Is pretty ....well... stupid.
Don't know what more to say about it. While Marvel seems to have righted its ship, and is steeped in continuity and <gasp> good stories (Herc, Future Foundations, Avengers, Captain America are all titles I started reading again), DC has gone off the deep end and decided "hey, one more crisis couldn't hurt."
Well, don't know about you gang, but Im not interested in starting from scratch again. So I'm dropping every one of my DC books (which was down to 5 anyway) and trying some indies until they get their heads out of their butts over there.
Ehh, I've written about it on 'Mato's forum a good deal, so I won't rehash everything here, but I will say one thing that bears repeating. For years and years I've been saying that DC needs to start with a clean slate, just wipe away continuity and just start over again. They've made too many mistakes to fix with their selective editing. What I've wished for (hoped against hope for) was for them to start over, but with clear directions. I wanted them to know where Batman was going to end up, what would happen to Aquaman, or exactly what would happen when Speedy grew up.
That was, after all, the idea behind the DCUG. They could retell some of the best stories from previous years, especially those that were good ideas but just lacked in the execution, but they would have an end point in mind, and that would generate real, organic, and actually worthwhile change. You could have old heroes step down and new heroes step up, and you could do it without torturing the originals and making everyone resent the new blood. Anyway, I could go on about that forever. I could, but it won't do any good because, of course, it remains just a dream. The closest I'll come to it is in the DCUG.
Instead, DC is going to try to have their cake and eat it too. They're tearing a great deal down, but they're rebuilding on the same crooked foundations. A lot of the same bad ideas from the current books are in evidence in their reboot. All of the things that I hate about modern comics are alive and well in the future DC, or so it appears. So yeah, I wish I could be excited, but I can't. I will likely pick up the new Aquaman book, just to support the character, but I doubt I'll even read that for long.
I wanted to remain optimistic about this whole reboot/reset/whatever thing, but for the most part, I've found the whole promotional process to be chaotic and a tad depressing, like a step backwards in many cases. There are even times when I don't think that the people in charge even know what's going on.
I guess I'll see how it plays out, maybe tradewait a bit on some titles, wait for reviews on others.
Like Benton I already talked a lot about it int TOF, so I'll just remember some points:
-It's a "soft" reboot, some characters will be rebooted (Superman, Wonder Woman), others won't (Batman, GL). So DC is still studying which stories happened and which don't. I don't think it can be called a "fresh start" and an "easy jump on" point.
While I would hate a full reboot (I'm very glad LSH won't be very affected by the reboot) it would make more sense. If everything is new, anyone can hop aboard, but it's harder to do this when you have to discover how "Death of Superman" and "Identity Crisis" fit in the new continuity.
Yeah we talked about this alot over at ToF. I'm certainly disappointed but I do plan to give a few books a try, specifically Justice League, Teen Titans, and Superboy. I'll be keeping an eye of the Bat books too.
Quote from: B A D on August 10, 2011, 04:50:53 PM
starting from scratch again.
Well it's not quite scratch. Some books (Green Lantern books, Bat books) have retained most of their continuity. But yeah other books appear to be restarting.
Dislikes:
Superboy is unrecognizable as are several second tier characters (seriously I have no idea who this Wondergirl is but she isn't Cassie).
The timeline seems extremely too compressed to have happened in 5 years.
C-list characters seem to have been removed, replaced, or re-purposed (really Rose Wilson as Superboy's keeper and Karen Starr (Powergirl) as Mr Terrific's business partner is just pointlessly dumb. And where the #@$% is JAckson Hyde, Raven, Beast Boy, Steel and Donna Troy?).
The reversal of important character developments (Babs as Oracle vs Batgirl" - this is particularly disturbing for me considering how important Oracle has been to the DCU and to the idea that heroes come in different forms).
Giving Wonder Woman pants and removing this as fast as people started warming up to it - because you know she isn't Wonderful unless she's posed like a whore and wearing a bikini.
New characters just because (Bug, Lava Girl, and Big Purple Fist Lad have zero appeal to me as a life-long Titans fan. I don't mind new blood but when you've made the core of the team all-new,all-different and add new characters, I feel cheated because I read Teen Titans for Teen Titans not random new characters).
Wildstorm in the DCNU (I love the idea of Stormwatch as a title - it feels like the Authority/Planetary from what I've read about it).
Likes:
All-new number 1's and new creative teams (not going to lie I've ordered 3-months worth of JL, Action Comics, Teen Titans, Superboy, Stormwatch, and Aquaman)
Cyborg becoming a Justice Leaguer (despite what people are saying, it makes sense considering his history with the Superfriends show)
More diversity in the Justice League (two Koreans, four women, and 1.5 Black men - the league hasn't been this diverse since Morrison's run).
New Characters! (Element Woman and Lady Luck seem like they have a lot of potential and unlike what is being done with Teen Titans - I still know who the Justice League is and the additional of new characters doesn't feel so just because to me).
Action Comics with Grant Morrison (nuff said).
I lost interest the minute the Doom Patrol was cancelled...And I'm not eager to see another rebooted Doom Patrol either. A lot of DC history down the toilet again.
IMHO DC sucks!
Dana
Wait, wait, wait...so, I've been doing a bit more reading about this, and I was wondering if there was some small chance that this reboot might make Batman books palatable to me once again, something that hasn't been the case since the surprisingly excellent run of Batman Adventures and Batman and Robin Adventures. So, what do I see? The Robin of the reboot is Damian (which I know some of y'all like), but this makes ZERO sense. If superheroes have only been around five years, Damian can't possibly even be alive, much less be Robin. Assuming that his origin is even REMOTELY like the original one, he had to have been conceived by Talia and Batman, who meet through the superhero persona....so, what the heck? I know that this isn't exactly earth shattering news. We've noticed several things that make no sense, but this really aggravates me even more. Here's a pretty legitimate reason to do what I've been wanting DC to do for ages, and maybe even get Dick Grayson back as Robin, to hopefully go on to a better transition than he original did, but instead we get a character that I don't care for and who doesn't even make sense. Bah. It looks like DC has succeeded in strengthening my resolve on my boycott. :P
From what I've read online Benton...Batman has been doing his thing for 10 years. No one thinks he actually exists...an urban legend. So apparently he's had time to have 15 Robins or whatever.
I'll say that:
I would have hoped for more of a "start from scratch" type reboot.
I am looking forward to seeing Hank Hall back in his own book, as Hawk.
I am dissapointed that the JSA is apparently non-existant in the DCnU, they were my main ties to DC for many years.
Quote from: Courtnall6 on August 25, 2011, 04:33:34 AM
From what I've read online Benton...Batman has been doing his thing for 10 years. No one thinks he actually exists...an urban legend. So apparently he's had time to have 15 Robins or whatever.
For that matter, I would think that Clark Kent's been around for a lot longer than that. He just didn't start out as Superman.
As I said on the ToF boards, I'll definitely be reading fewer DC titles after the reboot. A bunch of books that I read are getting cancelled, and being replaced with titles or creative teams I have no interest in.
That said, I will definitely check out Grant Morrison on Action Comics.
Quote from: Courtnall6 on August 25, 2011, 04:33:34 AM
From what I've read online Benton...Batman has been doing his thing for 10 years. No one thinks he actually exists...an urban legend. So apparently he's had time to have 15 Robins or whatever.
Thanks for the clarification C.
So...the very first year or so Bruce was Batman he got himself an illegitimate son? Excellent....just excellent. :P
Dan Didio said (maybe as a joke), "Robin was a intern job" to explain how Bats had so many partners in so little time. Anyway, Didio and Lee said the reboot was necessary to get "younger, less-experienced and more relatable" heroes. But how can Bats be "younger" if Dick is still a grown up who was Robin, Nightwing and even Batman? Will Dick be older than Superman (who does look younger in the new Superman comics)?
I guess DC thought Batman was fine (read Grant Morrison) as, like I've been saying, the Bat books are almost untouched by the reboot. Off the top of my head there's three changes - Dick returns to being Nightwing, Barbara returns to being Batgirl, and presumably Stephanie will be returning to being Spoiler. And apparently all those changes will be explained in story. I think everything else is essentially the same. Even all the main writers are staying on (Morrison, Synder, Daniels, Finch).
I prefer it this way. I love most of the current Batverse and to reset it to the beginning would kind of suck. And you know creators would just rush to get Dick back to Nightwing, and introduce Tim etc.
Bah.
I have zero interest in the DC reboot. Not a fan of any of the redesigned costumes. The designs feel like early 90's Image characters.
Click HERE (http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/08/22/dc-comics-exclusive-covers-batman-superman-revamped-heroes-and-digital-will-save-the-day/#/0) for a revealing article about the reboot.
My favorite quote from the article:
Quote"The truth is people are leaving anyway, they're just doing it quietly, and we have been papering it over with increased prices," DiDio said. "We didn't want to wake up one day and find we had a bunch of $20 books that 10,000 people are buying."
- Dan Didio
Heh, like I said, desperation. That's all the more reason for them to be truly bold and do a real reboot, though. :P
Agreed. But I think we all knew that. We comic nerds are a dieing breed.
Well, now that we're less than a week away from the reboot, what books, if any, are you guys gonna try?
My list is:
Batman (Scott Snyder has been nothing short of amazing with his Detective Comics run, I expect more of the same here.)
Justice League (I was unsure about this one, but after seeing some interior art, I'm giving this a shot. Some amazing art in there!)
Green Lantern (Sinestro as a GL and the star of the title? Interesting enough to give it a test spin.)
Aquaman (That's right Benton, he was the only bright spot in Brightest Day(pun intended) so I'll give this a shot.)
Animal Man (I like Jeff Lemire...I like Animal Man...so why not?)
Action Comics (All-Star Superman is my 2nd favorite Superman story so I'm looking forward to this title.)
I'm taking full credit for the fact that you're buying Aquaman, Murs. ;)
I still say that comic readers are a dieing breed only because nobody has made a comprehensive effort to bring in new readers. DC is trying it halfheartedly now, but really, DC could never be the one to do it anyway because of the stranglehold that WB has on their non-comic enterprises. Marvel's perfectly situated to create their own new generation of readers. They just aren't doing it.
As for what I'll be reading, only Aquaman. The new DC still leaves me cold, and the only reason I can bring myself to buy Aquaman is because I want to help support the character. At the very least, I'm hoping that this whole thing will make DC and comic fans in general realize that Aquaman is a viable character.
Ehhh... maybe I'm naive or something, but I'm not too terrible worked up about this shake-up. Honestly, DC needed to do something 'cause they had become too stagnant as a creative business. While there are some changes that I am certainly not thrilled about (yes, including the 90s-ification of many of the books and designs), overall I'm kinda pumped to see how this whole thing shakes out. Between The Ladyfriend and I, we are getting 50 of the 52 new titles (Blackhawks and Men at War hold no interest with either of us). Books I'm most looking forward to:
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Green Lantern: The New Guardians
Hawk & Dove (just to see how bad the Liefeld art will get before the book gets canned)
Aquaman
Justice League Dark (closest thing to Shadowpact I'll ever get again)
Red Hood & the Outsiders (... what?!)
Batwing
DC Comics Presents (3 - 6 issue arcs featuring C-grade and lower heroes)
Quote from: The Hitman on August 26, 2011, 07:00:32 PM
Ehhh... maybe I'm naive or something, but I'm not too terrible worked up about this shake-up. Honestly, DC needed to do something 'cause they had become too stagnant as a creative business. While there are some changes that I am certainly not thrilled about (yes, including the 90s-ification of many of the books and designs), overall I'm kinda pumped to see how this whole thing shakes out. Between The Ladyfriend and I, we are getting 50 of the 52 new titles (Blackhawks and Men at War hold no interest with either of us). Books I'm most looking forward to:
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Green Lantern: The New Guardians
Hawk & Dove (just to see how bad the Liefeld art will get before the book gets canned)
Aquaman
Justice League Dark (closest thing to Shadowpact I'll ever get again)
Red Hood & the Outsiders (... what?!)
Batwing
DC Comics Presents (3 - 6 issue arcs featuring C-grade and lower heroes)
Emphasis Added
You sir, are part of the problem. :P
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 26, 2011, 07:03:47 PM
You sir, are part of the problem. :P
I, sir, am a comic book masochist.
Why else would I have every issue of the Ron Marz run on Vigilante, quite possibly the worst series made in the last 5 years.
I'll at least check out Action Comics and Justice League International. Depending on critical reception, I may also pick up Birds of Prey and Blue Beetle.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 26, 2011, 04:56:16 PM
I still say that comic readers are a dieing breed only because nobody has made a comprehensive effort to bring in new readers.
Every time someone says this we hear how is "impossible"to get kids interested in comic books, meanwhile kid books are selling very well in newstands around the world, oh well...
Anyway, I'm not a fan of "THe New for the Nineties DC", but I'll check some titles:
Legion (my favorite super team, Paul Levitz writing, no reboot...)
Action Comics (I'm more than a little intrigued by Morrison's idea to get Superman back to his "Social rebel" days).
Aaaand, that's all folks.
Quote from: John Jr. on August 26, 2011, 11:26:04 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 26, 2011, 04:56:16 PM
I still say that comic readers are a dieing breed only because nobody has made a comprehensive effort to bring in new readers.
Every time someone says this we hear how is "impossible"to get kids interested in comic books, meanwhile kid books are selling very well in newstands around the world, oh well...
Anyway, I'm not a fan of "THe New for the Nineties DC", but I'll check some titles:
Legion (my favorite super team, Paul Levitz writing, no reboot...)
Action Comics (I'm more than a little intrigued by Morrison's idea to get Superman back to his "Social rebel" days).
Aaaand, that's all folks.
Exactly JJ, it's just about making the effort to reach the right audience and BUILD a market, but you can't do that by just doing sensationalistic things. You'd have to have a comprehensive strategy of marketing (movies, tv, games, commercials, ads, ALMOST like what Marvel is doing, but everything should point back to the comics and tie together), but you'd also have to put the books where kids are. Make deals with Walmart and other stores. When I was a kid I started buying comics because they were still in the spinner rack at the grocery store. You get the characters and the ideas out there through your other media, then hook them by making a continued exploration of superheroes easily accessible. Digital distribution can also make this easier, but you'd have to partner with places that kids GO online, just like in real life. Ahh....I do wish that someone would do it, because I don't want to see the end of the American comic industry, and unless we really create a new generation of readers, that is precisely what is going to happen. :( Heck, if Marvel would build on their Avengers cartoon and their Marvel Adventures Superheroes book more than they have, they could have a first step right there.
Also, no Aquaman JJ? I'm disappointed in you! ;)
Seems like many years ago I saw commercials for Marvel Comics on one of the cable networks.
Here in Brazil, kids books and teen books outsells super-heroes by far and they're all sold at newstands and big stores. My daughter is a typical girl of her generation, she loves computers, internet and online RPGs, but, she reads her kid comics, and she can buy then in a newstand 2 or 3 bloks from home.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 26, 2011, 11:36:08 PM
Also, no Aquaman JJ? I'm disappointed in you! ;)
Sorry, buddy, but after "Legion of Three Worlds" I'm not reading anything by Geoff Johns...He scares me... :D
Quote from: murs47 on August 26, 2011, 03:52:15 PM
Well, now that we're less than a week away from the reboot, what books, if any, are you guys gonna try?
I'll be trying:
Justice League (Johns and Lee sounds like a winner)
Teen Titans (Tim, Connor, Bart and Cassie are among my favorite DC characters so I'll at least give this one a try)
Superboy (see Teen Titans)
I'm also tempted to try out Batman, but I'll need to see a preview, maybe some reviews.
Pod, you should check out Snyder's current run on Detective Comics. Batman should be pretty much identical to that. I personally love what Snyder's done so far with Batman.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 26, 2011, 07:03:47 PM
Quote from: The Hitman on August 26, 2011, 07:00:32 PM
Ehhh... maybe I'm naive or something, but I'm not too terrible worked up about this shake-up. Honestly, DC needed to do something 'cause they had become too stagnant as a creative business. While there are some changes that I am certainly not thrilled about (yes, including the 90s-ification of many of the books and designs), overall I'm kinda pumped to see how this whole thing shakes out. Between The Ladyfriend and I, we are getting 50 of the 52 new titles (Blackhawks and Men at War hold no interest with either of us). Books I'm most looking forward to:
Animal Man
Swamp Thing
Green Lantern: The New Guardians
Hawk & Dove (just to see how bad the Liefeld art will get before the book gets canned)
Aquaman
Justice League Dark (closest thing to Shadowpact I'll ever get again)
Red Hood & the Outsiders (... what?!)
Batwing
DC Comics Presents (3 - 6 issue arcs featuring C-grade and lower heroes)
Emphasis Added
You sir, are part of the problem. :P
I guess I'm part of the problem too. I'm not a Liefield fan, but I am a Hawk and Dove fan. I haven't bought a comic book in who knows how long but I am curious, so I'll check out a few of the first issues.
My list:
Green Arrow
Hawk and Dove
Deathstroke
The Flash
Green Lantern - Probably a few of the related titles
Batman - Probably a few of the related titles
Legion - I'm still up in the air on
My 'list':
Action Comics: Because it's Grant Morrison.
I honestly haven't been reading a lot of recent DC... recently, and new comics are kind of expensive these days, and often with too little content for the cost, so there isn't too much I'm interested in here (And it doesn't help that they canned the JSA,)... but I really like Grant, so I might check AC#1 out.
DC is really gambling here, with the odds (and a bad comicbook market) heavily against them. I have a feeling their prices will go up too.
BTW: How on Earth does Mr Liefeld still get work?
Dana
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on August 27, 2011, 06:52:05 PM
DC is really gambling here, with the odds (and a bad comicbook market) heavily against them. I have a feeling their prices will go up too.
BTW: How on Earth does Mr Liefeld still get work?
Dana
I just can't understand that either, Dana. He's pretty much a living joke these days....so how does anyone think it is a good idea to hire him? I guess DC really is trying to evoke the 90's, and he is pretty indicative of everything that was wrong with comics in that decade...
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 27, 2011, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on August 27, 2011, 06:52:05 PM
DC is really gambling here, with the odds (and a bad comicbook market) heavily against them. I have a feeling their prices will go up too.
BTW: How on Earth does Mr Liefeld still get work?
Dana
I just can't understand that either, Dana. He's pretty much a living joke these days....so how does anyone think it is a good idea to hire him? I guess DC really is trying to evoke the 90's, and he is pretty indicative of everything that was wrong with comics in that decade...
Simple answer; he's so bad that people would pay good money just to see it for themselves.
LOL! I'll have to pass....I got enough of his "art" when I used to buy New Mutants and later X-Force, back in the day.
Anyway, I hope you guys that love DC will find some things that are good (things you can enjoy) in the reboot.
Dana
DC got a lot of attention with the reboot, the first issues will get a boost in sales, but the quality of stories will decide who'll stick around or not. And I don't know if they'll get new readers or just "returning" readers. People are speculating the "Back to the 90s" angle is intentional, an effort to get back readers who gave up comics.
Unfortunately the reboot is a great "jump off" point too, so we'll have to wait some months before we can say if it worked (sales will still be strong months after the reboot) or failed (sales get back to "normal" months after the reboot).
Quote from: John Jr. on August 27, 2011, 08:18:19 PM
DC got a lot of attention with the reboot, the first issues will get a boost in sales, but the quality of stories will decide who'll stick around or not. And I don't know if they'll get new readers or just "returning" readers. People are speculating the "Back to the 90s" angle is intentional, an effort to get back readers who gave up comics.
Unfortunately the reboot is a great "jump off" point too, so we'll have to wait some months before we can say if it worked (sales will still be strong months after the reboot) or failed (sales get back to "normal" months after the reboot).
Personally I'm betting the print comics will be back to around normal levels within 6-10 months. However the digital sales (the whole line is going digital) could make a big difference for DC.
The initial sales estimates looks good though. Justice League will be over 200k making it the top selling comic of 2011. I believe 6 other titles are set to be over 100k. So the relaunch will be very good for DC initially.
If the relaunch is successful I expect Marvel will pull something similar within 3 years.
Didio on Fan expo 11:
Spoiler
"Should we tease?" asked O.M.A.C. co-writer and DC co-publisher DiDio. The rest agreed, and James Robinson confirmed that he is working on a new Justice Society project with artist Nicola Scott, and that the parallel world Earth-2 will make a return. The crowd erupted into thunderous applause.
"We don't want them to just be cameos and then forgotten," DiDio said. "We've waited on JSA because we really wanted to get the details right. We were hammering out the characters as late as yesterday."
Quote from: John Jr. on August 28, 2011, 02:02:22 AM
Didio on Fan expo 11:
Spoiler
"Should we tease?" asked O.M.A.C. co-writer and DC co-publisher DiDio. The rest agreed, and James Robinson confirmed that he is working on a new Justice Society project with artist Nicola Scott, and that the parallel world Earth-2 will make a return. The crowd erupted into thunderous applause.
"We don't want them to just be cameos and then forgotten," DiDio said. "We've waited on JSA because we really wanted to get the details right. We were hammering out the characters as late as yesterday."
That makes me feel a little better. The JSA have always been some of my DC favorites.
Early reviews of week 1, mostly positive (one decidedly and unsurprisingly, not).
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/08/30/dc-comics-relaunch-preview/
Just read Flashpoint and Justice League and I am really excited about what is next. It really was a ride worth waiting for.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OH2y94w7Ono/Tl5pIxF5XbI/AAAAAAAABOw/7n5XmRZae1A/s576/11%2B-%2B1)
Just read them both. Flashpoint's conclusion was great. What a breath of fresh air to finally have an event be worthy of the word. Justice League was a tease...a good tease...but it was just too short.
Quote from: murs47 on September 01, 2011, 12:35:39 AM
Just read them both. Flashpoint's conclusion was great. What a breath of fresh air to finally have an event be worthy of the word. Justice League was a tease...a good tease...but it was just too short.
I completely agree and I actually found myself reading Justice League of America Vol 3 #1 to compare and I have to say Grant Morrison's #1 14 years ago not only introduced me to all the characters, it left me full but wanting more. JL #1 just left me wanting. I mean the character design pages where nice but I would have rather had more story.
Oh and only Jim Lee can make these 90s costumes look good.
Just read JL #1 (trying out the digital comics... it's ok. I'd prefer it if I could change some of the program's options around, but it's decent enough) I'm kind of in the same boat... I like what's in there, but the whole issue was pretty much Batman and GL meeting for the first time.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 01, 2011, 12:44:39 AM
Quote from: murs47 on September 01, 2011, 12:35:39 AM
Just read them both. Flashpoint's conclusion was great. What a breath of fresh air to finally have an event be worthy of the word. Justice League was a tease...a good tease...but it was just too short.
I completely agree and I actually found myself reading Justice League of America Vol 3 #1 to compare and I have to say Grant Morrison's #1 14 years ago not only introduced me to all the characters, it left me full but wanting more. JL #1 just left me wanting. I mean the character design pages where nice but I would have rather had more story.
Oh and only Jim Lee can make these 90s costumes look good.
I'm going to have to flip through this in the comic book store. You know AA, Morrison's JLA did handle the large cast and pacing extremely well. That's true. Those were some very good books.
Just finished up my day's comics. Justice League was pretty decent. The pace was (not unexpectedly) on the slow side, but the interaction between Hal and Bruce was pretty good, and the art was great. I'll get the next one.
EDIT:
Bleeding Cool pointed out (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/08/31/the-justice-leagueflashpoint-crossover-everybody-missed/) that the hooded woman from Flashpoint is making little where's Waldo appearances in the new #1s (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/08/31/52-appearances-of-the-strange-woman-from-flashpoint-5/). She was in JL, but I didn't read Flashpoint so I never would have noticed.
Fun and a little creepy.
I checked out Justice League #1 as well (a friend had picked it up, so reading it for free is a big plus). It felt ...underwhelming. GL meets Batman, and the pair of them meet Superman, Apokalyptic shenanigans are afoot, and Vic Stone plays football. It's very well done, but for the first issue of this major launch, very little actually happens.
I did enjoy
Spoiler
GL's huge arrogance about what he can handle - after all, in regular situations a green lantern is incredibly powerful. And then he tries to take Superman in for questioning, and gets knocked on his butt.
Quote from: Podmark on September 01, 2011, 02:33:44 AM
Just finished up my day's comics. Justice League was pretty decent. The pace was (not unexpectedly) on the slow side, but the interaction between Hal and Bruce was pretty good, and the art was great. I'll get the next one.
It's unfortunate that we've come to expect so little of comics. They could speed it up. Comics used to tell entire stories (plural) in a single issue. Now we have "arcs" and "events" that drag out one [usually mediocre at best] story in an effort to keep people buying the next installment.
Quote from: yell0w_lantern on September 01, 2011, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: Podmark on September 01, 2011, 02:33:44 AM
Just finished up my day's comics. Justice League was pretty decent. The pace was (not unexpectedly) on the slow side, but the interaction between Hal and Bruce was pretty good, and the art was great. I'll get the next one.
It's unfortunate that we've come to expect so little of comics. They could speed it up. Comics used to tell entire stories (plural) in a single issue. Now we have "arcs" and "events" that drag out one [usually mediocre at best] story in an effort to keep people buying the next installment.
Writing for the trades can be annoying, but complete stories or multiple complete stories in twenty-odd pages are not better.
Quote from: Talavar on September 01, 2011, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: yell0w_lantern on September 01, 2011, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: Podmark on September 01, 2011, 02:33:44 AM
Just finished up my day's comics. Justice League was pretty decent. The pace was (not unexpectedly) on the slow side, but the interaction between Hal and Bruce was pretty good, and the art was great. I'll get the next one.
It's unfortunate that we've come to expect so little of comics. They could speed it up. Comics used to tell entire stories (plural) in a single issue. Now we have "arcs" and "events" that drag out one [usually mediocre at best] story in an effort to keep people buying the next installment.
Writing for the trades can be annoying, but complete stories or multiple complete stories in twenty-odd pages are not better.
I don't know about that Tal. I've read some great one-and-done tales. You can certainly tell stories that are satisfying, yet still part of a larger picture, like Morrison did in JLA. Those stories aren't empty, and yet they aren't rushed either.
Quote from: yell0w_lantern on September 01, 2011, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: Podmark on September 01, 2011, 02:33:44 AM
Just finished up my day's comics. Justice League was pretty decent. The pace was (not unexpectedly) on the slow side, but the interaction between Hal and Bruce was pretty good, and the art was great. I'll get the next one.
It's unfortunate that we've come to expect so little of comics. They could speed it up. Comics used to tell entire stories (plural) in a single issue. Now we have "arcs" and "events" that drag out one [usually mediocre at best] story in an effort to keep people buying the next installment.
That is generally true, but in this case I was speaking about Geoff Johns in particular. JL was in line with the average pacing of his books.
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 01, 2011, 09:39:09 PM
Quote from: Talavar on September 01, 2011, 09:07:05 PM
Quote from: yell0w_lantern on September 01, 2011, 04:43:07 PM
Quote from: Podmark on September 01, 2011, 02:33:44 AM
Just finished up my day's comics. Justice League was pretty decent. The pace was (not unexpectedly) on the slow side, but the interaction between Hal and Bruce was pretty good, and the art was great. I'll get the next one.
It's unfortunate that we've come to expect so little of comics. They could speed it up. Comics used to tell entire stories (plural) in a single issue. Now we have "arcs" and "events" that drag out one [usually mediocre at best] story in an effort to keep people buying the next installment.
Writing for the trades can be annoying, but complete stories or multiple complete stories in twenty-odd pages are not better.
I don't know about that Tal. I've read some great one-and-done tales. You can certainly tell stories that are satisfying, yet still part of a larger picture, like Morrison did in JLA. Those stories aren't empty, and yet they aren't rushed either.
I agree that you can tell stories that are satisfying by the issue but still part of a larger whole - I did say that not enough happened of relevance in the new Justice League reboot, and good one-and-dones exist, even if they are rare. What I was really objecting to was the idea multiple complete stories in one issue that are good. I suppose it's theoretically possible that they exist.
Morrison talked about his Superman with Newsarama (and they even got a preview of the new Action #1). Morrison is really trying to get Supes back to his 1938 roots like the "champion of the opressed". It will be a little harder to make new Batman vs Superman fights, since both will be outlaws vigilantes now.
Interview:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/grant-morrison-action-comics-110902.html
Preview:
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album.php?aid=44117
For me:
Ongoing monthly:
Stormwatch
Superman
Batman & Robin
Justice League
Wait for the Trade:
Action Comics
Checking Out the First Issue:
Captain Atom - I've read the comparisons of this version of Doctor Manhattan but it also reminds me of Doctor Solar.
Nightwing: Although I wished he kept the cowl
Swamp Thing
Animal Man
I still can't get over how ridiculous Superman looks in that farmer fanboy get up. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Missed Justice League, the Comic Book store was sold out, as was Barnes and Noble, as was the two other places we went. :angry:
On a side note, has anyone heard if the Red Circle characters are going to make a return?
Quote from: Cyber Burn on September 04, 2011, 06:11:38 AM
On a side note, has anyone heard if the Red Circle characters are going to make a return?
Nothing's been said yet. I think they're slowly releasing news about non-DC characters. THUNDER Agents was just confirmed as returning a few days ago. Wait and see I guess.
From what I'm reading online is that DC is trying bring their heroes to a more current time. That they are all still pretty new to being heroes and so some of them will make mistakes and such. If this is the way they're going, then why not make an "Ultimate" universe and reboot the heroes there? Mind you, I haven't read a comic in a few years, I just hate it when they change something that I grew up with or maybe that's just me getting old.
Quote from: JeyNyce on September 04, 2011, 09:31:26 PM
From what I'm reading online is that DC is trying bring their heroes to a more current time. That they are all still pretty new to being heroes and so some of them will make mistakes and such. If this is the way they're going, then why not make an "Ultimate" universe and reboot the heroes there? Mind you, I haven't read a comic in a few years, I just hate it when they change something that I grew up with or maybe that's just me getting old.
I think because DC looks to Marvel, and, in the end, the Ultimate line was a relative failure. The only real, sustained, hit was Ultimate Spider-man - Ultimates was limited series, and burned out quickly, Ultimate X-men and Fantastic Four always struggled to find readers and a point, and the concept of two universes of the same characters altered in sometimes fundamental ways is just as confusing to new readers as one universe with lots of continuity.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on August 31, 2011, 06:02:20 AM
Just read Flashpoint and Justice League and I am really excited about what is next. It really was a ride worth waiting for.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OH2y94w7Ono/Tl5pIxF5XbI/AAAAAAAABOw/7n5XmRZae1A/s576/11%2B-%2B1)
My wife found me a copy of JL#1, but the background on mine is orange instead of blue like the one AA has posted. Are there multiple variants?
Yep, there's variants. Did you read it yet, Cyber?
Just to tack onto Tavalar was saying, one of the fundamental problems the Ultimate line had was that it was constantly defined by the normal Marvel U... It always had to try and be edgier and more modern, to the point that it often became more of a caricature of the marvel universe then a legitimate "modern" interpretation (pietro and wanda twincest, gay colossus, etc). I don't see DC making those kinds of mistakes here... this isn't some dumb side universe they can toss out if sales don't go right.
Well, actually... the Ultimate line started out fairly edgy and then when they took the ultimate writers to the 616/main Marvel Universe, it also became edgier to the point that both "universes" were competing for which universe could pull off the edgier storylines.
Quote from: murs47 on September 05, 2011, 02:35:52 PM
Yep, there's variants. Did you read it yet, Cyber?
So I finally got a chance to read Justice League #1. For the most part, I enjoyed it. Solid art, a good pace, left me wanting more. My only real beef was that Green Lantern really came across like an arrogant jack-@$$. I would hope that future issues would ground the character a little to be more relateable to readers. All in all, even though I'll only be picking up a few of the new first issues, I hope the rest of the new titles follow suit.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on September 05, 2011, 07:18:58 AM
Quote from: AfghanAnt on August 31, 2011, 06:02:20 AM
Just read Flashpoint and Justice League and I am really excited about what is next. It really was a ride worth waiting for.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OH2y94w7Ono/Tl5pIxF5XbI/AAAAAAAABOw/7n5XmRZae1A/s576/11%2B-%2B1)
My wife found me a copy of JL#1, but the background on mine is orange instead of blue like the one AA has posted. Are there multiple variants?
Mine had the digital copy with it and cost a dollar extra which is why there is a different background.
well batman was ummm interesting. consider me hooked and demanding the next issue
Thanks for the clarification AA, I was kind of worried that it had already gone to a second printing.
As for what I picked up today:
Spoiler
BATGIRL #1 - A good read overall, I'm glad to see Barbara Gordan back as Batgirl. I'd like to see where this goes.
DETECTIVE COMICS #1 - I agree with TUE on this one, this is starting out with a bang.
GREEN ARROW #1 - Not what I was expecting, but the JLU animated spoiled me, so I was hoping for a character written in a similar fashion.
HAWK AND DOVE #1 - Rob Liefield's art aside, I actually found this interesting, but I've always had a soft spot for Hawk and Dove. I'm curious as to how the story is going to develop. But like I said, it's drawn by Liefield, so I don't know how long this title will last.
I just read Stormwatch, Action and Detective and I have to say I'm not happy with the 11.97 (plus tax) I paid for them. Stormwatch was good but seeing Apollo (who was always the optimist of the Authority) now this anti-hero was bothersome. Though I did like reading that MM was still a JLA member (I have no clue how Johns' is going to work this out). Action and Detective Comics left me confused and even unhappy. Superman is a complete arsehole and Batman is completely unsuitable for kids (something I thought DC would want to capture). All and all I will stick with Stormwatch because I love the Authority but Action and Detective will not make it to my pull list after issue 3 (because I agreed to buy 3 issues of each title I wanted).
want can i say i don't mind the violence and gore in batman, i expect gotham to be a cess pool. as long as bats isn't the one ripping throats out etc i don't have a problem with it
i didn't pick up action comics but from what i've heard man is it getting destroyed. one reviewer summed it up for me, when you make batman look like sane and easy going one in the league you have problems
i'm surprised GA is getting such flack i enjoyed it. it was a simple set up and it worked
I still don't understand how a character whose origin story begins: "After his parents are brutally murdered in front of him...." is ever considered appropriate for children, but whatever.
Personally, I'm intrigued by Action Comics. This is basically a return to golden age Superman (+heat vision). He can't fly, he's not that invulnerable, and he's a crusader for social justice rather than law and order. That's '30s/early 40s Superman right there. By setting Action Comics well before Justice League and Superman (and mentioning that Superman keeps getting more powerful), it lets DC have its cake and eat it too - in Superman and Justice League he's got the full new suit, presumably the whole power package and a calmer temperament. As to the actual issue itself, it's definitely stronger, and much more striking than Justice League #1 was last week. This should have been the lead title of the DCnU in my opinion.
Quote from: Talavar on September 08, 2011, 09:18:28 PM
I still don't understand how a character whose origin story begins: "After his parents are brutally murdered in front of him...." is ever considered appropriate for children, but whatever.
Personally, I'm intrigued by Action Comics. This is basically a return to golden age Superman (+heat vision). He can't fly, he's not that invulnerable, and he's a crusader for social justice rather than law and order. That's '30s/early 40s Superman right there. By setting Action Comics well before Justice League and Superman (and mentioning that Superman keeps getting more powerful), it lets DC have its cake and eat it too - in Superman and Justice League he's got the full new suit, presumably the whole power package and a calmer temperament. As to the actual issue itself, it's definitely stronger, and much more striking than Justice League #1 was last week. This should have been the lead title of the DCnU in my opinion.
I ran across an excerpt of the Action Comics on line within the last day or so, and I must say the 8 or so pages I saw were really cool. I like the "faster than a speeding bullet, leap tall buildings" reset on his powers, loved his "sticking up for the little guy" attitude and the kind of classic rough and tumble approach to getting the bad guys to talk. I'm not super wild about the home made costume look though. I'd definitely pick this one up!
I don't think this is the one I was reading, but it's the same series of pages: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/02/action-comics-1-preview-morrison-morales/
Morrison said in a interview he wanted the younger version of Superman to be kinda of brash and overconfident, but it will change when he "grows up". And I agree with Talavar, the "New" Superman is a return to his original roots as a super strong "Robin Hood", In the 40's Supes menaced crooked politicians and tycoons to make them confess their crimes. He was an outlaw, because he broke laws while fighting for his view of "social justice". And he killed, a lot...
Since this version of Superman was barely saw in the last 60 years (outsides of reprints and Earth 2 stories) I believe some people won't be crazy about the new version. Me? I always liked both versions, the perfect good guy from the Silver Age and the Social Avenger form the 40's, so Action is the only DCNU title I'm looking forward.
Y'know, I went ahead and read Action Comics for myself... and I have to say, personally I rather enjoyed it. Yes he's a bit rougher than we'd normally expect, but I feel like it's more him not really knowing how far to go with everything yet. It's not like he's burning people's faces off here, he's just beating bad guys up and showing off his powers.
It may not be the book Superman fans expected, but it's exactly what Morrison said it was going to be... a younger Superman with a bit less experience and finesse than the decade+ experience of modern day Superman. And I for one, am eager for issue 2.
I guess that is my problem with Action Comics - I'm use to this noble hero to superhero type of Superman and in his place I have this thug (he was a little too punchy for my taste in JLA as well). I guess the nobleness I associate with him isn't popular. Oh well.
Quotei'm surprised GA is getting such flack i enjoyed it. it was a simple set up and it worked
No flack on my part, though it wasn't what I hoped for, I did still enjoy it.
As for Action Comics, finances being what they are, I had to pick and choose what I wanted, and AC just didn't make the cut.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 09, 2011, 12:12:54 AM
I guess that is my problem with Action Comics - I'm use to this noble hero to superhero type of Superman and in his place I have this thug (he was a little too punchy for my taste in JLA as well). I guess the nobleness I associate with him isn't popular. Oh well.
You know, I agree that Superman's nobility is a core part of who he is, but what I actually like about Action is I feel like we'll see him grow into that person throughout the course of the book... Instead of having this guy who shows up and is just born effing perfect, here's a guy who is trying to do the right thing and is still working the bugs out. Keep in mind, we haven't seen the modern-day Superman yet... in both Action and JL he's supposed to be fairly new to everything. Hal wasn't exactly respectable in JL either, as I recall.
If I honestly felt like this was going to be how Superman was forever, I wouldn't have enjoyed it. But to me, the fact that he wasn't perfect out of the gate makes the end product MORE noble because he earned the maturity and skills he later has.
My reboot book for this week was Justice League International. It was decent but nothing special. In many ways it's the complete opposite of Justice League in that pace is faster and the team is all introduced in the same issue.
I flirted with picking up both Batgirl and Detective Comics but decided against it.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 08, 2011, 06:02:00 AMSuperman is a complete arsehole and Batman is completely unsuitable for kids (something I thought DC would want to capture).
I don't think DC has shown any real interest in that.
Quote from: Podmark on September 09, 2011, 03:02:45 AM
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 08, 2011, 06:02:00 AMSuperman is a complete arsehole and Batman is completely unsuitable for kids (something I thought DC would want to capture).
I don't think DC has shown any real interest in that.
Exactly why this won't work in the long run. Unless you change the perceptions of who comics are for, you'll never build a big market. You can't bring in teenagers and older folks well enough, unless you start changing that perception, and the way to do that is to start younger.
Action Comics got some good reviews, but looks like Batgirl wasn't so well received.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=34302
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/best-shots-extra-action-comics-batgirl-110907.html
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 09, 2011, 12:12:54 AM
I guess that is my problem with Action Comics - I'm use to this noble hero to superhero type of Superman and in his place I have this thug (he was a little too punchy for my taste in JLA as well). I guess the nobleness I associate with him isn't popular. Oh well.
i don't think its the noble aspect of the character they're trying to avoid. i believe its the whiter than whiter perfect boyscout aura the character has.
personally i could never read a superman comic for this reason, i can read him in team books but i just could never get behind this multi powered god aspect dc had with him while i was growing up
AA, you might be interested in this. Apparently Caitlin Fairchild will be part of the Superboy cast (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/12/the-mystery-redhead-in-superboy-1-revealed/).
Quote from: Podmark on September 13, 2011, 12:06:37 AM
AA, you might be interested in this. Apparently Caitlin Fairchild will be part of the Superboy cast (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/12/the-mystery-redhead-in-superboy-1-revealed/).
It does! Also it seems so random in the way they are throwing the Wildstorm U into DCNU proper.
man, just got off the phome with the local comic book store and was told that deathstroke is already sold out. what a bummer.
I am sure some of the storis will be great... but... really not interested on the reboot.. DC should move forward, with thigns we like and those we didn't... Important things like what they do with Oracle really made the decision for me..
I hope they are forced to return to normal continuity after a year...
Ok...so I just read Superboy and it was like Kyle XY doing his best X-23 impression. Also there will never be any class in school where the answer to a question will be "2300 A.M. Mars Standard Time According To The Universal Chronoal Chart Established By Salvator Grotto in 1856...". Also there is no such person as "Salvator Grotto". I'm really annoyed that Scott Lobdell thinks telekinesis (tactile or otherwise) somehow equals telepathy (empathy?). Furthermore Fairchild should not be here because I'm guessing N.O.W.H.E.R.E. (a really 1990s ominous evil organized name) will also create Gen-Actives (has already with Grifter?). This was just a straight up hot mess and it might as well be a completely new character. It's a shame Connor Kent had to die for the sins of the DCNU.
Also cognitive amnesia as your cover story? Really? This comic is just...
Also asking "whose memories are these?" when you know he's at least half-Superman is just bad writing.
From what you've said, AA, then I'm sure I'd be disappointed by these developments as well. Sad.
It wouldn't be that bad if they didn't say Connor was still Connor because he's really not. He's "a" Superboy but he is certainly not Connor Kent. And Lobdell referring to Connor as a thug over and over in interview proves to me he has NEVER read a recent Superboy comic or he wouldn't be trying to shoehorn these terribly 90s superhero archetypes into this comic. Seriously all this is missing is Liefeld's art and a million of useless utility pouches.
Demon Knights was by far the best comics I've read from this new DCNU. It's like Game of Thrones but with familiar faces. I could easily see this existing in the old DC and being a really interesting look at superheroics before there were superheroes.
OK, so I've caught up on the books I picked up from last week. So far, Animal Man has been the best, and surprisingly one of the most accessible to new readers. I really liked the first page "interview" that established that he's mostly retired as a hero, now splitting his time between a film career and animal rights activism. Art is a bit rough for me, but it works for the style and mood of the comic. This book is really not a "superhero" story, but more of a horror story featuring a guy in a costume. Really good.
Green Arrow is answers the question "What if Steve Jobs was a costumed vigilante?" And unfortunately, it doesn't answer it particularly well. Dan Jurgens does a good job on art, but the story is just not there. And I miss the crazy goatee. I give it 20 issues before cancellation.
Static Shock is the closest DC will ever get to a Spider-Man comic. It was great until the last page, which made me groan a bit. Might need to read Wikipedia before picking it up, because there are a couple of bits that need explaining for new readers. Glad to see Hardware, the Milestone Comics' version of Iron Man make an appearance.
Swamp Thing was great, but ties very closely to previous stories in Brightest Day and BD: The Search For Swamp Thing, as well as hints at the amazing Alan Moore run, which is fine but may be too much reading for new fans. Yanick Paquette's art is superb, by far the best of last week.
Hawk & Dove, on the other hand, is a steaming pile of dren. Which is a shame because I enjoy the characters. Of all the Rob Liefeld comics, this is the Rob Liefeldiest. Terrible, terrible art, bad story, I give it 6 - 12 issues.
Batwing was OK but forgettable. Not gonna last long. OMAC was great if you love the art of Jack Kirby (which I do), and I can take or leave Stormwatch as of the first issue.
I want to read Action, Detective, and Justice League International, but I have to wait until the girlfriend finishes them (we've split up the new books between our two pull lists to cut down on spending and overlapping in our longboxes).
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 14, 2011, 05:58:03 PMAnd Lobdell referring to Connor as a thug over and over in interview proves to me he has NEVER read a recent Superboy comic or he wouldn't be trying to shoehorn these terribly 90s superhero archetypes into this comic.
The interview I read where he called Connor a thug he was only referring to the Young Justice cartoon version of the character. And that version is quite different than the comic part (not sure I'd call him a thug though).
I read Superboy and I actually quite liked it. I went in with the mind set that this was a new series with a new Superboy, and I think that helps. The whole mind in his whole body is weird, but the art was kinda nice. I'll definitely read the next few issues.
ok upon reading batman and robin and the GL and RL books
seems the whole death and return of bruce still happened as did the war of the GLs. so your telling me this all happens in the 5 years that jla started and after action comics but then when does detective comics come into it and i've gone cross eyed
Apparently, the Wall is now the Stick (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/14/amanda-waller-skinny-thin-reboot/)
:doh:
Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 15, 2011, 01:04:11 PM
Apparently, the Wall is now the Stick (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/14/amanda-waller-skinny-thin-reboot/)
:doh:
So you can have as much diversity as long as the women are all a size 0? That's nice DCNU.
The animated .gif reactions made the Amanda Waller changes worth it.
You know, I'm with Pod, I kinda liked Superboy. My only beef is teenage Rose Wilson = Plato. WTF?
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 15, 2011, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 15, 2011, 01:04:11 PM
Apparently, the Wall is now the Stick (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/14/amanda-waller-skinny-thin-reboot/)
:doh:
So you can have as much diversity as long as the women are all a size 0? That's nice DCNU.
That is a shame.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 15, 2011, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 15, 2011, 01:04:11 PM
Apparently, the Wall is now the Stick (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/14/amanda-waller-skinny-thin-reboot/)
:doh:
So you can have as much diversity as long as the women are all a size 0? That's nice DCNU.
I can't take her serious now. You know DC, there are big people in the world and ink is not that expensive....
the rumour flying around is she's based on angela bassett's look due to the gl movie
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on September 15, 2011, 08:28:01 PM
the rumour flying around is she's based on angela bassett's look due to the gl movie
Like what Marvel did with Nick Fury & Samuel Jackson
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on September 15, 2011, 08:28:01 PM
the rumour flying around is she's based on angela bassett's look due to the gl movie
So... what you're saying is, instead of it being some bizarre dumb ploy at making all females look hot and attract new readers, it's an even dumber ploy at attracting fans of a movie that very few non-fans really liked? (Just saying... I personally thought it was ok, but any non-comic readers I've talked to hated it)
Quote from: JeyNyce on September 15, 2011, 08:30:51 PM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on September 15, 2011, 08:28:01 PM
the rumour flying around is she's based on angela bassett's look due to the gl movie
Like what Marvel did with Nick Fury & Samuel Jackson
The reverse of that, actually - Ultimate Nick Fury was made to look like Samuel Jackson long before Samuel Jackson was cast as Nick Fury.
and Ultimate Nick Fury didn't even look like Sam Jackson on his first few appearances. He gradually morphed into that, and they got permission from Sam Jackson to basically use his likeness.
Pod and Murs you guys liked Superboy? It just rubs me the wrong way because I've read all this stuff saying "he's still that guy, only reverse engineered" whatever that means and I got this completely new Superboy. But to be fair I had the same feelings when they shoved Linda Danvers into hell to make way for Kara Zor-El and her elongated torso.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 16, 2011, 12:30:52 AM
Pod and Murs you guys liked Superboy? It just rubs me the wrong way because I've read all this stuff saying "he's still that guy, only reverse engineered" whatever that means and I got this completely new Superboy. But to be fair I had the same feelings when they shoved Linda Danvers into hell to make way for Kara Zor-El and her elongated torso.
I guess I view the DCNU as an "Ultimates" sorta thing. Even though that isn't the case. So, I'm not too tied into expecting these versions to be like their original counterparts in any form rather than name. Other than Rose Wilson being a little too insightful, I did like Superboy. Not in my top 5 of the DCNU so far, but I'll pick up the next issue for sure.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 14, 2011, 05:43:46 PM
Also cognitive amnesia as your cover story? Really? This comic is just...
Hmm... I wasn't aware there were other kinds of amnesia besides cognitive.
my top 5 DCNU books so far...
1. Animal Man
2. Frankenstein Agent of S.H.A.D.E.
3. Action Comics
4. Batwoman
5. Hard to choose.... Swamp Thing, Superboy, or Batman and Robin
Other than those seven books I'll pick up second issues of OMAC, Demon Knights and Detective Comics...Maybe Mister Terrific too - but I think im getting my sci-fi fix with superboy and omac
just a note if you are a fan of classic teen titans or starfire stay the hell away from red hood and the outlaws. you have been warned
So yeah stay away from Red Hood and The Outlaws if you ever cared about the previous depictions of Starfire though it was an OK read...you know if you don't mind not knowing what is going on or why certain people are acting like...yeah...
Supergirl was ok. Wonder Woman was actually really good though. I got the horror feel and I really did enjoy the art more than I thought I would.
Captain Atom was pretty decent, but it's going the way of Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen, which I'm not sure will work in the main DCU. GL Corps is a good read as well. If it weren't for Stafire's change in character in Red Hood & the Outlaws, I would really liked it. As it stands, it's OK I guess.
if Captain Atom is going "Dr. Manhattan" that's full circle. Because Alan Moore wanted to use the Charlton heroes for Watchmen. Captain Atom became Dr. Manhattan.
Batman was quite good, and I really liked Capullo's art. There's a couple of neat twists and an interesting mystery starting up. Thanks to Murs for recommending it.
Quote from: Podmark on September 23, 2011, 12:18:41 AM
Batman was quite good, and I really liked Capullo's art. There's a couple of neat twists and an interesting mystery starting up. Thanks to Murs for recommending it.
Oh cool Pod, glad you liked it. I haven't gotten to it yet. A "save the best for last" sorta thing. Did you happen to check out Scott Snyder's 10(?) issues on Detective Comics too?
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on September 21, 2011, 05:42:12 PM
just a note if you are a fan of classic teen titans or starfire stay the hell away from red hood and the outlaws. you have been warned
I thought Red Hood and the Outlaws was pretty good. I have no problem with Starfire's changes/retcons.
Quote from: Thunder on September 22, 2011, 03:51:43 PM
if Captain Atom is going "Dr. Manhattan" that's full circle. Because Alan Moore wanted to use the Charlton heroes for Watchmen. Captain Atom became Dr. Manhattan.
And people complain that comics are too self-referential...
Obviously, you don't have an issue with Starfire's changes, Murs. That's a big ol' duh. Buuuuut, someone does:
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook)
QuoteYesterday, two new comic books from the "New 52" relaunch of DC Comics provoked some online controversy: Catwoman and Red Hood and the Outlaws. They were controversial in particular because of the way they depicted women, notably with the aggressively fanfictiony on-panel sex between Batman and Catwoman, and Starfire's transformation into a promiscuous tabula rasa who can't even remember the names of the men she sleeps with, and seeks out emotionless sex with both of the two male main characters while they essentially high five about it.
Since pointing out my issues with Starfire yesterday, I have received numerous e-mails -- from men -- accusing me of slut-shaming. Since there are a lot of people who don't understand the sexual dynamics that are in play here both creatively and culturally, I'd like to dissect this a little bit and explain why these scenes don't support sexually liberated women; they undermine them, and why after nearly 20 years of reading superhero books, these may finally have been the comics that broke me.
I really was not expecting Catwoman to be Batman %^$#buddy. I was hoping for a strong Selina on her own adventures but whatever I'm not picking up the title. As for Starfire, too many younger people identify her with this cute, bubbly persona and now she's a forgetful spring break whore. I mean she's always been flirty and sexual but this is just ridiculous.
Ahh...thanks guys. I was feeling some uncertainty about continuing to avoid DC despite their reboot. I kept hearing things that I sounded pretty decent, but all of this reminds me that these books continue to embrace the reasons I don't read mainstream comics. Now I'm not conflicted anymore.
I agree with some of the points in that article, except for some about the art - men and women aren't treated that differently: both have ridiculous physiques crammed into skin-tight outfits. She brings up the ridiculous recent Star Sapphire costume, and a fan-concept drawing for a male version to point out the difference - except Hal Jordan is already drawn as if he's basically naked as well. His bulging muscles are just coloured differently.
I also don't think Catwoman and Starfire are being depicted in the same way. Starfire appears willing to sleep with anyone, anonymously, and not even remember names of people she had slept with. Catwoman has sex with Batman, a pairing with a long history, and he clearly cares about her (he's there to make sure she's all right after her apartment is blown up) - it's not emotionless or anonymous, even if she doesn't know Batman's real name. The author compares it -negatively- to a Spider-man/Black Cat hook-up from some years back, and I really don't see how it's any different, except that the art might be a little more graphic.
To clarify, the author compared Batman/Catwoman's sex scene to that of Spider-man and Black Cat from a YEAR ago. :P. Not having read the issue myself, I can't say, but from the examples presented, not only was the art different, but there was an entirely different tone. That said, comparing Batman/Catwoman to Spider-man/Black Cat (BND edition) is blah to me regardless.
LOL! That Batman/Catwoman scene looks like some porno fan art you'd find on DeviantArt! Hilarious!
Oh DC, your talent searching skills are to be envied.
Quote from: murs47 on September 23, 2011, 04:12:32 AM
Did you happen to check out Scott Snyder's 10(?) issues on Detective Comics too?
Not yet. I may get it in a trade at some point.
Can't say I follow the mainstream comics closely to begin with... although I do try to stay up-to-date on major plot arcs and character developments in the respective universes. But from those links that were posted about Batman, Catwoman, and Starfire, even I have to say I'm really disappointed that the professional comic industry seems to be catering more and more into gross fan fetishes. This reminds me why I pay more attention to the cartoons than the comics, since the writers actually have to focus on story and character development and less on drawing the characters as suggestively as possible in every panel. With all the hype and pressure that DC had riding on this universal reboot, it is very disappointing to see that they have lost most of their credibility in the very first month.
Quote from: Previsionary on September 23, 2011, 03:09:05 PM
Obviously, you don't have an issue with Starfire's changes, Murs. That's a big ol' duh. Buuuuut, someone does:
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/22/starfire-catwoman-sex-superheroine/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook)
Thanks for sharing the link, Previsionary.
http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/23/catwoman-1-comic-sex/ (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/23/catwoman-1-comic-sex/)
Catwoman #1 re-done. I lol'd so many times. Good stuff.
(http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-09-26-math.png)
Ha! Haha, ohh man...that made my entire freaking day. Thanks TUE. I want to print this out and mail it to DC. :thumbup:
The smiling Didio is the perfect final touch for this sad history.
I think we can all agree that the Starfire issue is by far the more egregious of the two. Catwoman has always been a sexualized character - overtly or otherwise. Last week's Catwoman #1, particularly the final image, may be more graphic than it has been portrayed in the past, but it's an issue of gradation rather than major change. Starfire's characterization in Red Hood is a major change however, and one that greatly diminishes the character.
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on September 26, 2011, 10:43:16 PMSpoiler
(http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/2011-09-26-math.png)
Epic Win, indeed!
That was awesome, TUE...And kind of sad.
Dana
So...Teen Titans...
Spoiler
Tim is a super-boy genius collecting information on metas for some unknown reason. Cassie is a thug (ironic given Lobdell's stance on DCAU Superboy) and a thief (she steals relics, cars, you name it). Bart is not only slow-minded but annoying (this is not Impulse or Kid-Flash Bart but some other creature entirely. I have no clue how they are going to shoehorn the being Barry's grandson into this). The series ties heavily to Superboy. This whole issues read just like the issue of Justice League (hero is chased, hero meets other hero, one of them is reluctant, helicopter goes boom, close with an impressive shot of a Kryptonian).
Aquaman...
Spoiler
Funny, heroic, mysterious - a great number one issue.
Superman...
Spoiler
Long, kind of dull despite all of the action, they are playing up this "lonely alien" thing too much. Newspapers are dead, long live newspapers!
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 28, 2011, 06:43:04 PM
So...Teen Titans...
Spoiler
Tim is a super-boy genius collecting information on metas for some unknown reason. Cassie is a thug (ironic given Lobdell's stance on DCAU Superboy) and a thief (she steals relics, cars, you name it). Bart is not only slow-minded but annoying (this is not Impulse or Kid-Flash Bart but some other creature entirely. I have no clue how they are going to shoehorn the being Barry's grandson into this). The series ties heavily to Superboy. This whole issues read just like the issue of Justice League (hero is chased, hero meets other hero, one of them is reluctant, helicopter goes boom, close with an impressive shot of a Kryptonian).
sad :(
Thew "New DC" is getting more and more bad reviews thanks to Catwoman and Red Hood:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/hey-thats-my-cape-catwoman-starfire-110928.html
Meanwhile, DC reactions was this:
" We've heard what's being said about Starfire today and we appreciate the dialogue on this topic.
We encourage people to pay attention to the ratings when picking out any books to read themselves or for their children."
DC needs better PR guys...
Neither DC nor Marvel have been very good with PR as it concerns comics for the past decade.
Further evidence of this: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/09/28/patton-oswalt-says-goodbye-to-dc-comics-over-nielsen-surveys/
Now that all of 52 were released, some of them I enjoyed, others not so much.
My picks:
Action Comics, Aquaman, Batman, Batgirl, Justice League
Rest of the books were on the "meh" side IMO.
Quote from: John Jr. on September 28, 2011, 11:07:02 PM
Thew "New DC" is getting more and more bad reviews thanks to Catwoman and Red Hood:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/hey-thats-my-cape-catwoman-starfire-110928.html
Meanwhile, DC reactions was this:
" We've heard what's being said about Starfire today and we appreciate the dialogue on this topic.
We encourage people to pay attention to the ratings when picking out any books to read themselves or for their children."
DC needs better PR guys...
Who cares about children!? I was offended by the way Starfire was acting and while I can forgive Catwoman (because she has always been a sexual character) - I can not forgive slutty Kori or Suicide Girl Harley Quinn. Next up Batwoman is going to be having lesbian orgies with Flamebird and the Question and Wonder Woman is going to get raped by Zeus before finding out it is her real father or something. Besides Demon Knights and Stormwatch I'm not really impressed by any of the DCNU and I'm actually annoyed I committed to purchasing 3 issue of these terribly written, completely unfamiliar characters.
I really hope the status quo is back by Spring because even though sales are through the roof now, I guarantee month two is going to see a dramatic drop.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 29, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
I really hope the status quo is back by Spring because even though sales are through the roof now, I guarantee month two is going to see a dramatic drop.
While i doubt the status quo will be back in its entirety, because even though sales will see a drop, it won't be worse than it once was (IMO), they could always "adjust" some things that were badly received, like the whole starfire thing. I think the "lady in red" in every 52 has that very purpose.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 29, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
I guarantee month two is going to see a dramatic drop.
Yeah there's definitely going to be a drop. I'm fully expecting we'll be back to normal sales levels within 6 months.
Anyway I read Teen Titans this week and I was quite whelmed, perhaps even a little underwhelmed, overall the book seemed kinda meh. Again like Superboy I've come in knowing that we're dealing with all new versions of these characters so that's not that big a deal to me (yet), however I was watching Tim really closely. The Bat books are like 90% intact so I expect Tim to be mostly in line with his previous appearances. So far i think he's alright, but he did have a few iffy actions. Art ranged from pretty good to just a little Liefeld. I'll pick up the next issue at least.
I think I was most disappointed in how meh it was. I was expecting something that was either really bad or pretty good.
"George Perez Off SUPERMAN Writing Duties as of Issue #7"
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/george-perez-off-superman-110930.html
How many DCNU titles will Giffen write?
Didio decided that never was a "Crisis" event on the "New" DCU:
http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/10/03/dc-comics-crisis-free-since-2011/
Okay, I gotta wonder, did this whole reboot idea come out of a night of drinking and the phrase "wouldn't it be cool if..." Seriously, there are so many logistical things here that are obviously not planned or thought out, and for a company-wide reboot/reset/whatever-the-heck-they're-calling-it, that's not good or professional.
EDIT: for the record, I was hoping for the best out of the DCnU, even considering using it as a jumping on point as a lapsed reader, but geez... there have been so many screwups and mistakes in just the media/pr portion of it alone. As for the books themselves, there are a few I was a little interested in, but many more that just made me go :banghead:. Don't even get me started on "Diversity".
Quote from: Glitch Girl on October 04, 2011, 03:39:05 PM
EDIT: for the record, I was hoping for the best out of the DCnU, even considering using it as a jumping on point as a lapsed reader, but geez... there have been so many screwups and mistakes in just the media/pr portion of it alone. As for the books themselves, there are a few I was a little interested in, but many more that just made me go :banghead:. Don't even get me started on "Diversity".
i was hoping to be able to jump back into comics with this, at least start a 2 0r 3 book pull, but not sure if its going to happpen.
Of the titles that I checked out, I'll be starting a pull for:
Hawk and Dove (And I still don't care for Liefield)
The FLash
Green Arrow
Nightwing
Man, it has been years since I've had a pull list. My wife is going to kill me. :P
Lobdell about the Starfire controversy:
" So to clear a couple things up, I asked if Starfire was being serious or sarcastic about not remembering the Titans:
Kory was definitely being evasive/sarcastic because she did NOT want to talk about her past with them and issues that will come up later in the series. She does not have a memory of 'a goldfish' as some people have been saying 'round the 'net.
Also, Jason was lying to Roy about certain implications he made in the first issue to Roy about Kory. I won't say what exactly because I don't want to spoil the next issue, especially since it's not out yet."
Then what was with her inner dialogue?
That sounds an awful lot like Lobdell trying to backpeddle and "fix" his mistakes with Starfire to me.
men of war is really good. maybe the best of 52 so far, in my opinion.
http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/new-52-men-of-war/ (http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/new-52-men-of-war/)
it is a legacy character. in that a character wasn't rebooted and forced to be young and forget most things he has done. someone did it right.
I have been pleasantly surprised regarding some of the New DC line.
Wonder Woman really impressed me at how it was truly a reboot with an interesting take on Greek mythology.
Batwing has been interesting. The artwork is absolutely beautiful. I hope this book lasts.
Justice League Dark has characters I was not expecting to see (DC's Enchantress FTW!) and I like where the story is heading.
Legion of Super-Heroes thankfully included all those Legion Academy students, so it's great to have some fresh blood on the team.
Suicide Squad could be good, I'd have to read more of it. I really like Harley Quinn's design.
Voodoo really surprised me. Great first issue, really looking forward to where it's leading.
I'll be picking up both Justice League and Justice League International, and maybe Action Comics. (I like this new take on Superman).
Aquaman had a very solid first issue, too. I just hope that continues with momentum
Quote from: laughing paradox on October 06, 2011, 07:22:12 PM
I really like Harley Quinn's design.
seriously stop sniffing the magic markers
Hmmm...both.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on October 06, 2011, 11:47:05 PM
Quote from: murs47 on October 06, 2011, 10:40:47 PM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on October 06, 2011, 10:16:21 PM
Quote from: laughing paradox on October 06, 2011, 07:22:12 PM
I really like Harley Quinn's design.
seriously stop sniffing the magic markers
I really like it too.
Harley's costume or sniffing magic markers? :P
Hold on one second. Cyber Burn, i know you ain't picking on my friend... my associate... my project... my charity... on Murs! That's rude.
Quote from: murs47 on October 07, 2011, 04:42:05 AM
Hmmm...both.
Amen, bud.
What's so wrong with Harley Quinn's costume and sniffing toxic fumes?
Besides, it can always be worse. She could be wearing a fur bikini. ;)
I can't believe I actually bought any new DC books, but I did buy the first two issues of OMAC and I like it quite a bit. Its rated "T" so it is pretty safe.
Thus far, the only DCnU book I'm really enjoying is Action Comics. I'm in for a couple more issues of a few; let's see if they can turn it around.
I've been a long-time lapsed comic reader, but between moving to a new house down the street from a comic shop and the whole DCnU initiative I'm officially buying comics on a weekly basis again! And I am SO HAPPY about that! :D
My pull list for this month includes:
Edit: Spoilerized due to lengthSpoiler
-Action Comics: this is just a straight up fun adventure comic. Really liking the humor, intrigue and action. Superman's characterization here is FAR more interesting than what's happening in Superman. I was happy to see that #2 kept up the pace.
-Animal Man: I'll be honest, I'm mostly reading this one because of all the buzz happening. After two issues, I can definitely say that I think it's interesting, and I think the guys working on it are VERY talented but I'm not sure whether I'm enjoying it or not. There's too much weird and not enough fun in this one for me and, honestly, might be getting dropped after next month...
-Aquaman: Really really liked this one. Aquaman's characterization was a ton of fun and I think there's great possibility for intrigue and action here.
-Batgirl: We'll see how #2 goes, but #1 just didn't grab me as much as I had hoped. It felt... bland. And with so many other Bat-Books on my list it'll need to work harder to earn my readership. I'm giving this one till #3.
-Batman: Oh man. One of my favorites of the New 52 so far. Just a freakin' blast. THIS is what superhero comics is all about. Adventure, excitement, some mystery, some great subtle humor.. Also, I love me that art. Really looking forward to #2.
-Batman & Robin: Not quite as good as Batman, but still enjoyable. Damian and Bruce's relationship isn't quite as great as Dick and Damian's, but I'm optimistic that it'll turn around.
-Batwoman: Like Animal Man, I picked this one up because of all the buzz. And, like Animal Man, I think that the creative team is really talented, but.. sigh.. it's just not grabbing me. The panel layouts were great, but the art felt a little... stiff to me. I guess maybe I'm just not big on the supernatural thing..? Giving this one till #3 to prove itself.
-Blue Beetle: Issue #1 was sadly bland but I'm sticking with this one because I frickin' love Jaime Reyes. I'm optimistic that it'll turn around and hopefully make for some madcap hijinks and space battles.
-Demon Knights: I really wanted to like this one more than I did. I'm sticking with it for now because it seems like it has the opportunity to be really fun, but none of the characters are grabbing me yet as much as I'd like. I'm giving it till #3.
-The Flash: Like Batman, this is, in my opinion, what superhero comics are all about. Buccaletto and Manapul did fantastic work here. I actually cared about Barry, the characters are all really nuanced and the art is just stunning.
-Frankenstein: Agent of SHADE: This one was so much fun! I initially dismissed it, thinking it would just be weird, but then I gave #1 a shot. Boy, am I glad I did because this was definitely one of my favorites of the month. Wacky, weird adventures ahoy!
-The Fury of Firestorm: Golly. This one was, uh, a little muddy, huh? One of the ones dangerously close to being cut on my list... I just didn't like any of the characters, the new shtick of 2 (3?) Firestorms was weird, and the opening with brutal terrorists was just weird...
-Green Lantern: Loved Sinestro's absolute disdain for being a GL again and I loved Hal being unable to adjust to normal life. Looking forward to seeing where it goes!
-Green Lantern Corps: I love the whole Green Lantern mythos, so I'm psyched to get some more verdant goodness in my life, but this one definitely wasn't as good as Green Lantern. That being said, Guy and John have the potential for great character work playing off of each other, so I'm tentatively letting this one stay on my list.
-Green Lantern: New Guardians: Oof. I love what's being promised down the line, but this first issue was a MESS. I love Kyle Rayner, so for his sake it gets to stay on my list.. for now.
-Grifter: Aie. This issue was just boring, boring, boring. Seriously, why should I care about this character? I met Nathan Edmonson and he promised that good stuff is coming, so Cole Cash gets one more chance. But honestly, if it continues at this pace I'm chucking this snore-fest.
-Justice League: I'm buying this one for no other reason than that it's billed as the 'cornerstone of the DCnU.' The first issue was pretty mediocre. I hope it picks up fast.
-Justice League International: Bought #1 because the previews teased the possibility of Plastic Man. Even so, I'm sticking around for the wacky sitcom-like character dynamics. Rocket Red promises to hopefully be a standout character.
-Mister Terrific: Picked this one up on a whim and thought it was pretty great. Fun character, great vibe. Love the James Bondian feel it gives off and I LOVED that it threw you right into the action. Waaaay too many 'origin books' this past month that only have the character in costume on the last page. (I'm looking at you, Blue Beetle, Grifter and Firestorm...) We'll see how #2 does.
-Nightwing: One of my favorites. Kyle Higgins obviously gets Nightwing. Looking forward to seeing where it goes.
-Penguin: Pain and Prejudice: Picked it up on a complete whim. Really great writing paired with a delightfully sinister tone - loved #1.
-Red Lanterns: Ehhh it's been kind of boring so far. #3 promises to be where the team starts forming and some actual stuff starts, y'know, happening. We'll see.
-Static Shock: Was not expecting to like this one so much, but he's a great character! Fun writing, good art.. Thumbs up from me!
-Stormwatch: Oh man. I really really want to like this one. I really do. But... I haven't been. It's been confusing and convoluted and weirdly paced and I have no idea who any of the characters are. This one stays for now, but it's on thin ice..
-Superboy: Actually quite enjoyed this. Really intrigued by the super sci-fi angle they're taking and I'm looking forward to when Conner gets out into the real world.
-Superman: Eww. Did not like this at all. Poorly written, terribly paced and with really poor characterization of Superman. I'm keeping this one on my pull list but I don't really know why.
-Swamp Thing: Loved the first two issues and it seems like things are only picking up from there. Wonderfully weird adventures seem to be in store and I'm really liking the character!
-Teen Titans: Oh my dear Teen Titans, what have they done to you? I was obsessed with Impulse and Young Justice back in the day, and then I followed the YJ gang into Teen Titans for one of my favorite comic runs in a long time. This though.... Hm. I'm hanging on because I love Bart Allen, but I'm worried this is going to be a relationship that ends up just leaving me hurt...
-Wonder Woman: Goodness I enjoyed this one far more than I thought! Picked this one up last minute and it was all kinds of good. Mysterious, exciting, dark and dangerous... Consider me a brand new Wonder Woman fan.
Already cut:
-
Red Hood & The Outlaws: Ugh. UGH. As I said above, absolutely adore the Teen Titans. Screw everything about this book. Gross gross gross.
Anyhow. Those are my pulls so far. Obviously, for the sake of my bank account I'm hoping I can begin to cut down my list a bit over the coming months. :blink:
In any case, it has been so awesome getting back into comics again.
:cardmaster
Good to see ya on the boards CM :thumbup:
Its been a long time.
Gotta agree with ya,I was against the whole reboot at 1st,then decided to go in with an open mind and ended up really liking some of these.
Flash was very impressive and I actually liked Teen Titans especially Bart being impulsive in the opening sequence.
Green Lantern was good but I didn't care for New Guardians,Red Lanterns or GL corps which is disappointing cause I was really looking forward to Red Lanterns.The change from Rage to Vengeance just doesn't work for me.
So far,I like the new 52.........That said my wife and I will NOT buy any book starring this Crappily designed knock off that is supposed to be Harley Quinn :angry:
DC takes another hit. :unsure:
http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/10/07/barnes-nobles-pull-100-dc-titles-in-protest-of-digital-exclusivity/
QuoteWe are disappointed that Barnes & Noble has made the decision to remove these books off their shelves and make them unavailable to their customers.
DC Entertainment will continue to make our content available to our fans and new readers through multiple distribution channels including locally-owned comic book retailers, independent bookstores, other bookstore chains and other widespread means such as online through Amazon and through our apps on iOS and select Android powered devices as well as new and exciting devices going forward.
Quote from: Bloodshadow on October 08, 2011, 01:32:19 AM
Green Lantern was good but I didn't care for New Guardians,Red Lanterns or GL corps which is disappointing cause I was really looking forward to Red Lanterns.The change from Rage to Vengeance just doesn't work for me.
Now for me, I liked the directioin that the Red Lanterns book was going, and of the four Lantern based books, I actually thought that it was the most enjoyable.
Quote from: Previsionary on October 08, 2011, 04:54:20 AM
DC takes another hit. :unsure:
http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/10/07/barnes-nobles-pull-100-dc-titles-in-protest-of-digital-exclusivity/
QuoteWe are disappointed that Barnes & Noble has made the decision to remove these books off their shelves and make them unavailable to their customers.
DC Entertainment will continue to make our content available to our fans and new readers through multiple distribution channels including locally-owned comic book retailers, independent bookstores, other bookstore chains and other widespread means such as online through Amazon and through our apps on iOS and select Android powered devices as well as new and exciting devices going forward.
Is it really a hit though? Barnes and Noble are pulling them in response to DC's exclusive digital deal with Amazon & it's ridiculously cheap tablet.
"Andy Kubert Joins Grant Morrison on ACTION COMICS in 2012
DC announced Sunday on their official publicity blog The Source that Andy Kubert is illustrating Action Comics #5 and #6.
The issues, written by regular series writer Grant Morrison, will guest star the Legion of Super-Heroes. DC hints that Krypto, whose New 52 status had been unclear, will also make an appearance. "
More here:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/action-comics-andy-kubert-111010.html
Morrison said in a convention the Legion and Superman still have a connection, let's see how he'll explain it.
EDIT:
WONDER WOMAN Gets a NEW 52 Origin, Parent in November
Spoiler
As Monday on DC's official publicity blog The Source, in the current continuity, Wonder Woman's mother is Hippolyta and father is Zeus. This is a significant change to the character's history, who traditionally has never had a father figure and was said to be formed from mystical clay.
More here:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/wonder-woman-new-origin-111010.html
Demon Knights continues to be my favorite comic out of the new 52. This could easily have been pre-dcnu but whatevez.
Superboy #2...
Spoiler
The weapon aka Superboy killed all of the scientists who were in the first issue with the exception of "Red". "Red's" Gen-factor or whatever activates on command ala She-Hulk. Rose is the only good part of this comic. NOWHERE is going to send Superboy (who spoke Kryptonian) after the Teen Titans. Superboy does a telekinetic blackhole and can now has x-ray vision through Tactile Telekinesis (maybe Superman's powers are TK similar to the Post-Crisis reboot). All and all I felt meh about this comic still.
thanks for the synopsis Cardmaster.
I'm with you, AA, Demon Knights was great! Loving the chemistry of the team. Speaking of which... I've also really been loving Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. #1 was just straight-up awesome and issue #2 did not disappoint. Journeys into 'dead space,' crazy backstories, hilariously morbid technology... It's all fantastic. If you like awesome adventure with a healthy dose of weird, you should definitely give this one a try..
Mister Terrific's been good too - Great character with a really neat vibe; the over-the-top SuperScience that this comic barrages you with just makes you want to punch the air and say "F#* yeah science!" :)
Batman and Robin was a little flatter this month, but I still enjoyed it. Superboy, however, went waaay down for me from issue #1. I'm not sure what they're going for in this book, but it may not be for me...
- :cardmaster
ps. Bloodshadow: it's good to see you again too! :)
pps. Cripp: No problem! I apologize for such a lengthy post; I've now put my synopses in spoiler tags for the sake of brevity, haha.
Quote from: Talavar on October 08, 2011, 01:01:20 PM
Quote from: Previsionary on October 08, 2011, 04:54:20 AM
DC takes another hit. :unsure:
http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/10/07/barnes-nobles-pull-100-dc-titles-in-protest-of-digital-exclusivity/ (http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/10/07/barnes-nobles-pull-100-dc-titles-in-protest-of-digital-exclusivity/)
QuoteWe are disappointed that Barnes & Noble has made the decision to remove these books off their shelves and make them unavailable to their customers.
DC Entertainment will continue to make our content available to our fans and new readers through multiple distribution channels including locally-owned comic book retailers, independent bookstores, other bookstore chains and other widespread means such as online through Amazon and through our apps on iOS and select Android powered devices as well as new and exciting devices going forward.
Is it really a hit though? Barnes and Noble are pulling them in response to DC's exclusive digital deal with Amazon & it's ridiculously cheap tablet.
Yes, it's a hit because B&N are doing it out of spite and have effectively removed a portion of DC's audience who may not WANT digital comics and who may not HAVE nearby comic book stores. Speaking of hits, Books-a-Million have followed suit.
http://www.buzzfocus.com/2011/10/15/ereader-war-part-2-books-a-million-follows-barnes-nobles-lead/ (http://www.buzzfocus.com/2011/10/15/ereader-war-part-2-books-a-million-follows-barnes-nobles-lead/)
To me, a stunt like this comes off as a scare tactic. The remaining big chains of book sellers are trying to tell certain companies rather overtly that if you go through with certain deals they do not agree with, they will simply remove your product and risk losing overall sales themselves just to strike back. It's rather sad.
But DC had to expect something like this in signing a digital exclusive with Amazon. It's "not a hit", in that they're precipitating it themselves. They must have decided that gaining digital sales will beat losing physical book store sales.
I think it's entirely reasonable for a brick-and-mortar operation to discontinue a product that is expected to decline.
They're not hurting their bottom line a whole lot. Their other major offline competetor is gone (Borders). They just gained shelf space and no longer need to worry about stocking those particular items in any large quantity. Note that you can still order them... you just can't walk in and grab one off the shelf.
You have to remember that this is also about competition between the Nook and the Kindle. That deal means there will not be graphic novels for the Nook, and that is a big deal for Barnes and Noble.
Exclusivity cuts both ways.
This is just fug. (http://i.newsarama.com/images/TT_Cv5_02.jpg)
Well I quite enjoyed the latest issue of Justice League. It's still a slow place but I found it engaging and the art was excellent.
Batman was also very good. The story is a little slow but the art and characterization is great. Definitely a standout among the New 52.
Surprisingly enough, I'm actually enjoying Hawk and Dove (Minus Liefield's inconsistant art), but that just may be because of my inherant love of the characters.
In a typical "I'm too good for you" fashion Scott Lobdell justified his take on Starfire critizating the criticals...
"Newsarama: Scott, I'm sure you've heard about the negative reaction some fans had to the portrayal of Starfire in Red Hood and the Outlaws #1. Did it surprise you?
Lobdell: It didn't surprise me that there were some people who didn't like it.
What surprised me was that it almost caused the Internet to melt.
Mostly, what has surprised me has been the very vulgar way that people believe they are coming to the defense of Kori: they hurl words like "slut" and "whore" and expressions too disgusting to repeat here that are only used to demean women.
Lets consider an imaginary woman who has more than one or two lovers. Is it fair to label her with dismissive and derogatory language? Because we disagree with the choices she makes, to do what she wants with her own body? Are we still at a place in society where we're going to call a woman — any woman — names that reinforce gender inequality?
The good thing is that the story has gotten people to talk about issues they are passionate about — and that can only ever lead to a better understanding on everyone's part."
This is clearly an attempt at damage control, but I wonder how much heat this can take before DC pulls Lobdell from the book. There's already been a lot of writer/artist shuffling in the New 52; a little more wouldn't surprise me at all.
Quote from: John Jr. on October 20, 2011, 07:58:26 PM
In a typical "I'm too good for you" fashion Scott Lobdell justified his take on Starfire critizating the criticals...
"Newsarama: Scott, I'm sure you've heard about the negative reaction some fans had to the portrayal of Starfire in Red Hood and the Outlaws #1. Did it surprise you?
Lobdell: It didn't surprise me that there were some people who didn't like it.
What surprised me was that it almost caused the Internet to melt.
Mostly, what has surprised me has been the very vulgar way that people believe they are coming to the defense of Kori: they hurl words like "slut" and "whore" and expressions too disgusting to repeat here that are only used to demean women.
Lets consider an imaginary woman who has more than one or two lovers. Is it fair to label her with dismissive and derogatory language? Because we disagree with the choices she makes, to do what she wants with her own body? Are we still at a place in society where we're going to call a woman — any woman — names that reinforce gender inequality?
The good thing is that the story has gotten people to talk about issues they are passionate about — and that can only ever lead to a better understanding on everyone's part."
I read another article with him talking about this and yeah he's OBVIOUSLY trying to cover up his bad writing. He actually compared her alien race to cats and we as "humans" aren't thinking about how "aliens" would actually react. I had to seriously stop reading the article and just close my computer. Also his depiction of Roy is EXTREMELY OOC. It appears Roy did not only lose his child but also his self-confidence and determination as a former sidekick trying to prove himself. Jason Todd is practically a mary sue and can do no wrong and the most amazing person on earth....
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 15, 2011, 01:59:44 PM
Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 15, 2011, 01:04:11 PM
Apparently, the Wall is now the Stick (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/14/amanda-waller-skinny-thin-reboot/)
:doh:
So you can have as much diversity as long as the women are all a size 0? That's nice DCNU.
It was done to make her look like Angela Bettis, who played "The Wall" in <i>Green Lantern</i> and has been offered the rule in the <i>Suicide Squad</i> movie (provided it gets out of development hell). It's not like they randomly decided oh, "Amanda Waller needs to be tall and thin now, just cause."
I don't have a problem with it. YMMV.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on September 29, 2011, 01:29:57 PM
and Wonder Woman is going to get raped by Zeus before finding out it is her real father or something.
Well, you're half right...
I haven't read any of the new 52 issues, and I don't know if I really want to anymore.
I'd love to know what comic writers have against married heroes? I read that with the reboot there is no more Lois and Clark. :doh:
What is it? Do writers have a problem creating conflict with a couple, so they have to keep a hero single? Please.... more like poor writing to me. There is a pitiful handful of heroes that are married.
How much strain would having a loved one constantly risking their life day (or night) after day put on a relationship? Ask the husbands/wives of firefighters, police, or soldiers. Not enough drama, my scaly buttocks. And what about a hero with a secret identity? You know (s)he's going to have fans, admirers, stalkers, etc. And how is that going to impact the home life? Look at celebrities, and the rumors of this person cheating with that one, and think how in the comics world it would play out. There is so much story just on how things would affect a relationship when one person is leading a dual life.
It's just laziness and lack of imagination, imo, that make writers and editors back away from change and want to go back to the 'old status quo'. Then sit back with a thumb in their bum, and wonder why their sales are also in the 'old status quo' of way back when.
But that's just one slightly bitter dragon's thoughts about it.
Reboots are almost always ridiculous. People try too hard. I mean look at these new costumes. Mostly garbage. Lois and Clark not being married? Why not? We know they are a couple. That's ingrained on the culture. Amanda Waller better have the same tough as nails, ready to stand down Batman character she's always had, that's all I am saying.
So, anyway, I haven't read any of it. To be honest, I don't read a lot of mainstream stuff, although what little I read of Morrison's Batman stuff was pretty awesome... I was digging the Batman Inc stuff, but I guess that's gone now. I actually just got around to reading Gotham Central.
Is the new Batwoman series like the one they just did, that's all gothy? And she fights "Alice"? Because I liked that.
I am mostly interested in Animal Man and Swamp Thing with a loose interest on the rest of the "dark" titles. How are these?
Quote from: UnkoMan on December 12, 2011, 12:03:32 AMI was digging the Batman Inc stuff, but I guess that's gone now. I actually just got around to reading Gotham Central.
Is the new Batwoman series like the one they just did, that's all gothy? And she fights "Alice"? Because I liked that.
Batman Inc is coming back, and I expect it will be mostly unchanged.
I believe the new Batwoman series is mostly the same.
Both titles are unique in that they were being produced before the reboot was decided and were integrated into it with little changes. In fact I suspect the limited changes to the Bat books were because of Batman Inc.
The Lois and Clark situation reminds of the same thing with Pete and Mary Jane a few years back with "One More Day". Joe didn't like the marriage, Joe was in charge, Joe gets his way.
Sorry, old rant coming back again.
Animal man/swamp thing and omac/Frankenstein are two pairs of books that are working on developing a cohesive universe. In my opinion they are the top four books, followed by action comics, wonder woman, batman, Aquaman and flash. (in that order) I've dropped all others, but that's still the heftiest dc pull list I've had since johns wrote the flash, jSA and teen titans.
I'm the same wagon as most of you guys, I'm not a fan of the reboot as an option to get the new readers, specially when we had so many of them lately...I'm really liking Action Comics, but I'm ignoring most of the DC line now.
Anyway, this one may make our buddy Benton very happy...
http://www.newsarama.com/php/multimedia/album_view.php?gid=3895&page=35
Quote from: UnkoMan on December 12, 2011, 12:03:32 AM
Reboots are almost always ridiculous. People try too hard. I mean look at these new costumes. Mostly garbage. Lois and Clark not being married? Why not? We know they are a couple. That's ingrained on the culture.
It won't stay that way if everytime that they get close the whole universe gets a reboot.
Quote from: Randomdays on December 12, 2011, 06:20:24 AM
The Lois and Clark situation reminds of the same thing with Pete and Mary Jane a few years back with "One More Day". Joe didn't like the marriage, Joe was in charge, Joe gets his way.
Sorry, old rant coming back again.
That was my point exactly. Not just Lois and Clark, but also Pete and MJ, or Elongated Man and Sue. I just don't understand why it should be so difficult to show a superhero in a long-term marriage/romance. Joey Q said he wanted the drama of Pete being single and dating lots of various women. So he wants him to be Spider-Ho then? :huh:
And what's worse with DC, is if they wanted to do a Jim Lee-verse, they have a whole frigging multiverse they just brought back they could have done it in, and left the current universe alone. And
PSSSSTTTTT DC, Marvel tried this stunt a few years ago with a lil event called 'Heroes Reborn'. I guess what they say is true, those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
Quote from: Night Dragon on December 21, 2011, 07:58:31 AM
Quote from: Randomdays on December 12, 2011, 06:20:24 AM
The Lois and Clark situation reminds of the same thing with Pete and Mary Jane a few years back with "One More Day". Joe didn't like the marriage, Joe was in charge, Joe gets his way.
Sorry, old rant coming back again.
That was my point exactly. Not just Lois and Clark, but also Pete and MJ, or Elongated Man and Sue. I just don't understand why it should be so difficult to show a superhero in a long-term marriage/romance. Joey Q said he wanted the drama of Pete being single and dating lots of various women. So he wants him to be Spider-Ho then? :huh:
It wasn't just Joe Q that wanted this, though he took the brunt. Many creators came out and supported him on the MJ/Pete situation and cited how people were against the marriage in the first place. Regardless, Peter wasn't even a spider-ho because he wasn't single that long. He had his eye on a science geek almost immediately, chased after her, and eventually began dating her. I mean, yeah, that Black Cat retread happened, and he was being sought after by Lily/Menace for evil purposes, but Peter essentially went from one very solid relationship into another relationship with the drama of "keeping secrets." Another retread.
I was against this DC reboot from the beginning because I thought it was stupid. If anything, both DC and Marvel could learn a lesson form the past and improve their writing/art, simplify their stories, and stop relying on decompression so much and actually, you know, INVEST in some of their status quos before resetting everything once again with an event, mini-reboot, or w/e it is DC has now because it's not a true reboot... but more of a mix between a relaunch and a reset, as some old continuity is still floating about. I'm also not sure why comic companies think relaunching or starting over will get new readers. No. You'll get short-term, new readers who'll most likely abandon the project almost immediately while your long term fans get burned yet again. If you want new readers, then you not only need to have something easily accessible to them, but you need to seek them out with quality and not gimmicks. It also helps to advertise to them and not just to the people who are ALREADY your fans. But the thing that'd help the most is if companies would stop taking advantage of the fans they do have, treasure them a little more, and give them something to talk about positively every once in a while. I'd definitely be more inclined to check out books and such from a company that treats their fans as a vital part of the system as opposed to the way certain companies (more so creators and editors) do so now. That's just me.
Quote from: Previsionary on December 21, 2011, 02:07:25 PM
I was against this DC reboot from the beginning because I thought it was stupid. If anything, both DC and Marvel could learn a lesson form the past and improve their writing/art, simplify their stories, and stop relying on decompression so much and actually, you know, INVEST in some of their status quos before resetting everything once again with an event, mini-reboot, or w/e it is DC has now because it's not a true reboot... but more of a mix between a relaunch and a reset, as some old continuity is still floating about. I'm also not sure why comic companies think relaunching or starting over will get new readers. No. You'll get short-term, new readers who'll most likely abandon the project almost immediately while your long term fans get burned yet again. If you want new readers, then you not only need to have something easily accessible to them, but you need to seek them out with quality and not gimmicks. It also helps to advertise to them and not just to the people who are ALREADY your fans. But the thing that'd help the most is if companies would stop taking advantage of the fans they do have, treasure them a little more, and give them something to talk about positively every once in a while. I'd definitely be more inclined to check out books and such from a company that treats their fans as a vital part of the system as opposed to the way certain companies (more so creators and editors) do so now. That's just me.
Nope. Isn't just you, I have exactly the same opinion and I made a very similar post months ago at TOF. But DC writers and editors are always giving speeches about how the readers "don't own the characters" or how they don't "get it" (just read Scott Lobdell's recent interview about the Starfire fiasco).
still don't understand all of the negativity surrounding the new 52.
there are still 60+ years of comics stories for you to read.
the beauty of these characters is that they aren't real and continuity doesn't really matter.
there are enough stories now that readers can develop their own continuity in their heads, and there are enough stories to further populate those continuities.
Sure they aren't making Lois and Clark married stories now, but that doesn't mean they never will again. I'm sure it will only be a matter of time before some creators will make a miniseries or side project where they are married. and if not in the comic medium, then maybe in movies, tv or video games.
I think this is the key to why the ultimate universe is so great in marvel, it offers an alternative continuity with different possibilities.
and really, the current spidey series has some of the best storytelling i've ever read. re-reading slott's work on Spidey lately.... dang, just makes me realize how much i love comics (just try not to cry while reading the issues where Spidey joins the FF, or when Peter Parker helps reform The Magnetic Man issue 662 i think.)
DM,
Some people are upset because their favorite characters were retconned away, changed beyond recognition (Superboy/Conner)or just disappeared (Wally West). Others, like myself are tired of the same old "Everything old is new" trick. The only DCNU title I'm still reading is Action Comics, because it's a really different take on Superman. I tried to follow JLA, Titans, Superboy and some others, but most of them are too much form and too little substance IMHO. But, like you said we have the older comics and continuities, I'll just join other former readers and forget about new comics (except 1 or 2, like Action and Captain America & Bucky).
I don't think it's hard to understand why some people might have an issue with the new universe. I mean, it's not a complex issue. It's pretty simple. Some characters didn't fair well in the change. Some creators couldn't work magic with characters that were already fine and loved. Some books didn't need to be relaunched or rebooted or whatever. DC effectively cut ties with some of their reader base to try an experiment that a good chunk of their fans might not actually gel with. What's really hard to understand about that? You may not see it similarly, but that's a legitimate stance to have.
And while those fans may have the old books to thumb through, maybe they want to also get new stories as well to share with the newer fans without having to feel like their character was sacrificed because of it. I've never been behind extreme actions just to get a larger following for a few months. There's better ways to achieve that. It just requires a breath of fresh air in the Marvel/DC board rooms and less reliance on the old tricks these companies have grown accustomed to.
I guess the question is...
Do comic book reboots actually work (ie increase profits)? If so, why? Because if they actually work, then maybe they aren't the incredibly stupid thing that some fans perceive them to be. And it would explain why they keep doing them.
Since I don't have access to the numbers or any demographic studies, I'll have to speculate.
The key factor is disposable income. A contributing factor is that males are more likely to want to spend disposable income on "superhero" comics. I won't go into that, and it's not entirely relevant.
Speaking as a family man, I can say with great confidence that disposable income for my demographic is probably not all that high. So I assume that "married with children" is not the target demographic. As such, the industry really doesn't give a hoot about how I feel about the characters and storylines. Heck, negative buzz from me might even generate positive buzz for the real target demographic.
Take children out of the equation, and there is more likely to be a surplus of disposable income. This has the side effect of making it easier to target an adult audience with adult themes. But, there is still the spouse or significant other factor to consider. If there is a shared household and a shared income, there exists a strong possibility that the partner has some say in how the disposable income is spent. Which makes it less likely that such income is going to comics.
Let's skip over a couple of demographic groups and go right to children. Children under the age of 12 have no income to speak of, may not even have an allowance. Which is why "kiddie-safe" versions of superheroes are marketed toward this group. I may not be able to spend disposable income on my own comic book habit, but these kid-safe, parent-acceptable superheroes play off a sense of nostalgia that I'd like to share with my own kids. Thus the toys, movies, and kid cartoons are more likely to reflect the "classic" heroes instead of the "adult-oriented" messed-up ones we have now.
Backing up a bit, we come to the real key demographic.
