturday with my Brother, his fiance and Ms_MJB. I was the only one in the group that had read the original comic series (in any form). We all loved it. A very satisfying film. Not for the kiddies though. Leave them at home like we did if you want to see this film.

-MJB
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BentonGrey on March 09, 2009, 03:37:34 AM
Quote from: captmorgan72 on March 09, 2009, 03:24:13 AM
Quote from: TheMarvell on March 08, 2009, 05:38:43 PM
There was one thing that happened both in the book and in the movie that I never understood or maybe missed the explanation somewhere, but
Spoiler
how could Ozy catch that bullet? Was it his costume? Or did he use some of that genetic engineering on himself?

Spoiler
If you notice when Ozy looks down at his hand the bullet is sort of lodged in his glove and he pulls it out. This tells me that his costume is bullet proof. Also notice that he looked like he was doing some mental calculations when Laurie was aiming the gun at him. Seems to me that he calculated the trajectory of the bullet and used his superior reflexes to "catch" the bullet. 

In the book he was bleeding, so he actually managed to do it, but only barely.  It seemed he was about as surprised as everyone else.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: detourne_me on March 09, 2009, 04:48:45 AM
RE: Ozymandias
Spoiler
Essentially i look at Ozy as the same standpoint that Lex Luthor has come to represent in recent years.  He is the human that will truly save humanity, instead of relying upon a superhuman to do so.
Now since he is a human he is not immune to sins, like pride, hubris, murder etc.
He makes mistakes but he can bring humanity together, it's a much stronger faith in humankind than relying upon some god.

now the movie fails because it doesn't set up Adrian enough to be the man that saves humanity,  he just comes across as a pompous jerk. There is his talk of free energy, and that does get realized at the end of the movie,  so i imagine this infers the modern crises we are facing, not a threat from nuclear war, but a threat of overconsumption and environmental implosion.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 09, 2009, 05:00:41 AM
Spoiler
I guess I'm just finding it really hard to swallow the whole "Adrian is super intelligent and can therefore calculate the exact trajectory of a bullet which somehow makes him physically capable of catching a bullet" explanation. I'm glad he was wearing gloves in the movie since that gives much more plausibility (you can speculate that they're bulletproof), but he's clearly not wearing gloves in the book. In fact he bleeds quite a bit from the impact. So how does being very intelligent make you more immune to a gunshot? I just don't understand how he's more "superhuman" than the others (sans Manhattan), not counting the "uber-ninja-ness" of the movie. I know with everything else going on in the story, this minor part really shouldn't matter, but it just seems odd there's no believable explanation other than what's been said.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 09, 2009, 05:56:54 AM
I think that there's always been an element of mystery to Adrian and his abilities. For all we know (even in the book), he might be a bit of a superhuman himself. I'm glad that they didn't try to explain away the mystery of it in the movie. As for him being totally pompous, I don't know. He did make an appearance at the funeral, and he was pretty endearing when he was speaking with Dan early on in the movie. Sure, he was sticking up for himself when those suits started harassing him about his past, but that's understandable. It's not until the end that he reveals his true intentions, but even then, he meant well with his actions, explaining that the current ways of the world haven't achieved anything, and that "This is as much your victory as it is mine" (when speaking to Jon). I've always been sympathetic to Adrian, just because he's flawed (and kind of crazy) but he does truly mean well.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 06:52:58 AM
Well, just came back from seeing the movie, and all things considered, I have to say that I like it quite a bit.

Granted, I'd already accepted the fact that the graphic novel, as is, would have been difficult to translate into a two and a half hour film (or a film of any length, for that matter). Watchmen, as a piece of sequential art, is just too embedded in the medium of comics to survive the transition to film unscathed. A reasonable loss of fidelity is to be expected. I'd already conceded, prior to going to the film, that the underlying literary structure that was the main draw of the graphic novel for me, would in all probability be lost. So with all those things going against it, I think the filmmakers fared pretty well.

Spoilerage follows:

Spoiler

Things I didn't like:

- Nite Owl and Silk Spectre's supreme fighting skills: One of the major themes of the graphic novel is how even just a single super-powered being existing in the real world (in this case, Dr. Manhattan) could shift the balance of the Cold War. And while it was made clear in the film's script that Dr. Manhattan is the only super-powered being in the movie's world (with Ozymandias being the closest thing to a "peak human" hero the world has seen), Nite Owl and Silk Spectre come off as virtuallly super-powerful fighting machines in their fight scenes. I know the action has to be kept brisk to keep the non-comics fan interested in the film, but I think they could have done it without undermining said theme.

- Matthew Goode's performance: One of the big surprises in the graphic novel is the revelation that Ozymandias is the big baddie (or as close to a supervillain one can get in Watchmen),  but it seems to me that a viewer who hadn't read the book would see that particular plot twist being telegraphed by Matthew Goode's performance. He seemed smarmy, sleazy, and just plain "supervillain-y" even in his first appearance (when his character should be gaining the viewer's trust), and the designers' choice of costume for him (the dark tones) didn't help keep the reveal a surprise either.

Things I particularly liked:
- Jackie Earle Haley's performance: Great performance as Rorschach. A little hammy at certain points, but I think he really pulled the character off. I just checked out his filmography prior to Watchmen and he's been in some pretty horrible films (I've seen a few of them). Hopefully, this performance helps him get a better pick of future roles.

- Jeffrey Dean Morgan's performance: Not as good as Haley's, but it's almost right up there.

Changes from the graphic novel that I (surprisingly) didn't mind:
- Doc Manhattan being the threat with which Ozymandias tricks the US and USSR into declaring a truce: Considering how integral the "fake giant squid with a vagina eyeball" thing is to the graphic novel, I'm surprised that I didn't mind its excision from the film. Then again, I always considered that one of the weaker points of the graphic novel's story. In this case, I guess, one deus ex machina is as good as any other.

Stuff I found a tad distracting:
- The soundtrack: I would normally like the film's soundtrack (since it features some pretty good songs), but either the mixing was bad in the theatre I went to, or there was just too much focus on some of the selected songs playing in the background.

