Freedom Reborn

Community Forums => Film, Television, Video and Music Discussion => Topic started by: BWPS on November 07, 2013, 07:58:11 PM

Title: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BWPS on November 07, 2013, 07:58:11 PM
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jacelacob/marvel-teams-with-netflix-for-four-original-series-and-mini?s=mobile

I know how much you guys hate the idea of Marvel shows with actual superheroes,  but this has me  excited!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on November 07, 2013, 08:21:19 PM
Um, why do we hate the idea of Tv Shows with actual superheroes? It's like Halloween without the costumes. I LOVE the idea of street lvl superheroes that beat thugs in the night. I just want their costumes to be done correctly and we won't see that motorcycle attire that Daredevil had in the movie. The whole idea sounds great since Netflix will proadcast the series so the context will be more mature. Fingers crossed for a Punisher Tv Series. That would blow my mind!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Starman on November 07, 2013, 10:20:38 PM
Between this announcement and the CW working on DC's The Flash, Hourman, Gotham and iZombie, plus the big slate of Marvel and DC films coming up ... damn, that seems like a lot of superheroes :/

I'm a fan of all the characters mentioned, so I'm excited to a degree but I really hope Marvel don't overdo it. Is be happy with one quality Marvel TV show rather than 5 mediocre ones. Time will tell, I'll guess.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 08, 2013, 12:37:22 AM
Quote from: BWPS on November 07, 2013, 07:58:11 PM
I know how much you guys hate the idea of Marvel shows with actual superheroes,  but this has me  excited!

Of course we don't.  I for one, am looking forward to this.  The one question this doesn't answer is if these will be part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe or not.  That's what I'd like to know.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on November 08, 2013, 12:42:44 AM
This is very exciting! Kinda surprised Marvel would shift Daredevil to TV rather than film though.

I guess I have to get Netflix now?...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: thalaw2 on November 08, 2013, 03:33:40 AM
If Netflix can do the shows with the same quality as Orange is the New Black...then I'm all in. 

I hate superhero shows so much that I'll watch these in protest.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: detourne_me on November 08, 2013, 01:07:17 PM
I think Daredevil would work better as a tv show actually.  You can have a procedural court drama, and the superhero element.
Keeping all of these shows in Harlem is really going to help with the budget too.  No expensive locations.

Now, since they are going to be on Netflix, I hope they'll be able to up the maturity a little. Agents of shield still isn't hooking me, and every time coulson speaks, I think he's talking about Disneyland. "It's a magical place."
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on November 08, 2013, 08:27:51 PM
Color me mildly interested.  I'd watch a Daredevil show, if it were done well.  The Heroes for Hire one might also pique my interest.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BlueBard on November 12, 2013, 02:08:19 PM
All of those sound like workable TV-type series.

But dark, gritty, and ultra-violent don't play in my house, so it's not very likely I'll get to watch any of them.  And to be honest, none of them are favorite characters of mine.

My kids would be expecting the Danny Rand and Luke Cage they see in the USM cartoon -- and I'm not expecting that at all.

Interesting, though, how Marvel has positioned Iron Fist and Power Man.  Marketed to the kids as teen superheroes in USM, now a Netflix series.  And I heard the voice of the actor who does Iron Fist in USM in a LEGO Marvel Super Heroes one-off -- as LEGO Iron Fist.  I don't think this is entirely accidental.  Makes me wonder about the long-term plans of the evil marketing genius behind this.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on February 26, 2014, 06:34:21 PM
Word just came down today that all of these series are actually getting filmed in New York.  That'll look great, plus filming in NY ain't cheap, which suggests some real money & hopefully talent behind these.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: lugaru on February 26, 2014, 10:26:43 PM
Quote from: Podmark on November 08, 2013, 12:42:44 AM
This is very exciting! Kinda surprised Marvel would shift Daredevil to TV rather than film though.

I guess I have to get Netflix now?...

Honestly I find that Daredevil is one of the most 'episodic' heroes... the daredevil Movie had a lot of problems but my main one was that they crammed all of his major plotlines into a single flick.

I would love to see him (or She Hulk for example) having court cases, ongoing cat and mouse with the Kingpin and relationships that fade in and out. He is made for a Boston Legal meets Batman style show.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: thalaw2 on February 27, 2014, 02:08:38 PM
[quote author=BlueBard link=topic=56740.msg767520#msg767520 date=1384265299

Interesting, though, how Marvel has positioned Iron Fist and Power Man.  Marketed to the kids as teen superheroes in USM, now a Netflix series.  And I heard the voice of the actor who does Iron Fist in USM in a LEGO Marvel Super Heroes one-off -- as LEGO Iron Fist.  I don't think this is entirely accidental.  Makes me wonder about the long-term plans of the evil marketing genius behind this.
[/quote]

I see where you're going, BB and I agree 100%.  It does not at all seem accidental.  It's possible for Marvel to have something for the kids and something for the older crowd without trying to do a crossover, especially since what I've seen in Netflix series is not for children.  I doubt it's an attempt to get more adults to watch the kiddie versions.  I was looking forward to these shows and this really taints the whole thing for me.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on April 30, 2014, 05:30:06 AM
http://screencrush.com/netflix-daredevil-marvel-defenders-joe-quesada-noir/

Update!

Apparently scripts are coming in(for Daredevil) and there will be a connection to the Cinematic Universe.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on April 30, 2014, 09:23:10 PM
Yep, this confirms these will take place in the Cinematic Universe.  Also, up to a total of 60 episodes now across all 5 series, so not bad.  Definitely looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: XStream on May 03, 2014, 11:07:48 PM
For those who haven't seen it yet, Quasada promises all of the Marvel Cinematic Universe on Netflix by 2015!

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/02/marvels-quesada-promises-netflix-marvel-binge-watching (http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/05/02/marvels-quesada-promises-netflix-marvel-binge-watching)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 04, 2014, 11:56:11 PM
If only they hadn't killed Avengers: EMH, they could be dominating superhero TV entertainment in every single way.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: MJB on May 07, 2014, 08:23:49 AM
Exciting news, XStream. One day I plan on owning the Marvel Cinematic Universe on BluRay but until then watching them on Netflix will be the next best thing.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: XStream on May 08, 2014, 12:35:29 AM
My thoughts exactly MJB. I watched Thor at least ten times on Netflix before they took it off. My understanding is this includes not only the movies and Netflix exclusive but they are planning on S.H.I.E.L.D. being on Netflix as well.

I am really looking forward to catching the show. I saw the pilot, but my schedule has not allowed me to watch any other episodes.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on May 28, 2014, 01:06:43 AM
http://time.com/121287/daredevil-charlie-cox/

Daredevil has been cast.  You might know him from STARDUST with Claire Danes.  I know him has the Irish hitman from BOARDWALK EMPIRE.  I'm confident he can pull it off.  It's the writing(and costuming) I'm more concerned about really.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 10, 2014, 10:08:55 PM
My friend in Hollywood just told me that Vincent D'Onofrio is going to play Kingpin...  Or at least that's what Deadline is saying too.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/06/daredevil-vincent-donofrio-cast-as-wilson-fisk-marvel-netflix/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 10, 2014, 11:02:38 PM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on June 10, 2014, 10:08:55 PM
My friend in Hollywood just told me that Vincent D'Onofrio is going to play Kingpin...  Or at least that's what Deadline is saying too.

http://www.deadline.com/2014/06/daredevil-vincent-donofrio-cast-as-wilson-fisk-marvel-netflix/

It's been officially confirmed by Marvel TV's executives that Vincent WILL be Kingpin and they are thrilled with having an actor of his callibur in this role.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 10, 2014, 11:28:44 PM
I'm not personally familiar with this actor, but judging by the overwhelmingly enthusiastic response this announcement is getting, it appears to be a good choice.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 12:07:33 AM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 10, 2014, 11:28:44 PM
I'm not personally familiar with this actor, but judging by the overwhelmingly enthusiastic response this announcement is getting, it appears to be a good choice.

Most folks are familar with Vincent playing Pvt. Leonard 'Gomer Pyle' Lawrence in FULL METAL JACKET ("Private Pyle I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-f**cking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-f**K you! ONE! TWO! THREE!") and Edgar The Alien Bug in MEN IN BLACK ("You idiots! You don't get it - I've won! It's over! You're milksuckers! You don't matter! In fact, in just a few seconds you won't even BE matter!).

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 11, 2014, 01:01:31 AM
Quote from: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 12:07:33 AM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 10, 2014, 11:28:44 PM
I'm not personally familiar with this actor, but judging by the overwhelmingly enthusiastic response this announcement is getting, it appears to be a good choice.

Most folks are familar with Vincent playing Pvt. Leonard 'Gomer Pyle' Lawrence in FULL METAL JACKET ("Private Pyle I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-f**cking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-f**K you! ONE! TWO! THREE!") and Edgar The Alien Bug in MEN IN BLACK ("You idiots! You don't get it - I've won! It's over! You're milksuckers! You don't matter! In fact, in just a few seconds you won't even BE matter!).

- CQ

"Lawrence?! Lawrence what?  Of Arabia?!  I don't like that name Lawrence... From now on you're Kingpin.  You think I'm cute?  You think I'm funny?!"
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 11, 2014, 01:06:34 AM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 10, 2014, 11:28:44 PM
I'm not personally familiar with this actor, but judging by the overwhelmingly enthusiastic response this announcement is getting, it appears to be a good choice.