Single individuals who have and do not need to share their disposable income. Parent-subsidized teenagers and college-age adults who may even have a small amount of independent income. This is the pool of future readers, readers, and future nostalgic parents who are going to drive sales. Think about that and what the comic book industry is doing to target that audience and a lot of things start to make more sense.
I wanted to weigh in on this.
Some of the New52 books are really good.
Manapaul's Flash, William's Batwoman, Morrison's Action are great titles.
There are plenty of good titles too. Animal Man, Swamp Thing, Men of War, the various Batman books, Wonder Woman etc etc.
Did they need to "reboot" to put out comics of that quality?
No, of course not.
They had about as many good or great books before.
But the reboot did make me try stuff I otherwise would not have tried.
The promise of a clear jumping on point (even if this was actually a little misleading) led me to try stuff, and find I liked it.
It's true I lost some titles, characters, writers, and continuity I liked but overall I'm enjoying more DC product than before, and that is good for me and them and for the industry.
The sales figures show that four months in, DC are dominating the top 10 in the sales charts.
Books like Nightwing and Aquaman and Batgirl now outsell Bendis' New Avengers and Avengers titles.
DC have to be pleased at that.
Will those sorts of sales last?
Perhaps not forever, but if they make for a good year in a down-trending industry then it makes business sense to do it.
To address some specific complaints:
Lois and Clark not married. The reboot seems to have de-aged everyone so they are at an earlier phase of the relationship. The door to them marrying in the future is open, if writers want to go there. I'd like to see some married heroes but can wait a few years for Mr. and Mrs. Kent if need be.
Starfire. Not a massive character who they have tried to push in the traditional version (remember she got a lot of page time in 52 and other books), without much reader interest. So they have changed her a bit (or a lot if you are outraged) to try to make people notice her, and people have. For the first time in a generation people other than a small but loyal fanbase care about Starfire. And the new stuff can be dropped incredibly easily in various ways that dont "taint" the character. Do I like the new Starfire? I'm marginally less indifferent to her than the old one.
Driving away old fans. They have a classic JLA, Aquaman, Flash, GL, GA all have books. Seems to me they are catering pretty well to long term fans. The Wally/Kyle/New Atom crowd are getting short shrift right now, and I sympathize with those fans a little. Kyle is already back in a book, I'd be very surprised if we never saw any of the others back.
And ultimately the fact is this, DC were being beaten by Marvel in a shrinking industry in a time of recession.
Had they kept on with the same old same old at some point they would go under.
They had to try something new, and drastic to gain market share.
They did, and it worked, much as it worked for Marvel with the "Ultimate" line.
You can argue for "good stories and art" all you want, and I agree that should be a goal.
But quality does not guarantee sales. Simone's Bird's of Prey or Gage's Avengers Academy never cracked the top 10 despite their excellence.
But after the New52 here's a list of DC books whose 3rd issue out sold Marvel's Flagship New Avengers title: Red Lanterns, Nightwing, Green Lantern Corps, Green Lantern New Guardians, Teen Titans, Batwoman, Aquaman, Batgirl, Wonder Woman, Batman and Robin, Superman, Batman the Dark Knight.
And those are the books leading up to the top 10. Six of the top 10 are DC books. The four top selling books are DC books.
For me, they are putting out books I like to read, and kicking bottom sales-wise.
I'd say it's working and that they were right to do it.
Anyway.......
Is this the new DC comics thread or should I go bump the old one? Looks like that logo that was leaked a few days ago will officially be the new DC logo moving forward! How do you guys feel about it? Still no word on if it'll be the comic logo as well.
(http://www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/201201191028.jpg)
http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/01/19/dc-entertainments-new-interactive-logo-officially-unveiled/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/2012/01/19/dc-entertainments-new-interactive-logo-officially-unveiled/)
I think an "interactive" logo is fine... for a website or an application or so-called "rich media".
Not so much for an entire brand. And if they embed those in every single digital format they have, it's going to get annoying really quick unless you can ignore them entirely.
Worse, those logo designs are pretty awful looking. Aside from the in-your-face green logo, they don't really suggest to me what they ought to represent.
The "steel" logo just doesn't say "Superman" to me.
I don't know what that black "wrapped" label is supposed to be.
That one that's supposed to be sparky just looks more like it has hair on it.
Is that one on the lower left supposed to be for the Watchmen? I couldn't place it right away.
The "misty" logo could be for Batman... or for a supernatural-based comic. Who knows?
When it was first seen, the basic grey version, I didn't like it. It seemed a little bland and modern for DC. But the final versions with the custom colours per book and interactive elements are kinda neat.
Without the "DC Comics" written underneath...I never would have guessed it was DC's new logo. I guess the guy who designed it never attended Advertising 101.
Quote from: Courtnall6 on January 20, 2012, 03:20:08 AM
Without the "DC Comics" written underneath...I never would have guessed it was DC's new logo. I guess the guy who designed it never attended Advertising 101.
Actually, I think this is a very powerful marketing tool...
...for Marvel.
I'm a little behind the curve on comic news but looks like the first mini-vent for DC's new 52 is coming soon:
Batman: Night of the Owls (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/01/09/batman-night-owls-snyder-rafael-albuquerque-crossover/)
Since it's contained in a few Batman titles only I'm not disappointed. In fact, I'm excited. Mostly because it looks like this entire mini-vent will be directed by Scott Snyder. This entire Court of Owls story has been nothing short of amazing and I'm glad it's expanding.
Ya looking forward to it. Whats actually cool, according to Snyder, we'l actually get the main story in Batman, rest of the tittles are just tie-ins, not crucial to understand the story. But i still think all of them will be worth getting. :)
http://io9.com/5881187/dc-comics-unveils-full-list-of-watchmen-prequel-comics?popular=true
Watchmen Prequels....... I love azarello and darwyn cooke... maybe these can work
Quote from: detourne_me on February 01, 2012, 01:08:42 PM
http://io9.com/5881187/dc-comics-unveils-full-list-of-watchmen-prequel-comics?popular=true (http://io9.com/5881187/dc-comics-unveils-full-list-of-watchmen-prequel-comics?popular=true)
Watchmen Prequels....... I love azarello and darwyn cooke... maybe these can work
The "nerd" rage from when these were a rumor is about to be topped. I've already seen signs of it.
Quote from: Previsionary on February 01, 2012, 06:10:01 PM
Quote from: detourne_me on February 01, 2012, 01:08:42 PM
http://io9.com/5881187/dc-comics-unveils-full-list-of-watchmen-prequel-comics?popular=true (http://io9.com/5881187/dc-comics-unveils-full-list-of-watchmen-prequel-comics?popular=true)
Watchmen Prequels....... I love azarello and darwyn cooke... maybe these can work
The "nerd" rage from when these were a rumor is about to be topped. I've already seen signs of it.
I'm not upset (or surprised) with their decision to revisit Watchmen in some way. I mean, the book has been incredibly popular for decades.
If creating prequels weren't so unnecessary I would probably be more upset by it. The original series explained the characters' pasts well enough, and the years in-between were made interesting by the back and forth storytelling that shifted between 'what is' and 'what was'. It allowed the reader to construct his or her own timeline and imagery.
In the end, they just couldn't resist the urge to cash in, and it shows, despite the talented people involved.
Before Watchmen's Straczynski addresses Babylon 5 comparisons (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/02/before-watchmens-straczynski-addresses-babylon-5-comparisons/)
Mark Waid also weighs in to correct JMS's assertion of the Alan Moore vs. DC debacle.
Well, I've been putting off posting here until I had something fairly substantive to say, and I suppose that time has come. DC actually managed to pull me back in, however temporarily or however limited the manner. I've, of course, been reading the new Aquaman, but I've also been following the progress of this reboot with some interest in general. I've been lurking in this thread, watching the news online, and listening to friends who are reading some of these new books. I've heard very impressive things from a good friend of mine, long a Marvel fan, who has decided that this is a great time to check out DC. His interest, much to my amusement, was sparked by my introducing him to JLU a few months back. Anyway, after his repeated enthusiastic recommendations, I've actually picked up a second DC book, The Flash. This is pretty unprecedented. It's been years and years since I read a DC book, and even longer since I read more than one. So, DC has managed to snare someone like me, who had not just given up on their books, but actively boycotted them for years, into reading parts of their new line. Based on my friend's recommendations and the glowing responses here I'm even recently picked up the JLA book. That by itself speaks volumes in my mind.
So, by the rubric Tommy is using there, and by the same measure many folks are applying, this DC reboot/relaunch, whatever-you-call-it, is a success. They're generating sales, they're beating out Marvel, they're bringing back old fans, perhaps even attracting some new ones...and yet, I have to say, as much as I may be enjoying a few books, I still don't really think of this as a success. You see, the problems I had with this project still exist, but I've decided to support a few good books that have been spawned by it anyway. I'll tell y'all what I think of the books I'm reading in a bit, for anyone interested. It seems to me that in terms of this grand project though, their current success is, at best, a fevered strength. It won't last. You can't keep fighting over the same shrinking demographic. The folks they're aiming at, and in this I think that BB is probably pretty close to the mark, simply can't support the comic industry by themselves, and they are, largely, still coming out of a culture that regards comics as being 'for kids.' In the end, this is still a dying industry and a dying market. DC may very well manage to grab a nice big chunk of this market for a while, but all this gambit does is prolong the inevitable.
This is part of my old argument, so I'm sure y'all know where I'm heading, but without a more comprehensive strategy DC can't bring in REALLY new readers. Without them, the industry can't reverse the downward trend, and without that, there isn't a whole lot of future here. I see a lot of folks saying more or less the same thing, but praising their efforts as good because it seems like all that can be done. This event had such potential, and while it's produced much better results than I had hoped, there is still a great deal of that potential being wasted because they're appealing to folks in this very small demographic. This was the chance to create an accessible universe with a planned trajectory and a smart marketing strategy, encouraging young people to read their books as well as bringing back older fans. However, you're right, kids aren't too high on DC's radar, and folks like me who prefer clean-ish books and worlds aren't really what they're after either, but this approach isn't going to produce lasting success, not in the long run. That makes me very sad, because I was hoping against hope that when I have kids they'd be able to grow up immersed in a really great comic universe, just like I did. I don't really see that happening, on the one hand because I wouldn't let any kids of mine read most of these books, even a few of those I'm enjoying, and on the other because I have no confidence that there will be much of a universe left for them to read about.
So, there you have it. Take my thoughts for what they're worth. I'll post about the specific books I'm reading later on.
Powergirl, don't like the costume design. :thumbdown:
(http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/files/2012/02/WFINE_Cv1_29817059jhlaf.jpg)
Soooooo... Supergirl has no legs?
Quote from: Previsionary on February 10, 2012, 08:14:33 PM
Soooooo... Supergirl has no legs?
She won't need them. She's replacing Barbara Gordon as the new Oracle.
ow_tiobe_sb
Phantom Bunburyist and Whirled Braker
I don't mind the body suit but the forearms and shins seem too elaborate.
Also is that a Robin there in the back?
So, all this talk about new readers/DC's model has been vaguely interesting. Here's a report on how well DC is allegedly doing as far as new readers are concerned.
QuoteThe results of The Nielsen Company's market research for DC Comics that surveyed "New 52" readers (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/09/28/dc-comics-market-research-new-52/) were released at ComicsPro's Dallas meeting yesterday and well... there's not much that's brave or bold about them. ICv2 (http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/22113.html) reports that 70 percent of the survey's 5,336 respondents were already fans, with only 5 percent completely new to buying comics, and 93% were male. What's more, only an estimated 2 percent were younger than 18 years old. The results are troubling, and raise serious questions about DC's ability to expand their audience base, and the accessibility of their content to both women and younger readers.
The numbers seem particularly stark in the context of the stated goal of the new 52 to create a "more modern, diverse DC Universe (http://www.comicsbeat.com/2011/05/31/the-new-dcu-bob-wayne-tells-retailers-about-day-and-date/)" that would both reach beyond its existing fanbase. As Dan DiDio told USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/2011-06-01-dc-comics-why-the-change_n.htm) when the initiative was announced, "If we can convince the people here we're doing something brand-new and fresh, we have a good chance to really get the people outside on board." If these results are any indication, the New 52 may have resonated with the existing audience -- or at least produced higher sales -- but had more trouble convincing the "people outside" of their new vision.
Read More: http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/02/10/dc-comics-readers-survey-reports-new-52-readership-93-male/#ixzz1m2bjRMij (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/02/10/dc-comics-readers-survey-reports-new-52-readership-93-male/#ixzz1m2bjRMij)
And here's the thing about statistics, they're only as accurate as their sample size, so I wouldn't take the majority of this very seriously myself. it is interesting to look at, and it echoes many of the responses I've seen here and elsewhere over the years.
It's a burden always being right, but I try to soldier on....
Earth 2
(http://wb.cdn.warnerbros.com/dcublog/files/2012/02/EARTH2_Cv1_variant_jasdhfklasd609g.jpg)
Oh, I bet you anything that the Earth- 2 folks you're seeing there are Dick Grayson, Connor Kent, and Donna Troy. They look too young to have served with the JSA during WWII, let alone too young to have kids. And the reason there is a Supergirl and lady Robin behind PG and Huntress is that they are supposed to be denizens of E- 2 trapped on the main Earth, and those are their E- 2 costumes.
Quote from: The Hitman on February 11, 2012, 12:18:32 PM
Oh, I bet you anything that the Earth- 2 folks you're seeing there are Dick Grayson, Connor Kent, and Donna Troy. They look too young to have served with the JSA during WWII, let alone too young to have kids. And the reason there is a Supergirl and lady Robin behind PG and Huntress is that they are supposed to be denizens of E- 2 trapped on the main Earth, and those are their E- 2 costumes.
That would actually give me a vague interest in Earth-2.
I'm seeing reports that we're going to get another Black Superman very soon. I'm interested in seeing how that all works out.
ETA links:
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/comics-news/18283-nu52-explores-parallel-earths-in-action-comics-9.html
http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/02/11/black-superman-to-appear-in-action-comics/
Conner Kent and Donna Troy no longer exist.
Quote from: AfghanAnt on February 11, 2012, 05:21:35 PM
Conner Kent and Donna Troy no longer exist.
... On Earth- 1. Who's to say that this isn't some form of E-2 Infinity Inc or something?
DC Robots? First zombies and now they are giving us robots.
Ohh! Wait! That's reboot. That's even worse. Why don't they just admit they don't know what their doing and stop trying to repair an irrepairable continuity? They should just concentrate on writing stories that people would want to read.
Awesome DC. Complicate your newly re-booted universe with alternate parallel universes then be baffled as to why new readers don't understand wtf is going on when they pick up an issue to try. (run on sentence...blah blah blah)
I always saw the all "DCNU" thing more like a move to get back some of the relapsed readers than a plan to get new ones. Didio said several times he wanted to get back the readers who went away after the 90's. And with guys like Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld, Bret Booth, Scott Lobdel and Howard Mackie at the helm I think they never were really thinking about new readers.
Titles like Action and Wonder Woman are trying to get something different with classic characters, but JLA, Superboy, Titans, etc, etc are too much of "New for 90s" to get new reader IMHO.
Still it's selling better, so DC is happy.
Can I just officially say that Wonder Woman is definitely the best book from the whole NuDC group? K, thx.
Quote from: laughing paradox on February 23, 2012, 04:07:18 AM
Can I just officially say that Wonder Woman is definitely the best book from the whole NuDC group? K, thx.
Nope, it's Batman. Ur welcome.
Quote from: murs47 on February 24, 2012, 11:45:19 PM
Quote from: laughing paradox on February 23, 2012, 04:07:18 AM
Can I just officially say that Wonder Woman is definitely the best book from the whole NuDC group? K, thx.
Nope, it's Batman. Ur welcome.
Sorry dudes, Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.D.E. is pound for pound the best book.
Don't be silly gentlemen, it's The Flash, hands down.
Really Benton? I know Aquaman's kinda iffy, but one would think you'd be backing that book (which is working toward trying to make Aquaman cool again) so hard your tongue would be falling out.
Actually I like Aquaman better than the Flash (but that Mob Rule arc was amazing, the latest issue, not so much)
It's sad to know that Lemire is leaving Frankenstein, but he'll pick up writing Justice League Dark with issue #9
Its also sad OMAC is ending, one of the most fun books of the relaunch
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 25, 2012, 07:33:57 PM
Don't be silly gentlemen, it's The Flash, hands down.
I'm with Benton on this one.
That said, I'm pretty bummed that Hawk and Dove is being canceled.
DC's new Earth 2 will be a "darker" version of "New Earth" with more "edgy" costumes:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-comics-earth-2-designs-120227.html
I'm so out of this...
Quote from: laughing paradox on February 23, 2012, 04:07:18 AM
Can I just officially say that Wonder Woman is definitely the best book from the whole NuDC group? K, thx.
While not my cup of tea, WW is pretty good. And it's a new, different take on the character, unlike Teen Titans and JLA...
Action Comics is the best title IMHO, because it's "new-retro" take on Superman and his cast.
...
See, now I'm somewhat terrified. The natural next step after E2 is E3, which is a world I have a lot of love for... but with DC's current track record, there's just no way they'll do it right.
Quote from: John Jr. on March 02, 2012, 11:14:20 PM
DC's new Earth 2 will be a "darker" version of "New Earth" with more "edgy" costumes:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-comics-earth-2-designs-120227.html
I'm so out of this...
Dissappointing. I like my E2 characters to be simpler in design and concept. Where are my WWII "Mystery Men"? :banghead:
Good man CB! Yeah 'Mato, the Aquaman book is really quite good, though the recent change in artist isn't helping it. It's just not quite as good as Flash. It's been a long time since I've seen such an innovatively drawn and cleverly written mainstream book as
The Flash. I'm nothing if not honest. ^_^
Quote from: John Jr. on March 02, 2012, 11:14:20 PM
DC's new Earth 2 will be a "darker" version of "New Earth" with more "edgy" costumes:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/dc-comics-earth-2-designs-120227.html
I'm so out of this...
Wow.......that sounds absolutely awful.
*Enters "Conspiracy Mode"* Anyone else think this is another ploy to garner positive reactions to the "Main" DC continuity? I mean, there are bound to be a few people who will say something to the effect of "I like E1 better. Anything is better than that grim 'n gritty E2 garbage." It's the "Lesser of Two Evils" theory in use, people! *Exits "Conspiracy Mode"*
Another vote for Wonder Woman, even if issues 5 & 6's fiil-in artist isn't on the same level as Chiang. Flash, while uneven, also has some excellent moments.
Is it just me, or is "dark and edgy" basically shorthand for "lazy attempt at attention grab"?
I'm sorry, but I like my heroes as "heroes" not as "people with powers and more issues than National Geographic". Grim and Dark have their place, but it should not be the default setting. You don't have a meal that's nothing but broccoli - there has to be some variety.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on March 05, 2012, 03:10:08 PM
Is it just me, or is "dark and edgy" basically shorthand for "lazy attempt at attention grab"?
I'm sorry, but I like my heroes as "heroes" not as "people with powers and more issues than National Geographic". Grim and Dark have their place, but it should not be the default setting. You don't have a meal that's nothing but broccoli - there has to be some variety.
While I agree wholeheartedly with you, it looks like "Dark and Gritty" is the only way DC can make comics nowadays, for instance:
"(...) showing what editor Brian Cunningham describes as a "mystical, magical, fantasy feel." The character of Shazam now has a glowing lightning bolt on his chest replacing the regular yellow part of the costume, lightning is emitting from all over, and a hood obscures his face. Gone is the "big red cheese," revealing this New 52 version as a darker character."
More here:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/shazam-revealed-dc-comics-120305.html
"This is not your father's Earth 2."
"Robinson: Well, you're going to see the status quo of the superhero community on Earth 2, which are the characters that DC revealed last week. And you're going to see them in a pretty extreme situation that has gripped the world at that time."
(...)
"Robinson: So instead I'll say, the events of her (Lois Lane's) tragic death are not something that we actually will be showing, but they are something that drives Superman on in his actions in the comic book.
Nrama: And it sounds like Wonder Woman has the same sort of drive because she's lost people close to her (all the amazons) as well, correct?"
More here:
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/james-robinson-describes-earth-2.html
Remember how the DCNU would be about diversity and an easy point to new, different readers?
Forget it, it just a time travel to the (worst of the) 90s.
First look at the new Earth2 Jay Garrick...lol
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2012/03/earth-2-2-cover02.jpg)
Earth-2 Jay Garrick... You've got to be kidding me... He's the Flash... or one of them at any rate... and the best they can do is fighting mutant rats? And that uniform... I... Words fail me how bad that looks.
But let me try... Let's see...
If Booster Gold were suddenly given the powers of Shazam, that's what his costume would look like.
Quote from: BlueBard on March 07, 2012, 02:24:26 PMIf Booster Gold were suddenly given the powers of Shazam, that's what his costume would look like.
I'll do you one better. It looks like the CSA Earth-3 Jay Garrick.
And I'm still trying to figure out the lines that look like they run from both shoulders to the middle of the chest. I'd almost think "seam", but the bolt goes right over it, smoothly. :huh:
I just lost my lunch...ugh. :banghead:
Quote from: murs47 on March 07, 2012, 06:20:23 AM
First look at the new Earth Ew Jay Garrick...lol
Fixed.
No, I kind agree with Murs here... the characters and costumes we've been shown are much more akin to something out of the Crime Syndicate than good old fashioned Earth 2.
Quote from: Tomato on March 07, 2012, 08:50:59 PM
No, I kind agree with Murs here...
But I've stated no opinion...
Meh... sorry, I thought GG was commenting on the post about it looking like Earth 3 (the one PG made) so I copied your name from her quote.
Ha.....yeah, yeah, that REALLY looks like a CSA Jay Garrick. That would actually be an almost decent design for that. For its true purpose...not so much.
I think it's becoming more and more clear that DC is amalgamating the two versions of Earth 2... this is the Earth 2 antimatter universe.
Tomato, I was referring to the overall "Earth 2" revamp and my general dislike of it so far. If it does turn out to be Crime Syndicate Earth, that might be a little better, but I'm not counting on it. So far all I see is...
- Characters who were against killing now kill! Why? BECAUSE WE'RE EDGY!!!
- All of the Amazons are dead! So is Lois! So are many more! Why? BECAUSE WE'RE EDGY!!!
- Earth 2? It's a dark and horrible place now where everyone is miserable! Why? BECAUSE WE'RE EDGY!!!
Excuse me, I'm going to go read some Atomic Robo and make myself feel better.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on March 08, 2012, 02:45:45 AM
Tomato, I was referring to the overall "Earth 2" revamp and my general dislike of it so far. If it does turn out to be Crime Syndicate Earth, that might be a little better, but I'm not counting on it. So far all I see is...
- Characters who were against killing now kill! Why? BECAUSE WE'RE EDGY!!!
- All of the Amazons are dead! So is Lois! So are many more! Why? BECAUSE WE'RE EDGY!!!
- Earth 2? It's a dark and horrible place now where everyone is miserable! Why? BECAUSE WE'RE EDGY!!!
Excuse me, I'm going to go read some Atomic Robo and make myself feel better.
I agree with every single last word of this...especially about Robo.
The sad thing is, I do like some of the ideas in the new 52 (making Cyborg one of the major league members, bringing Superman back to his "Social Activist" roots, no more underoos, etc.) but there's just so much WRONG with it (Superboy, Starfire, Teen Titans, Batman's condensed timeline, Earth 2, Superboy, lack of any consistent timeline, Green Arrow, and Superboy. And yes, I know Superboy is in there three times. They mucked him up THAT EFFING BAD) that it just doesn't balance out the good.
It's really a shame too, because some of this I was looking forward to. I actually was interested in seeing a proper Earth 2, and what kind of stories it would allow writers to tell. But instead, we get the Justice Lords.
I would have preferred JLU Ollie, but Green Arrow is still a decent read.
It's not a bad concept, but it'd be better served on a brand new character, not shoehorned onto an existing one.
Ok so I just sat down and read the first 6 issues of JLA again and let me say this is NOT John's finest work. The art is great but reading the whole arc not only took me 40sh minutes (6.6 minutes per issue) but it also felt incredibly random. I hoped that reading it again (as if it was trade) would make the story more apparent but it doesn't. It just confused me. It seems like it is written for young teens but it's so incredibly violent and overly sexualized (thanks Jim!) I don't think I don't know who the reader is supposed to be. This is 2000s Chris Claremont on meth.
IGN ranked NuDC. I have to say, if these ratings are accurate for a good portion of the reading population DC has, then it has many low to middle ranking books than I expected it to have post-relaunch: http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1219917p1.html
An aside... that hawk and dove image was so unfortunate. Marvel and DC have to stop humoring Liefield if they want a book to last more than a few issues. It's really unfair.
Quote from: Previsionary on March 09, 2012, 01:09:06 AM
IGN ranked NuDC. I have to say, if these ratings are accurate for a good portion of the reading population DC has, then it has many low to middle ranking books than I expected it to have post-relaunch: http://comics.ign.com/articles/121/1219917p1.html
An aside... that hawk and dove image was so unfortunate. Marvel and DC have to stop humoring Liefield if they want a book to last more than a few issues. It's really unfair.
Yeah, unfortunately, I didn't think that Hawk and Dove would last long when I saw that Liefield was on the book. Kind of hoping there would have been a switch before it got cancelled.
I'm surprised they gave Batwing a B-. It's a fan favorite and has some interesting and different elements from standard superhero comics.
My Question...Was the reboot even necessary? Could they tell most of these stories they are now telling, without having started "fresh"? I'm gathering that some characters are pretty much the same (like Barbara Gordon taking back the mantle of Batgirl , after years of paralysis and AFAIK Batman is the same as before) as before or almost the same and some are quite different (Superman sounds different, from what I've read here and elsewhere).
I saw "My Greatest Adventure" #1 on the shelf and I was curious about what the reboot Robotman was like (since I had heard he was in the issue and I was bummed DC cancelled the only book I have any interest in, the Doom Patrol)...IMHO, horrible and certainly not the Cliff Steele I knew...More like an Anime robot hero than Cliff Steele/Robotman.
Dana
Ehh, they desperately needed a reboot, they just aren't taking advantage of the opportunity to really start fresh. That's what I've said all the way along. They've got some good books, but in the end they are still trying to have their cake and eat it too. This will just continue the slow death of mainstream American comic books.
COMICS: First Look At Jay Garrick's New Costume; More Details On "Earth 2" Revealed (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=55823)
(http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/10300/EARTH-2-2-Cover_02.jpg)
WonderCon 2012 - Nite Owl #1 Variant Cover (http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2012/03/17/wondercon-2012-nite-owl-1-variant-cover)
(http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/bw-nightowl-var-med.jpg)
They took away the hat?!?!?! Why?!!??! It was such a cool accessory/weapon in the hands of the right writer.
Quote from: thalaw2 on March 21, 2012, 02:03:36 PM
They took away the hat?!?!?! Why?!!??! It was such a cool accessory/weapon in the hands of the right writer.
The first thing you thought of was the hat when you thought of Jay.
Quote from: thalaw2 on March 21, 2012, 02:03:36 PM
They took away the hat?!?!?! Why?!!??! It was such a cool accessory/weapon in the hands of the right writer.
Agreed.
That cover is High Art. Leonardo, Rembrandt and Picasso together couldn't have created anything half as inspired.
Shame indeed about losing the hat and therefore the reference to Mercury/Hermes.
You know what makes this all the more depressing in context? The very first figure Mattel decided to go with for its Club Infinite Earths is the classic Jay Garrick... as if to remind us that the crap DC is giving us is not the real Earth 2.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on March 05, 2012, 03:10:08 PM
Is it just me, or is "dark and edgy" basically shorthand for "lazy attempt at attention grab"?
I'm sorry, but I like my heroes as "heroes" not as "people with powers and more issues than National Geographic". Grim and Dark have their place, but it should not be the default setting. You don't have a meal that's nothing but broccoli - there has to be some variety.
Someone wake me when this nightmare is over and they bring back First Wave.
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 12, 2012, 05:09:33 AM
Ehh, they desperately needed a reboot, they just aren't taking advantage of the opportunity to really start fresh. That's what I've said all the way along. They've got some good books, but in the end they are still trying to have their cake and eat it too. This will just continue the slow death of mainstream American comic books.
I noticed in the grading article, that a few of the books are still heavily weighed down by continuity (like Hawk and Dove, LSH, etc...), a few books haven't found their way/don't know what they're supposed to be and there are some pretty low grades given for the a few of the big name books too. I noticed Liefeld will be writing Hawkman....That does not bode well for that title IMHO.
Dana
Finally got around to trying Wonder Woman. That book is soooooo good! *caresses body* So good!
Aquaman lost its touch once its focus shifted away from those creatures of the trench. I dropped it without difficulty.
Tried to get into Flash but just couldnt. I can see the appeal of it, just not my preference. I will say, the redesigned Rogues are excellent. It's pretty much what I had in mind if I ever got around to redesigning them for Ultimate DC.
Batman still rocks my socks off.
Quote from: murs47 on March 25, 2012, 11:34:39 PM
Finally got around to trying Wonder Woman. That book is soooooo good! *caresses body* So good!
Now Murs, remember what your psych said about caressing your body in public over Wonder Woman!
Quote from: Deaths Jester on March 26, 2012, 06:41:20 PM
Quote from: murs47 on March 25, 2012, 11:34:39 PM
Finally got around to trying Wonder Woman. That book is soooooo good! *caresses body* So good!
Now Murs, remember what your psych said about caressing your body in public over Wonder Woman!
Do it more often?
Quote from: murs47 on March 26, 2012, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on March 26, 2012, 06:41:20 PM
Quote from: murs47 on March 25, 2012, 11:34:39 PM
Finally got around to trying Wonder Woman. That book is soooooo good! *caresses body* So good!
Now Murs, remember what your psych said about caressing your body in public over Wonder Woman!
Do it more often?
No...the opposite you ingrate!!
Quote from: Deaths Jester on March 28, 2012, 04:07:00 PM
Quote from: murs47 on March 26, 2012, 08:52:19 PM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on March 26, 2012, 06:41:20 PM
Quote from: murs47 on March 25, 2012, 11:34:39 PM
Finally got around to trying Wonder Woman. That book is soooooo good! *caresses body* So good!
Now Murs, remember what your psych said about caressing your body in public over Wonder Woman!
Do it more often?
No...the opposite you ingrate!!
Grate my body like cheese?
Murs, just... go to your corner and sit there. Gawd.
Quote from: Tomato on March 28, 2012, 06:21:57 PM
Murs, just... go to your corner and sit there. Gawd.
And don't touch yourself at all!!
DC is bringing back the National Comics banner after 63 years. I go into more detail here:
http://www.pizzaxtremeteam.com/2012/04/10/national-comics-returns-after/
That National Comics return is a very cool idea. I'm surprised it hasn't been broached before. There were so many old titles that could be reused with modern characters.
The Nielsen Company made a survey about the "New 52" initiative. Newsarama had the entire relatory, but it was removed. Anyway, we can find part of the conclusions here:
http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/forum/go/to.cgi/http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2012/02/09/dc-comics-the-new-52-product-launch-research-results/
I found this one specially interesting...
DC COMICS: THE NEW 52 appealed mainly to avid fans and lapsed readers. More than 70% of those surveyed categorized themselves as avid fans who visit the comic book store every week. More than a quarter of in-store consumers were lapsed readers. The survey indicates that 5% of those polled identified themselves as first-time, new readers.
And this one is the natural follow up
Avid Fans purchased up to 20 titles out of the 52 titles.
So, DC didn't get new readers, but they found a way to make their readers to buy more comics. It's the same strategy the big two are trying in the last 30 years wit the Events/crossovers madness. Will it work this time?
Quote from: John Jr. on April 16, 2012, 10:31:58 PM
The Nielsen Company made a survey about the "New 52" initiative. Newsarama had the entire relatory, but it was removed. Anyway, we can find part of the conclusions here:
http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/forum/go/to.cgi/http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2012/02/09/dc-comics-the-new-52-product-launch-research-results/
I found this one specially interesting...
DC COMICS: THE NEW 52 appealed mainly to avid fans and lapsed readers. More than 70% of those surveyed categorized themselves as avid fans who visit the comic book store every week. More than a quarter of in-store consumers were lapsed readers. The survey indicates that 5% of those polled identified themselves as first-time, new readers.
And this one is the natural follow up
Avid Fans purchased up to 20 titles out of the 52 titles.
So, DC didn't get new readers, but they found a way to make their readers to buy more comics. It's the same strategy the big two are trying in the last 30 years wit the Events/crossovers madness. Will it work this time?
I think it has worked....at least temporarily. Of course, the low quality of story telling in some of these titles isn't creating long term success.
Nope, like I've been saying for months.
Quite frankly, I don't think it will work in the long term. They need to find a way to get new readers without alienating the old ones. Make some of their readers buy more comics is a short term strategy, when one guy stops reading they loose 20 "buyers"...
With all the media coverage and an line wide reboot they got only 5% new readers and we don't know how many of them will stick around.
We've had this discussion a few times, and despite some people claiming "it worked," and going on nonsensical rants about it, we just need to accept that Marvel and DC are deadset in their ways and aren't willing to try much outside of their comfort zones to really grab newer, younger readers, otherwise they wouldn't keep endorsing the same methods that pushed people away in the first place.
In other news, Wonder Woman is getting a new costume?!
(http://comicbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/wonder-womans-new-costume.jpg)
http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/04/16/wonder-woman-gets-a-new-costume-and-a-pair-of-golden-guns/ (http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/04/16/wonder-woman-gets-a-new-costume-and-a-pair-of-golden-guns/)
Ug. Well, that's about a third of what I've always said her costume should be, at least insomuch as it has some Greek elements...though they're lost in an overly complicated design. Really, Darwyn Cooke's version of it from the New Frontier is pretty close to what I've always rather thought she needed, a look that made some sense given her origin, yet was still superheroic:
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lqgh2zAqTr1qg1iejo1_500.png
Also, WW wielding "golden guns"? Ha....is Michael Bay somehow behind this?
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 17, 2012, 01:38:24 AM
Also, WW wielding "golden guns"? Ha....is Michael Bay somehow behind this?
Him or Rob Liefield.
A quarter of those polled were lapsed readers coming back - that's nothing to sneer at though.
Too true CB, too true.
Ehh, that type of readership isn't going to last, though.
Wonder Woman wielding modern weapons is organic to the current run of Wonder Woman, as it depicts ancient Greek mythologies with a modern spin.
Also, it's the best book DC is pumping out.
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 17, 2012, 01:38:24 AM
Also, WW wielding "golden guns"? Ha....is Michael Bay somehow behind this?
Judging by that cover, I'd say it was Simon Pegg.
Quote from: laughing paradox on April 17, 2012, 11:30:27 PM
Wonder Woman wielding modern weapons is organic to the current run of Wonder Woman, as it depicts ancient Greek mythologies with a modern spin.
Agreed.
You know, the one thing I really miss is JSA...before they broke it up and killed Alan Scott and such..but just the JSA. Wish DC had at least tried doing a 52 verison of them, just so we could see the team some more.
Quote from: Deaths Jester on April 18, 2012, 03:32:17 PM
You know, the one thing I really miss is JSA...before they broke it up and killed Alan Scott and such..but just the JSA. Wish DC had at least tried doing a GOOD 52 verison of them, just so we could see the team some more.
Fixed.
Looks like some of the actions DC (and Marvel) have pulled in the past has ended up pushing one creator away. Who, you ask? One Mr. Chris Roberson.
http://comicbook.com/blog/2012/04/18/will-before-watchmen-drive-creators-away/
Quote"If DC knew it couldn't get any good talent if it acts this way, it would change," said cartoonist John Linton Roberson (no relation) on the Facebook page. "That's what caused the changes in the 80s that LED to Watchmen–that most of their big talent was going to Pacific, First and Eclipse. If the big 2 hadn't been scared, royalties and rights of any kind never would have happened."
so what does everyone think about dc's next wave or wave 2 or whatever? i think earth 2 may have potential.
I'm looking forward to Batman Inc, but I'll probably get it in trade form.
I am interested in seeing where Earth 2 goes, and Dial H is both creepy and awesome.
None of the titles interest me, sadly. If JSA was set in the 40's or 30's, portraying the original generation of super-heroes, I might be interested. I'm of the opinion that their new world is far too ill-defined as yet to be creating alternate versions of it.
Second the Dial H for Hero being both creepy and awesome.
I am decidedly Meh on Earth-2, however.
Third the Dial H for Hero myself.. totally was awesome to see this title return and bringing back the wild and creepy once again.
- CQ
I'll give Earth-2 a few more issues to see how things play out.
I thought Earth 2 was exciting and a better story than the Justice League of America. I'm interested in seeing the characters we know adapted in a new light.
World's Finest felt like a new Birds of Prey book to me, which is something I enjoy, seeing as the current Birds of Prey book is lackluster at best.
Earth 2 was interesting. The last few pages with Jay and Allen really grabbed my attention. I'll give the next issue a try for sure.
Gotta agree with you guys,Earth 2 is awesome! :thumbup:
I just read "Earth 2" and while the premise is a lot better than I expect I still found the story bland, it should be epic, but was weak I liked the new Alan Scott, he looks promising, but I doubt I'll follow this one.
I was very surprised with "Worlds' Finest", it's pretty good! Good art and great characterization (the heroines didn't cry and wallows in self pity after a tragedy, they rebuild their lives and go on, like heroes are supposed to do) and the dialog is fun. I'll probably get issue 2.
Didio does it again.
I just read that DC has decided it must make one of its main characters homosexual [in order to sell more comics]. Way to seem insincere and ham-handed, DC.
Quote from: yell0w_lantern on May 21, 2012, 12:29:40 PM
Didio does it again.
I just read that DC has decided it must make one of its main characters homosexual [in order to sell more comics]. Way to seem insincere and ham-handed, DC.
I'm shocked.
I'm shocked they didn't decide to go with two. Batman and Superman can finally be "Super Friends" out in the open. Or they could really explore the deep relationship between Batman and Robin.
:thumbdown:
Quote from: yell0w_lantern on May 21, 2012, 12:29:40 PM
Didio does it again.
I just read that DC has decided it must make one of its main characters homosexual [in order to sell more comics]. Way to seem insincere and ham-handed, DC.
Not an attention grabber for me, maybe if it was to further develop a character or story, I would check it out. But not just to sell books. :thumbdown:
You know it's going to be a B or C lister and said news will be used to combat Northstar's wedding to Mr. No Personality (Kyle). If they want to use a gay/lesbian character, then they should just stick with Batwoman, who, y'know, was so controversial way back when.
So....it's been revealed
Spoiler
Green Lantern Alan Scott?
:angry:
<_<
So....They pick the guy in the puffy shirt? Really? The guy who was married and had children? Aren't there any more logical choices for gay characters?
Dana
But how will we get Jade? :(
QuoteBut how will we get Jade?
An affair with hulk? :P
Because nobody gay in the '30s, '40s and '50s ever got married and had kids.... :rolleyes:
Y'all are kind of assuming continuity that might not exist anymore. One thing about the "New 52", DC can change anything they want at this point.
"Oh, yeah! Everything is exactly the same except for all the things we want to be different!"
Kind of a large loophole, wouldn't you say?
This seems like a cop-pot to me. If DC wanted to make this revelation as earth-shattering as they wanted it to be, at the very least they should've picked a character from the main continuity. Go big or go home, DC.
No, just go home.
I'm kinda surprised DC never created a Maggie Sawyer and Renee Montoya mini-series.
I read the Batman Annual today. Quite enjoyed it.
Spoiler
It properly introduces the reboot Mr Freeze. It is revealed that Nora is not his wife but a young woman frozen in the 40s that Freeze has become obsessed with because she was frozen in ice. It's an interesting origin and creates a much more dark and insane Freeze. I kinda like it. Not better than the TAS Freeze but a workable version.
Interview Re: Alan Scott being gay:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=38946 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=38946)
QuoteCBR News: James, "Earth-2" as a series is something you developed for a while before the comic hit the stands. At what point in the process did changing Alan Scott's sexual orientation come about, and what did you feel it added to the world and character?
James Robinson: We were developing the book for about eight months before the first issue came out, and there's a part of me that loves the old continuity and everything else. Obviously, I'm a huge fan of DC. But one of the things I felt was that if you're going to reinvent a universe, you should really go for it. You should go for it the way Grant Morrison has done with Superman or how Geoff Johns has come up with a new origin for the Justice League. With that in mind, the only thing I was sad about in terms of a younger Justice League was that there wasn't going to be Jade and Obsidian – Obsidian of course being Alan Scott's gay son. And just as one idea can foster the next, from there I went, "Why don't I just make Alan Scott gay?" And to Dan Didio's credit, there wasn't a moments hesitation on that. He just said, "That's a great idea," and we went with it.
And I can't speak for Dan, but I suspect that he is as surprised by how much attention this has gotten as I am, because I believe I did the first gay kiss in comics back in "Starman." That was in 1998 in issue #45. So this has been going on for a long time, and we obviously had Mikaal Tomas in the Justice League before this. So to me, it's a realistic aspect of the cross section of diversity that exists in society. That would exist on a team. So the fact that it's become a big deal, I'm a little surprised by that. But I'm delighted by the mainly positive reaction that it's gotten and the attention it's bringing to the book, which is obviously a really good thing.
I wanted to ask about that history with Mikaal Tomas Starman. Even though we've seen gay characters in mainstream comics and gay heroes, things like this and Marvel's wedding in "Astonishing X-Men" are drawing a lot more attention. What do you think has the raised spotlight on these stories, and does that attention change how you approach writing Alan at all?
One of the things I want to stress and one of the things I take pride in and hopefully do well is that when you meet these characters – and both Alan and [the Flash] Jay Garrick were only in two pages of the first issue – you'll see that I'm not changing them. I'm just turning them into modern day versions of how they used to be when they started out in the Golden Age. Jay Garrick was this young, slightly naive and idealistic guy that got his powers in the last year of college and went out into the real world. This version of Jay Garrick is pretty much the same person. The thing about "Earth-2" is that it isn't a magical world, but there's a little more mysticism there than there is on the main DCU. So all of these heroes get their powers in a slightly mystical way. As opposed to that strange original Jay Garrick origin with that "hard water" fictional science, he instead gets his powers from the dying god Mercury.
Alan Scott gets his powers from the green flame. He used to be this dynamic, bold, young guy who was originally an engineer but eventually became a radio announcer and then a radio station owner. Then as TV became a part of life, the Gotham City Broadcasting Company became a TV station too. So we're really going back to the way he was – that honorable, brave, type-A hero that he was starting out. The only thing I've done is treat his sexuality differently. But to me, that's just one aspect, one facet of the character. There are so many other aspects to him.
As for why it's getting all this attention, I think maybe it's just the time. The public is now more aware of this sort of thing and frankly is more accepting of it all. I think that's a good thing. It's the progress of society.
Quote from: Podmark on June 01, 2012, 03:54:11 AM
I read the Batman Annual today. Quite enjoyed it.
Spoiler
It properly introduces the reboot Mr Freeze. It is revealed that Nora is not his wife but a young woman frozen in the 40s that Freeze has become obsessed with because she was frozen in ice. It's an interesting origin and creates a much more dark and insane Freeze. I kinda like it. Not better than the TAS Freeze but a workable version.
Makes him way less sympathetic though.
Wow, a gay alternate reality character. It is like sunfire in 2001, only hyped.
Honestly if DC would have snuck this in, I would be happy. As an teased "big deal", turns out it is not.
So I guess neither of Alan's children (Jade and Obsidian, wasn't Obsidian gay?) exist?
Dana
yes, he was gay, and no they do not exist. Covered in the article, first question. <_<
Yep, I just <_< you.
Whoops, I missed that.
Dana :P
Quote from: steamteck on June 01, 2012, 01:55:10 PM
Makes him way less sympathetic though.
Indeed. But that's what they were going for.
Quote from: Podmark on June 01, 2012, 11:33:57 PM
Quote from: steamteck on June 01, 2012, 01:55:10 PM
Makes him way less sympathetic though.
Indeed. But that's what they were going for.
I've never understood why all of Batman's villains need to be psycho-killers. Wasn't three-quarters of them enough?
DC missed a great chance with making Alan Scott gay. He's from the 40's...they could have worked so many angles to explain him having kids and such. Making it an alternate reality seems a little weak to me....but time will tell.
Man, what is is with comics now a days that they are seriously pushing their homosexual views on us. Just dropped Young Avengers from the multiple gay characters they are pushing. jeeze!
The... two...gay characters that have been in the book since issue 1? There's like a handful of active gay and bi characters out there right now in mainstream comics as opposed to the heap of straight ones. Let's calm our hyperboles.
Quote from: thalaw2 on June 02, 2012, 02:34:01 PM
DC missed a great chance with making Alan Scott gay. He's from the 40's...they could have worked so many angles to explain him having kids and such. Making it an alternate reality seems a little weak to me....but time will tell.
I agree. An older character coming out now, with the explanation that they felt they couldn't earlier, would have had more impact.
One of the main reasons behind the DC reboot was the "need" to make characters younger. DC feels comics readers do not trust anyone older than 29 because they're not "edgy" enough.
Quote from: Podmark on June 01, 2012, 03:54:11 AM
I read the Batman Annual today. Quite enjoyed it.
Spoiler
It properly introduces the reboot Mr Freeze. It is revealed that Nora is not his wife but a young woman frozen in the 40s that Freeze has become obsessed with because she was frozen in ice. It's an interesting origin and creates a much more dark and insane Freeze. I kinda like it. Not better than the TAS Freeze but a workable version.
personally i know the origin that is most popular is in its self a reboot, this knew one makes the character lose any uniqueness about his motivation and just turns him into the general obsessive geek who didn't get the girl and went nuts.
(http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs27/f/2008/156/f/f/Mr__Freeze_by_Livio_by_Livio27.jpg)
the freeze change annoys me because it ruins aspects and moments like the image above
the DCAU freeze was a ambiguously foreborn and a killer no one doubts that but in a way you really could see where he was coming from and you may have done the same if stuck in his position, its a story that lead to really deep character driven moments
if you look at it with the new 52 freeze in mind, its the generic psycho nerd who is obsessed with some woman stuck in a fridge
Agreed TUE.
I completely disagree.
Freeze was a psychopathic killer pre-Nu52 and and he's still one now. Does Nora being his wife somehow justify killing innocent people? A psychopathic murderer is a psychopathic murderer.
Also, that picture can be interpreted as obsession.
Quote from: murs47 on June 03, 2012, 03:14:20 PM
I completely disagree.
Freeze was a psychopathic killer pre-Nu52 and and he's still one now. Does Nora being his wife somehow justify killing innocent people? A psychopathic murderer is a psychopathic murderer.
Also, that picture can be interpreted as obsession.
Nuh-uh-uh!
Now, murs... UE is not gonna do that thing with you where he explains his opinion, you explain yours, and he interprets it as you telling him he's wrong. Apologize. You're out of line. And obsessed. With something. Probs yourself.
See, UE, I gotcho back. *holds knife and serious stares UE's back* :twisted:
*disappears in a cloud of biting sarcasm*
Quote from: murs47 on June 03, 2012, 03:14:20 PM
I completely disagree.
Freeze was a psychopathic killer pre-Nu52 and and he's still one now. Does Nora being his wife somehow justify killing innocent people? A psychopathic murderer is a psychopathic murderer.
Also, that picture can be interpreted as obsession.
They turned him into a psychopathic killer in the comics after his renaissance in the DCAU, which I always hated. There were good stories told, but they made him less special. However, I'd argue that this is not the core of the character as he was reimagined in TAS. Freeze was always one of the most rational of the villains, driven, but not necessarily insane. He was sympathetic in a way that most of the rest of the Bat rogue's gallery just can't really be. Perhaps he was obsessed with Nora, willing to do great and terrible things to save her or revenge her memory, but that is part of what make him interesting. That's the villain inside of him, the part of him that is willing to sacrifice others for the sake of his love, a sacrifice she herself would certainly not condone. Obsessed? Probably, but so was Romeo.
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 03, 2012, 06:12:02 PM
Quote from: murs47 on June 03, 2012, 03:14:20 PM
I completely disagree.
Freeze was a psychopathic killer pre-Nu52 and and he's still one now. Does Nora being his wife somehow justify killing innocent people? A psychopathic murderer is a psychopathic murderer.
Also, that picture can be interpreted as obsession.
They turned him into a psychopathic killer in the comics after his renaissance in the DCAU, which I always hated. There were good stories told, but they made him less special. However, I'd argue that this is not the core of the character as he was reimagined in TAS. Freeze was always one of the most rational of the villains, driven, but not necessarily insane. He was sympathetic in a way that most of the rest of the Bat rogue's gallery just can't really be. Perhaps he was obsessed with Nora, willing to do great and terrible things to save her or revenge her memory, but that is part of what make him interesting. That's the villain inside of him, the part of him that is willing to sacrifice others for the sake of his love, a sacrifice she herself would certainly not condone. Obsessed? Probably, but so was Romeo.
Agreed. DCAU Freeze went through some very dark periods in his life (such as at the beginning of "Deep Freeze" episode and just about everything after the Sub-Zero movie), but there were brief moments when the benevolent Victor still seemed to exist (his sacrifice at the end of "Deep Freeze," the end of the Sub-Zero movie, his temporary reform in Batman Beyond, etc.) The Batman "Gotham Adventures" comics had some very good Mr. Freeze stories that bridged the gap between Nora's revival and how Freeze's head ended up in the possession of Wayne-Powers.
"Before Watchmen" preview and interview:
http://www.usatoday.com/life/comics/story/2012-06-04/Before-Watchmen-Minutemen-comic-book-series/55380956/1
So in the latest Batman:
Spoiler
One of the Court of Owls was revealed to believe he was Bruce's secret brother Thomas Wayne Jr. Bruce didn't seem/or didn't want to believe what he said but I'm very interested to see how this story progresses.
Synder's Batman is pretty great stuff. I recommend it.
I also got the Batman Incorporated hardcover and finished it this week. I really enjoyed it. It follows Bruce as he goes to different countries recruiting international heroes for his Batman army while new and obscure villains that Grant Morrison has given a spin all linked to Leviathan. The more time goes on the more I enjoy Morrison's Batman. I was a bit surprised by how much I enjoyed this series. The idea of Batman going around recruiting heroes I didn't really care about sounded like it'd be hard to get into but I didn't have any trouble with it.
Now I'm trying to decide whether to pick up the new series monthly or continue with trades. It reads well in trade format.
Spoiler
Giving Batman a brother might be a breath of fresh air...Making Batman's brother his enemy would be a bad cliche, though (IMHO). I've noticed that nearly all heroes (at both DC and Marvel) are only children...Weird.
Dana
Quote from: Podmark on June 15, 2012, 12:19:53 AM
So in the latest Batman:
Spoiler
One of the Court of Owls was revealed to believe he was Bruce's secret brother Thomas Wayne Jr. Bruce didn't seem/or didn't want to believe what he said but I'm very interested to see how this story progresses.
Synder's Batman is pretty great stuff. I recommend it.
I also got the Batman Incorporated hardcover and finished it this week. I really enjoyed it. It follows Bruce as he goes to different countries recruiting international heroes for his Batman army while new and obscure villains that Grant Morrison has given a spin all linked to Leviathan. The more time goes on the more I enjoy Morrison's Batman. I was a bit surprised by how much I enjoyed this series. The idea of Batman going around recruiting heroes I didn't really care about sounded like it'd be hard to get into but I didn't have any trouble with it.
Now I'm trying to decide whether to pick up the new series monthly or continue with trades. It reads well in trade format.
Snyder's Batman is really, really, reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally good. Latest issue blew my mind away.
You know I missed the initial run of Batman Inc. But I picked up the first issue of the new run thinking it tied into Night of Owls. Much to surprise, I was not disappointed that it didn't. I'll be checking this series out more and probably picking up the trade of the previous run.
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on June 17, 2012, 12:24:38 AM
Spoiler
Giving Batman a brother might be a breath of fresh air...Making Batman's brother his enemy would be a bad cliche, though (IMHO).
Good sir, you've forgotten to include your spoiler tags.
Oh crap...Sorry about that, Murs.
Dana
for those of you not following the "little league" comic on tumblr (you need to. srsly.) they've been running a little arc where they adopted some of the new 52 costumes temporarily... and I thought the conclusion was a pretty good summary of what DC's missing with the current reboot.
http://littleleaguecomic.tumblr.com/post/25621371238/enjoy-little-league-50-by-yale-stewart
Scott Lobdel strikes again:
Spoiler
TIM DRAKE WAS NEVER ROBIN
It can be hard for reporters to stay objective when it comes to news. When Scott Lobdell first said at the Young Justice panel at SDCC 2012 that Tim Drake was never a "Robin" and had simply adopted the guise of "Red Robin" upon first becoming Batman's sidekick, that objectivity was bound to be tested in a big way. Add in that he "was one of the few people to get really close to tracking down who Bruce is" and it seems we're dealing with an almost entirely new character.
This is some major revisionist history whether you're for or against it, and appears to hurt what made Tim Drake fundamentally different from the other Robins: he and he alone recognized that Batman needed a Robin. He alone figured out that Batman was Bruce Wayne (not to mention the identities of his associates). And he gave up everything by being Robin: his parents, his best friends, and his girlfriend all died along the way (yes, the latter three all came back, though two have just met him for the first time and one seems to be obliterated from all of DC Entertainment with The New 52).
Taking away Tim Drake's time as no-adjective Robin, or reducing his initial, natural detective skills, quite simply makes the character a different one from the sidekick, and from the hero that readers grew with for the last nearly 25 years. This may all lead to great stories -- everything has potential -- but it will need to do it fast to avoid giving long-time DC fans one more thing to be upset about. (Lucas Siegel/Newsarama.)
I fail to see the point of the change, it only makes the character less recognizable for the people who discovered him on the tv shows like BTAS or Young Justice.
Yes...
Spoiler
This baffles me as issues of Teen Titans and Batman and Robin have already implied that Tim was a Robin. This just seems like a needless change.
The solicits for that issue also claim that Tim is an Olympic class athlete and computer wiz. Being a high level athlete doesn't mesh with Tim's pre-reboot identity and has me concerned.
I will wait to read the issue before really judging it. Tim is one of my favorite comic characters and I don't have any real complaints with the reboot Tim yet.
Seriousley? Lobdell is the worst thing about the new 52. Everything he is writing is garbage...and I'm easily entertained person.
Quote from: murs47 on July 18, 2012, 05:44:56 AM
...and I'm easily entertained person.
I guess you are more self-aware than most give you credit for. Congrats, home girl.
Ok, latest issue of Wonder Woman was too good to be true...but it was true...and good. I do have a question though. Is the power set she revealed after removing her bracers new via Nu52?
I'm beginning to tire of most of the New DC titles I've been getting. They just keep doing the same types of things that they did before the reboot, and I'm just really not interested in many of these ideas. I've been thoroughly enjoying their new Flash book. In fact, it's been just about my favorite of the set, but several events from recent issues have left me disappointed. The same is true of the recent Aquaman arc, though for different reasons. If I can scrape out some time in the next while, I'd like to write up some reviews about what's happened so far in these books. Justice League has been entirely mediocre for most of its run so far. If I had to put a name to the vague disease these DC titles awaken in my mind, I think it would be this: Many of these books reek of desperation.
In the end, it seems a foregone conclusion that DC's shortsighted conduct will see my return to their books being rather short-lived in turn.
Well Benton, if you're in the market for a decent replacement dc book, the YJ books by Weisman have been amazing. I've told you this before, but no one listens to the crazy tomato man.
Quote from: murs47 on August 18, 2012, 03:47:25 PM
Ok, latest issue of Wonder Woman was too good to be true...but it was true...and good. I do have a question though. Is the power set she revealed after removing her bracers new via Nu52?
That's a new thing. How great was that book? I've been sayin' it since the reboot: Wonder Woman is definitely
the best DC book out now.
Quote from: laughing paradox on August 18, 2012, 11:35:19 PM
Quote from: murs47 on August 18, 2012, 03:47:25 PM
Ok, latest issue of Wonder Woman was too good to be true...but it was true...and good. I do have a question though. Is the power set she revealed after removing her bracers new via Nu52?
That's a new thing. How great was that book? I've been sayin' it since the reboot: Wonder Woman is definitely the best DC book out now.
qft!!
Please. It's Batman...then Wonder Woman.
Batman and Wonder Woman have both been quality titles since the relaunch last year, as has Flash. From a sales standpoint the New 52 has been quite a success for DC, but creatively I have some misgivings about it still. I don't actually think DC is putting out any more books that are high quality, but I do think that more of their quality books happen to be high profile characters compared to before the relaunch, where most of the quality books were the ones flying under a lot of people's radar.
Wonder Woman and Aquaman are the only titles that still receive my money. JL never got good (I was holding out), Teen Titans fell off a cliff (seriously this comic is just bad), and Superboy/Supergirl's pace just hasn't kept me interested.
Here's to year two of Wondy and the New Gods and Aquaman going somewhere with this Green Latnern-like talisman quest. Also where is Aqualad? He was such a huge part of Aquaman and it seems like Geoff is just deciding to ignore Jackson even though he and the Bermuda Triangle Mera people /Black Manta thing was infinitely more interesting then the "SEVEN".
Yeah AA, I hear you. I haven't read much with the new Aqualad, but I certainly liked what little I had seen. There were pretty interesting ideas behind him, which is more than can be said for a lot of characters. I have been fairly unimpressed with A) the character designs Johns is so proud of in this arc, and B) the general quality of the writing and plotting.
Has he even been seen post-52? According to wikipedia he was gonna be in TT (thank god that fell through) but "will instead appear in another book," but I don't see what else they could reasonably put him other than Aquaman.
For the record, I've been reasonably ok with Green Lantern. Sure, it's still more flash then substance, but it's been that way since Rebirth and nothing really changed with the book post N52. The origins of the indigo tribe were interesting, the black lantern stuff isn't really objectionable, at least not yet (I was worried that they were going to go all black lantern army on us again, but they scaled back black hand's powers a lot) and I'm hoping the conclusion of this arc, assuming it goes how it seems, will FINALLY end the constant "ZOMG the guardians are total pricks" storylines they've had going for an eternity.
Quote from: Tomato on August 20, 2012, 01:50:17 PM
Has he even been seen post-52? According to wikipedia he was gonna be in TT (thank god that fell through) but "will instead appear in another book," but I don't see what else they could reasonably put him other than Aquaman.
I'm glad he also didn't get Teen Titan-ed, none of those characters save Tim Drake have any connections to their mentors. Also I'm pretty sure they are going to reveal that "Bart Allen" is not in fact the grandson of Barry Allen (which sucks). It is sad that Teen Titans was always the book where I could a youthful perspective on heroics and their relations with their adult mentors but now it is just random dren happening to people with names of characters I use to love plus a gay (yet fun) character.
I miss the good ol' days of comics... :/
Quote from: AfghanAnt on August 20, 2012, 08:22:08 PMI miss the good ol' days of comics... :/
Whoa, careful there. That's a very slippery slope before you start sounding like an opinionated illustrator (on the sixth go 'round) or a certain aqua-fan. ;)
speaking of wonder woman
http://shelf-life.ew.com/2012/08/22/justice-league-12-exclusive/
Spoiler
so apparently they vanish away supes marriage, kill steve trever just so we can get the most boring, standard and crappy love story in the dc universe.
yaaaaaaaay originally
Comics: Rob Liefeld Calls It Quits at DC (http://www.superherohype.com/news/articles/172353-comics-rob-liefeld-calls-it-quits-at-dc)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8pqbv4y3N1qd0as9.gif)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4cebqF4HY1r3zat8.gif)
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6jnkc8y5E1rr7c36.gif)
I echo Midnite's sentiments, I just wish he walked before he ruined Hawk and Dove for me.
About Liefeld leaving:
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
About the "new Justice League couple":
Spoiler
While I agree with TUE about how obvious is pairing Superman and Wonder Woman, they never were a couple in any "main" version of the DCU, only in Elseworlds and such. So there are some interesting and new things they can do, BUT...Will the Superman and WW writers follow this? They will be treated as a couple in their own titles? Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, but I don't have a lot of faith on the DC guys.
Anyway, Stephy will be happy beyond words.
On the chance that it might have actually be good, I bought and read Teen Titans #12. Not only was it not good, it was terrible and yet again I am questioning why these teen superheroes have my favorite characters' names and powers are pretending to the 90s X-Men.
The only interesting piece of this confusing puzzle was...
Spoiler
I'm like 100% certain Cass has nothing to do with Amazons, Greek Myths, or Wonder Woman. She screams "HELA" which is an obviously a connection to Norse myths and they mention the end of the world. Pretty sure Cass' bad boyfriend Diesel (By Odin's Eye geez...) is going to be called Ragnarok or cause it. Cue Thor references and more pretending to be Marvel Comics.
Oh also...
Spoiler
I'm going to go ahead and call it now Cass is a Valkyrie or Odin's spawn or something...
Our buddy, Rob is vewy angry with DC, vewy angry indeed...
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/08/rob-liefeld-walks-off-three-dc-titles-to-preserve-my-sanity/
I thought Rob left a few weeks ago? I recall news of him twitter ranting being in the comic-sphere and how some of his comments were taken as insults to other creators. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else? Doubt it though.
Also, someone else is leaving DC. Odd exodus over there, yeah?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/08/10/editor-sean-mackiewicz-moves-from-dc-comics-to-skybound/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/08/10/editor-sean-mackiewicz-moves-from-dc-comics-to-skybound/)
QuoteBefore San Diego Comic Con, I began to hear rumours that Robert Kirkman had been approaching Marvel and DC editorial staff on behalf of his publishing imprint Skybound.
That seems to have born fruit today. Sina Grace has announced (http://www.skybound.com/skybound/2012/8/10/leap-of-faith.html)that Kirkman has hired Sean Mackiewicz as a Skybound editor, to replace Grace so he can focus on his own comic, L’il Depressed Boy and an upcoming graphic novel Not My Bag.
Sean Mackiewicz was an editor or assistant editor on New 52 books such as Aquaman, Green Lantern: New Guardians, Stormwatch and Suicide Squad, as well as Earth 2.
Quote from: murs47 on July 18, 2012, 05:44:56 AM
Seriousley? Lobdell is the worst thing about the new 52. Everything he is writing is garbage...and I'm easily entertained person.
I thought Liefeld was the worst thing about it? Oh well...
Dana :D :yipee
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on August 22, 2012, 08:05:20 PM
speaking of wonder woman
http://shelf-life.ew.com/2012/08/22/justice-league-12-exclusive/
Spoiler
so apparently they vanish away supes marriage, kill steve trever just so we can get the most boring, standard and crappy love story in the dc universe.
yaaaaaaaay originally
UGH....Yeah, go with the most predictable match up and you'll have a big seller...Snore. I was far more impressed with
Spoiler
Timm's match up of Wonder Woman and Batman in JLU.
Dana
Supes & WW... Good hype, bad planning.
http://www.the-gutters.com/comic/337-tone-rodriguez
I think Gutters has called this one the right way. DC's basically doing the equivalent of porn or trashy romance novels without actually graphically depicting the sexual act. Once you hit the climax, all that's left is to roll over and go to sleep.
DC probably could do good things with it, with the right writer and the right editorial support. But they won't.
Quote from: BlueBard on August 24, 2012, 01:10:32 PM
DC probably could do good things with it, with the right writer and the right editorial support. But they won't.
Yeah but where are they going to find any of those ingredents witht he current crop of writers or editors?!?!?! :blink:
Not sure if this has already been discussed but wow. I like it and I don't like it. I love the classic Captain Marvel but then again, Billy is no longer that hero. http://www.geeksofdoom.com/2012/03/06/hey-everybody-heres-the-first-look-at-dcs-shazam/
Update on Rob Liefeld situation, wow the guy is a nutjob
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/08/25/rob-liefeld-versus-tom-brevoort-oh-its-on/
Snyder just burned the crap out of The Rob.
QuoteSnyder: "Aw, I'll give you credit Rob! Batman might sell inspite of me and @GregCapullo as u say, but deathstroke & Hawkman failed because of you!"
Rob: "my sales went up on those books @Ssnyder1835 sorry bud."
Snyder: "Credit where it's due, brother :-) and that's all I'll say on that. Ah, comics." Followed of course by "Lol. And you can put that in your pouch and keep it for later :-)"
Ya Liefeld seems to have rlly lost it, and Snyder happens to be the new victim. And if u read or watch any interview with Snyder, the guy is one the most humble people in the business, Rob rlly is trying to kill his career here (u'd think his art would have done it by now).
I can't express just how enjoyable watching this meltdown has been. The insults to Brevoort had me laughing. (Get back to mixing and matching Avengers and X-men!)
Rob has been melting down for 2+ weeks straight then because I do remember that D-list comment he made before he officially "left" DC. I was shocked it was never brought up here.
yeah, the deadpool d-list stuff, quitting DC, badmouthing them, feuds with Snyder and Breevort, last time I checked he was even talking smack about Rich Johnston, the guy that runs bleeding cool. Or maybe he was just saying that the forums there were full of pissants.
Erik Larsen stepped up to kind of defend Liefeld a bit saying that it is quite difficult to tell how much of an impact a creator has on an established character like Batman, but when you also take into account the track record of Swamp Thing and American Vampire.... Snyder's influence on Batman becoming the premier batbook is unmistakable.
Something funny I stumbled across...
"And, before people start thinking I'm sounding all Liefeld" -Brad Walker
Heh heh heh.
I have to say, I lost my way with a lot of comics and part of the reason is what was said by the DC crew with Superman and Wonder Woman. I read comics mostly for fun and escape. Nothing wrong with serious stories or stories meant to make you think, etc. When you say you're doing this to be the talk of the cooler though? I'm out. Stories just for reaction are never worth a damn. Sure, the bump you may get from it goes up, but it will go down just as fast and is never worth it. Have to say, been disappointed as hell with all these crossover mega-storylines and things done to get people talking. They never serve the purpose of the character, their stories or the DC Universe as a whole.
Have to say, not much a reader of DC or Marvel lately. The comics I've been enjoying lately have mostly been from Dynamite.
-RTT
DC will have another Justice League, and look who is the leader...
Spoiler
The "late" Steve Trevor
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/new-justice-league-of-america.html
Quote from: John Jr. on August 27, 2012, 09:00:02 PM
DC will have another Justice League, and look who is the leader...
Spoiler
The "late" Steve Trevor
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/new-justice-league-of-america.html
(http://cdn2.superherohype.com/images/stories/2012/August/JLA_625.jpg)
Quote from: detourne_me on August 27, 2012, 11:36:00 AM
yeah, the deadpool d-list stuff, quitting DC, badmouthing them, feuds with Snyder and Breevort, last time I checked he was even talking smack about Rich Johnston, the guy that runs bleeding cool. Or maybe he was just saying that the forums there were full of pissants.
He also took a swipe at an artist working on one of his books. I wonder if something deeper is at the root of this. He's lashing out.
Is it me or is the first vibe you got out of this is...
Ultimate Avengers, done by DC... right down to Trevor taking the Fury role?
-RTT
Quote from: RTTingle on August 28, 2012, 03:23:25 AM
Is it me or is the first vibe you got out of this is...
Ultimate Avengers, done by DC... right down to Trevor taking the Fury role?
-RTT
It reminds me of "Extreme Justice", and this is a very bad memory...
Quote from: Previsionary on August 28, 2012, 03:17:16 AM
He also took a swipe at an artist working on one of his books. I wonder if something deeper is at the root of this. He's lashing out.
I've heard one person ponder if he's the second coming of Dave Sim. In any case, it's not especially surprising to me, considering how he reacted to Shatterstar being outted in X-Factor. The man seems to be accustomed to the taste of his own foot.
Yeah I've DRASTICALLY cut down my consumption of DC comics.
Batman, Wonder Woman, Animal Man, Swamp Thing and Frankenstein.
it was only a few months ago that I was buying 20 books a month.
I had to stop Justice League after issue 2, it was just awful, and this extreme justice thing looks just as bad.
This team doesn't look anything l like the team that is fighting the Justice League in the FCBD issue. Where is Element-Woman? Atom? Etc? Urgh this who NuDC thing with the exception for Wondie is just bad.
Also I totally agree with Steve Trevor being Nick Fury and A.R.G.U.S. oh come on. Hey DC, stop stealing ideas from Marvel when your comics were fine the way they were.
New Superman comic?
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/08/28/jim-lee-scott-snyder-man-of-steel/
More news about the "Power Couple":
Spoiler
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/08/28/the-last-page-of-justice-league-12/
http://www.newsarama.com/comics/superman-and-wonder-woman-love.html
Stephy cannot stop smiling about this one, she always hated the poor Lois.
I liked the part about the way society will react to the new couple. A lot of writers and readers complained how dating Wondy will make Superman "less human", so it's logical a lot of people in the fictional DCU will have the same reaction. A good writer can get something very interesting from this subplot...If DC get a good writer to write this one...
Oh god I just realized John's new Justice League of America reminds me of Bendis' New Avengers and not just cause of the art.
Also why not just make the recent Superman comic enjoyable instead of adding another one?
Quote from: AfghanAnt on August 28, 2012, 05:16:14 PM
This team doesn't look anything l like the team that is fighting the Justice League in the FCBD issue. Where is Element-Woman? Atom? Etc? Urgh this who NuDC thing with the exception for Wondie is just bad.
Also I totally agree with Steve Trevor being Nick Fury and A.R.G.U.S. oh come on. Hey DC, stop stealing ideas from Marvel when your comics were fine the way they were.
FCBD pic, I think Element-Woman is part of Justice League Dark, only person who's on Steve's league is the new GL, Hawkman, Green Arrow, Vibe and maybe Atom?
(http://www.geekrest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/trinity_war_FCBD_lantern.jpg)
See that is the confusing part. If Hawkman and Green Arrow are on the same team why are they fighting in this promo?
Quote from: AfghanAnt on August 28, 2012, 07:30:54 PM
See that is the confusing part. If Hawkman and Green Arrow are on the same team why are they fighting in this promo?
Like you said, it was a promo pic. Maybe the original plan was to have GA was on the JLA roster. In JLA #8, GA wanted to join the league. With all the last minutes changes DC keeps making. I doubt that's the final roster for Steve Trevor's league. :mellow:
Yeah, it didn't take DC long to completely lose my interest. By the way, that new GL costume is extremely ugly.
By the way, Midnight, your signature is entirely too mesmerizing.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 29, 2012, 01:47:59 AM
By the way, Midnight, your signature is entirely too mesmerizing.
And awesome. I miss those days.
Is the Darkseid from the Earth 2 titles the same guy form the Justice League first story arc? From the "Zero Issues" preview we know Earth 2 fought the Apokolips forces for years and they lost entire countries and their greatest heroes to "win" the war. But the young, unexperienced, League defeated Darkseid and his forces in days or even hours (and using Wonder Woman's "Let's blind him!" not so brilliant plan)?
My feelings on the new Green Lantern (http://tomatoisjp.tumblr.com/post/30998876655/damnit-dc) (WARNING, Language heavy!)
I'll agree, 4 Earth Lanterns are enough, this should have happened elsewhere.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 29, 2012, 01:47:59 AM
Yeah, it didn't take DC long to completely lose my interest. By the way, that new GL costume is extremely ugly.
By the way, Midnight, your signature is entirely too mesmerizing.
Looks like Mac Tonight from the old McDonalds commercials on crack.
My only real problems with the DCnU is (of course the seams, geez everyone is wearing armor-Superman, the most powerful man on the planet is wearing armor, does that not seem redundant to anyone else- and SEAMS ON EVERYTHING) but the Kents being dead and the lack of Wally West! C'mon, DC throw him a bone! Even Kyle Rayner is still around and Wally definitely is more deserving of headlining a book...or at least...you know...EXISTING.
Rebooting the reboot, or, why we "love" DC:
Spoiler
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/16/retconning-robin-out-of-teen-titans-1/
Fixed.
Whatever you posted, it's not showing up for me.
QuoteMy only real problems with the DCnU is (of course the seams, geez everyone is wearing armor-Superman, the most powerful man on the planet is wearing armor, does that not seem redundant to anyone else- and SEAMS ON EVERYTHING) but the Kents being dead and the lack of Wally West! C'mon, DC throw him a bone! Even Kyle Rayner is still around and Wally definitely is more deserving of headlining a book...or at least...you know...EXISTING.
DC is really weird like that. They're hesitant to even acknowledge the existence of Wally, Cass and Steph, presumably on the grounds that there's not an organic story-driven way to integrate them into the canon, yet Kyle remains, every male Robin remains, and they've been able to keep Solstice, a character who was only a few months old, in the Teen Titans books alongside the older characters, even in a tweaked form.
I thought DC rebooted their universe to made things less confusing, not more...
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/24/bat-times-they-are-a-bat-changin/
Quote from: John Jr. on September 25, 2012, 03:25:24 AM
I thought DC rebooted their universe to made things less confusing, not more...
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/24/bat-times-they-are-a-bat-changin/
This is the problem with only rebooting 3/4s of your universe. There's no way to fit everything Batman's supposed to still have done, along with all his various sidekicks, into the greatly condensed timeframe of the new DC universe.
So I read Teen Titans #0 today:
Spoiler
So Tim Drake, one of my favorite characters, is apparently not really Tim Drake in the New 52. His name is Tim but his last name is fake as his parents have been put in witness protection after an attack by the Penguin. Also he never figured out who Batman is and as we've all heard he started as Red Robin not Robin. Additionally he's a natural athlete and genius, and extremely ambitious.
Some pretty big changes to Tim's origin. Not quite sure how I feel about them just yet. Taken on their own I'm probably fine with them, but as the character I've known and loved for so long I'm not sure. Now the thing that bugs me the most isn't that he was never Robin, or a Drake, or discovered Bruce's identity. No, instead it's that now Tim was naturally awesome. That's not who Tim was before, Tim was the Robin any geek could become. Now he's young Bruce Wayne, and that's a pretty big change.
So far I've been okay with Tim's New 52 portrayal. He's not the same but he's been pretty close. We'll see how these new revelations affect me.
More Batman reveals from the zero issues: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/10-batman-revelations-from-zero-issues-1.html
That's terrible! Absolutely terrible!
Trying to make all of these changes fit and still have Hal Jordan's and Bruce Wayne's timelines pre-existing timelines still work has liquified my brain and made it run out of my ear.
Well, this is what happens when you try to have your cake and eat it too.
For my part, I'm extremely frustrated and more than a little disappointed, despite my low expectations. Ahh...man, they've just squandered such great potential...such wonderful ideas....I knew from the beginning that the bright spots couldn't carry them for long, nor would they last forever....and I tried very hard to not invest any hope in these guys...but it still makes me very sad. I've loved the Flash book from the first issue...yet even that title is really weakening. DC has made a profound and foundational mistake in all of this, and I see it extremely clearly with the Flash. He's a great character, and they created an interesting world for him...but honestly, the untold history they keep referring back to, the years of previous adventures the Flash is supposed to have had, they all seem more interesting than what is going on with most of the book. I want to read those stories. I want to see Barry become the Flash, meet these characters that are already his established villains, see the world grow....that's one of the many ways DC has strapped the albatross around their own necks. Instead of starting fresh, REALLY starting fresh, we get this very uneven experiment, and although the resulting world has interesting facets, its past seems more interesting than the current pockmarked age.
The Flash series, perhaps, is what makes me the most sad, because it is so close to an excellent book...but between the weakness of current stories, the frustrating revamps of classic villains (they all just scream "We're Ultimate and hip!" to me), and the needless inclusion of elements that trouble me, morally, I don't know that I can justify sticking with it.
Aquaman is another example. "The Others" storyline has just been dead weight. We're tossed into a tale already in motion. En media res may be a good storytelling tactic, it may work for the Iliad and Odyssey, but it isn't a panacea, and it doesn't work if you don't take the time to fill in the necessary history. We're presented with half a dozen new, completely unknown characters, told nothing about them at all, then asked to care about their trails, tribulations, and brutally violent deaths...if we had started with Aquaman's history with these guys, if we had seen him meet them, seen them developed, well, that is a story I would have enjoyed.
I'm debating whether to cancel all of my DC books, or just JLA. There's just so little heroism to be found in that book that, as much as I wish I could enjoy those stories, it is the easiest title to drop. Flash is tougher. Just as I had made my decision, they told a pretty decent and compelling story in the annual...though it was also crippled by a weak ending and the return of Grodd....their version of whom I really don't like. I feel like I need to at least ride out the current storyline with Aquaman, but my patience is wearing thin.
It all makes me more than a little anxious to return to the DCUG, to be honest. With so many examples of what not to do, it makes me long to do it right.
I have to agree, Benton. Aquaman, Swamp Thing, and Batman have really come out of this the best and I look forward to reading (reading about what happened online in the books anyway) what happened here monthly. Superman is my favorite superhero and I have made no secret about it, but they are trying way too hard to make this guy Emo-Man. They should change Action Comics to Angsty McAngst Comics. Grant Morrison is interesting and I am still following his take on the character since I trust him and know he plays the long game, but Superman's main title is going nowhere right now; this is NOT the world's greatest hero. I have no problem with going back to the social crusader version of the character from the 30's but he seems so indecisive and green, even in his own book and JLA which both take place in the modern day!(but you know, Batman has all his stuff under control as always, because he always has a plan for everything, because he's the....well, he's The Batman).
Tim...whatever his last name really is, but it sure ain't Drake. Wally West doesn't exist. Hal Jordan is dead or trapped in a Black Lantern ring in favor of making yet ANOTHER Earthling a GL. The JSA exists on a parallel Earth again. Barry Allen decided to model his costume after the characters in 'Tron'. Hawkman is a displaced Thanagarian again I guess, minus the Egyptian reincarnation angle. Martian Manhunter is not part of the league in favor of CYBORG!? Everyone has been around for five years...or at least acts like they are five years old. How is any of this better than what came before?
The biggest problem with DC's reboot is that it's only half a reboot (if that) and from what I've read not all creators have been 100% on the same page.
A true reboot should have started from day one. So you wouldn't have 4 Robins, you'd just be starting up the first one. A problem with this is that DC would risk alienating a large chunk of it's current audience with no guarantees anyone would buy into the new stuff. Another problem is that many of your writers were invested in those newer characters and story elements. Morrison wouldn't want to give up his Batman Inc stuff, Johns doesn't want to give up all the Green Lantern stuff he's been building up, etc. A third problem for DC is that they need to put out a certain number of titles (around 52) to maintain regular business.
If I'd been in charge I'd probably have done an incremental reboot. I wouldn't cancel any existing books (not for the reboot anyway) but I'd start up a handful of reboot books with top creative teams. These books would start up the New DC universe, so a Batman book, Superman, Green Lantern, maybe a few others, whatever makes sense. You'd need to make sure these writers and the editors are all on the same page and moving everything in a unified direction. As time goes on I'd introduce new books leading up to Justice League and continue until you'd built up a full new universe. Also it's important to tell fans up front that this is the plan.
At the same time I'd continue to publish the existing books, but I'd tell the writers that the long term plan is to move on to the Rebooted universe. Writers would be encouraged to think about proper endings to their books, but without a strict timeline to do so. As time went on books would come to an end/be cancelled, and eventually the universe would come to a close. Maybe quietly with a final Superman story, or maybe loudly with a big final event.
The idea is similar to how Marvel started up the Ultimate universe, but I'm not aware of any strong plan to replace the universe and clearly things didn't play out that way at all.
Anyway that's how I'd handle a company wide reboot (at either company). There's still problems that would arrive. It's still a universe of books and continuity will build up, but to me that's what super hero comics are and some version of that should always exist. To counter that I'd make it much easier for creators to make "elseworlds" style books that could even be ongoings.
On-going Elseworlds books, that would be cool.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on September 29, 2012, 12:49:56 AM
On-going Elseworlds books, that would be cool.
I second this. Something along the lines of Elseworld's featuring specific characters or something like Marvel's "What If..." books dealing with specific storylines.
I wish I could formulate half the opinions the rest of you can about the New 52, as myself I'm still at odds. I can say " enjoying some, but would enjoy better if " would sum me up.
A lot of the larger name franchise series became less interesting to me, the Batfamily books, Super books (well Superboy is kind of intriguing to me), Flash, ect. I still gobble up the Lantern books, if not out of force of habit, and probably enjoy the structure and storytelling on the main Green Lantern series the most. Surprisingly I don't really get excited for the Red Lanterns series as I thought the opposite effect would take hold. Unlike many, I wasn't riveted by Animal Man nor the Frankenstein stuff. Maybe it's not my personal cup of tea. I seem to be more enjoying Suicide Squad, Birds Of Prey, Stormwatch and Teen Titans than the rest for now. These seem a little more removed to me I guess and therefore a little more surprising...or maybe I'm on a team book kick, I dunno. My opinion of the zero issues was...well hard to place since their seemed to be a variation in what the books where trying to accomplish. Some read like just another issue of their respective series, some like something that should have been saved for a larger handbook or origins type 1-shot, some past stories. I probably could have done without that whole lot to be honest. Personally, just outside of the stories I was reading spontaneously ending as they did for everyone else, I lost my top favorite DC reads at the time prior (Secret Six, Doom Patrol and R.E.B.E.L.S.) I had a bummed out emotion coming in. I can say I'm not that let down ultimately and am enjoying it a bit more than I expected. I'm still reading them anyways, that much is true. I keep looking for comparisons to Jim Lee's Heroes Reborn and it's redux, WW3 (this was a four issue story where the revamped Marvel Universe was amalgamated with Wildstorm for those that don't know) for some reason, but I'm finding it less the case. Lastly, I can say I fully understand the " had to " reasons for this happening, in every detail, which I'm noting where it's happening at Marvel as well. I get it, and I get how things changed so the comics had to radically and fast too, but do find myself asking if they're taking advantage of the situation and maybe changing them too radically and in ways not for the better nor artistic presence, but more for what is tailored to the seemingly best marketing stratagem. Due to the had to's as well, I do not believe we will see a return to the DCU prior anytime soon nor am I going to fixate on hope for that, and will try instead to ride this and whatever comes next out and dig on what seems to appeal to me the best. It's curious to say the most, disorienting the least. Again it's also the new way of course though (where to begin with the huge shuffling process over at the other big company, oy!).
Anybody read part one of "Death of the Family" in Scott Snyder's Batman? I did and I thought it was great.
Spoiler
The Joker breaks into the GCPD and steals back his missing face, killing quite a few officers in the process, without being seen. He later broadcasts a video recording of a hostage being forced to read a message (a clear homage to The Dark Knight), who turns out to be descended from the victim of the very first Joker case. Batman talks with Alfred, Damien, Nightwing, Tim and Barbara, but tells them not to help him as he has to take of this himself. He claims the Joker is acting out of character. Next The Joker kills the Mayor of Gotham, causing victims to have a frown rather than a smile. Following a clue Batman goes to the ACE chemical plant, where the Red Hood fell in to become the Joker. He finds Harley Quinn who lures Batman into a trap, whereas he is locked in an acid vat. Harley tells Bats the Joker made her do this and he's going to do something bad. The main story ends with the Joker attacking Alfred at the front door of Wayne Manor. There's also a backup story about the Joker forcing Harley to help him with his plan.
I also read and I also loved it. It is good stuff.
Read it, as well as the Batgirl #13 prelude. I didn't read any of the other DCnU bat-books as of yet, sans the #0 issues, and was going to hold out but this crosses into other books I'm current on. I liked it, no real complaints. It already stands up as traditional Bat story, and seems that it will accomplish the job of answering a few lingering questions in DCnu (Harley's stuff in particular of interest to me, yes I'm one of those people).
Apparently DC took Gail Simone off of Batgirl...
...and she was notified via email.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2012/12/gail-simone-no-longer-the-writer-of-batgirl/
I want to give DC the benefit of the doubt on this one, since we don't know why she was taken off the book and she doesn't seem angry about it either... but it's dc, so I dunno. It seems to me like right now they wouldn't want to mess with one of the few well received books coming out of the new 52.
Dc has really lost me in recent months, going from 15+ books a month down to 6 (Batman, Wonder Woman, Batwoman, Animal Man, Swamp Thimg and Frankenstein)
This latest blunder....
Apparently Mike Nelson joked on twitter "what? You haven't put enough women in refrigerators?" and Gail tweeted back "funny you should mention that"
I had to cancel my pull due to financial reasons (I only had four books), but I was getting disappointed with the titles anyway. I was reading Earth 2, Nightwing, Green Arrow, and Flash. Had I been able to, I only would have kept the Flash going, I would have dropped the rest soon anyway.
DC has been making some real head scratching decisions lately. The Gail thing is just another example of a creator being forced off a title or a creator willingly leaving. There's been a few this year at DC. Makes one wonder what's happening behind the scenes.
If this is over ...
Spoiler
something terrible happening to Batgirl in the "Death of the Family" event, I will be angry.
Gail being kicked off Batgirl is really lame.
Snyder's leaving Swamp Thing too, but I think this is voluntary. I wonder who's going to take over? I might be dropping that book after rotworld
Quote from: detourne_me on December 11, 2012, 04:14:48 AM
Snyder's leaving Swamp Thing too, but I think this is voluntary. I wonder who's going to take over? I might be dropping that book after rotworld
Indeed. Unless duties are passed on to Lemire. One can hope!
Gail Simone is back on Batgirl.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/12/21/dc-comics-put-gail-simone-back-on-batgirl/
New 52 Dr Fate debut on the cover of Earth 2#11
http://redbird08.tumblr.com/post/40320724820/earth-2-11-the-new-dr-fate-looks-great-no-more
I actually think he looks awesome.
That is a pretty cool look.
Now there's a decent redesign. I prefer the blue, but that is pretty darn awesome looking, and no denying it.
Didn't Dr. Fate wear the black & gold in the Young Justice cartoon?
Color-wise, it looks good, but it's awful busy.
I must say it's a good idea...specially the fact that they added more Egyptian-based symbolism to the outfit, thus tying him more to his origin and all.
I just got hit with an idea: Dr. Moonknight.
Maybe it's the flu...
Dr Fate's been taking clothes from Donna Troy's closet? :lol:
Dana
Upcoming Batman Inc spoilers:
Spoiler
The New York Times revealed the (much speculated) death of Damian Wayne, aka Robin :(. I'm definitely sad to hear this. I didn't really care much about Damian when he first debuted but once I started to read books with him I quickly started to love him. I consider the character one of the best creations of the past several years. I'll definitely miss him (assuming he stays dead).
While I'm sad to see him go I am happy to see Morrison complete his story. I've thoroughly enjoyed his Batman work.
RIP Damian Wayne, your time was far too short. Long live the (likely) reign of Harper Row.
I don't talk much about the DC books I buy so here I go:
I'm largely disappointed in DC's line. I find their reboot very half-assed and there isn't much that I care about. I'm finally dropping Superboy. I didn't have a problem with this version baring little resemblance to the last version, but the book has lacked direction and gotten progressively less interesting. I'm still picking up Teen Titans and Justice League and they've been okay. I picked up the first issue of JLA and that was decent.
The real gems of the DC line (of the books I've read) are
Batman by Scott Synder and
Batman Incorporated by Grant Morrison. I absolutely recommend both of them. The Joker storyline in Batman was pretty gripping.
Not to interrupt any current conversations, but I was just recently taking a gander at some of DCs New 52 books in a local shop and like many of you found myself frustrated at their odd attempt at a reboot. I never understood why they wanted to do it in thei first place. It didn't make sense to me then. I've ignored it over the last 18 months. I come to this thread for the first time and see opinions changed very little from where many of you were at the beginning of the thread. And for those who have changed their opinion, it isn't a positive change.
I mean it made sense to do a reboot with the original crisis and for the most part it worked. It wasn't a wholesale reboot. It was for some, but for histories that weren't rebooted, we got some really awesome back stories that's has become a part of literally and cinematic history. That's what we had and we lived with it. Some characters got some rewired yet weird new characicterizations(Superman's origin, the mess made of Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman) but even those were retooled in successive reboots, which weren't real reboots, just altered histories.
That's not the New 52. It lost me. Not simply out of interest, but from confusion. I still really can't make heads or tails of what was rebooted(and why) and what wasn't and how the square the two. If they wanted to do a reboot, they should have did a full one and not just pick and choose. Just made a convoluted continuity MUCH more convoluted and confusing. They seriously should have kept the original runs. At this rate, I don't even need to convince anyone of a gaurantee of yet another reboot. That's like Peyton Manning guaranteeing a pass completion.
I can't even imagine what told them this was a good idea.
Just my two cent rant. Sorry.
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on February 27, 2013, 08:14:25 AM
I can't even imagine what told them this was a good idea.
I'll take a stab at that. Two words -- an accountant. <_<
They needed a sale boost which reboot provided at the time. They needed something to get the people to buy comics again. And nowadays its hard to get that with just good writting, u need something like reboot to grab media attention.
On the other hand tittles like Batman and Green Lantern were good sellers pre New52 so they didn't want to change much. They made a mess of things, made some unnecessary changes etc. But they increased the sales which was their goal, the reboot affected comic sales in general not just DC.
So, its just how things are nowadays, u need something like New52 or Marvel NOW! to grab people's attention, and if it sells, both companies will do reboots and renumberings.
As for the quality of the stories, some are good some are bad. Batman line of books is really good right now, there is something for everyone. WW is amusing, and I like Earth 2. Heard good things about Swamp Thing and Animal Man. But I don't like what they did to Superman, Teen Titans etc.
Quote from: daglob on February 01, 2013, 10:23:51 PM
I just got hit with an idea: Dr. Moonknight.
Maybe it's the flu...
I wouldn't mind seeing that. :D
Quote from: Podmark on February 26, 2013, 04:15:35 AM
Upcoming Batman Inc spoilers:
Spoiler
The New York Times revealed the (much speculated) death of Damian Wayne, aka Robin :(. I'm definitely sad to hear this. I didn't really care much about Damian when he first debuted but once I started to read books with him I quickly started to love him. I consider the character one of the best creations of the past several years. I'll definitely miss him (assuming he stays dead).
While I'm sad to see him go I am happy to see Morrison complete his story. I've thoroughly enjoyed his Batman work.
RIP Damian Wayne, your time was far too short. Long live the (likely) reign of Harper Row.
What an absolute terrible decision. It seems so difficult to create a new character that people gravitate towards in the Marvel and DC universe. But yeah, let's kill them off. *eye roll*
Agreed....a true waste. I didn't like the character much but I hate the direction this story is going and I don't see anything coming out of it that hasn't been done before.....possibly better...with the same main character.
Urg...DC continues to disappoint.
You know, I'm still getting Flash, Justice League, and Aquaman, but I'm pretty ready to cancel everything but Aquaman, which has at least kept my interest. The Atlantis attacks storyline in JL has been entertaining, but as always with these new DC books, I feel as if each issue is missing a few pages of story and development. It's just hard to justify the expense of these books, which, even when they are decent I always find myself describing with a caveat. "Well, Justice League was pretty good, but..." This dilemma is thrown into even sharper focus by the incredible quality of the rest of the books I'm buying. I read TMNT or Atomic Robo, and I am always thoroughly impressed by their quality. I'm simply never disappointed, and I can't wait for each following issue. Then there is the revived Larry Hama G.I. JOE book, in which every single new issue is better than the last. These other books I'm buying, their every outing ranks among the finest comics I've read, and they just constantly reflect the poverty of storytelling that exists in the DC books on my list. I may love the characters, but I think more and more that I can do without the current broken attempt to tell their stories.
I think that I'm going to cancel Justice League as soon as the Atlantis crossover is finished (though it may already be over, as I'm behind thanks to my comics being shipped to me from my old shop once they reach a certain value).
Ok something is seriously wrong in DC
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44383
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44391
Both Diggle and Failkov exit the books before first issues of their runs have hit stands! I mean WTH? This is ridicilous...
Yeah, I think DC has screwed the pooch pretty badly lately. They've already done the reboot thing, so they can't rely upon the "Ultimates" rebound that Marvel had in the late nineties.
I honestly can't think of a single way out of this for them aside from scrapping continuity altogether and going full anthology route, which wouldn't be that bad.
It would require relinquishing almost all editorial oversight, switching to a trade format for a while (Let Batman: Year Zero test the waters) put out self contained Batwoman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern stories that could easily be collected (BUT KEEP THEM WITHIN THE MAIN SERIES'), and then TRY to sort out the mess with Superman.