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: detourne_me on March 09, 2009, 07:10:20 AM
Finally someone else who disliked the soundtrack!!!!
watching it in IMAX, it was just entirely to loud and jarring when a song came on.  Especially the hendrix.
But the Dylan song in the opening was a stroke of genius.  i'd love to watch that opening as a seperate music video in high def.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 08:09:11 AM
Quote from: detourne_me on March 09, 2009, 07:10:20 AM
watching it in IMAX, it was just entirely to loud and jarring when a song came on.  Especially the hendrix.

I know what you mean. Hendrix's "All Along The Watchtower" is probably my favourite cover song of all time, but they had the music entirely too loud in the "flight to Karnak" sequence. It was so prominent that I assumed that Nite Owl had the song playing inside his ship, and I went "oh, cool, in this version, he's got a cassette player installed in Archimedes" but when the song faded away as the scene progressed, I realized that it was "background" music that was playing so loud relative to the other sounds in the film that it became part of the "foreground" audio (and thus, my assuming that it was an organic part of the scene, when it in fact, wasn't).

Quote from: detourne_me on March 09, 2009, 07:10:20 AMBut the Dylan song in the opening was a stroke of genius.  i'd love to watch that opening as a seperate music video in high def.

I'll gladly splice the video when the DVD comes out. I thought the opening was one of the best parts of the film, and was an excellent way to get around the exposition needed to ground the viewer in the film's universe (again, I don't know how useful it was in introducing the world of Watchmen to people who haven't read the book, but I thought it did a good job of succintly summing up the alternative world history leading up to the events in the movie).
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: C4 on March 09, 2009, 09:21:07 AM
Went to see it with my Girlfriend. I liked it and read the novel before. She slept almost halfway into it and was bored out of her skull.

It looked like pretty much everyone who was not familiar with the novel was bored in the theatre as far as I could tell. And on opening night there was 25 people in the threatre.

I really did not like the soundtrack. I was introduced to this amazing atmosphere with the music of the promo vid and I got boring music in the movie. I only liked the Halleluja music on the nite owl and laurie part.

Spoiler
Also preferred blaming Doc Manhattan instead of alien squid.

really did not like Rorschach killing the guy with the clever opposed to giving him a saw in the novel.


My favourite was the way Doc Manhattan was done. his look and fx etc. Though his man part could have been hidden more maybe.

Also enjoyed how Rorschash's mask moved in real time.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 09:39:26 AM
I think the way I can sum up my experience with the film is that as a huge fan of the book, on an emotional and visceral level, I was just thrilled that a somewhat decent Watchmen movie got made. My opinion might change after repeat viewings once the DVD comes out, but all in all, I think it was an entertaining look at the Watchmen story as filtered through director Zack Snyder's sensibilities (I don't agree with many of his directorial and storytelling choices, but I appreciate his efforts nonetheless... as I've mentioned before, the process of adapting the particular source material to film, I think, is just fraught with so many potential pitfalls).
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on March 09, 2009, 11:45:48 AM
Spoiler
Stuff I forgot: Ozymandias was terrible. And it wasn't just his stupid costume, stupid hair, bad acting. They played ominous music in every scene he was in, which made me laugh. That was too ridiculous, I think anyone who didn't know he was the "villain" (which he certainly did seem completely like in the movie) probably picked up on it. Who made that decision?
The soundtrack was bad too. I think that sex scene was probably the stupidest part in the movie especially with the loud soundtrack. I did like the part at the beginning though I don't like Bob Dylan music. The rest was just bad, and as the end credits came up, I think the worst possible jarring out of the movie in which I was definitely not immersed but some people may have been was My Chemical Romance. And I'll even admit that they're one of my favorite bands (but that song isn't too good to begin with). I left immediately so I didn't get to hear First We Take Manhattan which is Leonard Cohen's best song by far and is kinda relevant at first but seems more like it was added as a joke. Ride of the Valkyries in Vietnam and 99 Luftballoons were stupid enough to make me go "WTF?" at a time that I was trying like the movie.
Did I mention the movie was too long and was boring at the beginning? Why so long? Why cut so many more important scenes from toward the end of the movie to have word-for-word scenes at the beginning? Why make it so faithful to the book to change the ending?
I would've actually liked it better if it were a total reworking of the characters as Zack Snyder thought they should be: Superheroes who beat the crap out of people violently nonstop, he could have added all the sex scenes and stuff that he wanted, made the costumes black leather or whatever, and Ozymandias could have been a super villain that I would love to hate instead of hate to hate. Rorschach could have stayed exactly the same and there could have been loads of bullet time and people getting shot and flying into walls. I really only liked it for the fight scenes and Rorschach which tells me it was a bad adaptation. The length and boredom I felt for most of it tells me it was a bad movie. I just think it was a bad idea.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: detourne_me on March 09, 2009, 12:08:55 PM
Spoiler
I guess I'll whine a bit more, before i go to watch it again later tonight. i wasn't too pleased with Dan's character on first viewing,  he was too much of a loser in the "trying to relive glory days" way, and not enough of a loser in the "i'm a huge nerd and uncomfortable in my own skin" way.
Him watching Rorshach die, then "NOOOOOO!" and little spaz at the end.... ugh,  at least i'm glad Zach Snyder did away with the proposed ending of nite owl killing adrian.
Now, lets see how i'll like the movie on second viewing! hahahah (of course if i'm watching it in theatres twice, i can't hate it that much right? ;)
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: phantom stranger on March 09, 2009, 12:36:53 PM
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 09, 2009, 05:56:54 AM
I think that there's always been an element of mystery to Adrian and his abilities. For all we know (even in the book), he might be a bit of a superhuman himself. I'm glad that they didn't try to explain away the mystery of it in the movie. As for him being totally pompous, I don't know. He did make an appearance at the funeral, and he was pretty endearing when he was speaking with Dan early on in the movie. Sure, he was sticking up for himself when those suits started harassing him about his past, but that's understandable. It's not until the end that he reveals his true intentions, but even then, he meant well with his actions, explaining that the current ways of the world haven't achieved anything, and that "This is as much your victory as it is mine" (when speaking to Jon). I've always been sympathetic to Adrian, just because he's flawed (and kind of crazy) but he does truly mean well.

In the original Watchmen series Adrian's 'powers' were never clearly stated ,however as he was based on Peter Cannon Thunderbolt I think it is reasonable to assume that he shares the same powers and characteristics .