Outside of Private Pyle, his MOST notable role is of Detective Robert Goren in LAW AND ORDER: CRIMINAL INTENT.  Also the villain in the first Men In Black.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on June 11, 2014, 02:58:22 AM
Not familiar with the actor but I'm happy to hear that Kingpin will be playing a major role. After just watching the 90s Spider-Man show I'm up for some more Kingpin.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 06:08:49 AM
Im kinda dissapointed there is no Punisher.Netflix shows can be good so I will probably give Daredevil a chance.
IMO they are really trying too hard to fit it all in one continuity.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 11, 2014, 07:23:45 AM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 06:08:49 AM
Im kinda dissapointed there is no Punisher.Netflix shows can be good so I will probably give Daredevil a chance.
IMO they are really trying too hard to fit it all in one continuity.

As much as we are aware of your delight of the Punisher as a character, this time I do concur.  Very much so.  When DONE RIGHT, the Punisher works PERFECTLY serialized.  Each of the movies had a finite ending where the Punisher goes after and kills a main badguy.  Though the first one(in my opinion) had it best with the randomness of the story, a Punisher with no emotion or intent, just punishment, the reason why they had the bad guy and the finite plot was because they had to tell a short story.  The Punisher, however, is the ultimate Hobbesian plight where he will just keep killing and won't stop because the world won't stop being evil.  He can take down one bad guy and there's ALWAYS another to kill.  Which is why it makes it a perfect fit for a serialized show.

That being said, each of these Netflix shows are telling their own short story.  So it's not exactly the idea I have in mind.

I'd put the Punisher on HBO or Showtime.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 07:45:53 AM
I imagined it more in style of Breaking Bad.To show how Frank Castle goes from Policeman/Agent  to hardcase criminal killer.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 11, 2014, 09:00:57 AM
Except that goes against the nature of the Punisher's origin... sure, he might get more brutal as time goes on, but the reason Punisher starts killing people is very specific: he kills criminals because of the death of his family. There is no shift like you're describing, ever... they die, he starts killing criminals.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 09:33:24 AM
^Thats my point,there should be some development there.
Not the best comparison but something like 2004 movie just more elaborated.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: detourne_me on June 11, 2014, 11:11:11 AM
in a way it's his 'second' marvel role.... he was 'Thor' in Adventures in Babysitting!
I'm pretty pumped.  he's a great actor and is physically intimidating.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 01:04:51 PM
Marvel TV studios has stated that Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and Jessica are set up to be miniseries in themselves which lead into them uniting to fight a common enemy in The Defenders, which becomes it's own miniseries and then connects into the Marvel Cinemaverse (possibly with Luke Cage joining the Avengers in Phase Four).

Now, I could see them do this once again with more Marvel's darker/supernatural superheroes that Marvel just reclaimed.... Blade & Ghost Rider.. then unite them with Moon Knight, The Punisher, and Bloodstone under the context of calling them The Nightstalkers. They could easily do this by setting seeds in Doctor Strange and allow some elbow room for more darker characters that might push Marvel Studios limit of PG-13 (Netflix miniseries allow much more room for R rated characters then putting them next to Agents Of SHIELD or Agent Carter).

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 01:12:26 PM
^Thats 5 shows.
They have really gone overboard with expanding the universe.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BWPS on June 11, 2014, 01:30:03 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 01:12:26 PM
^Thats 5 shows.
They have really gone overboard with expanding the universe.

But they have handled it well so far. I'm glad they're doing this, I have no reason to think it won't be a success.  Marvel and Netflix seems like a match made in heaven.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 01:31:31 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 01:12:26 PM
^Thats 5 shows.
They have really gone overboard with expanding the universe.

Spade, I don't think you are getting the point.. MARVEL comics is a giant universe with hundreds of characters. If done correctly they can keep building their superhero universe without letting it feel crowded by not lumping everyone into the same place like New York City. The Defenders will be regulated to handling street crime and gangs which high profile superheroes usually don't have time to handle.

Same with my idea of Marvel TV taking the darker superheroes and putting them in a new location.. like Chicago or even Detroit (there is some major advantages to filming in Detroit since they can go all out with property destruction). This allows them to function in a pocket of the Cinemaverse all to themselves until they might be needed for a crossover appearance within the much bigger tent-pole movies.

Plus, Marvel TV is taking a much smarter approach with Netflix by tackling each new character within a Miniseries. Just by doing that they can pull in bigger stars which can't commit to doing a full series run and allows for higher production value by putting more money into the show then worrying about how to budget a full season or commiting to a multi-season network deal. I'm pretty sure Marvel production learned their hard lesson with Agents Of SHIELD because their earlier ratings tanked because of all of the padding they had to do until their Hydra arc started which tied into the movies directly. Agents Of SHIELD would have had a much more impact if it has been a 13 episode miniseries with more focus on character building leading into the big reveal.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 03:31:52 PM
They just try to milk money from every imaginable hero and villan EXCEPT those people really wanted to see.
So are Thunderbolts still in Marvels hands?Is there a possibility for their film/show/series ?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 11, 2014, 04:32:23 PM
So wait, your complaint for Agents was that we weren't getting to see any superheroes, and now that they are using Netflix shows to effectively give us adaptations of additional Superheroes, you're complaining? And you don't see the giant freaking logic gap there? Wow. Just... wow man.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 04:45:08 PM
^I didnt complain.I even said I will chech out Daredevil.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 04:57:02 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 03:31:52 PM
They just try to milk money from every imaginable hero and villan EXCEPT those people really wanted to see.

Careful there Spade. I'm really getting the impression that sentence is "They just try to milk money from every imaginable hero and villan EXCEPT those I wanted to see." Unless you get manage to get majority stock rights or Kevin Feige's job.. you will just have to live with the Marvel master plan (which nobody knows outside of closed doors). I never thought I'd see a Guardians Of The Galaxy and Ant-Man movie..  but they allow doors to be opened to a bigger universe.

Plus Sony and FOX will neeeeever let go of X-Men, Fantastic Four, and Spider-Man unless they nearly bankrupt their studios and I doubt that will ever happen and team-ups with Marvel Studios will also never happen because the other studios don't want to share in the profits or control of the characters. Sony would never allow Spider-Man to web swing into Avengers Tower and join the team to fight Thanos in Avengers 3 if there was a possibility he would end up wounded or killed.. and Sony would demand the film be called "Spider-Man And The New Avengers" or something silly to make sure their character got top billing just to even appear in another studio film.

Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 03:31:52 PM
So are Thunderbolts still in Marvels hands?Is there a possibility for their film/show/series ?

Thunderbolts would work in the same concept of a villain team like Sony is doing with Sinister Six. Except that the villains are trying to pass themselves off as an alternate Avengers team but find they actually conflicted when they start realizing being a hero isn't such a bad thing. I could see it working much farther down the line with Marvel Studios once they get a significant amount of villains to pull from. Maybe they might try to pull the current concept by having General "Thunderbolt" Ross pull a strike team from prisoners.. maybe even getting Abomination as their team muscle.. I doubt they would ever try to do Red Hulk unless The Leader gets involved as the Big Bad and Ross gets captured and experimented on. I could see it as a Netflix miniseries but it could be a tent pole movie if they got the right people involved.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on June 11, 2014, 05:04:54 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 03:31:52 PM
They just try to milk money from every imaginable hero and villan EXCEPT those people really wanted to see.
So are Thunderbolts still in Marvels hands?Is there a possibility for their film/show/series ?

Who are these heroes & villains that "people" really want to see that aren't getting used?  Everyone doesn't have the same taste, plus Frickin' Deathlok is getting used on a tv show.  Are you holding your breath for the Adventures of Cypher and Warlock?

Quote from: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 04:57:02 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 03:31:52 PM
So are Thunderbolts still in Marvels hands?Is there a possibility for their film/show/series ?

Thunderbolts would work in the same concept of a villain team like Sony is doing with Sinister Six. Except that the villains are trying to pass themselves off as an alternate Avengers team but find they actually conflicted when they start realizing being a hero isn't such a bad thing. I could see it working much farther down the line with Marvel Studios once they get a significant amount of villains to pull from. Maybe they might try to pull the current concept by having General "Thunderbolt" Ross pull a strike team from prisoners.. maybe even getting Abomination as their team muscle.. I doubt they would ever try to do Red Hulk unless The Leader gets involved as the Big Bad and Ross gets captured and experimented on. I could see it as a Netflix miniseries but it could be a tent pole movie if they got the right people involved.

- CQ

Or they could do the other Thunderbolts concept, the one borrowed from Suicide Squad: villains coerced to work for the government in exchange for reduced sentences.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 05:31:15 PM
^For example there cant be Norman Osborn,which cuts us of from Dark Avengers,Siege storyline,H.A.M.M.E.R which are all kinda big deals,right?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on June 11, 2014, 07:36:56 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 05:31:15 PM
^For example there cant be Norman Osborn,which cuts us of from Dark Avengers,Siege storyline,H.A.M.M.E.R which are all kinda big deals,right?

Dark Avengers was just the original Thunderbolts concept - villains pretend to be heroes to fleece the public.  Totally doable without Norman Osborn.  HAMMER was just a vaguely evil SHIELD replacement, which is again, totally doable after the events of the Winter Soldier.  The Siege storyline is undoable until they do about 6 more Thor movies, detailing Ragnarok and the rebirth of the Norse gods in the American midwest.  The real villains of Siege were the Sentry and the Hood anyway, 2 Bendis favourites I hope never make it the MCU on account of their terribleness.  For all of these stories you could replace Osborn with some sort of self-serving power hungry guy in charge and get the same result.