What is key is keeping the current numbering system, renumbering now would be like showing the world that the nu52 relaunch was a disaster. Think about how Batman Year One actually occurred within the normal batman series.. was it #472-476?
CYBORG SUPERMAN Making a New 52 Comeback? (http://www.newsarama.com/17608-cyborg-superman-making-a-new-52-comeback.html)
(http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/104/932/original/cyborgSuperman_02.jpg?1367431281)
DC Introduces 'JOKER's Daughter?!'
(http://www.newsarama.com/17441-dc-introduces-joker-s-daughter.html)
Well, I've cancelled everything but Aquaman. If something teased in a recent issue of that book comes true, I'll be dropping it as well:
Spoiler
A new character was introduced and addressed Mera as his "wife." If she was previously married, I'm out. One of my favorite things about Aquaman is the relationship he has with Mera. They're a happily married, monogamous couple, which is ridiculously rare in modern comics. I don't need or want any more complication along that line.
New 52 Cheshire and Bronze Tiger, seems like he's an actual Tiger now (or weretiger lol), I don't like it.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1368815912
James Robinson leaves Earth 2 and DC comics (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=45574)
Door continues to revolve.
That's weird ... didn't James Robinson also tease that he'd be doing a new Shade miniseries for DC?
From the latest issue of JLA, issue #4:
Spoiler
While infiltrating the Society of Super-Villains, Catwoman is shot in the head. Like, hardcore shot. Ted Cord shot. While robot duplicates are involved in the story (Professor Ivo is one of the villains in the book), there's a possible out that Selina's been swapped out for a robot. Plus I was under the impression she still has a ongoing solo book, so I would assume this is a fake out. Still, holy violence against women, Batman! (Well said, Robin!)
Also in that issue, we get the new 52 introduction of one Dr. Arthur Light, now a well-meaning scientist helping Amanda Waller and Steve Trevor's JLA. At the end of the issue it appears the bad guys are going to give him his classic powers and he will "become" Dr. Light.
Lastly, in a backup strip we are told J'onn Jonzz' new origin. In this version, he gains his psychological aversion to fire from guilt. His people died in a fire while he away on a rite of passage so he could be their new leader after the old man died. Interesting new take on it; I don't really any strong opinion on it one way or the other.
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 07, 2013, 10:25:53 PM
Well, I've cancelled everything but Aquaman. If something teased in a recent issue of that book comes true, I'll be dropping it as well:
Spoiler
A new character was introduced and addressed Mera as his "wife." If she was previously married, I'm out. One of my favorite things about Aquaman is the relationship he has with Mera. They're a happily married, monogamous couple, which is ridiculously rare in modern comics. I don't need or want any more complication along that line.
I disagree with the happily married and monogamous and that's not even a recent change. After Artie Jr died didn't Aquaman almost kill Mera and she later married his doppleganer and had another son? Also wasn't she sent to kill Arthur but later fell in love and defected from Xebel? And didn't Aquaman have a child while they were married with an Eskimo woman (Koyrak or something?) and didn't he later hook up with Dolphin which upset both Mera and Garth?
Quote from: AfghanAnt on May 30, 2013, 01:16:20 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 07, 2013, 10:25:53 PM
Well, I've cancelled everything but Aquaman. If something teased in a recent issue of that book comes true, I'll be dropping it as well:
Spoiler
A new character was introduced and addressed Mera as his "wife." If she was previously married, I'm out. One of my favorite things about Aquaman is the relationship he has with Mera. They're a happily married, monogamous couple, which is ridiculously rare in modern comics. I don't need or want any more complication along that line.
I disagree with the happily married and monogamous and that's not even a recent change. After Artie Jr died didn't Aquaman almost kill Mera and she later married his doppleganer and had another son? Also wasn't she sent to kill Arthur but later fell in love and defected from Xebel? And didn't Aquaman have a child while they were married with an Eskimo woman (Koyrak or something?) and didn't he later hook up with Dolphin which upset both Mera and Garth?
Most of which they actually did seem to fix with this new continuity, finally. The death of Aquaman's son is one of the low points of modern comics, and it just about irreparably damaged the character. No-one knew what to do with him for years. All of the really awful stuff that came out of that, Koryak (I REALLY hate Koryak), Mera's madness, Dolphin, and the general complete scum-bag nature of 90's Aquaman owes its existence to that event. Heck, it wasn't until Vol. 4 of Aquaman that they finally made a real stab at resolving things, but their efforts were torpedoed (hah!) by Aquaman being turned into a squid-faced guy...then being killed...gah, I really hate DC sometimes.
No, thankfully it seems that the worst thing the New 52's version of Aquaman had going for it was that Mera was an enemy turned friend for love, and that's a whole lot better than murdered son and estranged madness. While I think it was something of an unnecessary wrinkle, it didn't take anything away from their relationship. In fact, it made their romance all the more grand, in that she not only gave up her throne, she gave up EVERYTHING, duty, honor, everything.
I really enjoyed those two not having ridiculous amounts of drama and baggage. That was what the New 52 was supposed to do, and in the very singular case of Aquaman, it seemed like it actually hit the mark. It was really nice see those two getting to be what the characters were meant to be, partners in every sense, and a new melodramatic twist like that to which they recently alluded, well that really rubs me the wrong way.
I *shrug* I doubt they're going to do anything like that this early in the book Benton... the way it reads to me is that, if there IS/WAS an actual marriage between Mera and this dude(and he could just be spouting something that he feels SHOULD have happened, not what DID. We don't know yet), it will have been an arranged one and she clearly didn't love him like she loves Arthur. I can understand/relate to the desire to have one singular relationship that reflects the sanctity of marriage, but let's see where things go before we start making judgements. Mera is too important to the book so far to have her relationship with Arthur suddenly break over some contrived plot point, and I feel like this whole story is gonna end up as more of an excuse to get her to go back to Atlantis with him instead of hanging out on the beach buying groceries.
That said though, I wanted to throw a bit of personal perspective into the mix in case it IS a real marriage, arranged or otherwise:
Spoiler
Benton, what you need to understand about me is that, out of anyone on this board, I am probably the one who best understands where you're coming from in terms of marriage being a union between two people. I made a decision a long time ago that I would either find someone to spend the rest of my life with, or I would just stay single.
However, the reason I did that is because of my dad. When he was 18, he was seduced by a woman much more experienced then he was, ended up getting her pregnant, and, having been raised on tales of superheroes, did the honorable thing and supported her. And she took advantage of that, draining him of everything he held dear... including making him throw away every comic he owned because it didn't fit in her little perfect world. Comics that, today, would probably pay for every college bill I have. Eventually though, he had enough, and they finally divorced a few year later.
Eventually though, my dad met my mom. At the time, he was training to be an Arabic linguist for the Army, and she was studying to be a Hebrew linguist for the Air Force. The two married, and even over 25 years later they remain a happy, loving couple. I have never once, in 25 years, seen them really FIGHT. Small petty stuff sure, but nowhere near the same level as arguments I've seen from even close-knit families. They're the reason I refuse to settle for anything less than what they have, because I KNOW it exists.
What my parents have is amazing, and it is not less so because it's technically my dad's second marriage. So that's why, regardless of how this plays out, this silly plot twist doesn't bother me... as long as Mera and Arthur love each other, their marriage is still the valid one.
To be clear, I'm by no means giving up on the book yet, but I meant that if this turns into something tawdry and melodramatic, I'm going to give it up. I certainly hope you're right, 'Mato, but I'm glad you see my point.
Spoiler
I understand where you're coming from, 'Mato. I've often pondered on the nature of love and the implications of marriage in situations like that. My wife's parents went through something similar, though with less clear villany, and her mother ended up with a man who is obviously perfect for her and was a fantastic father to my Lady Grey to boot. There are moral questions involved that make me wonder, but in the end it is obvious that things are better this way than the other.
That's just my point, though. The world is full of that type of story, and the examples thereof are, if nothing else, sad in the waste and strife that they offer before their happy endings, even if they do end with bliss. I read comics, as I've stated before, not to see the flaws of the real world represented in bright colors, but to see those flaws smoothed over in a more heroic and idealistic setting. I want one relationship in comics that is spared that level of complication and strife, which I think you understand. For my part, I'm a hopeless romantic at heart, and a true believe in true love. It definitely exists, my friend. I've found it with Lady Grey, and I'm sure you will too. :)
http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/dan-didio-and-jim-lee-talk-dcs-september-event-villain-month
Seems that its all about events and gimmick covers these days lol, but this does sound interesting :)
Oh btw loving how bizzarro looks.
i remeber all of the old gimmick covers from back in the day, they just seemed like wallet breakers to me. i would rather see a good story that holds my attention than to see a gimmick cover that is going to add to my expenses.
Quote from: Amazo Version 2.2 on June 03, 2013, 04:48:43 PM
i remeber all of the old gimmick covers from back in the day, they just seemed like wallet breakers to me. i would rather see a good story that holds my attention than to see a gimmick cover that is going to add to my expenses.
Heh, unfortunately the latter is more likely than the former.
too true, my friend.
Quote from: Amazo Version 2.2 on June 03, 2013, 04:48:43 PM
i remeber all of the old gimmick covers from back in the day, they just seemed like wallet breakers to me. i would rather see a good story that holds my attention than to see a gimmick cover that is going to add to my expenses.
I have to admit, I am totally guilty of buying the variant and gimmick covers. I thought it was the coolest thing back then, not so much now. :thumbdown:
Benton, I've given what you've said quite a bit of thought... I'll put my response in spoilers because I don't know how lengthy it's going to get.
Spoiler
I think there's a very fine line that exists when it comes to superheroes being escapist fiction... on the one hand, stories with heroes who are constantly getting broken down all the time and/or constantly turn evil grates on my last nerve, but stories which have zero conflict and just exist have the bad guy of the week fight the hero are boring and I have no interest in them. For example, I've gotten very tired of Spiderman books because they seem to be just this endless torture of Peter Parker... no matter how much the dude overcomes the odds and still manages to be heroic, writers constantly find new ways to kick him in the business. By contrast, many of the early silver age stories (especially at DC) were so much about finding bizarre new villains for the hero to fight that I had no emotional attachment to the hero in question... they didn't have any problems for me to relate to.
I think what it boils down to is that at the end of the day, I want the character to have pathos, but not wallow in them. I want a character to worry about mundane stuff like having a relationship, paying bills, catching a cold, enduring cheesy chick flicks, etc. because it gives me something I can identify with because I deal with those things in my daily life. I also don't mind characters having flaws... a character who has issues controlling his temper is all the more heroic to me for being able to keep that in check.
That said, they should never be bogged down by it, and should eventually grow as a character. Again, Spiderman is a prime example of this. I don't mind the marriage thing upon reflection (going back to the original stories he didn't seem to have all that much chemistry with MJ, he just woke up one day and said he wanted to get married, and MJ was the only one in his life not running around in black leather. Not exactly the basis for a long lasting relationship.) but he still has the same job he had in college, and any progress he's made as a superhero (joining the avengers, etc.) has been eaten away by his recent possession.
What gets me about the whole marriage issue is that writers seem to want there to be this big checklist of things they want in order to have the "Perfect Superhero," for people to identify with and I think that's missing the point. Each character is unique, and having a wide range of marital situations (Roy Harper as a single dad, Aquaman married to the equally capable Mera, Batman as perpetually single) gives each character their own flavor. Every character being single and perpetually dating the person you know they're going to end up with is boring.
Thanks for the response, 'Mato, and I pretty much agree with everything you've said, though I wouldn't use modern iterations of the characters you cited as examples of the type of variety I'd like to see. Both of them have portrayals that are more tawdry and/or tortured than I care for.
Spoiler
That said, I don't want Silver Age stories, and I don't want perfect characters. I do, like you said, want characters where the melodrama doesn't drown me or the characters themselves. I don't read about characters that I like so that I can see them tortured unreasonably, nor is the world so bright and cheerful that I need some doses of vileness and ugliness to provide balance. Quite the opposite is true, in fact.
I love stories that are really touching, and I love stories of heroes overcoming great challenges, including their frailties, but they should overcome them, not constantly fail to be decent people. Green Arrow or Batman having trouble working with/trusting others is okay, if they learn to trust their friends and make peace, but if they are constantly irrationally abrasive and paranoid, they quickly become characters that I don't like and don't want to read about. I expect my heroes to act heroic, and that means a lot more than simply punching bad guys. I expect them to rise above pettiness, to be morally respectable, and to put others before themselves. That doesn't mean that heroes can't make mistakes, fall occasionally, or struggle with making the right decisions, but as I said, I want that to be the exception, and not the rule. The worlds of superhero comics that the big two have created are places of wonder and adventure. They should be relatively bright settings, full of hope and idealism, even though they are beset by threats and problems. I want to read about those worlds, not places as broken and troubled as our own world.
Like I said, I think we're mostly in agreement on the large scale, though we likely disagree on exactly where we'd draw the lines.
So, all of that having been said, I have actually read some comics this week! I got my big box 'o comics in the mail, and I've read four issues of
Flash,
Aquaman, and
Justice League (17-20 of each). I've cancelled Flash and JL already, but having preordered I'm getting the last books I've paid for. Following are some thoughts on these books:
Flash: There are so many things I love about this book, and yet there are so many things that frustrated me and gave me pause. Finally the negatives outweighed the positive, and these last four issues have just reconfirmed my decision to drop the book. The art is fantastic, and I love the way they tell their stories. If I wanted to point to a great visual storyteller in comics, Manapul is one of the first names I'd bring up. However, the stories they are telling frustrate me with their combinations of the fantastic with the discouraging. I like a lot of what they are doing with Barry and with some of the mysteries they are setting up, and I have enjoyed some of the portayals of the Rogues. Yet, in the end I'd rather go back to the beginning and read the stories that they aren't bothering to tell me. I'd like to see the first meeting of Flash and Captain Cold, the first meeting of our hero and Mirror Master. I'd like to learn what first motivated Heat Wave to turn to crime, and so on. That's a problem with the New 52 in general. They are starting in media res, which is a good tactic for storytelling, but a lousy tactic for reinventing the stories you want to tell. I often feel like I've tuned in too late and I've missed something important or interesting. What's more, they've made choices with characters that I've really, really disliked. Their version of Grodd is extremely boring and flat compared to the wonderful absurdity of an urbane gorilla who was racist against humans in an off-handed way, believing entirely in the superiority of gorillas with a certainty that was charming as well as ridiculous. The violent monster portrayed here is just not really that interesting. There are other issues that have left a bad taste in my mouth, but in the end the book just wasn't worth my money.
Justice League: The Atlantis arc was interesting, but like the entire run which has been marked by interesting plot
ideas, the execution left a good deal to be desired. I've noticed a trend with Johns' writing. I always feel like I'm missing two or three pages when I read one of his comics. He's got the opposite problem of a lot of comics these days, spending too little time on his arcs rather than too much. We're supposed to be living in an age of superior characterization in comics, but I feel like he never spends enough time with anything to actually get much characterization done, much less properly tell his stories. They always feel rushed and thin. Ocean Master's new costumes seems a bit boring. I think a bit more influence from his classic looks would have added some interest to it. I really would have liked to get to know him a bit better. Did anyone else think that, despite the body count of the Atlantian invasion, Ocean Master's fate seemed a bit cold? Specifically:
Spoiler
The fact that Aquaman just turns him over to rot in prison, despite the fact that he's not part of the surface culture and that his attack, in his eyes, was an entirely justified act of war? I don't know, but the last panel with him sitting in the cell, asking for his brother, really struck me. That's good storytelling on one hand, but it also really makes Aquaman seem cruel on another. It seems like some other type of resolution might have been possible.
Once again, the problem of starting in the middle hurts the story being told here, as we've got lots of references to stories that we haven't been told yet. I'd like to have read those tales first. It would have made what happens here carry more weight. I understand the motivation of the twist in this arc, but I didn't care for it. I liked the character, and this effectively ruins him for this DC Universe. Also, I really hate the bloodthirsty, savage Hawkman we get here. I miss Katar. For that matter, I miss Ray and Rex. Zatanna's and Black Canary's new costumes are pretty stupid looking and bland.
The next issues, with the appearance of Despero and the recruiting drive were interesting, and there were actually some good character moments. However, I wish some of these pretenders would get out of my Watchtower and make room for characters I care about. ;) I suppose it's a moot point now. Anyway, Despero's attack was cool, until it was resolved in such a cheap way. I miss the JLU version of Despero. He was a good deal more interesting than "Blaaarg! Kill everyone!" Ohh, it's worth noting that I think the storyline with Batman and the boxes is handled relatively well here, and Bruce comes off as less sociopathic than some other versions of this story. That isn't to say it's perfect, but it could certainly be worse.
The Shazam backup isn't great. Billy Batson is a jerk. Yeah, yeah, hard childhood; whatever, he's not very likeable.
I'll say this for the book, though. It looks fantastic. I'm sad that the art doesn't serve more worthy material. I really, REALLY wish it was better, because I love the JLA. It's my favorite comic team, and it includes my favorite comic character. This is the book that I most wish was worth reading.
Aquaman: Arg..these stories are frustrating me as well, but mostly because they are really very good, but with a couple of glaring flaws. I love the tension between Arthur's responsibilities being explored. That's a core part of the character, and it provides great story grist. I like the parody that Murk is (bare chest, hook hand, etc.), and I can't wait for Arthur to slap him down,
hard. I really hope that's coming, and soon. I would love for them to keep exploring the Atlantian culture and setting. Once again, I wish we had gotten the 'first' stories first. I want to see Arthur discover Atlantis and learn about it. The Topo thing seemed pointless. I'd prefer something a
little closer to the original, and I think that could have been fun. The same is true of Tula. Gone is the light-hearted but heroic girl of Atlantis. These days everyone has to be super serious and hard edged. Ehh.
Color me curious about the ancient king.
What really bothered me, though, is the return of the Others in issue #20. As if we didn't get enough of these losers already. Once again Johns' 'mind the gap' storytelling rears its head, and we're thrown into a narrative that has little explanation or interest, and with characters that are very little more than vague powersets. The little reveal about jungle-woman-whatever-her-name-is only served to annoy me more, because it made the character even
less interesting, which was a neat feat. The fact that they left the Mera issue hanging to tell this story makes it all the more unforgivable. I don't like these characters, I don't know these characters, despite having read several comics featuring them at this point, and I certainly am not reading Aquaman to read about them.
Still, I'm curious about the stories that are developing in the background. Once again, touching on Orm makes me a bit uneasy with how he was treated. I think Aquaman needs to storm that prison and take his brother out of there, dead civilians or not. I understand its the creation of a villainous motivation we're seeing, but still...I sort of think that Aquaman is going to deserve the antagonism he's going to get in return for this. The book looks fantastic. The art here is, for my money, just about the prettiest in comics. I don't think it could get much better. I like the appearance of the Scavenger, and I hope we'll see lots more of him, and some more appearances by classic Aqua-foes. So, long story not-so-short, I'm still onboard until my next shipment of comics, at least.
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 09, 2013, 05:49:28 AM
Thanks for the response, 'Mato, and I pretty much agree with everything you've said, though I wouldn't use modern iterations of the characters you cited as examples of the type of variety I'd like to see. Both of them have portrayals that are more tawdry and/or tortured than I care for.
Modern-ish maybe, but not modern. Roy's daughter Liam was killed in a horrible crossover (same one where roy lost his arm) and now never existed. Because having a guy make do as a single father and genuinely love his child was apparently too complex for dc's writers <_<. As for Batman/Aquaman... aside from some stupidness along the way with Mera, that status quo for both characters has been around since the 60s/70s at least.
Well 'Mato, I'm using that term VERY broadly. Keep in mind, most of my comic reading experience is Silver and Bronze Age. As for Aquaman, the death of his sons is one of the most disastrous stories in comic history. It ruined the character for decades, as well as ruining his marriage and Mera's characterization.
I don't disagree about Arthur Jr... at least, not entirely. I think it gave the character a darker edge, but there were better ways of doing that then what they did, and the back and forth on his marriage to Mera was dumb.
As for Modern... I don't consider "Modern" to apply to things that were the status quo 10+ years ago and aren't now.
Quote from: Tomato on June 09, 2013, 07:06:56 PM
I don't disagree about Arthur Jr... at least, not entirely. I think it gave the character a darker edge, but there were better ways of doing that then what they did, and the back and forth on his marriage to Mera was dumb.
As for Modern... I don't consider "Modern" to apply to things that were the status quo 10+ years ago and aren't now.
Haha, it's all one to me, 'Mato. I don't insist on the terminology, though. :)
Any thoughts on the other books I wrote about or the recent Aquaman stories?
So, has no-one else been reading Flash, Aquaman, or Justice League who has any thoughts?
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 22, 2013, 09:57:09 AM
So, has no-one else been reading Flash, Aquaman, or Justice League who has any thoughts?
Although I do like tracking down old DC comics in the quarter bin, I don't keep up with the current comics.
Flash is the one book that I'd most be interested in following, although the (shortlived?)
Hawk & Dove relaunch also intrigues me, since they are reuniting Hank Hall & Dawn Granger for the first time since their tragic demise as a team in Armageddon 2001 (I hated that twist).
I'm curious to know what the future of Wally West and his apparently now-nonexistent legacy will be. I might just have to check out the
Flashpoint animated adaptation ASAP.
In that case, Winters, let me strongly recommend a very cheap and readily available series from the 90s that a lot of folks likely wouldn't think to pick up. The Batman Adventures and Batman and Robin Adventures, based in the Timm-verse continuity and sharing an art style with the Animated Series are both surprisingly good. I'd recommend stopping after those, rather than getting into the Gotham Adventures and the Lost years, though there are those who would defend those books to the death.
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 22, 2013, 09:57:09 AM
So, has no-one else been reading Flash, Aquaman, or Justice League who has any thoughts?
Used to read Justice League, but it was kinda meh even from the start. Artwork is nice, but other than that, I don't like the character interaction. They are sometimes way too hostile towards each other. They don't act like someone who spent last 6(?) years working together.
Before my finances went south, I was really enjoying the Flash book.
Also, in regards to Hawk and Dove, I'm a huge fan of the characters, but as far as the relaunch goes...Liefield thoroughly screwed it up. Definitely not worth the money I wasted.
Yeah, I know what you mean Bat. The team dynamic was okay, though not great, for the semi-origin arc, but after that they didn't really do much to create a great set of personalities. I think that's one of the things I don't much care for about a lot of these books. There's no real heart in most of these stories. They're all flash and no substance.
CB, that surprises me not at all. :P
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 22, 2013, 05:15:56 PM
In that case, Winters, let me strongly recommend a very cheap and readily available series from the 90s that a lot of folks likely wouldn't think to pick up. The Batman Adventures and Batman and Robin Adventures, based in the Timm-verse continuity and sharing an art style with the Animated Series are both surprisingly good. I'd recommend stopping after those, rather than getting into the Gotham Adventures and the Lost years, though there are those who would defend those books to the death.
Heh, I've already got most (if not all) of those! I followed the 1st two Batman series monthly as a kid, but have tried to track down cheap back issues I missed over the past 5 or so years. I like a number of those Gotham Adventures stories (especially the first 10 issues or so), but many of those issues have a "phoned in" quality to them, something which I would rarely say about the previous issues.
I find the Superman Adventures book to be a very strong series as well, which took some bold steps in some of their stories (they even found a way to do a Krypto story that had quite a somber ending!). I'm now starting to dabble with the short-lived "Adventures in the DC Universe" which is a neat envisioning of what the Timm-verse Justice League might have been before it actually was. I don't yet have any desire to bother with the Justice League Adventures though.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on June 22, 2013, 10:40:43 PM
Before my finances went south, I was really enjoying the Flash book.
Also, in regards to Hawk and Dove, I'm a huge fan of the characters, but as far as the relaunch goes...Liefield thoroughly screwed it up. Definitely not worth the money I wasted.
I took a peak at the New 52 #1 the other week but passed on it. The Liefield art was actually better than I expected, but I'm guessing the digital color probably covered up a number of his various problems. The ironic thing is that I really like his work on the 5-issue Hawk & Dove mini-series, which I think was his debut with the mainstream publishers. I can't really find any big problems with his art and it's got a very dynamic yet not over-the-top style that would soon characterize his Marvel work. The guy actually drew the feet to many characters and both male and female look fairly well proportioned. Sad to say, but I think Liefield probably peaked during that Hawk & Dove series.
That series is actually where my love of the characters came from. But yeah, sice then, Liefield went downhill fast.
Quote from: Cyber Burn on June 22, 2013, 11:42:51 PM
That series is actually where my love of the characters came from. But yeah, sice then, Liefield went downhill fast.
I'm curious to know how much Liefield's early art on Hawk and Dove benefited from Karl Kessel's inks. It's so strange. The guy demonstrates great attention to detail in those issues and only a couple of years later he starts going absolutely nuts with his exaggerated style. Did the guy just feel compelled to change everything to make himself stand out or did he get so busy that he couldn't put as much time into his later work as he did with the early H&D issues?
i called into pick up todays books and was asked about villain month coming up. confused i asked why
it turns out that each villain month comic has 4 covers so for example jla 7 will all be released with the same number but completely different stories
so JL #23: darksied will be totally different than JL:#23 lobo
so the guy at my shop asked which i wanted because if they had went with my current standing order and because i get JL and he put in all 4 of every dc comic i pick up my monthly bill would jump by nearly £200 -£250
so keep an eye out guys this villain month could really hit your wallet
Sooo glad I cancelled my pull. I really don't like the idea of having to spend an insane amount of money on gimmick ideas.
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on June 26, 2013, 09:01:25 PM
i called into pick up todays books and was asked about villain month coming up. confused i asked why
it turns out that each villain month comic has 4 covers so for example jla 7 will all be released with the same number but completely different stories
so JL #23: darksied will be totally different than JL:#23 lobo
so the guy at my shop asked which i wanted because if they had went with my current standing order and because i get JL and he put in all 4 of every dc comic i pick up my monthly bill would jump by nearly £200 -£250
so keep an eye out guys this villain month could really hit your wallet
Poor form, DC. Poor form.
I apologize if this sound overly negative, but after reading a lot of your posts, guys...Makes me think that DC is self-destructing. Red Robin was supposedly never a Robin, yet in Titans he is implied as having been one? It sounds like they can't even keep their new continuity straight? 52 variant covers for one book is nauseating, why would any company do that (other than attempting to rob their readers blind)?...It's a great way to turn off fans and make your product as inaccessible as possible, that's for sure.
I've never been a huge DC fan, I pretty much only love the Doom Patrol, but DC has ruined them...I'm pretty bummed out about it too.
Dana
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on July 27, 2013, 10:14:21 AM
I apologize if this sound overly negative, but after reading a lot of your posts, guys...Makes me think that DC is self-destructing. Red Robin was supposedly never a Robin, yet in Titans he is implied as having been one? It sounds like they can't even keep their new continuity straight? 52 variant covers for one book is nauseating, why would any company do that (other than attempting to rob their readers blind)?...It's a great way to turn off fans and make your product as inaccessible as possible, that's for sure.
I've never been a huge DC fan, I pretty much only love the Doom Patrol, but DC has ruined them...I'm pretty bummed out about it too.
Dana
Ya I remember the Robin thing, that was weird. But they retconned it later, it happens I guess. But still, to make that kind of mistake early in the new 52 is irresponsible.
While 52 variant covers is ridicilous, it was there to generate sales (which it did). Its a very common move by both DC and Marvel to have a lot of variant covers to boost sales, and it works. Not saying its something I like, but DC (and Marvel) are a business so yeah...
So finale of Morrison's Batman epic that started in 2006 came out today in Batman Inc#13
Spoiler
What a downer and utter disappointment this issue was. It feels like Grant just said f*** it and wrapped up the story. It felt heartless and even ends with a weird cliffhanger. Expected so much more...Oh ya and Kathy Kane is back, just to shoot Talia and dissapear...
Quote from: bat1987 on July 31, 2013, 07:41:03 PM
So finale of Morrison's Batman epic that started in 2006 came out today in Batman Inc#13
Spoiler
What a downer and utter disappointment this issue was. It feels like Grant just said f*** it and wrapped up the story. It felt heartless and even ends with a weird cliffhanger. Expected so much more...Oh ya and Kathy Kane is back, just to shoot Talia and dissapear...
Agreed. I almost wish Grant just never wrote the ending, leaving us readers to use our imaginations for an ending.
Kevin Maguire removed from Justice League 3000 via Facebook. (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47202)
EDIT:
...and replaced with Howard Porter (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47222)
*twitch* So, apparently, the final culmination of the Villains Month is gonna be the return of Earth 3, aka the Crime Syndicate of Amerika.
So if I start acting even more crazy than usual, it's because I'm torn between my current disgust with the New 52 and event comics in general; and my obsession with reading anything and everything CSA related.
Haven't bought a comic in a while, but for the CSA, I might have to check this out.
I actually found out about it because DC Collectibles just released teaser pics of a few N52 CSA figures... which aren't actually that different from the existing CSA designs (no silly lines all over the costume, just a few altered details like UM having a red belt), so I'm happy for that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's been in the works since E2, because there's a story in Batman which introduces an E1 version of Thomas Jr (a silly version which makes no sense, but a version nonetheless).
Quote from: Tomato on August 11, 2013, 12:01:38 AM
I actually found out about it because DC Collectibles just released teaser pics of a few N52 CSA figures... which aren't actually that different from the existing CSA designs (no silly lines all over the costume, just a few altered details like UM having a red belt), so I'm happy for that. I wouldn't be surprised if it's been in the works since E2, because there's a story in Batman which introduces an E1 version of Thomas Jr (a silly version which makes no sense, but a version nonetheless).
Could you please post a link to that 'Mato? I'd love to see them.
I have the image itself up on my antimato tumblr, but the link is http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=10&itemid=20869
Well it appears as though that DC might actually not screw this up too much.
Quote from: Tomato on August 11, 2013, 01:37:52 AM
I have the image itself up on my antimato tumblr, but the link is http://toynewsi.com/news.php?catid=10&itemid=20869
Very cool, seems that the CSA has the newly improved DCC articulation.
TBH, I don't think I'll be getting them, regardless of the articulation... I'm perfectly happy with the 5 pack CSA figures from the DCUC line, so without something unique to entice me (like a decent looking Aquaman analogue) I'd rather keep the figures I've got. DCC's getting enough of my money with the Arkham VG line.
But back to the comics... I honestly don't know what to think on this. On the one hand, the designs are an indication that we're keeping the characters true to their pre-52 roots, but on the other... DC has already taken Earth 2 and mangled it almost past recognition, and I love the Crime Syndicate too much to see that happen to Earth 3 as well.
Anyone been following Trinity War?
I've been enjoying it. I like seeing the three teams working together and I'm very interested in who the mystery villain behind the Society is.
Spoiler
Plot involves Superman having killed a new heroic Doctor Light. But he was controlled somehow and the three different Leagues have fractured following different lines of investigation. Pandora and her box are in it a lot. I don't really have much to say about the plot yet, still waiting to see how things shake out.
Of course this somehow leads to Forever Evil and the new CSA, which intrigues me.
Quote from: Podmark on August 17, 2013, 09:46:10 PM
Anyone been following Trinity War?
I've been enjoying it. I like seeing the three teams working together and I'm very interested in who the mystery villain behind the Society is.
I think the Outsider (the tall white dude)
Spoiler
is Alfred from alternate Earth. To support this theory, there were silver age stories where Alfred was turned into white skinned dude named Outsider, and if u look at what he did and his posture it makes sense.
All in all the crossover is fun, a bit chaotic but fun. The fact that we know CSA comes at the end of it kinda killed the momentum for me, would have been a nice surprise ending
Just read the last issue of Legion of Super heroes. By the clues in this issue it looks to be on Earth 2.
The New Sexy Lobo (http://www.themarysue.com/dc-new-lobo/)
[headdesk]
*barf*
This is coming from someone who doesn't like Lobo, that's is sooooo unnecessary.
Ha! I'm sure he'll be all angsty and mysterious too. Ohh my. It's sad when even a parody character becomes something of an embarrassment of shameless pandering.
This is so confusing considering Lobo has already debuted in Stormwatch.
So wan't Lobo supposed to be a kind of parody of the excesses in '90s comics?
Is this new one a parody of the dire straits DC are in now?
Quote from: AfghanAnt on August 25, 2013, 01:15:39 PM
This is so confusing considering Lobo has already debuted in Stormwatch.
From what I read that guy is going to be revealed to be an impostor. Which sounds kinda ridiculous.
To be honest I like the new design. Looks like a cool character...doesn't look like Lobo but still.
Quote from: bat1987 on August 25, 2013, 12:40:17 AM
*barf*
This is coming from someone who doesn't like Lobo, that's is sooooo unnecessary.
I think a barf gives this redesign too much credit. Not that I'm a fan of Lobo, but that look destroys the whole point of the character. Like putting Deadpool in a three-piece Armani suit and giving him non-lethal weaponry. He's supposed to be crude and outrageous.
GAH!!! Lobo man pretty?!?!? So wrong on so many levels!!!!
Unless, of course, that's how Lobo sees himself in a mirror....
Naaaah... he's not into self deception.
He must be on the same diet as the New 52 Amanda Waller.
Apparently the writer of the book said that he's nowhere near as skinny as the promo picture depicts him.
DC's marketing department is to blame if its true.
Except he still has pretty boy hair, still lacks any of the 90s tropes in his design that are a core part of his character (chains, massive guns, etc) and doesn't have nearly enough hair on his arms.
I have a mental image of new Lobo taking a drag on a cigar and breaking into a fit of coughing.
Like zoolander with black lung
"Beer? No, no, thank you.
"Perhaps some zinfandel and a little brie?"
Quote from: Starman on September 02, 2013, 08:23:43 AM
He must be on the same diet as the New 52 Amanda Waller.
Ha!
I swear, very little of the New 52 got under my skin more than that change.
Williams and Blackman Quit Batwoman Due to Ban on Kate and Maggie Marriage (http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/60350176589/williams-and-blackman-quit-batwoman-due-to-ban-on-kate)
Ouch
Batwoman, Batman and Wonder Woman were the only DC titles I was buying for over a year, I stopped buying them a few months back.
I really don't think Time Warner deserves my money.... but I just saw that Jeff Lemire has a new Vertigo miniseries. well, i guess i could just read that, and unless dc does something drastic to the new 52, i wont be going back.
Urgh. First the Orson Scott Card drama and now this...I am really enjoying Wonder Woman and reading stuff like this makes me want to stop supporting DC completely.
I could be wrong but I think it has more to do with the marriage thing in general rather than DC having problem with gay marriage.
They just dont want to have married characters because it makes them appear older is what Diddio said.
I do agree that the whole thing they are doing to their writters is pretty stupid, this situation included.
Quote from: bat1987 on September 05, 2013, 06:42:02 PM
I could be wrong but I think it has more to do with the marriage thing in general rather than DC having problem with gay marriage.
They just dont want to have married characters because it makes them appear older is what Diddio said.
I do agree that the whole thing they are doing to their writters is pretty stupid, this situation included.
That's just it; equating marriage to old is a pretty silly idea in general. Also the article states Williams and Blackman's ideas were constantly being rejected. There is only so much effort a creative team can put into a project after they have been depowered in their decision making.
Ehh. Y'all know how I feel about this stuff in comics, but the DC Universe of today isn't one I'm terribly interested in exploring anyway. Good for those two in sticking up for their principles/creative integrity, I suppose.
Disappointing news. I wasn't reading it but from all accounts it was one of DCs stronger books.
I really don't understand why DC seems to be so flip floppy with it's creative planning. We keep hearing these stories about last minute changes. You never hear this stuff coming out of Marvel.
Yeah, they seem equal parts draconian and confused...which is less than an ideal combination.
I really wonder what's going on in the collective heads of DC management these days. I used to love this universe, I get more indifferent to it every day.
I don't buy the idea that this is just them being averse to marriage in general - I think they got cold feet over having a gay marriage in their comics. (Which disappoints me greatly, by the way.)
Gay marriage is still a contentious issue, so they'd have to be politically blind to write this off as "just another marriage" and cancel it because it might make Kate Kane look a bit old and unrelatable. And you certainly would need a stronger reason to risk alienating readers who've rallied around her as a role model, and alienating one of your top creative teams.
It wouldn't surprise me if this mandate came down from some higher up at Warner Bros who had only just become aware of what was going on in this book.
IMO, they flinched more at the "marriage" part than the "gay" part, but who knows?
Does anymore remember hearing anything about how things were at Marvel when Bob Harass was in charge there? I gotta wonder if there are any similarities.
Also a record of the new 52 departures (http://guttersandpanels.com/gutters-and-panels/2013/3/23/the-new-52-timeline-of-departures) which really illustrate that things are not healthy in this company if I'm any judge. Like Dr.Mike, I used to love the universe, but now it's just a mess.
Dear lord, looks like a mess now that you look at it as a whole.
The only DC decision editorial wise I can get behind is the Diggle departure. From various reports that I read he had an "idea" of Superman loosing an arm and strugling with that.
If that is true I say good riddance. As for everything else, its sad, for the lack of better words.
Wow! Superman losing an arm sounds like a bundle of laughs. I thought that was Reed Richard's schtick - more recently in Fantastic Four he had trouble with one of his arms, and I believe back in the 70's he lost the ability to stretch one of his arms. I hated that storyline as a kid. :)
That's a rather sorry looking list there, Glitch Girl. It really makes me think back to reading 13 comics a week for a month, when the New 52 kicked off, and feeling my heart sink a little with pretty much every one of them. I bought all the #1's and was kind of amazed just how few of them grabbed me, no matter how much I wanted to like them.
I hope this is just part of the natural cycle of things. The core of these characters aren't going anywhere, and can hopefully be higher quality again in the future under better management and writers and artists with free-er reign and clearer directions.
Quote from: DrMike2000 on September 09, 2013, 02:07:05 AM
Wow! Superman losing an arm sounds like a bundle of laughs. I thought that was Reed Richard's schtick - more recently in Fantastic Four he had trouble with one of his arms, and I believe back in the 70's he lost the ability to stretch one of his arms. I hated that storyline as a kid. :)
That's a rather sorry looking list there, Glitch Girl. It really makes me think back to reading 13 comics a week for a month, when the New 52 kicked off, and feeling my heart sink a little with pretty much every one of them. I bought all the #1's and was kind of amazed just how few of them grabbed me, no matter how much I wanted to like them.
I hope this is just part of the natural cycle of things. The core of these characters aren't going anywhere, and can hopefully be higher quality again in the future under better management and writers and artists with free-er reign and clearer directions.
I have to admit DrMike, I also bought almost all of the #1 Issues hoping that something would garner my interest, but they pretty much all left a bad taste in my mouth.
For monday morning face-palm:
Aquaman and Mera aren't Married... wait, what? (http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/60591856619/mera-aquamans-wife-in-the-new-52-until-she-wasnt)
Related:
http://www.themarysue.com/dc-comics-no-marriage/
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/07/aquaman-is-not-married-to-mera-in-the-new-52/
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/08/dc-comics-and-the-war-against-marriage-comics-batwoman-aquaman/
QuoteAquaman and Mera were no longer married in New 52 continuity. And that Geoff Johns had very carefully written them in Aquaman and Justice League as if they were still married but had avoided any mention of that fact, or anyone actually referring to them as "husband" or "wife" of the other.
Honestly, the whole nu52 feels like a make-it-up-as-you-go-along fubar. No one knows what's going on, there are editorial edicts that make absolutely no sense, there's talent turnover faster than a carnival ride... go home DC brass, you're drunk.
I...oh come ON! Alright, I'm writing an ugly letter this afternoon. That much is certain. If DC doesn't backpedal within the next week, I'm cancelling my last DC book, Aquaman. I'm sick of this stuff. We've got basically one married superhero, and heaven forbid he do something that fits in with traditional morality. How dare he not just be shacking up! That's not young or hip enough. No one in America cares about marriage vows or believes that anything like that is important. No, no, don't be silly! Well, my growing disgust has reached an impressive new height.
Wouldn't hold my breath Benton, the big 2 think that marriage makes heroes old and unrelatable, lol. Not sure why married=old and boring in the eyes of the publishers...
Quote from: bat1987 on September 09, 2013, 07:29:41 PM
Wouldn't hold my breath Benton, the big 2 think that marriage makes heroes old and unrelatable, lol. Not sure why married=old and boring in the eyes of the publishers...
I'm not holding my breath. I'm girding myself to drop a book I'm actually moderately fond of on moral grounds. I can't in good conscience support DC anymore. As it was, they were straining the bounds of my tolerance, but this is definitely the last straw.
Ye I get it. I myself dont let things like this get to me, there are gonna be retcons, marriages, divorces, deaths, ressurections etc. these are comics after all.
If at the end of the day I like the story and am having fun reading it I can overlook some things. But I do understand when people cant get past some things no matter how hard they try.
At this point it's a moral issue for me. I don't want to give my money to people that, by all accounts, not only don't share, but also actively oppose, my values.
The Aquaman isn't married thing is pretty silly. If that's what they were always going for in the reboot they should have made that clear. Saying it now just makes it seem like they're trying to justify not allowing Batwoman to get married (which is probably the case).
I can understand publishers being averse to marrying off their characters. It's a significant change to a character's personal life and requires another character permanently become part of their regular cast. Also marriage moves characters one step closer to kids and retirement. Marvel and DC are focused on keeping their characters timeless so having them age like that is real problem. And because of the shared universe aspect of their comics if one character gets married it can affect age of all their other characters.
Ex. If Spider-Man started his crime fighting career before Franklin Richards was born, and Franklin now about 8 years old then Peter Parker has been Spider-Man for over 8 years. That can be problematic.
DC's reboot is just a mess. It's biggest problems are that it was never really a reboot, just a partial one that made everything confusing, and secondly there's no consistency.
That's true Pod, but it makes absolutely no freaking sense for characters who have been married for PRACTICALLY their entire history. Aquaman has been married to Mera since 1964. He was actually the first superhero to get married. Think about that. He was married before a good deal of comic characters were even created, before nearly all of the major events of comic history, and before most of us were born. With the exception of a brief period where they were separated/divorced in the PAD run (yet another reason I hate it), they've ALWAYS been married. This isn't true for any character other than Mr. Fantastic and Sue Storm, and even they took years and years to tie the knot. Dissolving their marriage in the first place is asinine, and even more so after presenting them AS a married couple for 23 issues of their new continuity. Add to that the very clear nature of their relationship, and it just comes off as a rejection of marriage itself. Whatever their intentions, the impression is downright appalling.
I agree with you Benton. The way they are saying that Aquaman was never married in this new continuity is just ridiculous. I've never read the new series myself but from all I've heard they were married. If DC wanted Aquaman to not be married then the start of the reboot was their chance, just like Superman. Doing it now just breaks their existing narrative.
That said I will be curious to see how far this actually goes. Sometimes comments at cons like this don't actually amount to much in the actual books.
Edit: In other news it seems Brian Buccellato and Francis Manapul are finishing their Flash run and moving to an upcoming DC series. I really love Manapul's art and he did a great Flash. I'll be curious what he does next.
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 09, 2013, 08:03:51 PM
At this point it's a moral issue for me. I don't want to give my money to people that, by all accounts, not only don't share, but also actively oppose, my values.
Fair enough.
All I can think to do at this point is facepalm. I haven't read any DC books in the last few months, but even the slightest chance of me picking up another DC comic is shot to hell now. Good job Didio.
Glad I'm not the only one, 'Mato.
It's sad, because I started out really looking forward to the reboot (I was in the minority on it I know) but with every passing month now DC's been digging themselves into a larger and larger hole. Compare that with Marvel, who have gotten their dren together to the point where I am happily reading at least several "Core" books (Books like Uncanny Avengers and All New X-men) rather then just a few books that were too minor to be swept up in event madness.
DC... even with the Crime Syndicate around the corner, I don't think I can bring myself to even pirate any more dc books. I am so done with them, as a company, that I can't even bring myself to read stories about a team I started an entire blog about.
You can't even bring yourself to pirate any more DC books? How will the company survive? ^_^
Well, I guess it's good I was never a DC comic supporter...course I'm now not a big Marvel Supporter like I used to be.
It's so sad, because this whole plan had tons of potential...though they were determined to waste almost all of it from the earliest outset. DC's schizophrenic approach to their world-building and storytelling has doomed whatever good ideas (like Aquaman) managed to leak through the fields of stupidity that surrounded their relaunch.
I like your picture there, 'Mato. Apt.
Quote from: Starman on September 11, 2013, 11:43:57 AM
You can't even bring yourself to pirate any more DC books? How will the company survive? ^_^
That didn't come off entirely as intended... what I meant was, I'm so disgusted I don't think I could bring myself to read anything they're putting out, even if it's just dling pirated copies (because really, there is no way I'm giving them ANY of my money after Didio's braindead comments).
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 11, 2013, 05:30:40 PM
It's so sad, because this whole plan had tons of potential...though they were determined to waste almost all of it from the earliest outset. DC's schizophrenic approach to their world-building and storytelling has doomed whatever good ideas (like Aquaman) managed to leak through the fields of stupidity that surrounded their relaunch.
I like your picture there, 'Mato. Apt.
Yeah, it'll probably stick around for awhile (http://tomatoisjp.tumblr.com/post/60909136756/new-avatar) before I go back to something Tomato-related. The magnitude of how utterly asinine this whole thing is has me quite angry at Didio and at DC as a company.
(Speaking of Aquaman, if anyone here REALLY wants to see a rant, I made a huge one about his portrayal in flashpoint (http://tomatoisjp.tumblr.com/post/58570781648/atopfourthwall-thanks-and-i-like) awhile back. It's oddly appropriate now)
There's a nice write up by Brett White in his (btw very awesome) blog today on Comic Book Resources:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47848
Basically he's just echoing the growing disenchantment with DC that I'm seeing around the net.
Thanks Dr. Mike. :)
My pleasure, Ant. :)
I find Brett's blog to be an awesome wellspring of enthusiasm, even when he's criticising something.
Benton - nice rant there. I haven't seen Flashpoint, but did sit through a couple of the DC movie length cartoons recently, and found them turgid and overwrought.
Luckily, I got into The Brave and the Bold cartoons recently, which have been the perfect antidote.
ok this is what confuses me why are they against marriage and a gay one of this standard
and i stress right from the get go this idea is not something i agree with or share with such a simple mindedness. but its a lesbian couple you really think some narrow viewed arse didnt go hey its lesbians let them shack up with can sell that to 14 year old boys. i was always a marvel kid aside from batman and it was bruce timm that got me into dc. to watch them slide head first into a brick wall when the new 52 had so much potential
i didnt read batwoman but seeing the reviews and awards it was getting i'm amazed dc didnt just let them run with it. but then again these are the same people who have turned MOTU into the pms braindead conan hour, have gail simone fired over email only to rehire her due to they're shock at the outrage, cancel demon knights etc etc
and then there is stuff like synders batman and the idea of the forever evil arc that give them another week :(
I have to say that one of the minor things that has been bothering me in life is that I don't have the finances to maintain a monthly comics pull anymore. But realistically, from the sounds of things, I'm really better off for not having one. Disappointing.
Quote from: DrMike2000 on September 17, 2013, 08:13:23 AM
Benton - nice rant there. I haven't seen Flashpoint, but did sit through a couple of the DC movie length cartoons recently, and found them turgid and overwrought.
Luckily, I got into The Brave and the Bold cartoons recently, which have been the perfect antidote.
...
Quote from: TOMATO on September 12, 2013, 03:38:19 AM
(Speaking of Aquaman, if anyone here REALLY wants to see a rant, I made a huge one about his portrayal in flashpoint (http://tomatoisjp.tumblr.com/post/58570781648/atopfourthwall-thanks-and-i-like) awhile back. It's oddly appropriate now)
To be fair, if I had written it, it would have been even more awesome. ;)
Haha, really though, that was pretty well-written, 'Mato, and I have to say, I didn't realize what the source of the feud between Aquaman and Wonder Woman actually WAS. That kills any interest I have in ever reading that story, because you are absolutely right.
Good op/ed piece on DC's current mode of practice (http://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-new-52-batwoman-harley-quinn-dan-didio-editorial/)
Sadly, I don't think I'm in the "biggest possible audience" they mention in that article. The New 52 comics I have enjoyed, like I, Vampire, Dial H, and Men of War, were all cancelled fairly quickly.
While I agree with almost everything in that article, I wouldn't even be generous about DC pleasing even the "straight white male who reads comics," even if that IS their intent. Benton and I both fall under that umbrella, and while we're very different in terms of our comic preferences, both of us have stopped reading DC comics because of the whole "no character is married in DC" thing. At this point, it's more like "nerds who never leave their parent's basement" demographic, and that is very, VERY short sighted.
Yeah, I've been with my wife for 18 years, married for 15 of them, family is important to me. I find it extremely difficult to support a company that isn't going to support family values such as marriage.
Oops. Sorry, Tomato. Great rant from YOU.
Yeah, I'm another member of their supposed core audience. I've been reading superhero comics for 30-odd years and I'm not digging this move at all.
The "no marriage" rule shows very flawed logic.
I agree with the starting point. One of the most exciting parts of modern life is falling in love - its the last adventure left to us in a world where we're generally not starving or fighting for survival. And it makes sense for fiction to focus on that aspect rather than the relative stability that follows. Take the Spiderman movies by Sam Raimi - the first two form a perfect whole of Peter and MJ's rocky road to getting together. The third movie has them arguing in a restaurant about who's career is more popular or something. (This doesn't mean you can't write a married couple well, but you have less easy material to mine.)
Anyway, DC seem to then go on and say "if our most popular characters are young and single, lets make ALL our characters young and single."
This is the dumb part of their argument. First off, it doesn't work. You know what made Wally West look young? Hanging out with grey-templed Jay Garrick and getting advice off him on being a superhero, or whether he should marry Linda. Ralph and Sue Dibny made Booster Gold and Beetle look more like a pair of likely lads by contrast. Reed and Sue provide contrast to Thing and Torch. etc.
Imagine if DC applied this logic to other groups.
All our most popular characters are male, lets phase out all females.
All our most popular characters are white, so phase out any black or Asian characters.
I've always favoured diversity. That applies to age and marital status too.
Check out the old "Thin Man" series. It shows that married couples can have adventures and be in love years after marriage (although Nora did get ditzier as the series went on). I know I've read a Clive Cussler book about married treasure hunters where their relationship was quite enteraining as they went through various adventures.
It's not the situations, it's whether or not the writer is good enough or creative enough to handle it.
Maybe lack of expierience?
Ralph and Sue Dibny were inspired by the Thin Man. DC managed to handle their relationship quite well until Identity Crisis...
I always though Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and Grant Morrison's Animal Man handled married protagonists really well ...
Meanwhile, over at Marvel comics (http://brianmichaelbendis.tumblr.com/post/61350829729/i-understand-trying-to-make-comics-female-friendly-but).
Arthur was even married to Mera on Smallville, the show in which they youthenized everyone. Hmm. I think Dido is just wrong. I think him saying that is something writers are just going to ignore. I mean, it was said out of story, it is not like the horrid thing that happened to spidermans family.
(http://www.geekexchange.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Aquaman-and-Mera-not-married-in-the-New-52.jpg)
the door revolves again
From CBR (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=48172)QuoteDuring the Las Vegas Comic Expo's Superman panel this weekend, writer Scott Lobdell announced he had been released from his duties as writer of "Teen Titans" by way of text message.
While I did not read Teen Titans, nor am I huge Lobdell fan, being fired via text message still seems kind of tacky.EDIT: See below
It also seems to be a trend. How ridiculously unprofessional is it to fire someone via text? E-mail is bad enough.
Edit: It was a joke
QuoteUPDATE 9/30/2013 8:45 AM PT: Scott Lobdell has clarified his comments at Las Vegas Comic Expo after being contacted by CBR, stating he was joking during his response to the question. Lobdell is still writing "Teen Titans" and has not been fired from the book via text message or otherwise.
I'm reminded of what someone was saying with regards to the Harley Quinn incident... when you have fostered an environment where you can say something that, in any other situation, would be recognised as a joke, and people instantly believe it, you are doing something wrong.
Yeah, 'Mato, exactly.
At first I hated the idea of updated Batman origin but maaan couple of issues in its been really great.
The latest issue (Batman#24) reminded me why I love comics
Spoiler
It has everything. The original first appearance cover tribute, updated Bob Kane costume, first Burton movie refference, another possible but still vague Joker origin, great art, the issue was packed! And its a double sized one so that was a nice surprise too.
So I finally got around to reading JLA #23.
I know I know. I made this whole big deal out of not reading DC Comics after the stunt they pulled with Aquaman. And really, I still see this as more an obligation then an actual desire to read these books, in the same way I feel obligated to re-read Countdown for a CSA review on that whole abomination of nature sometime down the line. That having been said... while I won't say the story is GREAT (I haven't read the whole trinity war to actually be invested in that EVENT book, and again, reading this out of obligation more than desire) but I DID see something that made me very happy.
(http://i.imgur.com/w9Xb727.jpg)
This panel right here. Now, I'm gonna be honest, if this design were around when I did that whole "CSA Aquaman" contest thingie, I wouldn't have bothered. Sure, it's not orange and green (though that'd just take a quick palette swap) but the design is very well done for a character who will apparently only ever be in a few panels in this continuity. It's a nice call back to the 90s costume (which works better as an EEEVVVVIIILLL version anyway), with enough new elements that give the "Sea King" his own unique flair. THIS is a CSA Aquaman I can get behind, unlike certain other abominations I could point out. It helps that this actually looks like a frelling AQUAMAN counterpart.
As for the actual event... I've still got a LOOOOT of comics to review before we get there, but so far... it's ok. They seem to be giving a legitimate reason behind the limited number of CSA members (which is nevertheless annoying since it cuts off potential story options of CSA Green Arrow meeting his counterpart but whatever) but the characters are well written in issue 23 and I like what's been done with Power Ring so far. I still won't forgive DC for mishandling of Aquaman's marriage, but I'm engaged enough to finish reading the event, at least.
It was cool when this CSA Aquaman walked out. It's a decent design. I was disappointed when he written out almost immediately. However I understand that the character appears in Phantom Stranger afterwards in some capacity.
So... apparently Supergirl is going to be a Red Lantern (http://www.newsarama.com/19526-guess-who-s-a-new-red-lantern-as-title-smashes-with-green-lantern-for-february-flipbook.html)
What. The. Hell?
This essay (http://comicboxcommentary.blogspot.com/2013/11/kara-as-red-lantern-really.html) sums up my feelings about this pretty well. I know I've given up on DC comics in general, but seriously guys, are you trying to make me actively hate you? Do the creators at DC have such miserable real life lives that it must spill over into the DCU, making it a joyless and grim place? Share the misery, so to speak?
Hmm. What are the odds, that the the counter at HasDCDoneSomethingStupid.com has gone back to zero?
Is there anyone out there who is still actually reading DC Universe titles? I get "Batman '66" and "Astro City" but I gave up the main DCU titles when I finally gave up "Aquaman".
Quote from: Kenn on November 12, 2013, 05:53:35 PM
Is there anyone out there who is still actually reading DC Universe titles? I get "Batman '66" and "Astro City" but I gave up the main DCU titles when I finally gave up "Aquaman".
I'm reading some stuff. Batman line of books is fun for the most part. Swamp Thing and Animal Man too. Wonder Woman is also pretty good. Justice league line of books I follow depending on the story. Some things they do are good some are bad...
Tbh I rarely post in this topic because the negativity has gotten way out of hand. Which is fine and all, everyone has a right to voice their opinion, just not my thing.
I read Scott Synder's Batman, as well as Geoff Johns' Justice League, JLA, and Forever Evil. I also get Grant Morrison's Batman Incorporated in trade format (just one more left).
Batman is a very good title, though I'm not huge on the current Zero Year story arc. The Joker and Owl stories were great though.
I became a big fan of Morrison's Batman run over time, and I'm very excited to see the ending (though I've heard mixed things).
I would recommend both series.
The Justice League books are a mixed bag. I liked Trinity War for the most part, and Forever Evil is okay so far. Johns has been pretty good at keeping me intrigued on JLA and Forever Evil.
Quote from: bat1987 on November 12, 2013, 06:29:19 PM
Tbh I rarely post in this topic because the negativity has gotten way out of hand. Which is fine and all, everyone has a right to voice their opinion, just not my thing.
I suspected this might be the case. This disappoints me. I like discussing my weekly comics.
I'd be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on Justice League, Pod. I dropped the book after Throne of Atlantis, so I haven't read a lot of the later stuff, but I was increasingly disappointed with it. I just found that I didn't particularly like any of the League as Johns portrayed them, and I didn't find their stories terribly interesting. It's weird, because I thought that the pieces of the book, the ideas of the plot and the basics of the characters, were all really interesting. I just didn't much care for how they came together. Part of the trouble is all of the books just feel so darn short. It's got to be really challenging to tell meaty stories given the multiple constraints DC writers face: limited page counts, pressure towards a trade-centric style, and a profusion of (admittedly beautiful) splash pages.
I meant to say that about Supergirl as a Red Lantern I don't really have any opinion without knowing what the story is.
Good question Benton. First off the art is always great, but that's no surprise it is the flagship book.
Generally I find the book is just okay. The conflicts always feel epic, but there's not all that much going on with the characters. That lack of character development would be my biggest problem, my other problem would be that the League rarely feel like a true team, and I think that's because they skipped to 5 years later and they spend half their time arguing with each other. The most interesting and relatable character for me was Steve Trevor, he just had more going on with his relationship with WW and being on the out with the team. Most of the other characters who were just there. Not surprising since so many of them belonged to other books. I did feel the book was getting better as it went on. The new additions (Firestorm, Element Woman, and Atom) helped keep me interested and the Shazam backups were pretty good, I found myself getting into Billy and Freddie's story.
I like JLA a more. The characters seemed to have more going on and there was a lot of intrigue around the Secret Society and the characters motivations.
Neither are my favorite books. To say more I'd probably have to go pull out my issues and refresh my memory.
So I've been meaning to come in here and give my thoughts on some of the comics I've been reading too.
Batman: Scott Synder's a excellent writer, and I am routinely impressed by his Batman book. However, I find it hard to get excited for it between issues. It's just a really solid, sometimes very impressive Batman solo book. Now I'll admit Death of the Family I thoroughly enjoyed, Capullo's art is great and Synder does seem to give Bruce at least one "Hell Yeah" moment every issue or so. I also find Harper Row interesting, I'd want to read more about her. I'm also not sure if I'll want to follow Batman Eternity as it comes out. I'd definitely read it in trade form but I don't know if I've got it in me to read that much Batman regularly; it'd be a real time sink and drain my wallet.
Justice League: The current book of Justice League I didn't really enjoy that much until the rookie characters showed up. I used to buy the Meltzer, McDuffie, and Robinson runs of JLA and always found the younger, less established characters more interesting since the writers were more free to actually DO stuff with them. I've found that to be true here. The art's great. Some of the trust issues between the characters get a little grating (why does Batman change his mind about Booster Gold's JLI?) though I got a big laugh at Batman spying on Superman and Wonder Woman's relationship because of how on the nose and typical paranoid-Batman it was. I call him the Bat-Voyeur.
Trinity War: I actually enjoyed the Trinity War. I found it started strong, got a bit dull in the middle, but had a pretty cool ending, even if it was a blatant lead in to Forever Evil.
Forever Evil: I'm enjoying reading the mean book, and the Justice League tie-ins to it have been decent. my biggest interest in FE is seeing what's gonna happen with Nightwing, and finding out the answers to the big mysteries in the book
Spoiler
("Who's the hooded guy" and "What threat ravaged the CSA's world?).
I'm also enjoying Luthor's role in the story, as well as the Rogue's, and the guest appearances by the Teen Titans (though I seem to recall having issues with how they were written/drawn)
JLA: I liked this more than Justice League, but not during FE. The tie in storyline in JLA is a weird, kinda dull filler-ish storyline, with poorer art than the book had before. I'll actually kinda awaiting the end of it so the book can get more interesting. I do marginally enjoy reading the origin of Stargirl though. I liked this version of the character.
Looking forward to Batman: Eternal. But only gonna get that in trade, since its weekly series.
I like Forever Evil for the most part but it feels a bit dragged out IMO. Justice league tie in is really good, especially Ultraman and Owlman's origins.
I agree with FE being dragged out, but I think a huge part of that is that the writers are having so much fun with the change of pace that they're in no real rush to go back immediately.
Me personally though, I'm in geek heaven. I've dedicated an entire blog (http://antimato.tumblr.com/) to the Crime Syndicate, and while my devotion will always be to the Morrison rendition (JLA: Omega notwithstanding) DC has been doing some really great work with the Crime Syndicate, and this entire crossover has been extremely well done. It's clear they put thought and effort into this whole event, and that this was planned out far enough in advance that they ironed out all the kinks before having to do retcons less than a year in.
Yes, I'm being a bit sarcastic, but if the entire N52 had been this well made, I'd still be as excited about it as I was in the beginning. I'll certainly be buying the trades of both the main book and justice league, though I'm going to wait for the inevitable "event" torrent to decide if I'm interested in anything else. The one I'd be most likely to get would be Aquaman, but I still haven't forgiven Didio for his nonsense, so I dunno. I'll wait to read it first.
Picked up 'tec 27 and I gotta say it was better than I expected. Although the story I was looking forward the most ended up being my least favorite (case of the crime syndicate) its a really nice collection.
Gothopia seems like its going to be fun, and Snyder's futuristic story I liked a lot, would make a cool canon future for Bruce.
Hey so Wally (http://www.newsarama.com/20031-wally-west-to-make-new-52-debut-the-flash-gets-new-creative-team.html) is coming back...that's good...hopefully...maybe....
Honestly I'm happy DC is using the character again but I have to reserve any further comment until I see the context.
Quote from: Podmark on January 14, 2014, 05:38:37 AM
Hey so Wally (http://www.newsarama.com/20031-wally-west-to-make-new-52-debut-the-flash-gets-new-creative-team.html) is coming back...that's good...hopefully...maybe....
Honestly I'm happy DC is using the character again but I have to reserve any further comment until I see the context.
Oddly enough he looks like Pollux which I'm not really happy with...gosh I miss the old DCU especially Connor Kent.
Quote from: Podmark on January 14, 2014, 05:38:37 AM
Hey so Wally (http://www.newsarama.com/20031-wally-west-to-make-new-52-debut-the-flash-gets-new-creative-team.html) is coming back...that's good...hopefully...maybe....
Honestly I'm happy DC is using the character again but I have to reserve any further comment until I see the context.
For me, Wally West
IS The Flash. He was The Flash that I grew up with, and I am very glad to know that he's coming back. Of course, I couldn't tell you the last time that I actually picked up a new comic book, so I probably won't be picking this one up either.
As for his costume, I have no problem with seeing a blue Flash, but this design is just too much, way overdone. DC needs to tone it down...a lot.
So I finally sat down and read through the Earth 2 books tonight... and just wow. I know I was in the camp that was kinda blah about Earth 2 originally... but this has been a fun ride.
Quote from: Tomato on January 26, 2014, 07:41:40 AM
So I finally sat down and read through the Earth 2 books tonight... and just wow. I know I was in the camp that was kinda blah about Earth 2 originally... but this has been a fun ride.
shame they spoiled the whole who is the new batman mystery with the announcement of the earth 2 toyline
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on January 26, 2014, 04:14:10 PM
Quote from: Tomato on January 26, 2014, 07:41:40 AM
So I finally sat down and read through the Earth 2 books tonight... and just wow. I know I was in the camp that was kinda blah about Earth 2 originally... but this has been a fun ride.
shame they spoiled the whole who is the new batman mystery with the announcement of the earth 2 toyline
Earth 2 and Wonder Woman are the only books I can stomach. Also I had no idea they spoiled who it was. I will go on living in ignorance.
EDIT:
Oh wait...I thought that spoiler was wrong? No?
James Robinson confirmed that the spoiler was legitimate, but honestly the only reason I knew about it was because people pointed it out. I'm sure we'll find out for sure this week, since Annual #2 is supposed to be Batman's origin
Quote from: Tomato on January 29, 2014, 11:55:42 PM
James Robinson confirmed that the spoiler was legitimate, but honestly the only reason I knew about it was because people pointed it out. I'm sure we'll find out for sure this week, since Annual #2 is supposed to be Batman's origin
It was ok. It wasn't written by Robinson (who is leaving DC). I'm actually sad that Earth 2 is going to go downhill now that he won't be handling it. I really enjoy this comic.
i read it but i'm torn, i like the idea that bruces parents weren't as squeaky clean and perfect as always. but i hate the fact that now batman is simply a old druggy murderer
Eh, it doesn't bother me because I see Earth 2 as more of an elseworlds, and it's more or less a convenient way for them to bring back the Flashpoint Batman.
As for Earth 2 suffering outside of Robinson's hands... while I have really enjoyed the writing on E2 so far, this is the same man who brought us Cry for Justice AND JLA:Omega. I'm willing to give another writer a decent shot at it.
Wow, that does not sound like something I'd enjoy. Ha, yikes. I'm curious to see what will happen with the change in Aquaman writer. I think that, with the head of steam Johns built up, a different writer could do a lot of good for the character and the book...especially if they will leave the freaking "Others" out of it.
Ehhh... You probably wouldn't Benton, but I think we're making it sound worse than it is... we're tiptoing around the spoiler of the current Batman's identity, so we're being overly vague about what happened.
Spoiler
Batman I, aka Bruce Wayne, is the same as he always was: he was his parents killed in front of him, dedicated his life to stopping crime, etc.
However, it turns out his Father was still alive. He'd gotten in big with the Mob before having Bruce, doing drugs and all that, but tried to back out when he became a father. The mob then sent a hitman after him, leaving him in nearly critical condition. Thomas then faked his own death, rationalizing his actions as being for Bruce's safety, and spent the next few decades plotting revenge.
It's during this revenge that Bruce discovers his father is still alive. But however much he loved his father, he also sees right through him: He's an addict, trading recreational drugs for Miraclo, a super-steroid. In disgust, he refuses all attempts by Thomas to get back into his life. Eventually, Bruce dies saving the world from Darkseid, never having reconciled with his father.
For Thomas, taking up the name of Batman is his means of honoring the son who died a better man than Thomas would ever be. And I appreciate that take on it.
But as TUE points out, this is still a man who killed mobsters out of revenge and takes drugs to get superstrength.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 31, 2014, 07:11:51 PM
I'm curious to see what will happen with the change in Aquaman writer. I think that, with the head of steam Johns built up, a different writer could do a lot of good for the character and the book...especially if they will leave the freaking "Others" out of it.
Actually DC is launching a new Aquaman and the Others ongoing in a few months. I think Dan Jurgens is writing it.
I know, and while it is super awesome that the Sea King is going to be headlining two books for the first time ever(!), I really can't stand the Others.
I know AA, that may seem a bit strange. Honestly, my dislike of them stems from the fact that they were basically shoved down my throat in the Aquaman book. All of a sudden, this group of characters are thrown at me, and I'm told, without knowing ANYTHING about them, 'care about them! See, they're interesting, and one of them is dead! Oh no!' Their subsequent experiences were similar, style over substance, and really unnecessary plot complications that took the focus off of the character for which I bought the book in the first place. Now they just sorta' annoy me.
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 02, 2014, 02:20:21 PM
I know AA, that may seem a bit strange. Honestly, my dislike of them stems from the fact that they were basically shoved down my throat in the Aquaman book. All of a sudden, this group of characters are thrown at me, and I'm told, without knowing ANYTHING about them, 'care about them! See, they're interesting, and one of them is dead! Oh no!' They're subsequent experiences were similar, style over substance, and really unnecessary plot complications that took the focus off of the character for which I bought the book in the first place. Now they just sorta' annoy me.
Got it. That pretty much sums up the whole Nu52.
That's true. I have CONSTANTLY found myself reading a story where a classic idea/story arc/character is glossed over in the rush to cover new ground (think of all the implied past adventures in Justice League), and fervently wishing to read THOSE stories rather than the ones being presented. I've often felt like DC writers are falling into the same problem a lot of modern narratives do (I've especially noticed this in movies these days), trying to imply more than they explain. When done well, such a tactic can create the illusion of a rich, deep history behind your narrative. (Think of the hints of a wider world in The Lord of the Rings) Yet, when done poorly, audiences just feel lost or unmoored in the story.
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 02, 2014, 07:36:52 PM
That's true. I have CONSTANTLY found myself reading a story where a classic idea/story arc/character is glossed over in the rush to cover new ground (think of all the implied past adventures in Justice League), and fervently wishing to read THOSE stories rather than the ones being presented. I've often felt like DC writers are falling into the same problem a lot of modern narratives do (I've especially noticed this in movies these days), trying to imply more than they explain. When done well, such a tactic can create the illusion of a rich, deep history behind your narrative. (Think of the hints of a wider world in The Lord of the Rings) Yet, when done poorly, audiences just feel lost or unmoored in the story.
I completely agree. It is so weird because at first I was like "yes this is going to be like an unboot with minor changes to make DC more grounded in the modern times". What we got was rotating creative teams, unfinished ideas, and the significant loss of epic history. As much as I like what is being done with Cyborg, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Earth 2 there is so much more I absolutely hate. Namely Teen Titans and it's lack of consistent history. They can't even decide if Tim Drake was a Robin or not. It really is a shame because DC Comics was the brand I loved as a child and now it is just some 90's Wildstorm/Image comics mess.
Don't get me started on teen titans, I finally caught up with the back issues I had. What in the hell is that. I knew superboy fans were annoyed at what had been done to Conner, but kid flash fans should bloody riot
Yeah... I choose to forget that Teen Titans even exists. It's right up there with Twilight in terms of "things I wish never happened"
AA, I feel exactly the same way. Heck, I spent years of my spare time composing a giant freaking love-letter to DC Comics. It is a shadow of its old self these days.
So Scott Synder's Batman title has been consumed by the Zero Year storyline which tells the New 52 version of Year One. It's a fine story, but I can't get that excited about it.
This week they took a break from Zero Year (to give artist Greg Capullo time to draw the next issue) for sneak peak at the upcoming weekly title Batman Eternal. This was a very nice change of pace and had a few things of interest to me:
Spoiler
The issue revealed that civilian cast member Harper Row will join Batman as Bluebird (http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/123/031/original/batman-28-bluebird-intro.jpg?1392215967). Harper was one character people thought might be the new Robin, but it seems she'll be a completely different colour bird. I like this. Builds the character, story, and cast without going straight to the old Robin persona (though there might very well be another character as Robin). That said I don't love the costume and uses shock pellet guns which doesn't seem quite right for an ally of Batman.
Spoiler (http://i.newsarama.com/images/i/000/123/036/original/batman-28-spoiler-revealed.jpg?1392216000) aka Stephanie Brown made her New 52 debut, and at first glance I like her updated costume.
There's also an unidentified person helping out at the cave in an oracle like role.
Also things seem to have taken a turn for the worse in Gotham. There's a curfew and mention of an infection. Also Catwoman is acting as a kingpin of Gotham's underground.
These kinds of developments have me pretty interested in what's coming up.
Batman is probably the only DC book (that I actually read) that I can legitimately recommend.
So Forever Evil 6....wow
Major spoilers ahead
Spoiler
So, Alexander Luthor is the hooded prisoner. Which is not as as surprising as the fact that he is Mazahs! (their version of Shazam obviously :P). While def not expected, seems kinda random that he is Shazam of their world. He also seems to be able to absorb their powers. Captain Cold was pretty hardcase here. Nightwing is strapped to a bomb that can only be deactivated when his heart stops. And I don't buy it for one sec that Nightwing is actually dead. Luthor said its under control (I'm assuming he stopped his breathing in order to stop the heart?). Hopefully they don't turn him into a Talon or something. Oh and it wasn't revealed what the threat that destroyed their world was. Guess we'll see the answers in the final issue.
Forever Evil was great but....
Spoiler
I wasn't too crazy and Batman stopping Luther. I know that Batman got emotional, but even I figure it out that if you stop his heart, you can then disarm the bomb and them give Nightwing CPR to bring him out. Batman should have thought of that first.
Quote from: JeyNyce on March 06, 2014, 05:07:44 PM
Forever Evil was great but....
Spoiler
I wasn't too crazy and Batman stopping Luther. I know that Batman got emotional, but even I figure it out that if you stop his heart, you can then disarm the bomb and them give Nightwing CPR to bring him out. Batman should have thought of that first.
Oh for sure
Spoiler
but since it was written by Geoff Johns, expect Batman to act totally out of character and be incompetent. If anyone else wrote this I'd surprised, but not Johns.
LoL, Forever Evil indeed, last issue has been delayed until 21st of may
http://www.previewsworld.com/Home/1/1/71/915?stockItemID=JAN140237
Also affected are JL, JLA, Nightwing and Suicide Squad.
No official reason was given but
Spoiler
Would be funny as hell if second time in a decade the editorial had creative differences over Dick Grayson's fate (the first being Infinite Crisis)
Quote from: bat1987 on March 24, 2014, 04:59:00 PM
LoL, Forever Evil indeed, last issue has been delayed until 21st of may
http://www.previewsworld.com/Home/1/1/71/915?stockItemID=JAN140237
Also affected are JL, JLA, Nightwing and Suicide Squad.
No official reason was given but
Spoiler
Would be funny as hell if second time in a decade the editorial had creative differences over Dick Grayson's fate (the first being Infinite Crisis)
I'd imagine it's slow art. Dave Finch isn't the fastest artist and I think some issues of Forever Evil were slightly delayed already.
The others being delayed is just a result of FE, I'm quite sure. Their stories will play off the final issue of FA.
Quote from: JeyNyce on March 06, 2014, 05:07:44 PM
Forever Evil was great but....
Spoiler
I wasn't too crazy and Batman stopping Luther. I know that Batman got emotional, but even I figure it out that if you stop his heart, you can then disarm the bomb and them give Nightwing CPR to bring him out. Batman should have thought of that first.
Yeah, I find it even sillier when you consider...
Spoiler
Temporarily stopping someone's heart to stop a bomb was a major plot point in Arkham Origins.
Waitaminit...
Spoiler
That was also The Chief of The Doom Patrol's origin. His ORIGINAL origin, 'way back in the '60s.
Ah......The classics, they never get old do they?
Anyone else excited about Earth-2?
It is easily becoming my favorite comics.
I am really enjoying Earth 2. I'm a HUGE JSA fan from way back. That being said, I love seeing new interpretations of these classic characters. I'm interested to see Val come to his true powers. Always hoping for a Hawkman to complement Hawkgirl. I love the interplay between all the characters. I'm going to be interested to see who else they brng in from the "old guard". DC already announced a weekly series called World's End: Earth 2.
I like Earth 2 and they may be bringing PG and Huntress back to it based on some images I have seen. I do miss the old fun Powergirl though.
I tend to shy away from alternate universe just because I already get too many books and it's tough to lump another line in. Your (AA) enthusiasm sold me on given it a go and the Worlds Collide event provided a good jump on point, as well I got wrangled into the Ultimates books now for Marvel via Hunger, so may as well. Which means I'm mostly only familiar now with Power Girl and Huntress, and a bit with the E2 Batman. I like the stories I read so far, more though the character depth. These ones are written as 3 dimensional persons that I can justify caring about their adventures as opposed to the polar end of flat plot mover ones, so it's good reading thus far by that account. Thanks for turning me onto it.
In other news, and not sound bratty, but that Forever Evil delay is turning into a bit of a thorn on my end and more so than I imagined it would. I'm finding I'm opening one comic after another, staring down at an unrecognizable setting and establishing point, immediately the first pages referencing FE#7 and indicating the story as fall out from that as yet unreleased comic, then finally me shutting the book again and placing it in a "hold" pile of sorts. Even now in the case of books that weren't directly tied in, like Flash for example. I won't shed skin over it and it'll be worked out eventually but I really can't hide what a bummer it is, and a tiny bit of shame on the publisher for dropping the ball that far.
Oh and the last Larfleeze issue was so great I spit my Pringles midchew. That book has become my modern " Sensational She-Hulk " replacement. I'm also really taken by Red Lantern Supergirl and everything else happening in the RL book, especially the ever increasing Zox character growth. Personally I'm overall happy with the way the new GL Family creative team is handling things, most of all in getting the various characters on equal footing instead having Hal always front and center. No love lost for Hal either, I just like seeing the other mainstays getting their due.
Spoiler
So Kon-El died/became Silver Surfer and Superman's alternate future son with Lois is now Superboy? Does anyone else have any details? I was so confused why Superboy was being called Jon.
Spoiler
I did some research on wikipedia (We can argue for days on the accuracy of that, but I'll take that over having anything to do with the teen titans comic) and... Superboy (Kon El) was killed, but it turns out that Kon-El is actually a clone of Superman and Lois' future son, Jon Lane-Kent, who has now gone back in time and plans to kill all metahumans, or something. It sounds immensely dumb, but no more so than anything else in the Teen Titans books lately.
@AA
Spoiler
Regarding Superboy as best and short and sweet as I can, Kon and Jon are two separate characters. I read all the related stuff so I'll try and pull the important bits from memory
- Begins during Forever Evil. The Crime Syndicate hijacks all of Earths communications via the character Grid and sends out a televised message to the world that they have Nightwing and reveal his true identity. Red Robin leads the Titans on a rescue mission but they are met by Johnny Quick and Atomica. Quick senses something in Kid Flash and " tugs on the timestream " which results in several of the Titans being tossed about time.
- The Titans will eventually converge in a single future timeline, which is the one where Kid Flash came from and participate in both a criminal trial revolving him as well a rebellion. Before Kon can meet up with them he runs into Jon, and evil alternate timeline Superboy. They fight and Kon beats Jon senseless.
- Kon is pulled through time and space again before reaching the Titans, now to Kryptons past to join in the at the time Superman cross-over (unsaid but Kon was essentially ripped from one story arc to other other here), along with Superman and Supergirl (Kara) against H'el, a foe who had been giving the three grief for some time.
- Kon pulls the big hero sacrifice play cementing himself as a " true hero " (Damian) and seemingly dies. Superman and Supergirl lament the fact.
- Meanwhile Jon is resuscitated (still in Kid Flash future here) and handed back to the Titans whom believe him to be Kon. Jon plays this out and returns to the present with them (Kid Flash and Solstice remain), It's hinted that Raven may be aware of Superboy's true identity.
- Jon poses as Superboy in the present in both his series and the Titans (Did this book end? It seemed like in the Annual this was the case?), like Octavius to Spider-man but not really the same body, and more malice intended than heroics. This is were it currently stands.
So about as convoluted as you figured. The quality of the Superboy comic feels the same if this means anything. Kon being the center character feels out of place and left field to me personally, though I also feel it's to soon to make a call on it as I don't know the extent of where this is going.
Forever Evil #7
Spoiler
Much of what I expected happens. Because of it's late release from other books I already knew 1.) Dick Grayson is presumed dead 2.) The CSA are beaten and the heroes return, not really a hard call to make 3.) The teams are reorganized and Luthor is in the League. I suspected as well that Dick wouldn't be dead rather said to be publicly in light of his secret identity becoming public knowledge. The fact that Nightwing is still ongoing in solicits was a clear indication of this. All in all I'll say it's a pretty good series in itself. Like most events I liked the mini-series that came next to it more, like the Gotham one and Rogues in this case. I'm not sure how to take Justice League United yet. With New 52 I tend to be more into the dark books, Green Lanterns and Superman series than all else. Really not feeling the upcoming creative shift on Superman. As usual everyone in his art looks like Kick-@$$ and constipated. Bleh. Red Daughter (Supergirl/Red Lanterns) is excellent imo. Sad to see (via JLU) that it isn't slated to last.
New 52 Wally West
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_super/0/6063/3841921-fls_5yl_3a_600_b_580_537e9528a925c0.97905178.jpg)
It's...kinda ugly. It's the top of the mask that's bugging me most. Maybe it'll look better if I see more images.
Of note this is the Future's End Wally from 5 years later. Regular Wally doesn't have powers yet from what I've heard.
^ What Podmark said. That's from Futures End which is an alternate future story with an even further in an alternate future Batman Beyond running around in it.
In present day in the Flash series Wally is just a powerless pre-teen. Though with the time shenanigans going on that book this could come to pass. A lot of people already got confused by solicits and thought the alternate future " blue Flash " was also the " new New 52 " present day one but this didn't turn out to be the case.
Agreed it's a gaudy look just by the image. Though it would make a good looking skin. So would the blue Flash. Hmmm?
Quote from: SickAlice on May 24, 2014, 02:01:36 PM
Agreed it's a gaudy look just by the image. Though it would make a good looking skin. So would the blue Flash. Hmmm?
Agreed, I think both would make for some nice Skins, but as for the Comics, both are just really overdesigned. Clean them up a bit, unclutter them, and I would be very happy.
Is anybody reading the Flash? How is the new Wally? Is he still funny or at least a wise-cracked or is he moody?
QuoteIs anybody reading the Flash? How is the new Wally? Is he still funny or at least a wise-cracked or is he moody?
Moody,annoying,rebellious....pretty much the average teenager with an attitude,I personally only still get Flash because of Brett Booth's fantastic artwork on speedsters but even Brett's rendition of Wally's outfit looks terrible to me.I just don't like the design at all whether its the colors,the armor look...I don't know,I just think it sucks and so does the current storyline.Hopefully with......
Spoiler
The debut of the New52 Anti Monitor we'll have a new Crisis for the 30th anniversary and get OUR Wally back&Donna too!
I haven't been reading Earth 2 ( a lot of you guys said it's good) Are they going to destroy that Universe? If they do, could it be possible that the Superman over there (the good one, not the evil one) will come over to the New 52 as ICON? I miss ICON and I would love to see him come back to the DC Universe
Soooooo, this just happened.
Spoiler
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/66303/3916743-screen+shot+2014-06-25+at+6.57.30+am.png)
Anyone alarmed by the development between Lex and Bruce?
I already knew because they mentioned it in the solicits.
Don't know about the Bruce/Lex development so can't comment on it. Dropped the book after the (admittedly really good) Forever Evil. While the Lex stuff in FE was fantastic and totally sold me on the new status quo, right now I'm too disenchanted with anything DC comics to care about anything not called Scott Snyder's Batman to bother, and I'm tired of DC's "let's do a crossover every five minutes" nonsense, and since Justice League is ALREADY about to do one with Justice League United, I opted to bow out and wait for the trades.
Quote from: trebean on June 27, 2014, 12:47:52 PM
Soooooo, this just happened.
Spoiler
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/6/66303/3916743-screen+shot+2014-06-25+at+6.57.30+am.png)
Spoiler
As a long time fan of Rex, Larry, Niles, Rita, and Cliff, I have to wonder if this might be as bad as the last one (which I saw the first issue of and NEVER EVER WANTED TO SEE AGAIN!
In the interest of fairness (and since some people might not know) I should probably mention:
Tecnhically, The DP already appeared in Forever Evil. But it was only obscure C list members who havn't appeared in comics in decades, and, this being a Geoff Johns event story, they only appeared briefly before being gutted like a trout. This debut is more the kind I think a long established team like the Doom Patrol deserved in the New 52, regardless of my feelings about the property or characters, or the quality of their last few runs of comics.
Yeah, other than Morisson, I don't think anyone has managed to write a Doom Patrol book that great. I'm gonna be a bit openminded to this since ELEMENT WOMAN!! and I liked Johns writing of the Doom Patrol in his TT Run (Albeit even just for a few issues)
Anyway, whatever happened to Ivan Reis? Mahnke is cool and all but his depiction of Element Woman looks off character IMO.
Funny you should mention: I loved Element Woman in John's JL book. I genuinely think that book got a lot better when the rookie characters were introduced. And you know, that splash page reminded me of that Teen Titans storyline and how much I enjoyed it (Tony Daniel's version of them looked way better IMO than Mahkne's here).
Yeah I missed Reis. Mahke is and always has been very hit and miss for me.
Quote from: trebean on June 28, 2014, 05:16:16 AM
Yeah, other than Morisson, I don't think anyone has managed to write a Doom Patrol book that great.
You have read the original 60's Arnold Drake run, haven't you? Because that was some pretty darn good stuff, especially for the time.
Quote from: kkhohoho on June 30, 2014, 04:17:59 AM
Quote from: trebean on June 28, 2014, 05:16:16 AM
Yeah, other than Morisson, I don't think anyone has managed to write a Doom Patrol book that great.
You have read the original 60's Arnold Drake run, haven't you? Because that was some pretty darn good stuff, especially for the time.
Not really but now that you mentioned it, I'm gonna try look for an archive or omnibus.
There are a couple of Showcase Presents with the original stories in them.
I alwasy felt that it was DC's attempt at dong a "Marvel" comic, and, while it had rough edges, it was pretty good.
Try to forget Mento's second costume, though...
Aside from Drake and Morrison, I didn't hate Rachel Pollack, Paul Kupperberg and Keith Giffen's runs on Doom Patrol, either. The only runs which haven't been enjoyable were from John Byrne and John Arcudi.
This sounds awesome!
http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=53962
Gail is a good writer. But her Batgirl was depressingly dark. The new direction sounds like something they should have started with.
And the new costume looks cool. Definitely different from the rest of the Bat family.
(http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/imglib/0/400/1/BATGIRLMODEL2-c3692.jpg)
Cool, but it sorely reminds me of Steph as Batgirl.
Looking at the context of the pitch, that costume is an appropriate change for someone who just lost resources, Babs isn't the Multi Billionaire Bruce is. I wont be surprised if this costume caught on in cons seeing as how simple it looks and how easy it probably is to make.... but enough coddling, I think this is just DC's answer to Ms Marvel, a great teen based comic series which reminded me a lot of Jaime Reyes as Blue Beetle (I miss that title, the plot was extremely original, something I've never even thought off or seen) seeing as how it's teenagers inherits veteran superhero name, tells friends, hijinks.
Quote from: trebean on July 10, 2014, 03:44:46 PM
Cool, but it sorely reminds me of Steph as Batgirl.
It really does. Then again, Babs had upbeat fun stories before. Batgirl: Year One is my favorite Barbara story and its def the tone I'd like to see here.
I like the costume, but it looks like they are going to make her younger, like around Tim's age and she is suppose to be around the same age as Nightwing.
Sad to see Gail is leaving, but this does sound pretty good! The costume looks neat and if the writers can pull off this "best elements of 'Veronica Mars' and 'Girls,' with a dash of 'Sherlock' thrown in for good measure" then that could be a good move for DC.
I've noticed DC trying to get a little more variety in their line. Seems like they're following Marvel a bit more.
Quote from: bat1987 on July 10, 2014, 02:57:32 PM
Gail is a good writer. But her Batgirl was depressingly dark.
Gail has publicly said on twitter that that was due to editorial meddling (due to an editor who's not on the book any more) and that she opted to leave the book on her own terms. She's said she's happy to see the new run will be more fun and light-hearted.
I really like Gail Simone as a writer, and she's a wonderful human being in an industry full of jerks, but unfortunately she's rarely been on books I'm interested in reading (especially after Secret Six was cancelled). I won't lie, her Batgirl run was tempting (especially when Ragdoll from Secret Six showed up, I may have to buy that issue some time) and I do have some issues of her Birds of Prey run I need to read at some point. If she was writing the new Suicide Squad series I definitely would have tried it.
The new costume looks pretty cool.
SS, yeah, I like her as a writer as well, but the only book she's ever been on that interested me was The All New Atom, which was awesome. It's a shame that she's had such a hard time at DC.
Batgirl is best served with a lighter tone, methinks, though the headlines I've seen of "hipster Batgirl" make me hurt inside. :P Ha, hopefully that's not what the writer is actually doing. :)
Honestly, to me, the 'new' costume doesn't look that much different from the old one, just a bit more modern. If you're going to advertise a 'new' costume, at least have it be truly new. Otherwise, you might as well just stick with what you've got.
Unlike most of us, I don't care for the costume much. It just seems...I don't know, too big of a departure, but then I wasn't crazy about the New 52 one either.
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 16, 2014, 05:20:49 PM
SS, yeah, I like her as a writer as well, but the only book she's ever been on that interested me was The All New Atom, which was awesome. It's a shame that she's had such a hard time at DC.
Funny thing about that, I read the first issue or two of All New Atom out of the bargain bin a few years ago (well after they first came out) and I remember I quite liked them. I always meant to read more of that series but never did ( I have A LOT of DC stuff from years past hanging around my place that I haven't read yet. I'm still trying to get through the first volume of Batman INC). Even her Action Comics run, which wasn't anything special (though it did have a tie-in to Villains United, which launched Secret Six, which appealed to me), was decent IMO.
Ohh, you should definitely read through The All New Atom! It really picks up after issue 10 or so. :) Yeah, I've got several incomplete runs lying around that I need to finish out and read one of these days. I've just got to find some time and some money. :P
A little late to the party, but I personally ADORE this new Batgirl costume. It still looks like "Batgirl", but is far more practical and just looks cool. I'd cosplay this in a heartbeat if I had the time and money to build it.
I like the costume, too ... it looks cool and functional without trying to be uncomfortably sexy.
Silver Shocker, I'd love to see Gail Simone on Suicide Squad ... that book has been painful to read since it was relaunched in the New 52, and I'd be keen to see what Simone could do with the characters.
Well, a big reason why I said that (other than that I really like Suicide Squad but the New 52 version never inspired much confidence in me based on its creative team, redesigns, ect) is because Simone was writing Secret Six before that, which was a spiritual successor to SS to begin with. She said that in many interviews, and original SS writer John Ostrander actually wrote an issue or two of the book (including a Deadshot spotlight issue, if I recall). In addition to that, the new SS book kept Deadshot and King Shark from S6 as to intice S6 fans to buy it (I didn't, but like I said, if Simone wrote it).
DC put out a reprint of the original Ostrander stories a years back and I got it and read through it. It's a bit dated in its writing style, but I still thought it was pretty darn good (and fun fact, I became a Suicide Squad fan mostly because of the SS mod for Freedom Force :) )
All of Ostrander's run was supposed to be collected but DC only released a single TPB, which unfortunately didn't sell well. Ostrander's run is one of my all time favourite DC Comics runs ... he really invigorated some old and underused characters, like Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Bronze Tiger, Count Vertigo, etc and created great new ones in Amanda Waller and Barbara Gordon's "Oracle" persona.
The guy is a very underrated writer but there doesn't seem to be enough of a youthful fanbase for his work to warrant DC giving him any current projects.
The New 52 Suicide Squad just isn't very interesting to me ... it has the shallowness and anonymous style of a lame action movie, with too much of a focus/fanservice on the New 52 sexpot Suicide Girl version of Harley Quinn.
I can say eleven issues in Future's End is exceeding my exceptions and has shaped up to be a solid comic book story and worth the price of admission. I don't feel like my time and money where wasted on it. I was nervous picking this one up given how out of left field it looked but it isn't disappointing and instead got better every issue. The characters and their moments together feel genuine which is a plus.
Didn't mean to interrupt, sorry. My stance on the New...or what the previous New Suicide Squad book (I liked the pre-DCnU title for that matter and of course Secret Six) is pretty obvious and that's that I'm a big fan. Though I wouldn't sell it as anything it isn't and like it for many of the reasons you guys might not. The Harley fanwanking for sure is a plus for me, I need more of it in my life. You left Waller wanking as well. My favorite parts of the run though turned out to be the character development of Deadshot and elaboration on King Shark. Like I said I like Secret Six but those guys were two dimensional clowns in that book, especially Shark and overshadowed by other characters in the series all while be played under Bane's top dog status. It was nice to see them get more attention and fleshed out. As for " New " well it's been one issue so not really much to go on. I'm interested to see what they do with Black Manta.
Speaking of rebooted books getting rebooted again recently, it's pretty cool that DC listened to all the negative feedback on Teen Titans and decided to scrap and reinvent the series. But, again mind it's only one issue but does it seem to anyone else that they reinvented...as the same thing it already was? Or am I not grasping what part of the dynamic actually shifted there?
Quote from: Starman on July 22, 2014, 09:27:21 AM
All of Ostrander's run was supposed to be collected but DC only released a single TPB, which unfortunately didn't sell well. Ostrander's run is one of my all time favourite DC Comics runs ... he really invigorated some old and underused characters, like Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Bronze Tiger, Count Vertigo, etc and created great new ones in Amanda Waller and Barbara Gordon's "Oracle" persona.