This is from the International Superheroes website (my emphasis)

QuoteAfter attaining the highest degree of mental and physical perfection,he was entrusted with the knowledge of the ancient scrolls ,that bore the secret writings of past generations of wise men !From them he learned concentration, mind over matter the art of activating and harnessing the unused portion of the brain,that made seemingly fantastic feats possible   

http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/c/charthun.htm

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: tommyboy on March 09, 2009, 01:09:56 PM
I haven't seen the film, so my "belief" in the bullet-catch is solely based on the book.
Spoiler

Before it happens, when Nite-Owl asks Ozy about the staged assasination:
Dreiberg; "What if he'd shot you first, instead of your secretary?",
Veidt smiles and answers; "I suppose I'd have had to catch the bullet, wouldn't I?"
Dreiberg; "You..? Nahh come on. That's completely... You couldn't really do that?"
Veidt smiles silently.
So it's something Veidt has considered, and planned for.

Then, when Laurie shoots him, he starts to leap towards her, making a "martial arts" type noise. These are used to focus chi and power.
After he gets back up he says; "There. Something else I wasn't sure would work."
It's not a spur of the moment thing, it's a move he has planned and maybe practiced for to some extent.
Do I believe that in real life a normal human could catch a bullet aimed at them? I'm extremely dubious about that, but willing to believe it if I ever see it. Within the context of the book, I believe Veidt could do it. Not again and again. Maybe even only once with some luck. But I believe it that once. Same way I believe Osterman can rebuild himself after being disintegrated, or teleport stuff. I suspend disbelief in order to enjoy superhero stuff.
Of course, an easier thing to believe would have been kevlar body armour under the tunic...I'm just sayin'...
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
My opinions, having seen it last night:

Cons
- The extra violence was unecesary. I love the director but I think his mind could not process the idea that the movie had a lot of sex and swearing yet only a moderate number of violent scenes.
- Also was not fond of watching Night Owl and Silk Spectre kill and maim goons. Isint that what makes Rorschack so awful?
- The music was too loud and too obvious.
- I love it when sex actually looks like sex (see The Wire) but the sex scene aboard Archie was painful to watch, I keep hearing that it was "played that way for laughts" but the entire audience was dead silent.

Pros
- Very nicely compressed, edited and adapted. Exactly what an adapatation should be, keep what is good and change the things that dont work in the theater such as the original "global threat" at the end.
- Good performances from actual actors instead of stars.
- Excellent visual effects, camera work and direction.
- The added intro sequence with the heroes through the ages was brilliant.
- They did not shy away from presenting where our country would be had certain people gotten their way, in other words in a conservative one party dictatorship.
- The period celebs where great, I especially loved seeing Henry Kissinger and even David Bowie.
- Comedian was great, in the comic I just never got  him but on screen he was a great bipolar monster.
- Dr. Manhattan is great, very much the ultimate expression of purely pragmatic, scientific thought and how it takes nothing of human nature into account.


Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 03:46:44 PM
Quote from: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
- Also was not fond of watching Night Owl and Silk Spectre kill and maim goons. Isint that what makes Rorschack so awful?

Excellent point

Quote from: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
- I love it when sex actually looks like sex (see The Wire) but the sex scene aboard Archie was painful to watch, I keep hearing that it was "played that way for laughts" but the entire audience was dead silent.

Could have been worse. The undersexed fanboy sitting beside you could have been breathing way too hard and getting too heavily into that scene  :lol:

Quote from: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 02:43:26 PM
- The period celebs where great, I especially loved seeing Henry Kissinger and even David Bowie.

Oh man, I loved Lee Iacocca's "cameo" as the leader of the conglomerate going up against Ozymandias. I thought it was hilarious. Although I guess he was one of the more obscure 1980s period "celebrities" featured in the film.

Also, I was surprised at the maturity of the audience I saw the movie with. I was worried that I'd have to spend most of the movie tuning out loud juvenile and/or drunken and/or stoned comments about Dr. Manhattan's electric blue junk being displayed in panoramic widescreen, but outside of a single peep of "man, if I had his powers, I would've made mine bigger," that earned a few chuckles, they were pretty quiet throughout the movie. So thank you for your restraint, anonymous audience at the Empire Studio 12 Guildford 4:30 PM Watchmen screening. 
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
Ah, the wang of Dr Manhattan. The best moment it produced was after the movie, when my friends girlfriend said that she found it very tasteful.

Hehe.

Edit: wanted to add a question:

Spoiler
Was the movie really obvious? Having seen it I knew what was going to happen, but I was watching it with my own girlfriend who guessed pretty much everything. Within like 10 minutes she was like "Wow, is she the comedians daughter?". She does this with every movie (It creeps me out sometimes), but I would of thought the big reveals in Watchmen where a little bit more hidden than what you see in other films. Like also pretty much right off the bat she figured that Ozzy was behind everything...
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 05:20:43 PM
Quote from: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
Ah, the wang of Dr Manhattan.

I think the proper term is "Dong Manhattan"

Quote from: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
Edit: wanted to add a question:

Spoiler
Was the movie really obvious? Having seen it I knew what was going to happen, but I was watching it with my own girlfriend who guessed pretty much everything. Within like 10 minutes she was like "Wow, is she the comedians daughter?". She does this with every movie (It creeps me out sometimes), but I would of thought the big reveals in Watchmen where a little bit more hidden than what you see in other films. Like also pretty much right off the bat she figured that Ozzy was behind everything...

As I mentioned in a prior post, I think Matthew Goode's portrayal of Ozymandias very clearly telegraphs his ultimate role in the film, and strangely enough, I think everything from the direction to the costume design sort of alluded to it. Thing is, I can't "un-read" the book in my mind so I don't know if I'm just overlaying my expectations onto his performance and the film's direction and design. I'd have to hear the opinions of more people who've seen the film but haven't read the graphic novel to see if my observation rings true with them as well.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Ares_God_of_War on March 09, 2009, 05:27:38 PM
I still have never read the comic and yes he seemed like the type of hero who becomes a villian due to arogance throughout the whole thing. Also I thought he did have superpowers. So in the end only Dr. Manhattan does none of the others have any super powers? Especially since they were talking about the force needed to throw him through that specific type of window.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: kaflinkle on March 09, 2009, 06:39:26 PM
I saw it last weekend and was a bit disappointed. I felt the film was rather flat and lacked the soul and heart of the novel.