More to the point, is anyone clamoring for those storylines to be adapted into film?  Dark Avengers was made largely up of villains who wish they were B-list.  Some of the ideas of HAMMER have already been done now with the Winter Soldier reveal and the Siege storyline was never one of Marvel's finest.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 07:45:18 PM
^It was just an example,ok?
Not that Im rooting for any of those things,I was just using those  as an EXAMLE.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 07:47:09 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 05:31:15 PM
^For example there cant be Norman Osborn,which cuts us of from Dark Avengers,Siege storyline,H.A.M.M.E.R which are all kinda big deals,right?

Well, those stories CAN be done.. but just not using Norman Osborn as long as they are connected to Marvel Studios films.. heck, they could have Justin Hammer from Iron Man 2 fill in for being the criminal mastermind behind trying to rebuild SHIELD using his own concept and even assembling his own team of Dark Avengers (hey, we can only hope with The Ten Rings breaking out Trevor out of prison that maybe Hammer escapes too). Iron Patriot is Rhodey now in the movies and rumors are that he will be wearing the red, white, and blue armor in Avengers 2, so unless Justin steals the suit for himself I doubt we will have Iron Patriot leading the Dark Avengers either.

I hate to say it.. but Marvel Animation is pretty much the only way we will ever get a fully represented Marvel Universe and the best shot of that was in Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes because they were not afraid of doing dark storylines or taking risks. Ultimate Spider-Man is crossing over into The Avengers show but I doubt that they would ever touch Seige, Dark Avengers, or even the Secret Invasion stories for that matter being a far more "family friendly" version of Marvel Animation.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 11, 2014, 07:54:56 PM
^So basicly any1 can do Osborns job?Sure,why not?
If these series get any kind of ratings there is gonna be more.
Ofcourse not every storyline can be covered but there is a slew of charachters for the shows.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 11, 2014, 08:14:21 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 07:54:56 PM
^So basicly any1 can do Osborns job?Sure,why not?
If these series get any kind of ratings there is gonna be more.
Ofcourse not every storyline can be covered but there is a slew of charachters for the shows.

The problem is there was a running theme with Osborn in those stories.. He was trying to redeem his public image and seperate himself from Green Goblin. So, Secret Invasion gives him the opportunity to look like a hero when trust in heroes was at it lowest. He uses that moment to take Osborne Industuries finances to help rebuild SHIELD which was torn apart during the previous few years of storylines, and then creating Dark Avengers using a patriotic symbol with all of the Iron Man technology he stole, which of course pushes him over the edge into masterminding The Seige. Only Osborn could pull off that entire storyline because he was a cunning mastermind and Marvel editors agreed that it was finally time to see Norman Osborn become a major villain for a change. All of those key elements could be planned by any major businessman villain or political person with business contacts but Osborn just gave it that epic madman running amok flavor which made it awesome. But thanks to Sony owning Spider-Man, It will never happen.. most we get is seeing Norman and Harry running Oscorp and creating super villains for Spider-Man and his Spider-Friends (or whatever they call his superhero friends that came along with the rights to the whole Spider-Man comic library) to battle in the films to come.

Now how will you get to see all of those comic stories with all of the heroes under one studio and them not being afraid to take it directly from comic page to screen? Just wait around 30 years when Fox and Sony have exhausted their movie idea options and let the rights return back into Marvel Studios under the all powerful Disney which will own all of the major franchises by then.. and they can make a fully CGI Marvel Universe using digitally scanned actors which they don't have to pay anything but likeness fees.

Now getting back on topic.. Netflix seems to be the biggest tool for Marvel Studios in getting these miniseries to introduce characters that need more then cameos in Agents Of SHIELD or Agent Carter or their tent pole movies to flesh out. I'm hoping for the best.

-CQ 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on June 11, 2014, 08:53:56 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 11, 2014, 07:45:18 PM
^It was just an example,ok?
Not that Im rooting for any of those things,I was just using those  as an EXAMLE.

Okay, but your complaint was that they're milking all their characters "except those people really want to see."  Who are these people?  What characters do they want to see that Marvel isn't using? 

It remains to be seen how well these Netflix shows will do, as Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and Jessica Jones aren't really known outside comic circles, and Daredevil didn't exactly set the world on fire with his feature film, but people have seemed to want to see the characters that Marvel is choosing to use so far.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 11, 2014, 09:17:05 PM
Invariably he's talking about Spiderman, X-men, and Punisher. We've discussed the first two to death (it's not a matter of spending money to get them back because they have contracts with these companies, Marvel had no way of knowing they'd be in this position when they made the contracts, and nothing they do now will change anything anyway.) and we've established that there are ways to bring Punisher in later, they just aren't right now.

Move. On.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 11, 2014, 09:42:25 PM
It is possibly that some things from Spider-Man could be used in Marvel.  A deal was already struck to use the Oscorp tower from the newest Spider Man in the Avengers, but the cgi for the building didn't get finished in time.  I doubt we'll ever have Spider Man himself or any of the major characters, though, but Osborn could at least be name dropped at some point.

The X-Men are out completely though.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 12, 2014, 04:51:27 AM
@Tomato Im not gonna list those guys this time,but you forgot the Fantastic Four.
In CA:WS Stephen Strange is mentioned so can we expect his show?I didnt even pick up on Crossbones apperence in that movie btw.
With the destruction of Hydra and A.I.M. stage is set for The Exchange so Punishers story is basicly ready.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 12, 2014, 05:46:14 AM
Quote from: Spade on June 12, 2014, 04:51:27 AM
In CA:WS Stephen Strange is mentioned so can we expect his show?I didnt even pick up on Crossbones apperence in that movie btw.

First, Doctor Strange is getting his own movie in Phase 3 of the cinemaverse.. along with Ant-Man, Captain America 3, Thor 3, and possibly Black Panther (as least that's the rumor)... which all lead to Avengers 3 which is when Thanos gets possession of The Infinity Gauntlet. The seeds for this are planted all over the Phase 1 & 2 movies if you look for them.

Now, Brock Rumlow is who appeared in CA:WS because it was Crossbones origin story.. only the die hard fans would pick up on his real name and most believe he died in the Hellicarrier Crash until his burned body was shown be rushed into the ER of a Hydra base. I'm very sure he will return in Captain America 3 in full costume as Crossbones.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 12, 2014, 06:44:56 AM
Quote from: Spade on June 12, 2014, 04:51:27 AM
@Tomato Im not gonna list those guys this time,but you forgot the Fantastic Four.
In CA:WS Stephen Strange is mentioned so can we expect his show?I didnt even pick up on Crossbones apperence in that movie btw.
With the destruction of Hydra and A.I.M. stage is set for The Exchange so Punishers story is basicly ready.

Yeah, that's not happening.

Hydra's not destroyed.  Even if they were and they didn't want to bring AIM back, they still wouldn't use the Exchange.  As much as you or I may like the Punisher, audiences haven't responded well.  At all.  So what they may end up doing is what they always do in comics with characters THEY like that aren't connecting with audiences:
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/10/20/marvels-kevin-feige-were-trying-to-figure-out-what-to-do-with-daredevil-now/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 12, 2014, 06:52:27 AM
It was just wild guessing on my part.Who can know what is planned?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 12, 2014, 09:07:46 AM
*sigh*

I didn't forget the Fantastic Four. The Fantastic Four are contracted out the same as X-men and Spiderman, and the same things I said about those franchises apply equally to Fantastic Four. The only difference is that, because Fantastic Four isn't as big a franchise, and the last few films haven't done well, it's more likely Marvel will eventually get them back... especially with Fox doing a "a much more grounded, gritty, realistic movie" for the reboot, which contradicts the nature of the comic (not to mention the freaking title)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 12, 2014, 11:04:38 AM
^And to conclude you think these miniseries will work towards Defenders?
BTW why does everything EVER has to happen in New York?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Reepicheep on June 12, 2014, 11:11:48 AM
Quote from: Spade on June 12, 2014, 11:04:38 AM
^And to conclude you think these miniseries will work towards Defenders?
BTW why does everything EVER has to happen in New York?

War of the Worlds happened in Woking, UK.

And we're damn proud.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on June 12, 2014, 11:23:36 AM
Don't know much about the guy playing Kingpin, but everywhere I read, people are really happy with the choice, so that's cool.

Although his acting ability comes first, I hope they make him really big and imposing in the show.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 12, 2014, 11:42:49 AM
^Whos playing Kingpin?You could have posted a pic or a link?
@Reep You should check out Marvel CU thread,maybe you can explain some stuff about locations.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on June 12, 2014, 12:28:27 PM
It was posted on the first page.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 12, 2014, 01:14:34 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 12, 2014, 11:42:49 AM
^Whos playing Kingpin?You could have posted a pic or a link?

*sigh* Okay, Time for a Vincent D'Onofrio crash course...

First up, he played the role of the construction worker mistaken as Thor in ADVENTURES IN BABYSITTING: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rnTpR4M1ZI (yes, it technically makes him the first official person identified as Mighty Thor on screen).