Oh I knew about that vol. 2, I would have bought that if it ever come out. It's disappointing, but understandable. I love that the Squad shows up in so many things now (video games, cartoon movies and live action shows) and that extra media exposure is probably a very good thing, I just wish that would help sell the earlier books.
I totally forgot that he made Babs into Oracle. That's awesome.
To me an ideal Squad has Deadshot, Captain Boomerang, Waller, and maybe Bronze Tiger. Which is why all the Assualt on Arkham stuff has made me very happy. I'm really hoping I'll enjoy that but honestly it'll have to be pretty flipping bad for me to not to.
QuoteThe guy is a very underrated writer but there doesn't seem to be enough of a youthful fanbase for his work to warrant DC giving him any current projects.
Well he did get to write Star Wars comics for many years, and if I recall correctly he was considered very good at it. That's not a bad gig.
QuoteMy stance on the New...or what the previous New Suicide Squad book (I liked the pre-DCnU title for that matter and of course Secret Six) is pretty obvious and that's that I'm a big fan.
There's nothing wrong with you liking it. If I ever read it and like it I'll happily concede it. For now though I just haven't bothered (it also sells out at my local store so I haven't been able to stock up on back issues during a sale, I have considered ordering a trade or two though) and a big reason is its never had a creative team or lineup that really grabbed me (though I do like that Patrick Zircher, who I loved on Thunderbolts and Cable & Deadpool, did work for the book).
QuoteMy favorite parts of the run though turned out to be the character development of Deadshot and elaboration on King Shark. Like I said I like Secret Six but those guys were two dimensional clowns in that book, especially Shark and overshadowed by other characters in the series all while be played under Bane's top dog status.
I'll grant you Shark, he was definitely a comic relief character, but I personally don't think Floyd Layton came off too badly in S6. Yes, he was mostly there to be a snarky jackass but I don't think he came off badly knowing what I knew about him from the SS stuff. To use a Ghostbusters analogy (since I love me some Ghostbusters), he was very much like Venkman in the comic book, whereby being more of a comic relief character made him seem more shallow and surly.
If I were selling Suicide Squad to someone, being the Glass run (the eventual writer toggling also makes summing it up difficult, at some Cheetah appears out of nowhere and vanishes again as well as Gordan Jr.) I guess I would sum it up saying " The plot and dialogue run like that of an action movie. Think superhero meets G.I.JOE. ". Not really a prolific read and it won't move you in any moments. I only note Glass here because it's considered the meat of the series and defined by him. I liked Zircher's run personally but it was it's own thing for the most part an to unfog the fact that we may be coming from different points of view as I've been speaking of the technical merits that were presented by Adam. Not to speak of the few other writers who eventually popped in and out before the series ended.
I watched a documentary on comic books last year and someone (can't remember, I think Palmiotti though) was speaking for how currently most comic writers were urged to write their books in a manner that they looked like potential movie scripts and storyboards as Hollywood was currently going through all books looking for the next golden goose egg, or something to this effect. I felt a lot of that there (noting I've seen few articles that insisting Suicide Squad/Task Force X is constantly being towards other mediums). Basically in agreement with Starman here except I enjoy a lame action movie every now and then so it appeals to me.
Have to agree to disagree on Floyd/S6 then sorry. I did enjoy him in S6, it was hard not to enjoy anything about that book but when I read him in it, as well Catman for that matter I just felt they were being underplayed to the other characters in the book and coming off as the 2d dimensional well, more the Latka than the Venkman to me. Venkman had character development, I didn't see much with Deadshot in S6. He was pretty much backdrop to characters like Bane, Scandal, Knockout and Ragdoll. Actually if we're going there I would say Deadshot is more the Venkman in Glass's SS run than S6 since the plot of Ghostbusters made light of what Peter's life concerns were and tied the plot into them. Suicide Squad seems to do the same for Deadshot, at least again the initial issues by Adam anyways.
Not to be criticizing the writing on Secret Six either, sorry if it sounds that way. Having backdrop characters when a large cast is present is almost always going to happen. More giving at least Glass's run a positive credit where I can find one and using what's available to contrast and illuminate it. I definitely put Secret Six over Suicide Squad DCnu in terms of overall quality and readability otherwise.
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While the subject of Harley Quinn is on the table my anaylisis of her series: This is a fun book and it's meant to be. If your looking for a dirty MAD Magazine style read then it's for you. If your looking for the deep relationship moments and serious character introspectives that found Harley in Gotham City Sirens then it isn't what your looking. It's a gross, goofy and often degrading to outright offensive read. I tend to see it as DC's softcore equilivant of Panty & Stocking With Garterbelt if the reference hit's with anyone. I almost feel while reading it that this is Amanda Conner sort of lashing out a repression of sorts born in her usually being cast as a sensitive, mindful writer and often lumped in as a feminist leader in ways. Her punk rock moment if you will. Because she doesn't bother to pander to anyone here in fact quite the opposite.So if gaffs, crudity and gross-out moments for the sake of it are your thing then give it a shot else avoid it. And of course the aforementioned Harley fanwaking. This book was obviously made for that exactly.
Does the New 52 Suicide Squad sell well? If the action movie formula is getting results (Silver Shocker mentioned its sold out at his local store), I'm okay with it.
As much as I loved Ostrander's Suicide Squad, the sales were never that hot and I can understand why it's never proven popular enough to be collected in TPB. People's comic reading habits change. I thought Greg Rucka's Checkmate run was more of a natural successor to Ostrander's Suicide Squad than Simone's Secret Six was ... but that series also sold super poorly!
I think the type of stuff I enjoy isn't really in vogue with the comic-reading mainstream at the moment :unsure:
I don't check the numbers so no clue. I know they hacked up the team getting rid of lesser knowns (the only point of contention I had to the writer change, too much story was lost when that happened) and replaced them with well knowns and guest stars (Cheetah, Gordan Jr., Power Girl, Steel, so on). Usually when that tact happens quickly it's partly because the numbers are down. Also the series was ended and relaunched again at #1 with more character changes and all even more popular (now Deathstroke and Black Manta for example). No inside knowledge but those are strong indicators it wasn't hitting the mark. Though don't quote me, this seems to be happening with many of the books by DC and Marvel and might just be the way everything's done and not a reflection of sales?
And like he said it's cool. Different preferences, all are welcome and needed. My favorite stuff right now isn't mainstream either, my top five list doesn't even include a title by Marvel or DC. My favorite reads by the big two as well are the real odd ones. But I " digest " anything I can get my hands on is pretty much the size of me. Because something isn't great doesn't mean I won't have an appreciation for it in a different way. More I just love comics period. Put something with captions in front of me and I focus on it happily. On the downside this makes me a terrible critique and person to take comic suggestions from, I'm too forgiving basically. But it's what floats my boat. *shrug*
SickAlice, what other DC New 52 stuff are you enjoying, besides Suicide Squad?
Sick Alice, just in case you weren't following me properly, I was strictly talking about the Ghostbusters comic book. In the movie Venkman's definitely the central character, with lots of time spent on his romance. In the comic book he's got a smaller role, with Egon and Winston being fleshed out more. Yes, there's definitely some character-centric stuff with him (the psychic encounter that shows him in his old college office is a good example) but that book also ran for a few years, and a lot of issues of that book have him just being surly.
Fair enough. I haven't read S6 in years so it's also entirely possible if I reread it I'd see it more your way, but yes, Catman was definitely given way more development than Floyd. I think I was fine with that because I really enjoyed the whole ensemble cast, and I recognize that in an ensemble cast some characters are often going to get a bigger spotlight. Plus with me not reading much DC these days (and with the New 52 leaving many of these older stories as a memory) I find myself waxing nostalgic to the books I enjoyed back then.
Starman, don't take what I said to mean that SS sells well everywhere. I have no idea what the numbers are and I'm strictly talking back issue bins well after the issues came out. My comic book shop's never been a good indicator for the greater comic buying public. Plus all that needs to happen for a book to sell out is for the shop to sell every copy they ordered. If they only ordered a few copies and people buy them, there you go.
I kind of thought you might be meaning from another form of media since Venkman is the class clown in most. But saying Ghostbusters brings the film to mind for me first and I was more grabbing your analogy to try and explain what I was saying a little better. Note too I didn't have a problem with the way Deadshot was portrayed in S6 either if it seems like I'm saying that. I enjoyed that series through and through and still re-read arcs to date. I guess the best way to put it is one of the points I can give SS was that it complimented the character by fleshing him out a bit. Not to mention of course giving dimension to the Wall and the lesser known members. I just didn't read Suicide Squad as a complete loss. Subpar for sure but I'm not certain they were actually trying to present anything poignant anyways.
So I hear they're turning Dick Grayson into a non-masked, gun-toting character.
If anyone here knows someone who works at DC Comics, please ask them to slap the living tar out of the editor who approved that idea.....
The first issue of "Grayson" was actually pretty good, I thought ... Dick had his secret identity revealed during Forever Evil and he's not going around shooting up bad guys. I also like that he's working for the Spyral organisation that was introduced with Batman Incorporated.
Quote from: GhostMachine on July 27, 2014, 05:22:24 AM
So I hear they're turning Dick Grayson into a non-masked, gun-toting character.
If anyone here knows someone who works at DC Comics, please ask them to slap the living tar out of the editor who approved that idea.....
I'm sure some of them would love to do that, but to paraphrase Kevin Smith, "But they don't do that, because they would like to keep their job".
Didn't really mind it, if it expands Dick as a character, then go for it.
Also, finally finished Larfleeze, and like any good Giffen and DeMatteis story, it had freaking G'NORT!
The ending was real cool too, who knew?
Spoiler
Larfleeze and G'nort are distant relatives...... darn now I'm just gonna dissapprove for those people who didn't buy this, causing it to get downsized into a miniseries rather than a regular
The Larfleeze series was all that and more. Needs to be on everyone's list. I would've been more sad to see it go if it hadn't ended so perfectly. And yeah, G'Nort!
So I just read about Grant Morrison's latest DC project Multiversity. I think I'll be buying some DC comics again...well at least the nine issues of the series.
DC Selfies month.
Gotta admit, even though the concept is beyond silly, I'm liking some of these covers. Espcially the Superman and Wonder Woman ones, though that Aquaman one is just goofy.
http://comicsalliance.com/joe-quinones-batman-66-selfie-cover-robin-dc-comics/
Oh gawd, the Aquaman cover, priceless BWAHAHAHA.
The Superman Batman Cover is neato too, but the Wonder Woman one..... ugh, I just don't get people who stick out their tounges, lol
Haha, those are sorta' neat in an odd way. Other than the ridiculously over-sexualized look that Catwoman is sporting these days, I like her cover. The cat struggling to get onto the counter cracks me up. :lol:
The Catwoman one kind of freaky. I can see her as an old cat lady living alone.
Yeah Jey, she's just a YOUNG cat lady living alone at the moment. ;)
Those are way cooler than they have any right to be, good stuff.
There's also a hilarious Alfred one
(http://cdn.hitfix.com/photos/5637026/batman.jpg)
Haha! That is AWESOME! :D
Justice League #32...
Spoiler
DOOM PATROL! HOORAY!
Spoiler
I see that they're picking the Chief is a dousebag direction, which is fine really, but for some reason, what was the need to alter ElastiGirl's power? Apparently she must always be smiling to co trol her molecular structure, which made explaining her power all the more confusing. Also, no Mento? On another note, I love the interaction between Billy and Cyborg, but Shazam's characterization..... kinda irks me, whatever happened to his Wisdom of Solomon? I'm all the more irked because Johns writing of Capt Marvel during his JSA days were quite good
ElastiGirl's power was the she can grown, kind of like Giant man, right? Then why is she called Elastigirl? This is why I could never fully get into Doom Patrol. I liked them, but they never held my interest.
Quote from: JeyNyce on August 04, 2014, 08:09:00 PM
ElastiGirl's power was the she can grown, kind of like Giant man, right? Then why is she called Elastigirl?
I think the writers knew that as well, because they eventually gave her the power to grow individual parts of her body as opposed to just becoming giant. In effect, it's like a variation on stretchy powers, thus earning her the name 'Elasti-girl.'
The original, original Elasti-Girl could both shrink and grow (exactly like Ant/Giant-Man), and learned how to alter one part of her body, usually her arm and hand, so she could smack someone across the room. Although there was this Brave and Bold team-up with The Flash where she enlarged one leg to cusion a fall from a height (or at least I think it was B&B). Sounds like it's some new incarnation of the DP, so I can't get too worked up over it.
I was pretty hyped regardless of their take. Mainly because I really loved the last incarnation and it was one of my biggest losses due to the reboot (hilarious commentary in that final issue from A.B.about the situation though). The other was R.E.B.E.L.S.
She has control of her Molecular Structure, meaning yeah, she can stretch, but what's the use of stretching if you can grow 30ft and stomp on your foes?
Well she's only been shown in a few pages in one book so far. Just saying it's not as if the full extent of her powers has been changed but more they haven't had the panel time to show it. The character is definitely presented as she should be sans the bit streamlining that most DCnU characters go through (as opposed to the extreme makeovers some have had).
Is DC planning on doing a Doom Patrol comic soon? It looks like they are going to introduce them in JL and then spin them off into their own series
I violently disliked the latest "Transformers" version of Cliff Steele/Robotman, so I have my doubts about liking any of this....Which makes me sad, because I loved the original Doom Patrol (even the most recent version by )...(just saw a preview...
Spoiler
Cliff Steele rebooted within the already messed-up DC reboot?...Ugh! Rita Starr?...Ugh again...It's Rita Farr, DC...Not Starr! Larry Trainor brown-nosing the Chief? Double ugh.
I'm also frankly tired of DC's reboots.
Dana
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on August 05, 2014, 07:20:01 PM
I violently disliked the latest "Transformers" version of Cliff Steele/Robotman, so I have my doubts about liking any of this....Which makes me sad, because I loved the original Doom Patrol (even the most recent version by )...(just saw a preview...Spoiler
Cliff Steele rebooted within the already messed-up DC reboot?...Ugh! Rita Starr?...Ugh again...It's Rita Farr, DC...Not Starr! Larry Trainor brown-nosing the Chief? Double ugh.
I'm also frankly tired of DC's reboots.
Dana
Spoiler
Uh? But she is called Rita Farr in the comic, Larry barely brownoses the Chief other than that one particular scene, I don't see what you meant by Cliff as a Transformer, since isn't he a robot it all of his incarnation? The only thing that slightly bugs me is how they're all just getting started again, I mean Larry's afraid to release Negative Man in fear of exposing his friends to deadly radiation.
So Earth 2
Spoiler
Quite a twist here...Turns out Brutale was E2 Bizarro or something, in other words a clone, not the real thing. I have to admit I didn't see it coming, but I like it quite a bit. He still had Superman's memories, and he himself thought that he was the real thing. Also liked Val's "you're boring" response, very cool. This concludes the "evil Superman" story, looking forward to what's coming next.
First it was Bombshell Girls
Now it Selfies
What's next? LEGO, in honor of Batman 3
http://www.newsarama.com/21821-more-dc-comics-lego-variant-covers-revealed.html
Is it just me or is DC finally starting to have... fun?
Nah.
(sidenote: EEEE!! Lego Frankenstein is ADORABLE!!)
Art from gotham academy
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-qUSNn_4UlMI/U-j-H-XZ1oI/AAAAAAAAU-s/BSpLRlSZPPo/s1600/tumblr_na5k4hdzaH1s5gizzo1_1280.png)
Looks fantastic!
That looks like a video game. Awesome!!
Lol, DC should just make a Batman Imprint
Quote from: JeyNyce on August 13, 2014, 01:15:13 PM
That looks like a video game. Awesome!!
Heh, it really does. I like it.
Quote from: trebean on August 06, 2014, 03:00:10 AM
Spoiler
Uh? But she is called Rita Farr in the comic, Larry barely brownoses the Chief other than that one particular scene, I don't see what you meant by Cliff as a Transformer, since isn't he a robot it all of his incarnation? The only thing that slightly bugs me is how they're all just getting started again, I mean Larry's afraid to release Negative Man in fear of exposing his friends to deadly radiation.
Trebean,
Spoiler
The "transformers version of Cliff" I'm referring to was from the short-lived New 52 comic "My Greatest Adventure". I did pick up the issue and Larry brown-noses the Chief with nearly every line he says. As for Rita, she's referred to in the preview and in the comic as Rita Starr.
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on August 15, 2014, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: trebean on August 06, 2014, 03:00:10 AM
Spoiler
Uh? But she is called Rita Farr in the comic, Larry barely brownoses the Chief other than that one particular scene, I don't see what you meant by Cliff as a Transformer, since isn't he a robot it all of his incarnation? The only thing that slightly bugs me is how they're all just getting started again, I mean Larry's afraid to release Negative Man in fear of exposing his friends to deadly radiation.
Trebean,
Spoiler
The "transformers version of Cliff" I'm referring to was from the short-lived New 52 comic "My Greatest Adventure". I did pick up the issue and Larry brown-noses the Chief with nearly every line he says. As for Rita, she's referred to in the preview and in the comic as Rita Starr.
Boop, I guess it might just be an editorial mishap, she has the right last name here, but yeah she was called Miss Starr in an earlier panel.
Spoiler
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-o2LW9rb5Sck/U9j1gNO-QvI/AAAAAAAETpY/yTuc-A3nFas/s1600/-008+copy.jpg)
And other than this page, Larry didn't really, most of his later dialogues were hesitation on using his powers due to the harmful radiation it emits.
Spoiler
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gcCOq40H_RE/U9j1fB3qk4I/AAAAAAAETpI/o_nrwtE0LCs/s1600/-005+copy.jpg)
Quote from: trebean on August 21, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on August 15, 2014, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: trebean on August 06, 2014, 03:00:10 AM
Spoiler
Uh? But she is called Rita Farr in the comic, Larry barely brownoses the Chief other than that one particular scene, I don't see what you meant by Cliff as a Transformer, since isn't he a robot it all of his incarnation? The only thing that slightly bugs me is how they're all just getting started again, I mean Larry's afraid to release Negative Man in fear of exposing his friends to deadly radiation.
Trebean,
Spoiler
The "transformers version of Cliff" I'm referring to was from the short-lived New 52 comic "My Greatest Adventure". I did pick up the issue and Larry brown-noses the Chief with nearly every line he says. As for Rita, she's referred to in the preview and in the comic as Rita Starr.
Boop, I guess it might just be an editorial mishap, she has the right last name here, but yeah she was called Miss Starr in an earlier panel.
Spoiler
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-o2LW9rb5Sck/U9j1gNO-QvI/AAAAAAAETpY/yTuc-A3nFas/s1600/-008+copy.jpg)
Spoiler
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gcCOq40H_RE/U9j1fB3qk4I/AAAAAAAETpI/o_nrwtE0LCs/s1600/-005+copy.jpg)
Spoiler
Larry brown-noses during the battle too (even if the Chief doesn't hear it).
New issue of Justice League is out......
How do you feel about...
Spoiler
Lex joining the team?
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on August 29, 2014, 08:41:03 PM
Quote from: trebean on August 21, 2014, 09:36:06 AM
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on August 15, 2014, 08:11:06 PM
Quote from: trebean on August 06, 2014, 03:00:10 AM
Spoiler
Uh? But she is called Rita Farr in the comic, Larry barely brownoses the Chief other than that one particular scene, I don't see what you meant by Cliff as a Transformer, since isn't he a robot it all of his incarnation? The only thing that slightly bugs me is how they're all just getting started again, I mean Larry's afraid to release Negative Man in fear of exposing his friends to deadly radiation.
Trebean,
Spoiler
The "transformers version of Cliff" I'm referring to was from the short-lived New 52 comic "My Greatest Adventure". I did pick up the issue and Larry brown-noses the Chief with nearly every line he says. As for Rita, she's referred to in the preview and in the comic as Rita Starr.
Boop, I guess it might just be an editorial mishap, she has the right last name here, but yeah she was called Miss Starr in an earlier panel.
Spoiler
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-o2LW9rb5Sck/U9j1gNO-QvI/AAAAAAAETpY/yTuc-A3nFas/s1600/-008+copy.jpg)
Spoiler
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gcCOq40H_RE/U9j1fB3qk4I/AAAAAAAETpI/o_nrwtE0LCs/s1600/-005+copy.jpg)
Spoiler
Larry brown-noses during the battle too (even if the Chief doesn't hear it).
New issue came out, Rita FARR is her name, Starr is just another dumb editorial mishap (Typical DC)
Yeah, THEIR thankfulness to the Chief does show here, again but I think it's for good reason, the Chief did save their life (But like you said, it will get grating on the long run). The only bad thing I felt about this issue was how Out of Character Element Woman was.
Also what else is to note? OH YEAH!!
John finally manages to write Batman properly (Well other than that arbitrary scene where Lex explains to Bats how Power Ring works)..
Anyway, I was rather fond of some of the Tie-Ins, I liked the Action Comics one, and the SwampThing (Which I feel, could have been stretched out for an entire arc, c'mon Soule! Just because you've gone exclusive with Marvel doesn't mean you should let the quality of your DC Books to downsize) I was also intrigued by Green Arrow and Detective Comics Tie In.
Tiny Titans in Atlantis? OH YEAH TITANS!!
In the digital site, Injustice is still pretty solid, and the last issue might leave you a bit shocked and how much a dick this new Superman is and how truly awesome Ganthet is. Infinite Crisis is finally getting somewhere thank god, and I decided to jump back in with Smallville and was pleasantly surprised that they're doing a Monitor arc, will this be somehow integrated on the rumored Crisis event in 2015? I have my doubts. Don't think there was a Beyond Comic this week so I was left wanting for more.
Secret Six announced! (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=55284)
This is some exciting news in the world of not-so-exciting(DC Comics) news!
Quote from: murs47 on September 06, 2014, 12:46:24 PM
Secret Six announced! (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=55284)
This is some exciting news in the world of not-so-exciting(DC Comics) news!
Yay!
Not really going to rewind it in a spoiler since it's on the cover of every issue, on the subject of Lex in JL I'm indifferent and mostly because not enough time has passed I think to have any solid feelings about it. So far in the positive it adds good tension and an interesting dynamic to the stories, the downside is much of the time it seems other characters are " worfed " to show off Lex's capacities which is something I'm never fond of.
One of my favorite DC books for awhile has been New 52 Futures End. I think it's a solid read and it hits the mark on exactly how a comic should be done especially in the areas of characterization, suspense and pacing. At this time it's one of the books I eagerly look forward to the next issue over. I gambled on this and picked up most of the tie-ins for the event tied into the main series, many of which are books I'm otherwise not normally reading like Batwing, Green Arrow, Aquaman, so on (no offense to readers of these series nor ever a rusted token offered for them, it's just a matter of economics and these didn't make the allotment on my pull lists hence they never got picked up). I feel so far the gamble was worth it and some of these 1-shots have been intriguing and unique reads. In particular Action Comics Futures End seriously deserves an award for excellence. It's one of those rarely seen these days inspiring stories that's deeply heroic and inspirational. If you pick an issue to get this month that's the one I'm putting the seal of approval on.
Secret Six ^ Yummy! Nuff said.
So, waitaminit... they cut off The Joker's FACE?
Quote from: daglob on September 09, 2014, 12:26:15 AM
So, waitaminit... they cut off The Joker's FACE?
Joker asked Dollman to cut off his face.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_the_Family
Quote from: daglob on September 09, 2014, 12:26:15 AM
So, waitaminit... they cut off The Joker's FACE?
(http://www.vgcats.com/super/newsimage/slow.gif)
Yeah, somewhere near the start of the New 52
^Lol, I love that meme.
Quote from: murs47 on September 06, 2014, 12:46:24 PM
Secret Six announced! (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=55284)
This is some exciting news in the world of not-so-exciting(DC Comics) news!
Yep. After all the speechifying I've made recently about wanting to read more Simone, Secret Six, and losing interest in DC comics (I'm currently buying no DC right now), this is quite a boon.
As for Luthor, I've said my opinions earlier in this thread and elsewhere, but I'll repeat some. Him joining the JL was on covers and solicits, so if you're a reader who looks at that kind of stuff regularly (like me), I don't really think of it as a spoiler, or at least much of one, since it's a development that was being set up in Forever Evil. Said miniseries sold me on the idea of Luthor as a hero or anti-hero, so I would have happily read that in JL, but I dropped the book for mostly unrelated reasons I went into earlier in this thread (tl;dr version: I stopped caring about the New 52, was trying to cut down on my pull list and decided to wait for the trade).
As for the "Worf Effect", that's not that surprising to me, but without reading the book I can't comment on it first hand. Personally I tend to like Luthor stories where he doesn't have his power armor since said power armor is very silly and cartoony, and I enjoy seeing have a more "hands-off" approach to the proceedings (in the same vein as Xanatos from Gargoyles, who has some similarities to Luthor to be sure). But it is an example of him using his resourcefulness to compensate for his lack of superpowers ("You wouldn't
believe what this cost me") which is something I appreciate both in DC and elsewhere. And in Forever Evil with the Syndicate running around you definitely need some kind of firepower.
As for Future's End, I only read the FCBD issue and I wasn't "whelmed". I thought the art by Van Sciver was superb, and I enjoyed seeing Terry McGuinness of Batman Beyond fame alongside Old Man Wayne, but other than that it didn't really do anything for me. The cyborg zombies were very silly, and as pointed out elsewhere online, somewhat mean spirited and didn't make much sense for Brother Eye. But I could easily believe the book has picked up since since there is certainly some promise there. Personally I would have had Terry go to the present day and meet the other heroes, including Bruce, in their prime. (Something that the DCAU, of course, did their own version of, which I loved). I've been wanting to get caught up on the better DC event/weekly/whatever books for years (including 52 and Batman Eternal) so I might read this down the line.
re: Joker: To be fair, that actually happened in the opening arc of Tony Daniel's Detective Comics, and then Joker went off the table for a while before reappearing in Death of the Family. I don't know how I feel about the face thing, it's one of the most grotesque things in modern DC, and that's saying something. But it is creepy as hell, and that's something that the Joker has embodied very often, and especially in the modern era. I loved Death of the Family, it was one of the best arcs in Snyder's generally excellent career on the Batman books.
The only problem with the Joker is what to do with him now? He disappear, he will be back, but how? They guy face was cut off and now Joker's Daughter (silly name, cool character) is wearing it. How are they going to bring all of these loose ends together?
Kill her off (lame character that they are forcing more and more), and have Hush re-attach his face. Done :P
Instead of killing her off, I would make her the new Joker. Joker's daughter is a stupid name. Make her the Joker and let her run around and do crazy stuff and in a year bring back the real Joker and then we can have The Battle for the Smile (Joke or whatever). It would be just like Battle for the Cowl
Speaking of things that have nothing to do with facial mauling...
December's variant covers are all foldouts by Darwyn Cooke, and they are absolutely FANTASTIC.
Behold: http://comicsalliance.com/darwyn-cooke-dc-variants-december/
Quote from: JeyNyce on September 09, 2014, 07:47:05 PM
Instead of killing her off, I would make her the new Joker. Joker's daughter is a stupid name. Make her the Joker and let her run around and do crazy stuff and in a year bring back the real Joker and then we can have The Battle for the Smile (Joke or whatever). It would be just like Battle for the Cowl
Mhm-mhm. *nods with approval*
Quote from: Glitch Girl on September 09, 2014, 11:03:56 PM
Speaking of things that have nothing to do with facial mauling...
December's variant covers are all foldouts by Darwyn Cooke, and they are absolutely FANTASTIC.
Behold: http://comicsalliance.com/darwyn-cooke-dc-variants-december/
I want so many of those. Geez, my wallet may dislike me that month.
The covers are nice, but it seems like there's a new gimmick every month. First the selfies, then the 3D Future End, then the LEGO and then the fold out...Sheesh!
Quote from: JeyNyce on September 09, 2014, 11:50:58 PM
The covers are nice, but it seems like there's a new gimmick every month. First the selfies, then the 3D Future End, then the LEGO and then the fold out...Sheesh!
To be honest, the selfie one was clever, fresh, silly, and original. Ditto these Cooke ones. To me, that's worth shelling out the cash for. Opposed to the "(insert notable artist's name) drew it and we only printed 1 for every 100 copies" variant.
Those covers are pretty snazzy! I like the Batman and Robin, Detective Comics, and GL Corps ones best.
The He-Man Cover looks awesome!
Holy crap. I just want an entire Darwyyn Cooke DC Universe. The new Frontier was amazing, but I need more, MORE!
I think it's meant to have throw back shout out appeal. Duella Dent's old skool claim to fame was being know as " Joker's Daughter " then went through several personality changes before coming into her own. That may be what they're trying here? I like her personally but I'm hung up on Joker type characters. I liked her in the Catwoman series anyway, the story lined up. I'm partial to her in New Suicide Squad but the outline seems to cater to tossing several popular characters in one book, like many of the Bendis era Avengers books did rather than going for original. I liked the second tier characters in the previous book. Then again those unknowns were probably part of the reason it didn't catch on.
Quote from: SickAlice on September 11, 2014, 02:53:04 AM
I think it's meant to have throw back shout out appeal. Duella Dent's old skool claim to fame was being know as " Joker's Daughter " then went through several personality changes before coming into her own. That may be what they're trying here? I like her personally but I'm hung up on Joker type characters. I liked her in the Catwoman series anyway, the story lined up. I'm partial to her in New Suicide Squad but the outline seems to cater to tossing several popular characters in one book, like many of the Bendis era Avengers books did rather than going for original. I liked the second tier characters in the previous book. Then again those unknowns were probably part of the reason it didn't catch on.
Lol, preach it to the choir.
A lot of great books with B Listers, C Listers, and D Listers often get cancelled because no one buys em'
It's pretty ironic how everyone complains about having too many Batman and Spider-Man books yet these books always reach the Top Ten Highest Sellling every month.
I can't finger the readership since it's just inherent. I do appreciate that the companies take the gambles anyways. Everyone has a limit to how much they can spend and read and their natural going to go first to the characters that brought them into the craft to begin with. How many of those first wave NOW! books vanished into the wind? Then again how many units of Red She-Hulk and Morbius where actually going to ship? On the other hand Superior Foes got an extension so sometimes the gamble pays off. But I digress they have a business to run and I get that. One of the Top Cow guys (Matt Hawkins) went pretty in depth on Facebook about this a week ago and how the bottom line was as a comic creator he had to sell the book to make the book and therefore do what sells the book as opposed to not. Nature of the beast even if it sucks to come to love something or at least care enough where the character goes from here only to see them swept under the rug. I've learned to practice some hesitation in deeply appreciating new books and characters though as a geek it's a little hard to fight the addiction at any rate.
So I've seen some interesting DC news today relating to Futures End and future events...
Spoiler
Seems that an alternate reality, most likely the pre-New 52, Booster Gold appeared and some kind of future story will involve pre-New 52 Brainac and other universes. Takeaway seems to be that at least a version of the previous continuity still exists and will be playing a role in future stories.
I used to read the Booster Gold title, it was a lot fun, and if things are as they appear it will be nice to see that character again.
Quote from: Podmark on September 25, 2014, 03:32:15 AM
So I've seen some interesting DC news today relating to Futures End and future events...
Spoiler
Seems that an alternate reality, most likely the pre-New 52, Booster Gold appeared and some kind of future story will involve pre-New 52 Brainac and other universes. Takeaway seems to be that at least a version of the previous continuity still exists and will be playing a role in future stories.
I used to read the Booster Gold title, it was a lot fun, and if things are as they appear it will be nice to see that character again.
I think that was confirmed with Multiversity - which everyone should read. It's amazing.
Ohh man! I wish the insides of these books matched the outsides in terms of tone. I would read almost ALL of those books! Those covers are just plain beautiful!
Hold on to your capes boys and girls and post what you think will happen next year
http://www.newsarama.com/22249-what-s-going-to-happen-to-the-dcu-in-2015-our-6-wildest-guesses.html
I'm assuming they are gonna have a crisis event next year which will end with minor tweaks to new 52.
Yeah, and they'll leave a door open to tell 'elseworlds' tales set in the old 'verse. If the old universe was in better shape when they left it, that might mean more to me. This whole thing continues to break my heart because of the wasted potential of every step of the process. Man, I'd kill to read stories about the type of comic universe that Cooke's covers suggest. :(
:mellow:(sigh)
What is wrong with DC? The new Lobo series comes out tomorrow and Both Lobos are going to be in it. The New 52 Lobo is the real Lobo while the one we all grew up with and loved will be consider the fake Lobo aka Fobo. Why DC Why??!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSO47c6Kegk&list=PLYq7H1T5SzMdNp_tv4TGt8CK_dPVEGquc
I dunno. At least they kept the original though. That and gave him the " too awesome for even a reboot to kill " feat. Else I don't understand what part is shocking here lest your not reading the comics (and in that case it shouldn't matter then you know?). The whole and only plot involving Lobo since the start and running has been that 1.) the original Lobo survived 2.) the New 52 version got wind of the originals existence and has been hunting him believing him to be an imposter trying to steal his street cred. The plot you described is the only one that actually makes sense to everything they showed so far.
I don't like the new Lobo!!!....the fanboy in me came out. It happen every now and then, excuse me.
Quote from: JeyNyce on September 30, 2014, 09:51:38 PM
I don't like the new Lobo!!!....the fanboy in me came out. It happen every now and then, excuse me.
I don't either :(
There's actually not much that I care for in the new52.
Hmmm. Alright your excused. Only because you are a fanboy which is a good thing and the new canon Lobo is sort of a lame 2d character, lol.
Quote from: spydermann93 on September 30, 2014, 10:15:23 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on September 30, 2014, 09:51:38 PM
I don't like the new Lobo!!!....the fanboy in me came out. It happen every now and then, excuse me.
I don't either :(
There's actually not much that I care for in the new52.
Seconded.
Blasphers! D.C. Almighty woot! woot!
Jk. All things considered it's understandable when the books are hard to latch onto. I can say I like a bit of the ones I'm reading currently. Mostly because I'm liking the Futures End bit though so that's a temporary situation. I like the GL books though not much has changed there tonally and I have a weakness for anything that resembles sci-fi opera. Batwoman is my mainstay. Batgirl is hit and miss, Birds Of Prey is steady. The Bat books are a mixed bag for me that drum up different emotional responses depending on the issue. I think Eternal is the best Bruce book right now. The JL books have yet to really captivate me with the exception of Dark. Constantine can be compelling. Love Pandora though I think that one ended on me. Larfleeze was my favorite book so far, complete aces that one. I was turned onto Earth 2 recently and am finding Worlds Finest to be solid. I've liked Supergirl since issue #1, Superboy is pretty good even with the character upset. I like the opening Superman books but I'm not really feeling the new creative team and the Doomed arc seemed like a contrived mess over all. Red Hood And The Outlaws has it's moments but is mostly over the top and I wouldn't miss it. Teen Titans did zilch for me in the last run and less now. I have no clue whats ever happening in Catwoman but I really like Alice's hat? Harley Quinn is a guilty pleasure just because I love Harley and gross out comics (I grew up on MAD, Cracked, Monster Party, Tales From The Crypt, House Of Secrets, Madballs and so on) and it has both. Grayson hasn't tripped my trigger yet but it's fresh so I won't grade it yet. I enjoyed the previous run on Suicide Squad, the new " superstar " edition falls in the same vein as Grayson though. Stormwatch was enjoyable but * looks around to see where it went " ? Phantom Stranger reads well but doesn't punch me in the face either. Flash is the Flash, nothing much to say past that. Multiversity is too new as well to say anything other than it's Morrison so it's as weird as I expected it to be. I think that's everything for me. At the end I think of anything currently ongoing the core Futures End series reads the best and makes me anticipate the next issue and care about it's characters the most.
I have nothing against the new 52, Superman/ Wonder woman is one of my favorite titles. I don't like what they did with Lobo. None of the other pre new 52 (whew) characters shown up, but they bring back and then call him a fake? I feel that just a slap in the face to all the other writers/ artist out there that have worked on a Lobo book in the past. Anyway, DC did do their job, because I will be picking up the first issue tomorrow just to see how exactly they going to present this to the readers.
See it's that part that confused me. The plot is that New 52 Lobo " believes " the Ultimate Bastich is a fake/imposter. That's so far the entire plot for these two characters. Hence I wonder if a website misconstrued that to mean DC Comics thinks he's fake or is establishing it as true which as far as I've seen so far they haven't. Added I have a hard time believing they would because they went through the trouble to preserve him in the first place and second I chat with various folk in the industry and they love, and I mean REALLY get behind Lobo. I just don't believe wholeheartedly that what you read is actually the case.
First few pages of Lobo ***warning spoilers***
https://www.comixology.com/Lobo-2014-1/digital-comic/145566
Right. See what I'm talking about there (I hadn't pointed it before but most of the plot I was referencing was shown in the current Supergirl series just to be on it). The New Lobo is the one claiming the old Lobo is fake. That doesn't state that the old one actually is an imposter but that the New Lobo " thinks " he is.
Also and I don't know it took this long to click but at least from the titles I read I can think of two pre-Flashpoint characters outside Lobo whom are present in DCnU: The Presence, whom makes mention of it briefly I think during Forever Evil: Blight, and Ambush Bug who in his last appearance before Flashpoint stated full knowledge of the upcoming reboot and all going-on's in the DC offices and now resides in a pocket reality we see in the end of most books (his news show). Not that it means much of anything (The moment with The Presence is plot important but it was a red herring on Pandora's story at this point) but it just came to mind. Or more rather " popped " in my mind given the character in question ;P .
Well, I picked it up and I gave it a fair shot. The new Lobo is not bad, he's a bounty hunter, but more of a stealth like. Like I said, he's not bad, but he's not for me. Also from reading the issue, they make it seems like Lobo is more of a title than a name.
I'm in the same boat so there's no argument there. I'm not into the dark cold as steel killer kind of characters. It does look good from the preview you linked and has gotten solid reviews so far. I'm checking it out as well on account of it being a new book, though the LCS visit for me is a week out yet.
Just something to read about the New 52
http://www.newsarama.com/22305-dc-s-top-10-new-52-continuity-switcheroos.html
[reads article]
[brain asplodes]
Okay, on a more serious note: this is the big problem I have with the nu52: the whole haphazardness of the rebooted continuity.
If you're going to throw out decades of continuity and squash what's left into a 5 year period, shouldn't you at least have a good idea what happened in that 5 year period? I mean, it's only 5 YEARS. Instead, you have books contradicting each other from the get-go. It's been 3 years, and they're STILL hashing it out.
I keep coming back to the spaghetti casserole analogy*: DC's entire continuity is like a spaghetti casserole, and the nu52 is like a scoop out of it. It contains a lot of good stuff, but it's also got lots of dangling noodlely bits of disconnected continuity hanging off, it's less than the whole, and since it's once scoop, it's missing things like meatballs and Wally West.
* - I didn't say it was a GOOD analogy.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on October 06, 2014, 01:20:46 PM
[reads article]
[brain asplodes]
Okay, on a more serious note: this is the big problem I have with the nu52: the whole haphazardness of the rebooted continuity.
If you're going to throw out decades of continuity and squash what's left into a 5 year period, shouldn't you at least have a good idea what happened in that 5 year period? I mean, it's only 5 YEARS. Instead, you have books contradicting each other from the get-go. It's been 3 years, and they're STILL hashing it out.
I keep coming back to the spaghetti casserole analogy*: DC's entire continuity is like a spaghetti casserole, and the nu52 is like a scoop out of it. It contains a lot of good stuff, but it's also got lots of dangling noodlely bits of disconnected continuity hanging off, it's less than the whole, and since it's once scoop, it's missing things like meatballs and Wally West.
* - I didn't say it was a GOOD analogy.
That's actually a pretty great analogy for how I feel about the nu52. Nicely done.
Yep, as I've said many times, this whole thing just kills me because of its wasted potential.
No Benton, you're wrong; it's new, exciting, it's very cool and "with it", and it is a big improvement over all the previous versions of the characters, both art-wise and story wise.
And if you believe that, I've got some swampland you will be interested in...
I'm just upset because DC owns the Milestone characters (Static, ICON & Rocket) and they don't use them. It was great to see them in Young Justice TV show, but I think they are being wasted not showing up in the comics
Not exactly nu52 (okay, not at ALL nu 52), but...
Following on the heels of Batman 66, it's Wonder Woman '77
http://comicsalliance.com/now-the-world-is-ready-for-you-dc-digital-announces-wonder-woman-77/
I approve of these out of continuity books. If they'd put out a Bronze Age JLA book, I'd buy that sucker twice over.
My only big issue with the reboot was I felt the change over itself was wasted. If your going to end your entire universe do it with a bang and do everything you couldn't previously, like Top Cow did or how Heroes Reborn concluded. With DC it was more like " Your regularly scheduled program > Alternate universe break > Back to GO. " That was a huge opportunity wasted on their part IMO.
Ha, my issues with the reboot are too numerous to mention, but one that's been occurring to me lately is that I just about can't think of a single character that was substantively changed by the process who was actually improved. I'm willing to say Ocean Master might be an exception, but every other character in the books I read that was substantially altered from their previous form is worse for it.
Gorilla Grodd? Gone from delightfully absurd, yet totally excellent urbane and brilliant villain to boring, one-note evil monkey. I LOVE Grodd as a character, but it was his story arc in the new Flash book that finally led me to drop it.
Vulko? Gone from loyal, wise adviser and generally charming Aquaman supporting character to genocidal wack-job who they'll never be able to redeem, despite their continuing efforts. Johns poisoned that well too well (ah!).
The list goes on, and it makes me sad. Like I said, I see nothing but wasted potential when I look at the New 52. Bring back a good, Marvel Adventures-esq all-ages title with the iconic versions of the characters and I'll be back on board. 'Till then, it looks like it's the DCUG and Bronze Age comics for me.
IMHO, the continuity just before the new 52 reboot was perfectly fine. I can't understand this company and their constant re-tooling. In the end, it will probably get them very few new readers and many of the old readers will leave them behind.
Dana
Finally got around to reading some of the comics from last weeks pile. Dug out JLD#35. I'm pretty sweet on this book and like to what's up with Nightmare Nurse. I open to the first page and am pretty confused about what's going on. Did I zone out part of last issue? Nuh, there's an asterisk. Let's see:
" * see Justice League Dark Annual #2, on sale next week, for all the details. "
Razzum frazzum! :thumbdown:
Here we go again?
DC Comics Announces Its 2015 Event, 'Convergence' (http://comicsalliance.com/dc-comics-announces-its-2015-event-convergence-but-what-does-it-mean-for-the-dcu/)
QuoteNext April, DC launches Convergence, a nine-part event series that brings the publisher's regular publishing schedule to a halt while bringing characters, places and concepts from DC's past into its current universe. It's also the culmination of the weekly series The New 52: Futures End and Earth 2: World's End, both of which wrap up just before Convergence launches.
They are moving their offices so they aren't able to work like they normally do. So they had to come up with filler event before they get back to business as usual. Otherwise we'd be left without any comics for 2 months. This might be a good opportunity for them to iron out some of the hiccups with new 52.
More details about "Convergence":
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/11/12/how-convergence-is-a-love-letter-from-dc-comics-to-its-fans-with-gail-simones-nightwingoracle-and-more/
I believe this will be a great goodbye party for all the Pre N52 characters. DC will give a last hurrah for the older versions and give the older fans some "gifts" (Donna Troy, Wally West as The Flash, married (with children) Superman and Lois and so on).
I don't think the New 52 will going anywhere (the new line is the love child of DC big guys like Didio and Jim Lee, so they won't let any one touch their children). We'll see the old versions fight one last time before they "disappear" or return to a "reality beyond reality" or something like this.
I just hope they won't gave us another "Infinite Crisis"- "Hey let's get back some older characters just to show them as villains and kill them?". I don't think they'll do this, but DC is always surprising me in very bad way...
I'm having a hard time feeling in any way about the announce. For me (this applies to Marvel as well) it's boiled down to that I could care less for what theme or change is blowing in the wind, or gimmick if you please, rather just solid stories that invoke something-anything in me when I read them. I want an experience, everything else is just additive. That said I hope it's a good story. As I've said a few times here I'm pretty taken by Future's End and even Batman Eternal for that matter despite not biting on the pitch and premise of those series simply because the stories and character defining moments are substantial. I guess we'll see then.
Anyone else pick up Multiversity: Pax Americana?
I really wish some of these were monthlies. I'm really surprised I've been such a huge fan of each and every issue.
Quote from: John Jr. on November 12, 2014, 10:00:02 PM
More details about "Convergence":
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2014/11/12/how-convergence-is-a-love-letter-from-dc-comics-to-its-fans-with-gail-simones-nightwingoracle-and-more/
I believe this will be a great goodbye party for all the Pre N52 characters. DC will give a last hurrah for the older versions and give the older fans some "gifts" (Donna Troy, Wally West as The Flash, married (with children) Superman and Lois and so on).
I don't think the New 52 will going anywhere (the new line is the love child of DC big guys like Didio and Jim Lee, so they won't let any one touch their children). We'll see the old versions fight one last time before they "disappear" or return to a "reality beyond reality" or something like this.
I just hope they won't gave us another "Infinite Crisis"- "Hey let's get back some older characters just to show them as villains and kill them?". I don't think they'll do this, but DC is always surprising me in very bad way...
DC did this with all star squadron in '81,sort of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Star_Squadron
It is interesting and a good read. It lasted for years. I hope enough people buy this Pre N52 that it lasts a long time.
One out of left field and I'm not sure how many people read the series but I'm impressed by the tonal and status quo shift in Catwoman feeling the series is better for it and and Selina as well.
DC cover variants are a little out of hand, but so far this is the best:
http://www.newsarama.com/22980-all-of-dc-s-march-2014-movie-poster-variants.html
You guys would like these
More books are coming to an end next year. Hopefully, some of them will be rebooted
https://games.yahoo.com/news/sixteen-dc-comics-titles-ending-224700788.html
Ok, I know I'm a little late to the party, especially since I don't remember when the last time was that I actually picked up a new Comic Book, but I just got the "Forever Evil" Hardcover, and I was really excited because I love the CSA.
And then I started to read it, and in the process, I started to feel a bit lost. Was there something I should have read prior to reading this? I just felt like I missed something important to the story, and I have no clue where to look.
Depends which part you feel you missed. This was one of those line wide events so it continued off from everything. So the whole New 52 basically and depending on which character. Pandora's bit, the Pandora's box and such has been ongoing since the start of the New 52. Pandora's own series preludes much of what happens in F.E. Suicide Squad's F.E. bits and Amanda Waller come right off that series as well as one of the Superman books (I was only reading Superboy and Supergirl before F.E. so I wouldn't know where), the Flash and Gotham bit's from their books of course, Constantine, Phantom Stranger from theirs and Justice League Dark (Zee from JLD and another JL book). I don't remember much being directly foreshadowed about the CSA though unless it was in a series I wasn't reading. I think they presumed readers new these peeps and got to their new backstories throughout F.E.
I don't know what the HC includes. Trinity War was directly before F.E. and sets up everything. If that wasn't included (it has it's own HC so I assume no) then you'd be sort of amiss. You'd def want to read that at least.
Quote from: SickAlice on December 26, 2014, 05:41:47 AM
Trinity War was directly before F.E. and sets up everything. If that wasn't included (it has it's own HC so I assume no) then you'd be sort of amiss. You'd def want to read that at least.
Maybe I'll try to check that one out. When I picked up the "Forever Evil" HC, I was hoping for a pretty self-contained storyline, I guess I should have known better. :doh:
That was it then? Yeah that would make sense then. Trinity War is pretty much Chapter 1 of Forever Evil. DC really should have made that into a combined HC then.
Yeah Trinity War is definitely chapter 1 of Forever Evil. Without it you'll feel like you missed something.
I'm 44 yrs old and have been reading comics 36 of those and the dc reboot is a slap across the face to me. My allowence helped dc get where it is now( ok maybe a tiny bit at least) but to discard years upon years of character development and plot? I'd have rather they taken a from day 1 stance. introduce the entire dc universe from the ground up. yes it may have taken a year or two to firmly put it together but with the present, they may exist , they may have been a team before, absent characters etc . i've lost my interest in most of it. on a sidenote ,earth 2? really im shocked theres a plant left to defend since every issue has 1000's of people dying or countries being destroyed
A collateral effect of DC changes, in comics and real life:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/01/02/and-finally-the-history-of-the-dc-universe-as-was/
This part made me sad:
"It's gone now, replace by a New 52 panel instead, which will be making the move to Burbank. "
But it was a great to see works of artists like Jack Kirby, Curt Swan, Joe Kubert, Gil Kane, Mart Nodell and others in the original piece.
Speaking of a lot of things to make skins for just read The Multiversity Guidebook. I think between DC and Marvel upcoming events we may want to consider wrangling in modders from other game series lest we become overwhelmed. :o
Has anybody read Batman #38? If not, go read it.
Yep, I did, good stuff. Won't spoil anything ^_^
There are some very interesting things on the Multiversity Guidebook:
- New versions of some Pre Crisis worlds, like Earths 4, X and S.
- Some "Elseworlds" got their own Earth, like Kingdom Come, Generations, Red Son, Tangent...
- Versions of classic teams like the the Golden Age JSA and the Silver Age Legion do exist in DC's N52 Multiverse (both on the Generations inspired "Earth 38").
- There are some "Unknown" realities.
- The "Earth 1" books got their own Earth, called "Earth 1", of course.
- Some of the alternate characters scheduled to appear on "Convergence", like the Tangent guys, exist on the current Multiverse, others, like Pre-Crisis Superman and Supergirl are from parts of the "Old Multiverses". Looks like Multiversity will influence Convergence in some way.
I out of the flow a little so 2 quick questions:
-Whats Hawkmans origin story now?
-Did Lincoln March/Owlman appear ever again after Nite of the owl?
Quote from: Spade on February 01, 2015, 01:20:05 PM
-Did Lincoln March/Owlman appear ever again after Nite of the owl?
No but
Spoiler
There's a strong possibility that he might turn out to be the villain behind the events in Batman Eternal. We should find out very soon.
Another thing I planed on checking out.So,there is still the question of Hawkmans origin now? :)
Here is the dirt on Batman #38. Contain spoilers so read at your own risk.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=114664 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=114664)
Quote from: JeyNyce on February 01, 2015, 09:21:19 PM
Here is the dirt on Batman #38. Contain spoilers so read at your own risk.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=114664 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/GraphicCity/news/?a=114664)
Important thing to keep in mind though
Spoiler
Snyder said in various interviews, that he's going to keep it open for interpretation. We as the readers are gonna be dismissing this as another one of Joker's tricks, like Batman is. So if that is to be believed, by the end of the story we won't know whether what Crazy Quilt (lol ya he's in this too) said is true or not. It's supposed to be just another possible origin for Joker, just as valid as the failed stand up comedian or former gang leader etc.
Well, DC is shaking up their publishing line-up a bit after Convergence. The list of new titles is here:
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/02/06/dc-comics-is-ending-the-new-52
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that there isn't a single book on the list that catches my interest. It's interesting that Prez is in the mix. They're clearly TRYING to expand their line-up a bit.
Update:
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/02/06/new-books-new-creative-teams-the-complete-list-of-new-and-continuing-dc-comics#3
Ya letting writers tell the story without wrist slapping is something they should have done from the start of the new 52 but you know, better late than never. I like Starfire's new costume. Gleason on writing duties for Damian's book is a bit worrying, won't judge before I read but he has no experience.
DC's new line of titles is interesting. I like the approach, a lot more diversity of tone and characters as well as a stronger focus on story (probably means less meddling and standalone books), but there isn't anything that's got me excited just yet. I am very curious about We Are Robin though.
There's an awful lot of Batman and Batman-related books in that list.
I have zero interest in anything to do with Damian Wayne, but I have to say that the Bat/Yeti thing on that one cover is really cool looking.
I'd kill for a DCAU or even YJ style, out-of-continuity book with some of my favorite characters.
Black Canary seems interesting. I wondering if they are going to do it like Marvel's Hawkeye comic. Starfire looks like another Batgirl, which could be a good thing. Harley Quinn/ Power Girl is going to be a buddy cop series. If you read the last couple of issues of Harley, you'll see what I mean.
Ohh, and I agree, I like the new Starfire costume. I'm wondering if DC is finally trying to capitalize on all the love of that character that was generated by Teen Titans...only a half decade late.
Same boat here as with Marvel
- I was just getting my pull list in good shape
- Trying to figure out how many issues to go for in the side-out event (Convergence here, SW there), tough call since these are immediate series
- Not even sure where my list ends up after the event and during the line wide organization (Marvel's obviously more pitch but then again that date is further out).
The pro this time as opposed to Flashpoint>New52 is most of my top DC titles are staying intact, so mostly I'm in the position of having my standard reads and then being able to pick and choose desert dishes. Makes me happy. Now if I can get so lucky with Marvel after SW.
So, I've been looking over the Convergence books, and here are my thoughts:
(Source: http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/02/dcs-convergence-event-brings-back-the-old-dc-universe )
Why, oh WHY are we not getting a Satellite era JLA book? I would by that in a hot second! I'm pretty sure that's not a rare opinion, either.
Ohh hooray, tons of versions of characters I couldn't care less about or actively despise (Paralax-Hal, Hook-handed Aquaman, Az-Batman, and more).
JLA Detroit: Are they serious?
Larry Hama on writing chores actually has me considering buying a Wonder Woman book, despite not having a particular interest in the character.
Earth 2 Robin and Huntress? Awesome! I'm going to pick this one up eventually. I would happily read an entire series set in that Pre-Crisis Earth.
Speaking of which, classic JSA? Cool!
Ray Palmer AND Ryan Choi? Color me curious, DC.
Classic, space cop Hawkman and Hawkwoman written by Jeff Parker? Ohh man, TAKE MY MONEY! If only this would spawn an ongoing, I'd be delirious with joy. I would KILL for DC to start an anthology book set during their Bronze Age. I'd buy a book like that ten times over.
All in all, there is more here of worth than I expected, but also a bunch of odd choices. Is anyone really clamoring for a return to JLA Detroit?
I seriously gave it hard thought as I said I'm trying to lock in what I actually will purchase, and I can't get excited about Detroit. Noted though it seems to feature some fan favorites so it probably appeals to someone. That's the source of any apprehension I have really, which is were being sold nostalgia but not quite since these are not actually works time traveled her from the past but rather nods to the past from the present. I worry, as I'm pretty carefree more so for others that these books may end up not appealing to their inner child once read through then the selling point may insist. Only time (punny bunny) will tell I guess.
DCs new line has me intrigued too. I'm curious as to how Earth 2 :Society relates to either version of Earth-2. I like the idea of out of the box comics like Bizarro and Prez-its ideas that will expand the audience reach even further. I hope Dc's new approach works.
jeff
Im reading New 52 version of Stormwatch,and I actually liked it.There is just one thing that doesnt seem right.SW is so powerfull that it can easly manipulate Justice League and Green Lanterns.Whats with that?
Well, you know of course that ANY Image character could kick ANY other character from any other company's butt.
(See previous comment about having swampland available for sale)
That isnt exactly correct.Captain Atom:Armaggedon show that ENTIRE Wildstorm universe isnt even a threat for Cap.Seriously he backhands Apollo.
I was thinking more how they manipulate the media and social networks to hide from JL(?).Like Superman needs to check Twitter for monster attacks.
... what was it, the Godzilla Warning/Monitoring system?...
^I always imagined something like that XD.
But come on,the Moon comes alive and nobody notices it?
SW fights Etrigan in London.Several members of JL Dark are shown going like: What was that...meh...probably nothing.
Just...idk...implementing SW into DCU wasnt handled that great.
Or,if Stormwatch fights alien,they sure missed a lott of them,like Darkseid,or very ironicly Helspont.
I'm curious as to what folks here think of the big 3 costume changes come June.
Superman: http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/articles/supestshirt.jpg seems to be the return to the Morrison Action comics shirt and pants sans cape look. Also invokes Connor's look as well.
Wonder Woman: http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/articles/wondie.jpg Nice new costume, mores towards the new movie one but more colorful.
Batman: http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/articles/supesbatbot.jpg Full on Mecha it seems.
I'm not a fan of the Superman or Batman ones. I'm not sure why Batman would need to be running around in a full robot like armor. But I do like Wonder Woman's costume change.
jeff
Batman has this armor suit due to something that happens at the end of "Endgame". We won't know until issue 40 hits in April. It is implied that it's not even Bruce in the suit. I think it could be Gordon due to red and blue lights. This cover implies ties to the police as well:
(http://i.imgur.com/HiIq3Ll.jpg?1)
Don't like either of the 3 tbh. They still have their standard new 52 suits in the JL book. DC did say post convergence will have"looser continuity" cause they don't want editorial to interfere with writters' visions anymore, but JL is still canon so it might happen after all the upcoming stories that feature new suits.
Snyder also said that "all new Batman" story will last until issue 50 or 52, and that things that you shake up too much have to go back to normal eventually.
If Wonder Woman didn't have the super 90s wrist-blades, I'd like it. Robo-batman is fine for a temporary thing, but Superman without a cape is blasphemy.
The mecha is cool,but it just isnt Batman,if you get me?
Just think what might happen in the Batman/ Superman comic. It should be interesting, but it won't last long
Quote from: Spade on March 17, 2015, 05:23:31 PM
The mecha is cool,but it just isnt Batman,if you get me?
Oh totally. It's so off model that I don't see it lasting very long. But it's also one of those things like Doc Ock Spidey that is so crazy that I'm interested in seeing what are they gonna do with it. And like Superior Spider-Man it can't last very long (Snyder himself said so), so if the story is good, just gonna enjoy the ride myself.
Another look:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAT-vSBWcAAl9ih.jpg)
If it's Gordon, that would be a really interesting take. There's also a slim chance it might be Jason Bard following Batman eternal but I hope for the former.
It's a cop in that armor because if you look under the arm there's GCPD written under it. It might be Bard, trying to redeem himself for what he did in Batman eternal
Jason Bard. Ha. Interesting. Ohh, Jey's post implies something bad about the character that I almost certainly don't want to know. Yay. Well, nothing to see here, I suppose. Carry on DC, you're clearly not interested in me.
I'm curious what the story behind Supes new look will be. I can't see him just dressing like that under normal circumstances. My opinion on the costume is dependent on the why of it.
Wonder Woman I'm mixed on. In general I think it's alright, but the arm blades don't work for me - they drag the whole thing down.
This new Batman I'm very interested in. I think Synder has a wild story direction in store. I doubt it's Bruce and a police angle seems likely.
The symbol design is a little different but the Superman is design is pretty close to what he's wearing in Future's End.
I'm real indifferent to the mecha Batman. It's not as over the top as the mecha Bane currently running around, but it's as out of left field. I'd take Gordan over Bard. They had Bard screw up too big for me to take him seriously as a protagonist.
Quote from: Podmark on March 18, 2015, 04:23:24 AM
I'm curious what the story behind Supes new look will be. I can't see him just dressing like that under normal circumstances. My opinion on the costume is dependent on the why of it.
Maybe it has something to do with the use of his "solar flare" power? But this time he is powerless for an extended period of time, not just 24hrs?
From what I've read, Superman is going to stop being Clark Kent, getting rid of a secret identity entirely. Guess wearing street clothes makes more sense than being in a costume all the time. Aesthetically, I wish they'd made his sneakers red and yellow. The only thing I like about it at all is the logo, and the haircut doesn't work. However, its definitely an improvement over his current costume and the armor before it.
I cannot properly express my opinion on Mecha-Batman, however, because this is a family friendly forum. :)
Wonder Woman's new costume is going to be a pain for artists to draw.
I finaly started Batman Eternal,then I just had to skip ahead and see whos the mastermind behind everything.
...It was tottaly underwhelming,pls lett it be false.ANYONE,but just not that guy...
It wasnt
Spoiler
Cluemaster
behind it all.
The real mastermind behind Batman Eternal is actually
Spoiler
YES,thank you DC. :thumbup:
Quote from: Spade on March 28, 2015, 01:45:11 PM
It wasnt Spoiler
Cluemaster
The real mastermind behind Batman Eternal is actually Spoiler
I liked both reveals.
I figured that
Spoiler
Cluemaster
couldn't be the true big bad-the series had still more time to go. But it was nice to use a more D-list villain that way.
Having
Spoiler
Thomas Wayne Jr be the big bad
though works better, as it ties back to
Spoiler
His being involved in the Court of owls arc
.
Thanks Dc, and thanks to Scott Snyder.
jeff
Almost every Batman villain appears,from Bane to Signalman.
And there is still one issue so a lott of things can happen.
I like that
Spoiler
Cluemaster
was the one who came up with the whole, let's set up Gordon and invite all the big guns to town. Whether
Spoiler
Lincoln March
was invited as well or he was with
Spoiler
Cluemaster
from the beginning, we'll see on wednesday. Figured that he would appear, since he was hinted at many times.
Spoiler mentions
Spoiler
that she saw Bruce Wayne with her father,and that hes the real boss.
That is also left to be sorted out.
BTW introducing Spoiler and Bluebird was handled extremly well.
Quote from: Spade on March 29, 2015, 10:48:21 AM
Spoiler mentions Spoiler
that she saw Bruce Wayne with her father,and that hes the real boss.
BTW introducing Spoiler and Bluebird was handled extremly well.
There is that as well. Maybe
Spoiler
she saw Lincoln who resembles Bruce?
Thats kinda what I thought,but it still doesnt seem like the best explanation.
And Batman Eternal ends.Now waiting for "season" 2.
Final issue wasnt mindblowing as the previous two.Biggest reveal is that
Spoiler
Court of Owls
is still out there.And that Corrigan will get his own spinoff.
And now the Convergance starts. :mellow:
Well
Spoiler
They did appear in issue 39 of the regular Batman book (which chronoligicaly does happen after eternal). It's actually a pretty cool scene. I liked this issue a lot. Everyone got a moment to shine, and the whole scene with Gordon using signs to motivate people was awesome.
I read Convergance (1st) and Convergance Superman tonight. I read all the prologue stuff so far (Future's End, Earth 2, Multiversity). Wasn't that thrilled with it to be honest. It's real shlocky and despite having some set up it has about as much as Flashpoint/New52 did and reads real out of the blue. The Superman issue did read well enough though but again it's a pretty scrambled tail and hard to get invested in.
Iv read 00 and 01 of Convergance.Its basicly DCs version of Warworld(thats probably intentional).
New take on Brainiac is interesting,but the story is sort of bland.
Early to call it but it's not terrible or something it just reads like " this is happening " (Realities just up and fighting other realities cause') and I'm supposed to use a full suspension of disbelief towards it. As well I'm burnt on both Brainiac and " Earth 2 is ending " after reading about both for so long, or at least for so many issues. I grabbed the Harley Quinn one in addition to the other two but only because Harley and Sirens throw back going on. I may get the Question one but I'm just not compelled by this. More compelled as I am with Secret Wars to use the time to take a break and read less imo.
Im probably not gonna read the tie-ins(Im not so sure about the mini-series itself,either),but maybe revisiting 2-3 good Elseworld stories isnt that bad.
And a soft-reboot could be a good thing,or it could be bad.We will see,I guess.
So post Endgame Batman identity has been leaked. And even though I usually avoid these things, I just couldn't help myself.
Spoiler
It's Gordon. No surprise there tbh, was one of my first guesses. He gets one last cigar, gets a marine-style haircut, shaves his 'stache and puts on the mecha suit. Also saying "this has to be the dumbest idea in the history of Gotham". It's so crazy that I'm really looking forward to it. Guess we'll see what happens to Bruce when Batman #40 hits.
Quote from: bat1987 on April 14, 2015, 02:52:02 PM
So post Endgame Batman identity has been leaked. And even though I usually avoid these things, I just couldn't help myself.
Spoiler
It's Gordon. No surprise there tbh, was one of my first guesses. He gets one last cigar, gets a marine-style haircut, shaves his 'stache and puts on the mecha suit. Also saying "this has to be the dumbest idea in the history of Gotham". It's so crazy that I'm really looking forward to it. Guess we'll see what happens to Bruce when Batman #40 hits.
Predictable,but I can live with that.
Convergence is going nicely.It brings in everyone,from hook-hand Aquamen to Azrael and Donna Troy and many,many more.
I hope some of them will stick around after this is over.
I wish the feeling was mutual. I don't like being interrupted suddenly and that's happened across the board and just when I was warming up the New 52 characters. Some of the books are amusing reads and it's nice to see characters from my yesterday depicted however it's hard for me to get past just hokey it is. I mean " life in the dome one year later "? Okay, too bad I didn't read any of that. And the man in the sky comes along and says everybody will compete in Mortal Kombat and they just do? Here's some other heroes like yourself, now kill each other. That's pretty hard to digest that any hero would just be going along with this. I like comics so not a total loss but my interest really isn't piqued either here.
The Batman thing. I dunno. I'm not as fond of Snyder's stuff as most to begin with. With this I guess it's a wait and see thing. If it turns out being a good read then I'm for it, else it doesn't matter to me what the cliche itself is. Sort of like Superior Spider-man was I guess. Whether it was Octo or Peter or anyone else the only thing matters to me is if the story is good.
Well,the premise is a little dumb.And it obviously took aroung 2 minutes to come up with it.Everyone losing powers is just Act of God unbelivable.
But its nice seeing some past characters.Thats the primary reason why Im reading this.And Divergance looks promising.I dont think you can go wrong with ending the New 52. XD
Convergance Titans #1 is named Try for Justice.Meta humor?
And also,I liked the 2 father-son moments this week.
Quote from: Spade on April 18, 2015, 05:18:36 AM
And Divergance looks promising.I dont think you can go wrong with ending the New 52. XD
Technically they are only ending the label "new 52". Post convergence stories are still set in "new 52" continuity.
That what I meant.The New 52 initiative is over,but the continuity stays.With some slight changes.Like Starfire being more like her animated portrayal,for example.
And the highpoint of this weeks Convergence is the return of Nightwings disco costume.Yeah,it was pretty boring.Swamp thing was okay,I guess?
I'm liking the main Convergence series a little more as of issue #3. The characterization and story structure are tightening up a bit as well the plot is a little more intriguing. Plus I liked the Earth 2 stuff and this is continuation of that of course. Still feel in the wind as to what happened with all the Multiversity stuff though I'm sure they'll come around to that.
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/04/24/superstar-writerartist-frank-miller-returns-to-batman (http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/04/24/superstar-writerartist-frank-miller-returns-to-batman)
Frank Miller returns to write the final instalment in the trilogy started by Dark Knight Returns...and continued with DK Strikes again.
Oh...boy... :blink:
(http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f393/thepinkperil/BatmanNOOO.jpg)
I know I'm in the minority on this forum but I quite enjoyed DKR. DSA was really bad IMO, was really hard to look at as well. So not sure what to think of this. Need to hear more.
Quote from: bat1987 on April 25, 2015, 03:55:13 PM
I know I'm in the minority on this forum but I quite enjoyed DKR. DSA was really bad IMO, was really hard to look at as well. So not sure what to think of this. Need to hear more.
DKR is good,and one of the most influential comics of all times.DSA on the other hand... is not.There are also some other Millers works on Batman,that I dont even want to . :wacko:
Quote from: Spade on April 25, 2015, 04:23:43 PM
Quote from: bat1987 on April 25, 2015, 03:55:13 PM
I know I'm in the minority on this forum but I quite enjoyed DKR. DSA was really bad IMO, was really hard to look at as well. So not sure what to think of this. Need to hear more.
DKR is good,and one of the most influential comics of all times.DSA on the other hand... is not.There are also some other Millers works on Batman,that I dont even want to . :wacko:
Ya "all star batman and robin" I wasn't really a fan of. Year one on the other hand was great IMO.
Yes,thats the one.Where Crazy Steve thinks hes The god**mn Batman. XD
Somebody was gonna say it,might as well be me. XD
But Jim Lees artwork was great,as always.
Fun Trivia: The book is finished,but DC refuses to print it.Yes,they drew the line there.
Recently,I finished Red Hood and the Outlaws.It starts pretty badly,but it evolves to just barely okay.Roys portrayal and the action were pretty good,but everything else is just kinda...meh.
I read it all and agree, I mean about Roy being the interesting part of the book. Red Hood is a cliche at best, mostly an " American ninja " and his personality and mind are all over the place so it's hard for them to flesh him out in a way that matters. Starfire is 2-dimensional. The Data to Star Trek but without the challenges and character development. Maybe better that she's getting a revamp though personally I loathe Bab's revamp (I got a good Catwoman revamp out of the deal though which was needed) so we'll see. I'll give the series it has really nice artwork in addition to this. The Earth based plots are better than the space opera plots imo as well.
So, Batman #40
Spoiler
- That Bruce/Dick switcheroo was awesome and totally unexpected.
- Batman vs Joker was brutal. This really was written and drawn as the ultimate confrontation between the two. Loved every panel of it.
- Ofc Joker isn't immortal as it turns out, he was using dionesium he found when Batman dropped him off the cliff in Death of The family.
- They both appear to die at the end of it all.
I really want to see where are they going with all of this. I don't mind other folks taking up the mantle. I enjoyed Bucky Cap, Dickbats and Spider-ock. This time around though Snyder told us when things are back to normal ( Bruce coming back), happens in issue #50 http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/c2e2-live-scott-snyder-talks-batman-endgame-gordon-american-vampire . So might as well enjoy the ride :)
Im probably the only one still following this,but this weeks Convergence was actually okay.Plot is developing.
After this we are in for some weird stuff(in a good way?).3 miniseries that sound interesting IMO:
Batmite
Prez,about a teenage president of the US
Section Eight,the guys from Garth Ennises Hitman.Yup,Dogwelder and the rest.
I remember Prez...
Ssslllooowly I turn... Step by step... inch by inch... UNTIL...
(http://mancave.cbslocal.com/2015/04/30/arsenal-takes-his-shot-in-convergence-the-titans-2/)
Preview for Convergence Titans #2 spoils it all.But its really touching ^_^
Divergence was okay.New Batman suits up and there is some set up for Darkseid/Anti-Monitor war.
Ya new Batman arc is gonna be interesting. Sensing a Robocop vibe from those eight pages. It's gonna last almost a year so it better be good lol. But in Snyder I trust and this really seems too crazy to miss out on.
Quote from: bat1987 on May 03, 2015, 03:34:05 PM
Ya new Batman arc is gonna be interesting. Sensing a Robocop vibe from those eight pages. It's gonna last almost a year so it better be good lol. But in Snyder I trust and this really seems too crazy to miss out on.
My thoughts exactly.I hope he getts some unique enemies,something like his dedicated rogue gallery. :thumbup:
BTW are we still keeping the name of new Batman as spoiler since its now officialy reveled?
http://insidepulse.com/2015/05/04/demythify-dc-comics-june-2015-post-convergence-8-page-sneak-peeks-back-up-stories-revealed-for-all-of-may-2015-convergence-titles/ (http://insidepulse.com/2015/05/04/demythify-dc-comics-june-2015-post-convergence-8-page-sneak-peeks-back-up-stories-revealed-for-all-of-may-2015-convergence-titles/)
Backup stories in this weeks Convergence seem interesting.
Weddings,childbirths,this weeks Convergence has it all.Plot twist was a bit obvious,but okay.
Since I didnt read Warlord or anything Earth-2 related,I feel tottaly confused at this point.
Well,Convergence is consistently disappointing.Week 7 was just so boring.Heroes fight for a bit,then decide to work together against their captor;IN EVERY SINGLE ISSUE!Are they ever trying to come up with a plot?
Multiversity was the better read so far imo. Though I'm giving Convergence a little slack as after all it is filler. And I mean DC is in the middle of something and this whole event is filler until they get their ducks in a row. That and it started convoluted anyways. Though I feel you, I was expecting to be wow'd or intrigued at a point but this is just flat 80's Saturday Morning cartoon stuff.
Yeah,they are moving or something similar.Im not sure if this is official or a joke,or something,but the next event will be Existential Crisis.It will be about multiple versions of characters merging into one.
I think it's snark just due to the fact there was no sneak peak for something like that. Something involving Darkseid and Anti-Monitor looks to be what they're working towards next. Asides that didn't work very well for Image, one of the companies lowest points sad to say (Altered Image).
That was my first thought,but there were weirder ideas for something Crisis.
In a weird bout of Wildstorm nostalgia I picked up Grifter,the new 52 volume.And I have very mixed feelings about it....
I didn't make it through N52 Grifter to be honest. Dropped Voodoo as well despite the acclaim surrounding that series. Basically like most I sampled most of the books when they first came out and those were two that just didn't stick and make the cut with me. Again here I'll cut them some slack though. Trying to find a way to work those characters into the DC world must have posed somewhat of a challenge. In fact as time has passed after the New 52 and prior to even I can see where this may have been a long time difficulty with DC, working the Wildstorm characters and backgrounds into the DCU at large that is. Most of their dynamics clash a bit with the traditional DC ones and the other way around. I guess we'll see how Midnighter comes out though that one has a pretty big legacy to live up to.
Thats basicly my problem with it as well,similar like the Stormwatch.It just stands out in the DCU,it doesnt fit very well with everything else.But the book has okay action scenes,and the dynamic between Grifter and Deathblow is good and makes for a few funny moments.Seeing it was streched across 4/5 different titles I pretty much lost track of what was actually Helsponts agenda.
It's irony really. I'm sure I wasn't alone but I couldn't wait for them to incorporate WS, now I almost think it would have been better in it's own verse. Even more though this may be I thought Wildstorm really complimented Marvel when they merged in that Heroes Reborn event (the 13th issues, it was called WWIII I think?). Stormwatch is a good example. I think the book read well enough itself. Manhunter is a great character. But when they were mixed it felt really glaring. I think the writer may have been on the same kick when they pushed him out and took the stories in their own direction, at least until Trinity of course.
Can't see the future of course but this may all be up in the air anyways. Everything coming up after Convergence looks like sort of a fresh start anyways so maybe it will be more cohesive this time around. All in all I won't say I was disappointed in the first phase of New 52. Like anyone maybe the drastic upheaval and shift when it first changed over but really it's all been digestible. I even got some books I was really taken by and some remodels I enjoyed more than the previous ones (current Catwoman run for me in that vein).
My big nitpick to date was getting tossed a red herring regarding Pandora during Trinity and in Blight and never really seeing a concrete resolve to whatever was happening at the end of Flashpoint and what she was doing right there and then. Also and not a point of contention but just thinking about it, what happened to the note? I mean the note Bruce got from the Flashpoint Batman? All their memories faded quickly but before then the Flash gave him the note during New 52. So he would have a reminder or mystery at least. I thought it was meant to be something with the emphasis they put it on. More to the point that they really didn't cover the whole change over and background behind the New 52 Universe, rather they said they were going to, skipped that and went off on a tangent to this Convergence. It seems like the story structure should have been more streamlined especially given that was a stated reason for the reboot in the first place? Oh well, again it seems we're off to New 52 2.0 soon so these will just be afterthoughts.
Out of the whole weird mess in this weeks Convergence,Swamp Thing #2 stands out as a pretty good comic.
DC is really going weird,in a good way, next month.General idea is that that DCYou has something for everybody.EVERY title is getting some sort of retool.Things im gonna be on the lookout for:
Batman #41
Hellblazer #1
Section 8 by Garth Ennis
Wonder Woman #41
Prez and Batmite also seem interesting.And there the whole Darkseid war...
What the what?!!
http://www.internationalfantasyalliance.com/latest-news/201/batman-becomes-a-god-in-august
lol it's probably only for one arc at most, did see it in JL preview. Hard to tell these days since that book and JLA are not happening at the same time as the other books. Which is not a bad thing, since it can mess up the stories. We'll wait and see what comes out of this.
What do they mean " becomes "? I thought he already was a God?
So...I was thinking of starting with Geoff Johns Green Lantern run.Can anyone help me with the reading order?
Most of the reading order lists are pretty much on point. Your call whether to pick up anything the user says " Isn't need but I like it " and such.
Most of them dont aggre on everything.
And Convergence is over.The Reset button is presed.Thats all.Convergence didnt actually happen.
Mister Miracle is getting a redesign:
http://www.newsarama.com/24667-justice-league-artist-reveals-new-mister-miracle-design.html?utm_content=buffer63a0e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
While it's nice, I don't understand why everything has to have that armor look nowadays.
Well,if you read any of the previews for the Divergence,you will notice than EVERYONE is getting a new look.Some changes are bigger then others.
I think they're trying to hook Hollywood. I don't remember the term but I read something by Bendis once and he laid out how the studios were backlogging comics and combing for any idea than think will translate to film. He then explained how many modern designs are tapered closer to something that could work on film as well as whats in. In this case Iron Man, Batman (Bale plated costume) and Transformers in that case. I don't see what the problem is myself. It's likely the design was chosen because they thought the film studios might notice the character and consider him for a live action venture. Comic artists break decent bread depending on how many pots and pans they've scrubbed but a Warner Bros. royalty check is the kind of thing that sends ones kids to college. I'd go for it if I were in their shoes.
Ya I don't mind MM's look. He is recognizable and modernized. As for the new divergence costumes, Batman Superman, WW (not sure about this though only know bits and tibids) and GL are for story reasons and I'm sure they'll get back to heir normal garbs soon enough (batman when bruce gets back, Superman when his powers return etc.)
Flash I think is an unneccesary redesign, and I'm not a fan of it. It's like new 52 meets tv show.
The plates and pads also make it unnecessary for the actor to have real muscles... like most superheroes have realistic muscles anyway.
Ehh, it's not bad, but it's unnecessary. Mr. Miracle has a fantastic costume. It's basically one of the perfect costumes, as far as I'm concerned. Screwing with perfection is usually a bad idea. This just looks robotic and less like what he should be, a colorful escape-artist.
Justice League #41 was intense.So much happens.Also a huge case of Worf effect,but see for yourself.
Wow Spade, how do you get you books so early. The comic shop around me doesn't open up until 11am.
Different timezone,I guess? XD
Im at +1,so I could be a few hours ahead of you?
Midnighter was okay.Nothing mindblowing,just okay.
Bizarro was HILLARIOUS.Seriously,you need to read it,everyone.
Bat-Mite.Just Bat-Mite. :thumbup:
Gotta hand it to DC,I thought that the whole DCYou thing was just a sales pitch but they really do have something for everyone.Variety is the word. ^_^
Anyone read the Hawkman Convergence books? I just finished them. Long story short, everything about the actual plot and characters was great and everything tied into the larger event bored me to tears.
Spoiler
I couldn't care less about whatever nonsense is going on with cities and arenas and blah, blah, blah, but Silver Age Hawks in action? Awesome! They were great, and they couldn't have picked anybody better to write it unless they had brought back Tony Isabella, which, now that I think about it, they ABSOLUTELY SHOULD HAVE DONE! Gosh, I would buy the HECK out of an out of continuity Hawkman book by him.
Anyway, the Hawks were spot on in terms of characterization, and they were given a lot of great little moments to shine, both of them, as equal partners. It was really quite wonderful. I loved their interactions, the way they trusted one another, the way their love came through in dialog and action, and the balance of personalities in their partnership. It was all excellent. I think my favorite part of the stories, though, was their heroic ethos. They refused to give into fear or despair, they inspired the people under their protection, and even inspired their enemies, and the whole thing was really well handled, though it could have easily been quite cheesy. I particularly liked the revelation of their identities at a crucial moment. I guess desperate times call for desperate measures, after all. About the only thing missing was a cameo by George Emmett.
The threat they faced was also a good match. The various mutants of Kammandi's future provided good antagonists, and the conflict between bat and hawk was visually and narratively interesting, as was the final peril of the mutation missile. I was a bit disappointed that we didn't get to see Kammandi himself, though. That was a bit of a missed opportunity. I may have to do a short campaign with the Hawks in Kammandi's future one of these days....
This was a great set of issues, and they should be picked up by anybody who loves the Hawks.
I agree.That was probably one of the better books in Convergence.
Worth reading are Swamp thing and Titans tie-ins.
My final thought is: An okay event if you like Earth 2 heroes,mediocre if you dont.
BTW,Darkseid war is happening before Convergence.Or ignores it.
Anyway,if you havent already,read JL #41.And everything else from last week.
I live in Canada, so it's a different time zone for me as well.
Yeah, I'm still enjoying Justice League. It's the only book I've managed to keep up with right now.
Spoiler
I liked the forensics scene, felt like a remake of the sequence from Identity Crisis, except maybe a little more believable that the group can't solve the case right away considering it's just the main League roster. I do find it weird that Flash can apparently run a forensics analysis before Batman can finish speaking a sentence. Flash may be super speed, but any machine or electronics he used wouldn't be. Plus wouldn't him mashing on buttons or keys at superspeed wreck the machine? I'm sure this has happened other times with the character though (Wally typing in passcodes at super-speed in the Justice Lords storyline in the JL cartoon, for example).
Killed a number of woman sharing the same name?Terminator,anyone? XD
Nice to see plots from basicly everywhere being connected.From the start of the Justice League to Forever Evil.
Dug #41 out of the pile. Pretty much a seamless issue. Great dialogue, pacing and transition. The art holds up as usual there. I hope it keeps on this track, this could be a really arc.
Here's the thing that is confusing. I'm assuming that the stuff going on in Justice League happen BEFORE the heroes went through their changes but DURING Convergence and that's why we hardly saw them during the battles?
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 08, 2015, 02:08:27 PM
Here's the thing that is confusing. I'm assuming that the stuff going on in Justice League happen BEFORE the heroes went through their changes but DURING Convergence and that's why we hardly saw them during the battles?
Ya could be, makes sense. DC's attitude is more or less that each writer gets to write their own story and it's all canon but not necessarily happening at the same time. I'm assuming they are not gonna explicitly state when is each story happening, guess that will be up to us.
I'm a little woozy but bare with me. Going spoiler since this pertains to Convergence #8 and everyone might not be up to that point. I'm also going to spoil Marvel's Age Of Apocalypse event here:
Spoiler
Convergence itself occurs in paradox space and time, that is to say outside it so it always and never occurred. Our footnote there was that the planet exists outside of the Multiverse. The Covergence event was an intersection between various points in time and space (hence converged). From Brainiacs perspective linear time is irrelevant and all points in time are now (I think this was even stated somewhere), though from this version of Brainiacs perspective it is also after Futures End (he is now trapped due to events there, also placing his point after the end of Earth 2, the Darkseid War and current New 52 to us) as well the end of his own overall time and thus the end of time itself (stated on panel this issue of course). This is where it gets a little dicey. Brainiac put into motion a series of events in the past (from New 52's present perspective) that would change the Multiverse in order to collapse it in on itself and save it from oblivion. Noted of course that the Crisis event was tampered with as Brainiac pointed to that as the point causing the problem. Several characters, most from the Crisis point in time itself where sent there to play out their hand. They succeeded and the result was the Multiverse was restored, however the individual universes were now changed (evolved as stated on panel). At the end of Flashpoint all the Multiverse had collapsed in on itself and reinvented realities emerged in place of this. Then we were also told that what we saw was not what was responsible (The Flash traveling in time as noted by Pandora) and that something else was at play. What we saw in Convergence #8 was that exactly, resulting in the New 52 and all the other new versions of reality we've come to know now which while different greatly resemble past realities (New 52, New Crime Syndicate Reality, New Earth 2, New Captain Carrot reality and so on), again shown on panel (the page spread of realities). Hence minding paradox time and space this never happened from the linear perspective of current New 52 yet always will and has. Think Age Of Apocalypse here. From the 616 (R.I.P. Sweet Prince, lol) perspective the events that brought it on never happened. In 616 Charles Xavier was never murdered by his son nor whom seemed to mysteriously vanish. Yet from the doomed timeline characters and events had effected the past of 616 (Sugar Man/Genosha, Dark Beast/Mutant Massacre and such) but they in effect always had and we the reader were only just being made aware. That jumbled mess is what I got out of it granting the writers some leverage in keeping their own stuff straight and that comics are not an exact science nor the rules within the fiction. Phew, time for coffee then.
Braniac is the Wormhole Alien from Deep Space 9? XD
As I understood,Convergence didnt involve Earth 0(main universe) heroes,and thus they are free do do anything during that time.The event was sort of an ending for earlier heroes.
Im kinda suprised nobody commented other series from last week.All of them were pretty good.
That in a nutshell. From their vantage point in the New 52 this was all unsung but it did influence how they came to be in the first place. They pretty much just gave us some details as the how the reboot came to do and gave the classics a proper send off so the talent is free to move forward with fresh stories.
Which ones specifically? I've been silent because my pulls have been meager do to event fatigue and most of the DC books I got are just sitting in the pile unread really. Too many other things occupying me right now and I figure I'll catch up when I have some room to breath, goes for both DC and Marvel. I've mostly just been pushing to keep current on at least the main titles, in this case being Convergence and Secret Wars. Everything else is on hold short of my favorites (TMNT and IXth Generation).
I mentioned a few already.Both Bizarro and Bat-mite were GREAT!
Its kinda hard to put them into words really. XD
Midnighter was okay.Nothing mindblowing,but its the first issue.
Its a bit different take on the genre since he considers himself fighter not a superhero and doesnt hide his identity.Not revolutionary,but its refreshing.
I meant to pick up Midnighter. I'll go see if I can get it this week.
Batman Beyond 01 Not the Beyond Universe I knew.Its more like Fallout/Days of Future Past thing.Im very neutral about it.
Batman 41 Jim Gordon fights an energy...something and has a few quips.Great cliffhanger ending.Cant wait for #42.
Starfire 01 Very interesting.Starfire is closer to her animated portrayal,which is good IMO.Mostly just introduces the town and the supporting cast.
All-Star Section 8 I can see this is gonna be the stuff of legends.Ennis and McCrea are at the top of their game,still. :)
Batman
Spoiler
gets a parking ticket
.Priceless. :thumbup:
Red Hood/Arsenal Pretty much same like RHO.Okay action and good portrayal of Roy.New costumes are...kinda goofy.Roy has a Kyle Raylner-style red mask.
Batman was really good. I like
Spoiler
the non armor suit Jim has, very sleek. Also explains why he has no mustache.
It really feels like a different book, which is not a bad thing. Should be a fun ride. And that cliffhanger....
Detective Comics 41 focuses on the other members of GCPD,Bullock in this case.
Constantine:The Hellblazer 01 Im dissapointed with this one.
Quote from: Spade on June 10, 2015, 02:08:32 PM
Detective Comics 41 focuses on the other members of GCPD,Bullock in this case.
Constantine:The Hellblazer 01 Im dissapointed with this one.
Really? I was looking forward to Constantine. Between the TV show and the Injustice comic, I was really starting to like him.
Its a bit dragged down by not being a Vertigo series.But I dont know it was a bit bland IMO.Still early to judge thou.
To me Starfire 01 is the best DC comic of this week.If you liked Teen Titans in any form,you should pick it up.
Was New Years Evil series ever collected or reprinted?Its almost impossible to find.
Do you like female DC Superheroes? Do you like WWII? Do you like standalone series that you can read without having to buy a crap-ton of other books to understand what's going on in the larger universe? (I admit, I'm a bit biased on that last one.) Then you'll like DC Bombshells. More info at the link below.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-bombshells-series-drops-this-july-from-bennett-sauvage (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-bombshells-series-drops-this-july-from-bennett-sauvage)
Quote from: kkhohoho on June 14, 2015, 03:00:03 PM
Do you like female DC Superheroes? Do you like WWII? Do you like standalone series that you can read without having to buy a crap-ton of other books to understand what's going on in the larger universe? (I admit, I'm a bit biased on that last one.) Then you'll like DC Bombshells. More info at the link below.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-bombshells-series-drops-this-july-from-bennett-sauvage (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-bombshells-series-drops-this-july-from-bennett-sauvage)
That's cute. Maybe I'll finish my bombshell Wonder Woman...
Apparently, DC wanted to kill off Nightwing/Dick Grayson during InfiniteCrisis. And before that, they wanted to make him a gosh-darned Supervillain, among other things. More info at the link below.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/ (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/)
Quote from: kkhohoho on June 16, 2015, 05:05:39 PM
Apparently, DC wanted to kill off Nightwing/Dick Grayson during InfiniteCrisis. And before that, they wanted to make him a gosh-darned Supervillain, among other things. More info at the link below.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/ (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/)
I guess that's why they killed him in Injustice and faked his death in Forever Evil. His also became evil in The Dark Knight Strikes Again and was killed off. What do people have against Grayson???
Kinda justified in the Frankverse since Crazy Steve kidnapped him,locked him in the basement and forced him to eat rats.People hold grudges for that sort of thing.
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 16, 2015, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: kkhohoho on June 16, 2015, 05:05:39 PM
Apparently, DC wanted to kill off Nightwing/Dick Grayson during InfiniteCrisis. And before that, they wanted to make him a gosh-darned Supervillain, among other things. More info at the link below.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/ (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/)
I guess that's why they killed him in Injustice and faked his death in Forever Evil. His also became evil in The Dark Knight Strikes Again and was killed off. What do people have against Grayson???
Because he didn't know his place and tried to be anything other than Dick Grayson, Age 12; that's why. Why do you think Wally West got replaced with a black kid who has nothing to do with the original character? I'm also pretty sure Donna hasn't been seen around lately either, or at least not outside of Covergence. Basically, you either die a sidekick, or live long enough to see yourself become fricked over.
Quote from: kkhohoho on June 16, 2015, 07:07:20 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 16, 2015, 05:32:14 PM
Quote from: kkhohoho on June 16, 2015, 05:05:39 PM
Apparently, DC wanted to kill off Nightwing/Dick Grayson during InfiniteCrisis. And before that, they wanted to make him a gosh-darned Supervillain, among other things. More info at the link below.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/ (http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2015/06/dcs-plot-to-destroy-nightwing-is-even-older-than-we-thought/)
I guess that's why they killed him in Injustice and faked his death in Forever Evil. His also became evil in The Dark Knight Strikes Again and was killed off. What do people have against Grayson???
Because he didn't know his place and tried to be anything other than Dick Grayson, Age 12; that's why. Why do you think Wally West got replaced with a black kid who has nothing to do with the original character? I'm also pretty sure Donna hasn't been seen around lately either, or at least not outside of Covergence. Basically, you either die a sidekick, or live long enough to see yourself become fricked over.
Actually Donna Troy came back and challenge Wonder Woman for the throne and got her behind handed to her. It still proves your point thought
And they tried to recreate Daredevil: Born Again with Nightwing.Donna Troy will stick around.WW #41 will clarify on that.
And not everything is so bad for Dick Grayson.He has his own Bond style comic. XD
Justice League of America #1 Justice League Delta.Ah,DC and their wacky fonts. XD
At first I was like: Did they just recycle The Kingdom,but then I was like: That escalated quickly...
Wonder Woman #41 starts a new story-line.It was okay.
Started reading Injustice and my God,its Civil War :(
Supposedly Dan Didio isn't fond of Nightwing. IIRC it was him who wanted him to die in Finite Crisis but other creators (don't remember who) talked him out of it.
Spade, I haven't gone to the shop to pick up JLA yet, and I'm not sure if I'm going to want to pick it up regularly at full price. So a few questions:
1. How's the pace? I have it in my head for some reason that this book is going one of those arcs that take 6 issues to tell 1 issues worth of plot (maybe because that's how New 52 Justice League started, but maybe also because Bryan Hitch tends to do those kind of books.
2. How's the writing? One of the reasons I'm not sure about this book is because Hitch is also the writer, and I don't know if he can write.
3. How's the art? Hitch is great when he's not rushed, but he also has trouble getting a book out on time. The divide between "rushed Hitch" and "legit Hitch" is a fairy pronounced one. I saw preview pics earlier this week and those looked alright, probably not his best work but decent.
Artwork is pretty standard.Story is a bit slow for the first half,but thats a given since its the first issure.It was a good "debut" IMO.
Btw,Dicks death in Injustice was something out of Scary Movie.And Kyle Rayner suffers.Thats fresh...
Prez 01 - Political satire worthy of DK2.And is that the guy from Assasination Classroom?
Black Canary 01 - What was this actually about?Feels like I missed 20 previous issues.
Finished year 2 of Injustice.Like somebody roled the worst Marvel storylines into one.Its the comic equivalent of a car accident.Its horrible,but you cant look away.