I didn't feel it worked as a film at all or rather it may have done under a different director.

-The violence was too graphic and unecessary
-I didn't like the ending at all and one of the important parts of the book, the bit where Jon tells Veidt that 'nothing ever ends' was completely butchered and Spectre ended up paraphrasing Jon and saying it to Dan!!!??? Why?

There's other points as well but they were cosmetic or not worth mentioning.

It's a shame as I have been looking forward to a Watchmen movie for a very long time. Not a bad film by any stretch but not brilliant either. Maybe my expectations were too high. Probably a bit spoilt as well as the previous film I watched was The Wrestler and that was fantastic.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: thanoson on March 09, 2009, 07:16:48 PM
I actually enjoyed this better than Dark Knight. Dark was good, but it was a really good Die Hard film. This felt like an adult super hero movie. Bones breaking and what not? This is the kinda stuff that happens to people when they attack superior fighters. There are many self defence styles that break bones and make it so that you never want to try that again.

The thing about the bullet. Dan said right before they enterd that Ozy thought he could catch a bullet because he was that fast.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 07:33:15 PM
Yeah, in the comic Ozzy seems a little more amazed, like "I always thought it was possible but I did not know it could be done until now". I guess catching the bullet is a great metaphor for this movie... it is painful at times but who would of thought it could be done.    ^_^

About the violence I loved the prison scene, it was a well choreographed and exciting kung fu battle. But that alley scene felt lifted from an entirely different movie, not just that bones break but the degree to which he worships the violence, with broken bones poking through skin in slow motion. I watch plenty of horror movies so I'm ok with gore but here it was way out of place. Like I said, he was wondering how a movie with dongs and swears did not have extreme graphic violence.

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Panther_Gunn on March 09, 2009, 07:34:46 PM
Quote from: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 05:20:43 PM
Quote from: lugaru on March 09, 2009, 04:31:23 PM
Ah, the wang of Dr Manhattan.

I think the proper term is "Dong Manhattan"

There's an excellent viewpoint on today's Shortpacked comic. (no link due to occasional offensive language on the site)
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Talavar on March 09, 2009, 09:43:08 PM
I find it interesting the number of people - and there have been several in the thread already - who have the superpower of Audience Sense: the ability to know how everyone else in a theatre is reacting to a film.  Unless you and the whole theatre went and had a film discussion group afterwards, I'm calling shenanigans on that.

If you didn't like a film, that's fine, but saying "I didn't like it, and neither did anyone else in the theatre" doesn't necessarily make your point of view the right one, and doesn't add any strength to your argument.

Same deal with saying the theatre you were in was mostly empty, implying that hardly anyone went to the film.  Even if it were true, it wouldn't necessarily mean it was a bad film, but it's pretty easy to disprove.  Watchmen made 55 million dollars over the weekend, with a per screen average of $15 000.  That's solid business for any movie, but when you consider it was an R-rated, nearly 3 hour movie opening in March, it did pretty well financially.

Does that make my opinion, that it was a pretty good film, the correct one?  No, but then I didn't say along with my opinion that the theatre was packed and everyone loved it.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 09:44:54 PM
Quote from: Ares_God_of_War on March 09, 2009, 05:27:38 PM
I still have never read the comic and yes he seemed like the type of hero who becomes a villian due to arogance throughout the whole thing.

Ah, finally, somebody who hasn't read the book but seen the movie. The viewer whose opinions I've been looking for to validate (or not) my somewhat minor quibbles with the film (since everyone I saw the film with had read the book).

Quote from: Ares_God_of_War on March 09, 2009, 05:27:38 PMAlso I thought he did have superpowers. So in the end only Dr. Manhattan does none of the others have any super powers? Especially since they were talking about the force needed to throw him through that specific type of window

See, in the book, not only is Ozymandias supposed to be the world's smartest man, he's also perhaps the peak physical specimen. He's trained for most of his life in martial arts and gymnastics, something that was, I think, glossed over in the film's dialogue. As I mentioned, he's probably the closest thing to a superpowered being in Watchmen's universe next to Dr. Manhattan due to his combination of genius intellect and Olympic-level physical conditioning.

Ozymandias' catching the bullet however, at least in the graphic novel, was played up as a most fortuitious thing: It's something that surprises even Ozymandias, not to mention Nite Owl and company... it's something they've suspected he could do by virtue of all his training, but it's not something that is supposed to be a repeatable feat in the context of his natural abilities.

Unfortunately, the hyper-stylized fight scenes did give off the impression (to me and to you, at least) that every one of the "Watchmen" (they never called themselves that in the book) had heightened physical abilities. In truth, apart from Doc Manhattan, Ozymandias, and the Comedian (a trained spook/covert operative), only Rorschach could be argued to be anything but an average physical specimen (and even Rorschach probably derives his physical abilities from the unhinged sociopath's dedication to exercise and inurement to pain and physical hardship, and not from any actual physiologic advantage over normal humans).

Quote from: tommyboy on March 09, 2009, 01:09:56 PM
I haven't seen the film, so my "belief" in the bullet-catch is solely based on the book.

While the veracity of the claim can be disputed, it's been documented that a human can calculate the trajectory of a bullet and respond evasively to its flight. Lieutenant Hiroo Onoda (the last Japanese officer to surrender after World War II ended, he spent the next 29 years after Japan's defeat in WWII hiding out and acting as a one man guerilla army in the jungles of the Philippines) could allegedly dodge semiautomatic rifle fire on occasion (the story was that he only ventured out at dusk, when the light from the setting sun would be more likely to reflect off of the jacketed bullets and give him a visual cue as to their trajectory).
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: zuludelta on March 09, 2009, 09:57:49 PM
Quote from: Talavar on March 09, 2009, 09:43:08 PMWatchmen made 55 million dollars over the weekend, with a per screen average of $15 000.  That's solid business for any movie, but when you consider it was an R-rated, nearly 3 hour movie opening in March, it did pretty well financially.

Yeah, the R-rating is typically considered the "kiss of box-office death" these days, especially when one considers the number of theaters in North America that refuse to play R-rated films or will only play them for a limited run.