Then he played his most known role.. Private "Gomer Pyle" Lawrence in FULL METAL JACKET: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAZI4ydY6R8

And then he played Edger The Alien Bug in MEN IN BLACK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzMDGYKLSzk

Finally, Vincent spent several years playing Detective Robert "Bobby" Goren on LAW & ORDER: CRIMINAL INTENT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hog1HqHL_a8

Now why does he fit Kingpin? First of all... He is naturally 6'4" in height and fairly big in body mass (muscular and often overweight for certain roles). Not counting the above roles he is known for... he is a Broadway actor and very accomplished in drama and comedy.

Note: Let this sink in.. Vincent has the the same height and muscle mass that Michael Clarke Duncan did.. and Mikey added 40 lbs of fat on top of that when he played Kingpin in the Daredevil movie.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on June 12, 2014, 01:23:27 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 12, 2014, 11:04:38 AM
^And to conclude you think these miniseries will work towards Defenders?
BTW why does everything EVER has to happen in New York?

That's just Marvel comics.  New York has a billion superheroes, the rest of the world has about 10.  The movies have been better about that, with Iron Man at first based out of California, but either way, if I lived in the Marvel universe, I don't think I'd want to live in New York city.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 12, 2014, 01:42:14 PM
^Seriously?With daily alien invasions and supervillan attacks?
I would go for...no heroes in Tuckson right? :)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 12, 2014, 11:31:27 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 12, 2014, 11:04:38 AM
^And to conclude you think these miniseries will work towards Defenders?
BTW why does everything EVER has to happen in New York?

Not think, it's been official announced.  Four individual 13 episode mini series, then a 13 episode Defenders mini series.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on June 13, 2014, 04:35:16 AM
New York is used so much mostly because it increases story potential. Everyone's there so it's easy access to other characters. Everytime I read a book set elsewhere there's usually a feeling of isolation to it. Sometimes that's good, sometimes not.

Looked up some pics of Vincent D'Onofrio, I wasn't really familiar with him outside MIB and that was a long time. Based on appearance I could really see him working as Kingpin! I really hope he's good, he's a key piece in my mind.

What Marvel is doing with these Netflix shows seems promising. Comics lend themselves better to serialized format anyway, and hopefully Netflix will lead to a higher quality than is possible on a normal network TV format.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 13, 2014, 05:23:29 AM
That and the contract IS with the city of New York as well.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 13, 2014, 05:24:46 AM
I like that Netflix releses whole shows at once sometimes,so you can binge watch it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BWPS on June 13, 2014, 01:32:12 PM
Me too! I've been loving Orange is the New Black.  Only thing I don't like about it is its hard to talk about with people whoop are ahead of you.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 13, 2014, 01:37:55 PM
^Thats a problem with a lot of long-runners.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on June 20, 2014, 07:43:26 PM
YES!!!

http://www.superherohype.com/news/305873-rosario-dawson-joins-marvel-studios-daredevil
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on June 20, 2014, 09:11:48 PM
Rosario Dawson joins Daredevil!!! Very good actress and i have to say it she is incredibly hot (that makes no difference in the series but i had to mention it)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 21, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Vincent D'onofrio doesnt look much like Kingpin.He reminds me more on Tombstone from Spectacular Spiderman.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 21, 2014, 05:20:46 AM
Quote from: Spade on June 21, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Vincent D'onofrio doesnt look much like Kingpin.He reminds me more on Tombstone from Spectacular Spiderman.

Tombstone is just another crime boss in New York's underground, he just happens to be an albino with super hard skin and sharpens his teeth. Kingpin as he is typically drawn in the comics is that of a sumo Wrestler in a Business Suit with a Diamondhead Cane, not many actors who are willing to put on sumo wrestler weight just to play a character for half of a year. So we usually end up with the very tall, muscular, and extra weight in the gut version.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 21, 2014, 06:33:22 AM
I know how Kinpin look like,thank you.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Cyber Burn on June 21, 2014, 06:59:32 AM
I've been staying quiet since I don't have Netflix, but as a huge fan of older episodes of "Law and Order: Criminal Intent", I have to say that Vincent D'Onofrio would portray the Kingpin very well, bringing an excellent sense of strength to the character.

Quote from: Spade on June 21, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Vincent D'onofrio doesnt look much like Kingpin.He reminds me more on Tombstone from Spectacular Spiderman.

Spade, it's more about presentation than the physical appearance of the actor that will matter in the long run.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Starman on June 21, 2014, 07:06:01 AM
There aren't any actors who look like the classic comic book Kingpin ... the character has an appearance that is so huge and stylised its impossible to replicate without it looking super fake.

Vincent D'onofrio, who is quite big and heavy anyway, with a bald head and a nice suit would nail it.

I'm guessing Rosario Dawson is playing Night Nurse?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on June 21, 2014, 12:12:52 PM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on June 21, 2014, 06:59:32 AM
I've been staying quiet since I don't have Netflix, but as a huge fan of older episodes of "Law and Order: Criminal Intent", I have to say that Vincent D'Onofrio would portray the Kingpin very well, bringing an excellent sense of strength to the character.

Quote from: Spade on June 21, 2014, 05:02:00 AM
Vincent D'onofrio doesnt look much like Kingpin.He reminds me more on Tombstone from Spectacular Spiderman.

Spade, it's more about presentation than the physical appearance of the actor that will matter in the long run.

Spade i love how eager you are to tear every Marvel movie or actor for extremely abnoxious reasons yet you are perfectly fine with every DC decision. I think this is called bias.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 21, 2014, 12:22:17 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 21, 2014, 06:33:22 AM
I know how Kinpin look like,thank you.

As others have stated, he looks like no human being ever.  Okay, there have been very, very few of his size, but they are so heavy they can barely move, let alone act.  Sorry, but any live action portrayal of the Kingpin won't look nearly as large as his comic book counterpart.  Deal with it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 21, 2014, 03:54:44 PM
Guys,guys just chill.I just said he reminds me more on Tombstones version.Which is OK.
About being ok with everything DC does IM NOT.For example MoS was too dark for a superman movie imo.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on June 21, 2014, 06:36:38 PM
After a bit of googling
(http://i.tm-cdn.com/photos/77602.jpg)

Ya he's gonna be awesome.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 21, 2014, 06:47:09 PM
^Doesnt he remind you of Uncle Phil? XD
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on June 21, 2014, 06:53:07 PM
Quote from: bat1987 on June 21, 2014, 06:36:38 PM
After a bit of googling
(http://i.tm-cdn.com/photos/77602.jpg)

Ya he's gonna be awesome.

Yes, based solely on appearances, he will do very nicely.  Since I hear he's also a fine actor, we have a very good thing there.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on June 21, 2014, 09:21:02 PM
Quote from: Spade on June 21, 2014, 06:47:09 PM
^Doesnt he remind you of Uncle Phil? XD

He does actually  :lol:

Bat I saw the same pic a while back it sold me on him too. Have to wait and see of course.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: laughing paradox on June 21, 2014, 09:48:00 PM
I see Rosario Dawson playing White Tiger.

Or even better, Typhoid Mary.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on June 21, 2014, 11:01:33 PM
Quote from: laughing paradox on June 21, 2014, 09:48:00 PM
Or even better, Typhoid Mary.

Yes please!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: detourne_me on June 22, 2014, 09:12:39 AM
Ok.... First guesses of her playing Echo seemed weird to me.   I could see them wanting her for White Tiger. With the recent exposure from ultimate spidey cartoon and mighty avenger series, Marvel may want to make White Tiger a more prominent hero.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on June 22, 2014, 11:39:30 PM
Most speculation I've seen is that she's playing Elektra.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on June 23, 2014, 05:52:43 PM
I hope she's not playing Elektra, just because of the rehash of the previous film.  White Tiger would be cool.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: XStream on June 24, 2014, 12:32:47 AM
I'm hoping for White Tiger as well. I think it could be a cool costume.

Of course I am one of the few people who actually enjoyed the first season of Ultimate Spider-Man.... Come on, after you get past the whole "But this replaced Spectacular Spider-Man!" thing it was an enjoyable toon...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on June 24, 2014, 02:17:10 AM
Am I missing something here?  Why does everybody thinks that she will be playing as a costume hero?  I thought she may be his love interest or "sidekick".  Anyway, she being label as a possible "Night Nurse" if anybody remembers that character.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on June 24, 2014, 03:02:17 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 24, 2014, 02:17:10 AM
Am I missing something here?  Why does everybody thinks that she will be playing as a costume hero?  I thought she may be his love interest or "sidekick".  Anyway, she being label as a possible "Night Nurse" if anybody remembers that character.

Makes sense, Night Nurse is probably one of Daredevil's most significant supporting characters since her role ties into both his costumed life and his lawyer life. Plus if they were going to crossover into other hero shows Night Nurse would be taking care of other street level heroes as well.. so there could be lots of room for name dropping just in passing conversations.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on June 24, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
Hey, that guy does look the part of the Kingpin.  I hope these shows turn out to be good, not too obsessed with being 'grim and gritty.'
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on June 25, 2014, 04:45:00 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 24, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
Hey, that guy does look the part of the Kingpin.  I hope these shows turn out to be good, not too obsessed with being 'grim and gritty.'

...Except that Daredevil is 'grim and gritty', usually anyway. Any given adaption of Daredevil, including this one, is likely to draw from the Frank Miller days; it can't be anything but 'grim and gritty.' And likewise, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, and Jessica Jones/Alias all have a 'gritter' and/or more urban tone to them than more mainstream Marvel comics, such as Captain America or Thor. And there's nothing wrong with being 'grim and gritty' if done right.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Starman on June 25, 2014, 08:44:28 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 24, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
Hey, that guy does look the part of the Kingpin.  I hope these shows turn out to be good, not too obsessed with being 'grim and gritty.'