Bit into the DC stack though mostly catching up on Bat books. Did read Starfire. Conner has been good to me with Harley so I thought why not. Wow, she drops more exposition than I do. Else reads like the serious version of the Harley book with the exception of Starfire herself who behaves like the character from the animated series. It is a well composed book though and if Conner has shown me anything she has a tendency to make her star come off airheaded only to surprise us later when they heel turn and show how smart and compassionate they can be (see Harley Quinn). I'm glad I saw the names on the cover, I was going to pass on this series originally.
Read Secret Six #3...yeesh I didn't even remember this one existed. I guess that's what happens when events suddenly break the cycle. Anyways it still holds up. I like the dynamic where most of the characters are hopeless villains through and through. I don't think this series is generate enough draw to keep going for a long time though.
Earth 2 remains E2...sort of. If I'm reading it right basically everything got mashed up into one book, that being Earth 2, Power Girl/Huntress and the mixed city dynamic from Convergence? It's a rough read mostly focusing on Dick. Everything else zips by and we don't get a lot of quality time with the rest. Hard to swallow that a what was it again...planet limited to twelve cities with sparse populations cultivated and monitored by super heroes became chaotic and over run by crime in a years time? I guess that's no less convoluted then convergence was. I like the characters so I'll stick in there.
Valentine's Catwoman remains a top pick and still surprisingly as I never thought I would be regarding that title so highly. It's just smart, elegantly done and has anything else a proper story should. I don't know how to feel about Gordan Batman. Gordan and the GCPD read fine but they did regardless of the upset here. The suit...well it's an eyesore. It looks like if the Tick and Mothman had a baby together, and it was a Gundam. Gordan's Batsuit however is pretty sharp. The stories are fine (Batman/Detective). I have a feeling it's the usual going to end in disaster to show the world (reader) why we need " X " character, in this case Bruce however. I hate that but I'm becoming more adjusted to atypical super hero book archetypes being in place so I'll swallow. Someone in the biz once told me there's only twelve possible plot combinations in Hollywood once? I never spent the time to research that but in at least a round-a-bout way it sort of factors into expectation. Or as many people put it " They can't all be Watchmen ". So it doesn't unfold badly just predictably so. New Batman will have obstacles in not being experienced in Batman's world. Eventually have showdowns with classic Batman rogues as well revamps of some to match his own new model. At sometime there will be this climatic battle where it all goes to hell and the original guy has to return and reign everything in. So going rate but the characters hold up.
Oh, I also read the New Suicide Squad ish. Eh. A bit of a tonal shift where Deadshot is once again center stage (likely movie props here) and Black Manta has been pushed to assist character position. An odd upheaval since the series started off on Manta. The team is still uncoordinated something that doesn't add up since most of them are veterans who have done this job together for some time now. The series continues to push into a military vs. terrorism dynamic mirroring real life news, this round featuring a take on Isis. That's better then the Marvel books focusing on fracking I guess but not my cup of tea. I read comics to escape reality and especially the news, not run straight to it. Another book where love for the characters justifies that I keep reading it but otherwise this ones getting pretty stale.
Didnt we already see in Battle for the Cowl what happens when Batman isnt around?And nobody but Bruce can be Batman for long.God forbid if they actually have different moral views.Poor JP,I still miss him.Batsuit actually reminds me of Shockwave.Its not very Gundamesque.Thou that would actually be cool.
Earth 2 heroes stayed on Telos for real?How does that work?
Suicide Squad-Its pretty obvious who the League is supposed to be.Not sure why did they do that.
The thing about the current volume of Secret Six is that it has been delayed to an absurd degree. There doesn't seem to be a lot of talk about it, but I'm certain it's the artist's fault, as the book's switching to the artist who did the original Villains United miniseries that launched Secret Six, Dale Eaglesham (who I like a lot better anyway).
I havn't read issue 3 yet, but as for the first two, while I usually really like Gail Simone's writing, including in previous volumes of SS, I wasn't in love with this book. Seems a bit slow moving and I don't find the roster of characters as good as in the past (which makes sense, some of them such as Deadshot are held up elsewhere in DC comics). Might take further reading for it to really click for me.
Yeah the roster is real vague. I was into a few of them (New 52 Ventriloquist, Catman and Black Alice) before so I'm home team backing this one. Catman is an animal lover against abuse which is also a big draw for me. It's not going to measure up to the previous Secret Six of course, that was a cult classic hit. It's best to view this as it's own book or at least as the first three issues have shown Catman's series as he's the star. So it's a toss up whether one should read it. I wouldn't give it top props nor suggest against it though with the exception of it's probable early cancellation. I can't tell the future but I can do trends and pars and this one just isn't going to make it without major event tie-in endorsement and/or bringing in a big name character much as the previous series had Bane. I'd say if you have other books on the list pick them off first lest your looking for some action from those specific characters. The first three issues have all been set-up which agreed makes for a slow moving vehicle.
@Spade: Just a guess but the real life counterparts are infamous for attacking cartoonists for mocking them. Art and freedom of speech are nice and all but endangering ones own family over a value is carelessness. Not aware of the go to reason of course but I wouldn't doubt if there's some red tape to that effect there.
Injustice Year 3 Remember when I said this is Civil war,AvX,One More Day and Ultimatum all rolled into one?Well I was wrong!THIS IS WAY WORSE THEN ANY OF THOSE!
They killed Kyle Rayner,Martian Manhunter,Captain Atom,but when they bend the reality just to kill Swamp Thing,THATS JUST MORONIC!
For the first time in my life I hate Batman.Batman here is a hypocritical ambiguously foreborn,plain and simple.He makes a deal with a demon instead of helping his friends improve the world,the accuses Superman of losing his humanity.What the hell hero,indead?He betrays his oldest friends,claims to fight tyranny while being even worst,manipulates his followers then abandons them,imprisons his own son together with said friends,makes a deal with a demon.And finally,he and John Constantine are responsible for killing the embodiment of nature,while saving the world.AND WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CHEERING FOR THESE PEOPLE!
I was thinking about getting the game,but now-NOW WAY IN HELL! :thumbdown:
Quote from: Spade on June 20, 2015, 05:38:57 PM
Injustice Year 3 Remember when I said this is Civil war,AvX,One More Day and Ultimatum all rolled into one?Well I was wrong!THIS IS WAY WORSE THEN ANY OF THOSE!
They killed Kyle Rayner,Martian Manhunter,Captain Atom,but when they bend the reality just to kill Swamp Thing,THATS JUST MORONIC!
For the first time in my life I hate Batman.Batman here is a hypocritical ambiguously foreborn,plain and simple.He makes a deal with a demon instead of helping his friends improve the world,the accuses Superman of losing his humanity.What the hell hero,indead?He betrays his oldest friends,claims to fight tyranny while being even worst,manipulates his followers then abandons them,imprisons his own son together with said friends,makes a deal with a demon.And finally,he and John Constantine are responsible for killing the embodiment of nature,while saving the world.AND WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE CHEERING FOR THESE PEOPLE!
I was thinking about getting the game,but now-NOW WAY IN HELL! :thumbdown:
Still get the game. The book is suppose to happen before the game, but with year 3 & 4, they went in a different direction. Year 1 & 2 were great and maybe they should have ended it there
Cant comment on the game.And I commented on Years 1/2.I admit its a good idea,but the execution is horrible.
Quote from: Spade on June 20, 2015, 06:38:47 PM
Cant comment on the game.And I commented on Years 1/2.I admit its a good idea,but the execution is horrible.
Injustice was basically the poor mans' 'A Better World'. They tried to do a good 'Supes and League go rouge' story, but compared to A Better World, it's like if a grade-schooler tried to write Shakespeare, that's what it is.
Govermants plan for hero going rogue?Have Mirror Master kidnap their parents.Seriously,thats it.
And thats only about fifth dumbest thing here.
About the League being more proactive...they tried that once,and it was horrible.The whole subject was aped HUNDREDS of times by now.And there were only 2 good stories.Both by Warren Ellis.Now why EVERYONE and their brother tries to write a story about heroes being more "proactive"?
Quote from: Spade on June 21, 2015, 05:29:09 AM
And there were only 2 good stories.
Make that 3; you forgot about 'A Better World'. (That was from Justice League, by the way; the TV show, not the comic.)
Dvd commentary quotes Authority as the inspiration.And The Elite is Authority for pretty much all purpoises.But those were deconstruction stories,while Injustice...is Injustice.
Like I said,your supposed to be pro-Batman,but here hes a hypocritical ambiguously foreborn.One side is bad,the other is worst,and likable characters die all over the place.I can not stress this enough: The comic LITTERARLY bends reality just to kill Swamp Thing.
Can't speak for the later years, but I've heard really good things about Year 1-2 of Injustice. I also read the first issue on Comixology a while ago and I really liked that.
The "proactive hero" thing has kinda been done to death now. Even when the game was first coming out there were eyerolls about the premise on here. It was being compared to A Better World (which I agree, was pretty awesome).
I almost bought it when it first came out mainly just for reference material for a skin but I'm leery of cross-promotion/merchandizing ventures as well " try " to keep it down to one reality as not to overwhelm myself (Marvel of course wasn't listening to my pleas). Too many other things on my list of TPB's to catch up on I think to make space for Injustice I think. Probably won't ever end up reading it lest I find an amazing bargain on the trades, like flea market price amazing.
Dont mean to discourage you guys or anything,but I really cant recommend this to anyone.
Btw,wasnt the inability of Green Lanterns to save Krypton already addressed?IIRC,Tomat Tu was the GL of the Kryptonian sector and there was nothing he could do?
Quote from: Spade on June 22, 2015, 05:10:01 AM
Btw,wasnt the inability of Green Lanterns to save Krypton already addressed?IIRC,Tomat Tu was the GL of the Kryptonian sector and there was nothing he could do?
Back in the 70's, yeah, but DC Continuity is a tricky thing. One day, Supes might have a cousin, and the next he might not. One minute, Batman might have been turned into a gorilla and had a 4th dimensional imp following him around back in the 60's, and then suddenly be crying for mommy and daddy in the cold wet rain the next. In other words, that one story from the 70's may not really apply to current DC Continuity anymore, sad to say. (And that's not getting into the adaptations...)
This is the problem with all superheroes in general. They lived past their time. Superman & Batman are both 76 years old in our time, if the comics stayed true to that then we should be seeing Kingdom Come, or Batman Beyond by now, but we're not. Writers have to keep their characters fresh, so things that may have happen in the past (like the multi color Batman suits) would not applied to the current Batman comic.
I believe one time Marvel or DC addressed this by stating that in their universe, time runs slower than our universe, so that's why heroes who should be in a wheelchair are still running around fighting crime.
Ah,the fabled comic-book time.Because nobody would want a 75 years old Batman.And it varies from story to story does Superman age at all.
Injustice is different universe,so they can do basicly whatever they want,ignoring the continuity.In the case of Earth One thats a great thing,here...not so much.
Im not that familiar with Trigon,but isnt he an extradimensional alien or something,and not THE devil?But I could be wrong.Hell is a very confusing in DCU.
Just how DEVIOUS would a 75-year-old Batman be? (Yes, I've seen Batman Beyond).
Well,there is Batman: Year 100...
Im going thru some Blackest Night tie-in.Superboy-Prime busts into DCs office and blames Dan DiDio for screwing up his life.That was hilarious.
Its PRIME time! I was saving that one! XD
DC announced their upcoming collected editions.And its pretty suprising.
Legacy/Contagion,Cassandra Cain:Batgirl,John Ostanders Suicide Squad and Azrael by Denis O'neil.Im guessing Arkham Knight is responsible for the last one.But thank you DC,in any case.I was waiting for this one. :)
Ah yes, the Blackest Night Superboy Prime story. I read that when it came out. Very meta, I thought it was hilarious too.
That spun out of the ending of Final Crisis: Legion of the Three Worlds, by the way. If you haven't read that I highly recommend it. It was really good. Some of George Perez's best artwork.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on June 23, 2015, 07:51:55 PM
Ah yes, the Blackest Night Superboy Prime story. I read that when it came out. Very meta, I thought it was hilarious too.
That spun out of the ending of Final Crisis: Legion of the Three Worlds, by the way. If you haven't read that I highly recommend it. It was really good. Some of George Perez's best artwork.
Thanks,I might check that out.
Grayson #9 A new storyline,but nothing really changed.If you didnt like Grayson before,this isnt going to change your opinion.
Justice League 3001 I really enjoyed this one.Its really funny and witty.The story arc is Starro War.So they parody a story that isnt even out yet?Impresive. :)
We are Robin Its a story about a boy from THE HOOD.Yeah,original. <_<
Robin(s) appear in 1 panel.Kinda dissapointed by this one.
Batman Beyond #2 Its Terminator mixed with DoFP.Yeah...not my thing...
Bat-Mite #2 I love the little guy.He cracks me up. :thumbup:
Bat-Mite: Hawkman,three word...FULL.BODY.WAX.Seriously,dude...manscaping.
The Dark-Mite returns! :thumbup: :thumbup:
Bizzaro #2 Another great comedy.You should avoid it,because it has no chupacabras at all.Gett it,Bizzaro-speak...not important. XD
Villain of the story is a used car salesman with hypnotic powers.IT IS BRILLIANT. :D
JL Gods and Monsters #1 Its a Year One story for Batman.Looks promising.
Midnighter #2 Its still just okay.But its the only Wildstorm character with his own comic so we cant really complain.I like that it shows different places.Like Oakland or Moscow.Nice change of scenery.
Detective comics #42 Jim isnt doing that great in his new role. :unsure:
Batman 42 At this point I wonder why they bother with the mecha-suit.It always malfunctions,or is incapacitated in some way. <_<
More news on Bruce.
JLA #2 Its a bit like Divinity,but with a more religious bent.Artwork seems a bit rushed on few panels.But in general,its okay.
Section 8 #2 -Hello,Homeland security?I like to report... :lol:
Attept to recruit Green Lantern doesnt work out that well.
-No forget it.After what happend to Rayner...You will hear from my lawyer! :lol:
Starfire #2 I see the story somewhat forming.Still pretty good.
It took a bit of consideration but I think I'm going to say Supergirl Matrix was my favorite Convergence title. Probably because Ambush Bug but that's always a direct enough reason imo. Where were the Thrillkiller characters BTW? I'm Brereton-hard and was excited when I saw them advertized but didn't run across them in the ones I read I read.
Wildcats were also advertised,but didnt appear in Convergence.I know this was to be an epilogue to older versions of characters,but I would have liked to see Retaliators or Superdemon more then 3 versions of Superman.
Some more stuff nobody cares about:
Red Hood Arsenal #2 If your familiar with Lobdells work on these characters,its still pretty much the same.Its not bad,but its not stellar either.Jokes are kinda juvenile,still.
Justice League G&M Its 10 issues in,and its interesting.Again,not stellar but its okay.And Batman is possibly gay.
This is newly announced crossover is so nuts that i can't wait to see it
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/0/40/4679089-batman_tmnt_02.jpg)
http://www.comicvine.com/articles/sdcc-2015-batman-and-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-/1100-152869/
Star Trek/Green Lantern was well accepted,so more crossovers with IDW. ^_^
Wonder if they will crossover with Transformers? :)
Star Wars and GL crossed over? Crazy. :)
The thing I'm most excited about the Batman/TMNT crossover is Batman facing off with the Shredder.
I can't think of many matchups cooler than that!! :D
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 11, 2015, 07:10:19 PM
Star Wars and GL crossed over? Crazy. :)
Yup,issue 1 of 6 is out.As far as company crossovers go,it was great.
Quote from: Spade on July 12, 2015, 05:44:20 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 11, 2015, 07:10:19 PM
Star Wars and GL crossed over? Crazy. :)
Yup,issue 1 of 6 is out.As far as company crossovers go,it was great.
Wasn`t it Star Trek?
Quote from: spydermann93 on July 11, 2015, 09:03:24 PM
The thing I'm most excited about the Batman/TMNT crossover is Batman facing off with the Shredder.
I can't think of many matchups cooler than that!! :D
Was thinking the same! There is no way they'd miss on doing that!
Yes,I meant Star Trek.I apologise.
^ That. The best SDCC news yesterday where the Turtles announcements imo.
Also read that Mutliversity won out. Good for that and Grant, they did a good job and deserve the praise there like I rambled about earlier.
Whoops! I misread. :P
More news.Upcoming Flash Earth One by Straczynski and Aquaman Earth One by Francis Manapul.
Ohhh yeah. Batman/TMNT. I fanboyed out.
Actually, my non-comics reading friend immediately asked if Batman would fight Shredder. Giving the description of the book, the ongoing plot of IDW's TMNT, and the way TMNT/Ghostbusters was done, I'm not sure if ol' Shred Head would be in it (not caught up in the current issues).
PICK UP JUSTICE LEAGUE 42 IS A MUST FOR ALL DC FANS
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/07/14/tomorrow-another-dc-comics-secret-identity-goes-public-spoilers/
Mind Blown!! It took DC 75years to finally tell us this.
Quote from: JeyNyce on July 15, 2015, 02:09:21 AM
PICK UP JUSTICE LEAGUE 42 IS A MUST FOR ALL DC FANS
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/07/14/tomorrow-another-dc-comics-secret-identity-goes-public-spoilers/
Mind Blown!! It took DC 75years to finally tell us this.
Yeah,about that...
JL 42 does reveal the Jokers name.
Spoiler
But ONLY to Batman.Who comments:But...thats impossible.And Batman does become a god by sitting in Metrons chair.
Yeah, that's kinda making a mountain out of nothing. Great issue though. I'm still really enjoying JL.
Just read Secret Six #4.
Spoiler
I was on the fence about this new SS volume, but the previous issue's ending reveal of Big Shot as Ralph Dibney (never would have guessed that in a thousand years), and Mockingbird as Riddler (unexpected, but neat), my interest was increased. This issue: oh man! Scandal, Jeanette, and Ragdoll? This is like Gail Simone's love letter to the long time fans! Also, Gail's making me want a chili dog, and some pecan sandies.
But its worth mentioning that Batman obviously knew that person,and it could have been somebody close to him.We probably wont find out who is it,anyway.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on July 16, 2015, 01:11:37 AM
Yeah, that's kinda making a mountain out of nothing. Great issue though. I'm still really enjoying JL.
Just read Secret Six #4.
Spoiler
I was on the fence about this new SS volume, but the previous issue's ending reveal of Big Shot as Ralph Dibney (never would have guessed that in a thousand years), and Mockingbird as Riddler (unexpected, but neat), my interest was increased. This issue: oh man! Scandal, Jeanette, and Ragdoll? This is like Gail Simone's love letter to the long time fans! Also, Gail's making me want a chili dog, and some pecan sandies.
I know, but like you said it was a good issue. It kind of bugs me a little that even though all of this is taking place in the New 52, I'm reading one issue where Supes is all powerful and Bruce Wayne is Batman, then I pick up another New 52 book and Supes is de-power and Gordon is Batman. Make up your mind already DC!
^Thats their new policy of loose timeline.Everything happens,but not at the same time.JL happens before the changes you mentioned.
Which is kind of a Spoiler if you think about it. Supes, Bats and WW will make it out ok. I'm assuming that Bats will forget who the Joker really is because there were mention of it during the events in Batman....(well maybe not because he did say that he was going to rest with his friend at the end) Still, it's annoying.
I guess you could split the titles as ones happening pre Convergence (JLA,JL) and post-Convergence ones(Batman,Superman etc).And ones you really cant sort like Bizarro and Bat-Mite.
www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/07/09/dc-entertainment-provides-new-details-for-dark-knight-iii-the-master-race (http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/07/09/dc-entertainment-provides-new-details-for-dark-knight-iii-the-master-race)
More news about Dark Knight 3.Good news is that Brian Azzarello is involved,so this actually has a chance.
I'm kinda curious if they can manage to redeem that series after the bizarre trainwreck that is Dark Knight Strikes Again. Not planning to pick this up unless I hear good things. Wasn't a big fan of the Dark Knight Returns comic to begin with.
Really liked Secret Six #4 as well, sorry late to the party. I've had good vibes about that book from the start. Glad to see them pay off. I'm betting this book won't last but it's telling a good story. Speaking of late to the party and I'm sure this was covered here already but...what continuity or time is this new Justice League book supposed to be happening in? I swear I'm reading this and it has no correlation to current events at all more it's like a " in spirit " book or something. Also a ton of grade A movie tie-in stuff happening here. I just don't get it but I missed whatever memo going in. I picked it up thinking it was a renumbered of continuation of the JL I was reading but looking at I don't know what or when it is. Anyone?
If your talking about JLA,its happening sometimes in the early days of Justice League,I belive.During the first 5 years or something like that.
JL 3001 #2- I like how DC has enogh spirit to joke at their own expense.
Im Maxwell Lords,but not the maniac who shot Blue Beetle.Im the nice guy from JLI.
Flash is only here to tie into the TV show.But this one is a girl. :D
Cyborg #1- It just seemed kinda generic.Cyborg strugles with his identity while mysterious aliens are doing mysterious things.
Yeah JLA would be the one, the one with the Kryptonian God. It seems like pure pre-modelling for the upcoming film and not anchored in New 52 continuity really. I don't really like it and am probably not going to stay with it.
The new JLA series would be good if DC go their time line together. I want to enjoy the story but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking: When did this happen? Is this going to affect the rest of the 52? Where does the heck does this fits in the 52 universe???!!
Quote from: JeyNyce on July 27, 2015, 02:57:01 PM
The new JLA series would be good if DC go their time line together. I want to enjoy the story but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking: When did this happen? Is this going to affect the rest of the 52? Where does the heck does this fits in the 52 universe???!!
Almost like they didnt even care,right? :blink:
Seriously thou,the continuity is very loose.That problem persist from 2011.Blame Bob Harras for having no clue what hes doing.
Just that they now decided to roll with it.Idea is that a new reader will pick up a book from #1 and understand it without knowing so much about the continuity,or the book being tied up with others.How much that worked...well,its a mixed bag for me.
Okay I kind of get it now. Basically it's canon but in it's own little world, kind of like a lot of Remenders stuff at Marvel has been. Meh. Still not really digging it, the other JL book already fills the void well enough for me. Really is a movie primer though. I'm just going to drop that one from the pull list. I actually got confused somehow and thought it tied right into the other series but it doesn't and I hate double booking so that that.
i did end up picking up the first issue of JLA and liked it alright, but didn't feel the need to pick up issue 2. The continuity's pretty loose/ambiguous and it didn't grab me. I don't now if I feel it has to play off current continuity to be worth reading, but it would help, and I'm enjoying Johns' book a lot more.
Incidentally I just bought a trade of the original Waid/Hitch run of JLA, which was the only part of that era I was missing. I haven't gotten to it yet (I'm finishing up Batman Eternal Vol. 1) but I'm still stoked about it.
Speaking of continuity and Batman Eternal,there is a slight problem with the story.Architect.He and Batman imply that Gates of Gotham did happen.Only problem is that Cassandra Cain was never Batgirl in the Nu52,and shes in Gates.Not really that important,I just like to complain. XD
Oh,and Sinestro Corps has a Predator.
(http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/4/46984/1421213-predator_sinestro.jpg)
I like the current GL books. I had to dismiss placement though to enjoy them. More outside the books where it doesn't make sense that a character can be in two places at once (anyone see Simon anywhere, lol). Inside the books the story seems to acknowledge most Pre-FP events yet disregards who is dead or alive be that in the Green or Sinestro titles though. So I sort of pick up on it, say to myself " whut? That character is dead? (I mean I'm pretty into skinning these characters and have lists of who is among the living or nay)" then just blink and move on with the story. Still enjoyable, Sinestro Corps is the best right now imo though GLC is heating up. Larfleeze was the best overall of the New 52 ones but it stood apart on it's own like Superior Foes did for Marvel giving it a unique flavor.
I read Legion of 3 worlds.It was pretty good.Bit confusing for me since im not all that familiar with the Legion of Super Heroes.
In the end Superboy Prime is in his parents basement,complaining online about DC.Nice one DC,nice one...
All-star section 8
Martian Manhunter: I hear these voices,they are saying: You ****,you just fight other **** like yourself to preserve the status quo,you never really change anything.But as a superhero,I learned to ignore them.
Dont worry MM,its just Garth Ennis,we all learned to ignore his oppinions.Seriously,I liked some of his works,but the men shouldnt be allowed neer superheroes.
Variants are becoming a common place now. November will be Looney Tunes Month
http://comicbook.com/2015/08/14/exclusive-looney-tunes-variants-for-aquaman-batman-superman-deat/#Image5
Well, I LOVED the Darwyn Cooke one, but this is rather silly. :P
Like someone in the comment section said I wish these were done in the same artstyle, they look copy/paste as it is. I still like them, though, harley/gossamer one is pretty funny
Monsters lead such IN-teresting lives...
Here's the complete set. 25 in total
http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2015/08/14/the-complete-set-of-dc-comics-looney-tunes-variant-covers
I like the Wonder Woman & Cyborg covers the best
Ha, I like the Marvin the Martian one and the Starfire one.
The Batman one with Rocky & Mugsy followed by the Harley Quinn one with Gossamer (I have a special place for the character). Love em. I'd wear a t-shirt with either of those images printed on it.
Catwoman and Black Carney are cool too. I won't be surprise if these covers does get turn into shirts.
Wonder Woman and Fudd need to be my new phone wallpaper.
I know its been some time and DC doesnt want to clarify it,but did Convergence undo Crisis on Infinite Earth?
No. It was an inwrite. So Crisis happened but something we didn't see originally also happened. Sort of like how when Marvel did Original Sin just for a comparison. It was technically undone by the reboot which Convergence showed though. I think I tried to explain this before but the gist of it is all those old past timelines happened, but they then Converged with each other and spit out the other side to form the New 52 timelines which contain elements of the old but are not the same canon anymore. So it happened but it's not past as far as New 52 is concerned though neither is anything else. It's not canon to New 52. It is canon and still happened to pre-New 52. Sorry I'm a little tired, I hope I explained that right. Just refer yourself back to the two spread pages in the last ish (#8) of Convergence showing the past and present merging timelines, that pretty much spells it all out.
If I understood it,the point was to make everything canon,just on different Earths.So,married Superman and Lois live somewhere in the Multiverse,just that Earth isnt represented in the 52-Multiversity.
Not really. Think of it as two separate canons. The one that proceeded it and the latter. Crisis is part of the proceeding canon. They're all joined at the Convergence event only and according to how it rolls out apparently always were but anyone was just finding that out at that moment. So in issue #8 the first spread page shows the dimensions/timelines (some) that are contained within the old canon, the second spread image shows ones that are in the second canon. Like speaking of my avatar if you ever read Homestuck it's pretty much the same concept that's played out in that webcomic.
I havent read Homestuck.
There are still only 52 Earths in the Multiverse?And the previous versions of characters are in a whole different Multiverse if I understood you right?
I " think " so, hence the New 52 though I'm not clear on it and yet the writers play it loose now so that's part of it. And yes that's exactly it. Like two disks, Disk A continuity and Disk B continuity. Anything on either is joined by one event but otherwise isn't fully canon to the other. They played with a lot of temporal mechanics in that last issue imo was probably the smartest part of the whole series. I mind that it's just a matter of time before they shovel dirt over the whole concept and rewrite everything anyways, same goes for Marvel and it's current restructuring. Better to read the stories and not be bogged down by all that especially when most of the individual writers don't seem to be minding it themselves. In effect I consider the low road and that both companies may have in part made a " get out of jail free card " of sorts that allows the writes to get on with stories as they see fit and not necessarily have to mind every minute detail of continuity. After all whose to say what happened when and now anymore? And really that may not be a bad thing, I mean writers focusing more on telling a story instead of making sure every little thing matches up as well having to throw out story ideas just on the basis " they're not canon ". Quality over succinctness or some such thing.
JLA #3 Pretty sure thats intentional since Bryan Hitch was involved in both projects,but doesn't Rao look a bit like Apollo?
Also hes a more hands on version of Divinity,Im calling it right now.
Injustice was already a melting pot of bad stories,but year four works in Amazons Attack.Un-fraking-belivable.
The first two years of Injustice was pretty good. The problem was that they had to stretch it out because it pretty much caught up with the game.
I avoided Lord Havok and The Extremist because it was a Countdown tie in,but now that I did read it...I didnt really miss much.Civil War/Ultimates parody was somewhat interesting.but otherwise such wasted potential...
I wonder how long before Harley Quinns in comic appearance changes and mirrors the SS film one. I don't why that just struck but it did and I'm almost willing to bank on it.
SA, she's already not that far away, but yeah, I imagine it will shift that way eventually, unless the movie is a big flop.
Bat-Mite #4This time he "fixes" Booster Gold. :lol:
In the next issue(Superior Six) he will fix The Inferior Five.Hmm,who could they be parodies of?
Quote from: Spade on September 02, 2015, 12:45:17 PM
Bat-Mite #4This time he "fixes" Booster Gold. :lol:
In the next issue(Superior Six) he will fix The Inferior Five.Hmm,who could they be parodies of?
It's either the Jackson Five or the Fantastic Four, but I won't spoil it for you :lol:
And here I thought it was the Magnificent Seven.
Midnighter #4 Guesst stars Dick Grayson.In sauna.There is some subtext there.And I guess the story focuses more on Russia from now on.
I'm totally warming up to BatbunnyGordan.
http://www.newsarama.com/25131-superman-lois-clark-coming-of-the-supermen-titans-hunt-and-telos-announced.html (http://www.newsarama.com/25131-superman-lois-clark-coming-of-the-supermen-titans-hunt-and-telos-announced.html)
Convergence gets spinoffs.
Superman:Lois and Clark
Coming of the Supermen
Titans Hunt
Telos
Also,I guess that solves the question of multiverse after Convergence.
With these new books coming out, I'm expecting DC to cancel some of their current titles.
Forgot to mention it when we talked about stories that homaged or subverted The Authority--JLA Ultramarine Corps.
Superman: These no-nonsense sollution of yours just dont hold water in the complex world of time travel and jet-powered apes.
Yep, I remember that. JLA Classified #1-3 by Grant Morrison, which, of course, has continuity with his Batman run because Morrison's cool like that.
I remember a reviewer calling Morrison "supercompressed" to counter decompression made famous by writers like Bendis, and this storyarc summed it up best. Micro universe, robot duplicates, and giant apes taking over a major U.S. city (state? it's been too long), and none of it was elaborated in detail. That's Grant Morrison for ya. And I kinda love it.
It also picks up from his JLA run and carries over into Seven Soldiers.Which carries over into Final Crisis.Morrisons work for DC is pretty much one huge story.
I was right:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/five-dc-titles-to-end-in-december-including-justice-league-united-and-lobo
Coming of Supermen will pit a trio of Supermen against every Jack Kirby creation.Or at least every owned by DC.
Superman:American Alien will be an anthology series.Thats all we know about it.
Im actually looking forward to Dan Abnett writing Titans.
Not really sure where to put this, but a bit of news coming out of the Gotham TV show (http://screenrant.com/gotham-season-2-bill-finger-batman-credit/) that has an impact on the greater whole... DC has reached accommodations with Bill Finger's family, and will now be able to give him proper credit for his part in the creation of the Batman character (Something most of us already knew, but due to a longstanding contract with Bob Kane, DC has up until now been unable to credit Bill Finger properly for his MANY contributions to the character).
So if I got
Superman Lois and Clark right:
Spoiler
Crisis on Infinite Earths has been retconed.And the "old" Superman has been living in the N52 universe since Justice League: Origin?Only hes Clark White now.
If that's true:
Spoiler
That's pretty crazy. Old Superman's role in Infinite Crisis was an important one, I kinda wonder how that went down if he's still around in the new universe.
It plays out kinda like this:
Spoiler
God-Brainiac returned everyone to their universes,but first sent them back in time of the first Crisis to prevent the collapse of the Multiverse.With Anti-Monitors defeat time and the multivers reset them-self.(Panel shows a large number of Earths.)By old I meant pre-Flashpoint Superman.
And I checked,this is Prime Earth,the mainstream DC-Earth.
Upcoming Titans Hunt will retroactively introduce Titans history into the current continuity.Basically fix everything Scott Lobdell did.
Question is: is the old continuity returning? :unsure:
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Inferior_Five_(New_Earth) :D
^And Bat-Mites idea for rebooting them is making them darker and edgier,thou thats his idea for rebooting everyone. ;)
I am enjoying the Lois and Clark. During the scene when Superman, Flash, Supergirl, and Green Lantern are fighting the Anti-Monitor it shows Flash and Supergirl going back to their worlds. Does this mean they didn't die in the fight? :o
Quote from: Spade on October 17, 2015, 05:29:45 AM
^And Bat-Mites idea for rebooting them is making them darker and edgier,thou thats his idea for rebooting everyone. ;)
Not exactly, it's that he's making them more like the present version of Batman.
All star Section 8 was actually hilarious.Phantom Stranger and Etrigan campaign for Demon by Garth Ennis to be collected.
Spoiler: it will be.Now only if they ever collected the whole Spectre by John Ostander...
Forgot to ask: did anyone read last weeks Titan Hunt?Thought?
Passed on Titans Hunt. Looked pretty good though.
I actually read some of John Ostrander's Spectre series about 10 years ago or so....damn good series.
^Yes it was.But only the first 22 issues were collected IIRC.Damn shame.
Im sure I mentioned it before,but Titans Hunt #1 was pretty good.Maybe its too soon to give the final verdict,but its sets up a good mystery.
Well Bat-Mite is over.It was a good run,anyway, :)
The mysterious villain in Midnighter was
Spoiler
Prometheus
Its nice to see him again.
Hey, good news from the Aquaman book. Apparently Cullen Bunn is taking his ball and going home:
http://www.newsarama.com/26571-cullen-bunn-leaves-aquaman-over-fan-reaction.html
I'm sorry that he thinks folks were so ugly to him (and knowing the internet, he's probably not overreacting), especially given the fact that, ultimately, this is all DC's fault. They removed the best creative team Aquaman has had in 30+ years and went with a "bold new direction" no one asked for and which was exactly the opposite of what fans clearly wanted. They took one of the few bright, heroic books that DC was putting out and made it dark and gritty. It was a stupid move, and while Bunn's work was certainly not awful on its own merits, it was utterly wrong for Aquaman. I can't say how much I hated Aquaman and Mera being at odds again, and I'm pretty sure I'm in the vast majority there.
The only question is, what happens now? I hope against hope that they'll bring Jeff Parker back.
So I caught up on the current Secret Six.It not nearly as good as the original series,but its not bad.Major kudos for retconing away Identity Crisis,keeping some continuity from the old series and bringing back Etrigan. :cool:
I know its nothing official,but Geoff Johns confirmed on twitter that JSA(original) will play a part in Titans Hunt.It would be great if they would bring the JSA back.
Quote from: BentonGrey on November 12, 2015, 01:14:39 AM
Hey, good news from the Aquaman book. Apparently Cullen Bunn is taking his ball and going home:
http://www.newsarama.com/26571-cullen-bunn-leaves-aquaman-over-fan-reaction.html
I'm sorry that he thinks folks were so ugly to him (and knowing the internet, he's probably not overreacting), especially given the fact that, ultimately, this is all DC's fault. They removed the best creative team Aquaman has had in 30+ years and went with a "bold new direction" no one asked for an which was exactly the opposite of what fans clearly wanted. They took one of the few bright, heroic books that DC was putting out and made it dark and gritty. It was a stupid move, and while Bunn's work was certainly not awful on its own merits, it was utterly wrong for Aquaman. I can't say how much I hated Aquaman and Mera being at odds again, and I'm pretty sure I'm in the vast majority there.
The only question is, what happens now? I hope against hope that they'll bring Jeff Parker back.
Dan Abnett's writing him next starting issue #49 (Funnily enough, #49 was the end of his run for 90s Aquaman), I haven't really read 90s Aquaman so no idea how he is. Glad to see someone else enjoyed the Parker run too. Though I think Johns confirmed he is also returning sometime in the future to do his Seven Seas Arc.
All Star Section 8 is over.The whole DC universe might just be a dream of a drunkard dying in the gutter.Classy.But it would actually explain a lot.
In Midnighter #7 Prometheus is back.And his credibility decays yet again.From nearly defeating the JLA to getting his arse kicked by Midnighter.
Quote from: trebean on November 20, 2015, 09:09:22 AM
Dan Abnett's writing him next starting issue #49 (Funnily enough, #49 was the end of his run for 90s Aquaman), I haven't really read 90s Aquaman so no idea how he is. Glad to see someone else enjoyed the Parker run too. Though I think Johns confirmed he is also returning sometime in the future to do his Seven Seas Arc.
Hmm, what's Dan Abnett done? I heard that Johns was coming back, and I've got mixed feelings about that. On the one hand, it means Aquaman is going to be staying around for a while, so that's good, but on the other hand, John's run was a mixed bag and he's all too modern-flavored of a writer for my tastes. He relies on show over stay. Still, I'm sure it will be vastly better than Bunn's run.
Benton, Abnett (along with his frequent collaborator, Andy Lanning) is one of my favorites. His big claim to fame is the Marvel cosmic titles before Bendis took over Guardians of the Galaxy. Annihilation: Nova, Annihilation: Conquest, War of Kings, Guardians, Nova, Realm of Kings, The Thanos Imperative, Guardians 3000 and now Guardians of Infinity. He also did a run on New Mutants (which admittedly I didn't read past the first issue, so I can't speak to its quality), and did a run of Heroes of Hire that I remember liking, but not loving. He did a mini after that called Villains for Hire. As mentioned earlier in the thread, he's the writer on Titans Hunt, and back in the day he did work for Marvel U.K.
Thanks SS, I haven't read any of those, but I've heard good things about many of them. Here's hoping that he provides a good antidote to Bunn's disaster.
http://collectededitions.blogspot.com/2015/12/starman-omnibus-vol-3-is-coming-aquaman.html (http://collectededitions.blogspot.com/2015/12/starman-omnibus-vol-3-is-coming-aquaman.html)
You will probably be interested to hear about Aquaman by Geoff Johns omnibus.Other collections include everything by Greg Rucka,Demon by Garth Ennis(hell yeah),bunch of Swamp Thing and Supergirl collections.And also Teen Titans Earth One v2 by Jeff Lemire.Btw there is a proof he can write good team titles.
Anyone remembers Darkstars?By Keith Giffen and Travis Cherest IIRC.Its actually hard to prove the series ever existed.So my question is was the series ever collected?Was anything from the series collected?Appreciate if anyone has some info.
Okay, I got a Kindle for my birthday. And, of course, there are free books galore, some of which are even worth it. One of them is a kind of overview of DC graphic novels and story arc collections.
The thing is, almost all of them are "Game Changers", and "Things Will Never Be The Same", and "Totally Changing The Future Of (The Series, The character, Comics, Et cetera). I know it's hyperbole, but it loses any effect (or enticement) when you have page after page of these.
I miss the Silver Age. Heck, I miss the Bronze Age.
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134011-dc-throwing-everything-at-the-wall-to-see-what-sticks-in-march-2016-solicitations.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134011-dc-throwing-everything-at-the-wall-to-see-what-sticks-in-march-2016-solicitations.html)
Lets see the future:
-Batman and Superman are back(called it)
-Supermans son might be the next Superboy,or Magog(just a theory)
-Aquawoman?
-Legends of Tommorow comic
-Grant Morrisons and Mark Millars run on Flash is collected at last.
Robert Veditti is writing Flash?I missed that somehow.
-Tellos and Parallax team up.Let me guess,it leads to an EVENT?
Dont know how many of you are still reading Justice League,but any thought on Darkseid War?
Like any DC event in the past few years,for me,its been just ok.At least DC is consistent.
Justice League is ok for now. I think the writing was better before. The Darksied war is not all that in my opinion. It should have been called the Death of Darksied. It seems like the was wasn't the big thing, it was the after effects of the war that seems to be the big thing. Oh well, let's see how long it will last.
Quote from: Spade on November 04, 2015, 03:33:51 PM
Well Bat-Mite is over.It was a good run,anyway, :)
I finally got to read this thing. It does raise a couple of questions, such as just where does Bat-Mite come from, but all in all it was fun.
How may of you are old enough to remember when DC offered Super-Mite, Bat-Mite, and Wonder-Mite dolls?
From the Fifth Dimension,which is imagination.Then again Batman was on drugs for that explanation so its not really credible.Since they revealed the identity of Phantom Stranger(hes Judas),we need some other mysteries?
Quote from: Spade on December 19, 2015, 06:41:19 PM
From the Fifth Dimension,which is imagination.Then again Batman was on drugs for that explanation so its not really credible.Since they revealed the identity of Phantom Stranger(hes Judas),we need some other mysteries?
I mean in the whole 52 universe. I remember when they crisesed all the variant universes together that someone decided that different dimensions were not affected by Crisis or Zero Hour, so Qward (the anti-matter dimension) and Mxyzptlk's home (was it still the 5th dimension?) still existed apart from Earth Prime.
I dunno... I prefer that The Phantom Stranger were either The Wandering Jew or a half-fallen angel.
I'm still really enjoying Justice League, unfortunately I'm behind in it. Haven't read Darkseid War: Lex Luthor yet, then I gotta read the latest issue of the main book. *sigh* There's never enough time. :(
Previous JL(Meltzer/McDuffie) started strong,but then turned into a preview book.This one-is a mixed bag.Some good stories(Throne of Atlantis,Forever Heroes) and some mediocre ones(Villains journey).And Geoff Johns cant write Wonder Woman to save his life,I have to say.
I'm not all that well versed on Wonder Woman, so I can't judge her in the book, but I will she was decent in the Justice League cartoon.
I could definitely talk about Meltzer and McDuffie's runs. Meltzer's I didn't really mind, except I thought the pace was a bit too decompressed and I was a bit turned off by the JSA crossover (fun fact, I never actually picked up the JSA issues of that crossover, so I only half of that storyline), though I appreciated the different cast, with characters like Red Arrow, Vixen and Geoforce.
McDuffie's run, on the other hand, I, for the most part, loved....when it actually felt like he was allowed to write it. It's fairly well documented that DC editorial screwed his book over royally, and he actually got fired from the book over it because he discussed it at length with fans on the message board. Initially he did a really fun Injustice League/Gang story with Lex Luthor in charge that really harkaned back to the JLU cartoon, which he wrote heavily for. Then the conclusion got a little rushed, and we started to get tie-ins, fill-ins, and tie-ins that were also fill-ins, so I started to clue in that something wasn't right. That being said, the work he did to fix the murky continuity involving the 2nd Doctor Light, Kimiyo Hoshi? Aces. :thumbup: He was even one of the few writers to write her in character with her original portrayal from Crisis on Infinite Earths (that is to say, a less docile, more irritable woman) This got a lampshade in the book to boot.
Well,its an old complaint,but Geoff Johns has trouble writing female characters.In this incarnation whenever Wonder Woman says something it about her plans to kill somebody.Seriously,check it,I can wait.And the whole Superman/Wonder Woman pairing...
Actually Injustice gang story from Mcduffie's run is one of my personal favorites,but after that its Salvation Run,Final Crisis-event after event.Meltzers Tornado Path and Lighting Saga are generally good stories.Basically Tornado Path is about JLA running a gauntlet of their old enemies.And it works pretty well.Lightning Saga restores the original LoSH.
-About the JSA series from that time-it was good while Geoff Johns was writing it,but when Bill Willingham took over it just became a mess.NOBODY liked Magog as much as Bill.
And since we recently discussed him,its worth noting James Robins took over after McDuffie.Other then adding Starman and Congorilla,he doesnt really do anything notable.It was just mediocre IMO.
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11222627_1163790520317735_4279445218500889598_n.jpg?oh=f46efd309eb36a42deca77d31de66bd9&oe=571D7018)
Grayson #17
Wildcats?Are those The Wildcats?
Hey, it sounds like Neal Adams is bringing Superman back.
Yes, back from the brink...
(http://i2.wp.com/www.comix4free.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/322757._SX640_QL80_TTD_.jpg?resize=640%2C984)
Jean Paul Valley Lives!-in a series I really hated.Cant have everything,I guess.I assume Knightfall didn't happen in this continuity?
And the 90s are DEFINITELY back.
Didn't there used to be more posts in this thread after the Superman Neal Adams post?
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 13, 2016, 07:01:47 PM
And the 90s are DEFINITELY back.
From what I have seen of BAR eternal (well,glanced in 2 issues) its very 90's.In a sort of Youngbloods-are-holding-an-audition way.
Neal Addams is writing Coming of Supermen IIRC?
I'm pretty sure this Neal Adams Superman comic is the one I mentioned hearing about from him back he did signings at my local book store this past year. I know he mentioned that it had to do with the New Gods.
www.dccomics.com/comics/superman-the-coming-of-the-supermen-2015/superman-the-coming-of-the-supermen-1 (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/superman-the-coming-of-the-supermen-2015/superman-the-coming-of-the-supermen-1)
Pretty sure thats Coming of Supermen.Multiple Supermen unite against Darkseid,or something like that.Still,sounds interesting.
www.comicsbeat.com/dc-announces-free-comic-book-day-offerings/ (http://www.comicsbeat.com/dc-announces-free-comic-book-day-offerings/)
A comic targeted at kids and Suicide Squad just in time for the movie?Thats actually pretty clever.
www.newsarama.com/27600-dc-comics-april-2016-solicitations.html (http://www.newsarama.com/27600-dc-comics-april-2016-solicitations.html)
Scott Lobdell takes over as writer of Titans Hunt.Thats just great...just great...
Bloodlines.Im serious,Bloodline by J.T Krul.That can only end in good...Thou if Hitman is canon(as seen in Batman and Section Eight) didnt Bloodlines happen in this universe then?Thou,its a good chance to bring Tommy back.I hope DC catches up on that.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/22/dc-comics-to-relaunch-everything-with-1s-again-this-summer-with-a-filmtv-bent/
Maybe we should call this topic DC Comics Reboot Reboot. They are trying to be like Marvel and adjust their books to the movies and TV shows for guarantee sales.
Quote from: JeyNyce on January 22, 2016, 07:37:36 PM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/22/dc-comics-to-relaunch-everything-with-1s-again-this-summer-with-a-filmtv-bent/
Maybe we should call this topic DC Comics Reboot Reboot. They are trying to be like Marvel and adjust their books to the movies and TV shows for guarantee sales.
Ha, I'm sure that will work out great for them. :P It isn't like that's the same, shrinking market they'er already fighting over or anything...
Also Scott Snyder is leaving after Batman #52.There goes one book that was actually selling.
Like Rob Liefeld said-they just dont have the talent for something like this.Editorial talent in their case.
Quote from: Spade on January 23, 2016, 07:11:44 AM
Also Scott Snyder is leaving after Batman #52.There goes one book that was actually selling.
Sort of. Sure, he's leaving
Batman, but he's still actually writing Batman via Detective Comics. So I'm not really sure you can say he's leaving Batman when he's still writing the same one character. Heck, his Detective Comics might even be a straight continuation of his
Batman run for all we know.
Quote from: Spade on January 23, 2016, 07:11:44 AM
Also Scott Snyder is leaving after Batman #52.There goes one book that was actually selling.
Like Rob Liefeld said-they just dont have the talent for something like this.Editorial talent in their case.
One of the very few times I agree with Liefeld on something.
You know what I hate most about DC restarting all their comics in general? I was looking forward to buying Action Comics #1000 one day when I was a kid. So much for that happening. And even if DC decides to number the issue that would be #1000 if they hadn't done reboots, I'll likely not purchase it. The only properly renumbered comics I ever bought were issues of Captain America and Wonder Woman, and that was only because I was subscribing to both comics through a shop at the time.
So a while back, there were rumors that DC was going to do another reboot. Again. The good news is that DC isn't doing another reboot, at least in terms of the main DC Universe; they're doing a relaunch, but it isn't really the same thing. The weird news is just what DC is rebooting:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/28/jim-lee-revamps-scooby-doo-for-dc-mad-max-designer-on-wacky-races-amanda-conner-on-the-flintstones-comics/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/01/28/jim-lee-revamps-scooby-doo-for-dc-mad-max-designer-on-wacky-races-amanda-conner-on-the-flintstones-comics/)
You read that right. Scooby Doo, Flintstones, and Wacky Races are all getting revamps of one sort or another. Flintstones looks like it'll be the closest to its' source material, but Scooby Doo and especially Wacky Races are both getting post-apocalyptic makeovers. On top of that, they're also taking a League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen Approach with Hanna Barbara's action/adventure cartoons such as Johnny Quest, Space Ghost, and many more, merging them into one universe and giving them one big book; Future Quest. That's the one I'll be most interested in personally. I can't really see myself checking out the others other than to make sure they actually exist.
DC's pretty darn confident that these new books will easily hit the Top Sellers list, but I'm not so sure. DC publishes a regular old-fashioned Scooby Doo comic already, and you don't really see that at the top of the charts. Again, I'm still kind of looking forward to Future Quest, but I'm not so sure about everything else.
Main DC universe will just be renumbered IIRC.
Jim Lee and Keith Giffen are working on Scooby Doo?Thats interesting.Also,its nice somebody is doing something for the kids.THINK OF THE KIDS! :-)
Those meddling kids!
I'm looking forward to the new Scooby Doo book. It's a cross between Scooby Doo and The Walking Dead
http://www.polygon.com/comics/2016/1/28/10858874/scooby-apocalypse-dc-comics-hanna-barbera
DC Comics Rebirth: Rumoured Cancelled Comics Include Starfire, Midnighter And Black Canary
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/dc-comics-rebirth-rumoured-cancelled-comics-include-starfire-midnighter-and-black-canary/
Yes,cancel those fans and critics liked!At this point Im sure DC is trying to commit suicide.
-Then again its Rich Johnson-so its probably isnt entirely true.Writer X,come on...
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/dc-comics-rebirth-a-new-justice-society-of-america-ongoing-title-to-launch/
According to Bleeding Cool, DC's bringing back the Justice Society back. And no, it has nothing to do with Earth 2; this will apparently be a bonafide main Earth 'Fought in WWII' JSA. Mind you, it might just be BS as there's no official evidence yet, but a part of me is wishing SOOOOOOOOO hard that this is true. The JSA is one of my favorite Superteams of all time, and I'd be stoked to see them get another book in the main DCU.
Also, new Doom Patrol: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/gerard-way-and-becky-cloonans-doom-patrol-being-revived/
I might actually read a 40s or 50s era JSA book free of the toxic main continuity of the NDCU. I could totally get behind that.
Quote from: BentonGrey on February 03, 2016, 01:51:50 AM
I might actually read a 40s or 50s era JSA book free of the toxic main continuity of the NDCU. I could totally get behind that.
Uh, about that:
QuoteBut now, not only will this active team of superheroes be revealed, along with an explanation as to why no one remembers them, but they will be brought forward, young, to the present days, fishes out of water, fighting alongside the Justice League of America.
So, they still fought in WWII, but they'll be transported to the present day from the 40's. Which, considering that the previous JSA series took place day in the present day and was still awesome, I don't have much of a problem with. What I
might have a problem with is that this implies that they'll be mainly using the 40's&50's JSA'ers as opposed to the ones from the 90's&00's series (which if you haven't read yet Benton, you owe it to yourself to do so; trust me on this,), but if it goes on long enough, maybe they'll bring in the 90's&00's crew later on. A man can dream...
The one thing I hated most about the DC reboot was them wiping out the original JSA and replacing it with all new characters with the same names and nothing else. Especially since Jay Garrick is my favorite Flash and Alan Scott my favorite Green Lantern.
Well, there goes my interest.
Kk, I've read a bit of those stories, and I've certainly enjoyed them. They're in an era I don't much care for, though. They are on my list, nonetheless.
Agree with KK here,JSA by James Robinson(he was still good back then) and Geoff Johns is one of DCs greatest series ever.Continuing Justice Society series was also pretty good until Johns left.
Quote from: kkhohoho on February 03, 2016, 01:21:21 AM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/dc-comics-rebirth-a-new-justice-society-of-america-ongoing-title-to-launch/
According to Bleeding Cool, DC's bringing back the Justice Society back. And no, it has nothing to do with Earth 2; this will apparently be a bonafide main Earth 'Fought in WWII' JSA. Mind you, it might just be BS as there's no official evidence yet, but a part of me is wishing SOOOOOOOOO hard that this is true. The JSA is one of my favorite Superteams of all time, and I'd be stoked to see them get another book in the main DCU.
Also, new Doom Patrol: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/gerard-way-and-becky-cloonans-doom-patrol-being-revived/
That doesn't look like the Doom Patrol I grew up with. It doesn't look like John Byrne's, either.
Quote from: daglob on February 03, 2016, 11:50:20 PM
Quote from: kkhohoho on February 03, 2016, 01:21:21 AM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/dc-comics-rebirth-a-new-justice-society-of-america-ongoing-title-to-launch/
According to Bleeding Cool, DC's bringing back the Justice Society back. And no, it has nothing to do with Earth 2; this will apparently be a bonafide main Earth 'Fought in WWII' JSA. Mind you, it might just be BS as there's no official evidence yet, but a part of me is wishing SOOOOOOOOO hard that this is true. The JSA is one of my favorite Superteams of all time, and I'd be stoked to see them get another book in the main DCU.
Also, new Doom Patrol: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/gerard-way-and-becky-cloonans-doom-patrol-being-revived/
That doesn't look like the Doom Patrol I grew up with. It doesn't looke like John Byrne's, either.
Ugh....where's Rita, the Chief? Is that Robotman on the far left and is that supposed to be Negative Man on the far right? Who are the other two characters (they don't look like Doom Patrol freak material to me)? We've already seen the Doom Patrol in Justice League and Cliff/Robotman in JLU...why throw another curve ball at the fans of the team?
Is it just me, or is there something about that image that reeks of hipsters? I can't put my finger on it...
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on February 16, 2016, 01:45:34 AM
Quote from: daglob on February 03, 2016, 11:50:20 PM
Quote from: kkhohoho on February 03, 2016, 01:21:21 AM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/dc-comics-rebirth-a-new-justice-society-of-america-ongoing-title-to-launch/
According to Bleeding Cool, DC's bringing back the Justice Society back. And no, it has nothing to do with Earth 2; this will apparently be a bonafide main Earth 'Fought in WWII' JSA. Mind you, it might just be BS as there's no official evidence yet, but a part of me is wishing SOOOOOOOOO hard that this is true. The JSA is one of my favorite Superteams of all time, and I'd be stoked to see them get another book in the main DCU.
Also, new Doom Patrol: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/02/gerard-way-and-becky-cloonans-doom-patrol-being-revived/
That doesn't look like the Doom Patrol I grew up with. It doesn't looke like John Byrne's, either.
Ugh....where's Rita, the Chief? Is that Robotman on the far left and is that supposed to be Negative Man on the far right? Who are the other two characters (they don't look like Doom Patrol freak material to me)? We've already seen the Doom Patrol in Justice League and Cliff/Robotman in JLU...why throw another curve ball at the fans of the team?
Rita wasn't in the Morrison!Patrol, so as much as I hate to say it, she doesn't actually need to be there. (Even though she should be.) Speaking of which, the girl in the back might be Crazy Jane, though she could also be Rita with a new coat of paint. The guy in the back left could be Mento, judging by the purple glasses. (Purple was a main color for one of his costumes. ) As for the Chief, just because he isn't on the cover doesn't mean he's not in the book. He doesn't actually go out in combat and the like, so I guess the cover artist felt that he didn't need to be on there because of that.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-announces-full-rebirth-line-twice-monthly-books-lowered-price-point (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-announces-full-rebirth-line-twice-monthly-books-lowered-price-point)
So basically-Mostly everything will be renumbered as #1 except Action and Detective comics which will go back to original numbering,prices are back at 2.99(so they say).Midnighter and Starfire are canceled.Blue Beetle is back,that's one good news.
Secret Six appears to be cancelled, which I'm sad about, but I was fully expecting. The final issue seems to be the May one.
Johns is leaving Justice League after Darkseid War. Loved his run, it was great, curious who's taking over. There's going to be a new Justice League book and a new JLA, so we'll have to wait and see if it's still Hitch on JLA (who's not drawing it anymore, since he couldn't get it out on time), or someone else.
Johns is doing the DC Rebirth one shot, with art by Van Sciver and Ivan Reis. Dan Didio says the book contains the single most controversial scene in his entire time on DC comics (which is probably saying something). I'm probably going to be picking that one-shot up due to the creative team.
Jim Lee is going to be one of the rotating artists on the new Suicide Squad book, no doubt getting a push due to the movie. I'm curious to see who the writer will be because I might be willing to pick it up based on that.
Depending on the creative teams for the books, I might be picking up no DC titles going forward, which I'm sure is the exact opposite of what DC wants.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 25, 2016, 03:21:54 AM
Depending on the creative teams for the books, I might be picking up no DC titles going forward, which I'm sure is the exact opposite of what DC wants.
If they're actually putting out that rumored JSA book, I might pick that up, (since the JSA is one of my favorite Superteams and all,) but other than that, I'd be picking up just as many DC titles as I currently do: 0. ;)
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/26/green-lantern-vs-green-lantern-for-green-lantern-50/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/02/26/green-lantern-vs-green-lantern-for-green-lantern-50/)
Another familiar face shows up after Convergence.Its Parallax.
dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/140358104191/batgirl-49-changes-everything (http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/140358104191/batgirl-49-changes-everything)
So the Killing Joke got retconed?I doubt that will stick...
I'm surprise nobody mention this. This is kinda big news:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeclvTBvADI
Skip the first 30 mins and then the show starts
(https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfl1/v/t1.0-9/12919776_10154068500962855_2545763008586363779_n.jpg?oh=51b0bb85cadc295515b1b7d107020b1e&oe=577C8832)
Just to mention this teaser.
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134884-wondercon-dc-reveals-details-of-rebirth-afterbirth-at-anticipated-press-conference.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134884-wondercon-dc-reveals-details-of-rebirth-afterbirth-at-anticipated-press-conference.html)
Outhouse has a play-by-play.
-All Star Batman by Scott Snyder and JR Jr.
-Dan Jurgens on Action comics
-Greg Rucka back writing Wonder Woman
-Dan Abnett on Titans
-Christopher Priest on Deathstroke(that's really interesting)
-Blue Beetle by Keith Giffen
I was wrong before,but this looks promising. :cool:
On the other hand:
-no sign of Wildstorm
-Scott Lobdell
Already saw the new batsuit in issue 50 and I like it. Much fewer lines than the new 52 suit, belt and symbol will take some time getting use to, but it's something new, they could have just gone with plain black symbol and yellow belt, I like that they went with something different. Superman and Wonder Woman are more or less their movie costumes and I think they both look great. Ideally supes would have yellow belt and full red boots, but this looks good as well IMO.
That's a sweet teaser but I've gotta say it:
I hate Damien and Superboy's new costumes. Damien's looks way too busy (at least in this image) and Superboy looks like he's at least 10 years younger than he was before.
Also, Geoff Johns and Jason Fabok have confirmed that we, the audience, will learn the Joker's real name in Justice League #50.
I've been loving Darkseid War (when in the world is the next issue coming out? It feels like it's been forever) but I'm iffy on this. I'm not sure we need to know the Joker's name and if it's got plot significance or reveals something different about the character it risks mucking around with the character's history.
Now, on the topic of the Joker's history:
Post-Crisis, but Pre-Flashpoint, there was a sequence in the second Robin miniseries, Robin II: Joker's Wild, where Joker's goons break Joker out of Arkham by disguising one of them as his mother and visiting him. The staff accepts "her" as The Joker's mother, which always made me think "Does that mean they have the Joker's name and next of kin on record?" We never find out, and that's story's probably non canon in New 52.
Here's some canonical factoids I gleaned from the DC wiki:
-According to Scott Snyder's run: "Even before becoming the Joker, his DNA was not available on any records." Similar to the lack of DNA or fingerprints on file in The Dark Knight
-One of his multiple choice origins (as told in a Villains month Joker point-one issue) was that he had an abusive relative who bleached his face (again, similar to one in the Dark Knight)
-Scott Snyder's Batman arc "Endgame" apparently had a number of possible details about the Joker's origin. As I've not read that story line yet but plan to in the near future, I'm going to absolve from reading any spoilers on it. I did however have one spoiled when it came out, which was an especially bizarre origin I'm pretty sure I hate.
Actually,this Superboy is Jon Kent,Pre-Flashpoint Superman's son(If I got everything right).So he is 10 years younger.
-About Jokers identity,this is kinda similar to Phantom Stranger situation.It would be better if they didnt tell us.There needs to be some mystery.
re: Superboy: oh ok, didn't know that. Cool.
re: Joker: I think I agree with you. To give context: I saw The 1989 Tim Burton as a kid, where Joker was gangster Jack Napier and killed Batman's parents, and I didn't know any better. I didn't know the comics, so I didn't know that Burton et all added that part. So when I saw Batman TAS I was like "Why does Batman not hate the Joker? Didn't he kill his parents?" (muddling the issue is that TAS had an easter egg reference to the name "Jack Napier" as Joker, in, iirc, the episode "Joker's Wild"). So of course later on I learned about The Killing Joke, and the older stories that influenced it, and later read TKJ (which I still love, despite the fridging of Barbara) and that was my understanding of Joker.
There's a number of ways you can look at it. Since I loved Heath Ledger's take on Joker in The Dark Knight, where he was, simply put, a terrorist, and an anarchist (which he calls himself), I think the Joker is scarier and more unpredictable when you don't know where he comes from.
Now once again, Post-Crisis but Pre-Flashpoint, there's a fill in issue of the Morrison/Mark Waid era JLA where Martian Manhunter and Spectre look inside the mind of the Joker and MM is shocked to see the Joker visualized as a happy, well-mannered Jimmy Stewart style father figure in a comfy armchair by a fireplace. Impossible! How could have the Joker have a good, pure man buried deep inside? Because he's just a man, a human being, but one who went crazy like most of Batman's villains. So while I like being have a vague backstory, the one thing I think should be rock solid is he's a normal human being, not something supernatural.
IIRC Batman TAS also had a minor case of multiple past with Joker.In one episode he has a grudge with a comedy club because hes a failed comedian,but in Mask of Phantasm he was a hitman for the mafia.
There was actually a lot of stuff I missed in BTAS as a kid,like an episode that (sorta) adapted Dark Knight Returns.
Going a bit off topic here...
I can imagine The Joker giving a list of "relatives" as a contingency plan to get him out of jail. At least, I can imagine an earlier incarnation of The Joker doing that.
"Why, yes, my real name is Ormond Sacker, my mother's name is Egatherine, my father Hephaestus."
Then there was the story where Batman met The Joker's brother, a man named Repain, or something like that.
But, no, we don't need to know The Joker's real name. But it won't matter: next reboot it will change.
Although... the only thing that will really make me mad is if his last name is Wayne...
Joker: "I am your father."
Batman: "NNnnnooooooooo..."
They already did that 2-3 times,so it wouldnt suprise me if they repeat the same twist.
Iirc, there was a comic with the Joker's nephew in it, and he almost called Joker by his real name, only to be interrupted. The first letter, which is all he got to say, was a J.
Quote from: GhostMachine on March 28, 2016, 08:33:32 PM
Iirc, there was a comic with the Joker's nephew in it, and he almost called Joker by his real name, only to be interrupted. The first letter, which is all he got to say, was a J.
So, the Joker's real name is Joker? ;)
Quote from: kkhohoho on March 28, 2016, 10:45:22 PM
Quote from: GhostMachine on March 28, 2016, 08:33:32 PM
Iirc, there was a comic with the Joker's nephew in it, and he almost called Joker by his real name, only to be interrupted. The first letter, which is all he got to say, was a J.
So, the Joker's real name is Joker? ;)
It's actually "Joseph Curr".
I thought it was Joe Kerr...
Quote from: daglob on March 28, 2016, 11:16:05 PM
I thought it was Joe Kerr...
Wait, really? Oh my, I was only joking :blink:
So was he...
In the Gotham tv show it was Jerome. Well, they weren't clear on whether he was the "real" Joker, but he certainly acted like him.
Doesnt Grant Morrison explain it as Joker having some weird syndrome,where he doesnt have a constant personality like the rest of us?So he has to reinvent himself from scratch every so often.One day he pulls harmless pranks,one day he blows up buildings.
Which would mean that "Going sane" probably happened a few times...
Point being,sometimes he remembers it one way,sometimes the other.
So Tony Daniel is the writer for the relaunched Justice League. Meh. Tell me what the story's about, than maybe I'll be interested.
DC has said they're telling the creative team on JLA just yet. I'm looking forward to finding out.
June's issues of Justice League, however...
Noticed in the solicits that issue #51 of Justice League, showing the aftermath of Darkseid War, is written by Dan Jurgens. I'm on board with that. #52 is a flashback story by Dan Abnett leading into Titans: Rebirth, showing Batman and Robin fighting alongside the Justice League in Year One of the New #52 Justice League. That sounds awesome! I'm definitely picking both of those up. Both issues will be drawn by Paul Peletier, who was great on the Abnett and Lanning Guardians of the Galaxy books.
Oh, a little late to mention, but did everybody get their free Jeph Loeb/Ed McGuinness Superman/Batman #1 last week? I got mine both print and digital. Sorry I should have mentioned here last week but I didn't think to.
Batman: The Killing Joke is getting a new printing in June. Superman: Funeral for A Friend, Reign of the Supermen, Return of Superman, and Superman: Doomsday (a miniseries that came out after Death of Superman) are all getting new printings in June. prior to that, there was a trade that came out recently called "Superman and the Justice League of America" reprinting the early 90's Dan Jurgen's Justice League just prior to the Death of Superman, which they promote in the solicit text. I'm probably going to get that. I don't have the Death of Superman trade, but I do have a volume of Funeral For A Friend already that I got on the cheap a few years ago (back when it was out of print and expensive as sin. I think I got mine for 5 or 10 bucks). Haven't read it though, really want to sometime. I wouldn't mind that other trades, I've read a few of the 90's Superman comics pretty early when I got into comics and I liked them.
In addition to Vol. 4 of the John Ostrander Suicide Squad (which I've pre-ordered, alone with Vol.3, during a Amazon book sale), DC is reprinting a hardcover of the Silver Age Suicide Squad, featuring Rick Flagg Sr.
Surprisingly no $1 reprints that month. I was kinda expecting a Suicide Squad #1.
Is Hitch-es Justice League the main JL title after Rebirth?
It seems that Simon Baz and Jessica Cruz are now the main GLs.As you could expect,some fans dont like that.
And DC has been critiqued for the lack of diversity on their creative staff.
Feels like I heard all those before...Like just a few months ago...Maybe it was a different company or something.
JLA might be the flagship book, but they haven't announced who's doing it and guaran-flipping-tee it ain't going to be Hitch.
Hitch can't get a monthly out to save his life and DC's doing twice monthly, albeit with two sets of artists but still.
Hitch's JLA got so delayed they did a fill in issue right in the middle of his story that was just pretty much an issue of Martian Manhunter with JLA on the cover. I distinctly remember the second issue was late, it was one of the reasons I didn't bother buying the rest until Boxing Day sale. Now the issues are drawn by Neil Edwards (who worked on Jeff Parker's Thunderbolts/Dark Avengers after Kev Walker walked on out) and he's got the Hitch aesthetic, but nowhere near the talent last time I checked. Not to mention that Hitch's JLA seemed from the start to be in some kind of pseudo-continuity of its own, using the New 52 roster of Justice League but leaving out important additions like Lex Luthor and Jessica Crux, while Cyborg's in the wrong costume and characters like Supes, Bats and Wonder Woman are even less synced with their at the time status quos than they are in Darkseid war.
Speaking of DC Rebirth titles, (and Suicide Squad in my earlier post), I'm genuinely disappointed in the Suicide Squad announcement. When they announced that Jim Lee was going to be one of the rotating artists, indicating a big push to coincide with the movie I was genuinely hoping Geoff Johns himself was going to write it himself, but no it's just Rob Williams, with a movie-style roster. Pass. Meanwhile no more Secret Six by Simone grumble grumble.
I assumed his JLA happens at the start of N52,or its early years.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-rebirth-arrives-in-june-2016-solicitations-2016 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-rebirth-arrives-in-june-2016-solicitations-2016)
Here are the solicitations.Hitch has JLA #12 and JLA annual.Hes still around,Im afraid.I just figured to wait for a collection or two,anyway.Maybe.
And J.T Krul is really writing Bloodlines?I was convinced that was a joke.And ofc,no Tommy Monaghan in sight.Kinda defeats the whole purpose of Bloodlines.(but then again Section 8 also had its own continuity)
Teen Titans Earth One vol2.
More Demon by Garth Ennis.
Nice...
http://www.newsarama.com/28744-doom-patrol-leads-new-dc-imprint-by-gerard-way.html (http://www.newsarama.com/28744-doom-patrol-leads-new-dc-imprint-by-gerard-way.html)
DC is getting a new imprint(Young Animal...yes,really),headed by Gerard Way.Series being:
-Doom Patrol
-Shade,the changing girl(yes,girl)
-CAVE CARSON HAS A CYBERNETIC EYE
-Mother Panic
Its some borderline between DC and Vertigo,I guess.
Behold, Superman's new costume:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/supermans-rebirth-costume-concept-art-revealed (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/supermans-rebirth-costume-concept-art-revealed)
I quite like it. It strikes a good balance between classic and modern. I think it's them getting rid of the high collar that really makes the whole thing come together. That combined with the classic S Shield just makes him look like classic Superman to me.
Ehh, it has most of the problems of the New 52 one, and now they've gotten rid of the red boots! That makes the design even less balanced.
I like the look from the waist up, basically. No more stupid, busy armour lines or high collar, better S-shield, and spit-curl back in place--these are all good things. The stupid angled cuffs are still there at the wrists, and there's too much blue without the red boots and trunks. The red belt helps break it up a little, but not enough.
Pretty much.
I feel like Tomasi's design was much better. Mainly because of the red boots and the yellow belt.
Wonder Woman Earth One...that was...unique.Definitively my least-favourite Earth One novel.I gotta a feeling saying anything else could ignite an argument so...
Rebirth is an attempt at bringing the old continuity back,yet no sign of Justice Society.Thats disappointing.
Quote from: Spade on April 12, 2016, 05:11:03 PM
Rebirth is an attempt at bringing the old continuity back,yet no sign of Justice Society.Thats disappointing.
Don't count 'em out just yet: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/04/12/bleeding-cool-sees-the-back-of-dc-comics-rebirth-and-the-return-of-the-jsa/
Quote from: kkhohoho on April 13, 2016, 02:48:33 PM
Quote from: Spade on April 12, 2016, 05:11:03 PM
Rebirth is an attempt at bringing the old continuity back,yet no sign of Justice Society.Thats disappointing.
Don't count 'em out just yet: http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/04/12/bleeding-cool-sees-the-back-of-dc-comics-rebirth-and-the-return-of-the-jsa/
I missed that
Awesome :thumbup:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-departure?utm_campaign=dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-d&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-departure?utm_campaign=dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-d&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner)
As part of their restructuring,DC fires Vertigo editor Shelly Bond,from now on Vertigo will report directly to Dan DiDio and Jim Lee.Because we know what great job they are doing. :banghead:
Quote from: Spade on April 21, 2016, 05:40:04 AM
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-departure?utm_campaign=dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-d&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-departure?utm_campaign=dc-comics-restructuring-vertigo-imprint-announces-shelly-bonds-d&utm_medium=internal_links&utm_source=breaking_banner)
As part of their restructuring,DC fires Vertigo editor Shelly Bond,from now on Vertigo will report directly to Dan DiDio and Jim Lee.Because we know what great job they are doing. :banghead:
Sadly, I feel like Vertigo's days are numbered at this point. For whatever reasons (corporate mismanagement and ungenerous contract stipulations I've heard), most of the books that would have been Vertigo books a decade ago have instead all ended up at Image.
Doom Patrol? I'm kind of scared of what they might be doing with them. Why do they need to pay tribute to Grant Morrison? Why pay tribute to anybody, besides the men who created them in the first place?
Dana
Quote from: cmdrkoenig67 on April 21, 2016, 03:04:31 PM
Doom Patrol? I'm kind of scared of what they might be doing with them. Why do they need to pay tribute to Grant Morrison? Why pay tribute to anybody, besides the men who created them in the first place?
Dana
Because to most people these days, Grant Morrison
is the Doom Patrol. That's the one most people have actually read, for better or worse.
Hes their true father,provider of the definitive take on the characters,like Alan Moore to Swamp Thing,Claremont to X-men,Garth Ennis to Punisher,Frank Miller to Daredevil,and so on.
Thou,Grant himself started going downhill lately...
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html)
It looks like the restructuring opened some unpleasant question about some other editors.How will DC get out of this one?
Quote from: Spade on April 21, 2016, 03:52:52 PM
Hes their true father,provider of the definitive take on the characters,like Alan Moore to Swamp Thing,Claremont to X-men,Garth Ennis to Punisher,Frank Miller to Daredevil,and so on.
Thou,Grant himself started going downhill lately...
I'll take Arnold Drake and Bruno Premani any day...
Ofc,it can be a subjective thing. :)
With its most famous properties moving to regular DC or Young Animal,there isnt really much left of Vertigo.And the creators involved are really not happy with the whole development.
Idk...great job?
Quote from: Spade on April 21, 2016, 06:16:44 PM
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html)
It looks like the restructuring opened some unpleasant question about some other editors.How will DC get out of this one?
I'm thinking some sort of 'death with honour' situation at this point, like a disgraced Roman senator, or seppuku.
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135165-dan-slott-reprimanded-for-reckless-tweeting-in-lame-attempt-to-discredit-berganza-reports.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135165-dan-slott-reprimanded-for-reckless-tweeting-in-lame-attempt-to-discredit-berganza-reports.html)
Things escalate as Dan Slott jumps in.2 great answers to him:
Tom Brevoort: Tweet less,write more.
Fabian Nicieza: Tweet less,period.
DC still remains silent.
Quote from: Talavar on April 22, 2016, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: Spade on April 21, 2016, 06:16:44 PM
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html)
It looks like the restructuring opened some unpleasant question about some other editors.How will DC get out of this one?
I'm thinking some sort of 'death with honour' situation at this point, like a disgraced Roman senator, or seppuku.
We should be so lucky.
Quote from: daglob on April 24, 2016, 05:34:35 AM
Quote from: Talavar on April 22, 2016, 02:28:42 PM
Quote from: Spade on April 21, 2016, 06:16:44 PM
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135141-dc-restructures-vertigo-fires-shelly-bond-provokes-naming-of-open-secret-sexual-harasser-in-upper-management.html)
It looks like the restructuring opened some unpleasant question about some other editors.How will DC get out of this one?
I'm thinking some sort of 'death with honour' situation at this point, like a disgraced Roman senator, or seppuku.
We should be so lucky.
Now, granted that my comic reading has dropped off in the past couple of years for a variety of reasons, but I realized recently that the only DC or Vertigo book I read any more is Astro City.
Its more about company policy this time.Namely,editor Eddie Berganza is a suspected sexual harasser(for years now),and DC refuses to comment on it.That would be it,in a nutshell.Ofc,it sent waves thru the internet and news-sites.
We will see how the situation develops.
So Midnighter is over.It felt a bit rushed.Still cant believe that they went 2 whole series without him encountering Batman.Come on people,focus...
There is an editorial by Geoff Johns in the back.Rebirth is not a reboot,we hope to welcome returning readers and stuff like that.
Quote from: daglob on April 21, 2016, 08:13:53 PM
Quote from: Spade on April 21, 2016, 03:52:52 PM
Hes their true father,provider of the definitive take on the characters,like Alan Moore to Swamp Thing,Claremont to X-men,Garth Ennis to Punisher,Frank Miller to Daredevil,and so on.
Thou,Grant himself started going downhill lately...
I'll take Arnold Drake and Bruno Premani any day...
Ditto, Globby.
Dana
http://www.newsarama.com/29144-rebirth-green-arrow-writer-ollie-is-a-social-justice-warrior.html (http://www.newsarama.com/29144-rebirth-green-arrow-writer-ollie-is-a-social-justice-warrior.html)
After Rebirth,Green Arrow returns to fighting for social justice.As Social Justice Warrior.
I honestly expected them to go for more synergy with the TV show.Not that synergy actually works,but...
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-entertainment-addresses-harassment-issues-plans-to-review-and-expand-policies (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/dc-entertainment-addresses-harassment-issues-plans-to-review-and-expand-policies)
And it only took three weeks...
took 3 weeks and they're barely doing anything. I've basically been following this story off and on from before he was officially named, and the fact that this is all they're doing is insulting. I have friends who are victims of this kind of nonsense, and the fact that Eddie Berganza is still in upper management, much less senior editor in charge of WONDER WOMAN, offends me to no end.
I wasn't really buying DC books anyway, but I definitely will not be buying or reading any now.
Im not sure that boycot would solve anything.But demanding some trasparency from DC is an option.
In other un-related news,Darwyn Cooke died this morning. :(
Oh, I know it won't, but I really can't stomach the idea of spending time and money on a company that's been perfectly content to sweep sexual harassment under the rug for 4 years.
Well,even this minimum wouldnt happen if people havent been asking questions on social media.So,the fans can make some difference.
Which also caused Dan DiDio to shut down his twitter.And Dan Slott to argue with everyone.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/all-star-batman-the-hellblazer-more-arrive-in-dc-comics-august-solicitations (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/all-star-batman-the-hellblazer-more-arrive-in-dc-comics-august-solicitations)
August solicitacions:
Superwoman series?Didnt expect that.
SIXPACK AND DOGWELDER: HARD-TRAVELING HEROZ :D
And some Bob Haney stuff collected.
Its mostly Superman,Batman and Teen Titans titles.And Suicide Squad.No surprises there.
-Anyone read Christopher Priests Ray?Is it similar to Invincible as people claim?
http://screenrant.com/dc-comics-movies-tv-show-rebirth-logo/
Not that the logo is that big a deal... but really? Didn't they like... JUST change it?
(http://comicsalliance.com/files/2012/01/dclogo08.jpg)
Bullet was the best.They should have gone back to that.
Anyhow,the new one is still better then the overlaped D and C.
That new logo is... amateurish. Who designed it? Marissa Mayer?
The previous logo, while not perfect, at least had an interesting concept. Not a huge fan of the bullet, as it screams "late 70s sport team", but I agree that it would have been better than the new one and, for that matter, than the 2005 swirl. (Why did every logo from the late nineties had to have a stupid swirl? and was DC so outdated that they had to copy such a hackneyed pattern?)
(http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/DC-Logos-Timeline.jpg)
To be fair,new logo is pretty similar to the pre-bullet ones.And most of their competition are even lazier with logos.
Thou,the C is a bit clunky.
Looks like details of Rebirth got leaked on reddit.Somebody got Rebirth #1 and took photos.
Spoiler
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135389-dc-rebirth-leak.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135389-dc-rebirth-leak.html)
Wally West narrates the book.JSA is back.There are 3 Jokers.Thats what Batman found out from The Chair.
And the biggest one:
Spoiler
We are being WATCHED.
http://i.imgur.com/nCqFMlW.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/nCqFMlW.jpg)
Yeah,Watchmen are now part of DC universe.Dr Manhattan created the New 52-verse.
:blink: If half of that is correct(otherwise kudos for photoshop skills),its going to be freaking weird. :wacko:
Quote from: Spade on May 21, 2016, 02:17:31 PM
Looks like details of Rebirth got leaked on reddit.Somebody got Rebirth #1 and took photos.
Spoiler
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135389-dc-rebirth-leak.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135389-dc-rebirth-leak.html)
Wally West narrates the book.JSA is back.There are 3 Jokers.Thats what Batman found out from The Chair.
Spoiler
We are being WATCHED.
http://i.imgur.com/nCqFMlW.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/nCqFMlW.jpg)
Yeah,Watchmen are now part of DC universe.Dr Manhattan created the New 52-verse.
...
WHY?!
Spoiler
So, it's going to be DR. Manhattan's hand that always holds the infant universe now?
Quote from: daglob on May 21, 2016, 03:57:47 PM
Spoiler
So, it's going to be DR. Manhattan's hand that always holds the infant universe now?
Or it always was his hand?This is confusing.
The description I saw described it in a very meta way...
Spoiler
Dr. Manhattan is responsible for the current state of the DCU, to parallel that Watchmen is responsible (indirectly) for the current state of DC comics. I don't entirely agree with that assessment myself, but that's how it was put.
Geoff Johns confirmed everything in an interview for USA Today.
Nice that they are trying to win back old readers.Not sure it will work,but nice of them.
On the other hand...
Spoiler
Watchmen
DC Rebirth #1(http://www.spikeybits.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/True-All-Of-It-HanSolo-300x212.jpg)
Spoiler
Wally West is back.Batman finds the badge.And the whole thing ends with somebody dismantling a watch on Mars and talking to somebody named Adrian.Its mostly a preview for upcoming storylines.Johnny Thunder has to reassemble the JSA.Constantine and Swamp Thing have a plan to get rid of the capes.Aquaman got engaged.And so on.
Still a bit better then I expected.
Buying this later today. And I seldom pick up single comics anymore.
I guess Im just that good at sales. :)
Spoiler
Gotham-Somebody from Batmans past as ussual?Another caped hero for DK to fight?
Oh yeah,Wonder Woman has a twin brother named Jason.Thats odd.
Guys, can we at least try not to spoil the book outside of spoiler tags? The bloody thing just came out yesterday.
Spoiler
Wait a minute, is Superman dead again?
Quote from: daglob on May 27, 2016, 01:59:06 AM
Spoiler
Wait a minute, is Superman dead again?
Spoiler
Yes and no. Yes, a Superman is dead. No, a Superman is still alive. Basically, the Nu52 Superman kicked the bucket, while the Post Crisis Superman was brought directly into the Nu52 continuity from the Post Crisis universe. In other words, they swapped out the new Superman for the older one that everyone liked. Comics!
Spoiler
Still like to see a series entitled Superman '55.
Quote from: kkhohoho on May 27, 2016, 02:03:26 AM
Spoiler
Yes and no. Yes, a Superman is dead. No, a Superman is still alive. Basically, the Nu52 Superman kicked the bucket, while the Post Crisis Superman was brought directly into the Nu52 continuity from the Post Crisis universe. In other words, they swapped out the new Superman for the older one that everyone liked. Comics!
Spoiler
Did new52 Supes die to that whole "Use Kryptonite to get your powers back!" plot device?
Okay,so how right is it for DC to use
Spoiler
Watchmen
characters,considering how they treated their creators?
Last year,Outhouse joked that Jim Lee is redrawing
Spoiler
Watchmen and adding a high collar to a naked blue guy.
:rolleyes:
I appreciate that you guys tagged the spoilers.
Spade, not for nothing, but the thing you're talking about in your last post? You blew it earlier in the thread.
Quote from: Spade on May 27, 2016, 05:18:19 AM
Okay,so how right is it for DC to use Spoiler
Watchmen
Last year,Outhouse joked that Jim Lee is redrawing Spoiler
Watchmen and adding a high collar to a naked blue guy.
Spoiler
Linkara's got an in depth answer for that. (http://atopthefourthwall.com/my-thoughts-on-dc-universe-rebirth-1/#more-3701)
tl;dr? "We've got to have money!"
How is it right legally? DC owns the rights. Morally? That's debatable, but DC is a business and businesses are in the business of making money, and Moore's got no kind words for them anyway, so they figure it's worth it.
Creatively? Zero F's given. It's been said time and again that Watchmen is a complete story that said all it needed to say, but DC's obviously not that worried about that, and it's entirely possible that between the editors, the writers, the artists ect. they feel that both with Before Watchmen and this, there are "good stories" to be told. Full disclosure: I've not read BW, and I'm not really in a hurry to, but I've read at least one review and I've seen select scans and such and nothing I've seen justified the project.
And you know what? Years ago when BW came out, I was kind of against the idea, but now I'm not so sure. If Superman and Batman and so many others can have countless different iterations and be bigger than one creator, than whose to say Doc Manhattan can't be? After all, the original plan was just to have them be Captain Atom, Question, ect. It definitely worked out better that they became OCs, but that was decades now, and creator owned titles have their at Image and other publishers that didn't exist back then.
Cynical as it may be, it's not art. It's product.
I should probably mention what I thought of the book itself eh? I quite liked it. It's pretty much "Author's Saving Throw the comic" but I'm fine with that and most of the new developments actually do have me intrigued for future stories.
Spoiler
Also, I really hate to nitpick, but we were told we would learn the Joker's NAME in the comic. We didn't. We learned another gonzo re imagined origin for the Joker that I'm skeptical about. But I'll say this, it's at least better than the stupid "Immortal caveman" origin from Snyder's otherwise really good Batman run
I read JL first, because it comes first (and just for the record, that WW thing was a major reveal in JL, so It's ALSO a spoiler) and while admittedly it was starting to turn into a shonen manga with all the bullcrap plot twists at the end, I liked that too. I'm still loving the direction with Lex Luthor (who IMO was the best part of Johns' run to begin with) and as it stands, I gotta say, I'm genuinely tempted to pick up Action Comics starring Lex Luthor. I'm already picking up JL #51 and #52, and one of them is a pilot for that run. I can't remember which one though, because DC recently announced they were swapping them around, but whatever. Plus I like Dan Jurgens, so there's that. I've actually been tempted to pick up some Superman runs from the last few years anyway.
Sorry about that,forgot to spoiler tag it. :unsure:
Linkara really took the scarab thing to heart.And yes,killing
Spoiler
Pandora
wasnt really necessary.And yes,Infinite Crisis already addressed same problems.
And DCs track record with
Spoiler
absorbing other universes hasn't been the greatest.
I guess Im somewhat optimistic about the whole thing.
New subject title suggestion:
"Re: DC Comics Reboot" Rebirth
Get it?
Anyway, I read it. I like it. I wonder if Alan Moore will react?
He did threathen them with blood magic after the colouring book...
Now that Geoff Johns is leaving for Movie division,this leaves Dan DiDio and Jim Lee in charge.And Bob Harras I guess,but hes pretty much nonexistent.They are the reason Rebirth is happening.
Well. When you get everything so wrong, only place to go is up. Clone Saga, Knightfall, One More Day, list goes on and on. I find that while I hate the changing of the formula, I tend to like the resetting to old values stories. They generally aren't as good as the actual old stories, but in comparison to the progressive drek, it's at least an attempt at quality. I just hope the with John's leaving the other writers can maintain the respect for the old continuity that worked better. Out with the old, in with the new. The new flounders, back with the old. And people buy them for a while, until another upset is needed to catch interest.
Spoiler
I'm not sure how I feel about Moore's angst. I feel like Cap Atom and company could have been used just as well, with the Multiversity stories. But with less controversy. Perhaps Controversy being the main draw. I would have created a new character based on both of them. Captain Manhattan.
I do actually hate the leaks. I would have appreciated the surprise. The leaks were unavoidable.
Those may not be the greatest examples,seeing it took some time for Spiderman titles to recover from those.Its debatable if they still have recovered from OMD,but another topic...
Some may hate me for saying this,but Knightfall wasnt a bad story.Too long,sure,but not that bad in the final score.
Trailing off here,but point being,can we expect something different from the same people?The universe changed,but the editors didn't.
Quote from: Spade on May 27, 2016, 03:51:01 PM
Those may not be the greatest examples,seeing it took some time for Spiderman titles to recover from those.Its debatable if they still have recovered from OMD,but another topic...
Some may hate me for saying this,but Knightfall wasnt a bad story.Too long,sure,but not that bad in the final score.
Trailing off here,but point being,can we expect something different from the same people?The universe changed,but the editors didn't.
Hm...
'Good news; the DC Universe is poised to head in a lighter, more optimistic, and more traditional direction, with many old legacies and relationships being restored! Bad news: The same old writers and editors are still around, and if they haven't added in a lighter tone and those old relationships before, than they won't do it now, because they couldn't care less.'
Yeah; the DCU might be a better place for a year or two, but unless there's a serious change in management, I'm not sure if there will be that much of a difference in the long run. Not to mention, I'm not even sure if the current crop of writers even ''want'' to add in some of that old legacies and relationships, because if they did, you'd think they would have been in there from the start. For example, maybe the reason Green Arrow and Black Canary haven't been together is because the GA and Birds of Prey writers just though that, no, they were never actually a good fit and should never have been together in the first place? (Which is something I kind of actually feel myself, but I digress.) And so on and so forth. And now, they have Mr.Johns getting in their face and cramping their style, forcing them to add in relationships and legacies they may have just never wanted to bother with, and as soon as they get the chance, they may just choose to do whatever the heck they want to again. Of course, I could be completely wrong here, but that's one way to view it.
Question: In the Last Days of Superman storyline that's just ended, is the man who looks like Superman but with a beard and a black bodysuit with a Superman logo on it supposed to be
Spoiler
The post-Crisis, married to Lois Superman
?
Quote from: GhostMachine on May 27, 2016, 07:08:18 PM
Question: In the Last Days of Superman storyline that's just ended, is the man who looks like Superman but with a beard and a black bodysuit with a Superman logo on it supposed to be Spoiler
The post-Crisis, married to Lois Superman
Spoiler
Yeeup.
Its not that easy to point a finger at just one person and blame them for the past 5-6 years.This was really a team effort.
But I would have to agree with Rob Liefeld and say DC's problems are not the writers but editors.
Which reminds me,Dan Abnett signed an exclusive contract with DC.It would be interesting if he does some cosmic storylines.
Quote from: bearded on May 27, 2016, 03:05:34 PM
I do actually hate the leaks. I would have appreciated the surprise. The leaks were unavoidable.
I'm happy to say the only thing I had spoiled was the big ending reveal. I've had so many things spoiled in the last few years (darn near every week with the Game of Thrones and Walking Dead, this season, GAH) that I got wise. I avoided this thread until I read the book cuz I knew y'all were talking about it, and I've had a spoiler blocker app installed on my internet browser since before The Force Awakens came out. Which isn't perfect, but it certainly helps. I encourage anyone who wants to avoid spoilers and can't get caught up in their comics and shows right away to seek it out.
It really would have something if I had no idea about that final reveal (though admittedly I probably would clued in at the beginning with the clocks) but fortunately everything else (especially that Flash bit) was a pleasant surprise so I came out pretty happy.
^ Just read that. I'm mixed on it. He and Lanning were great on cosmic Marvel so I'm a bit sad they're trapped at DC now but if they did some big scale epic DC story that could be cool. I really need to read Titans Hunt some time, cuz it seems interesting and the new angle for the Rebirth Titans book intrigues me.
Spoiler
[edit] so after doing some research, I found out that the guy with the staff who talked to Superman was a guy called Mr. Oz, introduced during John's New 52 Superman run. So I guess he's supposed to be Ozymandias? Crazy.
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/dc_comics/dc-rebirth-has-the-cast-of-watchmen-already-started-appearing-in-a142046 (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/comics/dc_comics/dc-rebirth-has-the-cast-of-watchmen-already-started-appearing-in-a142046)
Actually,there are some interesting theories about that.
Namely,that
Spoiler
Comedian is Joker.Well,one of them.
Eh, not sure how I feel about that one.
Spoiler
Though the prospect of Negan from the Walking Dead as the Joker is pretty effing amusing. ;)
Previous theory
Spoiler
Rorschach one makes sense.But I dont really see Gotham being Nite Owl.
Then again,it would be a pretty obvious choice to pit him against Batman.
Spoiler
To be honest, I'm a little weary of the prospect of spreading the Watchmen cast all over the place. Part of the reason I buy "Mr. Oz" as Ozy is because Johns wrote that run. I'd kinda prefer not to have to check the DC wiki 6 months from now to have to figure out where the heck all these characters have been since now.
Speaking of Batman, Snyder's new Batman book will be about Batman, Two Face, and a desert road trip. They specifically said it's gonna be Batman meets Mad Max: Fury Road. Not sure what to think about that. Not seen the film. Not a huge Two-Face fan but if anyone can revitalize him it's Scott Snyder.
I read Endgame recently. Quite enjoyed it, with a caveat I mentioned in an earlier post and a minor nickpick.
Spoilers for a several years old plot twist that's probably retconned to oblivion at this point.