Funnily enough, here in BC, I think the film is rated 18A (I don't think there's an American equivalent to that rating), meaning minors can watch it as long as they're accompanied by an adult: I got carded at the entrance (happens a lot, as I'm "Asian short" and I guess I look, dress, and talk like I just stepped out of a particularly bad inner city high school), and while I was reaching for my driver's licence, the lady at the door waved me in anyway when she saw that I was with my older brother (who'd already flashed his ID). There were also a number of "comic book dads" bringing in their tween and teen kids to see the film in the theatre I went to.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 10, 2009, 02:34:24 AM
I'm a die-hard fan of the book, and I just can't bring myself to understand much of the pointless griping about changes to the film, etc.

I can say without much reservation that I loved the movie. Speaking with non-fans, I found that they would have liked to have known how Rorschach got his mask and not too much else. Maybe Bubastis, but based on one of the uninitiated I spoke with, they just assumed Adrian had bought or created her. They didn't suspect that he was the villain, either.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: stumpy on March 10, 2009, 05:53:54 AM
Another take on Watchmen (http://www.duggback.com/movies/Peanuts_Watchmen_PIC/)

Okay, we all have our own interpretations of the movie, but can we at least agree that this is awesome?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Gremlin on March 10, 2009, 06:16:47 AM
Quote from: stumpy on March 10, 2009, 05:53:54 AM
Another take on Watchmen (http://www.duggback.com/movies/Peanuts_Watchmen_PIC/)

Okay, we all have our own interpretations of the movie, but can we at least agree that this is awesome?

Yes. Yes we can.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: The Enigma on March 10, 2009, 06:36:41 PM
I finally saw it last night in a somewhat empty theatre. For the first half I was just so enthralled, I loved every second. It was almost exactly what I'd dreamed since reading the book. Around the scenes in the prison, the cracks started to show. I was just so happy with the songs (cheesy and cliche, just like the idea of a comic and what Moore was semi-parodying in his work) and the style. Seeing minor things like the Gunga Diner come to life in front of me was amazing not to mention the extremely realistic work done to recreate Dr. Manhattan and especially Rorschach's mask. I might have to go and see it again - something I can't afford to do but am very tempted to regardless.
It was obviously not perfect, for a whole bunch of reasons, but I didn't care - which is something pretty major in itself considering every single person I know expected me to complain throughout the whole thing. The obsessive attention to detail (which I can understand being very offputting for those who haven't read the graphic novel) was what I wanted and what I got and I'm still riding the wave of excitement that arrived with the opening credit sequence.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Mr. Hamrick on March 10, 2009, 07:33:06 PM
I actually expected a lot more fan boy complaints.   :D
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on March 11, 2009, 01:16:57 AM
Although I thought the bad (some bad acting, OTT fight scenes, pointless gore) outweighed the good in this film, I'm actually looking forward to the super-duper delux version with the extra hour of material (extended scenes, Black Freighter comic), and the Under The Hood "documentary".

My biggest gripe was cutting out character development and Moore's dialogue to concentrate on extended action scenes (which I'm 99% sure was a concession to the studio in order to get the film made), and I think the bells-and-whistles edition will mostly eliminate that gripe.

It's weird that people are saying this film has drawn disappointing box-office results. I mean, how many people did they expect to go and see a nearly three-hour long film featuring superheroes most people have never heard of, featuring a relatively unknown cast?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 11, 2009, 06:31:14 AM
Quote from: Jakew on March 11, 2009, 01:16:57 AM
Although I thought the bad (some bad acting, OTT fight scenes, pointless gore) outweighed the good in this film, I'm actually looking forward to the super-duper delux version with the extra hour of material (extended scenes, Black Freighter comic), and the Under The Hood "documentary".

My biggest gripe was cutting out character development and Moore's dialogue to concentrate on extended action scenes (which I'm 99% sure was a concession to the studio in order to get the film made), and I think the bells-and-whistles edition will mostly eliminate that gripe.

It's weird that people are saying this film has drawn disappointing box-office results. I mean, how many people did they expect to go and see a nearly three-hour long film featuring superheroes most people have never heard of, featuring a relatively unknown cast?

Yeah, and it still made like 60 million in spite of those reasons, and in March of all months. I was pretty surprised.

I, like you, am excited for the DC which I think comes out in July. There are scenes in it with Laurie discussing Jon's disappearance, more Rorschach, and more Manhattan on Mars, among other things. I'm excited.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: detourne_me on March 11, 2009, 07:00:24 AM
Quote from: Jakew on March 11, 2009, 01:16:57 AM
It's weird that people are saying this film has drawn disappointing box-office results. I mean, how many people did they expect to go and see a nearly three-hour long film featuring superheroes most people have never heard of, featuring a relatively unknown cast?
not to mention being rated R.  With much controversy too.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: cripp12 on March 11, 2009, 09:21:58 PM
and that whole recession thing.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: JeyNyce on March 11, 2009, 09:24:05 PM
A friend/ co-worker saw it and he said it was good, but every other scene they show Doc Manhattan.....ALL OF Doc Manhattan.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: stumpy on March 11, 2009, 09:41:51 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on March 11, 2009, 09:24:05 PMA friend/ co-worker saw it and he said it was good, but every other scene they show Doc Manhattan.....ALL OF Doc Manhattan.

Uh huh. At some point in the movie, I realized that Doc Manhattan has probably met Nixon on several occasions and I wondered if he suited up those times. I had to laugh because there's an episode of Futurama ("War Is The H Word") where Nixon runs into Zapp Brannigan standing around al fresco after a shower. He cringes and says, "Brannigan! My God, cover yourself! I didn't live a thousand years and travel a quadrillion miles to look at another man's gizmo!"  :lol:
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Jakew on March 11, 2009, 11:44:37 PM
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 11, 2009, 06:31:14 AM
Quote from: Jakew on March 11, 2009, 01:16:57 AM
Although I thought the bad (some bad acting, OTT fight scenes, pointless gore) outweighed the good in this film, I'm actually looking forward to the super-duper delux version with the extra hour of material (extended scenes, Black Freighter comic), and the Under The Hood "documentary".

My biggest gripe was cutting out character development and Moore's dialogue to concentrate on extended action scenes (which I'm 99% sure was a concession to the studio in order to get the film made), and I think the bells-and-whistles edition will mostly eliminate that gripe.

It's weird that people are saying this film has drawn disappointing box-office results. I mean, how many people did they expect to go and see a nearly three-hour long film featuring superheroes most people have never heard of, featuring a relatively unknown cast?