It's ... Daredevil. Aside from Mark Waid's current run, the best runs of Daredevil are the gritty runs of Frank Miller, Ann Noncenti, Brian Michael Benis, Ed Brubaker and Andy Diggle.

As kkhohoho mentioned, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are two more "street level" heroes. Luke Cage's background includes street gangs and prisons and he operated in Harlem. Jessica Jones was introduced via her own mature-aged Marvel MAX series as a private investigator. You can't really do either of these characters without being gritty.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on June 25, 2014, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: Starman on June 25, 2014, 08:44:28 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 24, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
Hey, that guy does look the part of the Kingpin.  I hope these shows turn out to be good, not too obsessed with being 'grim and gritty.'

It's ... Daredevil. Aside from Mark Waid's current run, the best runs of Daredevil are the gritty runs of Frank Miller, Ann Noncenti, Brian Michael Benis, Ed Brubaker and Andy Diggle.

As kkhohoho mentioned, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are two more "street level" heroes. Luke Cage's background includes street gangs and prisons and he operated in Harlem. Jessica Jones was introduced via her own mature-aged Marvel MAX series as a private investigator. You can't really do either of these characters without being gritty.

Mark Waid has a pretty great Daredevil run going right now, and it's about the least grim Daredevil has ever been.  It's refreshing.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on June 25, 2014, 02:34:23 PM
Quote from: Talavar on June 25, 2014, 01:54:45 PM
Quote from: Starman on June 25, 2014, 08:44:28 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on June 24, 2014, 04:11:51 PM
Hey, that guy does look the part of the Kingpin.  I hope these shows turn out to be good, not too obsessed with being 'grim and gritty.'

It's ... Daredevil. Aside from Mark Waid's current run, the best runs of Daredevil are the gritty runs of Frank Miller, Ann Noncenti, Brian Michael Benis, Ed Brubaker and Andy Diggle.

As kkhohoho mentioned, Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are two more "street level" heroes. Luke Cage's background includes street gangs and prisons and he operated in Harlem. Jessica Jones was introduced via her own mature-aged Marvel MAX series as a private investigator. You can't really do either of these characters without being gritty.

Mark Waid has a pretty great Daredevil run going right now, and it's about the least grim Daredevil has ever been.  It's refreshing.

That's still just one run, and it's the most recent, built on years of established continuity. Any Daredevil adaption made nowadays is likely to look back towards the earlier material, including the grim and gritty stuff.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on June 26, 2014, 02:00:01 AM
I have a feeling being on Netflix will give the creators the freedom to be more "grim and gritty". That said I don't think they'll go too far as this is still part of the MCU and they won't want to alienate too much of the existing audience.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 14, 2014, 02:59:10 AM
Thread hasn't been updated in a while, and not sure if it should be split into a separate thread for just Daredevil either.  But for the time being, here's an update for the series.  a screenshot of Daredevil in and out of "costume". 

http://www.theverge.com/2014/10/12/6965551/this-is-what-marvels-daredevil-will-look-like-on-netflix

FYI, the series, which will be a set 13 episode, single story-arc series that will be followed by similar series featuring Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and Luke Cage and a final series featuring all four as The Defenders.  It is set to premiere next May, also starring Deborah Ann Woll(True Blood), Elden Henson(Mighty Ducks series/The Hunger Games: Mockingjay), Rosario Dawson(Sin City/Sin City: A Dame to Kill For/Clerks 2) and Vincent D'Onofrio(Full Metal Jacket/Law & Order: Criminal Intent).
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on October 14, 2014, 03:03:21 AM
So the movies will have the Avengers and the TV will have the Defenders.  I'm ok with this.  When I was a kid I always thought of the Defenders as a street level Avengers type team
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Starman on October 15, 2014, 12:37:19 AM
Pretty much everything I've read about the "Daredevil" TV show so far has sounded good to me. Then again, so did the press for "The Strain"...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: lugaru on October 16, 2014, 10:42:13 PM
Quote from: Tomato on June 11, 2014, 09:00:57 AM
Except that goes against the nature of the Punisher's origin... sure, he might get more brutal as time goes on, but the reason Punisher starts killing people is very specific: he kills criminals because of the death of his family. There is no shift like you're describing, ever... they die, he starts killing criminals.

Kinda... sorta... Garth Ennis did a lot to humanize The Punisher but he also made him into a slightly Dexter character... he did a BUNCH of tours of nam because he could not really stop. Sure, a tragedy set him off but he was always looking for a new war. Jason Aaron also carried this on a little further, making it so that Frank Castle was going a little Taxi Driver while his family was still alive and when they died... it was in a way a convenient excuse for him to declare one final and never ending war.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: lugaru on October 16, 2014, 10:43:30 PM
Quote from: Starman on October 15, 2014, 12:37:19 AM
Pretty much everything I've read about the "Daredevil" TV show so far has sounded good to me. Then again, so did the press for "The Strain"...

How is that anyways? I love the first two novels (have not started the 3rd) but the show has apparently been way under the radar (it does not get covered much) which makes me think it may not be too successful.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Starman on October 19, 2014, 01:02:10 AM
QuoteHow is that anyways? I love the first two novels (have not started the 3rd) but the show has apparently been way under the radar (it does not get covered much) which makes me think it may not be too successful.

I'm not a fan of the novels, but even so, the show was a pretty lame adaptation. A considerable amount of the dialogue, acting and direction was poor ... it's a show that you could file alongside Under The Dome, The Following, Helix, etc, although it's admittedly better than those shows. And The Master looks really, really silly.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on December 26, 2014, 06:03:08 AM
SWEET (Merry) CHRISTMAS!

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/23/showbiz/tv/feat-mike-coulter-luke-cage/

Also buried within this was the news that Krysten Ritter(the "B in Apartment 23") has been cast as Jessica Jones.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on January 30, 2015, 01:43:13 AM
So word on the street is that David Tennant will be playing the main antagonist of the Jessica Jones show, supposedly as Zebidiah Kilgrave, aka the Purple Man.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on January 30, 2015, 02:21:57 AM
 That's actually confirmed.  (http://marvel.com/news/tv/23978/david_tennant_joins_marvels_aka_jessica_jones_for_netflix)

While many geeks know Tennant as The Doctor (he's my favorite of the modern era Doctors), I saw a little bit of him on Gracepoint and he seemed really good in that. So I'm sure he'll be great in this. It's a really promising casting. They say he might not be The Purple Man right away though, which I'm ok with. His brief appearance in the 4th Harry Potter movie proves that he can play a creepy villain.

I never read Alias, but Purple Man was a great villain in New Thunderbolts.  I look forward to seeing how they do him in the show.

In addition, Rachel Taylor has been cast as Patsy Walker/Hellcat.  (http://marvel.com/news/tv/24001/rachael_taylor_the_latest_to_join_marvels_aka_jessica_jones)

She will apparently be radio host Patricia "Trish" Walker. I had no idea who Taylor was, until I read that she was the Australian hacker in the first Bayformers movie. No idea if she'll be any good in this.

I'll also say that based on her role in Breaking Bad (the only thing I've seen her in) I think Krysten Ritter will do a good job as Jessica Jones. She was my favorite of the actresses that were said to be in the running.

The Netflix shows are shaping up to be surprisingly promising so far.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on February 03, 2015, 06:33:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stsqf9ljurA

Teaser... with a full trailer coming tomorrow apparently.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on February 04, 2015, 03:26:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Arq9uWvqd2w
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Midnite on February 04, 2015, 05:01:11 PM
Marvel's Daredevil Full Teaser Trailer (http://www.dcuopost.com/multiverse-news/marvels-daredevil-teaser-trailer/)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on February 04, 2015, 05:13:22 PM
Looks really good! The shot of Kingpin was exactly what I thought it would be. Also its just funny how people are freaking out about the costume already. I mean if you plan on doing that at least inform yourself before doing so. It's based on the comics and they also said he will be going to his more traditional red suit eventually.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on March 02, 2015, 07:08:34 PM
Kingpin fully revealed. Looks powerful and intimidating like he should. Hopefully he wears his white suit at some point.

http://www.newsarama.com/23669-kingpin-rises-in-new-daredevil-images.html
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on March 02, 2015, 07:25:20 PM
He looks great!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 02, 2015, 10:48:15 PM
Yeah, very impressed. Definitely looks the part. I'm always surprised he's the same guy who played Edgar in the original Men in Black movie.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 03, 2015, 12:43:27 AM
I saw this elsewhere, and yeah, he looked like the kingpin.  They actually got him to look even larger than I thought they would making him a good match.  Very impressive.

Edit: This isn't actually the picture I saw before.  This is.  Gives you an even better look at him.

http://www.nerdist.com/2015/03/marvel-daredevil-netflix-series-first-look-kingpin-vincent-donofrio/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on April 11, 2015, 07:12:42 AM
So... Daredevil's entire season is on Netflix now. I'm on episode 3, and... wow. This show has been amazing.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Figure Fan on April 11, 2015, 09:09:14 AM
I'm on episode 7 currently and I agree with Tomato. Such great casting all around.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 11, 2015, 10:19:25 AM
Im on episode 3,and its okay.Not great,but okay.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 11, 2015, 12:06:37 PM
I'm up to episode 3 as well and it must be pretty good because the Mrs is watching it with me and she's not a big comic fan.  She loves how the Kingpin was introduce, but she didn't like the fact that in the first episode how they kept mentioning the attack from the Avengers movie.  We get it, they are in the same universe.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on April 11, 2015, 03:15:50 PM
You get it, the general audience might not realize it since the tone is kinda darker. Also, i think they referenced 2-3 times. That isn't overkill in a 55 minute episode  :D
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on April 11, 2015, 03:27:03 PM
Out of curiosity Spade which superhero show do you consider the best or even great?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 11, 2015, 04:36:13 PM
Quote from: Jimaras8 on April 11, 2015, 03:27:03 PM
Out of curiosity Spade which superhero show do you consider the best or even great?