Spoiler
So according to Scott Snyder, the Joker was/is a centuries old immortal caveman in the style of Vandal Savage who sweats magical healing blood. And you know it's legit because the characters discover photos throughout history with the Joker photobombing the shot. And one of the characters says that if they're doctored it's the best photo manipulation job ever 4 realz u gais. AND we're expected to accept it because the story arc (and at least one of the tie-ins) featured a series of backups featuring mental patients telling a series of increasingly absurd possible origins for the Joker such as him being a folk lore boogeyman, a 50's pulp Sci Fi Robot and a test subject in a super soldier project to mass produce Batman.
I totally respect Snyder. I do. He's the real deal on Batman. But this retcon sucks beans. It really does. It's the laziest, most cliche, "2edgy4u" modern shock value headline grabbing fan fiction nonsense. But I beyond that I dislike for two other reasons:
1. We already have Vandal Savage. And Solomon Grundy.
2. It misses the entire point of the Joker completely. He's supposed to be a really crazy unpowered normal. Batman's perfect nemesis. He's also supposed to be a criminal mastermind, not a Sci Fi monster. Chaos to Batman's order and mysterious as a matter of course. I think the Tim Burton version is more appropriate than this.
This is why I'm fine with the current plot for Joker in DC's books. By default it's gotta be better than this.
The other issue I have is at one point Grayson dresses up as Batman to distract Joker while Bats does something else, and Joker is fooled for it for a bit. Yet In Scott Sydner's earlier Black Mirror arc, back when D1ck was Batman, Joker could tell he wasn't the original Batman right away. I'm not sure if Snyder forgot his own lore, or that doesn't count because it's Pre-New 52 (despite several villains from that arc appearing in Batman Eternal) but it bothered me.
I also read Batman: Eternal and Batman & Robin Eternal (only vol. 1 for the later) and I quite enjoyed both. Art could have been a lot better. Really liked seeing Spoiler and Cass again. When I found out Stephanie Brown entire history got reset I was annoyed, since none of the other Bat family members were starting out, AND it means Didio and co finally let Steph fans get their character back but missed the point of WHY they wanted her back i.e. her history and relationships with the other characters, but in the actual books she's fine. No issue with Cass resetting for a very logical reason: in the New 52 Lady Shiva, who was her mother in the original timeline, is too young to be her mother.
One thing I'm iffy on in B&R Eternal:
Spoiler
Steph seems to dislike Cass, despite them being besties pre-New52, but Harper Row is the one who takes to her. Don't get me wrong, I like Harper Row, but it's supposed to be Steph and Cass. I'm hoping this changes by the end of the book.
Also read the final issue of Secret Six this week. It was fun. I seriously doubt this was originally intended to be the final arc but it had a decent enough wrapup. Few things I wanted to comment on:
Spoiler
I am SHOCKED that DC let Simone included the word "Sh**", UNCENSORED, in a T+ DC book. I'm assuming it's because it was the final issue so, what are they gonna do, double cancel it? PLUS it was out the same week as Rebirth and was low selling so who's gonna notice? I'm kinda hoping Simone discussed that online because I'd love to her comments on it. She did say that in the old run DC never gave her trouble about the content in the book (though they once covered up a bare butt with a speech balloon without her knowing until the book came out, and butchered an Etrigan rhyme by censoring a fairy innocuous term for the male anatomy, but otherwise sure).
The other thing I'm iffy on is I didn't get why Ventriloquist betrayed the team. I honestly can't remember if that came up earlier in the book, but I'm dead certain it's a plot that got cut short by the book's cancellation.
The book was plagued by troubles that went very much unpublished online. The first few issues were heavily delayed (undoubtedly due to the initial artist, Ken Lashley), one issue actual coming out out of sequence All-New X-Men style. But funny thing, immediately after, the art got better, the book got out on time, and it picked up. But I knew it'd get cancelled. I'm just glad I got more S6 for a while. Here's hoping Gail does something else cool for DC or Marvel that I'd want to read.
I think the biggest pull for All Star Batman is that John Romita Junior is doing the artwork.And yes,Batman does look like Big Daddy.On the other hand,another Long Halloween/Hush style story doesn't really sound innovative.
Quote from: Spade on May 28, 2016, 10:55:00 AM
I think the biggest pull for All Star Batman is that John Romita Junior is doing the artwork.And yes,Batman does look like Big Daddy.On the other hand,another Long Halloween/Hush style story doesn't really sound innovative.
Big Daddy from Bioshock? You mean the robot suit? Wait, is Gordon still Batman as well? I always thought robot suit looked like the guy from the anime series Appleseed. It's the rabbit ears.
Jr.'s a mixed bag for me. Some of his Marvel work was seriously rushed (AvX, anyone?), pretty much all his characters look the same (Peter/Logan/Nick Fury/Frank Castle/Daredevil) and he tends to be paired with some seriously washed out colors. Yet I really like his Superman art. I think, like Mark Bagley before him, he's gotten out of a funk that was undeniably brought on by being rushed as hell.
Big Daddy from Kickass. ;)
To be fair,his only-one-face problem isnt as bad as say Steve Dillons.Everyone is Frank,anyone?
Oh ok. Never read it.
Ugh, I know. I'm actually been reading Way's Thunderbolts lately. Steve Dillon's art is so ugly and flat. Why do people like him again? Besides doing Ennis' Punisher?
He also did some work for Judge Dredd.Still,everyone had Franks face.Actually,Frank had Dredds face,because that was first.It was a bit less noticeable because of the helmets,but its still one same face he always draws.Thats also where his collaboration with Garth Ennis started.
Yeah,Romitas Batman look a bit like Big Daddy.More like the movie version thou.But Batman runs a gauntlet of his enemies in 12 issues has been done at least 3 times already,that I can remember(Long Halloween,Hush and Gotham after Midnight).
And the second printing of Rebirth is priced at 5,99.Makes sense...
(https://igcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/p750x750/13108790_1111859692193670_1907996390_n.jpg)
Dont think anyone mentioned it,but: Rebirth Joker.Reminds you of a certain rocker?
Quote from: Spade on May 29, 2016, 05:33:52 PM
(https://igcdn-photos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/p750x750/13108790_1111859692193670_1907996390_n.jpg)
Dont think anyone mentioned it,but: Rebirth Joker.Reminds you of a certain rocker?
Well, it reminds me of Jared Leto's take.(for those who don't know, Leto is the lead singer of one of the best bands around, 30 seconds to mars.)
That's a beautiful picture.
jeff
I was thinking Merilyn Manson.
Looks like Justice League of America got canceled.I guess that means Hitch is fired.
And I might have mentioned it; Dan Abnett signed an exclusive contract with DC.Im interested to see if he will be doing any cosmic stories.But I doubt that.
Not cancelled, re solicited. Same thing happened with JL #51 and #52. I'm not a fan of people using the term "cancelled" that way lately. Sends the wrong message.
Yes, you did mention Abnett's exclusive earlier in this thread, same page in fact. I imagine at some point I'm going to have to go beyond "He was great on the Marvel cosmic books" and give his other stuff like Titans a chance. I had a similar experience when I went from Gail Simone being the writer of Deadpool and Agent X to one of my favorite writers immediately after I read Villains United (the mini that launched the Secret Six).
In other news DC recently made this years Free Comic Book Day offerings free on Comixology (Dark Horse did the same for their books on their own site; I'm waiting on Marvel's) These included the first issue of the New 52's Suicide Squad, and a DC Super Hero Girls comic.
Sorry,I have a lot of stuff going on right now,so I must have forgot about it.
Seeing that DC cosmic stuff is mostly Lanterns related,I guess Abnett wont be going there soon.
IIRC Venditti is still writing Green Lantern.One of the titles at least.Bit odd considering he hasn't really done such a great job at DC.
Before Rebirth,there was some talk about Hickman coming over to DC,but I guess that didnt happen.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/report-green-arrow-rebirth-1-sells-over-90000-copies)
Looks like Green Arrow Rebirth sold over 90 000.Is this synergy thing working for once?I guess we will know soon.
And the continuation of the other major situation at DC comics.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/07/when-diane-nelson-spoke-to-katie-jones-about-sexual-harassment/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/06/07/when-diane-nelson-spoke-to-katie-jones-about-sexual-harassment/)
Triple posting,I know.I apologize.
We mentioned it in Marvel thread,so -Geoff Johns,Rebirth and darkening of superhero comics-
It reminded me on something from long ago-
http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/speaking-power-to-stupid-the-ever-dumb-green-lantern-comics-of-geoff-johns/ (http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/speaking-power-to-stupid-the-ever-dumb-green-lantern-comics-of-geoff-johns/)
The writer hated Johns with a passion,but there are some good points.Blood vomiting for once.Dismemberment.Revamping villains as "edgy".
Yeah,Johns takes a good part of the blame here,cant deny that.Brad Meltzer might have started the DC universe on a darker path,but Johns didn't really help.
The irony of him complaining about it in Rebirth isn't really lost on anyone.
Quote from: Spade on June 19, 2016, 04:04:00 PM
Triple posting,I know.I apologize.
We mentioned it in Marvel thread,so -Geoff Johns,Rebirth and darkening of superhero comics-
It reminded me on something from long ago-
http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/speaking-power-to-stupid-the-ever-dumb-green-lantern-comics-of-geoff-johns/ (http://www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2012/09/speaking-power-to-stupid-the-ever-dumb-green-lantern-comics-of-geoff-johns/)
The writer hated Johns with a passion,but there are some good points.Blood vomiting for once.Dismemberment.Revamping villains as "edgy".
Yeah,Johns takes a good part of the blame here,cant deny that.Brad Meltzer might have started the DC universe on a darker path,but Johns didn't really help.
The irony of him complaining about it in Rebirth isn't really lost on anyone.
Yeah, I got that feeling myself--Johns complaining about the very thing he's done for years is weird to me.
(http://cdn.bleedingcool.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Image-67-350x307.jpg)
Sooo...Mera votes out?Or at least,Rich has that theory.
Has anybody else been reading the new Hanna-Barbara comics? Ive only been reading Future Quest, and so far it's fantastic. I'm sure it would appeal to Daglob and a few other guys here.
The story of Future Quest combines Johnny Quest, Birdman, Space Ghost and the Herculoids into a shared universe. The art is fantastic and it really carries the tone of the cartoons well.
Read the first two issues, and find myself wanting more.
Of course, I've also read The Shadow in the Twilight Zone...
yeah I ctually subscribed to it on Comixology. I only regularly read 4 or 5 comics now. Walking Dead, Saga, Paper Girls and this, Future Quest. Nothing else really tickles my fancy.... but I have been itching to catch up on the Mike Allred Silver Surfer stuff.
I thought there would be a bit more activity here post Rebirth...
Im maybe judging it a too early(just 3 issues in),but Tom Kings Batman was way better then I expected.It carries some retro charm,without really trying too hard for it.I guess any story with Psycho-Pirate has a bit of a retro feel.
I could say the same thing for Detective Comics.Worked way better then I expected.
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135868-sdcc-dc-launching-new-hanna-barbera-verse-title-by-garth-ennis.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/135868-sdcc-dc-launching-new-hanna-barbera-verse-title-by-garth-ennis.html)
Wait,wait...Dick Dastardly ongoing by Garth Ennis?Seriously?
Post rebirth Bat family stuff has been great. Tom King is doing fun stuff in the main tittle, and I gotta say Finch's artwork hasn't looked this good in forever. Detective is a fantastic read, love the team dynamic, Tynion got every character's voice down. Still not sure of Clayface on the team, but time will tell.
The biggest surprise of all? Scott Lobdell's Red Hood and the Outlaws. The rebirth issue came out this week , and it's probably best Jason Todd story in a good while. Some great moments between Jason and Bruce, they streamlined Jason's origin and return. Final page is fantastic.
Clayface: Its carving time! :)
I think that the biggest surprise this week was Deathstroke Rebirth.It really set up some promising stuff.
I found that thing I got out of reading spoilers for All-New Batman was that Gentleman Ghost showed up, though I admit that's strictly because I'm an unabashed fan of Batman: Brave and the Bold and he was used extensively there. As for the Fury Road thing: meh. I'm read it when the trade or hardcover comes out and it'll probably be really good. Romita Jr. looked decent.
I'd also like to take the opportunity to say I actually really like the Snickers ad. I guess some people hate it, probably in no small part because they're still sour over that baffling Twix ad, but I actually really get a kick out of it, precisely because the only DC I read currently is Action Comics (which I really like by the way) and the ad basically tries to trick you into thinking it's just a scene from the book. And it's kind of an amusing twist on the tried-and-true premise of the tv spots (anyone here see that one with the Joker? Nice try, but just didn't stick the landing). I'll fully admit skimming it down to one page instead of
several as of the latest issue was probably for the best.
Anyone hear about the new Superwoman book? Crazy.
Spoiler
The very first issue kills off the New 52 Lois Lane.
Man, Rebirth is just insane. I don't think I've ever seen a company/series/franchise so vigorously tear down everything they've been stubbornly maintaining for the past few years and basically go "yeah, you're right, these last few years sucked. Let's just bring back the stuff you liked in the first place." And i'm kinda loving it! :D
No spoilers,its been at least a week since any of the events.
Im still kinda lost as to where the Watchmen plot will continue.I would assume Titans,since they are searching for the person who took Wally's memories.With Mr. Oz being in AC.Batman seems to have forgoten about Comedians badge.
Its nice that the governmant decided to do something about Gotham.But its a plan involving two near-Superman-level beings,Psycho Pirate and Hugo Strange;did they really expected it to end well.Btw Amanda Waller is now closer to her pre-Flashpoint version.
Dan DiDio and Jim Lee have been giving a lot of interviews lately;and you just gotta love the attitude "we just came here and started fixing this",not like they were here for the past 5-6 years,right?Also DiDio(of all people) pointed out recently that the sales,in the whole industry,have never been lower and that the only way to survive is to bring in new readers.
Not sure what you mean, if you mean Superwoman, it came out this week. If there were spoilers out early for that particular comic it's because reddit/4chan/Bleeding Crap/whoever leaked them, and I'm never going to legitimize them. Mind you, I imagine the chances anyone on this board is reading Superwoman is probably slim to none.
If you meant that I didn't need to put the general comments about Rebirth under the cut, that's true. I just didn't think of that. I just wanted to comment on the Superwoman thing and ended up going on a tangent.
If you mean All-Star Batman, that also came out this week. I saw it at the store myself. In all fairness, the "spoilers" I read were actually just an IGN review, so whatever. Plus "a bunch of Batman villains show up in a Batman/Two Face team up Mad Max homage" isn't a spoiler at all since that was the premise and they've been upfront about that. The more "shocking" development is some business involving Alfred that I imagine will be quite interesting when the story gets a little further along. So yes, I didn't really need to call it a spoiler, that's just what the article I was looking at said. I just wanted to say I liked Gentlemen Ghost.
If you mean major Rebirth events, the Superwoman thing was the only thing I've heard of lately. Haven't finished Action Comics yet, but there's not a lot to say. They fight Doomsday. It's fun, but until "Mr. Oz" gets off his throne and does something there's not much to discuss other than me saying Segovia's probably the weakest of the 3 artists.
Yeah, I don't know where the Watchmen stuff is going to pop again. I think I read the stuff with Joker is going to be handled in Tom King's Batman book? I only just realized how weird it is that DC doesn't already have some high-profile event book announced, unlike Marvel, where you know what the next event book is going to be before the current one's even done. Count your blessings I guess?
Shame, if all the good stuff was all in one book with as strong a creative team as the DC Rebirth one-shot, I'd buy it. I only picked up Action because the stuff with Luthor spun out of John's Justice League, I really liked that, and I liked Action's creative team, but I find the whole thing interesting so it worked out.
What DiDio's saying is true, but I guess the real surprise is he actually admitted it. I'm really sure what their solution is. 10 years ago or so the tactic was try to draw in the manga-reading crowd. That seems to run its course. Marvel's trying to have a level of synergy with the movies; I've never heard any actual indication that worked. If nothing else, having Superman, Doomsday and Wonder Woman in Action the same year as Batman V Superman feels like synergy, even if the original Death of Superman being on Clark and Lois' mind is a big part of the book. What's odd is DC's strategy right now is all about placating the older fans. Is bringing back older story elements something newer fans would even find appealing? With the internet and review shows on Youtube and such it's easy to find out about older stories, but does that translate to sales for newcomers? See, this is why I don't work in marketing.
No,I meant,Im not tagging spoilers since its been a while since the stuff I talked about came out,and people here can be sensitive about spoilers.I assume that the involvement of Watchmen in the regular DCU is common knowledge by now.And I mentioned stuff from Batman,which is also a week or two old.So nothing aimed at you.
Just the general vibe I picked up,but it seems to be working.Looks like (at least) some fans are returning.Did it bring any new readers?Hard to tell.Rebirth(the issue itself) required solid knowledge of DC history,but the regular series are pretty easy to jump into.
See, it'd be one thing if killing off New 52 Superman and replacing him with Pre-Flashpoint Superman was this low-key thing, so as not to confuse people, but in Action they bring up his Pre-Flashpoint experiences constantly. You can't read Action without being reminded that this Superman isn't "this world's" Superman, and that he comes from a "different" world, with a different Doomsday, and it just goes on like that. Yeah, I understand all of it, but what the heck are new readers going to think? I wouldn't be surprised if someone read it and went "Wait, is he the Superman from Batman v Superman?", which admittedly, would be pretty funny.
Which is a bit odd,considering this is the pre-Flashpoint universe,just that people lost memories of it.So he should be "their" Superman.
Like I said,that confrontation with Dr. M needs to happen.He has some explaining to do.
It's hilarious that DiDio is talking about how low sales are and bringing in new readers, because that is exactly what Marvel and DC have constantly demonstrated they have ZERO interest in. They can put out as many new number ones as they want, but when they're all geared for 30 year old fanboys, they're not going to be bringing in any new readers. The only future of the industry lies with kids, and they just aren't printing books that are kid friendly. All of their big books are full of content that no self-respecting parent would let their children read, and they are inaccessible even if parents are willing to let kids try them.
I let my friend's kids borrow my comics from time to time, and they just devour them. The love and the interest is there, but the access and the appropriate new material isn't.
I was gonna mention their HB line,but then I realised its geared more towards adults who liked them as kids,then the current kids.
Just for the sake of argument,I dont really see anything that bad in mainstream books.Outside maybe a joke or two that kids wouldnt get.
But I do agree that DC(and everyone else) could be doing more to attract new readers.It remains to be see if DiDio really had an enlightment.
The level of violence and gore alone in many of the books is higher than I'd be comfortable with, not to mention a general moral laxness or even failing in most "heroes." Part of this is just a reflection of our culture at large, but there's definitely a far too common trend of attempting to make stories 'mature' by amping up the sex and violence in them. Now, this is my take on the current situation, but, to be fair, I'm reading a grand total of one modern mainstream book. Nonetheless, I keep pretty well abreast of what's going on through reading the discussions on here and in general keeping my ear to the ground where comics are concerned. Nothing I hear makes me think it's a safe medium for kids.
Again,for the sake of argument,Marvel and DC have rating systems,and have ratings printed on the covers.For Example Deadpool #11(16+),Batman #7(13+).So parents should check it before they give it to their kids.
Another example;Invincible fits pretty much everything you describe,but parents should know better then to buy Invincible for their kids.And its Image,so they can get away with stuff you couldnt find in Superman.
My point being,there isnt too many of them,but there are titles aimed at children.Even if not a whole lot of them are in the superhero genre.
I assume one mainstream title you follow is Aquaman?How is Abnett doing btw?
So no idea about the sales, but Marvel does publish comics based on all of their current cartoons. They also regularly original stories based on the same, for free, on Marvelkids.com. So you can't say they aren't making some effort.
Benton, can't speak for anyone else, but I just turned thirty. I've been picking up the books since I was in junior high. My first regular DC title was Identity Crisis. And I dunno, maybe it's because one of my childhood favorite movies was Terminator 2 and I grew up watching James Bond movies with my dad, but I never really thought much of the violence, sexual references and disturbing content in the books. I mean, I'm not going to pretend the way Black Adam killed Psycho Pirate in Infinite Crisis wasn't messed up (actually it's a lot like a certain memorable scene in Game of Thrones) but I've always kind of shrugged off the violence in John's books as "Oh, that Geoff Johns". I mean Risk from the Titans got his arm ripped by Superboy Prime. Twice. That's some dark humor right there. It's only in recent years, that I lost my taste for such things by a marginal degree. I mean, it's not really a deterrent for me if the stories are good enough. I wouldn't be able to watch Game of Thrones if that were the case.
Talking about jokes the kids won't get, I point you in the direction of Star Lord's "Jackson Pollock" reference in the Guardians of the Galaxy film.
Benton, not trying to be a jerk here, nor I am disputing that DC and to a MUCH lesser extent, Marvel, don't take it a bit too far with the violence. But I think you're not giving kids enough credit. Ten years ago Marvel and DC wanted to try to get the Manga crowd because "that's what the kids read these days". Did they even know what kinda stuff they put in manga? Even the Pokemon manga has stuff that would raise your eyebrows. Hell, Death Note, a series explicitly about the police trying to catch a supernaturally powered serial killer, ran in Shonen Jump. Which means it was aimed at twelve to fifteen year olds.
For comparison's sake, Benton, if you don't mind me asking, do you find the content in Zelda or Pokemon objectionable as kids' games?
Just a correction on my previous post.DC ratings are E,T,T+,M meaning everyone,teen,teen and older,mature.And not in years,but just saying,there is a system.
Anyway,kids today(yes,Im old) spend 23 hours a day playing Call of Duty and GTA Online(is that still a thing?),Avatar Press wouldn't phase them,let alone mainstream superheroics.And they probably hear worst language in school then they could ever read in any comic.
Yep, I was actually tempted to mention those vulgar kids playing Call of Duty on X-Box Live.
Also, if I may be so bold, I believe the book Benton is referring to is IDW's TMNT.
Speaking of which, Benton, if I may be so bold again, do you consider the content in the 2003 (4Kids) and 2012 (Nicktoons) TMNT to be acceptable for children?
On the topic of the ratings, I meant to mention, I actually observed Marvel bump up the ratings for a few books from "All Ages" to "Teen +" because they realized "Oh snap, there's too much sex in these books". Amazing Spider-Man had mentions to Peter and Carlie having sex around the time of Spider-Island, and they bumped it up. X-Men had references to Rogue sleeping with Magneto, and her thoughts about sex at one point accidentally got broadcast to everyone at the school (can't remember how) and she had to do a "walk of shame" (no, not the one from Game of Thrones). It got bumped up. Avengers Acadamy showed Hank Pym and Tigra in bed, literally in mid-coitus. It got bumped. And you know what? I feel that was the right call in all three cases.
I just assumed it was something DC related,because of the topic at hand.Superhero books at Big 2 being suitable for kids or not?
I had to say what everyone meant,anyway(about CoD).Im not telling anyone how to raise their kids or anything;but I think parents have to pay attention to what they are buying to their kids(ratings I just mention).If you find superheroes inappropriate buy something else.Like (not apocalyptic) Scooby Doo for example.Or Looney Toones.
Interesting how you can get away with a whole lot of violence,but any mention of sex drives the ratings up incredibly fast.Kinda like the Killing Joke case recently.
Yeah, and a lot of people thought the R rating for Killing Joke was B.S. As I said when they first announced the movie, the original story is largely devoid of action, so of course they had to add some in, even during the actual Killing Joke segment with Batman fighting some Joker minions. I should point out I rented it digitally from my local cable provider over the tv, and here in Canada it was a PG. But then Canada has always had more lenient content restrictions for tv and movies, though when I was a kid they weren't allowed to have cartoons with "War" in the title, and so Beast Wars became "Beasties".
On the "sex vs. violence" bit, yeah, that comes up all the time. Remember when the New 52 launched (omg we're actually talking about the DC comics now! ;) ) Nobody kvetched about Joker's face getting cut off or Red Hood shooting people up, it was Catwoman banging Batman and an even more sex-ed-up Starfire that grew the most controversy. Some morons in the mainstream media thought it was a good idea to show those comics to, like, 5 year-olds at school just make their point. I think the kids said it was "gross." Cuz, you know, boys that age think girls have "the cooties".
Along a similar line, one of the reasons I can't STAND Robert Kirkman is he gloated in an Invincible letters page about how they could put in the blood and entrails they wanted, but would get slapped with an M rating if they showed a nipple. Umm, it should be rated mature anyways. Yet when it came time for Kirkman to throw shade at Marvel for a certain infamous scene in Siege, he threw that argument under the bus by saying "Invincible's nothing like that. It's always been for mature readers and everyone understands that." Despite no age rating on the book whatsoever, and many of the covers giving no indication of the content within.
The thing about the cartoons, like Batman TAS, Justice League, Young Justice, ect, is they knew they could never be as violent as the modern comics, and a lot of the stuff they wanted to do got them flak from the censors, so they had to get clever with the storytelling. A lot of times that worked out better (though in the case of the 90's Spider-Man a lot of people remember it getting silly "plasma" and all that. But we are talking Spider-Man here). You could argue that the modern comics and a lot of the newer DC animated movies get a bit lazy. Just throw a lot of violence and some swearing in there and you're golden. It worked when they did "Red Hood" but after that I found it got kinda ho-hum. The most fun for me was just being to laugh at the bluntness of it all, like the New Gods sequence in Gods and Monsters ("Yep, he's dead all right!")
IDW's got plenty of stuff that *should* ( I say should because I haven't read them myself) be fine for kids. My Little Pony, Littlest Pet Shop, Grumpy Cat, Jem and the Holograms. Archie has Sonic and Mega Man. I assume that stuff's fine. I just read the tie-in comic to the new Transformers cartoon (which itself was toned down for the kiddies compared to the much darker and violent TF Prime) and that's fine for kids. It's got TF references for the hardcore fans but the actual stories are every bit as innocuous as the cartoon it's based on.
That being said, DO NOT buy the G.I. Joe and main Transformers comics for your kids. I think we're all aware of that. Those are clearly written for the older fans. I've heard IDW's More Than Meets the Eye and Robots In Disguise comics described as "the Battlestar Galactica (that's the rebooted one) of Transformers comics" and that's about right based on the volumes I've read.
The Ghostbusters comic is also in line with the movies. It's got some mild innuendos, but nothing that kids will understand anyway. I've watched Ghostbusters like million times and it took me years to understand some of the stuff Venkman was saying, but when I did I just liked the movie more "That's the bedroom, but nothing every happened there." "What. A. Crime."
Bit late to comment Red Hood and the Outlaws,but I remember the reactions to Starfires re-imagining.Lobdell later tried to explain it myriad of ways,but he never quite dug himself out of that.
Kirkman is a huge fan of Rob Liefeld and 90's Image in general so that was to be expected.He also lampshaded the trend numerous time in the comic,thru the writer of Science Dog(a comic that main character follows)."We had to do something shocking to keep the readers attention.We were running close to 100 issues,and people were starting to lose interest:"Btw,Kirkman hasnt been writing Invincible in some time now.But I agree,the comic is for mature audience.On the other hand,other Image series have no problem showing frontal male nudity(just for reference),so this is pretty much nothing.
Well,Transformers are not for kids more because of adult themes then violence or sex.And maybe wink-wink-gay robots will bother some people.
In the category of kids titles-Bone.Yeah,thats my recommendation.Also,isnt DC publishing some Superfriends related stuff right now?I assume that would be okay.
Yeah, when I said the Transformers comics by IDW aren't for kids, I didn't mean they were overly violent or raunchy or anything like that. What I meant is they're more "intrigue" and less "fun". They don't really pander to kids for yucks. The ones I read took place entirely on Cybertron, with no kids in sight. And since they're not video games like the War for Cybertron games, there was more emphasis on character dynamics and action and shooting.
I'd love to see a revived Sam & Max comic by IDW. That seems like it'd be a no-brainer. Sadly, after Telltales Games made their Walking Dead game and the various properties after that one, Sam & Max seems to have been once again forgotten across all mediums.
Going back to DC, they've also done comics based on Teen Titans Go, and DC Super Hero Girls. I know they did digital comic versions, but I'm not sure if they ever did print versions.
To get back to the very start,I think DiDio meant they should try to bring in fans of superhero movies and TV shows.Being the same guy who said that DC publishes comics for 40-year olds, a few year back,I doubt he had kids in mind as new readers.
Freaking board! So, I tried to post this last night in response to Spade's comment, quoted below, but the board died on me and wouldn't let me. Of course, the conversation has moved on, but I still wanted to share these thoughts.
Quote from: Spade on August 12, 2016, 04:41:43 AM
Again,for the sake of argument,Marvel and DC have rating systems,and have ratings printed on the covers.For Example Deadpool #11(16+),Batman #7(13+).So parents should check it before they give it to their kids.
Another example;Invincible fits pretty much everything you describe,but parents should know better then to buy Invincible for their kids.And its Image,so they can get away with stuff you couldnt find in Superman.
My point being,there isnt too many of them,but there are titles aimed at children.Even if not a whole lot of them are in the superhero genre.
I assume one mainstream title you follow is Aquaman?How is Abnett doing btw?
True Spade, but compare that to the Silver or Bronze Age, where kids could pick up any Marvel or DC book and get plugged in to an entire universe, any title of which they could dive right into without worry. We've got the biggest selling point of superheroes completely walled off from kids: the shared universe. Yeah, maybe they can read Superman this week, but they can't read Batman, or what have you. Aren't most DC books rated at least T, for teen? Maybe that's supposed to be a more accessible rating, but I know I wouldn't let a kid much younger than 14 read a lot of those books, and the golden age for kids and superheroes starts a good deal younger. The question is not, 'are there comics kids can read,' it's 'how do we get new kids reading superhero comics.' That needs a universe of characters and books to capture and fire a young person's imagination, and that we don't have.
At best, a huge proportion of the comic titles being published and the universe they represent is, on the face of it, unfit, unwelcoming, and inaccessible to young readers. Even if they can read a particular book, they can't actually get plugged in to the wider universe, and with constant events and resets, that's more of a problem than it used to be.
In terms of what I'm reading, yeah, I'm following Aquaman. I JUST about dropped it during that execrable run by Cullen Bunn, but since there was a light at the end of the tunnel and I quite liked Dan Abnett's writing in his novels (Gaunt's Ghosts series), I decided to wait it out. I heard a great interview on the Aquaman that really showed that Abnett got the character, and that gave me a lot of hope. I'm glad I endured because he's off to a great start! All things being equal, I very much wish they had just brought the previous team back, as I think Jeff Parker was writing the best Aquaman comics of the last 30 or 40 years, but Abnett is doing a good job nonetheless. He's focusing on the most interesting part of Aquaman's persona, the split between the land and the sea. He's really playing that up in an interesting storyline and throwing some cool new pieces into the mythos.
What's most important is that his characterization is excellent. Aquaman is dead-on. He's not a rage-aholic, not even a hot-head. He's centered and even-keeled. He's humble yet has an undeniable presence. He's powerful, yet restrained. He is dedicated to protecting life, not taking it, and he refuses to kill, absolutely refuses to, which is so ridiculously refreshing that it's a sad contrast to the wider trend. He's even got a sense of humor. In short, he's a likable, fun character, one that I am actually enjoying reading about. That hasn't often been the case for him in the last SEVERAL years. Parker did it, and now Abnett is doing it, and, honestly, he's putting even more effort into establishing the character AS a character. At the same time, Mera also gets plenty of personality, a sense of humor, and depth. She's more than just the 'warrior queen' which she's been relegated to for a while. I think my favorite of the half dozen issues so far is one where the heroes and their friends just walk around a fair in a coastal town, having fun, talking to each other, and telling jokes.
In short, he's writing fun, interesting, and heroic comic stories, something of a rarity in mainstream books these days.
Now, to respond to SS's comments, I should stress first that I have been talking about mainstream superhero comics. Every month I'm reading some of the best comics ever written, as I've often said. Many of them are kid friendly, and I often recommend series like
Atomic Robo or
TMNT to my friends with kids interested in comics. Nonetheless, none of those amazing books I'm reading are mainstream (read: DC and Marvel) superhero books. SS mentioned the books by IDW, and they are definitely making a lot of great, kid friendly stuff these days, no doubt about it. Yet, that still doesn't address the future of the mainstream superhero books. Yeah, maybe those kids will 'graduate' to reading DC and Marvel, but maybe they won't, as they won't have an investment in the characters and settings that many of us do. From what I've observed personally, and from what I can tell from the market's numbers, that doesn't seem to be happening.
SS, you read books from a young age that I definitely would not be comfortable giving a child of mine. I'm glad that you enjoyed them and that it worked out for you, but because we can do something doesn't necessarily mean we should. Yeah, kids are exposed to a lot more these days than they were when I was a kid...but I'm far from convinced that's a good thing. In fact, given what I've observed in the classroom as this new generation has begun to arrive, I'm pretty convinced that whatever we're doing as a culture isn't working out all that well. Of course, I'm not fool enough to lay all or even most of that at the feet of violent video games and media. Nonetheless, it's something that I wonder about.
To answer your question, SS, I don't know much of anything about Pokemon, but, in terms of the last Zelda game I played
Twilight Princess, and the tiny bit of progress I made in it, I'd say that one seemed fine. I can't remember anything in it that would raise an eyebrow, but it has been something like six or eight years since I played it. For the TMNT 'toons, I don't remember the 2003 one that well, but what I've seen of the new one seems more or less fine, though they like their horror elements. Once again, I haven't watched that much of it because I've found it disappointing.
The violence vs. sex issue is a fair one for sure, and a problem in our culture, but both of them are problematic for me in terms of the suitability of a story for kids. And that makes the issue all the more crucial, because we've got a pretty lax attitude towards violence, even hyper, excessive violence.
@Benton I cant really argue with that.Things are a lot different then when I was starting with Thunderbolts and Ultimate Spiderman.But we are not catching that lighting again.I guess a new reader(of any age) would have a hard time breaking in because everything is self referential and continuity heavy.
Then again,I have no real frame of reference here,being a long time reader.And I dont have kids,so I cant say what would be appropriate for them.
In a sense that there is no good plug-in point for younger audience,I agree.For example,Earth One GNs are okay entry point for somewhat mature audience,but I wouldnt call them kid friendly.Thou that varies too.
And remember, digital comics still haven't entirely taken off. We're still in an age where comics themselves are physically inaccessible, hidden away in comic book stores. Younger kids, even IF they know about comics, even IF they're interested, can't get there without adult help, and most mothers aren't going to set foot in a comic book store more than once. From top to bottom, the medium in general, but ESPECIALLY the mainstream superhero companies, are cutting their own throats by keeping their product out of the hands of the only possible future readers.
Well,there is the distribution problem.The only reason to go into a comic shop is because you already have something to pick up there.
And like I said countless times before,its not about selling one comic to 20 people,its about selling 20 comics to 1 person.
Quote from: Spade on August 12, 2016, 05:59:26 PM
Well,there is the distribution problem.The only reason to go into a comic shop is because you already have something to pick up there.
And like I said countless times before,its not about selling one comic to 20 people,its about selling 20 comics to 1 person.
The other problem with that is that comics are simply too expensive these days. 3.99/5.99 may not seem that much, but for what tends to amount to only 5-10 minutes entertainment, it certainly is. I saw Civil War for that same amount and got 2 hours worth of entertainment out of it, so that should tell you how skewed the price/content ratio for comics is these days. If you want people to buy 20 comics, then they need to actually be able to afford 20 comics, because comics these days are far too much for far too little.
Actually, I've had the board crash on me a few times the last two days or so. Clearly me and Spade is chatting so much the board can't handle it Captain! ^_^
I should clarify: I read Spider-Man in junior high, but I read Identity Crisis in high school. I also read Macbeth in high school; that story's not particularly wholesome either. I also was talking in generalities about, say Death Note. I saw the english dub of the anime on tv when I nearing the end of my high school years. I should stress, while the comic was published in a magazine aimed at elementary school student, the anime aired in midnight in Japan. They knew it wasn't really the right fit for Shonen Jump.
In terms of Zelda, how did you feel about the Redeads (Zombies)? And what about Wind Waker, the one that looked like a CGI cartoon, ends with Link shoving his sword directly in Gannondorf's forehead, while Twlight Princess ended with Gannondorf getting his neck snapped (kinda, magic was involved). And then there's Ghirahim, the main villain of Skyward Sword. He looks like this (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzs1vinB7A1qkpux0o1_500.gif) he threatens to make Link "drown in his own blood" and his entire character is meant to sexually aggressive (as seen in that gif), and flamboyant. Then there was the Dynasty Warriors spinoff that made nearly all the female character more sexualized...that mind, that got a t-rating instead of the usual E-10+, but then again, as a Dynasty Warriors game, it was entirely non-stop combat, with flashy special moves.
Talking about TMNT, the 2003 one (which was inspired more by the original Mirage comics, and has a more brief nods to the infamously 90-edgy Image run) is, at times, quite a bit darker, and certainly less silly than large chunks of the 2012 one. This is a big part of why it was so divisive. The violence? Well, the running gag with Stockman was every time he failed or unsuccessfully tried to betray the Shredder, the next time we see him he'd have one less body part. a lost eye, a lost limb. Eventually he was literally a brain, spine and eyeball in a jar.
Then he became a zombie with rotting flesh. That episode got banned in the U.S. Which is a shame, because it was really good (not because of the zombie thing, but because of his flashbacks, which made the whole story very bittersweet). Lessee, then there was the Loftcraft episode (that also had zombies) where one of the Turtles (Leo?) saw a vision of Splinter dying....then there was the episode where the Turtles were in a dream where all of their friends and allies died one after another (including Mikey's
cat! ), then there was the episode where Karai seemingly killed Mikey, Ralph, Donnie and Splinter, and we didn't see how they survived until part 2....there was the one where Leo cut the Shredder's head off (he got better)....then there was the Lost Season, which DID eventually air in the U.S., where the demon Shredder from feudal Japan (who ALSO had an army of zombies) defeated Karai, torn off lairs of her clothes, and said he wanted to keep her as a "servant girl". Did I mention he looked just her adoptive father? She also gets stabbed and has to rest at April's apartment for a while (she was a good guy at the time, kinda)
[EDIT] Oh snap, I forgot the time Agent Bishop got impaled on a meat hook (he
also got better). Then there was "Same as it Never Was", which was basically Days of Future Past mixed with that mecha fight from Matrix Revolutions. All but two characters die horribly and the whole thing ends with Donnie running a sonic drill the size of a Zamboni through the Shredder's face....
onscreen. *phew* How was that?
QuoteSS, you read books from a young age that I definitely would not be comfortable giving a child of mine. I'm glad that you enjoyed them and that it worked out for you, but because we can do something doesn't necessarily mean we should. Yeah, kids are exposed to a lot more these days than they were when I was a kid...but I'm far from convinced that's a good thing. In fact, given what I've observed in the classroom as this new generation has begun to arrive, I'm pretty convinced that whatever we're doing as a culture isn't working out all that well. Of course, I'm not fool enough to lay all or even most of that at the feet of violent video games and media. Nonetheless, it's something that I wonder about.
I also watched Buffy when I was elementary and high school, and everything that was in Identity Crisis was in Buffy. but that's the rub, isn't it? That was the later seasons. The early seasons were fairly innocuous fare, comparable to say, Are You Afraid of the Dark or Goosebumps. I just described the more violent parts of the 2003 TMNT, but that was like 5% of a show that ran for 8 seasons. How do you know if the episode you're gonna watch just go happens to be one of the more violent ones? It's kinda like that in the comics too. I pretty sure the actual ratio of issues Johns has wrote where gore happens is a 50% split at
best. But that's one of the things we remember him for.
Bringing it back to comics (too late!) The thing you got to remember, Benton, about those relatively wholesale Silver Age comics you remember more fondly.
Nobody wanted to make them that way. That era of comics was notoriously censored. The entire reason the superhero genre became so popular was basically because the Comics Code Authority was clamping down on horror and crime comics. Criminals weren't allowed to be shown in an sympathetic light (compare that to say....Brian Azzarello or Garth Ennis' body of work). Authority figures like the police were never to be shown in a negative light (so something like Civil War with its "Cape Killer" units or the X-Men's "MRD's" were right out of the question!) Stan Lee got all of the flak just for depicting drug use in a Spidey comic....
and it was depicted entirely in a negative light. As in full-on South Park "Drugs R' Bad". It wasn't Woodstock or anything. Peter David has nothing nice to say about the Comics Code. When someone asked him about it being dissolved he complained that they would not let him have an on-screen same-sex kiss....the reason it ticked him off was because one of the characters was J'onn J'onnz shapeshifted into a female, so in his eyes it "didn't count". (I actually have that issue. It's the same issue that all but outright said that Wonder Woman and all of the Amazon's had sex with each other on Paradise Island). So just think, if all those disgruntled comic writers had their way, they would have made the books as raunchy and violent as they wanted decades ago, and you could have been turned off back then. You entire life could have gone in a different direction. I'm seeing it now. You play the harpsichord in a major orchestra and are a Pierre du Cinema buff (I'm sure I'm butchering that).
Official explanation is that prices of paper skyrocketed during the 90's.But Im sure that Diamond having a monopoly on comic distribution didnt really help.
Like I said,its about bleeding the existing audience dry.
@SS funny story,I had a similar talk on a different board.We kinda thought anime and manga are not the best example,because Japan doesnt really have ratings in classical sense.And even something as innocent as a card game can get scary.Yugi pretty much being The Spectre,for example.And thats not even the worst example I could think of something aimed at kids ending up not kid friendly.Cough Gundam F91 cough.And thats still not going into really nasty stuff.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/08/12/dc-beat-marvels-marketshare-in-july-2016-41-with-a-third-fewer-comics/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/08/12/dc-beat-marvels-marketshare-in-july-2016-41-with-a-third-fewer-comics/)
Related to an earlier discussion;for the first in quite a while DC has beaten Marvel in sales.But this was the Rebirth month and there was a bunch of #1,so a jump in sales was expected.I doubt that trend will continue thou.
Quote from: Spade on August 12, 2016, 06:38:57 PM
Official explanation is that prices of paper skyrocketed during the 90's.But Im sure that Diamond having a monopoly on comic distribution didnt really help.
Like I said,its about bleeding the existing audience dry.
@SS funny story,I had a similar talk on a different board.We kinda thought anime and manga are not the best example,because Japan doesnt really have ratings in classical sense.And even something as innocent as a card game can get scary.Yugi pretty much being The Spectre,for example.And thats not even the worst example I could think of something aimed at kids ending up not kid friendly.Cough Gundam F91 cough.And thats still not going into really nasty stuff.
Japan's content standards baffle me. You can show characters being impaled, stabbed, decapitated and shot dead in a kids comic/show, with more bouncing breast than Gurren Lagann and Gundam Seed combined, but their M-rated games get censored for violence. How does that make sense?
As for sexual content, comics blogger Dave Campbell said it best (when taking the urine out of British comics) "My pet theory is that the more outwardly polite and reserved your society is - I'm looking at you, Japan - the more twisted and subversive your pop culture becomes." Yeah, that sounds about right.
I rather wouldnt start about anime industry and its trends.And I have been sort of out of the loop for years,Best decision ever.I wasnt gonna mention fanservice and stuff like that.
My point being,you cant really compare manga and comics in terms of ratings.In terms of anything,probably.Different values and all that.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 12, 2016, 06:22:44 PM
In terms of Zelda, how did you feel about the Redeads (Zombies)? And what about Wind Waker, the one that looked like a CGI cartoon, ends with Link shoving his sword directly in Gannondorf's forehead, while Twlight Princess ended with Gannondorf getting his neck snapped (kinda, magic was involved). And then there's Ghirahim, the main villain of Skyward Sword. He looks like this (http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lzs1vinB7A1qkpux0o1_500.gif) he threatens to make Link "drown in his own blood" and his entire character is meant to sexually aggressive (as seen in that gif), and flamboyant. Then there was the Dynasty Warriors spinoff that made nearly all the female character more sexualized...that mind, that got a t-rating instead of the usual E-10+, but then again, as a Dynasty Warriors game, it was entirely non-stop combat, with flashy special moves.
Not being really familiar with any of this stuff, I can't comment directly, but I'll say this: because something has been done, that doesn't mean it should be done. Just the same, I don't think that all violence is created equal. A violent end to the big bad, conducted with some restraint, isn't necessarily something to freak out about. I suppose it would all depend on what these things actually looked like. But clearly we've got some pretty uneven standards in our media. That's not a good thing, and I don't think the answer is to have no standards (not saying that's your position), so we need to figure out where to draw our lines. There is, I think, in general a gap between video games and other media, and I'd say that a lot of what kids get exposed to these days probably isn't for the best.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 12, 2016, 06:22:44 PM
Talking about TMNT, the 2003 one (which was inspired more by the original Mirage comics, and has a more brief nods to the infamously 90-edgy Image run) is, at times, quite a bit darker, and certainly less silly than large chunks of the 2012 one. This is a big part of why it was so divisive. The violence? Well, the running gag with Stockman was every time he failed or unsuccessfully tried to betray the Shredder, the next time we see him he'd have one less body part. a lost eye, a lost limb. Eventually he was literally a brain, spine and eyeball in a jar. Then he became a zombie with rotting flesh. That episode got banned in the U.S. Which is a shame, because it was really good (not because of the zombie thing, but because of his flashbacks, which made the whole story very bittersweet). Lessee, then there was the Loftcraft episode (that also had zombies) where one of the Turtles (Leo?) saw a vision of Splinter dying....then there was the episode where the Turtles were in a dream where all of their friends and allies died one after another (including Mikey's cat! ), then there was the episode where Karai seemingly killed Mikey, Ralph, Donnie and Splinter, and we didn't see how they survived until part 2....there was the one where Leo cut the Shredder's head off (he got better)....then there was the Lost Season, which DID eventually air in the U.S., where the demon Shredder from feudal Japan (who ALSO had an army of zombies) defeated Karai, torn off lairs of her clothes, and said he wanted to keep her as a "servant girl". Did I mention he looked just her adoptive father? She also gets stabbed and has to rest at April's apartment for a while (she was a good guy at the time, kinda) [EDIT] Oh snap, I forgot the time Agent Bishop got impaled on a meat hook (he also got better). Then there was "Same as it Never Was", which was basically Days of Future Past mixed with that mecha fight from Matrix Revolutions. All but two characters die horribly and the whole thing ends with Donnie running a sonic drill the size of a Zamboni through the Shredder's face....onscreen. *phew* How was that?
There's some pretty messed up stuff in there, but once again, I say because it has been done doesn't mean it should be done again. Your point seems to be, 'we're already giving kids access to all kinds of stuff,' and that's fair enough. Yet, I'm not sure that's a good thing, and when parents pay attention (not often enough, granted), that's the kind of stuff that tends to make them not want their kids consuming a certain type of material. We don't want comics consigned to that bin.
On the other hand, I'm not against every type of edgy content. I think good measures of what can be done and done well are the Timmverse shows, if we're going to talk in TV terms. They told complex, compelling stories, and they did so while keeping them clean, limiting the violence, and never talking down to their audience. What's more, they still had challenging, impactful stories. I'll come back to this point after I address your other comments.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 12, 2016, 06:22:44 PM
I also watched Buffy when I was elementary and high school, and everything that was in Identity Crisis was in Buffy. but that's the rub, isn't it? That was the later seasons. The early seasons were fairly innocuous fare, comparable to say, Are You Afraid of the Dark or Goosebumps. I just described the more violent parts of the 2003 TMNT, but that was like 5% of a show that ran for 8 seasons. How do you know if the episode you're gonna watch just go happens to be one of the more violent ones? It's kinda like that in the comics too. I pretty sure the actual ratio of issues Johns has wrote where gore happens is a 50% split at best. But that's one of the things we remember him for.
While I think that no-one should ever read
Identity Crisis, that has very little to do with age appropriateness. :P I think that there's a pretty big difference between high school kids, who are old enough, if not mature enough, to be reading most of this stuff, and, say, my friend's 8 year old, who loves comics, but who I wouldn't dream of giving most of the modern books I've seen.
I also think there is MUCH more inconsistency of material and tone in comics than in a TV show. For example, five or six issues ago in
Aquaman, the hero (unwittingly) had sex with his wife's (
fiance, DARN IT DC!) sister. and some folks get murdered in grisly fashion Say, two issues later everyone has a lovely time at the fair. I read several of the New 52 books for several arcs, and while not every issue had something objectionable in it (we're not talking about Garth Ennis here), not a single one of the runs I read was something that I'd be comfortable giving to a kid in its entirety. Some of them have sections that are fine, but even that brings us back to my earlier point: The universe as a whole and even the books as a whole aren't accessbile to younger audiences.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 12, 2016, 06:22:44 PM
Bringing it back to comics (too late!) The thing you got to remember, Benton, about those relatively wholesale Silver Age comics you remember more fondly. Nobody wanted to make them that way. That era of comics was notoriously censored. The entire reason the superhero genre became so popular was basically because the Comics Code Authority was clamping down on horror and crime comics. Criminals weren't allowed to be shown in an sympathetic light (compare that to say....Brian Azzarello or Garth Ennis' body of work). Authority figures like the police were never to be shown in a negative light (so something like Civil War with its "Cape Killer" units or the X-Men's "MRD's" were right out of the question!) Stan Lee got all of the flak just for depicting drug use in a Spidey comic....and it was depicted entirely in a negative light. As in full-on South Park "Drugs R' Bad". It wasn't Woodstock or anything. Peter David has nothing nice to say about the Comics Code. When someone asked him about it being dissolved he complained that they would not let him have an on-screen same-sex kiss....the reason it ticked him off was because one of the characters was J'onn J'onnz shapeshifted into a female, so in his eyes it "didn't count". (I actually have that issue. It's the same issue that all but outright said that Wonder Woman and all of the Amazon's had sex with each other on Paradise Island). So just think, if all those disgruntled comic writers had their way, they would have made the books as raunchy and violent as they wanted decades ago, and you could have been turned off back then. You entire life could have gone in a different direction. I'm seeing it now. You play the harpsichord in a major orchestra and are a Pierre du Cinema buff (I'm sure I'm butchering that).
I see what you're saying, SS, but I'm not sure that I really see that this is relevant to the point I'm arguing. I think you are seeing something in what I said that I did not intend. :) I never said that we should go back to the Silver Age or the CC. The CC was extremely restrictive in the Silver Age, and the resultant stories weren't nearly as cool as what came later. As for remembering the Silver Age so fondly, well, personally, give me the Bronze Age and the looser restrictions any day, but that's neither here nor there. I'm not suggesting that there should be censorship. I mentioned the Silver and Bronze Ages to illustrate the accessibility of the medium in the days of its health and success. Specifically, that's the period where wider demographic groups (kids, teens, and even adults) began reading comics and where they began to acquire readers who would follow them for years. I don't have any particular feelings on the score of censorship, though I'm uncomfortable with aggressive, top-down censorship. I think a ratings system is fine, insofar as it goes.
I'm saying that DC and Marvel can't survive without bringing in new readers, and the only possible and sustainable source of new readers is young people, and I'm not talking about high school or even junior high. High school kids, for the most part, aren't going to start reading comics unless they're already invested in the culture in one way or another. I'm talking about younger kids, kids my niece's (8) and nephew's (10) ages, a demographic that is perfectly primed for everything that superheroes do, but who are being almost entirely ignored by the big two as they weep about their declining sales. The only way to bring them in is to write books that are accessible to them, in many ways, physically, morally, and, as Spade pointed out, financially.
As for how to do it because 'everyone hates constraints so much,' well folks do it all the time in other mediums, like the Timmverse shows already mentioned. You can also hire folks that want to tell the types of stories you want to publish, your Ty Templetons and your Jeff Parkers. You can do a lot without brandishing the censorship club. Even so, I don't think we'd suffer much for having some of the extremes of certain creators reined in. Often times, as, I think you yourself said, such things tend to lead to more creative and better writing. Still, that's neither here nor there. Editors always exercise a certain amount of restraint over their creative teams in order to get the type of books they want to publish. 'No, you can't draw Wonder Woman topless, no you can't make Squirrel Girl the new Captain America...' This is a question of degrees, not kind.
But the point here is not that we need some type of censorship. In fact, I imagine that might even end up being counterproductive. No, the point is that what the industry is doing is not working,
clearly, and I can only see one way it can be saved. A big part of that is putting out books that kids want to, and will be allowed to, read. Until and unless the big two come to that realization and stop hitching their collective stars to the same, ever-dwindling market of aging fanboys, they'll continue their slide into oblivion.
If I had my druthers, for example, if I were running one of these companies, I'd put out an entire line of books pitched at about the Timm-verse level, accessible from both ends of the age range, and I'd put them where kids are, in Walmart, at the grocery store, at Toys 'R Us, etc. I'd develop as many shows as possible that actually matched the comics and build some synergy. However, I'm not in charge, and neither of the big two show any signs of waking up. They continue to do the same things while desperately flailing about, hoping they can stop their slow death without actually changing anything. It makes sense, I suppose. Doing anything really drastic would be a big risk. You might alienate your existing customers, and it might not work. Still, I can't see any other way forward.
Like a friend of mine once said: I dont see why they complain about games,we grew up on Mortal Kombat,and look how great we turned out.But Im not really in the loop there either,so I leave that to others.
Sad truth is,we live in a world where watching the news is a lot scarier then consuming any work of fiction.So I agree with SS there that we should give kids more credit.But Im not saying comics should be realistic like that ofc.
Just for reference,I read Hitman when I was around 9-10 and it hasnt scarred me for life or anything.But it was a different time back then,I guess.
And as much as its not wise in the long run,you cant really blame the Big 2 for making their comics T+,since something like 90% of their audience are over 20.Ofc,it is possible to attract old and new readers.Like say,Ultimate Spiderman did.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 12, 2016, 10:32:02 PM
A violent end to the big bad, conducted with some restraint, isn't necessarily something to freak out about.
That is a good point, and one that for whatever reason I didn't really touch on. A lot of times it's the villain that meets a grisly end (just look at the original TMNT movies, or any number of Disney animated films like Lion King, Aladdin or Snow White) I think everyone involved including the children understands that this makes it more of a cautionary tale. Never understand what was up with the original Grimm's Fairy Tales, though. Those were messed the heck up. I understand it's to scare kids so they won't misbehave, but still.
On a related note, I never did elaborate on Pokemon, is which is typically as tame as you can get and still be an "action" series, but all of the darker violent stuff, again, involved bad guys getting their comeuppance (all of one or two notable instances in the franchise that were uncharacteristically dark) and the Ghost-type Pokemon, which again, files under cautionary tale, with some of the weirder stuff just being repackaged Japanese folklore, and in at least one instance, being edited out of the North American version due to a reference to Hell
QuoteThere's some pretty messed up stuff in there, but once again, I say because it has been done doesn't mean it should be done again.
Well, seasons 3-5 (arguably the darkest and most violent ones, and the source of most of the examples I gave) were written by the Chris Yost. As in the guy who started his X-Men by blowing up a schoolbus full of young X-Men students. And for the record, that TMNT show was one of the only good things he ever wrote. I'm actually a little afraid to rewatch his seasons in case I ended up hating them because I notice all his worst traits as a writer.
QuoteYour point seems to be, 'we're already giving kids access to all kinds of stuff,' and that's fair enough. Yet, I'm not sure that's a good thing, and when parents pay attention (not often enough, granted), that's the kind of stuff that tends to make them not want their kids consuming a certain type of material. We don't want comics consigned to that bin.
Actually that first bit isn't what I wanted to express at all. More than anything I really did want to know your thoughts since I was pretty sure you didn't watch much of the show. I'd seen you talk about the current show, and I hardly need to ask your thoughts on the Timm DC shows (which for the record, were
my real ambassador to the greater DC lore, more than any comic at the time) since you've praised them mainly times. It's been said before (and I think I agree) that in many ways the Timm cartoons (especially JLU, which to me was their best stuff) was superior to the comic counterparts that came out at the same time and since. I saw Superfriends
way too late to appreciate it much (as in, reruns that aired alongside Justice League) and I thought that show kinda sucked in comparison. Even Flash makes fun of Superfriends in the first JL arc.
I will admit I get a bit defensive even time you say "doesn't mean we should" just because it sounds a bit judgmental, and like Spade I've never bought the "violent video games turn children into criminals" business because that's been touted in one form or another since my father's days and by and large it's been debunked. But that's the nice thing about lengthy discussions that
aren't just angry shouting matches. There's a greater bigger to take in context.
In terms of TMNT? Ever since Nickolodeon bought the property (which really, Micheal Bay or not, was the best thing to happen to the franchise
since the 2003 tv revival) TMNT's been everywhere, but honestly, I don't know if kids even
watched the 2003 show. I never saw people outside me and my family and people online ever talk about it, even with toys on store shelves. It's not like today, where Turtle mania is here just like it was in the early 90s. But I never heard people complain about the violence per see. What people said was it was a double standard because the dubbed anime on the same Fox Kids tv block (dubbed by the same company making TMNT to boot) was censored to high heaven, with Marines using squirt guns, but here's an American cartoon, and it's "Guns! Crime! Stuff blowing up!" and older fans cried "double standard". I never heard people say it was too violent for the kids, like you said, it was another discussion about the standards are all over the place and not consistent.
You talked about the parenting. And that's a really good point. I grew up watching Canadian tv, and there was this really good PSA commercial spot that aired all the time, where a talking tv would tell kids that it's important to talk about your parents about "all the kind of stuff you see on tv" (and perhaps most appropriately, it showed a clip from the season 2 finale of Reboot, another really good example because that show went from fairly innocuous to
way darker, way more violent, and a good deal more risque and broader comedy wise (with everything from Evil Dead to Austin Powers getting parodied on a regular basis) after the creators got free of the censors. Incidentally, you know who responsible for the "darkening" of those later seasons of Reboot? I kid you not,
Dan Didio!Yeah, so any way, parents helping their kids pick out comics is definitely a good direction to go. Especially since the covers alone really going to give you a good indication of whether Marvel or DC are going to randomly turn "T for Teen" into R-rated violence like they sometimes do. I've said for a while, comics are so niche they get away with way more because the media gives way more coverage to movies, tv, and even video games to a lesser degree. So Marvel Studios, as in the movies, embraces the nice, safe, everyone can enjoy it PG-13, DC just said "make everything like Nolan's Batman" because that made money, and for whatever reason (Micheal Bay?) Transformers decided to play to the lowest common denominator. Strangely, I predicted a year ago that the Killing Joke movie would ruffle mainstream feathers but as far as I know, that totally didn't happen. The only people who complained were the fans because DC added 30 minutes of filler and Bruce Timm was shipping Babs and Bruce again.
QuoteOn the other hand, I'm not against every type of edgy content. I think good measures of what can be done and done well are the Timmverse shows, if we're going to talk in TV terms. They told complex, compelling stories, and they did so while keeping them clean, limiting the violence, and never talking down to their audience. What's more, they still had challenging, impactful stories. I'll come back to this point after I address your other comments.
I do think The Bruce Timm stuff hit that sweet spot. Young Justice was probably fine too. I think Brave and the Bold was an interesting example, because that show was so devoted to light-hearted, silver age, almost Adam West, like material, that when they did do stuff like the Siege of Starro where an recurring hero died, or the Darkseid episode, or that one horrifying dark cold open with the Spectre, it stood out that much more. And then there was the episode where the Birds of Prey sang a song about the male heroes' sexual inadequacy, which appropriately, was written by Gail Simone. And again, that's another example where the episode was banned in the U.S. It was damn funny though.
QuoteWhile I think that no-one should ever read Identity Crisis, that has very little to do with age appropriateness. :P I think that there's a pretty big difference between high school kids, who are old enough, if not mature enough, to be reading most of this stuff, and, say, my friend's 8 year old, who loves comics, but who I wouldn't dream of giving most of the modern books I've seen.
Lol. To bring it back to trying to get new, younger readers, I think it really might also have a lot to do with comics being so inconvenient. Even if you read them on say, a tablet, and don't have to worry about long boxes piling as far as the eye can see, they're a massive time-sink compared to going to the theater, watching Captain America, enjoying it, walking out, and waiting for the next one. And when you have such good adaptations (and also DC's versions, unfortunately) it might not seem worth it to take your chances with the comics.
That's why I'm surprised that comics based on, say, DC Super Hero Girls, or Teen Titans/ TT Go! don't work out better than they seem to. With comics like that, you gotta imagine it's a safe bet. If your a kid, and you liked the show, chances are you'd like the comic. Noticed I didn't say Young Justice or Beware the Batman or Green Lantern because Cartoon Network screwed those shows over like no one's business.
They also say DC does things to turn off the fans of the cartoons. A lot of people got snarky and pointed out that the original Teen Titans cartoon pulled in more viewers than the amount of people who actually buy DC comics, so making a Starfire (Red Hood and Outlaws SF) who is a total turn off to fans of the cartoon version is a missed opportunity to get that synergy. There's a really good Shortpacked comic that illustrates this, but since it involved THAT version of Starfire, it's kinda NSFW, so I won't link to it here. I haven't read the later stuff with SF, but even a surface look seems to indicate they split the difference and made her a kinda "Harley Quinn-lite" (and let's not even get started on Harley Quinn! We'd be here all day!) Personally I think the JL vs Teen Titans actually did a really good job of bringing us the "Real Starfire". She wasn't oversexualized, she wasn't a wacky cartoon character; she was basically all the best positive tropes of the character adapted. As such, I think it's probably the best adapted version of the character.
By the same token, along with other people, Neil Adams himself criticized Warner Bros ect for making Hal the movie Green Lantern instead of the guy who appeared on the successful cartoon. And you know what, I agree. No matter how he came off in this or that comic, in JLU, John Stewart was the man. Hal on the other hand, even after Johns tried to make him cool, is still some boring white guy in a sea of white guy superheroes.
QuoteIf I had my druthers, for example, if I were running one of these companies, I'd put out an entire line of books pitched at about the Timm-verse level, accessible from both ends of the age range, and I'd put them where kids are, in Walmart, at the grocery store, at Toys 'R Us, etc. I'd develop as many shows as possible that actually matched the comics and build some synergy. However, I'm not in charge, and neither of the big two show any signs of waking up. They continue to do the same things while desperately flailing about, hoping they can stop their slow death without actually changing anything. It makes sense, I suppose. Doing anything really drastic would be a big risk. You might alienate your existing customers, and it might not work. Still, I can't see any other way forward.
I would have thought having kid-friendly comics based on stuff like DC cartoons for Free Comic Book Day would have helped, since they've doing that for a over a decade (and I've definitely seen people bring their kids in on FCBD and have them pick such a comic) But I guess it just doesn't make enough of a difference?
Disney bought Marvel because it valued the movie and cartoon money. Maybe they need to try something new. Here's an idea. In Japan, every Pokemon movie to this day ran in theaters alongside major American and Japanese competition (probably not for long, consider how much less money they made on the one from last year, but I digress). Every ticket into the movie got you a Pokemon card and/or a Pokemon to download directly into their Pokemon game. Why not give away Marvel and DC comics in the theater with the movie? That would get comics in the hands of a
boatload more people, and they wouldn't even have to find a comic book store.
Didnt know Yost was writing TMNT 2003.But it does put things in different perspective.And to be fair,violence was more heavily implied then shown.We just see the shadows when Leo decapitates Shredder.And camera always panned out before something gruesome happens.Cthullu epsiode is still scary as it was when I first saw it,but its actually one of my favorites.Urban legend is that by the end of it,viewership was so low that they could have gotten away with anything because nobody was watching it anyway.At one point one of the Dark Turtles(they need to bring them back btw) remarks: This book sucked eggs! Major thing by 4Kids standards.
And again,seeing that kids today watch Happy Tree Friends,this is still nothing.
Eh.....Ash from Pokemon has uttered a "this sucks" once or twice. I think that might have been post-4kids dub, but still.
And when the viewership was dropping, they slashed the budget, made it lighter and softer, and doubled down on the gimmicks (Now they're in the future! Now they're in Cyberspace! ect) at the TMNT 25th anniversary panel, they talked about the show, and someone asked if 4Kids gave them a hard time about the content, and they said "no, we were pretty free to do what we wanted". And yes, it wasn't nearly as violent as it sounded when I describe it, but it was still far violent than the 87 cartoon or movies. For one thing, the foot soldiers were actually people this time around.
Though the original movies got a great nod in the Lost Season. The Demon Shredder takes one look at a Foot and is like "Teenagers? Really?" And surprisingly that was the first time we got a solid idea who was filling out the ranks of those foot soldiers.
That's another little kinda disappointment about the Nicktoons show. They started with real people as the Foot...then introduced the robots later, and then after that it was pretty much robot Foot Soldiers all the time.
I have watched Pokemon in years,so I cant say.But like you said,compare it to other things 4Kids did at that time.And I still consider it MY version of the Turtles.I watched the first season of 2012 version and it just didnt click with me.
To get back to the topic(what was it again?),I havent really noticed anything that bad in post-Rebirth titles.Speaking strictly of DC.
Well, it was supposed to be failure to attract new readers, but somehow got sidetracked big time into a broad discussion of cartoon violence.
Actually, the Nicktoons Turtles got a lot better in time (so did Pokemon, for that matter) TMNT kinda hit its stride about halfway through season 2, culminating in a REALLY good (and quite dark) S2 finale. AAAND they flushed all that down the toilet for the first half of S3, where they spent almost the half the season at the farmhouse and the creators went overboard with the horror homage tropes and Mikey "humor". Then it got really good again, then they went into space for S4 (which was a LOT better than the farmhouse was), where David Tennant stole the show as the Fugitoid, and now we're all just patiently waiting for this show's version of City At War.
No, to my knowledge, DC hasn't done something violent since.....I dunno, Forever Evil? I'm sure they have, however, done something stupid (they always do, don't they? It's still at zero, isn't it?)
That actually reminds me: I finished Action Comics last night. "Mr. OZ" actually got up off his throne and did something....for 1 panel. But the cliffhanger implies he'll have a bigger role next issue so to quote Alpha Quintesson from every episode of Transformers Energon: "Something interesting might happen!"
Its been 2 day.They forgot to continue Prez,even thou Dan Didio promised there will be six more issue.20 days before that it was the Killing joke thing.
Yeah,this decompression thing is kinda testing my patience.
And just to mention that,Flash is also to a pretty good start.Okay,the whole thing is more or less Flash-island(as in Spider-Island,get it),but its enjoyable.
Spade, I haven't encountered anything too bad in the post Rebirth books, but then again, I'm only reading Aquaman AND there have only been, what, like three issues? Give them time. They'll do something terrible.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 13, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
QuoteYour point seems to be, 'we're already giving kids access to all kinds of stuff,' and that's fair enough. Yet, I'm not sure that's a good thing, and when parents pay attention (not often enough, granted), that's the kind of stuff that tends to make them not want their kids consuming a certain type of material. We don't want comics consigned to that bin.
Actually that first bit isn't what I wanted to express at all. More than anything I really did want to know your thoughts since I was pretty sure you didn't watch much of the show. I'd seen you talk about the current show, and I hardly need to ask your thoughts on the Timm DC shows (which for the record, were my real ambassador to the greater DC lore, more than any comic at the time) since you've praised them mainly times. It's been said before (and I think I agree) that in many ways the Timm cartoons (especially JLU, which to me was their best stuff) was superior to the comic counterparts that came out at the same time and since. I saw Superfriends way too late to appreciate it much (as in, reruns that aired alongside Justice League) and I thought that show kinda sucked in comparison. Even Flash makes fun of Superfriends in the first JL arc.
Ahh, my apologies, SS, I thought you were angling to make a point there. I see now. :) Yes, I imagine my love for the Timmverse stuff is pretty well known these days! :lol: I think it's definitely safe to say that the Timmverse 'toons told better stories than the comics during the same time. In fact, I'd put their storytelling against almost any comparable run of the comics. Superfriends was magic when I was a little kid, and it is what established my love for these characters. It's pretty hard to watch these days, though. Yeesh.
Anyway, both of those shows demonstrate the power of other media, especially TV, to sow the seeds for fandom and comic book reading. However, and this is central to my argument, such successes, unsupported by any significant efforts on the part of the comic companies themselves, can't turn things around by themselves.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 13, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
I will admit I get a bit defensive even time you say "doesn't mean we should" just because it sounds a bit judgmental, and like Spade I've never bought the "violent video games turn children into criminals" business because that's been touted in one form or another since my father's days and by and large it's been debunked. But that's the nice thing about lengthy discussions that aren't just angry shouting matches. There's a greater bigger to take in context.
Well, I'm not trying to sound judgmental, SS; I don't want to give you the wrong impression. I
do want to express concern and uncertainty. Of course video games aren't turning kids into criminals, no more than comic books were doing so in the 50s during the
Seduction of the Innocent scare. That is a ridiculous argument, and one I already rejected. No, I am not worried about any kind of direct causation. I am, however, concerned that our culture is not necessarily the healthiest of environments, and I wonder what might contribute (not be a sole cause) to that. It seems a rougher, darker place than it was when I was younger, and I'm definitely seeing trends in the young people I encounter in my profession that give me pause.
No, I'm not fool enough to believe in any direct correlation, but I have observed tendencies in my own experiences that cause me concern. When I've played extremely violent games or consumed very violent media of one form or another (or morally problematic materials) for an extended period of time, I have noticed a...desensitizing effect, for lack of a better term. Does that mean I'm going to go out and do something awful? Of course not, I've still got free will, and I still have the values and habits I've developed in my life. If I'm not already the type of person to do something terrible, playing a game or reading a book isn't going to make me do so. Yet, I wonder if it might make it easier to ignore something troublesome or even to rationalize something worse. I don't have any answers, and I don't have the wisdom to say, 'THIS is too much and THAT is good and THIS is bad' on the large scale. I do think that it's something we should probably be paying attention to, though, as a culture. One thing I am sure about is that, whether or not it does any
harm, it certainly does no
good to have kids exposed to violence and sexual content they aren't ready for.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 13, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
Incidentally, you know who responsible for the "darkening" of those later seasons of Reboot? I kid you not, Dan Didio!
Freaking DiDio! :P
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 13, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
Strangely, I predicted a year ago that the Killing Joke movie would ruffle mainstream feathers but as far as I know, that totally didn't happen. The only people who complained were the fans because DC added 30 minutes of filler and Bruce Timm was shipping Babs and Bruce again.
Urg...I really, intensely dislike that trend. That's just not right. <_<
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 13, 2016, 12:06:48 PM
I would have thought having kid-friendly comics based on stuff like DC cartoons for Free Comic Book Day would have helped, since they've doing that for a over a decade (and I've definitely seen people bring their kids in on FCBD and have them pick such a comic) But I guess it just doesn't make enough of a difference?
Disney bought Marvel because it valued the movie and cartoon money. Maybe they need to try something new. Here's an idea. In Japan, every Pokemon movie to this day ran in theaters alongside major American and Japanese competition (probably not for long, consider how much less money they made on the one from last year, but I digress). Every ticket into the movie got you a Pokemon card and/or a Pokemon to download directly into their Pokemon game. Why not give away Marvel and DC comics in the theater with the movie? That would get comics in the hands of a boatload more people, and they wouldn't even have to find a comic book store.
A lot of your other comments really come down to this right here, SS. This ties in with DC shooting themselves in the foot with synergy, this ties in to cross media promotion, and everything else. You're hitting it all right here. They've been doing this kind of stuff (often poorly, as you pointed out) for decades. They had comics based on
Batman: TAS,
JLU, and all kinds of other shows, all of them age appropriate and accessible, right? Yet, we're still here, and they're still sliding into oblivion. So, why doesn't it work? Well, part of it is that they've often been bad at it. They turn Starfire into a...well...I don't know how I could describe her that would be fit for polite company, but they don't take advantage of the love the character has among young fans. They don't capitalize on Stewart's popularity. The examples are many. Yet, that's really just a drop in the bucket, and they've done things right sometimes too.
The reason none of this stuff ever works, at least not on the large scale and for the long term, is that they never do anything ON the large scale. They put out one or two kid friendly books based on a cartoon, and maybe they give a comic away in a cereal box. That doesn't change the larger problem, the dual facts that 99% of what they publish is not accessible, content-wise, to kids OR the fact that they are not
physically accessible for kids. Until you have a comic universe that kids can get in to AND you have comics where kids are (be it digitally or physically), and, let's face it, affordable by them as well, you're never going to bring in new readers in any numbers. That's the problem. It isn't that they aren't doing anything right, it's that they want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to dabble in these little experiments to bring in new readers, but they don't actually want to change anything. That just won't work.
Also,Im glad Abnett has been well recieved.And that DC doesnt have the No-marriage policy any more.
Quote from: Spade on August 12, 2016, 07:28:49 PM
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/08/12/dc-beat-marvels-marketshare-in-july-2016-41-with-a-third-fewer-comics/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/08/12/dc-beat-marvels-marketshare-in-july-2016-41-with-a-third-fewer-comics/)
Related to an earlier discussion;for the first in quite a while DC has beaten Marvel in sales.But this was the Rebirth month and there was a bunch of #1,so a jump in sales was expected.I doubt that trend will continue thou.
If I remember right, June was the Rebirth Month. We're actually on the 2nd Month of Rebirth there. And I'm very sure judging from the speculated performance of Harley Quinn and All Star Batman and the lack of Civil War II Issues this month that trend might continue up till this month even and DC getting out more books. Plus, majority of those books are already at #3s and #4s and compared to pre-Rebirth. There aren't really much significant drops in sales, sure there's give and take a few thousand but there's nothing as drastic as say Iron Man's or Captain Marvel's sales which dropped by half at around issue #2. Heck, Titans actually rose from high 70K to 100K.
Now for the actual book themselves. I've been enjoying Superman a lot (Heck all of the Superman line if I'm honest. Even New Super-Man). Easily the weakest for me is Hitch's Justice League.
Though these talks about DC reaching the kid demographic... I guess depending on how JLAction does we might see something come up the horizon. DC's non-comic releases definitely has pulled in some fans into comics. I know a few people who read the Injustice Weekly Digital Comic mainly because they enjoyed the game and want to get caught up with the series. And while I do agree there's a real lack of all-ages friendly comics, I think it's to just to do with the current majority of people who actually buy/order comics, I doubt that DC or actually any company is willing to gamble that much customers just for a possible chance to gain a new demographic. I mean DC knows firsthand with how DC You bombed. Since we're also talking about all-ages comics. Whatever happened to Marvel Adventures? Marvel ticked off Darwyn Cooke bigtime when they left him out of that and now it's just gone? I remember reading it and it was pretty good. Just fun one-shot deal adventures featuring your favorite Marvel characters. Overall, coming from someone who really just got into comics a few years back, I really don't think it's a smart idea to just ignore your current demographic in favor of a new one that can possibly not even care for your product for various reasons(I mean you're not just competing with Marvel and other publishers here, you're competing with Video Games, Netflix, Toys, and a bunch of other crap), I can see there being a specific block of comics being dedicated to them like how Young Animal is supposed to be for the Alternative DC Comics, I remember there being a for-kids block of comics back then growing up. It was the Johnny DC Line and mostly featured comic tie-ins to Cartoon Network Shows (Which Boom and IDW are publishing right now so I doubt DC can bring those back) and of their own animated shows along with a few original stuff (like that Superfriends reboot and Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam) I can see that returning. Accessibility... I feel like that's more of a problem with Diamond and how there are really no Supermarkets or Local Bookstores that would really think to stock themselves now with comics. I mean there's always comixology, I've seen a few online ads. DC could always invest on making ads that would be considered eye catching for kids, DC has a pretty good track record on uploading their old comics on comixology (In fact I just finished up The Power of Shazam) and I know for a fact a lot of them would be considered pretty kid friendly, they just finished up uploading the entirety of their old Teen Titans Go! Comic (the comic tie-in of the original show), maybe they could try catching up fans of that new Teen Titans Go! Cartoon? I mean it has to have a pretty big viewer base seeing as how it fills up CN's schedule at times. It could get them interested with the more serious version of the team, it's definitely in the price range of something a parent would let a child have which is around $1 to $2 depending on how long they've been on comixology and if there's a sale (I mean sure $3 is cheaper than $4 but you know that's still too much, DC has comics at $1 on comixology they can definitely attract some new people by having them start out on the earlier cheaper comics)
Quote from: trebean on August 15, 2016, 09:31:21 PM
Though these talks about DC reaching the kid demographic... I guess depending on how JLAction does we might see something come up the horizon. DC's non-comic releases definitely has pulled in some fans into comics. I know a few people who read the Injustice Weekly Digital Comic mainly because they enjoyed the game and want to get caught up with the series. And while I do agree there's a real lack of all-ages friendly comics, I think it's to just to do with the current majority of people who actually buy/order comics, I doubt that DC or actually any company is willing to gamble that much customers just for a possible chance to gain a new demographic. I mean DC knows firsthand with how DC You bombed.
Right, their cross promotion has brought in SOME readers, but never enough, and most of them don't stay because there's not really anywhere to go once the thing that brought you in runs its course. I bought my niece JLU comics, but once she finished those, I couldn't give her anything else DC.
Yeah, it would definitely be a gamble, but at the same time, what is there really to risk? If they keep on in this fashion, eventually they'll cease to exist, at least as they are now. You know, you could build up to a full line of books little by little, but it would still take a concerted effort and a long range plan. If there's one thing that the Big Two have proven, it's that they have no idea what they're doing long range. Perhaps most importantly, any successful attempt to bring in new readers has got to put the books where kids are, as I've said. Just putting out a kid friendly book isn't enough, as kids aren't reading comics in the first place. You've got to penetrate the culture again, and that requires will and investment.
Quote from: trebean on August 15, 2016, 09:31:21 PM
Since we're also talking about all-ages comics. Whatever happened to Marvel Adventures? Marvel ticked off Darwyn Cooke bigtime when they left him out of that and now it's just gone? I remember reading it and it was pretty good. Just fun one-shot deal adventures featuring your favorite Marvel characters. Overall, coming from someone who really just got into comics a few years back, I really don't think it's a smart idea to just ignore your current demographic in favor of a new one that can possibly not even care for your product for various reasons(I mean you're not just competing with Marvel and other publishers here, you're competing with Video Games, Netflix, Toys, and a bunch of other crap), I can see there being a specific block of comics being dedicated to them like how Young Animal is supposed to be for the Alternative DC Comics, I remember there being a for-kids block of comics back then growing up. It was the Johnny DC Line and mostly featured comic tie-ins to Cartoon Network Shows (Which Boom and IDW are publishing right now so I doubt DC can bring those back) and of their own animated shows along with a few original stuff (like that Superfriends reboot and Billy Batson and the Magic of Shazam) I can see that returning.
See, that's just it. Marvel Adventures is a pretty perfect example of what I'm talking about. It was, overall, pretty good. It was even great in several spots. One of my favorite Fantastic Four comics ever was from the MA run on the team. They had, for a while, a whole subline of MA comics. They had MA Iron Man, MA Hulk, MA Spider-Man, MA Avengers, all kinds of books, as well as a grab-bag book. I've actually collected a lot of them because they're good, fun adventure stories without all the ugly baggage of modern comics. In many of the books, they even did exactly what I'd like to see them do with a new comic line, retell some of the coolest stories from the Silver Age, but tell them with modern sensibilities. The result was almost always enjoyable, other than a few grating elements in the portrayals where they were trying a bit too hard to be hip.
See, ideally, in pursuing a strategy like this, the Big Two wouldn't just ignore their current customers. They'd put out books that could just be enjoyed by a wider audience. If they phased in a new style of book and gradually phased out or downsized the current style, a transition could definitely work.
Also, I never knew that Darwyn Cooke had been interested in MA...my gosh, how amazing would that have been? I would have given my eye teeth to read a Cooke-run/drawn DCU title, but even a Marvel line would have been fantastic. He's actually the perfect candidate to be in charge of something like this. Too bad he's gone so soon, for this and many other reasons. :(
Quote from: trebean on August 15, 2016, 09:31:21 PM
Accessibility... I feel like that's more of a problem with Diamond and how there are really no Supermarkets or Local Bookstores that would really think to stock themselves now with comics. I mean there's always comixology, I've seen a few online ads. DC could always invest on making ads that would be considered eye catching for kids, DC has a pretty good track record on uploading their old comics on comixology (In fact I just finished up The Power of Shazam) and I know for a fact a lot of them would be considered pretty kid friendly, they just finished up uploading the entirety of their old Teen Titans Go! Comic (the comic tie-in of the original show), maybe they could try catching up fans of that new Teen Titans Go! Cartoon? I mean it has to have a pretty big viewer base seeing as how it fills up CN's schedule at times. It could get them interested with the more serious version of the team, it's definitely in the price range of something a parent would let a child have which is around $1 to $2 depending on how long they've been on comixology and if there's a sale (I mean sure $3 is cheaper than $4 but you know that's still too much, DC has comics at $1 on comixology they can definitely attract some new people by having them start out on the earlier cheaper comics)
Well, digital comics COULD save the industry, provided the content is there to support them and the advertising/cultural saturation does its job. Comixology could have done it, but Amazon's gutting it has really hurt the progress of the digital comics. We went from being able to buy a comic on our devices with one button press to having to go to the website and doing several more steps. That's not necessarily a huge deal, but it isn't helping things either.
As I keep saying though, you need a comprehensive approach. Just putting comics on that site, or just putting out an age friendly book, or just putting comics in grocery stores, none of those things is going to save the day by itself.
Benton,like I said before,you need to check out Mark Waids Fantastic Four.
On the topic of sales,I hope the trend continues because competition is good for buisness.And it might motivate Marvel to get their act together.Buuut it will probably just motivate them to ship more chromium,weapon etched,3D variant covers.
IIRC Jim Lee said on his Facebook that DC is planing and expansion on the Chinese market,so that would probably bring in more readers then any cross promotion.If DC actually goes thru with that;it doesnt sound like a cheap endevour.
Hitch pretty much tries to go for Warren Ellis-lite feel with JL.
Speaking of Cooke and DC,his Spirit was pretty good.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 15, 2016, 11:06:46 PM
Also, I never knew that Darwyn Cooke had been interested in MA...my gosh, how amazing would that have been? I would have given my eye teeth to read a Cooke-run/drawn DCU title, but even a Marvel line would have been fantastic. He's actually the perfect candidate to be in charge of something like this. Too bad he's gone so soon, for this and many other reasons. :(
Interested? Darwyn Cooke pitched the idea to Marvel! There's a reason why there's a severe lack of Darwyn Cooke in Marvel after the title debuted.
The conclusion to I am Gotham felt just a bit rushed.Alfred suiting up as Batman was awesome,thou.It was still a pretty good arc.
They really should have done a Hitman Rebirth.But JT Krul(being a moron) hated the character and didnt want to reintroduce him in Bloodlines(2).Say thanks to DC,kids.
Quote from: Spade on August 22, 2016, 05:30:34 AM
The conclusion to I am Gotham felt just a bit rushed.Alfred suiting up as Batman was awesome,thou.It was still a pretty good arc.
They really should have done a Hitman Rebirth.But JT Krul(being a moron) hated the character and didnt want to reintroduce him in Bloodlines(2).Say thanks to DC,kids.
Garth Ennis is writing "Sixpack and Dogwelder Hard Travelling Heroes" so there's still hope. It releases this week, and he's also writing Dick Dastardly and Muttley for DC's Hanna Barbera Line.
Yeah,I know,thats what gave me some hope.That,and Garth Ennis being hip again because of the Preacher tv show.
Another old complain,but why did they recycle Bloodlines of all things,WITHOUT the only character people like in the whole mess?Oh yeah,because Krul found him an overexposed character like Cable and Wolverine and didnt want to write him.In his own words.Which is pure BS.Outside of his own series,Tommy had maybe 3-4 apperences in other books.
I'm with Spade. The ending of I Am Gotham definitely did feel rushed. I also didn't like the revelation about how Gotham and Gotham Girl's powers work.
Supergirl Rebirth was pretty interesting, but now we've got yet another survivor of Krypton. Superman, Supergirl and Krypto should be it.
I guess that played out so they could collect Batman Rebirth and Batman 1-5 together in one volume.
Now we have Night of the Monster Men coming up.Strangly,thats one event Im okay with.Thou there was a mini series by Matt Wagner about Monster Men,so this also counts as reusing old ideas.
Speaking of which,looks like Hawkman/Adam Strange mini series has Rann/Thanagar war going on,again.
Anyone see the new solicits? New Talent Showcase looks neat, but I'd hardly call some of these new (especially the artists), more overlooked actually. Seems like Art Baltazar & Franco are doing a new All Ages Miniseries, Super Powers! (Which coincidentally, Tom Scioli is doing a Super Powers backup for one of the Young Animal Books). Superman #10 looks pretty sweet, Superman and son teams up with Batman and his son. Hopefully this finally leads into the new Supersons book.
Just to throw it out,Hellblazer #1 was pretty disappointing.
It is a sort of return to the original form,with John back in London,and a return of a few supporting characters.But it fails to really evoke any emotion.It kinda goes for some Delano-lite version,and pretty much fails at it.
Shoutouts are painfull and come down to: Hey,remember when?Remember Chas?Remember Mercury?Remember when we switched bodies so you can have sex?Remember your wife?Remember all those better stories we are trying to evoke to hide the fact this one is mediocre at best?
Quote from: Spade on August 23, 2016, 05:13:16 AM
I guess that played out so they could collect Batman Rebirth and Batman 1-5 together in one volume.
Now we have Night of the Monster Men coming up.Strangly,thats one event Im okay with.Thou there was a mini series by Matt Wagner about Monster Men,so this also counts as reusing old ideas.
Speaking of which,looks like Hawkman/Adam Strange mini series has Rann/Thanagar war going on,again.
Both of Wagner's mini-series were re-dos of Golden Age Batman stories. The Monk was from Detective Comics #31 and 32, and Professor Strange and the Monster Men were in Batman #1. (Both stories are in Batman Chronicles Volume 1.)
Okay,thats still the second modern reimagining.
Is the event actually going to happen?I havent see any news about it since it was announced.
Quote from: Spade on August 28, 2016, 05:19:53 AM
Okay,thats still the second modern reimagining.
Is the event actually going to happen?I havent see any news about it since it was announced.
It's already solicited. It's not much an event as it's a breather for the current creative teams since Steve Orlando is co-writing it. It's a 6 Issue Crossover between Batman, Detective Comics, and Nightwing (2 Issues a piece for all series). It's not much a modern re-imagining again of Batman and the Monster Men it's more or less a Dr Hugo Strange Arc since his Monster Men and his Monster Men serum has made appearances beyond those stories.
Quote from: trebean on August 29, 2016, 09:37:15 AM
Quote from: Spade on August 28, 2016, 05:19:53 AM
Okay,thats still the second modern reimagining.
Is the event actually going to happen?I havent see any news about it since it was announced.
It's already solicited. It's not much an event as it's a breather for the current creative teams since Steve Orlando is co-writing it. It's a 6 Issue Crossover between Batman, Detective Comics, and Nightwing (2 Issues a piece for all series). It's not much a modern re-imagining again of Batman and the Monster Men it's more or less a Dr Hugo Strange Arc since his Monster Men and his Monster Men serum has made appearances beyond those stories.
Okay,its a crossover,you know what I meant.
So I'm a little late in bringing this up, but that cliffhanger in Action Comics that made it seem like "Mr. Oz" was actually going to do something in the plot? Kinda a letdown. He does more in the issue than he has up to this point (which was to say, nothing) but still not much to talk about. Issue was still fun, current arc is over so the next one will focus on stuff that got downplayed in this arc to focus on fighting Doomsday, so I'm looking forward to that.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 29, 2016, 09:42:09 PM
So I'm a little late in bringing this up, but that cliffhanger in Action Comics that made it seem like "Mr. Oz" was actually going to do something in the plot? Kinda a letdown. He does more in the issue than he has up to this point (which was to say, nothing) but still not much to talk about. Issue was still fun, current arc is over so the next one will focus on stuff that got downplayed in this arc to focus on fighting Doomsday, so I'm looking forward to that.
I'm just excited that they're finally hopefully gonna answer who this new "Clark Kent" is, because that's the only plot thread that's keeping me interested in the book. I was never a huge fan of Jurgen's Superman.
Yeah, I've been looking forward to the answer to that for a while.
With a bit of delay on my part,Suicide Squad War Crimes was pretty good.Seeing it was pretty politically charged,i expected to see more talk about it.But I guess it doesn't count if nobody says Hail Hydra.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 31, 2016, 06:00:15 AM
Yeah, I've been looking forward to the answer to that for a while.
Welp, just read the latest Action Comics and I gotta say, I really hope that it's not gonna be this Clark Kent is another imperfect clone or something since the company he's tailing is literally called Geneticron as in Genetics. Anyway, does anyone here read Green Lanterns? Surprised since I really disliked Humphries run on Star Lord and his other Cosmic Work on Marvel but I'm loving the interaction and character development in this book, it's a pretty good intro to Simon Baz and Jessica which highlights their more positive characteristics. Also, New Super-Man! Loving this book, I just realized! Black Condor = Blue Condor, Ghost Woman = Phantom Lady, Woman With Solar Tech Who's Name I Forgot = The Ray?, they're the Freedom Fighters of China! I have no idea if this is just coincidence in name or if Yang really planned this all along.
Remember how in
Detective Comics Tim rewired those drones to go after him?
Spoiler
He survives.Because Mr Oz saved him.What exactly is the deal with this guy?
didnt really blow me away,but Im willing to give it another issue to see if its going anywhere.And is this in the DCU?I got the feeling its a complete reboot,but I cant really say.
The cover of Wonder Woman Rebirth #7 is an homage/rip-off of Conan the Avenger by Frank Frazetta.
^Bit of googling tells me its a homage.Just gender swaped.
Sixpack and Dogwelder #2 that was way funnier then it should have been.
John Constantine spends the whole issue complaining how he used to have his own impring,nice covers,top talents;but now he has a space helmet.And floats around on a silver board.And Spectre just needs to be seen to be believed.
Btw,if Clark Kent is now world famous;how come nobody connected him to Clark Smith?The guy who looks exactly like him and has the same first name?
Dammnit Spade, I haven't read this week's Action Comics yet and you just spoiled it for me.
I did maybe spoil Sixpack and Dogwelder,but AC?Clark was famous because it was revealed he was Superman(to the public) way back in the previous series.Truth story arc IIRC.And new Supermans last name is Smith,we know that since Lois and Clark.
I dont see whats the spoiler there.
My bad, I thought you were talking about the mystery Clark.
For the record, I didn't read Lois and Clark, and I did try to do some research and didn't find any information about Superman going by Clark Smith.
Sometimes its Smith,sometimes it White.That seems to vary.
Anyway,he still has the same name and face as a guy who is world famous as being Superman.
As far as fake names go,this is worst then Frank Rook.
Midnighter and Apollo #1 i thought Subway pirates were a cool reference,but thats barely the start.Old(really old) DC fans will get a kick out of this one.
Futures appearances of
Spoiler
Ali-Ka Zoom,December Graystone,Blackbriar Thorn,Felix Faust,Ra-Man,Kulak and Extrano.Its all a plot by Bendix to recruit Mawzir.Yeah the demon lord of guns from Hitman.
I noticed a lot of elements from Hitman in the Rebirth books.Could a sequel/reboot be in the works?
Quote from: Spade on October 05, 2016, 03:23:37 PM
Midnighter and Apollo #1 i thought Subway pirates were a cool reference,but thats barely the start.Old(really old) DC fans will get a kick out of this one.
Futures appearances ofSpoiler
Ali-Ka Zoom,December Graystone,Blackbriar Thorn,Felix Faust,Ra-Man,Kulak and Extrano.Its all a plot by Bendix to recruit Mawzir.Yeah the demon lord of guns from Hitman.
I only know like 2 of those characters, not counting Hitman and Bendix and the Subway Pirates.
^Pretty much the same,but a check of DC wiki tells me they are pretty old,and pretty obscure DC magic characters.So I thought somebody here must know them. :)
On a whim, I picked up Cyborg's series and it's pretty good. The writer is doing like an "Anatomy Lesson" thing here with Cyborg being revealed to possibly just be a recreation of his human self made by his father and he's really all robot. It's only like 3 issues in, last issue definitely picked up the pace with Kilg%re being reintroduced and the ending felt straight out of a Silver Age Comic.
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/12/dc-comics-crosses-banana-splits-flintstones-future-quest-space-ghost/ (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2016/12/12/dc-comics-crosses-banana-splits-flintstones-future-quest-space-ghost/)
DC titles will crossover with Hanna-Barbera titles.Thats pretty weird.