Yeah, and it still made like 60 million in spite of those reasons, and in March of all months. I was pretty surprised.

I, like you, am excited for the DC which I think comes out in July. There are scenes in it with Laurie discussing Jon's disappearance, more Rorschach, and more Manhattan on Mars, among other things. I'm excited.

There's also the whole
Spoiler
death of Hollis Mason scene and Dan finding out in the bar and beating the Knot Top.
and presumably an explanation for Bubastis (the flashback scene of Dr Manhattan and Laurie visiting Veidt, possibly?) I actually hope there are more scenes of Veidt being "nice".
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: cripp12 on March 12, 2009, 01:35:40 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
I don't need to see that.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 12, 2009, 01:54:49 AM
After a few days of thinking about the movie, what I liked and what I didn't, I've come to the conclusion that this could possibly be a film that gets better with multiple viewings. I left the theater feeling really disappointed, but I've still thought about it, which not a lot of movies tend to do unless there was something about it that intrigued me. It could, however, be solely based on the fact that I JUST read the book, and therefore still have the likes of the characters still fondly placed in my mind, but I'm looking forward to the DVD to hopefully see a much better, more fully realized film. I know they said they were incorporating the Black Freighter stuff in there, but I honestly hope the DC gives us multiple options, as I'd rather not have the movie interrupted by bits of a cartoon.

That being said:
Spoiler

My girlfriend and the friends I went with all predicted Ozy was a bad guy. My gf said to me after roughly the second scene he was in, "that guy is really creepy...". I don't think Goode was a bad choice, but they should have made him more likable and less of a creep.

Now, I know saying "most of the theater seemed to dislike the movie" really doesn't factor in whether or not the movie was a success, but I do think it's a valid point to make that a fairly good chunk of the audience left after the 2 hour mark, some even complaining on the way out that the movie sucked. (I can only assume they never read or heard of the novel). Personally, I go to a lot of movies, and this hardly ever happens, so when it does, it's pretty surprising to me. And my theater was packed.

I have to ask though, did anyone else absolutely HATE Richard Nixon in this? More people laughed at him than they did the Doctor's lower Manhattan. I thought his makeup was distractingly awful, and I really would have liked it better if they just had no makeup at all and just a guy that somewhat looks like him (like in Frost/Nixon) or an entirely different president all together.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lgmss on March 12, 2009, 03:49:45 AM
http://dvd.ign.com/articles/961/961607p1.html

Not only is it about the Tales of the Black Freighter, it also has Hollis Mason autobiography.

With a preview of the Green Lantern movie.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 04:09:20 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
Blue penis. He had a blue penis. It was blue... and a penis. Come on, Gremlin... come on.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BentonGrey on March 12, 2009, 04:41:05 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.

Yeah, I'm really on the fence about whether or not to bring my wife to see this.  I don't really think that she'll enjoy the story itself since it is so dark, but I feel like it is such an important story that she really should see it.  However...I don't particularly want to drag her to a movie that is not only dark, but also somewhat lewd.  I feel like I might be abusing her good will.  She may never allow me to pick another movie again.  I had actually hoped that the transition to the screen would soften a few of these rougher edges.  I don't ever need to see electric blue male nudity. :blink:
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 12, 2009, 04:41:32 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 04:09:20 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
Blue penis. He had a blue penis. It was blue... and a penis. Come on, Gremlin... come on.

Yeah, it must be a maturity thing. I did not see anything worth laughing about.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 12, 2009, 05:22:42 AM
an interesting "open-letter" from screen writer David Hayter, aka Solid Snake:

http://www.hardcorenerdity.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2239098%3ABlogPost%3A40658
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 05:52:17 AM
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 12, 2009, 04:41:32 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 04:09:20 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
Blue penis. He had a blue penis. It was blue... and a penis. Come on, Gremlin... come on.

Yeah, it must be a maturity thing. I did not see anything worth laughing about.
Ok, I can't argue with that. But you guys are missing out on some of the finer things in life. Like there was a blue penis in a movie and it was funny. You can keep your maturity if it means you can't laugh at as much stuff.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Gremlin on March 12, 2009, 06:05:25 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 05:52:17 AM
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 12, 2009, 04:41:32 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 04:09:20 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
Blue penis. He had a blue penis. It was blue... and a penis. Come on, Gremlin... come on.

Yeah, it must be a maturity thing. I did not see anything worth laughing about.
Ok, I can't argue with that. But you guys are missing out on some of the finer things in life. Like there was a blue penis in a movie and it was funny. You can keep your maturity if it means you can't laugh at as much stuff.

If you're laughing at that you're letting one element of a scene dominate your focus, and thus missing the point. =P
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: thanoson on March 12, 2009, 07:16:07 AM
Seriously, wasn't there much more blue penis in the book? Are we really saying that the presence of said penis is going to ruin the movie? Who's focus is where now?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: MJB on March 12, 2009, 07:34:40 AM
I'm not one for quoting articles but this part by Hayter really spoke to me about the so called haters of this flick...

QuoteYou say you don't like it. You say you've got issues. I get it.

And yet... You'll be thinking about this film, down the road. It'll nag at you. How it was rough and beautiful. How it went where it wanted to go, and you just hung on. How it was thoughtful and hateful and bleak and hilarious. And for Jackie Earle Haley.

Trust me. You'll come back, eventually. Just like Sally.

Might as well make it count for something.

-MJB
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Volsung on March 12, 2009, 09:27:22 AM
(Excuse my english. it's not easy for me to fully formulate)

Some friends, my girlfriend and I watched it yesterday, and we loved it.
Sure, I already knew the comics and I read that thread carefully so "I've been warned".
But i' chocked my fanboy side and franckly enjoyed the show.
The bads were meaningless in comparison of the overall good and we really enjoyed the 80's soundtrack.
Due to the movie length ,our jobs, and the public transport we were forced to watch it in a small theater scattered with antique pop corns^^.
But it was ideal. No spectators left the place, no chattering, no prudish agitation ,no absurd laugh and even some comfort
I'll return and I'll wait the dvd and extra scenes excitedly.