I rather wouldnt,since then it would turn into pointless comparison and people dumping  on me cuz of this and that.
Lets just say I liked the show,its 8/10 to me.  ;)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 11, 2015, 05:17:15 PM
Quote from: Jimaras8 on April 11, 2015, 03:27:03 PM
Out of curiosity Spade which superhero show do you consider the best or even great?

I'm going off subject for one moment:
That's a loaded question.  I'm the type of person, who favorite show is the whatever playing this season, so for me it would be Agents of Shield, Flash, Arrow, etc.  Nice try Jimara8, LOL!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on April 11, 2015, 05:45:46 PM
You can both relax. I wasn't going to start a fight. I have no strength for that right now. I am just really suprised that the show is just ok for Spade. never mind, your call.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 11, 2015, 06:14:01 PM
Like I said,im only 3 episodes in,so that was only my opinion on those episodes.
Okay,I will ask,why are you suprised? XD
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on April 11, 2015, 07:53:52 PM
I'm about to start episode 8 (I have the day off, so I'm doing a lot of binge watching). I'm really enjoying it, and I gotta say, whoever's doing the audio editing and foley work is earning their collective paychecks with this series. There's a real focus on sound throughout the entire show that does a nice job of balancing an emphasis on sound, without overdoing it and making the meaning of the sounds too obvious. It really helps to build a stronger connection with Daredevil.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 11, 2015, 11:36:57 PM
Quote from: Jimaras8 on April 11, 2015, 05:45:46 PM
You can both relax. I wasn't going to start a fight. I have no strength for that right now. I am just really suprised that the show is just ok for Spade. never mind, your call.

I was just playing with you guys, It's been a great weekend for me so with DD on Netflix and a stack of comics by my side, that I have to catch up on. Weekend Win  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: murs47 on April 12, 2015, 07:44:00 PM
I binge watched a big chunk of this yesterday, and finished the final few episodes this morning. Pretty darn good. It's only flaw, IMO, is the Kingpin. Other than, great stuff. I'm very much looking forward to next season.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 13, 2015, 01:10:36 PM
I've only seen the first 4 episode and so far i think the Kingpin is spot on.  He's always cool and clam with everything except for Vanessa.  She was the only one who really knew him.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Thunder on April 13, 2015, 03:33:39 PM
I agree that Kingpin is spot on.  The actors really know their characters' motivations.  That is a rare treat in entertainment these days.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on April 17, 2015, 08:07:33 AM
Finally managed the watch the entire season. It's fantastic, the story, the characters, the actors, fight scenes. Everything was top notch work. Cox and D'Onofrio were the highlights for me. Bring on season 2! :thumbup:
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on April 19, 2015, 01:23:55 AM
I've got up to Episode 5 and, I have to say, this has to be one of the best things to ever come out of the MCU. Sure, there's been other good stuff too but, the acting, the direction, the acting, the cinematography, the acting, the writing, the acting (there's some really darn good acting in this, in case you couldn't tell,) it's all just phenomenal. I feel like I'm watching a really long movie rather than just your average TV show. And yes, the actor playing the Kingpin does a bang-up job, though I can see why some people don't like his portrayal. The thing is, the Kingpin isn't the Kingpin yet. Most of the series' shows how Fisk becomes the Kingpin, much like how Matt becomes Daredevil, which further adds to the parallels the show makes between the two. And while there are a number of details that are different from the comics, what's important is the spirit of the thing, and this show gets it down pat. Here's hoping the remaining episodes live up what I've seen so far. Two thumbs up. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 19, 2015, 11:53:58 AM
I saw the rest of the series on Friday and it is good.  The whole cast was good and you'll the exact point when Fisk becomes the Kingpin.

I think this was an Easter Egg: 
Spoiler
The little boy that the Japanese had in cargo was an inhuman

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Uncle Yuan on April 19, 2015, 12:52:59 PM
I watched the first three episodes last night, and I have to agree that this is a very well produced and well acted series.  I'm really looking forward to exploring the rest of the season and I think this portends great things for Heroes for Hire (or whatever they're going to call it).

I will count myself in the group who thinks Vincent D'Onofrio is an odd casting for Kingpin.  But at this point I've only seen him on screen for about 30 seconds and D'Onofrio is a good enough actor that I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt.  I will say that I've always pictured Kingpin as being tightly wound, always on the edge of exploding.  So far (but again, 30 seconds) he just seems repressed, even sedated.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on April 19, 2015, 01:54:33 PM
Let's just say the events of this series have a profound impact on both his goals and personality.  kkhohoho's right in that this is basically one big origin story for both the Kingpin and Daredevil.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Uncle Yuan on April 19, 2015, 06:20:20 PM
Then I will look forward to the development of the character.  As I said, the acting is top notch, especially the supporting cast.  Foggy, Karen, Jack are all outstanding, but Vondie Curtis-Hall (Ben Urich) is the one who's really grabbed my attention so far.  Can't wait to see what they do with him.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on April 19, 2015, 07:59:17 PM
Yep, really enjoyed this series as well.  Another success for Marvel, and it's really got me excited for the rest of the Netflix series.  Bring on Jessica Jones!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 19, 2015, 08:04:38 PM
Does anybody know if she will have powers in the show or just be a detective?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on April 19, 2015, 09:23:43 PM
The show description says she's a former superhero, so... Probably?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on April 22, 2015, 05:38:26 AM
So, I watched Daredevil, and I gotta say, it was pretty awesome.

D'onofrio was, when all is said and done, amazing as the Kingpin. At first I wasn't sure where they were going with his social awkward, OCD ticks, but in the end we got an incredibly intense and memorable performance that I find represents the character pretty well while leaving its own mark on him.

Spoiler
Bill Ulrich's death was genuinely shocking to me. I honestly thought they would have kept him on for the long haul, so I wasn't surprised to read that it was the results of executive meddling and/or rights issues.

Marvel Netflix seems to off to a cracking good start. At this rate they might actually give Arrow and Flash (the best shows on tv right now IMO, since that came up earlier in the thread) a run for their money. I say bring on Kristan Ritter and David Tennant!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 22, 2015, 06:56:44 AM
I gotta say,the whole mafia angle was a bit unconvincing in the end.Russian mob(they have a Taxi company,sounds familiar?) is very small for an organisation that runs human trafficing.I mean just the logistics of something like that would mean that they stretch FEW countries,and are very CONNECTED.Here its 20-30 guys who are basicly bullied by Kingpin.Thats just unbelivable to me...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on April 22, 2015, 01:13:19 PM
MARVEL.com just confirmed that NETFLIX just ordered Season TWO of DAREDEVIL. So, Looks like we will be getting to see Kingpin return to power but probably after having to clean out Hell's Kitchen from all of the bad eggs that will try to fill the power vacuum during his time away.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on April 22, 2015, 01:59:55 PM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on April 22, 2015, 05:38:26 AM
Spoiler
Bill Ulrich's death was genuinely shocking to me. I honestly thought they would have kept him on for the long haul, so I wasn't surprised to read that it was the results of executive meddling and/or rights issues.

Agreed,
Spoiler
it felt out of place and I honestly didn't expect it. Would have been a cool supporting character going forward for sure...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on April 22, 2015, 07:19:29 PM
Spoiler
I feel it's a missed opportunity. Ulrich is very much an important cog in the Daredevil machine (he even made it into the Ben Affleck film). It would be like Lois Lane died in the origin story of Superman. I expect we'll see a replacement character of some kind in season 2 Ray Palmer style.

That being sad D'onofrio was amazing in that scene. From lamenting internet cat videos (lolz) to the genuinely terrifying violence he displayed when he lunged to kill Ulrich, it actually kinda makes the whole regrettable situation worth it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 28, 2015, 11:04:22 PM
FINALLY!!!!

http://www.vigilantist.com/?p=148

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on April 29, 2015, 12:55:10 AM
Link's not working for me Jey, what is it?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on April 29, 2015, 01:04:28 AM
Spoiler
Netflix is producing a Punisher Series! :D
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on April 29, 2015, 01:21:46 AM
Sounds great. Oddly, the link worked for me, but only AFTER I got my reply in the thread.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 29, 2015, 02:06:40 AM
Quote from: spydermann93 on April 29, 2015, 01:04:28 AM
Spoiler
Netflix is producing a Punisher Series! :D

Thanks Spyder,

Here's another link: http://moviepilot.com/posts/2015/04/13/the-punisher-on-netflix-how-marvel-s-daredevil-has-paved-the-way-for-frank-castle-to-join-the-mcu-2837112?lt_source=external,manual
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 29, 2015, 04:11:15 AM
"celebrated 2006 event Civil War" yeah,right...
Anyway,Im not suprised that Punisher will be introduced.Also Im not that excited,considering Daredevil.It would be cool if they get Thomas Jane for the role again.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on April 29, 2015, 05:16:45 PM
Not a huge Punisher fan tbh. Still gonna check it out, regardless.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: XStream on April 30, 2015, 12:16:35 AM
Had a couple of days off work (thanks to a bacterial respiratory infection), and binged the whole season.