Call me when they do Herculoids-Doom Patrol......
^I dont think they are in the current lineup of HB comics published.
Quote from: GhostMachine on December 14, 2016, 06:13:27 PM
Call me when they do Herculoids-Doom Patrol......
Herculoids-Galaxy Trio?
To comment on the current Suicide Squad run- Im mostly here for Rob Williams(another 2000AD veteran) and Jim Lee-and they do a pretty good job.It opens up with a meeting between Amanda Waller and Obama,which is actually a pretty clever way to get the readers up to speed and say what they need to say.Makes you wonder how will the meeting with the new president go.Use of back-ups is a nice way to tell the characters backstories(and save Jim Lee from drawing 40 pages a month),but it also stretches the story to 8 issues,instead of the regular 5-6.And it does have a lot of stuff going on,General Zod(KNEEL BEFORE ZOD),Russian version of the squad,prison riot,various relations between the characters;but there is plenty of time to sort it out in the future stories.I hope.
Which brings me to Justice League VS Suicide Squad #1 Batman being moral about the whole thing is a bit odd after the events of his own book.And maybe ungrateful.its pretty funny that it makes a big deal out of the villains reveal,considering we saw who it was in the previews.At the back of every DC issue in the past 2 weeks.But okay,it makes more sense then your average Marvel event,and Faboks artwork is pretty good.He comes pretty close to Jim Lee in style.
Quote from: Spade on December 21, 2016, 03:54:53 PM
To comment on the current Suicide Squad run- Im mostly here for Rob Williams
Huh. I didn't know DC had a habit of bringing back world-famous comedians to write their comics. Though considering just how he went out, Suicide Squad is a lot more appropriate than one may first think. ;)
ROBIN Williams.This is ROB Williams,British writer.Longtime writer for the Galaxys Greates Comic,pretty much the go-to Judge Dredd guy(when John Wagner isnt around),author of Low Life(collected now in 3 volumes as Mega City Undercover,so go get that,people),Asylum,Family and
Cla$$war.And a lot of other stuff.
Hey guys. Jonesing for your next hit of Watchmen in DC Rebirth? Well guess what it's a crossover now.
DC's doing a four-issue crossover between Flash and Tom King's Batman based around The Comedian's Button. (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/batman-and-the-flash-explore-mystery-watchmen-conn/1100-6446877/) Oh DC, you always want all of the money, don't you.
On the one hand: Yay, they're finally getting around to one of the Watchmen plots we've been watching the longest to learn more about. On the other hand, in order to read it you're going to have buy several issues of Tom King's Batman.
I hope there will be special lenticular covers.Oh good,there are.
Titans have been teasing "Manhattan" for a while now,so something will eventualy happen there too.
And apparently,BC has some private messages between Diane Nelson and Dan Didio where they brainstorm the event of 2017: DC Universe VS the Watchmen.
Which does sound like something they would do.
On a different note, Dan Abnett's Aquaman run is just plain excellent. He's doing a fantastic job fleshing out Arthur's world and setting, and his character work has bee really strong. He's gone a little overboard with the powers, but he's just following in Johns' footsteps on that score. Anyone else reading it?
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/137176-dc-comics-revamps-affordable-comics-act-to-include-single-payer-system-for-digital-codes.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/137176-dc-comics-revamps-affordable-comics-act-to-include-single-payer-system-for-digital-codes.html)
DC raises the price of 15 of their monthly titles to 3,99.Reset the counter.
Good news is,Dan Jurgens is actually doing something with the characters from Multiversity.So kudos there.
Unless they're also increasing the page count, that's not cool.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 18, 2017, 03:36:47 PM
Unless they're also increasing the page count, that's not cool.
I quote:
The increase of a dollar includes download codes for a matching digital copy in the affected comic books.So when you buy a comic,you also get a code for the digital copy of the same comic.I fail to see any benefit in that.
So you can read it on your media device. Like, who wants to touch those old paper things anyway?
Me, I'm and old f... ogey and don't see the benefit in it either... unless the digital copy has extras.
But if I wanted the digital copy,I wouldn't be buying the physical one.
Now,maybe that could have been justified if the code was for a different comic,but as it stands;you would be paying extra for something you don't want/already have.
Agreed. Entirely, entirely agreed. If I wanted it digital, I'd have bought it digital.
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 18, 2017, 05:13:32 PM
Agreed. Entirely, entirely agreed. If I wanted it digital, I'd have bought it digital.
Me too.
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/137183-dc-dynamite-teaming-up-for-batman-proto-batman-crossover.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/137183-dc-dynamite-teaming-up-for-batman-proto-batman-crossover.html)
Im sure this will interest some people,Batman will be teaming up with The Shadow.Written by Scott Snyder and Steve Orlando.
Neat. Scott Snyder's a good Batman writer so that'll probably turn out good. Not sure if I'll end up reading it, as I'm not really a fan of the Shadow.
So I came up with what I think would be a pretty kickass Elseworlds the other day and I figured I might as well post it up here. Here goes:
'In another time and another place, the Earth has been devastated in a nuclear war centuries ago, and is only now just starting to pick up the pieces. In spite of this, hope springs eternal, and a kindly old couple have managed to hold on to that despite there seemingly being no reason to do so. As such, when they find a strange rocket carrying an infant in the middle of nowhere, rather than leaving him to his fate, they take him in and raise him as their own, with the boy growing up and learning to be the best he can be even in the worst of times. And so when the boy comes of age and discovers the true limits of his abilities, he decides to use his powers to wander the wastelands, help who he can, and try to bring some light to the darkness; to save the world from itself. But the question is, as the Man Of Steel may find himself asking time and time again during his travels, is it a world worth saving? (The answer: Yes. Yes it is.) '
Whaddya' think? :)
Sounds better than quite a few I've seen.
Spoiler
For the second story you could have him run into a mysterious woman from a lost tribe of Amazons and a tactical genius who is searching for the bandits who killed his parents.
Quote from: daglob on January 23, 2017, 10:31:23 PM
Sounds better than quite a few I've seen.
Spoiler
For the second story you could have him run into a mysterious woman from a lost tribe of Amazons and a tactical genius who is searching for the bandits who killed his parents.
Thanks. :) Hm. Maybe I should do something with that...
Spoiler
And then in the third story, after they all start traveling together as a kickass trio, they discover the whereabouts of the bandits that killed our genius' parents. They've recently joined with a burgeoning movement to create a new Empire set to bring civilization back to the world while trampling the little people under its' heel, and it just so happens to be led by a certain bald mastermind who's even more of a genius than the trios' own...
There is an interview with Warren Ellis(bit of a Rasputin vibe there) in todays issues;and Im even more excited about The Wild Storm now.First issue out on February 15.
In other news DC put on hold all of the announced collections that included works of Gerard Jones.Understandable,but probably disappointing for a lot of people.
In short on here on Rebirth imo. Green Lantern books have fallen a long way for what used to be my mainstays. The adage " if it isn't broke don't fix it " should have been applied here, especially to a property that was selling like hotcakes and always spawning several spin-offs. The Superman books are some of the more interesting and the Bat books are pretty good reads. JL isn't doing it for me. Suicide Squad is one of the more 2-dimensional runs to be sure. Teen Titans has promise, too early to say. I love Doom Patrol but if I learned anything about this series is it lives up to it's name and will be cancelled before I get to know it so I'm not getting too attached. Shade is my top DC read right now. Flash is pretty good every month. Above all else it knows how to relate the characters personal struggles between the action and give me a reason to care what happens. Much of the rest I can take or leave. Not bad nor compelling. Overall better than that last blip of a tagline but not getting me up early to my LCS either. Lastly, I think the idea of chasing the Watchmen mythos is an interesting concept on paper but in the long run a bad move because there is no way DC will be able to escape the notion that it's regurgitated and playing on popularity. That isn't to say it couldn't churn out good reading between the pages but I think it will end up going down as a grey mark when the smoke clears.
Wild Storm #1 was pretty good.There is a LOT of introductions and a LOT of characters for one issue.But all things considered,a pretty promising start.
We have several options of who Clark Kent might be.Im betting on Magog.
Quote from: Spade on March 03, 2017, 10:45:02 AM
We have several options of who Clark Kent might be.Im betting on Magog.
Which one? The awesome Kingdom Come one or the kinda-lame JSA one?
Im guessing Kingdom Come one.Or a third one?
I'm not sure. Based on future solicits there's two candidates I don't think will be the real one. Magog might make the most sense story-wise.
Pt. 1 was a decent start to the crossover IMO. The art was notably different but that's because before now I was only reading Action.
That reminds me, I had a comment on last week's Action Comics that I meant to post but forgot to.
2 milkshakes, 4 apple pies and what I assume is sort kind of strudel? I eat more junk food than I probably should and I don't think I'd want to eat that much. Farm boy sure eats a lot.
I haven't made any guesses and am sort of letting myself get surprised. I'm assuming Convergence plays into this whole thing whereas but who knows. Also noting solicits there's a cover where Clark is opening his suit to reveal a specific Superman emblem, that being the one from Death Of Superman. I have to figure that's a hint.
http://www.dccomics.com/comics/action-comics-2016/action-comics-975 (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/action-comics-2016/action-comics-975)
After the Flash crossover,the next guest at Batman titles will be Swamp Thing.Do we need Tom Kings take on Swamp Thing?
Quote from: Spade on March 06, 2017, 06:07:01 AM
After the Flash crossover,the next guest at Batman titles will be Swamp Thing.Do we need Tom Kings take on Swamp Thing?
Unless Tom King is an impossible anagram for Alan Moore, then not really, no. ;) (JK. Mostly.)
Judging from all the hype about him,somebody at DC seems to think so.
IMO the last good Swamp Thing run was by Mark Millar(seriously,it was great). And don't even get me started on the Brightest day.
Looks like DC is doing another crossover:
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/02/16/dc-comics-looney-tunes-theyve-done-hanna-barbera/
And a few more here:
http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/dclooney-tunes-crossover-update-1859479/#33
Like asking if we need a new Robocop movie. The company pays the copyright and the franchise pulled in good numbers in a time. We'll see anything that sold iterated over again for some years. Like for example how Animal Man, Doom Patrol, X-Force and Cloak & Dagger pop out of the gopher hole again and again. Thus will Swamp Thing. It's easier to recognize the business constants as tropes and rather than boggle oneself about them, use them as a measuring stick to recognize either original content or well done traditional art.
Revival is not my problem.Tom King is my problem.
So surprisingly, no one posted about this yet. Fake Clark Kent is....
Spoiler
MR. MXYZSPTLK! Can't say I was really expecting that, but when reading the comic the clues were certainly there, I'm actually pretty disappointed in myself that I didn't figure it out in advance.
I think this might be the only comic I've ever read featuring Mxy. I've never been a fan of the character, except when he was voiced by GILBERT GOTTFRIED in Superman TAS. I also liked the oldschool cartoon look they gave him in that show, which is replicated in a college image in this comic.
Speaking of which, I really enjoyed the backup story (written by Paul Dini). My disappointment though, is that Ian Churchill's art looks a lot better when he's doing a spot on imitation of other artist's styles instead of his own.
So like I said I would,I got around to
Justice League of America #1-2.And seeing how disappointing Hitches JL is,is this one better?TBH,Im not sure,maybe?
Anyhow,Batman gathered a bunch of CW characters and Lobo to form his own Justice League.Why,exactly?Reis does a great job on the artwork.Orlando does a mediocre job on the writing.
Extremists,the group based on Marvel villains,invade this dimension.For reason they are not so sure about themselves.They have a new member based on Green Goblin.Which makes sense.And then it gets weird.
Spoiler
Lord Havok threatens to kill Ryan Choi and Batman offers his life in exchange.You think Batman is bluffing and planing a double cross?No,he really goes with that.But good thing that Diehard turns against the other Extremists...and then the bad guys teleport away.From a fight they were wining.To occupy a fictional country that the JLA now has to infiltrate.So that went from Crime Syndicate to Outsiders/Suicide Squad in half an issues.
Just found out one of my favorite lesser-known artists, Stjepan Sejic, has gotten an Aquaman gig.
Some sample images for ya.
http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/just-some-seaside-stuff-660676719
http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/so-i-discovered-i-really-like-mera-665933484
Isnt he the guy who does softcore porn webcomics?
A coule, but he's also done Rat Queens, Death Vigil, and Switch (the Witchblade spinoff that is surprisingly less porny than the original)
Plus one of my all time favorite Wonder Woman drawings: link here (http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/just-wondering-splurt-bwahahahahahahahahah-419873645)
Quote from: Glitch Girl on March 22, 2017, 07:28:26 PM
A coule, but he's also done Rat Queens, Death Vigil, and Switch (the Witchblade spinoff that is surprisingly less porny than the original)
Plus one of my all time favorite Wonder Woman drawings: link here (http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/just-wondering-splurt-bwahahahahahahahahah-419873645)
Holy crap, I've actually seen this guys work before! I never knew his name, but that Wonder Woman piece is definitely one that I've seen before and it's one of my favorite depictions as well.
That Mera drawing is beautiful! wow!
EDIT: And this one, too! This was always hilarious to me: http://nebezial.deviantart.com/art/daily-dose-of-stupid-and-obvious-451328123
*cough and removes the dust and spiderwebs from her corner*
uhmm ahem... hi... long time no see and no talk. *waves around*
After pretty much quitting comics with New 52, Rebirth brought me back (Even hunted down and completed Convergence and some stories relevant to new continuity like Lois & Clark mini). I have to say, Rebirth is really doing it for me, for the most part.
Aquaman is just fantastic, not only the focus on Arthur and Mera, but the supporting cast is pretty solid, unlike other books.
Green Arrow started a bit rocky, but have quickly become one of the strongest books of the whole rebirth.
Nightwing, was good, but as soon as he went to Blüdhaven the title just took on a new strength
The Superman titles are a real delight so far... I recently took on re reading ALL the Superman titles from 86 to 2010... I'm currently at 93... and the Rebirth titles just feel like I got my old friend back. It is something quite beyond words, really. I really love to see Clark and Lois dealing with parenthood, something I would have love to see more for other characters (Ideally, for me... let ALL characters grow old... I mean by now the classic JLA lineup should be between their 50s and 60 and the First Titans generation in their mid 30s as main heroes... but that is another discussion)
Batman... I am not happy with this title... some ideas are ok... but overall it is just a big disappointment. I don't care about Brawler Supreme Batman... I want the Detective one, I want the one who NOT ALWAYS won... the one who WAS NOT PREPARED FOR EVERYTHING, but had to stumble first and THEN come back prepared... I want the Batman that felt like EVERY victim was his fault for not being able to save them... not this detached figure that seemingly feels nothing at all.
Detective Comics is interesting, specially the way they handled Steph... god... I was cheering her on when she tongue lashed Bruce. <3 Steph! Glad to see Cass... but I rather have her as Batgirl. A bit puzzled by the way they are redeeming someone like Clayface but refuse to even acknowledge how other characters have progressed beyond the term villain. Once again the need to keep a status quo ends up hurting the characters and the stories. Long ago we got Riddler, Two Face and even Ivy either recovering, working a (semi) honest job, or working alongside a team of heroes... and suddenly... boop... all reset.
Batgirl and Batgirl & Birds of Prey... Batgirl title started to take a hold on me a lot more after the Ivy issue (That was a pretty fun story as well) I'm till not over the de aging of Barbara done by the Burnside run... but seems we are stuck with that. Love that in the annual they are trying to rekindle the legendary friendship between Babs and Kara. Hopefully we'll see more of Alysia as well. Regarding the Birds of Prey... It is not a bad book but it is missing something. Not a fan of the new oracle either.
Blue Beetle has not been excellent but quite good, and one of my dreams has become true... Ted Kord acting as a mentor for Jaime. My 2 favorite Beetles together!!!
New Superman. The title I was most skeptical at first, turned out to be one of the strongest completely new entries. It took till issue 4 to completely grab me but they avoided ALL the pits I feared it would fall into, and has only become a strongest title afterwards. I hope we get to see a bit more of the Great Ten too.
Both Green Lantern titles are entertaining to me. Really really love Jessica... I do get to identify with her way too much, cause we both ahve to deal with quite similar struggles and it is handled really well.
Titans is another love letter to me... I love these characters, I love that they recovered this bond of friendship and that we have Wally back!! (Now if we could only get Barry to sacrifice himself and then a Wally/Wally teamup..)
The Flash is a pretty cool title as well. I'll always keep my stance that Barry should have remained dead (Same for Hal for that matter) In my view, the Legacy moved on (Doesn't mean we can't have MORE Barry adventures, just set them in their proper time) But despite that opinion, it is a pretty good book. Considering Barry started this whole emss in universe... I d feel he may have to end it...
Teen Titans. This is a mixed bag to me. I love some of the thigns being done but I just can't get pass some of the things... De aging Gar, Starfire and Raven is just a crummy move. Raven and Starfire should be with the other Titans and same age bracket (Not a highschooler like Raven on her mini) And furthermore... either of these 3 should be the proper leaders of the team, instead of that unlikable brat Damian. There is also the problem that... with Wally making people remember... then Raven, Gar and Starfire will get to remember being older, and what will happen with Victor once he remembers being with the Titans before?
Justice League... ehhh not good. This is one of that just does not do it for me. The storytelling is bland, they are also stepping on the toes of the other creative teams by messing with parts of the mythos of the characters... and seems to focus way too much on Batman and Superman... They already have plenty of titles to be showcased, we need to see the roster expand and shift focus to characters without a solo title run, and get a better writer as well.
Suicide Squad, started quite bland, but after the JL vs SS crossover things have picked up quite nicely, finally. The current story is very interesting and seems they have become more comfortable with the characters.
Deathstroke. Not an easy book... quite the contrary, really... it does not pull punches and gives very good interlocking stories. Priest is doing a wonderful job here.
Cyborg is ok, but the whole machine or human seems to have been told many other times before with him.
Harley... yeah no... this is... ok the stories can be entertaining, but can someone tell how come she is both here and prisoner on Belle Reeve at the same time? Thank you. And why all her "stories" feel like a discount Deadpool wannabe type of storytelling? Harley has a lot more potential and she is being wasted and overexposed for this zany title, imho.
Wonder Woman is one of my highlights as well. Just everything about it makes me love the title more.
JLA: is just starting, but shaping up pretty interesting so far. Still a couple of points here. Why is Lobo here? Sorry but genocidal maniac is not a heroic char in my books... (He fits way more with LEGION and the villainous Vril Dox II) I think Frost striving for redemption IS an interesting thing... and then the sore thumb ... (yes, even worse than Lobo). Why is Batman here as well? *sighs* I used to like Batman (way more when he was Dick, i might add) but this is a character that has had DECADES of overexposure. I do hope the rumors of a switcheroo there are true.
Supergirl and Superwoman are both fun titles. Don't think there is much left for Superwoman now, considering the events of Superman Reborn... but I would love to be proven wrong. Love the many [expletive deleted] characters appearing here, but they need to be shown a bit more. Supergirl... after seeing pre crisis Kara a few times, I just wish they had managed to bring THAT Kara back instead of this one... Even if i like her stories, she will always feel like not living up to her true potential due to that.
Regarding the minis: They have been/are fun
Apollo / Midnighter was really fun to read, brought back some old characters and redeemed one of the worst stereotypical characters made in the 80s, giving him a great presence. Gregorio was simply fantastic on his brief appearance. I still think these 2 should not be on the main Universe but on an alt Earth (There is no Effing way they can go around killing the way they used to and not become a target for the many super teams around... seriously)
Death of Hawkman was really good in my opinion. Despite the name the real star here was Adam Strange (Who can say no to Adam Strange, really?) Pretty good story with some nice twist here and there. The epilogue with this week's special meeting the Quest family just was the icing of the cake.
Captain Atom. Cary Bates is back writing Nate... and it shows the love he has for the character. Issue 2 was the highlight so far, but it is shaping up to be one of the best things out of Rebirth so far. Finally seeing the Nathaniel Adam i loved from the original run of Bates in late 80s
Ok... that was a lot of rambling.
Also, I strongly recommend Stjepan's Sunstone. As someone who has been on that lifestyle for a while, it just read way too true, and the way he gives life to characters and dialogue is a wonderful treat.
Now... I have to keep cleaning my corner here... so much dust and webs still around...
Finally buckled down and read the Titans and Teen Titans books, the former being the first DC book since the Aquaman marriage debacle I actually paid money for... and I found them to both be really, really enjoyable. Teen Titans is a bit weaker, since unlike Titans it didn't have as strong a start (the opening arc is basically just a Damian Wayne story... which is fine, but it failed to really take advantage of the characters it has) nor is there as clear of a plan in place for long term development... but I also like elements of the cast a bit more, since they feel more fresh.
Real quick, I want to respond to a few of the Baroness' comments.
Spoiler
First, I think there's some understandable confusion about the nature of Wally and the changes to history. It was established in both Titans Hunt AND Titans proper that while this Wally DOES recall the life of his pre-n52 counterpart because of the speed force, he's actually a time-displaced version of the new-52's original Wally West... The "Tenth Titan" who was present during the fight with Mr Twister which caused the Titans to erase the memories of their version of the team from history. The memories they have are from THAT timeline... as seen from the fact that every flashback features the N52 costumes rather than the pre-flashpoint ones. Victor, Garth, and Koriand'r were not a part of that team as far as we know, and are therefore not subject to the same mind-fixing that Wally gave the others.
That being said, the "deaging" is not something unique to this version of the Teen Titans either. Prior to even the reboot, Raven had been attending high school as "Rachel Roth" due to being reborn in a teenage body. And Garth... well, he's Garth. The only one that seems "deaged" is maybe Starfire, but she is also clearly the eldest in the group, and any "de-aging" on her part could be due to the artist rather than any intent to make her younger. All the comic says is that she's "young" like the others, which could refer to a 25 year old woman.
As for Damian being the leader... we don't know that he really is yet. He fell into that role because the opening arc was about him, but aside from him saying he is we don't really see the team respecting him like they would a team leader. Aqualad might end up filling that slot once he's an actual member.
Just so you dont get too relaxed,there will be a summer event.Dark Days.Something about Batman an Nth metal?Be afraid.
Well, if Hawkman is dead for now, then there might be a hunk of Nth metal hanging around, and since Bats is nothing by dark these days... you are probably right, we should be afraid.
I have a feeling Hawkman could come back in this event. :unsure:
C'mon, anyone who ever died could come back.
If they thought there was money in it (not always a bad thing, but is the reason that, hey, look, there's Wolverine)
Quote from: daglob on April 04, 2017, 02:50:30 PM
C'mon, anyone who ever died could come back.
If they thought there was money in it (not always a bad thing, but is the reason that, hey, look, there's Wolverine)
Well,except Jean Grey ironically. :rolleyes:
Thou,this would set a record for the shortest death.But I think Hawkman also died in Justice League Canada,so...
Well, one of their characters is called Resurrection Man...
I thought Jean did come back; that the Phoenix who died was an alien critter. Although, I guess she could have died five or six times since then...
You realize this is just going to motivate me to complain how they need to bring Hitman back? :)
Quote from: The_Baroness on March 31, 2017, 08:03:53 PM
Also, I strongly recommend Stjepan's Sunstone. As someone who has been on that lifestyle for a while, it just read way too true, and the way he gives life to characters and dialogue is a wonderful treat.
Now... I have to keep cleaning my corner here... so much dust and webs still around...
Must agree with Baroness, though would say that you need to be over 18 years old due to the sexual content within. The story is truly great and heartwarming! Would like to see one of the characters go a little further on the "curve" into what some may consider the "darker" section of the lifestyle but that's just my personal thing. Was glad he also showed how some become obsessed with climbing the curve and how it can turn bad though..very truthful.
Hey, look at that; folks are talking about DC Comics! :lol:
I'm several months behind, so take caveat emptor:
I'm avoiding almost all modern mainstream comics because, even when a story is good, it's taking place in a world that I find toxic these days. Nevertheless, I am reading Aquaman, and I have been incredibly impressed by Dan Abnett's run. He immediately righted the ship after Cullen Bunn's aggressively mediocre arc, and he has been routinely hitting it out of the park. When Parker was taken off the book, I honestly didn't see any way I'd be happy with the comic unless he was brought back, and while I'd still like to see him return to the character in the future, I'm in absolutely no hurry now, which is about as high praise as I can give Abnett considering how much I loved Parker's run. I think Abnett's individual stories aren't necessarily quite as good as Parker's, but he's got a wonderful grasp of the character and the work he's doing on Atlantis and Arthur's supporting cast is some of the best I've ever seen. I was never really happy with the way Johns portrayed the undersea world, and Abnett is creating something much more wondrous than he did. It feels like a much more fully realized setting, and the expansion of the supporting cast is definitely necessary. I said of Parker's run that he was writing some of the best Aquaman comics ever, and that was true. How wonderful that Abnett is doing the same? There are weaknesses, like some of the interactions between Aquaman and Superman, but they are greatly overshadowed by the strengths. I love how Abnett paints the relationship between Arthur and Mera, and I even like how he's using Murk. By the way, I've probably said this before, but I would read the HECK out of a spinoff series that just explores the adventures of some supporting cast folks, like the Drift or something. It's a shame that could never survive. Now, I just want Abnett to go ahead and get the royal couple hitched so we can do away with their not being married, because that still galls me more than I can say. Anyway, if you're not reading Aquaman and you have any interest in the character, you really should be.
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 04, 2017, 10:59:08 PM
Hey, look at that; folks are talking about DC Comics! :lol:
More like people are talking about an S&M webcomic,but to each his own...
Superman #20Batman doesnt eat pie. :lol:
For the next Action Comics arc,I have only one thing to say:
Spoiler
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!
(http://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/styles/covers192x291/public/comic-covers/2017/03/AC_Cv981_58c81f6424f012.76198438.jpg?itok=7w8yOcHk)
I was ignoring that part, but folks WERE also talking about DC. :P
You were ignoring me, Benton?!? Hrmph...
Haha, no easy feat! :lol:
Batman and Bane sure spent a lot of issues growling at and punching each other bloody. Glad that arc is done. Enjoying the Superman family of books a lot, hope they don't break the pace. Wild Storm, Doom Patrol and Shade The Changing Girl are my tops from DC right now.
Previews.I do admire the fact they are advertising Dark Days with "Darkness is coming to DC universe".Like everything so far has been ponies and rainbows.
Like,this is really dark,father muckers!
On the brighter side we have Lobo/Roadrunner,Martian Manhunter/Melvin the Martian,Batman/Elmer Fudd,Jonah Hex/Yosemite Sam and so on.
Quote from: Spade on April 10, 2017, 07:59:31 AM
I do admire the fact they are advertising Dark Days with "Darkness is coming to DC universe". Like everything so far has been ponies and rainbows.
That's my favorite thing I've read today. :lol:
I guess its a better tagline the: Somebody will lose an arm and become impotent. :|
Are those two seperate people or just one losing an arm and turning impotent? Would be more...ahem...interesting if it was one losing an arm while the other goes impotent in some "action" scene. :-P
Roy Harper.Both.Rise of Arsenal.
And yet,thats only half as dumb as Olivers trial.
I thought he had already lost and arm. Which Earth are we talking about anyway? Y'know, this didn't used to confuse me before they "fixed" it the first time.
This is back in '08/'09,so two universes ago.Or 3?Or one?
Im saying that if they really mean to out-dark themselves,it wont be easy.
Maybe they are trying to make the DC Comic Universe the same as the DC Cinematic Universe. In that case, ol' Zod had better watch out.
Or it might be another "bad future" event and solicitation writers cant come up with anything good.Not that they ever did.
Roy losing an arm actually was first depicted in an infamous Justice League miniseries you may have heard of called "Cry For Justice". It was then show how exactly he lost his arm (as it was originally something that happened offscreen) in Rise of Arsenal. His daughter also died in Cry for Justice. This version of Roy, the pre-Flashpoint version, got his daughter back during a Convergence tie-in.
As for this Dark Days thing, I can chime in and say I don't think they've marketed it well at all. Other than the creative team, that's its an event comic, and that it features the Joker, I have no flipping idea what this thing is, which is really hurting my interest in it. Which is a shame because the creative team includes Scott Snyder and Greg Capulo, whose Batman I've really enjoyed. This reminds me of how the solicits for Astonishing X-Men straight up wouldn't tell you what the arc or issue was about other than to tell you that this issue is "hot" and you "don't want to miss it". It's like having a comic marketed by J.J. Abrams (don't even think about it, Marvel and DC)
I think the mystery man thru the Superman titles is the Time Trapper and with the different references to the Legion of Super Heroes. The Emerald Empress reference to Saturn Girl, Cyborg meeting Brainiac 5 in the future.
Maybe, but 1) He's been talking about some other important guy (probably Dr. Manhattan) 2) He looks enough like the Time Trapper that the only reason to keep it a surprise is to make people think he's someone else (Ozymandias, besides which, why "Mr Oz" if it's not Ozy) and 3) The Time Trapper has a tradition of being another established character under the robes (such as Superboy Prime in Legion of 3 Worlds) and according to the DC Wiki, Brainiac 5 theorized that he is a "sentient alternate timeline against ours" and that his true history and his identity changes as the DC timeline does (which actually would kinda fit with the trippy developments at the end of the Superman crossover). The brilliant part about it being the Time Trapper is you can then do a second reveal when he takes off his hood and turns out to be some other pre-established character.
...so confusing on Roy.
...And such a cop out with the Time guy...
...And why I avoid most of the big two's current comics. Give me Astro City...
Quote from: Silver Shocker on April 11, 2017, 02:26:18 PM
why "Mr Oz" if it's not Ozy
Hes Australian?
Surprising how many people are bored with the big two,but never do anything about it.Read 2000ad,you ignorant Yanks.;)
Quote from: Deaths Jester on April 11, 2017, 03:11:27 PM
...so confusing on Roy.
...And such a cop out with the Time guy...
...And why I avoid most of the big two's current comics. Give me Astro City...
Exactly. Astro City is what pretty much all comics should be.
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 11, 2017, 04:13:06 PM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on April 11, 2017, 03:11:27 PM
...so confusing on Roy.
...And such a cop out with the Time guy...
...And why I avoid most of the big two's current comics. Give me Astro City...
Exactly. Astro City is what pretty much all comics should be.
I haven't read Astro City, but I
have read Busiek's Avengers, which IMO is also what all comics should be. The man's a freaking genius, is what he is.
Anyhoo, the only Superhero-ish comic I really read nowadays is Ian Flynn's Sonic the Hedgehog. You laugh, but even though it's based on a videogame character who isn't exactly known for gripping yarns, Flynn's managed to turn the comic into an action-packed tour-de-force with a surprising amount of character and heart. And there are barely any Shocking Twists ™ or big events to be seen, save for the occasional crossover with the Megaman comic. (Also written by Flynn and also awesome.) And when there are Shocking Twists ™, they're surprisingly pretty well done and actually freaking matter. But at its' heart, it's just pure fun, and one of the most enjoyable modern comics I've read in a while. (And has been for the last 11 years.)
And he's also apparently written some issues for IDW's TMNT, which I've heard nothing but good things about. So that has to count for something.
If you wanted confusing,I could recount the trial in Fall of Green Arrow.
And I dont was to sound like a hipster,but you guys kinda have limited tastes in comics.
Kk, man, you really need to read his Astro City then. You'll absolutely love it! Yeah, Busiek is one of my favorite creators, period. About the only thing of his I ever read that I didn't love was his Aquaman, and it was still good, despite its flaws.
Wow, that's quite a sales pitch for a Sonic comic. Color me intrigued. If those show up on Comixology Unlimited or something one of these days, I may very well give them a shot. Thanks!
IDW's TMNT is fantastic, every month, one of the best comics I've ever read.
Spade, that's right; I only like good comics. :lol:
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 11, 2017, 04:13:06 PM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on April 11, 2017, 03:11:27 PM
...so confusing on Roy.
...And such a cop out with the Time guy...
...And why I avoid most of the big two's current comics. Give me Astro City...
Exactly. Astro City is what pretty much all comics should be.
What I really love about Astro City is the fact that the city and the people there are what drives the stories, not the super heroics and such. The heroes are portrayed as real people with real worries and they age too, not just some super-powered/mystical cutout. Talking about aging in Astro, I already miss seeing Crackerjack and Quarrel running around in the comic.....
Yeah, the stories are always, ALWAYS character driven. Now, don't get me wrong, I love a bit, grand idea driven story every once in a while, and comics can often pull off plot-driven yarns, provided they don't exist at the expense of characters. Nonetheless, the best stories, in this as in all mediums, tend to be character driven. The setting of Astro City itself is every bit as endearing as the characters. You know what I really loved (relatively) recently? Seeing the sidekick grow into the role of the Confessor. That was such a wonderful, absolutely delightful surprise story, as was the return of Steeljack. It says something that here, years and years in, he's still telling some of the best stories he's ever told. It also says something, and something that modern comics desperately need to learn, that he manages to do it with almost entirely stand-alone stories.
Yeah, though Quarrel and Crackerjack's story was a little problematic for me, it was darn gripping, and I liked the both of them, though her more than him. :)
I loved how they brought Steeljack back and kept him as a PI. Showed that even though he was a villain at one time in his life, he changed for the better and is helping out the common folk. Only thing I didn't like about that though was it was very similar to the first time Steeljack appeared...but it was still new feeling because of the characters introduced.
Yeah, I suppose a noire feel require certain plot elements, but I had a real blast reading that story. It made me so happy to see him turning his life around, and I'm a sucker for a happy ending. :)
Quote from: Spade on April 11, 2017, 05:58:00 PM
If you wanted confusing,I could recount the trial in Fall of Green Arrow.
And I dont was to sound like a hipster,but you guys kinda have limited tastes in comics.
Hey! I like all sorts of Golden, Silver, and Bronze Age comics.
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 11, 2017, 06:00:24 PM
Kk, man, you really need to read his Astro City then. You'll absolutely love it! Yeah, Busiek is one of my favorite creators, period. About the only thing of his I ever read that I didn't love was his Aquaman, and it was still good, despite its flaws.
Wow, that's quite a sales pitch for a Sonic comic. Color me intrigued. If those show up on Comixology Unlimited or something one of these days, I may very well give them a shot. Thanks!
I know. I keep meaning to read it, but for whatever reason, I've never gotten around to it. I guess that's something I should work on.
As for Sonic, if you do pick it up, getting started is a bit... tricky. See, the thing about it is that, just like with DC, there's more than one continuity to choose from. The original continuity, lasting all the way from 1993-2013, doesn't have much to do with the games aside from using most of the characters, but given that you probably haven't played a single one of them, that shouldn't be a problem. But around 2010, one of the old writers, Ken Penders, got it in his head that the characters he created for it should be his and his alone, which wasn't helped by the fact that that one of the games, Sonic Chronicles, more or less took characters and concepts wholesale from his Sonic comics and filed the serial numbers off. Because of this, he filed a lawsuit that no-one but him could use his characters and won, forcing Archie (who publish the comic, natch,) to do a reboot. The result was a new continuity that was based much more closely off of the games, only with the main cast members that were never in the games still being a part of things.
Now, you might say that you might as well just go with the old continuity, since for someone who hasn't played the games, it might be much easier to understand, but prior to Ian Flynn coming onboard with #160 back in 2006, (and he's stayed onboard ever since,) the comic wasn't exactly what you'd call good. It had it's moments, but between characters with lots of potential being vastly underused, mediocre (and sometimes just plain BAD, especially where Penders was involved,) plots and storytelling, and art that often ranged from passable to atrocious, it had slowly but steadily become a mess. And then Ian Flynn with artist Tracey Yardley came on board. Almost like magic, they fixed every single one of the comics' problems practically overnight, cleaning up the art, turning untapped and uninteresting characters into entertaining and even awesome ones, and churning out fun action-packed storylines that weren't afraid to still stop and breath when they needed to. So basically, you're picking your poison; either you go with a continuity that stands on its' own but has a crapton of baggage before the actual good writer comes on board, or you go with one that has none of that baggage, but relies much more on familiarity with a 25 year old series of games. (Or maybe just both one after the other.) It's your choice.
That said, if you do go with the old continuity, there's an informative and entertaining blog that covers nearly every one of the pre-Flynn issues and specials, (or will have in a few weeks time,) so that should help you if you go that route. But either way, it's still pure awesomeness regardless.
Oh, here's the blog: http://robotnikholmescomicblog.tumblr.com/
@Benton,maybe,but you not reading all the good comics,are you?Your not even familiar with the works of Tharg the Might...c,c,c
Quote from: Spade on April 12, 2017, 04:52:33 AM
@Benton,maybe,but you not reading all the good comics,are you?Your not even familiar with the works of Tharg the Might...c,c,c
Tharg is on my list, along with Big E.
Quote from: daglob on April 12, 2017, 02:12:20 PM
Quote from: Spade on April 12, 2017, 04:52:33 AM
@Benton,maybe,but you not reading all the good comics,are you?Your not even familiar with the works of Tharg the Might...c,c,c
Tharg is on my list, along with Big E.
I know;and I didn't mean to offend you or anyone.I'm just seeing a lot of people who complain about being feed up with DC and Marvel but never try anything new.Never try to expand their horizons,so to speak.
Haha, Spade, you haven't offended me, but you have got me wrong. I guess you haven't noticed that I mostly read NON Big Two books. In fact, my reading list is 90% independent, as the only mainstream book I read is Aquaman. I've read a lot of pulp and pulp revival stuff in the last few years, but in terms of modern books, I'm reading:
Lobster Johnson (great pulp revival)
G.I. JOE
TMNT
Astro City
Atomic Robo (always delightful)
I was reading a bunch of other things that have all ended at this point, including the King features, and I've got my eye on a few other series that I might start picking up. But, you see, I didn't like what Marvel and DC were doing, so I gave my money to folks who were doing things right.
And yet your still not reading 2000ad.There is really no excuse for that.:(
Interesting how Astro City did more with the "Superhero registration act" in 6 issues then Marvel did in 200.
Haha, I am fairly certain that 2000AD would be a bit too gritty for my tastes.
2000Ad is okay. It's a bit of a pain to get in some parts of the States. I'd like to see them expand their horlzons on what is in it but that's just me.
And as you can tell, I'm not a reader of the current Marvel or most anything DC has done ever. I'm more an old school Marvel reader along with reading things like Astro City, Metal Hurlant, and a handful of miniseries but that's pretty much it because the industry isn't producing much of the stuff I prefer.
From what I hear,Diamond really does a terrible job with prog distribution in North America.But like with everything else,you can get the collections.
@Benton That like your opinion,dude.But you are really missing a lot.
@DJ Im not sure I understand what you mean by expanding their horizons.What would you like to see in it?
So I'm waaaaay late for that portion of the discussion, but I'll throw my hat in about the Sonic comics: They're really good. I will SLIGHTLY correct kkohoho about the original continuity not existing in a vacuum... the original comics were a bizarre mix of the continuities for both the 90s animated cartoons, for better and worse. The upside is if you're a fan of SatAM (the better cartoon) the comic doesn't end on a cliffhanger. The downside... regardless of which continuity you choose, you ARE expected to know who those characters are. That said, even post-reboot, the games aren't REALLY a factor... ignoring that the plot of the games is often as loose as a Mario title (Eggman=Bad Guy, Sonic= Good Guy. Not complicated) most of the plots and characters you need to know about are introduced in the comic itself.
For my money, I'd say new continuity 100%. Sure, you probably should go back and read the stuff before (if only to see the annoying french snooty character from the cartoon transform into the BEST CHARACTER IN THE SERIES), but you also don't have to slog through the nonsensical Ken Penders garbage like Rob O' the Hedge or pretty much all of the Knuckles series because holy HFIL that comic is garbage.
I'll also add that while I'm waaaay behind on it for reasons I'll get into, Archie's Mega Man is set to be the same, but the opening arcs suffer because you can tell they're trying to rush through the plots of the first few games and it's super rushed in the beginning. By now it's probably a lot better, since invariably they've gotten through enough of the games to get to the characters they want to play with (such as Proto-Man) but I haven't read anything since the reboot/crossover.
Back on topic, read Titans this week. Still awesome, though it is a little depressing that we didn't even get a full year of it before the first CROSSOVER.
Quote from: Tomato on April 16, 2017, 03:43:54 PM
For my money, I'd say new continuity 100%. Sure, you probably should go back and read the stuff before (if only to see the annoying french snooty character from the cartoon transform into the BEST CHARACTER IN THE SERIES), but you also don't have to slog through the nonsensical Ken Penders garbage like Rob O' the Hedge or pretty much all of the Knuckles series because holy HFIL that comic is garbage.
I wouldn't say he's the absolute best character in the series, (that's Bunnie for my money, oh looky I made a funny,) but he still ends up pretty darn awesome, and it is amazing seeing him go from the worst character in the series to one of the best.
Also, I'll admit that I haven't actually read the reboot stuff yet, which I still need to work on. If you say it doesn't rely so much on the games, then who am I judge? But if that's the case, then yeah, definitely start with the reboot, if only so you don't have to put up with all of that Penders baggage. Once you're done with that, then you can go back and read the old continuity to your heart's content, or at least the stuff that Flynn had a hand in.
But I also wouldn't say you're expected to really know who these characters are, at least when it comes to the SatAM crew. It's not as if the comic's saying 'Hey, we would have introduced these characters properly, but you'll just have to watch SatAM to know just who these guys are, sorry about that.' It does treat them as though they're being introduced for the very first time, and you don't feel as if you have to watch the show before reading the comic. Hell, I didn't watch the show until after I read all of the old comic continuity, and I never felt as if I actually needed to watch it to understand who these people were. So that's not really an issue in my book. That said, you
should watch it if you can, because it's awesome in its' own right. It was an early 90's animated show and more or less belonged in the animation renaissance going on at the time, so it's definitely worth checking out.
Batman #21 lived up to the hype, hope the rest of the story keeps the same pace. One of those anyone should try to avoid spoilers before reading so that's all say for now too.
And the second part of "The button" was great. We got so many things out of it... the real historical moment the JLA formed... the classic Crisis... all things stolen from them... and more hints of the JSA return...
As usual, dc rebirth keeping a nice overall quality.
Big shout out to Blue Beetle. That was fantastic. Cannot say how much I love seeing Ted acting as a mentor for Jaime
Wonder Woman is nearing the big end of the two parallel storylines and it has been one of the best rides.
Really don't like that Cass is named Orphan... but she feels like the Cass I fell in love with. And it has been great that Detective Comics has focused on her a bit more.
Rip Hunter mixed with the GL has a lot of interesting things
And... the disturbing mind of Gail Simone wrapped up Clean Room. Pretty great series. And she is already teasing a volume 2 down the line
For a moment I was worried DC stoped cutting off peoples legs,but Im all better now.At least another interesting Superman villain is back.
Wildstorm is still going strong,but thats a longer writeup.
Button,ofc,doesnt answer anything.Its all just a setup for Doomsday clock.
Well,I cant complain about Dark Days:The Forge.Mostly because I have no freaking idea what is going on.
All artifacts in the DC universe are made of same metal?Why are there excepts from Carters journal?And wth Joker has to do with any of that?
no idea about the metals.... but this may be hinting at nth metal being part of what makes all the other artifacts (hence the Hawk's importance and return to combined E1 and E2 origin)
Characters absent from New 52 are mentioned or shown (Lady Blackhawk, Immortal Man) Plus showing some interesting throwbacks like one of THE Monitor's towers.
Also that one is one of the three jokers, but no idea which one yet.
Big issue here... While it is good that Batman is being shown as a detective once more (something really missing on current run, on which he is a super brawler), this issue really does put some big shade on him... What they did to poor Eel O'Brian is pure villainy.
About the other comis:
Bug is just fantastic, so much love for Kirby here.
While not directly related to Dark Days... the Flash keeps hinting at the unraveling of the new continuity and establishing that everything from before still happened (Eobard, like the Psycho-Pirate, remembers EVERYTHING)
Imo,it doesnt work as a mystery.Or I just dont care.
After Button and Lazarus Contract,Im all evented out.
Lobo/Road Runner may well get my Comic Of The Month award. And I really thought it would be something I'd hate too but it just works. Though it also really emphases the classic Lobo comics and it's been a long time since I've had one to read so there's probably that too.
I agree. After a couple of the Hanna-Barbera team-ups, I was worried. I liked the Martian Manhunter/Marvin Martian team up as well as the Wonder Woman/Taz team-up too. The Bugs/LSH was... interesting.
As said elsewhere props where props is due to DC getting Rebirth right. The team on Aquaman is telling. The brass at Top Cow commended DC's current writing for being some of the best stuff they put out in awhile. Normally they don't believe in doing work for other companies because they consider selling product for the opposing team is just taking dollars from their own. Yet Hawkins was so compelled about DC's current writing he met at their summit and leased to them. And by leased I mean Stjepan Šejić. And he's Top Cows star artist right now so that's saying a mouthful.
Odd idea that will never pan out I'm sure. I haven't read these what if Hollywood based books. Like what if Stoltz in Back To The Future or Big Trouble+Escape From LA. But I was thinking today what would be fun is a mini-series linking American Psycho and Batman Begins. Like say that the Bruce Wayne in that canon was actually another namesake of Patrick Bateman or that is the version of himself that ran through his imagination in the moment and link how his character went from the end of AP to becoming Bruce Wayne then Batman in that canon, and the why's of course.
Insert your own Crazy Steve joke here. :)
Random thought,Rick Veitch didn't do a lot of research while writing Swamp Thing,did he?Since there are some odd stuff there,such as Transylvania being in Serbia(its in Romania) or Austrians having tanks in 1914.(first deployed in 1916 on the Somme by British).How hard was to check that,even in the pre-internet era? :doh:
Then again,in recent times we found out Pakistanian is a language.Or so somebody at DC thinks.
Ah, remember: someplace multiverse is a strange world similar to the DC Universe, except there are no super heroes and no black lines around everything. In that universe Transylvania is in Romania, and the Pakistani speak Urdu instead of their own language, and all the other things.
Or Veitch screwed up.
One of my favorite stories is still "World's Funnest".
Well,at least we can say sloppy editing has been a constant for the last 35-40 years. :|
After Veitch left in a middle of the arc,DC handed the title to their cantina worker(or so the legend goes) Doug Wheeler.Results soon followed.
Bad jokes aside,I know Wheeler had big shoes to fill and little time to prepare,but his Swamp thing is just boring.A lot of people in the letter pages share that opinion.
After Wheeler,Nancy Collins takes over.And she focused more on the setting and local legends and locals in general.You could say the focus is less on Swamp Thing and more on Swamp People.
I apologize...
So i heard Jeff Lemire is going to do a Fantastic Four styled book at DC called "The Terrifics" with Mr. Terrific, Phantom Girl, Metamorpho, and Plastic Man. This is nearly my dream book. The only thing that could make it better would be Mike Allred on art, and a third arc with the New Gods. First two being earth based adventures.
Quote from: detourne_me on July 23, 2017, 04:42:23 PM
So i heard Jeff Lemire is going to do a Fantastic Four styled book at DC called "The Terrifics" with Mr. Terrific, Phantom Girl, Metamorpho, and Plastic Man. This is nearly my dream book. The only thing that could make it better would be Mike Allred on art, and a third arc with the New Gods. First two being earth based adventures.
Sounds awesome. :)
And I can bet you it's only going to last 12 issues. If that. :(
http://atomicjunkshop.com/6772-2/ (http://atomicjunkshop.com/6772-2/)
While looking at some SDCC news I found this interesting opinion piece.Interesting because it parrots every other opinion piece.
Okay,there are some good points about DC and its leadership.But singling out Marvel as doing so great and Axel Alonso as an editor exemplar is a bit...whats the word here...fanboyish,pants-on-head retarded.
So I was going to respond with a very general commentary at first, then decided to check the link first and I'm a bit confused.
Is the article you linked to the one where they mention Alonso? And it's not been edited or swapped out with newer article or anything? Because I didn't see a reference to Alonso, just a reference to Bob Harras being the EIC in the late 90's during the comic crash.
Honestly, if this is the article you're talking about, then the only thing it mentions is that Marvel has some books that are selling well through digital. Which doesn't sound like an unreasonable point to make to me.
(http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/jon-stewart-confused-what.gif)
Weird,it was tuned since last time I checked.And its an odd position these days if I find myself defending DC.
Still,a few things:
Representatives from DC Comics say that the comics industry is on the verge of collapse.
I say that's Pure Unvarnished Bunkum.
Sales on individual titles are dropping, but sales overall are up. Basically, companies are selling fewer copies of, say, Green Arrow, but, overall, including digital sales and trade paperback sales (neither of which figure into DC's sales figures), more comics are being sold.
Maybe because there are now a lot more titles then there used to be,say 20 years ago?Does that really show how healthy the industry is?
Marvel's successes are coming in things like Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur and Black Panther (both of which are performing poorly in direct market sales, but are selling in extremely high numbers through Marvel's digital service) and Unbeatable Squirrel Girl rather than in high-profile 'events' like Secret Empire.
I would like to see some numbers on those digital sales for once.IIRC All-Star Batman and Flash did outsell Secret Empire,but I dont remember anything about Squirrel girl.
DC's current marketing strategy is to reboot everything and start from scratch. In the 3 decades since 1986, they've done it almost a dozen times.
They paint themselves into a corner, then burn the corner (and indeed, the whole house) down and start building anew using the same materials in slightly different configurations.
Okay,hard to argue with that one. :rolleyes:
How about taking those creators and letting them bring in new perspectives and new ideas to familiar comics, just like British creators like Moore, Gaiman, Ellis, Ennis, Milligan and Morrison did?
1)Because those British creators didn't magically spring into existence.Before JLA,Morrison had Zenith,Animal Man,Doom Patrol.If somebody with that kinda credentials shows up,Im sure he/she would get the job.
2)Simply,hiring new people is always a risk.If you traffic in nostalgia even more so.
As Marvel Editor-in-Chief, Joe Quesada once said, "...they have Batman and Superman, and they don't know what to do with them."
Well,people in glass houses sink ships,Quesada. <_<
So they really did edit the article? What did they originally say about Alonso?
Yeah, about Moon Girl. Someone told me recently "it sells really well", but now I'm curious how one would know that if it only sells well in digital but we never get to see the figures for digital. And here's the thing about the sales numbers.....Marvel lies their butts off about them. I don't know if this is still the case, but they used to vehemently deny the accuracy of sales numbers that 1. Were supplied by Marvel themselves. and 2. They were legally required to provide.
There was a shorter observation about Alonso unified vision(or something along those lines) near the passage about digital sales.Apparently,he knows what hes doing.
Oh,and meanwhile:
https://www.newsarama.com/35592-superman-year-one-by-frank-miller-john-romita-jr.html (https://www.newsarama.com/35592-superman-year-one-by-frank-miller-john-romita-jr.html)
Does Superman's origin story really needs to be retold?Again?By Frank Miller? :blink:
Quote from: Spade on July 26, 2017, 11:07:33 AM
They paint themselves into a corner, then burn the corner (and indeed, the whole house) down and start building anew using the same materials in slightly different configurations.
That's an excellent description of their process. :P It's hard to end up anywhere different when you never actually change anything you do.
To be fair,if we learned anything so far its that comic readers hate changes.So its a no-win situation either way.
And yet, they are in a state of perpetual change, constantly reinventing the wheel and flipping over the table every other month, never establishing, much less enjoying, a status quo. Their desperation to generate sales has them constantly alienating somebody.
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 29, 2017, 09:26:34 PM
And yet, they are in a state of perpetual change, constantly reinventing the wheel and flipping over the table every other month, never establishing, much less enjoying, a status quo. Their desperation to generate sales has them constantly alienating somebody.
And when they're not flipping over the status quo, they're making a status quo (or at least a temporary one,) that appeals to no-one but those who came up with it. It's the same with Marvel. I'm assuming everyone knows about Captain Nazi? ;)
You mean the old Captain Marvel Jr. Villain?
(Unfortunately, I know what you mean :()
Right Kk, and that is usually the result of a "bold new direction" that no-one asked for, like the recent Cullen Bunn run on Aquaman.
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 29, 2017, 09:26:34 PM
And yet, they are in a state of perpetual change, constantly reinventing the wheel and flipping over the table every other month, never establishing, much less enjoying, a status quo. Their desperation to generate sales has them constantly alienating somebody.
Again,hard to argue with that.Yet for all the bold new directions,they are still fond of revisiting 30+ year old stories. :rolleyes:
Tom Kings Fourth World,really?
Well, it's all terribly incestuous these days, isn't it? They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to restart their universe, but keep all the history so they can reference things obliquely instead of actually telling stories, trusting in a comic-savvy audience to pick up on their references and follow along, despite the fact that it makes no sense in the world they've created. Everything started over, except everything also has a big past full of classic stories that have now never been told. The Flash already has a bunchy of villains. The JLA has already gone through multiple permutations and fought multiple villains, and everyone is already well into their careers. It's a terribly slovenly way to tell stories.
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 30, 2017, 08:41:59 PM
Well, it's all terribly incestuous these days, isn't it? They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to restart their universe, but keep all the history so they can reference things obliquely instead of actually telling stories, trusting in a comic-savvy audience to pick up on their references and follow along, despite the fact that it makes no sense in the world they've created. Everything started over, except everything also has a big past full of classic stories that have now never been told. The Flash already has a bunchy of villains. The JLA has already gone through multiple permutations and fought multiple villains, and everyone is already well into their careers. It's a terribly slovenly way to tell stories.
That's my biggest problem with soft-reboots. Regardless of the actual quality of the stories therein, you're still at a point where everything is supposed to have already happened, except it didn.'t They try and build up some sort of imagined universe as if it had been around all this time, but it hasn't really, so we don't actually get to see most of what's happened, which makes it hard to form any sort of real connection with what's going on. And they still try to keep the really popular and 'important' bits of the old universe even though everything around these bits is no longer the same. Archie did the same thing with its' Sonic comics, (which are amazing by the way,) and while the actual Postboot stories themselves are enjoyable, it's still more or less the same feeling as the Nu52 and Rebirth. To be fair, the main writer (Ian Flynn) actually wanted to a hard reboot proper, but the higher ups just wouldn't let him, so he had to resort to a soft boot. Now that the comic's switched hands to IDW though, it seems like they're doing a hard reboot after all while still keeping Flynn on board, which is really what they should have done in the first place. So at least Sonic's getting a chance to do it right, which is more than I can say for DC.
Quote from: BentonGrey on July 30, 2017, 08:41:59 PM
Well, it's all terribly incestuous these days, isn't it? They want to have their cake and eat it too. They want to restart their universe, but keep all the history so they can reference things obliquely...
Like that time Forever Evil confirmed all the Silver Age stories happened?Apparently between pages of JL.Oddly I still use the term JLA,despite the "A" part being dropped years ago.
Now,I still think Rebirth was a good thing,but here is the problem-it was a year ago.How long can they ride the wave of excitment from Rebirth?And how long can they avoid answering the questions raised there?Mister Oz and all that?
Too late to complain,but after rereading No Mans Land Im pretty sure this is the event to blame for all the events that followed.From a premise that doesnt make sense to pointless death of a supporting character,it sets a template that will be followed for years to come.At least we got Cassandra as Batgirl so it wasnt all that bad.
Join me next time as we relive Fall of Green Arrow.(jk,no chance of that) :rolleyes:
Did anyone else read Mister Miracle #1 by Tom King?
I liked it, reminded me a little of Lemire's Moon Knight, as is seems like both a deconstruction of the character and a celebration of their past.
Looking forward to seeing where it goes.
I've heard good things about it, but it would have to be pretty amazing to make me pick up a modern DC book.
I've been reading the newest volume of the Ostrander Suicide Squad reprints....I'd forgotten what a great book this is. A good chunk of this volume is devoted to the proper introduction of Oracle (she'd been teased several times earlier in the run), though I haven't gotten that far yet.
Spoiler
Deadshot is hired by a villain from earlier in the run to assassinate Waller. Waller gets him to switch sides by matching his offer....plus 1 dollar more. Awesome!!! :thumbup:
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 19, 2017, 12:49:00 PM
I've been reading the newest volume of the Ostrander Suicide Squad reprints....I'd forgotten what a great book this is. A good chunk of this volume is devoted to the proper introduction of Oracle (she'd been teased several times earlier in the run), though I haven't gotten that far yet.
Spoiler
Deadshot is hired by a villain from earlier in the run to assassinate Waller. Waller gets him to switch sides by matching his offer....plus 1 dollar more. Awesome!!! :thumbup:
I've started reading the reprints myself. It starts off a bit slow, (did we
really need that Secret Origins issue right at the start,) but once you get to the
actual first issue, it's amazing. It's one of those rare books that thrived in the Dark Age of comics rather than suffering from it, mainly because it's a book that
should be dark. Ostrander hit it out of the ballpark here is, as he tends to do, and it's really something everyone should check out.
That said, has anyone read the Nu52 and Rebirth stuff? How does that stack up to Ostrander's run, if you don't mind me asking?
Im probably in minority there,but I liked N52 Suicide Squad.It wasn't genre bending,but it was okay in a sort of action movie sense.I didnt care much for New Suicide Squad however.It went a bit too big with the villains.Deathstroke,Harley,Reverse Flash,Black Manta.Come on,we know none of them are going to die here. :rolleyes:
See the previous few pages for Rebirth version,thou I fell behind on it,a lot.
Oh and apparently,Hawkworld collection isnt happening.That is,the miniseries is collected,the ongoing most probably wont be.
Quote from: kkhohoho on August 19, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
It's one of those rare books that thrived in the Dark Age of comics rather than suffering from it
When you think about,quite a few at DC.Aforementioned Hawkworld,Wasteland,Spectre(notice a theme here?),Grells Green Arrow,or a personal favorite---Hitman.
Quote from: kkhohoho on August 19, 2017, 02:43:26 PM
I've started reading the reprints myself. It starts off a bit slow, (did we really need that Secret Origins issue right at the start,) but once you get to the actual first issue, it's amazing.
Yeah, that Secret Origins issue was kind of hard to get through. I would say it needs to be there though, just because stuff that's established in it comes up later in the run.
QuoteThat said, has anyone read the Nu52 and Rebirth stuff? How does that stack up to Ostrander's run, if you don't mind me asking?
I read the first few issues of the Nu52 series and dropped off after that. It was...ok. Like Spade said, it's kinda an action movie. The art could have been better.
I'll definitely be reading more in the future. I bought pretty much all of it during Comixology sales and I'm going to get a reprint of Justice League vs. Suicide Squad at some point in the future so I'll read the stuff leading up to it first.
QuoteIm probably in minority there,but I liked N52 Suicide Squad.It wasn't genre bending,but it was okay in a sort of action movie sense.I didnt care much for New Suicide Squad however.It went a bit too big with the villains.Deathstroke,Harley,Reverse Flash,Black Manta.Come on,we know none of them are going to die here.
Yeah, that's kinda an important part of
Suicide Squad. A sense that anyone could die. Filling up the book with more high-profile characters might help sell the book, but it does undercut that theme.
QuoteWhen you think about,quite a few at DC.Aforementioned Hawkworld,Wasteland,Spectre(notice a theme here?),Grells Green Arrow,or a personal favorite---Hitman.
Yeah, as you and I discussed a while back on this forum, the Ostrander/Mandrake Spectre run was a pretty sweet book.
We did,but its worth mentioning again.
What a lot of said titles benefited from was realism.Not in the popular sense of realistic= everyone is a dick and gallons of blood are spilled.But they showed a realistic setting and realistic problems that also plagued our world.Hawks were police officers(Hawk street Blues,anyone?),Green Arrow fought serial killers and terrorists,and Spectre got involved into a standoff between not-Black Panthers and Jewish Defense League.A tough guy from the 30's tries to get used to the modern world,an alien policeman tries to figure out differences in laws and rights between Earth and Thanagar(spoiler,its not that different),and and aging vigilante stalks the urban jungle while also figuring out the career robbed him of family and pretty much any chance of happiness.Hey,nobody said its an easy read.
On the other hand,in the late 80's Shadow started dual wielding Uzis,which proves that a realistic rework isn't for everyone.
Yeah, Ostrander's Suicide Squad was firmly entrenched in Cold War cloak and dagger/black ops skullduggery, Something that, from what I've seen, the newer iterations of the property haven't really done. I'm not really sure if there's a specific reason for that. I might be because they guest starred in Justice League Unlimited, Arrow and the Batman Arkham series before being a DC mainstay with it's own comics and feature film, it might be because tying into the more superhero stuff helps sales, it might to minimize possible controversy by using real life politics and nations, it might be a combination.
I don't think I read that part of Spectre (I don't think I got terribly far in the series, maybe the first 5-10 issues? enough to know it was a really good book). But I remember the book being very thoughtful and philosophical, and not in the overly-flowery purple prose way comics have had a bad reputation for (though to be honest I have a soft spot for that kind of older writing style, since it's not used as must these days).
The Shadow also had a robot suit in the 90's because of course he did. As for duel-wielding Uzis, I'm not exactly an expert on the Shadow, but isn't he supposed to be pretty violent towards criminals? So using guns might not be that out of place for him.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 21, 2017, 06:43:22 AM
The Shadow also had a robot suit in the 90's because of course he did. As for duel-wielding Uzis, I'm not exactly an expert on the Shadow, but isn't he supposed to be pretty violent towards criminals? So using guns might not be that out of place for him.
Im not even surprised.Im not an expert on The Shadow either*,but the decision to transport him from 30's** to 80's is really weird.Problem isn't really with Uzis,but rather that its weird to rob the character of his setting.Its like if you transport Conan to modern times,or if Batman moved to San Diego.And ofc,this is Chaykin.***
TL;DR version-that series didn't age well.
*I like the visuals and ideas of the character,but I really only read a few comics.And seen the movie,but that was a long time ago.**It shares that theme with Spectre,oddly enough.***Over the top violence,personal fetishes and scratchy artwork all included.
If I remember right, it wasn't a robot suit. It was his head on a robot body. And yes, I'd like to forget about that.
The thing is, there are two different versions of the Shadow. The radio version wasn't violent at all, and didn't wear a costume. He didn't need one, because he was always just an invisible voice. And if a bad guy died it usually was their own fault.
The pulp version is the one that the comics (and Alec Baldwin movie) versions are based on, and he's always used guns. But he didn't always kill the bad guys.
But my main gripe is that the comics (and movie) usually have the Shadow actually being Lamont Cranston, which was only true of the radio version. In the pulps, the Shadow was someone else completely different (Kent Allard), who just happened to look like Cranston. The real Cranston let him borrow his identity when he was out of town.
The Shadow doesn't work at all in a modern setting. I'm not sure that Doc Savage would, either. Surprisingly, there have been a few modern era Green Hornet comics (featuring the original's descendants), and most of those actually worked. (I loved the NOW Comics series.)
IIRC this version wasnt Cranston.Actually,Cranston turns out to the villain killing Shadows agents.He survived and rebuilt his empire under a different name while Shadow adopted his name and life because they looked the same.Spoiler for a 30 year old comic,I know.
Btw after Chaykin,Helfer took over and things go into self parody mode.Black comedy,almost slapstick mode.
I'd comment on this but I'd get angry and abusive. Not towards you, but to the people who butchered DC's Shadow comic.
The Shadow, like Doc Savage, The Green Hornet, and similar characters, belongs in his original era. When you move them out of that setting, you lose a lot of what makes them work.
GhostMachine was right about The Green Hornet, though. The Now Comics were quite good, giving us adventures of three generations of Green Hornet (more, if you count the one in the future), with each adapting their MO to suit the time. The mistakes DC seems to make with updating The Shadow and Doc Savage, as well as The Avenger, usually involve ignoring a lot of what makes the character work and creating what is substantially a new character with the same name and a few of the trappings to fit what the writer wants to write about. It occurs to me that they did the same thing with THUNDER Agents.
However, DC did two Shadow series that were set in the pulp era, and I enjoyed them both.
Right DG, but the generational approach is a whole other animal. That can totally work. I haven't really read the generational GH series, but from what I've seen, I imagine they would tend to be pretty good. Of course, the Hornet lends himself to that type of approach much better than, say the Shadow. You could probably work something out with Doc Savage, or at least a descendant of Pat's.
Dynamic has done a pretty good job with the Shadow. They've also done a fairly decent job with the Green Hornet, and since they got the rights to use both the Green Hornet and the Lone Ranger, they were able to use their connection. Though I didn't care for the crossover mini-series because of how the elderly Lone Ranger was portrayed.
Another good example is DCs Spirit.It did a good job with the Spirit in the modern setting.
So after sitting on it for the longest time, I decided to start reading Justice League Detroit, and GOD is it bad. Just to be clear, this series is far from the worst thing I've ever read, and if read in a vacuum, it might not even have been that bad. But as a direct successor to the Classic League, it is a completely different kettle of fish. Everything about it is just ill planned, ill executed, and ill advised. Even the reason as to why there's a new League doesn't make a lick of sense. "A massive threat could strike the Earth at any time, so all members of the League need to be on fulltime status all the time! Even when we have more than enough active members that not everyone needs to be on fulltime status all the time!" Nevermind that, as we learn later, there was a very good reason why the more powerful members of the League like Superman and Wonderwoman weren't there to help during the Mars invasion, so in hindsight, that doesn't really hold water. Nevermind that it's coming from Aquaman of all people. They try to have his sudden sense of commitment and duty to the League make sense by focusing on the rift between him and Mera, but it just doesn't seem like it's enough.
The rest of the issue (Justice League Annual #2 for the curious,) doesn't fare much better. "So, all of these new Superpowered young whippersnappers just showed up out of the blue and one of them even offered us a new fancy base without bothering to explain how or why. Eh, we're easy." It's just... none of this makes sense. None of it. Not even Zatanna and Vixin falling for the mechanic at first sight, who's a sweaty middle-aged dude who's not in any real way attractive or interesting. And speaking of Vixen, I know it's only the first issue, but she's really just kind of there. Even Steel and Vibe have something to them. Actually, scratch that. Vibe doesn't have something to him because he's not even a real character; he's a walking talking mass of attitude and catch-phrases, that's what he is.
The whole thing feels like an attempt to cash in on the Titans and other similar books at the time, with more of a focus on Character Development and a Younger and Hipper crew, but at least so far, it just doesn't work. The only good thing that came from this is that it left the door open for JLI later down the road, which is everything Detroit wishes it was. Other than that, I don't know, maybe It Gets Better, but at least for now, it might as well be dead in the water.
Quote from: kkhohoho on September 09, 2017, 06:21:48 PMmaybe It Gets Better
I read this monthly when it was an active title. And no, no it doesn't. :thumbdown:
Haha, I've read very little of it, but this sounds about right. I enjoyed your righteous indignation at how terrible this series is, Kk. :lol:
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 09, 2017, 09:22:48 PM
Haha, I've read very little of it, but this sounds about right. I enjoyed your righteous indignation at how terrible this series is, Kk. :lol:
Thanks. :) Oh, and I didn't bother to post it before, but I think this particular video's appropriate. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmLAj9iIfQk
Dale Gunn,dude who looks like Uncle Phil,yet has two hot superheroines fighting over him.Like,how? :lol:
And Mr OZ is actually
Spoiler
Jor-El
Did anyone saw that coming? :unsure:
Yeah, actually, I totally saw that coming. There were lots of hints in the issues of Action I'd read (and apparently at least one big one from an earlier run I had only just recently found out about) and the interviews and solicits tipped their hand big time.
Spoiler
Between the story itself, and said solicits and interviews, it was clear Mr. Oz's identity would "shake Superman to the core" which made it think it would be someone he knows, someone who means something, as opposed to Ozymandias, someone he's never heard of (Peter Canon: Thunderbolt not withstanding) :P. Not only that, but some of his appearances seem to indicate that Oz had a knowledge of and investment in Supe's family and backstory as the last son of Krypton.
CBR also ran a story right before the issue came out where they'd figured it out too, which included a look at the earlier run I'd mentioned above. So I was definitely not the only one.
So yeah, I knew exactly what to expect when this issue came out. Now I'm looking forward to learning the whys and hows.
I don't follow CBR,so there is that...I hang around the forum sometimes,but that's another story.
So Aqualad likes Lilith now.Wasnt he gay?
Just asking,nobody go ballistic.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on September 16, 2017, 01:25:58 PM
So Aqualad likes Lilith now.Wasnt he gay?
Just asking,nobody go ballistic.
That was last week... now,
next week...
Spoiler
I wonder... Is this whole Jor-El thing a return to the period when everyone seemed to hate their fathers? Or perhaps Dan Jurgens is going to take the "evil father" thing and do a entertaining, even enlightening version. Once upon a time, the whole "mutant menace" thing had been done to death. Twice. Maybe three times. Then Chris Claremont came along and did it again, and did it very well. Afterwards it was done to death again, multiple times. And which Superman's father is he, anyway; pre-
or post-52?
Quote from: daglob on September 16, 2017, 02:48:30 PM
Spoiler
And which Superman's father is he, anyway; pre- or post-52?
Spoiler
Or pre- or post-Crisis? Or the Kingdom Come timeline? Or .... (ad infinitum)
Maybe hes from a different universe?
...what, like Image Comics Jor-El?!?
More like different DC Earth.
But DJ may have something there...
Regarding the Mr. Oz thing...
Spoiler
There's an obscure, pre-Crisis character named Roz-M who had plastic surgery to look like Jor-El. Mr. Oz may very well be a new version of that character. The name is the giveaway.
(I can't take credit for this. Someone at another board I'm a member of pointed it out.)
Quote from: GhostMachine on September 17, 2017, 03:29:31 AM
Regarding the Mr. Oz thing...
Spoiler
There's an obscure, pre-Crisis character named Roz-M who had plastic surgery to look like Jor-El. Mr. Oz may very well be a new version of that character. The name is the giveaway.
(I can't take credit for this. Someone at another board I'm a member of pointed it out.)
More accurately,
Spoiler
Roz-Em had his face changed to look like Nim-El, Jor-El's brother, who was in charge of a/the forbidden weapons armory. With only two appearances ever, 1963 & 1970, and only a brief mention in the 1982 Phantom Zone mini series, it's a pretty obscure character (I don't think even I'd heard of him yet).
Sounds good, you guys may be on the ball.
In other news, but not really cuz it's totally related.
So DC December solicits just came out and ohmigosh ohmigosh, Guess who's showing up in Action Comics for at least 2 issues to literally sort out this whole business? BOOSTER GOLD!! He protects the past to ensure your future!!
So, to whoever reads this post, if you've got a time machine, can you just go ahead and lemme have the new issues of Action early, cuz that'd just be swell kthanxbye.
So. More Justice League Detroit. And the series just keeps on piling on the stupid.
Anyhoo, Superman, Wonderwoman, and Flash finally come back from their extended leave of absence on Earth 2 where, as it turns out, they were busy saving the freaking universe from annihilation. And yet, despite this completely valid and understandable explanation for their absence, they actually approve of Aquaman disbanding the League without their input. But I don't have to tell you why they went along with it. Here's how Aquaman explained it to them:
AQUAMAN: There was a time when the League stood as a symbol. 'The World's Greatest Heroes', the press called us, gathered to stand in common cause against injustice. Do you remember how it was then? The seven of us... the original League... We faced each threat as a team, together, and the League was our highest priority. In those early days, none of us missed a crisis. We depended on each other, and we were always there. As time passed, the League grew... adding more and more members to our role call— and yes, losing members as well. J'onn J'onz was the first to resign; Batman the last. And somewhere along the way, that original sense of purpose and commitment was lost as well. For some of us, the League was no longer our first priority... sometimes, not even our second. What happened during the Earth-Mars war was only the most recent, most obvious example of a continuing trend. Isn't it obvious? The League was already dead, at least in the original sense. I just signed the death certificate.
Where do I even begin? First off, the League was never your first priority. Not for any of you, especially not you, Aquadick. The League was important, yes, but you also had your own cities and kingdoms to guard, and I'm pretty darn sure those were your first priorities. Second, you were not always there. Even in the Silver Age, you still had the odd Leaguer missing out on a story here and there, with J'onn being the most noticeable guilty party. Now, maybe it's true that more and more members started showing up less frequently, but that was only because there were more than enough members that they didn't need to show up so often, nevermind that the few who actually left like J'onn had damn good reason to.. Not to mention, but the more members you have, the less of them need to be present at a given time, 'commitment' be damned.
And speaking of commitment, Aquaman's the last person to be talking about it, seeing as he only showed up every other month or so later on if that, nevermind having his own kingdom to run. This whole tirade about 'commitment' and 'duty' is a load of hogwash to try and justify the flimsy premise the book has, a premise so flimsy that when Supes and Wondy and the Flash go along with it, you just can't buy that they do. There was no good reason for the old League to disband, and Conway knows it. He just wanted to promote his Not!Titans and his own little special snowflakes. But that's just not what the League is.
Also, in the same issue, Vixen disobeys Aquaman's orders to stay put and instead goes off and does her own thing, (herself showing some rather questionable 'commitment',) and so what does Aquaman do? GIVE HER A SEIZURE. Aquadick: Our hero everybody! :banghead:
If only we could have someone to keep watch and alert the others in a case of emergency.Some sort of monitor duty,if you will.But nah,that would be stupid.
So I reread Chaykins Shadow,and its actually surprising okay to good.Most of the previous complaint...actually happened in Helfers series.Uncanny,but its a very DKR like comic.I say uncanny because Chaykin says he only read DKR much later.I guess its a pretty simple idea of an old superhero returning to action.So its possible he and Miller both had the same idea.And they probably werent first.
Chaykin's original miniseries was interesting; I enjoyed it at the time, but I took it as a variant, maybe an Earth 1 version of The Shadow. It was all downhill from there.
Okay, I'm sorry but... I can't take it anymore. For all intents and purposes, I am done with Justice League Detroit. Mind you, it's not just because it's bad. If it were just plain bad, eh, whatever, it's a bad comic. If it were So Bad, It's Good, at least it would be entertaining. And if it were So Bad, It's Horrible, it'd at least be as fascinating as all hell. This is none of those things. This isn't just bad; this is boringly bad. Even when it isn't terrible, it is still so mind-numbingly banal and boring that you're wondering if you haven't lost a brain cell already just reading it. And it's that same banality that would still make it a slog even if it were its' own comic separate from the League. Nevermind the sometimes questionable dialogue ('Heats my pot?' Seriously?) and storytelling. (Aquaman gives Vixen a seizure and... she's cool with it. And so is MM apparently.)] There are no repercussions for this whatsoever as far as I can see, even though there should have been. He should have been kicked out of the League for that alone. )
To sum up, I cannot possibly get through this sober, and I am not about to compromise my sobriety for the sake of a bad comic. So... I'm done.
Haha! Well, I can't say I blame you. There's a reason that it's a famous low point in the history of the League. :lol:
On the Aquaman abusing his powers topic, I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember there being some type of fallout from that eventually. Nonetheless, it isn't really something that should never have happened in the first place.
Wait...you go thru life sober?!? What the?!?
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 02, 2017, 02:19:34 PM
Haha! Well, I can't say I blame you. There's a reason that it's a famous low point in the history of the League. :lol:
On the Aquaman abusing his powers topic, I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember there being some type of fallout from that eventually. Nonetheless, it isn't really something that should never have happened in the first place.
Brain damage would explain a lot there. :)
On a more modern topic,somebody managed to put in words my problem with Rebirth Batman- they replaced a-hole Batman with sad Batman.Its not much of an improvement.
Looking back at Rebirth,I would say absolute winners were Superman and Flash.While Batman and Justice League were the losers here.I also figured out last time I enjoyed reading Justice League was when McDuffie was writing it.Seriously,its been a mediocre decade. :(
Quote from: Deaths Jester on October 02, 2017, 03:11:52 PM
Wait...you go thru life sober?!? What the?!?
Yeeup. I'm a teetotaler. I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, and I don't drink. Never had a single drop. And I am A-OK with that. :)
Oh...so I don't have to share this bottle of vodka with your name on it?!? Good, cause I already drank it...
Quote from: Deaths Jester on October 02, 2017, 04:07:40 PM
Oh...so I don't have to share this bottle of vodka with your name on it?!? Good, cause I already drank it...
...That's not vodka. :mellow:
Haha! You've just blown DJ's mind, Kk! :lol:
...but it was alcohol....
Hey, I know booze a whole lot better than you...and that was booze!
There is, of course, more than one type of alcohol...
Quote from: Deaths Jester on October 02, 2017, 11:59:04 PM
Hey, I know booze a whole lot better than you...and that was booze!
If you say so. All I know is that I drank a
lot of water the other day, the toilet was clogged for whatever darn reason, and an empty bottle was lying around just waiting for someone to give it a purpose. You do the math. ;)
Yeah, that wasn't the bottle I had, Kk. I gave your pee bottle to Benton instead...
Quote from: Deaths Jester on October 03, 2017, 02:57:34 AM
Yeah, that wasn't the bottle I had, Kk. I gave your pee bottle to Benton instead...
Oh. Sorry Benton. My bad... :unsure:
That's what that smell was.....
So,Batman and Catwoman are engaged now.I guess now the policy at DC is that everyone must be married.
I would actually be excited about this if the characters and the world held any value for me anymore.
However, there is this, which is nice:
http://textsfromsuperheroes.com/post/164653923449/catwedding
Hmmm... I've read comics long enough to know what it means for a hero to get engaged or married to anyone...
Quote from: daglob on October 03, 2017, 10:34:34 PM
Hmmm... I've read comics long enough to know what it means for a hero to get engaged or married to anyone...
It means that the hero makes a deal with the devil to have their marriage completely erased from existence? Or am I just totally off-base here?
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 03, 2017, 10:11:35 PM
I would actually be excited about this if the characters and the world held any value for me anymore.
However, there is this, which is nice:
http://textsfromsuperheroes.com/post/164653923449/catwedding
Jokes on them.We can only wish things to go that smooth with Tom King at the helm.
Why bother anyway?We al know this will last until a new writer takes over.
Also,Superman,Aquaman,Animal Man (I assume hes still around,we just havent seen him),sometimes Green Arrow (currently not,I think)...there must be someone else whos married.
And of course, as far as I know, none of them are currently married, because marriage just makes them unrelatable or some asinine nonsense.
No,Superman is married,that Im sure of.
I havent seen Animal Man in a while,but he had family in the N52 series,which I admit,I didnt get very far with it.
Green Arrow isnt afaik.Aquaman was engaged or something?
So really only Superman?That cant be right.Oh yeah,there was Scandal,if that counts.
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 04, 2017, 01:02:23 PM
And of course, as far as I know, none of them are currently married, because marriage just makes them unrelatable or some asinine nonsense.
Yeah. Superman's married, (and aside from that Nu52 nonsense, he's been married since the late 90's, so... good job?) and he even has a kid, but other than that, marriage just isn't a thing most Superheroes
do these days, even though they should. With most readers these days in their late 20's or in many cases even older, marriage would only make them more relatable, not less. There's plenty of things you can do with marriage that you can't do with a single swinging bachelor, but most books just don't want to go through with it.
Also, if we really want to get technical, there's also Lightning Lad and Saturn Girl in the Legion of Superheroes, but that series has been canceled for years now, nevermind taking place in the freaking future. Oh, and does anyone know if Ralph and Sue are still a thing? Please let them be a thing. Or did they stuff her in the fridge again?
IIRC they showed up in N52 Secret Six.Ralph was Big Shot and Sue was evil.But at least that means Identity Crisis didn't happen,so yey I guess?
Quote from: HarryTrotter on October 04, 2017, 03:11:26 PM
IIRC they showed up in N52 Secret Six.Ralph was Big Shot and Sue was evil.But at least that means Identity Crisis didn't happen,so yey I guess?
...
Well frick.
Quote from: kkhohoho on October 04, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on October 04, 2017, 03:11:26 PM
IIRC they showed up in N52 Secret Six.Ralph was Big Shot and Sue was evil.But at least that means Identity Crisis didn't happen,so yey I guess?
...
Well frick.
Maybe things changed later on.I dropped that series pretty fast (you can probably sense a theme by now).
The Shadow-Batman #1 I didn't got far with the last one,so maybe this will be better.This issue was average.
Superman #32 Superman spends a lot of time monologing about not killing.I suspect this was ghost written by Mark Waid. :)
And the person who hired Deathstroke-
Spoiler
Amanda Waller.
. Expected something different,I guess.
I checked that,and Animal-mans marriage fell apart after his son died.Ofc it did.
:banghead:
You know, after reading Justice League Detroit, I've come to realize that modern comics do in fact NOT suck. Are there problems? Certainly. But if JLD was any indication, the 'good old days' wasn't exactly a bed of roses either. There was bad continuity and publicity stunts then, and there's bad continuity and publicity stunts now. It's just with the advent of mass-media, it's a LOT more noticeable nowadays.
That said, when I hear about some of the stuff they're doing today, (like with Ralph and Animal Man,) I'd be lying if it said it didn't make me feel like my previous position was vindicated. ;)
And speaking of Animal Man, where's Grant Morrison when you need him? Just have him pop in and whip up another Dues Ex Machina or two. It'd make just as much sense as some of the stuff they're doing these days.
QuoteYou know, after reading Justice League Detroit, I've come to realize that modern comics do in fact NOT suck. Are there problems? Certainly. But if JLD was any indication, the 'good old days' wasn't exactly a bed of roses either. There was bad continuity and publicity stunts then, and there's bad continuity and publicity stunts now. It's just with the advent of mass-media, it's a LOT more noticeable nowadays.
True,but there are good stuff and bad stuff in every age.JLD started in 1984,right?Around the same time Alan Moore took over writing duties for Swamp Thing.Rest is history,as they say.Its just that we have 33 years of hindsight now.Swampy is venerated,JLD is forgotten.
Now you have hype-machine working 24/7 and telling you whats going to be an instant classic.But lets face it,in 33 years from now (if humanity and comic fans are still around) nobody is going to remember Omega Men.
QuoteAnd speaking of Animal Man, where's Grant Morrison when you need him? Just have him pop in and whip up another Dues Ex Machina or two. It'd make just as much sense as some of the stuff they're doing these days.
Grant is now EiC of Heavy Metal Magazine.How the mighty have fallen.
But they really try to imitate him.They have no idea what they are doing,but they are trying to imitate him.
Speaking of which,Hitch is leaving Justice League soon.Priest takes over.Honestly,he was always a hit or miss for me,but lets see how this goes.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on October 04, 2017, 03:32:36 PM
The Shadow-Batman #1 I didn't got far with the last one,so maybe this will be better.This issue was average.
A lot of this I have no problem with. I just have to ask: why does The Shadow have to have super powers? He didn't in the pulps (oddly enough, Shiwan Khan had "the ability to cloud men's minds"), he was just incredibly prepared. He studied his opponent, used his knowledge of the city to plan getaways, moved his agents like chess pieces, gathered clues, made deductions, developed theories, and planned his "attack". If wounded, other than the purple liquid, he used willpower, training, and gumption to get though to safely. If cornered, he used every resource he possessed and every mistake his opponent made to escape. He used his
skill at hypnotism when his plain old spookiness wasn't enough (criminals are, after all, a cowardly and superstitious lot) in interrogation. I know that in the original S&S comics, he really could turn invisible (somewhat like the radio show), and then Archie did the costumed hero version, but DC returned him to his pulpy origins (mostly) when they did his comics in the '70s. Since then, he has had these "powers". He is no longer the most skilled crime fighter this side of Batman, he is a super-hero, with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. I know, I threat a lot of these as alternate world versions, but is it really necessary for him to be a reformed crook instead of a patriotic soldier/spy? Did he really have to go to some high-tech Shangri-La and learn mystic abilities? What may bother me the most is that he has also seems to have acquired The Spider's attitude toward criminals: the only good one is a dead one. He did not kill
all crooks who crossed his path. That may be the problem: to me the current version is more like a combination of The Spider and The Shadow, with bits of Dr. Strange tossed in.
I'm reading
Death About Town, and enjoying it immensely. Now I realize that it would not make a good comic book story, but didn't they used to have Batman do detective work before he walked into a comic book version of
Silence of the Lambs?
Yeah, I know I'm getting old and grumpy and have a hurricane pointed in my direction (we are now on the bad side of the track)
QuoteGrant is now EiC of Heavy Metal Magazine.How the mighty have fallen.
I wouldn't say that exactly. From what I heard he's trying to make it more science and surreal and less T&A. I haven't heard how it's going so who knows.
Savage Sword of Dear Jebus.Nuff said.
Quote from: Glitch Girl on October 05, 2017, 05:17:56 PM
QuoteGrant is now EiC of Heavy Metal Magazine.How the mighty have fallen.
I wouldn't say that exactly. From what I heard he's trying to make it more science and surreal and less T&A. I haven't heard how it's going so who knows.
I've never been able to understand why those have to be mutually exclusive... ;)
Ready to get your mind blown?Brian Michael Bendis signed on with DC.Exclusivly.
Im not even kidding.
Oh good, now he can complete the ruination of Dc and Marvel can maybe start putting out comics worth reading again. Yeah, I seriously doubt the second part but am damn sure the first part is true of my statement.
Im somewhere at a halfway point of Peter David's Aquaman and I cant help but notice that Aquaman had a lot of tweaks over the years.From the blue suit to being Chtullu,and thats just the stuff I have read.
Well, I suppose it's lucky I'm not reading any modern DC other than Aquaman. I can't imagine this will end well.
HT, yeah, they've been desperate to find a winning formula, and that's led to a lot of terrible, gimmicky ideas.
I imagine we wont see Bendis this year.Rebirth is in its end game,so we can either expect a new reboot after that,or Bendis will be revamping something "smaller".Maybe Batwoman,Question,Teen Titans,Legion of Super Heroes...
Thou,none of those looks survive a series.Or a writer change.Villains also have a similar thing.Ocean Master is sometimes half-Atlantean,and Black Manta is sometimes a humanoid manta.Its pretty weird.
DC fires Eddie Berganza.Took them a while,and I imagine a multitude of recent events got them to clean their own house.
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/139682-dc-comics-february-2018-solicitations.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/139682-dc-comics-february-2018-solicitations.html)
There is a Young Animal/DC crossover,Tom King once again didnt do any research,and there is that Dark Matter imprint
(is it an imprint,Im not sure?).Launching new superheroes in waves never worked before,but having DiDio and Venditti as writers doesnt fill me with confidence either.
Oh and I guess Michael Cray is a lincenced take on Marshal Law.
I missed it, what did Tom "I think I'm the only writer who's ever written Batman" King do this time?
Actually it pretty minor by King standards,but hes doing an arc about how falling friendship of Batman and Wonder Woman is tearing the DCU or something.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e0/Hiketeia.jpg/250px-Hiketeia.jpg)
They were always such great friends.Right up there with Green Arrow/Hawkman bromance.
Doomsday Clock #1 It was okay.Or at least better then the prequels,so far.
Demon Hell is Earth #1 Bland,generic,and feels like a ripoff of a Ghost Rider story.
I quite enjoyed Doomsday Clock myself. The story didn't get very far, but it feels like it's on the right foot, and they do seem to be trying to honor the style of the original. Very impressed by those 9-panel grids and text pages. Fun fact, when I was at the comic book store on Wednesday, I literally made a joke about them making the comic as long a read as possible by adding text pages like the original, without actually knowing they put those in that book. Neat.
The next New Comic Book Day (12/6) DC will be dropping the "Rebirth" logo on their comics.
http://collectededitions.blogspot.co.id/2017/11/dark-nights-metal-electric-superman.html?m=1 (http://collectededitions.blogspot.co.id/2017/11/dark-nights-metal-electric-superman.html?m=1)
Good thing about the movies is that they got DC to collect a lot of weird stuff.And finaly,Impulse by Mark Waid omnibus. :)
Also Justice League Task Force,Man Bat,and a lot o Brian K Vaughn.Cant say I follow the logic there.
So far,Priest's JL has been weird.Promising,but his take on characters is odd.
Thou,pitting the Justice League against islamic terrorists takes some jimmies. :)
DC Comics now have "DC Universe" in the corner. For the mainstream universe books I assume. I'm fine with that I guess.
Also, Tom King may or may not be writing Booster Gold. I'm iffy on this. All I ask is he not write him strictly as a surface level dudebro glory hound sell-out. That's the one thing you have you have to get right if you write Booster. Also, don't do the Tom King Batman thing where you do characterization and ideas we've seen a million times before and present it as if it's groundbreaking stuff (or as I like to call it, "Tom I-think-I'm-the-only-writer-to-ever-write-Batman King")
Catching up with Metal,and its okay.It dooesnt quite deliver on the promise of Justice League vs Dark Judges.And we are once again trying to fix Hawkman.And trying to piece together all the immortals in the DCU.There is a lot going on...
There was also talk about King writing Swamp Thing,so we can at least be certain he is working on some new project.Yey :(
Also,Bendis is now officialy working for DC.And he might be doing something Superman related.
Oh I almost forgot. Doomsday Clock.
I'm still enjoying it.
Spoiler
It's got Rorshach stealing Batman's pancakes, and the first thing Batman says to him is "You're eating my breakfast." That's pretty fun.
Huh, so Luthor turned evil again in Superman prior to this. I actually didn't know that. Oh well, years of character development down the drain, that was fun while it lasted. Also apparently DC's version of Civil War started off screen too? Or was that in Metal or something?
Im kinda stuck here,but what do you mean by Civil war?
The public distrusting super heroes. Which admittedly, is not exclusive to Civil War, so a poor comparison on my part.
Well,Watchmen did it first.
The whole Mutant Menace thing has been going on since the 1960s. I got tired of it around 1980.
Thou,I think thats a bit different from "beware the supermen" angle of everything post Miracleman,which would also be different from "superheroes would have to be sanctioned by the gov" angle of everything post Ultimates.Okay,I know Ultimates wasnt the first series with that approach,but its an example.
JL #37 Greatest comic book villain of all time,The Fan.No really,thats his name,thats his gimmick.How meta...
Damage #1 is a decent Hulk issues.So kudos,your actually better Marvel then Marvel.
Looks like Promethea will show up in (possibly join) JLA.I think that leaves only Tommorow stories unintegrated in the main DCU.
Doomsday Clock is now bi-monthly. Not surprised by that, I can live with that.
Also, Tom King is indeed doing Booster Gold, in the pages of his Batman run. Time (pun intended) will tell if he does right by Booster.
Action Comics #1000 will feature a all-star roster of writers and artists, including Marv Wolfman writing a new story based on unpublished Curt Swan art, and Bendis writing a story. Also Supes is going back to the red trunks. I imagine some fans will be happy about that. I'm actually getting warm and fuzzy about it myself.
A Hardcover collection of Grant Morrison's Batman run will include a new three page story written and drawn by Chris Burnham recapping the events of the "Resurrection of Ra's Al Ghul" crossover that Morrison's Batman took part in. That's a pretty nifty alternative to including the whole crossover.
[edit] I incorrectly referred to the red trunks as the blue trunks. I have a tendency to do that a lot lately. I think it's because people sometimes call Superman "Big Blue"
Superman getting his trunks back is the best thing to happen to modern comics in half a decade. :D
I haven't bought a Superman book in ages and ages, but I may just pick this one up.
Looks like Bendis is doing a Byrne thing with Superman.After a mini (cleaverly named Man of Steel),he will be taking over (relaunched as #1) Superman and Action Comics.
And I will probably be reading two DC titles less.Or is that fewer?
http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/140043-dc-to-actually-promote-comics-on-tv.html (http://www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/140043-dc-to-actually-promote-comics-on-tv.html)
DC will actually advertise comics on tv.Why didnt anyone think of this sooner?
Somebody has done that before, but I'm not sure if it was Marvel or Image.
Also, speaking of Bendis taking over Superman, someone from another forum (credit goes to one shanejayell, case you're curious,) posted this little potential scenario:
QuoteWhen Bendis takes over Superman....
Superman: Disassembled
Lois Lane awakens to a empty apartment. She soon discovers that her married life with Superman, Jon, ALL of it were illusions created by Dr Psycho.
Driven insane Lois kills Psycho and escapes, She bombs the Daily Planet, killing all the reporters and madly declaring war on Superman, whom she blames for her losses...
The scary thing is? He might actually do it. :blink:
Quote from: daglob on February 04, 2018, 03:44:41 PM
Somebody has done that before, but I'm not sure if it was Marvel or Image.
I was being sarcastic.