Gosh! One of my friend is Dan's clone^^
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Sevenforce on March 12, 2009, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 05:52:17 AM
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 12, 2009, 04:41:32 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 04:09:20 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
Blue penis. He had a blue penis. It was blue... and a penis. Come on, Gremlin... come on.

Yeah, it must be a maturity thing. I did not see anything worth laughing about.
Ok, I can't argue with that. But you guys are missing out on some of the finer things in life. Like there was a blue penis in a movie and it was funny. You can keep your maturity if it means you can't laugh at as much stuff.

Agreed! Funny is funny ^^

However, I find it funnier that the blue dong, which was, imo, very tastefully (and professionally) done, gets more comments than an equally 'lewd' film, Sirens, did when it was released.

Is this a commentary on sexual preconceptions/acceptance? Is a female being nude more 'acceptable' than a male being nude? Or am I just reading too much into things?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: The Enigma on March 12, 2009, 12:03:40 PM
Quote from: Sevenforce on March 12, 2009, 10:38:58 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 05:52:17 AM
Quote from: Figure Fan on March 12, 2009, 04:41:32 AM
Quote from: BWPS on March 12, 2009, 04:09:20 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 11, 2009, 09:52:08 PM
Am I the only one who thought the nudity wasn't comical? We see so much female nudity in films today, all the titilation is gone and it's practically boring and expected. But one guy is incredibly comfortable walking around nude and everybody makes a huge deal about it. It frustrates me.
Blue penis. He had a blue penis. It was blue... and a penis. Come on, Gremlin... come on.

Yeah, it must be a maturity thing. I did not see anything worth laughing about.
Ok, I can't argue with that. But you guys are missing out on some of the finer things in life. Like there was a blue penis in a movie and it was funny. You can keep your maturity if it means you can't laugh at as much stuff.

Agreed! Funny is funny ^^

However, I find it funnier that the blue dong, which was, imo, very tastefully (and professionally) done, gets more comments than an equally 'lewd' film, Sirens, did when it was released.

Is this a commentary on sexual preconceptions/acceptance? Is a female being nude more 'acceptable' than a male being nude? Or am I just reading too much into things?

I just saw the penis and ignored it after that. It was no more interesting to me than the dark circles around Jon's eyes or the shiny eyes themselves. If, throughout, everyone in the film had been staring at it if, god forbid, they'd made a joke about it, it would have annoyed me. It's important because it reflects Jon's detachment from humanity and, as time goes on, he wears less. The only times he dons clothes are for scenes of emotional attachment (the funeral and the interview - both  of which reflect how connected to certain people he still is). Just accept that it's part of the larger text of the film and has absolutely nothing to do with anatomy. Besides, it's not like he's cold or can feel pain or whatever and when you're isolating gluinos, you've got better things to be doing than making sure your tie matches your socks. Anyone who can't get beyond the fact that there's a naked man needs to grow up already.
As for acceptance of female vs. male nudity, I think that very much depends on the era. Renaissance sculptors had no problems with admiring the male form - just as they admired the female form. It's because of today's weird attitudes to sexuality that some people can't accept naked men like they can accept naked women - because straight men control so much of what's permissible in society. Do you honestly think it's worth getting upset over a naked man any more than a naked woman or a naked child or a naked dog? It's not done for titillation, it's done for what it is. Just as the (not great) sex scene was not about titillation, but was a comment on how Dan (and arguably Laurie) tie superheroics and sex in their heads.
Throughout the film (and even more so in the graphic novel), Hayter/Moore explores the links between the two things and I think there's a great deal more room to explore there. As for it being funny, well, I found it no funnier than my own penis...
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BentonGrey on March 12, 2009, 04:32:06 PM
I don't think there is any great mystery.  Most people who visit these forums and watch these kinds of movies are men.  Men generally enjoy seeing nude females, at least on some level, and generally are at most indifferent to male nudity.  It seems pretty straight forward to me.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: The_Baroness on March 12, 2009, 07:57:00 PM
I liked it, true some things could have been done better but as Volsung said, the good outweights the bad... really good adaptation... also.. concerning the nudity and sex scenes... they all are there to tell part of the story....

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BentonGrey on March 12, 2009, 08:02:38 PM
I understand that, but stories can be told with just as much impact while still exercising a certain amount of subtlety.  That's something I've never cared for in Moore's work.  He knows how to BE subtle, but he sees no reason to do so when it comes to...more graphic content.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: JKCarrier on March 12, 2009, 10:37:43 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 12, 2009, 08:02:38 PM
That's something I've never cared for in Moore's work.  He knows how to BE subtle, but he sees no reason to do so when it comes to...more graphic content.

In most cases, the movie is more explicit than the comic.
Spoiler

In the comic you just see Dan & Laurie getting undressed and embracing, then it cuts away to them cuddling afterward; the movie shows them actually "doing the deed". Or Jon distintegrating one of Moloch's henchmen: in the comic, you just see a cloud where the guy's head used to be, but in the movie they have blood and guts splattering all over.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BentonGrey on March 12, 2009, 10:58:53 PM
Well, that figures.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Talavar on March 13, 2009, 12:25:34 AM
So there's some nudity in a film - big deal.  It's R rated, and it's hardly the first time.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: TheMarvell on March 13, 2009, 01:05:57 AM
I'm pretty sure most people found it funny because it was blue, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Kommando on March 13, 2009, 07:50:35 AM
2 1/2 Watchmen (http://www.take180.com/s/hfajj?autoplay=true)

Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 13, 2009, 08:04:54 AM
Who knew that Watchmen would spawn so many discussions on male genitalia? I mean, really? :lol:

In all seriousness, Jon's penis was probably only noticeable the first time it appeared on screen, but after that, I was too busy paying attention to his face.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 14, 2009, 06:26:22 AM
I wanted to share a post I made from another board with you guys. It discusses the symbolism regarding Veidt at the end of the film. I'm putting it in spoilers because it discusses some of the connections that can be made to theology. The post is in no way derogatory and I'm pretty sure it's safe for FR. If not, feel free to remove it, or I can if anyone is offended. It just discusses the parallels, and goes no further.

Spoiler
QuoteYeah, I really did like the additions that they gave to Dan at the end.