Loved every minute of it.  Wouldn't have wanted to split it up anymore than I had to.  It was an amazing story about a character that I honestly never cared much for (Marvel Cinematic Universe has been very successful at doing that for me).  Marvel's tendency to tell these stories slowly, well-written and character driven is what hooks me every time.  I did feel that they could have revealed the costume in the show a little earlier, and not just for the Kingpin fight.  It would have still been surprising for Fisk to see him in it for the first time.  It was some of the best TV I have ever seen.  I am definitely looking forward to Season 2 and the rest of Netflix partnership with Marvel.


Spoiler
And Ben's death totally caught me off guard.  I kept expecting something to happen that would keep the Kingpin from killing him... I was shocked when the episode ended with him motionless on the floor, and again when the next episode picked up at his funeral.  I love being shocked, but I hated to see the character go.

I want to give it less than a 10, but I think I am going to give up and give it an XStream rating of 10/10.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 02, 2015, 05:13:38 AM
Apparently Punisher already debuted.Hes the driver of the truck in Winter Soldier.The one Fury comments has a special set of  skills.Makes sense,I guess?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: lugaru on May 17, 2015, 09:54:52 PM
Finished Daredevil on Friday and figured this is the place where I would come to rant and rave.

- The show is oppressively, comically dark in terms of photography. I don't mind but I often caught myself thinking "Matt is blind, and so are you viewer!"
- The show is just adult enough without being too gratuitous, except the violence which does often go the extra mile to gross you out.
- The action is excellent, at times it does look a little stunty but for the most part it is heavily inspired by the realism and fluidity of Oldboy and modern Asian cinema. As in one guy cant beat up 10, but if he did, this is what it would look like.
- All performances are great, and characters really do play a role. I was a little surprised how little womanizing there was for a Matt Murdoch centered show... what do you mean the women are competent, capable and don't just fall into bed with him?!
- Kingpin seems a little exaggerated and hammy at first... but in the end it pays off as he becomes a real super-villain.
- The mix of darkness, grittiness, plausibility and stylized action givers Nolan a run for his money... on the small screen.
- My only real letdown was the last episode. I feel like Kingpin emerged as a menacing, larger than life figure and Daredevil emerged as Michael Keatons Batman. He looked a little stiff in that suit whenever a stunt double was not flipping around. Still very satisfying overall.

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 09, 2015, 09:08:23 PM
http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/jon-bernthal-daredevil-season-2-cast-1201515649/

And it looks like Daredevil will probably get a little darker.  The Walking Dead's Jon Bernthal will be the new Punisher.  This is on the heels of (failed??) negotiations with Jason Statham to play the role of Bullseye and reported  screen test of actress to play Elecktra.  I don't know if this means they are going a different direction or it's just an added storyline, but I'm looking forward to it either way.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on June 09, 2015, 09:18:39 PM
Supposedly Mysterio is going to make his grand debut, too! :P

I'm excited to hear that Punisher is showing up! I think that it will be a great way to introduce him before giving him his own series (which is happening!).

I can't wait!!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: bat1987 on June 09, 2015, 09:36:00 PM
Interesting choice for The Punisher. I can dig it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on June 10, 2015, 04:40:37 AM
Unexpected choice for sure.I dont watch WD so I cant judge.
Wonder if Punisher is gonna be a war veteran in this version?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: detourne_me on June 10, 2015, 12:00:02 PM
I think it's pretty great casting, Berenthal was just great in Fury, very unsettling.   I really feel like he's the first Punisher that actually has some acting gravitas to him. I know Ray Stevenson is great, but he didn't have much to work with. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Distorto on June 19, 2015, 06:50:01 PM
I just finished the Daredevil series and it was definitely better than I expected.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 26, 2015, 09:38:50 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywZE-NEJ2Ik (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywZE-NEJ2Ik)

Teaser for Jessica Jones.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BWPS on September 26, 2015, 04:30:11 PM
For some reason not knowing anything is just making me more excited.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2015, 04:40:50 PM
That's the old teaser that come out like weeks ago.  This is the new one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5g8v7szix0
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 26, 2015, 04:46:20 PM
I know nothing about the character.  The one I'm really excited about is the Heroes for Hire one.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2015, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 26, 2015, 04:46:20 PM
I know nothing about the character.  The one I'm really excited about is the Heroes for Hire one.

There isn't a Heroes for Hire show.  There are separate Luke Cage and Iron Fist shows.  Or maybe you mean The Defenders?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 26, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
I guess the story will be completely original,since the stories from Alias are pretty much unadaptable  in this setting.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2015, 05:26:56 PM
Quote from: Spade on September 26, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
I guess the story will be completely original,since the stories from Alias are pretty much unadaptable  in this setting.

I am not familiar with Alias, but how?  Unless it's special effects, we're talking on online platform with no censorship other than what Netflix itself imposes.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 26, 2015, 05:32:05 PM
Well in one story she searches for Rick Jones,another involves Spider-woman and mutant growth hormone.Most of them deal with elements that dont exist in MCU.
Discovering Captain Americas secret identity isnt really hard here.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on September 26, 2015, 05:37:04 PM
Quote from: Spade on September 26, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
I guess the story will be completely original,since the stories from Alias are pretty much unadaptable  in this setting.

As David Tennant is playing the Purple Man, I think it's pretty clear that at least part of the story is being adapted directly from the comics.  For those interested:
Spoiler
Jessica Jones first tried to be a classic superhero, but the Purple man used his abilities to mind control her, and make her attack the Avengers.  The reaction to being mind controlled and the beatdown by the Avengers is largely why she gave up superheroing to become a detective, and why she has some issues.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2015, 05:53:16 PM
They've already said the story will revolve around that basically, and it looks like there will be lots of flashbacks to her superheroing days.  David Tennant's also playing the Purple Man and I can't imagine that not being good.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 26, 2015, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2015, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 26, 2015, 04:46:20 PM
I know nothing about the character.  The one I'm really excited about is the Heroes for Hire one.

There isn't a Heroes for Hire show.  There are separate Luke Cage and Iron Fist shows.  Or maybe you mean The Defenders?

Hmm, really?  I thought they were in a show together.  Ahh well, maybe they'll work up to a team-up.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2015, 07:53:22 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 26, 2015, 07:05:38 PM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 26, 2015, 04:57:28 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on September 26, 2015, 04:46:20 PM
I know nothing about the character.  The one I'm really excited about is the Heroes for Hire one.

There isn't a Heroes for Hire show.  There are separate Luke Cage and Iron Fist shows.  Or maybe you mean The Defenders?

Hmm, really?  I thought they were in a show together.  Ahh well, maybe they'll work up to a team-up.

They are.  The Defenders with all four of the Netfilx heroes.

Luke Cage will also appear in Jessica Jones.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 26, 2015, 07:55:19 PM
Ahh, I see.  I thought that the Defenders would be more like the comic team.  Ahh well, thanks for the clarification. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on September 26, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
Quote from: Talavar on September 26, 2015, 05:37:04 PM
Quote from: Spade on September 26, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
I guess the story will be completely original,since the stories from Alias are pretty much unadaptable  in this setting.

As David Tennant is playing the Purple Man, I think it's pretty clear that at least part of the story is being adapted directly from the comics.  For those interested:
Spoiler
Jessica Jones first tried to be a classic superhero, but the Purple man used his abilities to mind control her, and make her attack the Avengers.  The reaction to being mind controlled and the beatdown by the Avengers is largely why she gave up superheroing to become a detective, and why she has some issues.

That actually sounds quite interesting... as a premise.  I doubt they'll follow that exactly, but as a basis, it's an interesting angle.  Wonder where they'll go with it and how much Movie-verse will be integrated.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on September 27, 2015, 04:31:58 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on September 26, 2015, 09:44:27 PM
Quote from: Talavar on September 26, 2015, 05:37:04 PM
Quote from: Spade on September 26, 2015, 05:06:48 PM
I guess the story will be completely original,since the stories from Alias are pretty much unadaptable  in this setting.

As David Tennant is playing the Purple Man, I think it's pretty clear that at least part of the story is being adapted directly from the comics.  For those interested:
Spoiler
Jessica Jones first tried to be a classic superhero, but the Purple man used his abilities to mind control her, and make her attack the Avengers.  The reaction to being mind controlled and the beatdown by the Avengers is largely why she gave up superheroing to become a detective, and why she has some issues.

That actually sounds quite interesting... as a premise.  I doubt they'll follow that exactly, but as a basis, it's an interesting angle.  Wonder where they'll go with it and how much Movie-verse will be integrated.

Me as well.  The first Jessica Jones story arc ties in with both Daredevil, Luke Cage, Captain (then Ms) Marvel and Captain America (all of whom are fair game potentially), but it also revolves around Cap having a secret identity, which in the MCU, he's never had.  It'll be interesting to see what they do.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 27, 2015, 05:15:39 AM
I dont think they can retcon her into Avengers in this case.I also think they will focus on the Purple storyline,which is the best one IMO.
Offtopic: Who owns movie rights to Marvel UK characters?I think Fox because of Excalibur,but Im not so sure.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 27, 2015, 12:08:08 PM
Marvel should still own all of those.  The movie deals all specified that Marvel get the rights back if no movies were made and since none were, Marvel would have the rights back by now even if they had ever sold them.  Only Mutant or F4 related character should be exceptions.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on September 27, 2015, 03:16:12 PM
Quote from: Spade on September 27, 2015, 05:15:39 AM
I dont think they can retcon her into Avengers in this case.I also think they will focus on the Purple storyline,which is the best one IMO.
Offtopic: Who owns movie rights to Marvel UK characters?I think Fox because of Excalibur,but Im not so sure.