I figured that. I was kind of making a joke, but it wasn't funny, Sorry.
Good news is,DC will start a kid oriented imprint.Bad news is,mostly written by young adult novelists.Yes the same people who alianated everyone from Marvel are supposed to attract kids now.
Swamp Thing Winter Special is a rare cas of King trying too hard.Closing narration is an apology for fumbling,litterary.No really,it closes with a sports commentary from a radio...
JL #38 This would make CW writers cringe.Nobody likes me because Im not Superman,blah blah...But at least somebody calls out Batman for starting a League with Lobo.
justice League #39 The Fan cosplays as Kal Aquaman,Aquaman gets the blue suit back,people thrall about stuff on twitter,thou there are some cool continuity nods...Priests run devolved into a convulated mess.
Michael Cray #5 Lovecraftian take on Aquaman.I wonder if somebody did it before.
Superman #41 It was an okay arc.
Scooby Doo Team-Up has been doing a kind of forgotten heroes thing (including some of The Forgotten Heroes). This issue includes Angel and the Ape, The Maniacs, Stanley and Massachusetts, The Inferior 5, and I'm pretty sure I saw Scooter, too. There is a mention of Goody Rickles, and two of the characters are versions of Jerry Lewis and Bob Hope.
Wonder where Super-Hip is...
JL #40
So Fans are an organization,apparently.Those evil scumbags who just want the return of the original JLA.Wait,what?
If Giffen did it in 1988. It would have been hilarious;now its just yelling: Look at me,Im so meta.
Is it a condemnation of real fans like Superboy Prime or that one scene from the New 52 JLI? Or something more harmless?
The way you've described this book as it goes on it's almost sounding like Priest knows his run on the book is about to end and he's just lashing out at this point.
The Fan is a villain who wants Hal Jordan back,to give everyone a makeover,and to kill CW-JLA.
Its kinda like Superboy Prime,only his bitching made sense.The Fan (and The Fans) are pretty pointless.
I mean,we have Hal Jordan,JL is mostly in its classic lineup,I dont really see a problem here.Its just weirdly timed.
JL #40 Now we have Justice League crashing in the middle of a multiple side civil war and a refugee crisis,complete with a not-Black Panther.Im sure it makes sense for people who keept up with Deathstroke.
IMO,its not a good run (thou,there are worst ones),but watching it collapse under its own weight has been pretty entertaining.
So, another month of the team-up between The Scooby Crew and as many of DC's Silver Age humor characters as they can squeeze in (no Fox and Crow, though; I know it was licensed but so were Bob and Jerry. Come to think of it, no Dobie Gillis clone, either). The bad guys would have gotten away with it if it weren't for those...
And still no Super-Hip. ;)
So far Earth One books were all over the place in terms of quality(What the funt was Morrison smoking when he wrote WW EO,I dont want to know), but Green Lantern is probably the best one so far.This how an update of mythos should look like.All the familiar elements are here,just arranged differently.And its 20 minutes in the future...
https://www.cbr.com/dc-justice-league-dark-odyssey-wondercon-announcement/ (https://www.cbr.com/dc-justice-league-dark-odyssey-wondercon-announcement/)
We are getting a DCAU lineup of Justice League. :thumbup:
Also,Swamp Thing looks like Alan Moore.Oh,and Detective Chimp. :)
Also DC,its high time to revive Shadowpact.
JL #42
Simon: We get sort out all these warring tribes.What,should we go to Palestine next?
Jessica: You mean Israel?
Simon: Do I?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/cNWU2Zeh54VJC/giphy.gif)
Wow,this is Barr's Outsiders level edgy stuff right here.And Deathstroke does "what needs to be done" because League is a bunch of incompetent cucks (I dont like that buzzword,but is really approapriate here),apparently.
I wouldn't use that word around here. This is pretty much a G-rated forum.
Quote from: GhostMachine on April 07, 2018, 05:32:20 AM
I wouldn't use that word around here. This is pretty much a G-rated forum.
Palestine?Outsiders?Detective Chimp?
Quote from: HarryTrotter on April 07, 2018, 12:06:13 PM
Quote from: GhostMachine on April 07, 2018, 05:32:20 AM
I wouldn't use that word around here. This is pretty much a G-rated forum.
Palestine?Outsiders?Detective Chimp?
C***s.
Are we doing this?Really?
In this context,It was used to get across how characters are portrayed.Not any different from "Batman is really emo these days".
If it offended somebodies sensibilities,Im sorry.
Since he was using it to paraphrase a comic, it's something of a gray area. I assume that was the word actually used in the comic?
Nevertheless, Kk is right, and that is a term we wouldn't really want thrown around here, which is something I would think HT would agree with, actually, as he doesn't care for the term himself, right?
Quote from: BentonGrey on April 07, 2018, 02:53:16 PM
Since he was using it to paraphrase a comic, it's something of a gray area. I assume that was the word actually used in the comic?
Nevertheless, Kk is right, and that is a term we wouldn't really want thrown around here, which is something I would think HT would agree with, actually, as he doesn't care for the term himself, right?
Agreed.
I was just poking fun at the issue,no offense meant to anyone.Again,sorry if somebody took it too seriously.
<walks in, realizes he's rated R for language, violence, rare sexual innunindo, foul odour, tons of booze, and stuff> Well...hrmph...<walks back out>
:P
For whatever its worth, I don't care for that term myself either. I find it an ugly term, usually used by ugly (on the inside) people.
That being said, in the case of Priest's JL run, it's clearly very politically charged. It's kinda hard to discuss the book without discussing what happens in the book. I had been meaning to say, I think Priest's politically charged angle is a poor fit for the Justice League, they're usually a fairly apolitical group, at least in the stuff I've read and watched.
Lastly, I just want to point out, this is NOT a "G" rated forum. It's closer to PG or PG-13. That's what I'd heard mods and admins say on the forum for well over a decade, and more to the point, you generally can't say "Damn", "Hell" (even in a literal sense) and "crap" in a G-Rated anything, and those words are regularly used on this forum without censorship, nor can you overtly reference anything even lightly political such as racial politics (not without a fantasy stand-in, mind you). To quote a forum member, Protomorph, who I don't think is around anymore "And, btw, "family friendly" doesn't necessarily mean rated 'G'. (or else all we'd be talking about is the latest Disney schlock)
it means no profanity, no graphic violence and no explicit sexual material. Rated PG stuff. "
That quote is from 2005. I find the reference to "Disney shlock" amusing with hindsight.
Yeah,for a man who "hates" Garth Ennis,Priest ends up being worst in this case.JL is completly incompetent,or at least incapable of dealing with realistic situations.Such as civil war here.Their outdated morals keep them from ever actually acomplishing anything.They sit around arguing about due process,when they could just whack the villain.The book is pretty blatant about that.So they do end up looking like...bystanders in their own book.
Only time it lets up is to beat you over the head with its Fanboy villain whos grivances are 20 years out of date.
To borrow a term,Hilariocity at every page.
And once again,why havent the superpeople took over the world?Its been done to death,then ressurected in an event,let it go already.
SS, you're right, and that is a more accurate description. Nonetheless, a term like the one in question would be in poor taste and certainly against the spirit of the forums if used in earnest. Of course, that isn't happening here, so no worries.
I also agree about the League. I haven't read the stories in question (it's modern, ain't it? :P ), but such political minutia feels very out of place in the stories of the demigods of DC. Of course, there have been political angles in JLA stories before. Heck, the whole social relevance era of the 70s was full of it, but even those heavy-handed stories didn't seem quite as mired in the specifics of their day's political landscape. Of course, that could just be the effect of distance and the evolving zeitgeist that gives me that impression. After all, Ollie's impassioned speeches about environmentalism in O'Neil's run on the book amount to little more than, 'hey, maybe we shouldn't pour literal poison into our drinking water.' The positions seem incredibly obvious in this day and age.
In general, though, I prefer my comics to be less political. I definitely think one of the great strengths of superhero comics in general is their power as escapist fiction, as they create bright, colorful, and hopeful worlds where men and women are better than those in ours and have a great power of agency, where someone is coming to the rescue and help is just around the corner. That is undercut when you bring the petty ugliness of the real world constantly crashing into your stories.
Actually,this reminds me a lot of that time Chris Claremont took over JLA (not that I like to be reminded of Tenth Circle <_<)
From "Hey look,its that guy who did some good stuff for Marvel 2 decades ago" hype to "I played football in high school" level of self-referencing.We know you wrote Black Panther,and it was a great run that lost steam by the halfway point,but you don't have to transplant him in Deathstroke.
Which all has me even more worried about Bendis.Jessica Jones joins Supermans supporting cast or Steel becomes Luke Cage or something like that?
Quote from: HarryTrotter on April 08, 2018, 06:21:39 PM
Actually,this reminds me a lot of that time Chris Claremont took over JLA (not that I like to be reminded of Tenth Circle <_<)
From "Hey look,its that guy who did some good stuff for Marvel 2 decades ago" hype to "I played football in high school" level of self-referencing.We know you wrote Black Panther,and it was a great run that lost steam by the halfway point,but you don't have to transplant him in Deathstroke.
Which all has me even more worried about Bendis.Jessica Jones joins Supermans supporting cast or Steel becomes Luke Cage or something like that?
Or worse yet, Bendis turns Lois Lane into Jessica. ;)
All of his characters sound like mouthpieces for the same hivemind anyway,so who will know the difference?
Yeah,track record of Marvel superstars coming over to DC wasnt that great.Well,Trinity stands out as decent,but ultimatly forgettable effort.
Oh make no mistake, I'm expecting Bendis on Superman to be a flipping garbage fire. As soon as 1000 and the Action one-shot are out and I've read those I'm getting the heck out of dodge when it comes to Big Blue. Those Red Trunks doe.
Bendis would be far more suited to a gritty, non-powered, non-team crime book like Batman. Keep in mind, when I say Batman, I mean, ideally, a Batman book that has no Robin, no Batgirl, no Nightwing, no Cassandra Caine, no Spoiler, ect, because I don't trust Bendis to touch those characters with a ten-foot pole. Now, even more so, you know what book Bendis would be PERFECT for? Gotham Central. Or Renee Montoya Question. Unless of course, you're particularly attached to the Greg Rucka characterization of such characters, because B's might not synch up with them.
Speaking of not great Batman, here's what happens in the Tom King Batman run with Booster Gold:
Spoiler
Booster goes back in time and tries to prevent the Wayne's deaths....with disastrous results! How wacky and original! [sarcasm]
Well, I had low expectations for Tom King's Booster and it did not disappoint. As someone online pointed out, Jurgens already did something similar in Action Comics recently, (and I have no doubt it was better) and we're expected to lavish praise this
time because it's Tom "I think I'm the only writer to ever write Batman Booster Gold" King, but not only that, they already did this story in the pre-New 52 Booster Gold run. Only it was about preventing Ted Kord's death and preventing Barbara Gordon from getting shot. You'd think Booster would learn his lesson by some point.
In other news, the Joker plot point from John's Justice League will be followed up on in an upcoming story by Johns and Jason Fabok, who worked on that Justice League arc. It's a strange story concept (kinda like having two Wally Wests) but I'll probably pick it up because I love that creative team. Then again, Johns has never been good with Batman continuity when he actually tackles it....
Like I said,losing 2 more titles off my list is going to be noticable.Seeing I already read 2-4 titles a week.
Batman family lacks a streetwise jive talking dude,so Im out of ideas there...
As I read somewhere,Gotham Central was inspired by Bendis' Sam & Twitch.Decent title,if you can hunt it down.Which,btw,is getting a tv series written,directed and produced by Kevin Smith.So I guess only 3 episodes will ever be made.
Board ate my post,it appears,so anyway...
On the topic of comics have always been political...its not easy to compare then and now in that regards.Even as preachy and hamfisted as presented there,we all know pollution is bad.We all knew drugs are bad.There is no malicious intent in the story.
When you open an average book now,you dont see that.You see pure bile aimed at its own fans.Expecially white guys named Chad and those who dare to follow evil youtube critics.
In general;there are exceptions,ofc.All of them outside Marvel,oddly enough.
...Hanging Chad, the newest white super villian nobody knew existed nor wanted. :P
Bendis is almost as bad as Chris Claremont.
Bendis can take a story that could be done in one or two issues and pad it out to six.
Claremont can take something that could be said in five words, and say it in twenty. (If he was a speaker, he'd be someone who loves the sound of their own voice, basically.)
The difference is Claremont is a better storyteller than Bendis.
Quote from: GhostMachine on April 14, 2018, 05:45:24 PM
Bendis is almost as bad as Chris Claremont.
Bendis can take a story that could be done in one or two issues and pad it out to six.
Claremont can take something that could be said in five words, and say it in twenty. (If he was a speaker, he'd be someone who loves the sound of their own voice, basically.)
The difference is Claremont is a better storyteller than Bendis.
Exactly. Say what you will about Claremont's dialogue, (which was still better than nearly everyone else at the time,) but the stories he told were groundbreaking tour de force's. Whereas most of Bendis' are... not.
In Claremonts defense,they were paying him by the word.Not that it makes any difference for the reader.
And yes,for the record,there are plenty of Marvel superstars who came over to DC and did good stuff.Wolfman,Perez,Miller and oh yeah,Jack Kirby.But in recent times....like I said,I still remember when DC hyped Claremont and Byrne doing a JLA story and then they did Tenth Circle.Sweet Neron,that was one case when Chuck Austen taking over was an improvment.And then there was Sovereign Seven...
http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=3648 (http://www.armagideon-time.com/?p=3648)
And I fear history will repeat itself here.Because in both cases,its a decade too late for the writer...
Im taking another try at Orlando's JLofA.I wasnt wrong the first time.
Extremists,Microverse,Ray Palmer,Sentient Planet...references dont make a story.And a rotating team of artists doesnt help.
You have the JLA fighting a bunch of Roman-styled chimera-riding dudes.If that wasnt done in webcomic style,it would have been awesome.
But worst of all,it reminds you that you could be reading better comics.
Spoiler
Vril Dox
is in No Justice #2.And thats awesome.Could we see a
Spoiler
L.E.G.I.O.N
revival?
Superman Special feels like its setting up Stone to be a new
Captain America General Glory.Considering the style of Dark Matter line,Im surprised there isnt a General Glory book.
Hawkman by Venditti and Hitch.That could work.Mind you,we will probably get 5 issues in 3 years,but it could work.Thou,they seem more fit for Katar then Carter.
Man of Steel #1 wasnt all that terrible.But nothing really happens (a new supporting character is introduced and we get some info on the villain),so I cant judge it yet.
Man of Steel #2 Still very little to go on.We know something happened to Supermans family.I hope Bendis didnt go there.
Justice League #1.Surprisingly good actually.Snyder works out a sort of Justice League Unlimited by the way of Grant Morrison approach.A small complain,but this really shows how messed up the post Rebirth continuity is.
Martian Manhunter was just absent from the League a long time.Costume display in the Hall of Justice shows a lot of people who were never in the League post-Flashpoint.
On the other hand,whole bunch of cameos(we havent seen Adam Strange in a while before this),John Stewart and Hawkgirl in the League,and League of Doom.
And an announced Vertigo reboot.Whole approach seems to be "woke people writing for woke people". They hired Zoe Quinn to write a comic.Let that sink in for a moment. :banghead:
Quote from: HarryTrotter on June 09, 2018, 07:55:18 AM
And an announced Vertigo reboot.Whole approach seems to be "woke people writing for woke people".
And promoting diversity and addressing social issues is a problem because...
Well,we could argue,but whats the point?
Im gonna do my part and not buy any of it and you do your part and preorder all of that.
Thou,I would suggest looking at solicitations themselves before trying to bait someone.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on June 09, 2018, 10:18:04 PM
Well,we could argue,but whats the point?
Im gonna do my part and not buy any of it and you do your part and preorder all of that.
Thou,I would suggest looking at solicitations themselves before trying to bait someone.
Personally, I'm curious why you'd think there was anything to bait to begin with. But maybe that's just me.
Passive-agressive much?
I'm stepping in and telling you two to behave before things go too far and the mods step in. Let's remeber, this is a forum based on respect and all that stuff. And before someone says someone else started it...I don't care, I'm ending it before it becomes something beyond where we are.
Jeez...can't believe I'm the one having to step in...
Quote from: Deaths Jester on June 10, 2018, 05:03:38 AMJeez...can't believe I'm the one having to step in...
That's like when the thief and the psionicist become the front-line of combat. "Stuff" just got real!
I've been a Plastic Man fan since the '60s, so I read the first issue of this new mini-series. Now, he's always been kind of silly and jokey, but this version reminds me of some kind of pool character.
Tom King is doing his own version of Identity Crisis.
(http://memecrunch.com/meme/UUA/run-you-fools/image.jpg)
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on June 14, 2018, 12:54:50 AM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on June 10, 2018, 05:03:38 AMJeez...can't believe I'm the one having to step in...
That's like when the thief and the psionicist become the front-line of combat. "Stuff" just got real!
Well..that's fitting seeing as I usually play a thief...but I'd never be caught alive near a psionicist....those things are useless...
Batman #50,well that was pointless.And it only took 50 issues for this punchline.I can see why people are calling this DC's Last Jedi.
Oddly enough Alfred/Bruce relationship is the only thing King gets right.
Man of Steel #6 wasnt just pointless.It was also a stupid mess.I wont be reading from now on,which means Im pretty much done with (ongoing) DC.
Techinically it's "Fly you fools" [as in use the Eagles LOL] but yeah. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Tom King is the most overated comics writer...ever? It really does seem like manufactured hype.
Batman #50. What a goshdarn mess that was. I heard it was bad and then I looked at some more articles about it and I was like....oh for eff's sake...
Spoiler
Tom King turning Bane into a evil mastermind who's behind everything Norman Osborn style, apparently in complete disregard for what every other writer has been doing with the Rebirth narrative (??? Am I getting that right? I did read that right right? We're supposed to believe Bane had a hand in the whole Flashback/Rebirth thing even though we already know it was Doc Manhattan?) And of course we gotta have a confrontation between Batman and Flashpoint Batman...which we already saw in Convergence. And I doubt it will be as good here as it was in that.
Yeah I did see that Bruce Alfred scene and that part rings true, not sure about the rest.
Last Jedi? Yeah that sounds about right. On the plus side, between Tom King and Bendis both wetting the bed I get to be super cathartic at watching pretty much everyone turn on them and I'm like "Well yeah? You didn't see that coming?"
If I compare the two,Man of Steel was a worse mess.Probably because I didnt keep up with Batman since Rebirth.Actually,since Paul Dini and Grant Morrison tbh.Also,nothing I saw from Tom Kings Baman made me interested.Ha ha,Catwoman knows Superman is Clark Kent because glasses are a stupid disguise,ha ha. <_<
Anyway,this whole Man of Steel mini was there to put Supermans family on a bus.Almost a literal case here.Love him or hate him,there is a distinctive voice and style Bendis has,and even that is missing.Its a lazy attempt at cleaning the slate before another relaunch.
The DC Batman Day reprints this year will be Batman: Lil Gotham and Sean Murphy's much ballyhoo'd Batman: White Knight. No Tom King Batman reprint this year...I wonder why that could be? *trollface* in all seriousness though, I wonder, could they have possibly chosen the reprints based on the Batman #50 backlash or is that too recent for them to have done so?
Also James Robinson is adding the female Firefly from Gotham into the DCU in his Detective Comics run.
Not that anyone cares, but in the 3rd issue of Plastic Pool Man we find that some shape-shifter is framing Plas for murder.
Waitaminit! The Skrulls really HAVE invaded the DC Universe!!
Either that or a Durlan maybe...
There's always White Martians.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 24, 2018, 03:29:03 PM
There's always White Martians.
True. I wonder what would happen if the Skrulls disguised themselves as White Martians? Or vice versa? And why would DC even bother with this after The Secret Invasion?
After rereading Final Crisis,its still as confusing as I remember it.And the whole Evil Mary Marvel is stupid frankly.
But Mr Tawky Tawny beating Kalibak,that was awesome. :D
(https://fourthage.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/final-crisis-6-tawny-bites.png)
(https://fourthage.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/final-crisis-6-tawny.png)
#Batnudity #Batwang #maturecomics #resetthecounter
Quote from: HarryTrotter on September 21, 2018, 02:00:45 PM
#Batnudity #Batwang #maturecomics #resetthecounter
You mean they got around to the OTHER meaning to "whipping out the batarang"?
Not that we needed another evidence that DC doesnt know what the hell are they doing,but here it is. :rolleyes:
They are trying to tell meaningful stories in the comic media that will be a beacon to the next generation.
No, I didn't say that with a straight face. What they are doing is using the "Kitchen Sink" method to try and sell comics. I'm afraid there will be more "sink" in it.
This whole naked Batman thing is one of the more ridiculous in a long line of ridiculous ideas to come out of modern comics. Why? Just...why?
Anyway, anyone still reading
Aquaman? I'm probably a few months behind now, but I'm really not enjoying the whole Corm Rath as king arc. It's not bad, but the art is really just a poor fit for the book, especially considering how
amazing the art on this book has been since the beginning. On a minor note, I'm really ready for the stupid long hair to go away. I'm just disappointed with every issue I open. There's been a ton of just floundering around (sorry!), with not much happening and the plot not advancing, and the recent (to me) twist:
Spoiler
with Mera and Aquaman having to split up as she takes the throne because...plot....is really stupid. Mera as Queen is a great idea, but the direction they're going with it just seems unnecessary.
I see I'm now several issues behind, and it will be a while before I see if things improve. Has anyone read "Drowned Earth"? Is it worth picking up?
I dont really see any reason other then "we might get some mainstream media attention".
Which probably did more harm then good,but nobody thought that far.
Doomsday Clock:Spoiler
The little explanation for the new Bubastis was actually pretty neat. I enjoyed seeing Ozy's little ploy kinda fall apart, and of course, Doc Manhattan finally shows up in this thing and that's pretty cool. And on that note: not to be outdone by Batman: Damned, blue genitals confirmed! Don't worry, it's only one panel, the rest is blue backside.
But who cares about the Watchmen book, because DC also put out the only thing people are going to be talking about right now. Tom King's
Heroes in Crisis came out and spoiler alert, it's complete garbage of the kind we haven't had from DC in, actually quite a while, at LEAST since the start of the New 52 (Oh wait, I forgot about Bendis' Superman, oh well moving on), and EVERYBODY hates it. And once again, because it's Tom King and includes his terrible version of Booster Gold I'm glad that's the reaction, but honestly? It's not worth it.
Spoiler
We're introduced to the premise as advertised leading up to the book's release: a "Sanctuary" where heroes with PTSD can stay and recover. It's a wooden shack in the middle of Kansas or somesuch. By the end of the issue EVERYBODY there is dead except Harley and Booster Gold. This includes former Titan Hotspot aka Johto, Citizen Steel, Blue Jay, Lagoon Boy, a character I'm told is Tattoed Man, and......
.....Roy Harper and Wally West. Oh and every single one of these characters dies offscreen. No heroic blaze of glory, as usual.
So yeah, people are cheesed off and rightly so. I've heard comparisons to Identity Crisis and I think that's a fair comparison (I'm going to guess that for my money IC will have been the better book, but again, I really don't care for Tom King) and yeah, it's just stupid and unnecessarily and insulting and begs the question "What was point of bringing Wally back for Rebirth only to kill him off?" Are they going to bring Roy and Wally back? Of course they will. At some point, possibly by the end of this mini. But that's not what's out this week. What's out this week is a book where DC jettisoned the concept for their mini for the opening issue, proving they had no intention of actually using it, and relying on tired, contemptuous shock value death.
I mean, I knew it was going to be BAD, but I had no clue it was going to be THIS bad.
Ok,good news/horrible news time.
Good news, Young Justice will be back in its original lineup.
Horrible news...Brian Michael Bendis is writing it.
Yep, was thinking of posting that myself.
I spoke a while back here, about the possibility of Bendis writing the Batman books and getting his hand on Tim Drake. Well, apparently I should have kept my mouth shut, because now Brian "Have I ever really written anyone in character? Really?" Bendis gets to write ruin Tim Drake, the Connor Kent Superboy (who arguably came pre-ruined in The New 52) and the newly restored Bart Allen aka Impulse. Because apparently no idea is too terrible for DC. They don't care if the actual fans will hate it, they'll do it anyway! That's the kind of dare that just revs up their engine! Geez, DC, at least space this stuff out. You're not even two issues into Heroes in Crisis yet.
I was going to say reset the counter,but at this point...wait,its been 10 days.
On a more positive note, I found out today that Amazon's got a listing for the final volume of Ostrander's Suicide Squad. May 2019. Quite a ways away but it is coming out. Yay! Nice to see DC can still get some things right. It's funny, just the day before I was wondering if it was ever going to come out.
Heroes in Crisis #2You thought it couldn't get dumber? Tom King's just getting started! [
EDIT, it's two years too late, but I have been informed the first issue of the book was
literally titled "Just Warming Up!"]
Spoiler
Harley Quinn, on the run, is cornered by Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman and beats Superman and Batman easily, fights off WW (with WW grunting from a hit) and escapes while Wonder Woman just stands there. This involves Harley getting ahold of WW's lasso, strangling Batman with it, forcing him to tell the truth and tell her about his weapon to use against Superman (Kryptonite in his utility belt) which she then steals, and uses to incapacitate Superman. You couldn't make this crap up if you tried.
Also Poison Ivy apparently was killed off-screen, but she might be revealed to be alive later in a later issue.
Only 2 issues in and this book is now firmly established as Cry for Justice bad. How do you DO THAT?
Oh, also from earlier in the week, over in Nightwing, Nightwing is no longer named Dick Grayson. He is now named Ric Grayson. No seriously. How did I miss that?
Okay, the combat scenario is rather clever, but in this instance I can't see it happening.
A comment I saw on a another site described it like this "I could come up with a better way to write that fight, but you shouldn't try to make a GOOD version of that fight, because there isn't one. If you have to have it happen, you need to change your plot".
I'd have to agree there. This is remarkably easy to fix. Either have only one or two of them there, have a different roster of less powerful heroes, or have Harley get some help. Take the Identity Crisis fight with Deathstroke, which this immediately got compared to. Yes, it was criticized as soon as the book came out, and rightfully so, but at least you had lesser heroes (relatively speaking) present, and Doctor Light, KNOWING he was going to end up encountering members of the Justice League, specifically hired backup from someone more capable to protect him (Slade). Mind you, Doctor Light in his first appearance in JLA fought the JLA and won, but that wasn't really the issue since he was consistent in IC with some other stories he appeared in (most notably, Ostrander was the one who turned him into a wimp in his Suicide Squad run)
You can do the fight, you just have to add some modifiers. If it was Harley with a Luthor-style strength-enhancing suit, or a superpowered weapon (like that Apocalypse hammer she has in her own comics) Or a different character (it actually WOULD be believable if it was Deathstroke or Prometheus). It's all about how you execute it. Take Batman, for example. The idea that he can beat anyone should be silly (and sometimes it is) given the differences in power sets. What makes it work is Batman is almost always written to be clever, prepared, and resourceful, as in having the talent and the right tools for the right occasion. Luthor's also been portrayed that way, like his fight with Grodd and Tala in JLU "You wouldn't believe what this cost me". Not so much here. It just happens because it needs to happen. Harley AND the writer were written into a corner.
In any case, it's been speculated since issue 1 that this book is, to some degree being editorially-driven (fans have been placing the blame firmly on Didio, and this does seem like his kind of thing) and I saw a comment saying the Booster Gold/Flash scenes in this issue being drawn by a different artist could be a sign that they hastily added in at the proverbially last minute, so it's possible the writing got a little sloppy as a result.
Im pretty sure DC only keeps Didio around as a fall guy at this point.
DIDIO!!!
On the other hand,this seems just unoriginal enough to be Kings idea.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on November 01, 2018, 06:46:37 AM
(most notably, Ostrander was the one who turned him into a wimp in his Suicide Squad run)
It goes back further than that. He was a wimp ever since he showed up in Wolfman's Titans. By his last appearance there, he was basically a joke.
Well, drawing a line from King's Batman to this, someone online said King has this habit of depicting Batman as incompetent at what he does. I haven't read much of his Batman run, but that doesn't sound surprising. I mean, again, one of the things he explores through Batman/Bruce is him being, well, to quote the Christian Bale version "A guy who dresses like a bat...clearly has issues." And again, because he's Tom King, he writes like it's this groundbreaking interpretation when it's well established material for most of my lifetime.
There's also all the therapy stuff, which fans say is also terrible. And honestly, I don't even bother reading it in the pages I've seen online. If King failed with Booster Gold's characterization in his Batman run, and opens this with exploitative shock value death that carries no emotional weight (other than annoyance) because this is a magic fictional world where people in red onsies come back to life by running so fast they travel through time, why should I trust him to handle PTSD themes with these characters, when he can't even write them as well as the versions of them on Cartoon Network? [
Edit: OH! I should probably add, I'm talking about Batman and Booster Gold as depicted in the various Batman cartoons, JLU and Justice League Action, not the caricature versions of the Titans in Teen Titans Go.]
Quote from: kkhohoho on November 01, 2018, 12:22:13 PM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on November 01, 2018, 06:46:37 AM
(most notably, Ostrander was the one who turned him into a wimp in his Suicide Squad run)
It goes back further than that. He was a wimp ever since he showed up in Wolfman's Titans. By his last appearance there, he was basically a joke.
Fair enough. I actually was thinking earlier I should have phrased that differently. I shouldn't have said Ostrander started that, just that he did it too.
Dont get me started on Kings Omega Men.What an overhyped load of...dont get me started. :banghead:
Random thought,industrys mercenary logic dictates that if something did ok in the 70's or 80's,it doomed to an cursed unlife of reboots and retries(Outsiders come to mind).But DC had a lot of newer stuff that never really got a second chance like Shadowpact,Checkmate or Manhunter.Too soon?
The industry likes to use these familiar names because people will recognize them, even if they don't necessarily know the property first hand, so that at least gives them a bit of publicity jolt, but they seem to have trouble making a new iteration that will last past 2 years or so. That happens a lot with Doom Patrol. And then you'll get a lot of stuff come up to coincide with TV and movies. Having Black Lightning and the Outsiders appear in Detective Comics? Not actually a bad idea, since people will buy Batman books. I've said before, the best thing to ever come out of the Suicide Squad movie was that Ostrander's run got reprinted and I love those comics to death, warts and all. We just got word that a Secret Six show is going to be rolling out in the future. Headed by Bill Lawrence of all people (so I expect his wife Krista Miller, aka Jordon from Scrubs, will make an appearance, as will Ted from Scrubs) so whether it's any good or not (Scrubs' mix of goofy comedy and bittersweet drama might actually work for Secret Six) I genuinely look forward to another twelve issues or so of the Secret Six comic when that show actually rolls out.
Im not a zero sum person,Im not saying we have x when we should have Y.But titles I mentioned had decent runs and decent sales a decade or so ago.So I find it weird that DC never attempted to reboot them.
I guess Justice League Dark sounds better then Shadowpact and similar reasons.Whats Bill Willingham up to these Days,actually?
Green Lantern #1 was good.Grant Morrison and Liam Sharp are the right people for this job.Its not even that hard to pick up,after I missed the last decade of GL stories.
It even teases a GL/GA teamup. :)
Oh yeah,we are getting another Outsiders revival.I hate being right sometimes.
Young Justice #1
(http://i.bittwiddlers.org/Kgy.gif)
An entire issue of people asking "Is that a gun?A REAL gun?" and Impuls being IMPULSIVE <_< .Oh and bad guys stoping to discuss how Earths law enforcement is savage and fascist.Im not abridging that,they actually pause with wrecking the city to say that. :rolleyes:
Maybe I dont know where the moral high ground is,but extradimensional invaders aren't on it.
That's out now huh? Well, it's Bendis, so I wasn't expecting it to be good. When they first announced Young Justice by Bendis I knew I wanted nothing to do with it because after he phoned his way through that last volume of Guardians and his atrocious work on Superman, I didn't trust him enough to want to read something new by him anyway.
If he wants to ruin or kill Tim Drake, he can go ahead as far as I'm concerned. I'm not invested in DC's current stories anymore anyways after garbage like Heroes in Crisis.
Its not quite peak Bendis,but its up there.
Also,the issue starts with some guys on Gemworld observing how Gemworld changes whenever there is a Crisis on Earth.If they think they had it bad,they should see the Legion of Superheroes.
Lol well, that's certainly true.
No it's not Bendis at his most infamous, but that shouldn't be the bar. We should expect better with these characters no matter who's writing.
Any writer who looks at Clark, Lois and Jon as a Superman family, arguably the best development in the Rebirth era, and a genuine step forward and says "I don't want to write them as a family, or honor the work of the previous writers and I do want to anger the fans" and writes them out in the vary first arc, makes it a mystery to be explained later (aka lazy) and does it the way they did it (they go explore the galaxy with a terrorist supervillain who incited violent acts all over the world, and no, I don't care why Lois and Jon did this, I don't care, because there is no possible good reason to do this) isn't worthy of being defended and doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. The ONE thing Bendis needed to NOT do was write out Lois and Jon and it's the first thing he did (actually it's the fifth, the first four were, in order, make fun of the trunks in the very first book to bring them back, introduce a generic strong guy villain, have Supes get his butt kicked in his own book, and retcon Krypton right after Supes already revisited Kypton in the very previous arc)
Also, I don't like Patrick Gleason's art.
I've always thought if Bendis as a hack. His talent isn't in the actual writing. It is in padding things out, and making a story last two to three times longer than it should.
Also, I have a sketch of Kilowog done by Gleason for me at a con, but I agree he's not a good choice for the book.
Maybe, but pretty much everybody was writing for the trade in the Jemas era, so something about Bendis' writing must have stood out to make him a hit. I would point to his grounded gritty crime work on books like Jessica Jones and Daredevil, and his work on Ultimate Spider-Man. Mind you, the fact that Bendis hasn't really grown as a writer in any meaningful way in all this time may have a lot to do with that. He's still padding out stories, and of course, my current least favorite trope of his, taking story-related info fans want to know about the story, and holding off on revealing it so he can make it a "mystery" to be revealed later.
Any way, I'm sure I've said this many many times (HT has touched on this as well, calling his character voices a "hive mind") but one of the big problems I have with B is that he's just not suited to just any old superhero genre or book. Marvel (and now DC) are putting him on books he's just not suited for, and while some writers, perhaps one could say many writers, are flexible and can write different Marvel and DC characters, Bendis really can't. His character voice range is incredibly limited and poor, and even well established and well defined characters like, say, Emma Frost, ended up sounding wrong when written by him, saying things they just wouldn't say in any other book written by any other writer.
Bendis wasn't well suited to writing Avengers, and he's really not really suited to writing Superman. And while he does have experience writing teen superheroes with Ultimate Spider-Man, I just don't trust him enough to try out his Young Justice, and any time I hear bad things about it it's just going to reinforce that notion.
Batman and Justice League v1.Somehow the idea of a DC manga sounds a Lot more interesting then it is.The art is good But the story...
-Why is Joker allowed to sell energy drinks?
-Why are he and Lex Luthor messing with magic?
-Why can Superman see lay lines?
-Whats Ocean Masters beef with Batman?
Best part is when Gordon sees Bruce Wayne with his entire torso bandaged and shrugs it off because "Bruce Wayne is a playboy,this has got to do with that lifestyle".
See kid,thats just some weird sex thing. :lol:
Well in the interest of fairness...the Adam West Batman show was very much "guilty" of that first one. Joker and Penguin are out of prison constantly with everyone pretty much acting like they've served their time and not that concerned about them walking the streets and showing up at public venues....or running for mayor. Yes, that version of Joker wasn't a serial killer anarchist terrorist bomber, and Penguin wasn't a ruthless mob boss, but they were still career criminals.
I say guilty in quotes because the Adam West show was a goofball comedy. The sillier, the better. Somehow I doubt that defense works as well for this manga.
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that that manga is even more bat guano insane than Batman Ninja.
Its sort of funny because this Joker looks like Heath Ledgers Joker doing a Cesar Romero Joker cosplay.
Its less insane and more really freaking contrived.Like somebody beat the elements with a hammer until they fit where they wanted them to be.
In other news,I finished Infinity Inc v1.I cant say I was ever a fan of Thomas' Gold Age by the way of 70's approach(this is early 80's actually).But its okay.And Im not sure if this is just "by todays standards" but some of the costumes are fashion disasters.coughFurycough.
I did make fun of Outsiders and Defenders for being relaunched every few years,but recently DC did an even weirder one...Freedom Fighters.
Because they were on CW?I mean,come on FF never made it past 10 issues,so why are they doing it again?
Im not saying Outsiders and FF are taking a slot from something potentially better,but where is the bloody Shadowpact?Manhunter?Hitman?Impulse?
Or that JSA relaunch you teased 3 years ago,for that matter?
Meh, I'm just waiting for that Bill Lawrence Secret Six tv show to get made so we'll get another comic. And if we're lucky it'll last as long as the previous volume. Or you know, be an ongoing at all and not just a mini series.
On CBS?I assume its going to be canceled after one season and picked up by CW.Also,from the creator of Scrubs---that inspires confidence. <_<
Hey, man, I don't know what to tell you, I really liked Scrubs.
Man and Superman- best Superman story I read in a while.A sort of not really origin story where we see Clark coming to Metropolis,meeting Lois and everyone and donning the costume.You know,the thing Smallvile didnt do for 10 seasons.😉
Yeah,that show lasted longer then Dynasty.
Anyway,Detective comics #1000 is fast approaching.Tom King,Brian Michael Bendis and Kevin Smith in one place.Scary.
Also Paul Dini and Danny Oneill.So thats a positive.
Nothing from Chuck Dixon,Alan Grant or even Grant Morrison?Thats a waste.
Detective comics #1000 was good,but not quite as epic as I hoped.
About what I'd expect from the talent involved and in this era of the comics. I may get around to reading it in the future.
So DC Universe will have the whole library od DC comics (with a 1 year delay for new stuff) so thats the reason to get the subscription.That and Doom Patrol.
Also,Im not sure about Vertigo,but still its 80 years of comics.
Let's put it to you this way. How can you possibly justify putting out the Doom Patrol tv show on your streaming service, and then not offering Vertigo comics on the same service? That's like saying "There will be no Titans comics, or anything that indulges in grimdark, nothing by Geoff Johns, really."
And we all know neither DC or Marvel will ever have a subscription-based digital comics service that doesn't have a delay of a year-or so for new stuff, because if they did, someone at Comixology would probably mail them a Katana (and no, I didn't make that up, someone in the entertainment industry really did that apparently).
More importantly, DC is finally making the damn service available to people outside the U.S., and it's free for one day. Slow clap, DC, now explain why it took nearly half a year. No really, go ahead, I wanna hear an actual reason, and not a B.S. PR busswords reason, an actual answer a human being might say to another human being.
That wouldnt make sense,but this is DC,so we have to give them the benefit of a doubt.
By Vertigo I meant more other imprints outside the regular DC.Like Paradox Press,or Helix or Milestone.
Im also wondering if everything from 80 years survived.
Well, Milesone I think should be on there. The Milestone characters have crossed over with the main DC a few times. I mean, Static alone...
QuoteIm also wondering if everything from 80 years survived.
Eh, probably not?
I think everything ever published by DC SHOULD be there.But its not a perfect world,at least people will get to read things that were never collected like Spectre or Hawkworld.
[EDIT: the following post is a response to a post that has since been deleted responding to my "katana/'No Cuts'" joke.]
*chuckles* Yeah, this is the case where context is everything. I kinda mixed my metaphors. The original anecdote was that legendary anime director Hayao Miyazaki sent the Western localizers of his movies a katana and a note with two words - "No Cuts." I don't know if that story is accurate, and if so how seriously people took this, but I just loved the sheer audacity that someone in the industry would actually do that.
Doesn't quite work in the example I gave since the "No Cuts" part doesn't apply.
There are people who shouldn't have a katana, though. I'd probably be tempted to use it...
Careful,thats cultural appropriation now-a-days...
I mean, I could have said Comixology could leave Marvel or DC a horse's head in their bed, but I liked the Katana example better.
Im now imagining that scene with Geoff Johns. ☺️
Oh yeah,speaking of that scene,the horse head was real.They didnt kill a horse,they got the head from a slaughterhouse.But that doesnt really make it better.
On the more topical matters- Im continuing with the Post Crisis Superman stuff and we got Braniac.Who in this version,is a circuis mentalist who gets posesed by disembodied mind of a Coluan scientist Vril Dox.Makes sense as much as anything else,I guess.
Funny question,were these traveling carnevals/freakshows still around in the 80's?I imagined they died out with the advent of tv.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on April 04, 2019, 07:16:47 PM
On the more topical matters- Im continuing with the Post Crisis Superman stuff and we got Braniac.Who in this version,is a circuis mentalist who gets posesed by disembodied mind of a Coluan scientist Vril Dox.Makes sense as much as anything else,I guess.
Funny question,were these traveling carnevals/freakshows still around in the 80's?I imagined they died out with the advent of tv.
They had something like them in county fairs, at least in the south, maybe into the '90s. They were definitely fading, though.
I guess Kansas counts as south?Or close enough. ☺️
Thou in comics,freak shows are alive to this day.
I don't understand why we've never gotten the Timmverse version of Brainiac in the comics, because that is basically the perfect distillation of the idea.
Didnt they?There are so many versions that I couldnt keep track...
And speaking of unnececary convoluted origins- Supergirl is introduced- this time she was a shapeshifting blob from another universe with memories of Lana Lang.Later on she/it fused with Linda Denvers- I think I talked a lot about that series- and then got replaced with the Supermans couisin version.
Still less confusing then what they did with Hawkman.
I went to the circus as a kid in the nineties, but I don't remember if it was a travelling circus.
Well, the Geoff John revision retconned all previous appearances of the Post-Crisis Brainiac were robots, "advanced scouts", and the real one was some guy hooked up to a bunch of wires and machines on some space ship somewhere (this got made into the animated movie Superman: Unbound). Johns pretty much did the exact same retcon with the Toyman, btw.
Anyway, what's really relevant is Convergence. The plot of that involved Brainiac bottling up portions of every DC Universe ever made, proving they still existed (and there were a bunch of tie-in comics featuring those different characters, such as a 2 issue revival of the Post-Crisis Suicide Squad and a Titans story where Lian Harper came back to life).
Anyway, this storyline featured EVERY version of Brainiac ever, including the DC Universe Online version and YES, the Timmverse version. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-bH5xhe4HGak/VR6x-XwA6rI/AAAAAAAAjWo/MhGUfTpnbsE/s1600/coverg%2B0-06.jpg)
Mind you, in fairness, that COULD be the version of Brainiac from the animated movie Superman: Brainiac Attacks, since they used the exact same character design and art style.
In any case, I really gotta read those Superman comics sometimes. I'm been wanting to for a while.
Ah,the Doombot defense.I remember the movie,but I cant remember if he was Vril Dox...not that its really important.
Funny,I remember Convergence tie-ins but I barely remember the main story.Earth 2 heroes do stuff,Deimos betrays them and things get rebooted.
In other funny moments,Jimmy fantisizes about Superman banging his mom. 🙂
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IyQ_DRX2TR8/W5BW5WdWGFI/AAAAAAAAKw8/Vx8p_VdXFAM8UtQfWhAN3yvp4ZPtE93SQCLcBGAs/s400/Superman017F.JPG)
Also,white hair is an odd choice if shes supposed to be around 40.
The DC wiki says the Johns Brainiac is Vril Dox.
I remember the Convergence Booster Gold issues. They were a direct followup to the Future's End Booster Gold comics, which themselves were less a Future's End tie-in and more a lead-in to Convergence. Those were the good old days before Tom King got his hands on Booster.
The Brainiac in Panic in the Sky has the Robin Hood/Green Arrow style facial hair. Bizarre.
Heroes in Crisis #8:Hey, guess what?
Spoiler
Wally West killed all those people.
What a garbage story. And Tom King says online to ignore the "clickbait" spoilers online and to buy the book and read it yourself. As if that will make a difference. There are people online who HAVE read the whole book and they hated it too.
Quote from: HarryTrotter on April 05, 2019, 06:38:32 PM
Ah,the Doombot defense.I remember the movie,but I cant remember if he was Vril Dox...not that its really important.
Funny,I remember Convergence tie-ins but I barely remember the main story.Earth 2 heroes do stuff,Deimos betrays them and things get rebooted.
In other funny moments,Jimmy fantisizes about Superman banging his mom. 🙂
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-IyQ_DRX2TR8/W5BW5WdWGFI/AAAAAAAAKw8/Vx8p_VdXFAM8UtQfWhAN3yvp4ZPtE93SQCLcBGAs/s400/Superman017F.JPG)
Also,white hair is an odd choice if shes supposed to be around 40.
Almost like necroposting, but I know of a couple of women who's hair turned white before they turned 40. One was described to someone who was looking for her as "young woman, old hair". While I think you are right that Mrs. Olsen's hair is white because she is "old", white hair in comics also indicates platinum blonde.
I assume that was the idea.And it makes more sense.
Anyway,just random- Batman watching Mark of Zorro on THAT night.Funny how that element persisted for the past 40 years.I mean,its a cool nod to Batmans pulp roots,but its kinda on the nose.I mean,its not even important what movie was it,important part is that they went to see a movie.But you can look at it as an inspiration.
Funny,Batman Begins changes it to a live production of Faust.Notice how that tiny detail puts a different spin on things?
Looking for something else, Amazon popped this up based on my previous browsing history":
https://www.amazon.com/Doomsday-Clock-Geoff-Johns/dp/1401294812/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_img_6?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=9M80T0KWQBWNKX0VMVRY
I know it is running late... but 2080? :D
I am assuming someone is having a little fun with the placeholder date.
At least we will have some reading material while we sit in a crater and roast a rad-boar.
So further up on this page, there was a post by me from April 1 (how appropriate) where I said the DC Universe Streaming service would finally be available to non-U.S. audiences. Well I was wrong. Apparently I misread an article about how for one day, to mark the 80th anniversary of Batman, the service would be free to U.S. based users. So yeah, not the same thing.
I believe Levitation is
Spoiler
Samuel Lane
Just read all of Young Justice because they have an earth 3 issue coming.
EARTH 3 YJ CHARACTERS YO!
Nope. I was totally wrong and wouldn't guessed that in a million years.
Dan Didio is no longer in charge of DC.
I'm seeing a lot of comic creators, who obviously have a conflict of interest, talking about what a great guy he is, while you have someone like Linkara, who has no such loyalty, willing to throw the book at him with expert aplomb. Rob Liefield (whose thrown some shade online many times in the past) also bashed him. And all I can do is once again say to quote The Wasp: It's about damn time.
I'm hearing people doomsay about how things are going to get worse going forward, but honestly I'm a bit skeptical about that myself.
Gail Simone tweeted that Didio took credit for the bad stuff, and let other creators take credit for the good stuff. Maybe that's true, but I don't personally believe it and Linkara says he's heard the exact opposite.
For those coming in late, or those who forgot (nevar forget) Didio's list of sins include:
-Wanting to kill Grayson at the end of Infinite Crisis.
-Hating the weekly series "52" and claiming the much-derided Countdown to Final Crisis was "52 done right" (it was not)
-Wouldn't let Stephanie Brown have a display case in the batcave after she (temporarily) died.
-During his run on Outsiders, he wrote a harsh real life critic into the comic and portrayed him in a less-than flattering light.
-A ban on (nearly) any appearances by Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown, going to far as to prevent the latter from even appearing in the Smallville comic continuation of all things (they shared a writer)
-Banning Kate Kane (Batwoman) and Renee Montoya from getting married, as well as Aquaman and Mera.
-Being rude people at conventions who suggested DC hire more women.
"Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives. They are committed to being that person and committed to defending others at the sacrifice of their own personal interests... People in the Batfamily, their personal lives basically suck."
~Dan Didio."
Don't forget maybe ****ing JG Jone's wife.
For those who've never heard of him, JG Jones was the artist who drew the first six issues of Final Crisis. He didn't draw the last one.
Apparantly there was a reason for that.
I think much of it though they would be reluctant to say just has to do with an unstable time in the industry raising tensions. IDW having major problems for example and as a result we're seeing the big names who were working there or at Dynamite revolving back to Marvel and DC, something most of them said they would never do again and noted said while business was good. Else I don't take any of it personally, these people all have history with one another between the panels and who knows what drives those choices they make. Lastly in his case it was bound to happen. You don't stand for being top dog and shuffled into the sidelines when you work in the arts. He knows well he can just go across the street and get a job with higher accolades. Same as Bendis did more or less with his jump from Marvel to DC.
Quote from: kkhohoho on February 22, 2020, 05:42:02 PM
Don't forget maybe ****ing JG Jone's wife.
For those who've never heard of him, JG Jones was the artist who drew the first six issues of Final Crisis. He didn't draw the last one.
Apparantly there was a reason for that.
I've never heard that one! Wow, that's a thing. Yeah, I remember JG Jones, I read Final Crisis back in the day, and I do remember the art changing for it. That's interesting.
QuoteI think much of it though they would be reluctant to say just has to do with an unstable time in the industry raising tensions. IDW having major problems for example and as a result we're seeing the big names who were working there or at Dynamite revolving back to Marvel and DC, something most of them said they would never do again and noted said while business was good.
Yeah, that's kinda what I've read. Didio being let go apparently came from on high (WB) and they've been shuffling chairs in general lately. People speculate that whoever's put in charge will likely be a yes man who will play things safe and bland, which of course, doesn't sound terribly appealing.
Someone at Scans_daily put it really well: the guy who we may be getting in the future may be the kind of guy who would never approve Watchmen but would totally greenlit Before Watchmen. That's a pretty good analogy.
Personally I'm not super attached to DC right now anyway. I didn't like what Tom King did with Batman, Booster Gold or Wally West or what Bendis did with Superman (I've mentioned as much earlier in this thread) and now that Doomsday Clock is over and after dropping Shazam after delays and fill in artists, I wasn't buying any new DC books. I mostly buy the reprints, and honestly I like those better. See, I don't feel like I really need to read the new stuff. I've still got 52 and the Ostander Suicide Squad to finish, so I'm good for now.
As for IDW, yeah, we discussed that on this board a while back. I've not heard much lately but I don't really seek out that kinda information, I usually come across it by accident. But the Didio thing naturally made headlines.
Mostly when you say things like loyalty. Thing is it's not real for any of us. We all are moral and upstanding and the masters of our own destiny when the fridge is stocked. When times are tough though and the budget is in the red, well, it's all about getting by. And most of the people that work in comics are the bread winners for their families, not just immediate either but paying their grandkids tutions and such. Like I said most won't admit it but that's most likely the real reason behind things right now given the low state of the industry and sales.
I hear ya about DC though in fact I feel the same about Marvel as well. Then again that's going rate whenever sales are down too, that is they try new things and a different take on their standard stuff to try and pull in sales, gimmicks as it were. Mostly in cases it becomes something I don't enjoy though sometimes a dynamic peeks through that's so refreshing I love it, like the current Hulk run for example. Else I'm tried and true Transformers and Ninja Turtles here, nice to see both are having good enough sales to warrant even more spin-offs for that matter. For DC and on topic I guess much of my look forward to stuff was all mini-series and all of em are wrapping, most recently Flash Forward so I don't know where I stand there? Maybe Justice League Dark is my go to but I really haven't given it much thought, too much real life stuff to tend to right now. At least that book is consistent. For now I don't have to worry about coming in and finding an all new issue #1 relaunch that's something entirely different from what I was following. For now. I guess that's the downside of enjoying a serial based media though. Part of the enjoyment is the continuation like any good soap opera but it has to switch up at some point in order for the artform itself to survive and thrive in the business world.
Also feel ya about TPB's. That's standard for me. Currently anything and everything Lady Death but mainly because I'm making a model for this site and need the reference material. Why not really though? If the new stuff doesn't trip your trigger read the stuff that does. Eitherway you're paying dollar and supporting the artists.
Hi,everyone.
Finished Batman Universe. Its pretty...okay. Batman is a total dick.
I don't think I've ever even heard of Batman Universe.
QuoteBatman is a total dick.
Not a particularly uncommon characterization of Batman, really. Depending on your definition of the word "total" in the context of Batman.
SS, unfortunately, that's become the standard; one of many things about modern comics I don't care for.
I blame it on Frank Miller. Batman is sort of a jerk through DKR and its follow ups, but you can understand why considering what he's gone through.....then you get All-Star Batman, which is a DKR prequel, and he's a world class jackass from the beginning.
Gah, it makes perfect sense that All-Star Batman, which seems to be nearly universally derided, would somehow be influential. Ha, I think the field is about that irrational.... :P
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2020, 06:05:17 PM
SS, unfortunately, that's become the standard; one of many things about modern comics I don't care for.
I think mostly that. There was a shift in the climate of the industry, what was this the late 80's I think? It was a brief era called the Grim And Gritty era. This is about when Azbats came in, Superman died, Spider-man would be beaten and bloody every issue, everyone had stupid huge guns and characters that did became the favorites as well Wolverine and characters that were a little more pure became "lame boy scouts" and eventually had to be hardened to go with the flow. Likewise the villains began murdering, raping and becoming more overall Hannibal Lectors. In Batman's case they didn't want to make him appear to have a lack of self-control thus the option was to make him more callous and blunt, something which was just way hammed up more than it needed to be and somehow got critical acclaim thus stuck. Imo I like a dry wit Batman better that can use heart to win a battle by just applying clarity and therapy. A guy who fights passionately for the right reason, to save people and not more because "this is the way the world works". I think the standard is going to change though myself. The real world is just a little too terrible and people are more sick of real violence and heartlessness than to be stimulated by the fantasy version of it. I know I personally can't stomach a shoot-out film the way I used to, heard too many gunshots in real life to want that as my form of relaxation and escapism. I'd rather watch a RomCom if it comes to that.
Agree it started (or became popularized) with Frank Miller, but probably even earlier than All-Star Batman. goes back to Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year 1.
That being said, those 2 were actually good (especially compare to All-Star Batman which is incomprehensible and basically a parody of Miller by Miller :)
Like many things that become popular, everybody apes it but often to lesser quality.
re: Batman - my Batman was Adams-Aparo era where he was buds with Superman and teamed up with everyone on Brave & The Bold (yeesh I'm old)
Tell me about it. I remember when signal boosting meant putting a crumpled ball of tin foil on something.
Yeah, the 90s have much to answer for, ha!
Exactly, SA!
Quote from: abenavides on May 27, 2020, 06:11:15 PM
re: Batman - my Batman was Adams-Aparo era where he was buds with Superman and teamed up with everyone on Brave & The Bold (yeesh I'm old)
Haha, I'm not quite so old, but I sympathize. I love a character with a bit more nuance and a bit more
good in him.
Darwin' Cooke's cover with the two of them having disarmed a bomb really captures what I want to see from them:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/de2dcd1837c7bd6ab4c14df6107e4df6/tumblr_nbr82lMFJM1qa6fdmo1_1280.jpg
There should be some warmth and humanity in these characters. That's part of what makes Batman: TAS so perfect. They have the Dark Avenger version, but he's still a
good man, and he's not afraid to smile and laugh, on occasion.
Denny O'Neil has passed away.
One of the all-time greats. Someone online said he was the best Batman editor of all time and I'm inclined to agree. I remember really enjoying the Batman family of books while he was editor.
Ohh, that's a real loss. I've read a lot of his work as I moved through the DC Bronze Age, and while it sometimes hasn't aged well, it was obvious how creative and influential he was. He was a real pioneer and a fantastic storyteller who tried to edify his audience as well as entertain.
Not familiar. Though if it isn't before their time I'm usually not depressed about such news. I see people like that as people who lived their dreams to the fullest thus "lived" as opposed to "died" if that makes any sense. The tragedy to me is when people who die who never got the chance to live.
Else nothing to say on topic, I'll pretty much concede that lately I am just happy to have new comics at all, so much that I can't find myself even critiquing their merits.
Sorry to hear about this. O'Neill was one of the great comics writers. He co-created Ra's Al Ghul, Talia, the League of Assassins, etc. He did the famous (infamous?) Speedy on drugs storyline with Neal Adams, very ground-breaking for the time. He did Superman vs Muhammed Ali (which I had as a kid). He had a good run on The Question. Quite influential and was even a teacher for a while at NY's School of Visual Arts (which my daughter may attend next year). Thx for everything, Denny.
By Gawd,Bob Harras (along with plenty of others) was fired. Maybe there is still some hope for DC comics.
Its not a good sign at all. The company is being gutted. And sadly there's an expectation that Marvel will do the same in the next few months.
DC might stop losing readers if they would quit doing reboots every time an EIC considers the idea.
It was high time for some cleanup. And we can only hope everyone else follows suit.
Haven't checked here in a while:
QuoteHe did Superman vs Muhammed Ali (which I had as a kid).
Oh yeah, I read that back in the day myself. Really liked it! Ideal version of itself for sure. Surprisingly well thought out for such a silly premise. :thumbup:
As for the newer posts. I've been reading a few articles lately. DC's being undergoing some MASSIVE shakeups lately, including mass layoffs, billions of dollars in debt, and AT&T breaking out the katana to start cutting some bizness.
DC Universe streaming service, in a move that should surprise noone, is getting ruthlessly cannibalized by HBO Max and anything not called Stargirl (moving to CW, also unsurpisingly) that doesn't get cancelled (the Harley Quinn animated show hasn't been picked up for a second season yet, last I heard) will apparently migrate over there. And lastly, AT&T is about to sell Crunchyroll to Sony, a move that almost makes me want to cry in the shower giving how the American anime industry has been utterly eating itself to death after Sony bought Funimation.
To quote Linkara of Atop the Fourth Wall: "We live in Hell. And it's soooo stupid."
------------------------------------------
In other, more pleasant news, I recently read the legendary Teen Titans arc "The Judas Contract" for the very first time. Does it live up to the hype? Ehhhh....not really. It's pretty good, but not quite a legend in my jaded world-weary eyes. I imagine it probably would blown the doors off back in the day. Roughly half of it feels like Marv Wolfman's pitch for a Deathstroke spin-off series (which he got to make, so mission accomplished). The debut of Nightwing kinda gets lost in the proceedings and Dick Grayson kinda just bumbles around until he and Jericho find the plot. To my vindication, the arc also explicitly states in no uncertain terms that Deathstroke can't take Donna Troy in a straight fight, meaning the live action Titans tv show did in fact depower Wonder Girl considerably.
While I'm talking about the New Teen Titans, Brother Blood is SUCH a boring villain. One of Wolfman and/or Perez pointed out he's positively tame by modern standards (and he pretty much is) but at the time was super edgy and lurid but all I'm thinking is "When the hell is this idiot gonna die" and "How is he any threat to the Titans? I haven't seen a villain who's powerset is this poorly defined since Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister"
Personally I agree that they're being gutted in fact they all will. The industry is in a weird place, most industries are for that matter and this type of thing is surfacing across the board. Pandemic, economy, whatever state of affairs you want to name here. I learned to roll with it at some point, seems it's all one can do else read old trades.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 21, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
DC Universe streaming service, in a move that should surprise noone, is getting ruthlessly cannibalized by HBO Max and anything not called Stargirl (moving to CW, also unsurpisingly) that doesn't get cancelled (the Harley Quinn animated show hasn't been picked up for a second season yet, last I heard) will apparently migrate over there.
Harley Quinn season 2 is finished already, season 3 being picked up for HBO Max was the first major warning sign that DCU was doomed. Personally, I feel like it was inevitable (it didn't make any sense to split their content like that) but I still kind of hope DC Universe will get restructured as DC's answer to Marvel Unlimited, since that was a major strength of the service anyway.
That said, I'm just salty that DC Direct got closed, so I haven't paid terribly much attention to DC since.
What I hate, is that if I want to watch HBO Max, I have to do it on my computer. We're supposed to get it free as part of our Xfinity subscription, but my phone is through Safelink (ie, basic smartphone without much storage) and my tablet is a Kindle. You can't download HBO Max on a Kindle yet.
(At least I do get Peacock free, but there's not much on there that I want to watch.)
They couldnt sell a streaming service during a global pandemic. When people had nothing else to do but watch stuff. Tiger King went viral,people.
Yes and no. The issue is, because of that same pandemic, there's only so much money the average (unemployed) person could justify on subscriptions... and DC Universe was, unfortunately, just not suited for it. Between Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Crunchyroll, and other sites, the video content on DCU was kinda pitiful. A few series done relatively cheaply spread out over months (as opposed to Netflix's "release and binge" schedule), a handful of Direct to DVD animated films (which they rotated in and out) and a backlog of 10-40 year old tv shows.
On top of that, all the content was aimed at one type of fanbase, and they split even that fanbase since Watchmen (which got more buzz online than any of the DC shows on DCU) and other DC shows were/are being made exclusive for HBO Max, plus all the contemporary CW shows being exclusive to their awful site. HBO Max in particular is just a better video platform with a better video library. If they move what's on DCU over, I'd switch in a heartbeat.
Really, the only advantage to DCU is... DC Comics. But that's never been marketed properly. Again, I point to Marvel Unlimited... DC absolutely has the backlog to justify a similar model to Marvel's, potentially even more-so because of how long DC has been making comics... but all I ever heard about was the video stuff. I didn't even know DCU had the comic backlog until months into being subscribed. No, instead everything was "Oh, look at these shows we're making" or "If you're subscribed you can BUY exclusive swag."
DCU should be focused on taking over that market, on competing on that footing, rather than trying to be Netflix lite. They've failed to do that so far, and people had better subscriptions to spend their money on.
Solid point about the pandemic as well quarantines add how that effected the other ends of the equation in that and any other biz. It's weird fluctuating dynamic, streaming services alone already were that just by design. They new and old money frankly tends to have a hard time reinventing itself and adapting to news systems. In this case they are akin to the comic industry when it first started out and as many from those days would say "they had no idea what it was yet". I grant some grace on these things given there doesn't seem to be a solid foundation and likewise acknowledging most of the established entities are in fact rooted in old ways and therefore don't conform to new dynamics. I see streaming like riding a wave and hoping not to bank off a crest and capsize. The comic book industry and this was discussed much on this site is entrenched in print and is only showing signs of really committing to endorsing the digital medium, the drive seems to have been brought on by the whole distributor issue coinciding with industry and shops closing during quarantines. Likewise a well spoken of belief that to feed the digital frontier would end the print side thus a hesitation to move on the digital side properly and in full swing. Ironic as print was declared dead a long time ago and as companies hold onto that system in which they felt comfortable end up losing money as time goes forward. In any case I see the comic industry as ill prepared for the digital one and thus a reasoning to their faults in it now. Streaming video services to me are a different beast all together and seem to be a matter of gambling against an unproven medium that hasn't quite defined itself in it's otherwise youth to either a win or loss hence the sudden upheavals and inconsistencies there. Add the lack of structure as far as being user friendly and updated on all devices and platforms, noting what GhostMachine said and how my own available differs from that in both availability and limitations and how both seem to often be in flux and unreliable. It's a weird market and I am glad I don't work in it, I need stability and assurance when it comes to my bread and butter.
Quote from: Tomato on August 21, 2020, 11:02:28 PM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 21, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
DC Universe streaming service, in a move that should surprise noone, is getting ruthlessly cannibalized by HBO Max and anything not called Stargirl (moving to CW, also unsurpisingly) that doesn't get cancelled (the Harley Quinn animated show hasn't been picked up for a second season yet, last I heard) will apparently migrate over there.
Harley Quinn season 2 is finished already, season 3 being picked up for HBO Max was the first major warning sign that DCU was doomed. Personally, I feel like it was inevitable (it didn't make any sense to split their content like that) but I still kind of hope DC Universe will get restructured as DC's answer to Marvel Unlimited, since that was a major strength of the service anyway.
Oh yeah, it was a season 3. For some reason when I posted that I was thinking season 2. I guess I forgot how many seasons actually came out.
So Generations is happening after all. I guess its now a Convergence style event for January/February,after which we will be getting new storylines and creative teams.
I got around to Endless Winter. It was okay,but dragged on for a bit too long. Black Adam and Hippolyta joined the Justice League.
After Future State we are in for another soft reboot,If I got it right. I see Tom King is doing Phantasm...please,dont let King mess with the legacy of the best Batman movie.
1. If that was a spoiler for that enormous 10 dollar one shot I just bought with Booster Gold and Kimiyo Hoshi on the cover, that at the current rate will likely take me about 2 years to read, I WILL throw a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at you.
2. So I have heard. Superboy on the Suicide Squad has mah curiosity. Oh, and least I forget, Joker and THE CSA getting their own book (somewhere out there Tomato's Tomato Signal just went up)? Interesting stuff.
3. I'm of the opinion that Mask of the Phantasm is grotesquely overratted and you seem to have forgotten about Under the Red Hood.
4. You guys DO know that the Phantasm is directly based off The REAPER from Batman Year Two, right? A character that got revived at least once?
5. Red X is best boy.
I probably said it before,but weird that it took DC 20+ years to implement popular characters from the cartoons.
None of the things I mentioned involve Booster Gold,so you are probably safe. And they were heavily hyped.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on January 11, 2021, 04:00:26 AM
3. I'm of the opinion that Mask of the Phantasm is grotesquely overratted and you seem to have forgotten about Under the Red Hood.
SS, who hurt you? :D
Quote from: HarryTrotter on January 11, 2021, 09:10:46 AM
I probably said it before,but weird that it took DC 20+ years to implement popular characters from the cartoons.
Oh ho, don't get me started. Justice League/JLU was my gateway show for well over half the characters on that show, Booster and Kimmie very much included.
The 2000's Teen Titans show was my gateway for every character not named Robin.
QuoteNone of the things I mentioned involve Booster Gold,so you are probably safe. And they were heavily hyped.
Worry, not, I was mostly joking. Hence the Black Widow quote.
Even still this is, as I understand it, one of those one-shots that's an advertisement for damn near everything DC's putting out for the next few years. They're doing that thing they do like every few years where they go "Sorry we screwed up guys. Here, we'll change it -and we'll put out a really good book trying to explain all the contradictory bullcrap that doesn't make any sense. Mind you, we're just going to end up making it MORE confusing, but try not to let that ruin the fun."
In particular, the cover for "Generations Shattered: From the Pages of [sigh] Dark Nights: Death Metal!" shows Booster, Kimmi, Kommandi (but is he at Earth's End?), the Pre-Flashpoint Starfire, Golden Age Batman, complete with purple gloves, Steel, Sinestro as a GL, and what I assume is the Pre-Crisis Superboy. So there's all sorts of crazy things going on in that book. Who knows, maybe Linkara's prediction came through and Booster's Gold's adult film is finally a thing.
Quote
SS, who hurt you?
*cracks knuckles* *does Scooby-Doo/Muttley laugh*
Ho, ho, I've been waiting over 10 years for this rant.
The only reason people think Mask of the Phantasm is a "Batman Year One" movie is because they actually acknowledge Batman's origin story (something the Fox Kids censors on the television show largely forbid - The Batman vs Dracula talks about his origin too, but I've never heard anyone claim that film is based on Year One) and because of ONE SCENE of Bruce Wayne going out fighting criminals before becoming Batman and getting his butt kicked.
Sub-Zero was better. Yeah, it was a quick and dirty cash in, but it also starred Mr. Freeze, had Robin and Batgirl in it, and continued into the main show AND Batman Beyond.
And Mask of the Phantasm is one of the three (three? Or more?) stories that kill off the Joker, only for him to walk right back onto the show like nothing happened without anyone mentioning it in any way. Greatest animated show of all time, folks.
Plus, you know, nostalgia. And yet, even as kids, my brother and I watched it on home video and said it wasn't all that good.
Oh, I was informed of the mini. Looking forward to it, even with Quick's dumber than normal design.
I'm also with ss on this one, btw. Mask is ok, but a lot of it hinges on a relationship to a character we've never heard of before being Bruce's one true love for this one movie and never showing up outside a cameo in epilogue. Don't get me wrong, it's a gorgeous film, and the voice acting is superior... But I get more out of UtRH just because the antagonist isn't a one shot love interest I don't really care about. Even Hush, meh as that one is, properly examines the relationship between Catwoman and Batman and has consequences. Mask just... Is pretty and nostalgic. Even the bits we learn about Joker are retconned in the main series later.
Quote from: Tomato on January 12, 2021, 03:06:39 AM
Oh, I was informed of the mini. Looking forward to it, even with Quick's dumber than normal design.
I'm also with ss on this one, btw. Mask is ok, but a lot of it hinges on a relationship to a character we've never heard of before being Bruce's one true love for this one movie and never showing up outside a cameo in epilogue. Don't get me wrong, it's a gorgeous film, and the voice acting is superior... But I get more out of UtRH just because the antagonist isn't a one shot love interest I don't really care about. Even Hush, meh as that one is, properly examines the relationship between Catwoman and Batman and has consequences. Mask just... Is pretty and nostalgic. Even the bits we learn about Joker are retconned in the main series later.
WELL SAID ROBIN! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlkJlrYgdNw) (Incidentally, someone's going to have to explain to me how a series of
Zeller's toy commercials from the 80's have better animation than pretty much any show or movie DC's ever put out.)
I always forget about "Batman & Catwoman (or as it's officially called, "Batman: Hush") That does indeed do a good job of bringing CW in, and Damien's cameo (in which he gives Bruce a hard time about dating Catwoman in an absolutely savage manner) makes the whole damn movie (and is a solid double callback)
QuoteWho knows, maybe Linkara's prediction came through and Booster's Gold's adult film is finally a thing.
Not the best choice of word. Or the right one,knowing Linkara. :D
Anyway,I finished the Wild Storm. Another comic book ashamed of being a comic book. No costumes,no code names (for the most parts),Demonites(just Demons now) are basically good Skrulls,Helspont is now just some mad doctor...So why even bother making this a Wildstorm reboot? You could have changed the names and just do this high concept spy comic you wanted to do.
Hmm, not sounding too good.
QuoteAnother comic book ashamed of being a comic book.
Well, not every comic book is a superhero comic, or even in the sci-fi/fantasy genre. But even still, making Wilstorm less than Wildstorm doesn't sound too interesting.
QuoteWell, not every comic book is a superhero comic, or even in the sci-fi/fantasy genre.
Im fine with that. I just don't like this superspy sf mashup being sold as a Wildstorm reboot. Its like if a Batman reboot starred some guy called Bruce Wayne who is the top CIA assasin. [Insert your own Killer Elite style disclaimer.]
They did do that with Nightwing. It was called "Grayson". Hey wait a minute...
*double checks writing team online*
Tom King
(https://memegenerator.net/img/images/300x300/14586937.jpg)
Why is Tom King hyped so much? Because average redditors are mindblown with Omega Men being Middle East in space,I guess. What a load of cr@p that series was.
Anyway,back to the topic. There was supposed to be a Wildcats spinoff,but it got delayed...and I guess its not happening now when DC canceled everything that doesn't have Batman in it.
Don't forget Vision and Mister Miracle. Though at least Deadpool called out Mister Miracle in Spider-Man/Deadpool.
Also I personally blame the comic press for the hype myself.
I haven't read those,but I did read Omega Man. Characters speak in nothing but exposition and soap box lectures. In case the reader is too stupid the figure out the "subtle" analogies,somebody makes a speech about their dudes being basically Israel in space.
Also,somehow the American army is mining planets halfway across the galaxy and its all their fault. This doesn't make any sense,Rick!
I'm pretty sure this is at least the third time we've talked about this. And I'm reasonably sure I mentioned I read the first issue of Vision and didn't think it was all that special.
Because all the cr@p DC does somehow leads back to Tom King. On my list of worst comics Omega Men lands between Shadow Cabinet and Hyperion vs Nighthawk.
Well,now I got Batmans Grave to get thru.
Well before that the joke was that every bad thing in DC from the 2000's forward leads back to Countdown to Final Crisis. Though one person I know pointed out that even before that, and even before Identity Crisis, a lot of DC's forward trajectory started with Titans: Graduation Day.
Aaaaand done with Batman's Grave. The name doesn't really connect to the plot. There isn't much of the plot there. The villain,Scorn,is building an army. And most of the comic is Batman beating on his goons before the big fight with Scorn. This should have been 3-4 issues tops,but its Warren Ellis and Bryan Hitch so its a 12 issue series.
Alfred is pretty funny,even if a bit out of character.
All I want to know is:
1) Does Warren Ellis pad out the already padded out story with a new, important character walking into town and haggling over the price of an apple in what is clearly supposed to be a character establishing moment? (This would be a Castlevania S3 reference)
2) Does Warren Ellis write a pre-established character giving Ellis' the character's thoughts on rugby and/or European Football for no specific reason?
3) Is there a reference to the Gorilliaz song "Clint Eastwood"? ("Finally, someone let me out of my Grave...." - for added meta, this song was featured in the Freedom Force Suicide Squad mod, which actually was my gateway to the Suicide Squad themselves. Imagine my surprise and delight when Deadshot showed up early in Justice League with a voice surprisingly similar to the one he had in the mod, not mention Waller becoming a MAJOR character in JLU) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V_xRb0x9aw)
Now in fairness, the word is actually "cage" BUT the music video heavily uses zombies rising out of the grave, which means I get away with that "boner" Scott Free.
It opens and ends on Bruce's grave spot in the garden next to his parents...and thats all about the grave part. The title doesn't come into play...ever.
2) Just football. And I don't think so.
4) Does Warren Ellis nuke Moscow? Strangely,no. Come to think of it,he didn't do it in Wild Storm either IIRC.
Back to Tom King (though this would count as Marvel as well). I started reading Tom King's Vision again, starting once again with the first issue, in anticipation for Wandavision, and....nope, it's still not good. In fact, it's worse than I remember.
It's dull. Painfully dull. Flat, repetitive dialogue (even them being synthetic lifeforms with reduced emotion and humanity is no excuse for this lack of energy), Vision and his wife taking two pages to argue semantics over the phrase "they seemed nice." While Vision out of nowhere says "Perusing a set goal using logic is the pathway of tyranny. Like my creator, Ultron." And I'm like WHAT THE FRONT FLIPPING HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!!!
This thing's 12 issues. I don't know if I'm going to be able to make it past 3. I think I'd rather read just about anything else.
And it's a shame, because I'm like 70-90% sure Viv is in Wandavision. But you know what? I've read the vast majority of comics featuring her. I think I'm good.
Since we mentioned Starman in a different thread,Knight family is not a thing in this continuity,I guess?
Maybe, but it not take too long before that's the case. As I've mentioned before, as I understand it, as a result of Flashpoint/Dr. Manhatten doing the whatever, DC's entire continuity is basically Hawkman circa Zero-Hour and they've just kinda shushed things together. So you have, during Johns run of JLA, Kimiyo Hoshi as the wife of Doctor Light (gross) before she shows up in full costume for a cameo in Heroes in Crisis. Diving into the Wiki reveals she apparently became Doctor Light during Year of the Villain - neat, didn't know that - Tynion wrote that - and I still have the $1 dollar book, which I haven't actually read yet as I was planning to after I read through some of Snyder's JL. Will have to check out later.
As I understand it the Legion got some fudging - no difference there - and as I understand it they kinda split the difference with Tim Drake, Superboy and...Supergirl? I might just be taking stabs at the dark here. It's DC. Just roll with it.
Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 09, 2021, 05:12:19 AM
Kimiyo Hoshi as the wife of Doctor Light (gross)
Ewww. Ewwww. EWWWWWW. I hate villainous Dr. Light as a character. The only time I have liked him was in the 'Titans' show. They even made the helmet look kind of cool, by changing it from a straight on fin to a roman gladiator inspired look.
Quote
As I understand it the Legion got some fudging.
If you've seen Legion from Future State, it looks like it was drawn with fudge. Human Fudge, if you gets my meaning. And Brainiac 7, or whatever 'upgrade' they gave him is now an amorphous glob that sometimes forms a human head to speak. So maybe it was written with human fudge too.
QuoteEwww. Ewwww. EWWWWWW. I hate villainous Dr. Light as a character.
Yup. It's even worse if you read that one arc of Green Arrow and/or the Blackest Night tie-in of Robinson's JLA run. She didn't even appear on screen much during the New 52 comics either either According to DC wiki her first on-screen appearance was during Forever Evil: Argus. I could have sworn she was shown on screen during Johns' JLA but maybe I was remembering wrong.
Anyway, as I alluded to in the "Bring em Back and Boot Em - DC" thread, New 52 Arthur was actually originally portrayed as a good guy, then died during Trinity War, then came back as a villain during FE: Argus, and then came back again again during Deathstroke in the classic costume and got retconned to being a villain the whole time. So it went from eww to double eww (heh, wordplay there)
QuoteThey even made the helmet look kind of cool, by changing it from a straight on fin to a roman gladiator inspired look.
Personally I wasn't crazy about that costume myself, but hey, if it got you to enjoy the character there and only there, that's worth something.
QuoteIf you've seen Legion from Future State, it looks like it was drawn with fudge. Human Fudge, if you gets my meaning. And Brainiac 7, or whatever 'upgrade' they gave him is now an amorphous glob that sometimes forms a human head to speak. So maybe it was written with human fudge too.
I haven't seen it, but that's quite the colorful description.
So Detective Comics by Tomasi...first arc is a Matrix simulation that gets us up to speed on Batmans origin. Okay,whatever. Arkham Knight story is a bit over the top. Her origin story is basically being delivered and raised by the Arkham inmates. Joker delivered her. Also, wouldn't Batman know that doctor Arkham had a wife who got killed by a batarang? Seems like a thing he should remember. Also,this means Batman has been doing this for some 20 years, which seems about right.
Hey,Reaper,nice. Which seems to be a prologue to a bigger story. Deathshot. For a Batman villain,he didn't fight Batman in a long while. And how the hell didn't everyone figure out qho Batman is in that one? They are on a freaking deserted island and Bruce Wayne is missing. But really hes running around with an aviator hat,covered in mud. There is a team-up with Spectre. And Joker taking over an amusement park.
Its all very workman-like. Not the worst Batman stories around,but hardly memorable.
That sounds like....a lot of stuff going on. Also Joker taking over an amusement park. Comics sure repeat themselves, don't they? Though I remember reading (I think it was you who said this, actually) that Paul Dini in the comics did world-building that explains why Gotham has so many amusement parks.
QuoteAlso, wouldn't Batman know that doctor Arkham had a wife who got killed by a batarang? Seems like a thing he should remember.
You ever read Tomasi's Batman & Robin OR Rebirth Detective Comics? Both runs have a group of Batman villains that are basically "The Batman Revenge Squad" - villains who want revenge on Batman because they blame him for ruining their lives, and it includes people who was horribly mangled in fights with Batman (and also Lady Clayface), such as one with some leftover shrapnel left in them and one with a batterang still lodged in their head that caused brain damage, resulting in some of their dialogue being disjointed non-sequiturs.
QuoteDeathshot. For a Batman villain,he didn't fight Batman in a long while.
Deadshot? Or is there also a Batman villain called Deathshot? Because Deathshot totally sounds like a 90's Image comic character right alongside Deathblow.
Deadshot. Typo on my part.
Yeah,Streets of Gotham and Dini's Detective run. Everyone should read it. Apparently,Gotham used to be the Atlantic City of [ wherever the hell it is,somewhere around New York].
Yeah,Arkham Knight arc is kinda similar to Victim Syndicate,but with established villains. Since she thinks they are all just victims and good guys and Batman is a bully.
QuoteYeah,Streets of Gotham and Dini's Detective run. Everyone should read it.
I should put it on the list.
QuoteSince she thinks they are all just victims and good guys and Batman is a bully.
Villains often think they are the heroes of their own stories.
"Y'all think you're the heroes of this little adventure, but you're not."
~Handsome Jack, the villain of Borderlands 2, and a total heel.
Well,she was raised by Arkham inmates and blames Batman for the death of her mother. Again,Jeremiah Arkham having a wife and her dying in a prison riot seems like a thing Batman should already know. Like,he was there.
Was that tying into an earlier story by a different writer or was it a retcon in that book? Because if it was the latter, then that's bizarrely sloppy on the part of that writer.
It came out of nowhere,afaik.
Speaking of recent Batman comics.....
I did a thing.
I'm been chipping away at some Batman/Joker/Scott Snyder material (fun fact, my plumber is named Scott Snyder :P And the irony of that just creeped me out big time) (https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/BM_13_24_450.jpg)
And I started reading Joker 80th Anniversary from about a year or so ago. And I read the Punchline story.
YIKES. Quote from: NightDragon(And yes, I know Harley isn't with Joker, but I'm not using that crappy half-baked Punchline.)
I think you undersold it.
I don't know if Punchline is the worst villain I've ever seen in fiction, if not, she's close. She's just the worst. She's not fun or hammy, tragic, sympathetic or relatable, fascinating or creepy, or a challenge to the good guys in an interesting way, she's just gross and unpleasant. A witch's brew of almost every bad stereotype about young people in the internet age. She doesn't seem to be intolerant, but that's about it. I could quote almost any line of dialogue from her initial 10-page story to demonstrate this, but this part in particular stands out:
*poisons the Dean with Joker toxin* "I got the recipe off the internet. I don't know if it's going to work right. You wouldn't believe how many chemicals it takes. I had a good teacher though. Don't fight it Dean Bob, I want it all on camera [takes picture or video recording with smartphone] [...] I've been testing with some of the homeless people under the overpass. You're the first that matters, though."
Well, as a lead in to a Batman crossover, (Joker War), it's a pretty rotten one. I sure hope she's better in that storyline than she is in this story. If she isn't it might be a rough time if I do read it.
Another extra large 9.99 book I picked up very recently is Generations Forged, the direct followup to Shattered Generations. I haven't read it yet, it'll be a long while, but I looked through it for fun, and it's a such a fun, colorful book celebrating the rich history of the DC universe. Two things in particular stood out:
Spoiler
1. Doctor Light (Kimiyo Hoshi) got a power up by absorbing a large amount of light-based or solar energy, and got a new costume that was a tweaked version of her old costume, but with the multi-pointed star swapped out for a more rounded white-hot sun. I like it quite a bit.
2. From the DC Wiki:
"The comic introduces the concept of "Linearverse" where non-powered heroes like Batman age far slowly than normal and went through all stories that happened in past comics, at least in some form."
Oh DC, never change. Fluctuate less in quality, please, for the love of Rao, but never change. Keep being gloriously insane in that very DC-Comics way. ^_^
Batman: The Detective #1
I've been told this book was renamed from "Batman: The Dark Knight" to avoid confusion with the universe of The Dark Knight Returns. So instead we get the underwhelming sounding "The Detective" I think "Dark Detective" would have worked better.
It's especially unfortunate because while there is some Detective work, this book is rather similar to the Dark Knight Returns. I picked it up because of the hype and because I'm a fan of Tom Taylor as a writer, and I enjoyed it enough. Kubert's art is pretty good, but he's storytelling is a bit hard to follow in spots.
Spoiler
It's an alternate future where Batman's older and rustier, we have the second Knight (formerly Squire) and a new Squire, a gang of criminals wearing knockoff Batman outfits, Alfred's apparently passed away, and someone's apparently targeting people who have been rescued by Batman in the past, which Batman describes as trying "undue all the good Batman has done".
One thing I liked, Batman saying that his two fathers, Thomas Wayne and Alfred, were a doctor and a army field medic, respectfully, so he really dislikes it when criminals target hospitals. That's a nice touch. I like that, I'm surprised noone has added that before. Unless they have and I either didn't know or didn't remember.
One thing I wasn't super in love with is Gentleman Ghost. He's in this, but they've opted to redesign him to be more monstrous, in a similar manner to Croc, Bane, Clayface and Venom. Instead of just a dabber gent who is invisible except for his clothes, he looks like a White Martian-esque hulking monster with enormous fangs. That seemed a bit unnecessarily. He is called "Gentleman" Ghost after all. The action scene with him was a bit hard to follow as well.
In other news, a recent issue of the Rorshach miniseries featured Rorshach visiting Frank Miller - yes, really, Frank Miller) and saying he's a huge fan. Um, ok. That was random.
Apparently,its a meta take on the comic industry as viewed thru the lens of pirate dominated comics of the Watchmen world? But its also Tom King.
I'm not sure if that helps.
IDK,because its meta and Tom King thinks he's clever again? Apparently,there are also stand ins for Steve Ditko and Otto Binder. The more I look into it,the more bizarre it gets. (It's like Mark Hamills car accident of comics. Just admit thats why you wrote the wampa scene,George!)
"Hello, Mr. Millar. It is such an honor to meet you. I read Dark Fife over and over again, and I just think it's a masterpiece. It totally changed everything.
I know you probably don't want to be called a legend, 'cause I think that implies you're done, but I'm sorry, sir, you are a legend."
It kinda sounds to me like Tom King doesn't like the criticism Frank Millar gets in the modern era. That's my read, anyway.
Certainly sounds like King is a fan.
And now for something completely different:
Suicide Squad by John Ostrander finds a really clever way to reference/affectionately make fun of Marvel in a way that is a good moment in the story, because this is of course John Ostrander's Suicide Squad.
Waller: Ramban, you got anything up your sleeve?
Ramban: Magic doesn't work that way, Mrs. Waller! Each spell has to be prepared --!
Waller: Can you FAKE it?
Ramban [waving wand with energy crackling off it]: Drop your weapon, woman, or be prepared for the torments of Hell! By the Hoary Hosts of Hoggoth--!
[distracts enemy long enough for them to dispatch them]
"'The Hoary Hosts of --' WHAT?"
Ramban: I read it in a comic when I was small.
Batman: Reptilian #1 and #2 This feels like something from 1996,and I don't mean that as a compliment. Thou 1996 Garth Ennis would do a better job,I would bet. And his take on Batman is...weird. From the overly theatrical way of talking (You wretched cur!) to stabbing a guy in broad daylight in front of a courthouse. So something is hurting the Bat-villains,but not killing them,because we couldn't just make this an Elseworld story.
-Riddler has been gutted!
-Is he dead?
-No, he's in the hospital.
So like, what are the stakes here? And the artwork...not Sharp's best. Barely his style, actually. It's this painted,muddy Bisley-like mess.
Sounds kinda like Neil Adams' Batman Odyssey. That had a Batman that talked and behaved strangely as well.
I've seen advertisements for Batman: Reptilian and it certainly seemed like an odd project. I guess their mentality is just that Batman books will always sell to a certain degree so they'll just change up the creative teams and let them do their thing, and hope that faithful readers will read them specifically for those creators.
Hey neighbors, hope all is well for everyone. Random here but I had to drop this. A friend was pointing out how unusual it was that the first two guys were so excited about the prospect of seeing a bird or plane (which instead turned out to be Superman of course). That led to a bit of a trivia argument which is "What are the names of the two guys who said 'It's a bird!' 'It's a plane!'" Something for anyone to chew over if they want.
Seriously,DC...what the hell?
https://mobile.twitter.com/SierraWhiskey9/status/1477369592372613120 (https://mobile.twitter.com/SierraWhiskey9/status/1477369592372613120)
Harry - that's why I keep to the old stuff. I bought all the Marvel comic DVD collections as they came out with the movies, the Mad Magazine, Archie and Star Trek ones, and even way back in the day before I knew better, the bootleg ebay collections of everything I could find.
I'll stick with the Silver and Bronze Age books I grew up with - almost 30 years worth of reading should keep me happy.
This is not my kind of story, and nothing I would ever want to get into. Even though I lean left in a lot of things, this is not for me.
QuoteEven though I lean left in a lot of things, this is not for me.
It's not a political issues. It's just the dumbest freaking thing DC ever did. And that's really saying something.
They're trying to give Superman edginess, pretty obvious by a few recent books. To that maybe my personal things but when it comes to certain subjects, defile and suicide these are things superhero comics should tread carefully if not at all. There's reasons that stuff was kept out of the cape books for spans, more than just younger readers. More often when they attempt this it falls very flat and ends up an insult to both the readers and to the crimes and real life victims themselves. "On occasion" it's been done appropriately but this is extremely rare in my opinion and otherwise seems a subject most talent is not tempered for. Likewise a thing like that is something that approached both as the focal point of a story itself and done only for good reason. A plot highlight is not a good reason. Mind you I take that stuff very seriously in rl so it resonates when fiction tries to use it with me.
I don't really see any reason for a story where Superman gets r*ped in prison. Other then DC continuing with their slow suicide.
Harry and SA - totally agree with what the both of you are saying, though SA said it better than I did
Comics and Action/Adventure movies or shows, based on comics or not, to me are escapism. It lets you get away a little from the real world stress, and go where the good guy wins in the end. I want to see the hero being heroic.
Its a stupid idea, but....how is it even possible? Is he powerless during the story?
Oh yeah, involving Superman of all characters too for that matter Harry of course. And it tarnishes the image with the fandom, defile always does with comic characters though right there I think too because it is just not a subject to taken lightly and the reader knows this. And there it is as a plot device? But edgy, I mean they're just hammering that into the Superman books more and more lately. Is it a sales grab? Do they think maybe in these times the audience is becoming numb to certain things? Trying to grab the attention of movie industry for pick-up by making profound statements? I don't know but it's seriously bad form and a huge eyesore. I am glad only you brought it to attention, not really a subject covered by comic book news sites (if it isn't No Way Home related then again it doesn't exist lately lol) so I can make sure to not read that. To be vulnerable I've had my share of trauma and prefer to avoid material that triggers me as it were.
As for the state of DC right now. It's a hard take to give because it's in this transitionary almost alternate timeline type thing. There's good work being done. Like I'd say Order Of The World for example is great Vertigo style stuff if it weren't for the art getting a little too choppy at times. But well personally I just don't do "neo" comic books well. I overstate that I like the characters for what they are and that's what I show up for so when they become these alt-versions of what they traditionally are it doesn't sit well with me. So it's a personal thing. Noted the are saturated with Batbooks right now as Marvel is with X-books and it's usually a sing of issues with the market when they do that. It seems mostly like they're trying to throw whatever at the wall and see what sticks here before a likely in due time overhaul that brings the characters back to their roots as usual.
Well,comic book news sites haven't actually reported about comicbooks in years.
As for how well DC is doing... probably not that great considering the last 2 years. I mean,the whole industry is not doing well.
Sadly it goes without saying about the industry. Well, yeah everything. I'm weathering it myself still.
I used to have this sports-fan-like loyalty to DC (they were "my team" and all that),but now,like, what's the point? I recognize nothing of the universe I liked in the current one.
I was fortunate though it made relating to fandom difficult. Art has been art to me. Variety is the spice of life and so on. Music just music and I look at composition itself. Comic books just a medium. So on. I think having a background in art in media contributes to it. I do get brand loyalty and the why's behind it of course. I am more effected by nostalgia I think though. I want to read these books to read about the characters I came to care about. So when they try and reinvent them in whatever manner it's difficult for me to absorb. Maybe the mission that I assume to reach a new generation of audience is working for them, noting again I know for fact some of it has to do with trying to grab the attention of Hollywood though, I dunno. I just know it isn't the taste I pay for and love. Mind you again any company does put out stimulating books regardless though there's much to said for the mainstays.
I haven't read anything since around the Final Crisis story arc. That being said, I think DC, and to an extent all comics, are playing to a specific audience. Like SA said - Hollywood. As successful as the MCU has been, DC just couldn't get it right. They've had a couple of good ones, but in general they have failed. I believe they also play to what they see as an expandable reader base. "Hey, look over here. We're tackling hard issues". They did it in the 70s and 80s with GL/GA. This turns a lot of fans off but expands the readership at the same time. I've never been upset with them tackling hard issues (Roy Harper's drug addiction comes to mind), but I wish they would use some discretion as to which heroes and villains they choose to affect. I mean really, Superman? That's a lot of the reason I quit reading "newer" comics. The editors, writers and artists try to make themselves the arbiters of what is "relevant" without regard to characters or established history. Roy Harper made sense. This does not.
I normally don't comment in this thread, but I do check in. The Superman story just floored me. I can't believe ANY editor would have thought this was a good idea. There are a lot of heroes they could have used. Superman should not have been the one.
<sneaks out of thread since he doesn't really belong here>
Hey,people actually posting on the forum is a red letter day.
I do hate to repeat myself,but comic industry of today isn't really tackling issues. They just put the opinions they don't like in the mouth of the villains. Everything they put out is basically "Archie Bunker effect,the comic".