Also, when Veidt catches the bullet and pulls it out of his hand, it is a nod to the 'stigmata' seen on various saints and religious figures, like Christ (Holes in the palms, etc). What's even better, is that when he has his had on his abdomen on the ground after "being shot", he is essentially nursing the wound area where Christ was stabbed by the Spear of Longinus, even if he's just faking. They are great references to him being a messiah and a 'savior' of the people, even if it's warped and twisted.

When Dan runs at him, ready to attack, Adrian outstretches his arms, and with the "stigmata" on at least one hand, it's definitely a Christ-like message there. I'm trying to make a connection using the cut on Veidt's face after Dan punches him. It seems like it's there for more than the obvious reason. Maybe a Crown of Thorns comparison can be made as well?

I loved this, and just put it together today. Makes me want to see it again, actually.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Gremlin on March 14, 2009, 06:32:06 AM
He's wearing a crown already--the gold thing on his head could be seen as that. And he's named after a king. It's an interesting observation, one I hadn't noticed. Is that in the book, too?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 14, 2009, 06:39:06 AM
Quote from: Gremlin on March 14, 2009, 06:32:06 AM
He's wearing a crown already--the gold thing on his head could be seen as that. And he's named after a king. It's an interesting observation, one I hadn't noticed. Is that in the book, too?

Yeah, I was thinking that maybe his headband could be used to make the connection. Not sure, though..

In the book, there is even more. When Ozymandias raises his arms in victory, shouting "I did it!" his wrists are placed right over the swords in the 'Alexander cutting the Gordian Knot' painting hanging above the doorway in the background, and his arms are in a slightly modified crucifixion pose.

Oh, and there is a blood stain on his abdomen in the book, but the film didn't have it since he didn't bleed as much.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Figure Fan on March 16, 2009, 01:51:56 AM
Ah-ha!

If I'm not mistaken, the crown of thorns is also known as a 'crown of lies'. Perhaps Ozymandias' "crown" equates to him having to hide the truth from the world about what he did.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: BentonGrey on March 16, 2009, 05:46:54 AM
Well, I saw this last night, and I was thoroughly impressed.  It was a fantastic interpretation of the story.  The attention to detail, the accuracy, the faithfulness...it was just great.  There were very few things that I didn't enjoy, but most of them are related to things that I didn't enjoy in the original story either (the high degree of racy subject matter, etc.).  The only thing that really bothered me about the movie itself was the voice acting for Doc Manhattan.  He was TERRIBLE in the beginning, but by the end he had improved a decent amount.  Also, just for the sake of being nit-picky, Hooded Justice wasn't buff enough. 

Rorshach was PERFECT, absolutely, unbelievably, perfect.  I have to tell y'all, there was a moment, when he and Nite Owl are approaching Ozy's base in the arctic and Archie is stalling.  Rorshach starts expressing his concerns in his flat, clipped way, word for word out of the book.  That made me smile and chuckle from pure, geeky glee.  There were several moments like that, but that one really stuck out to me.  This was great.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: lugaru on March 17, 2009, 06:21:14 PM
My Watchmen review:

These times they are a'changin. It used to be that most comic books where considered inadaptable to the big screen, or if it got adapted dozens of things would have to change to get green lighted.  Hell, it was less than a year ago that we were all shocked to hear that Watchmen was going to take place in the 80's just like the comic does, instead of adapting it to the more accessible here and now. So now that most comic books can make it from the page to the screen while screaming "never compromise", the creative team becomes more important, since changes now feel like a matter of choice rather than necessity. Such is the case with Watchmen, which up to now was considered impossible to adapt. It turns out that yes, you can bring it to the screen with slavish reverence for the source material, yet directorial style still plays a huge part in the films tone and structure. In this case all of Zack Snyder's quirks make it into the movie and intertwine themselves with the original story producing great visuals while sometimes undermining the story with his lack of subtlety.

(read the whole thing @ the connoisseurs)
http://www.theconnoisseurs.com/watchmen.html
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Voltimax on March 22, 2009, 08:57:06 PM
I've recently watched this film.
Fantastic film, I thoroughly enjoyed it and will definitely be seeing it again.
By far the best superhero film I have ever seen.
One thing that made it all the more enjoyable, was the fact that I haven't read the book. I am now in the process of reading it and the film seems pretty faithful to the book thus far, which is a rare thing.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Reepicheep on March 22, 2009, 09:04:16 PM
This film has hit my top 20, possibly top 10 when I give some thought to what the other 19 would be. Its the superhero equivalent to the Godfather in my eyes. It had everything: it was witty, the characters were perfect (Rorschach has gained a special place in my heart, right next to V), the plot was epic... No doubt this will become a classic.

I had no prior knowledge of what the Watchmen was about, so can't comment on the similarities of the comic. I will be able to in the future, though, since I bought the comic immediately after getting home.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: kkhohoho on March 22, 2009, 09:17:49 PM
I thought the movie was allright. I felt that that they edited, added, and subtracted too much. (Including needless extra action and violence, which Watchmen was never about.)
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Renegade on March 22, 2009, 09:37:19 PM
I loved it.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: daerdevil on March 23, 2009, 02:40:13 PM
I've been afraid to read this thread, and even more scared of seeing the movie.  Lots of opinions out there, both good and bad.  I've finally conquered my fear of reading angry fan boy posts and spoilers, and am quite pleased to see the majority of good remarks about the movie.  I'll have to make it a point to get out of the house and finally see this thing, in all of it's glory on the big screen.  Good to see that a Superhero movie doesn't have to be Hollywood-a-sized to be a hit.  So tired of having to see everything reduced to leather suits and Post 9/11 themes.
Title: Re: Who Watches the Watchmen? (New Movie Thread)
Post by: Tomato on March 23, 2009, 03:00:13 PM
I saw this movie a week ago, and I was very happy with it. It was a bit gratuitous on the violence+other stuff (this is still a child-friendly board  ;)), but at least as far as the violence is concerned, I at least understood it (the scene with Nite Owl+ Miss Jupiter was a bit overkill, however) because we're seeing this movie partly from the perspective of Rorschach, who isn't exactly Saturday Morning Watchmen material to begin with. In fact, the one scene I was actually afraid of actually watching, with the dead dogs (I've had to put down 2 pet dogs, not a happy subject for me) was actually one of the highlights of the movie for me. Not because of the dead dogs, but because it was in that moment that you understood why he became what he did. I hadn't actually gotten that part from the comic, because I skimmed past the dead dog stuff.