What do you mean, 'retcon her into Avengers?'
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 27, 2015, 04:07:10 PM
Her background doesn't have her joining the Avengers as her backstory, but getting into a fight with them.  Which would fit the timeline perfectly well here, although I still suspect they won't do it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on September 27, 2015, 05:17:17 PM
Ok,I read Alias a long time ago so the details are a bit foggy.But I still think the Avengers angle will be hard to work in.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on September 27, 2015, 08:26:12 PM
Yeah, I don't think they'll have the Avengers, but they're definitely having Luke Cage and Purple Man, and I could reasonably see them having Daredevil as well (though they may hold off on that for the time being).
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on September 28, 2015, 07:59:07 AM
I'm not too concerned about it's story ties to the original comics. I don't think we're going to get an episode-by-episode recreation of the comic, far more likely it'll be comparable to the rest of the MCU where the actual story itself is rather different but characters and plot points will carry over (Winter Soldier is a good example of this).
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 06, 2015, 08:55:14 PM
Latest teaser.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=49&v=3gax3tMYU4I
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 08, 2015, 09:25:15 PM
Another one featuring the Purple Man.  It's just the right level of creepy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=47&v=Wi2hbejO75s
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on October 08, 2015, 11:13:26 PM
I really can't wait for this show.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 14, 2015, 10:08:03 PM
Rumor has it that these shows may be joined by a Punisher series, should his appearance in Daredevil turn out well, and that Moon Night is being prepared for the same treatment.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 23, 2015, 02:44:26 PM
https://youtu.be/nWHUjuJ8zxE

This looks really good.  Dark.  Twisted.  Pretty gripping trailer with a kind of villain you can't just go beat up.  I always said Kyrsten Ritter is just an odd looking duck, but here, she looks so natural in the element.  NOW, I'm looking forward to it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 03, 2015, 02:09:06 AM
There's rumors that the Iron Fist series may already be canceled and his spot in the Defenders replaced with Punisher.  This is reportedly because his magical origins don't fit well with the street level heroics of the others.  If true, he may get a Netflix exclusive movie instead.

In any case if he is still going to get a series ahead of the Defender, we should be hearing of it soon anyway.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on November 03, 2015, 03:27:51 AM
I really, really, REALLY hope that rumor is just a load of bupkis.

I want my Immortal Weapons, dang it! :ph34r:
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on November 09, 2015, 06:36:43 PM
http://mcuexchange.com/thunderbolts-netflix-show/ (http://mcuexchange.com/thunderbolts-netflix-show/)
There was also an old rumor Netflix got their hands on Thunderbolts,but I really hope thats not true.Dont let Netflix screw up Thunderbolts.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on November 09, 2015, 07:04:51 PM
Quote from: Spade on November 09, 2015, 06:36:43 PM
http://mcuexchange.com/thunderbolts-netflix-show/ (http://mcuexchange.com/thunderbolts-netflix-show/)
There was also an old rumor Netflix got their hands on Thunderbolts,but I really hope thats not true.Dont let Netflix screw up Thunderbolts.

There are also rumors that the Thunderbolts may be on Agents of SHIELD.  No matter what, I wouldn't be surprise if the Thunderbolts are introduce into the MCU
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on November 10, 2015, 05:40:24 AM
Or maybe even in Civil War.Im guessing maybe after Infinity War.Or phase 5.Teams 20th anniversary is approaching;Marvel will mark that in some way.
BTW do we know what the 4 mysterious movies were?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 11, 2015, 03:06:14 AM
Final trailer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=156&v=s3UYWK2jeX0
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on November 20, 2015, 06:16:10 PM
Ok,some new unconfirmed info.Netflix also has phases,so after phase 1(Defenders),there is a good chance phase 2 will be Thunderbolts.Bad news its probably Anti-hero All-stars variant(Red Hulk,Punisher,Elektra etc).I guess thats something too.Or its gonna be just one miniseries about the Civil War cape-buster Thunderbolts.Just guessing about that one.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 21, 2015, 07:50:27 AM
I'm through the first few episodes of JESSICA JONES and these guys, these showrunners do not disappoing!  Nor are they holding anything back.

Spoiler
Just mildly, I think Kyrsten Ritter was purposely casted for this role, which as I said before made me question what they were doing because I never thought she had "the look" of what I would think for the role.  Now seeing her live, I'm thinking she was right for what they were looking for.  They weren't looking for Wonder Woman or some super model to play the role, which is why Ritter works so well.  Particularly she works well with Mike Coulter.  Save for the blue and yellow spandex and tiara, he's what I would have pctured when I thought about Luke Cage on screen.  Seeing the two of them together is a site.  To say the least(this is much more R-rated than Daredevil).  Purple Man is being handled well and the pacing is right so far.  I can't wait to see more.  Can't wait to see the rest of the series.  Can't wait to see Luke Cage.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on November 21, 2015, 12:18:35 PM
I have pretty much the same complains like with Daredevil.The pacing is horrible.You might as well watch the grass grow.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on November 21, 2015, 03:52:53 PM
I'm really enjoying this.  Krysten Ritter is great, and David Tennant is creepy as hell.  For the more delicately minded though, this is definitely the most R-rated Marvel show or movie yet, with more swearing and sex in the first couple of episodes than in the rest of the MCU combined.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on November 21, 2015, 07:23:04 PM
Quote from: Talavar on November 21, 2015, 03:52:53 PM
I'm really enjoying this.  Krysten Ritter is great, and David Tennant is creepy as hell.  For the more delicately minded though, this is definitely the most R-rated Marvel show or movie yet, with more swearing and sex in the first couple of episodes than in the rest of the MCU combined.

If only Cap was there to remind them of their language!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on November 22, 2015, 03:18:39 AM
Quote from: Spade on November 21, 2015, 12:18:35 PM
I have pretty much the same complains like with Daredevil.The pacing is horrible.You might as well watch the grass grow.

No offense, but are we watching the same show? The pacing seems pretty darn brisk to me. If we were really  watching the grass grow, Jessica wouldn't even start going after Kilgrave until Episode 5 or so.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 22, 2015, 03:22:51 AM
Daredevil was pretty much at my limits of adult content, so I'll pass on this one.  Glad others are enjoying it though.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on November 22, 2015, 04:15:37 AM
Just finish watching the whole season and it was pretty good.  Not a lot of action as Daredevil, but the drama level was pretty high.  I wouldn't mine a season two, or they have Jessica guest star in Luke Cage, either way I wouldn't mid seeing more Jessica Jones.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on November 22, 2015, 07:44:42 PM
There's clearly season 2 setup in season 1, which I won't go into because spoilers and I don't feel like messing with tags on mobile.

However, as to the claims that it has more mature content... I would argue that point, actually. Jessica Jones isn't NEARLY as violent as Daredevil was, where the sound and visuals really punctuated every bone breaking, not to mention extended and brutal torture scenes. Jessica Jones has a bit of violence, but its mostly in the superheroes punching each other kind of way. The violence often genuinely disturbed me in Daredevil, but I never felt that with JJ.

Really, I think the difference with JJ is the big s-word. There are multiple scenes of consentual relations, some of which are pretty graphic(not quite to the level of... adult only content). That said, despite the villain being a rapist, defile itself is never directly shown, and what stuff is present is hardly worse than what I've seen in the few episodes of GoT I've watched. I think it's more where your sensitivity lies, honestly.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 22, 2015, 08:53:01 PM
Honestly, as creepy as this may sound, I did not think a lot of the sexual content egregious.  Felt a lot of it was telling the story.  It was about the connection Luke and Jessica made and how they were kindred spirits testing their limits so to speak.  At least in my opinion.  Was it excessive?  Maybe, but I didn't mind so much and it didn't break my own personal discomfort.  I didn't see it as sex just to be sexual.  Saw it telling a story.

Spoiler
That said, I just finished the series last night myself and overall, it was good.  Better than Daredevil?  Not sure I can say, but it definitely kept me entertained.  It really gave me the feel of one of those "crime-caper/Private eye" serials from back in the day.  Just with superpowers.  The chemistry between Ritter and Colter was perfect.  If they dumped Iron Fist, I wouldn't mind seeing more Jessica Jones and Luke Cage.  Colter himself was a pretty amazing find.  He will EASILY find more work in Hollywood now.  Ritter herself played the hell out of this role.  She went on record to say this was the kind of role she was waiting to play her whole life and she knocked it out of the park.  The one thing this series has the Daredevil lacked was the humor.  There was lots of it.  The flashback scene with Trish and Jessica discussing her superhero career was HILARIOUS. Trying to make Kilgrave be a hero was great.  Speaking of, Tennant himself was wonderful.  Like you can see certain people in a particular role and forget who they are in real life or them as some other character.  I definitely got that feeling from both Tennant and Ritter.

On the negative side, I do have to say, even though I expect them to, they pretty much dumped the entire "Purple Man" persona.  I thought that they'd use more purple camera filters when he's using his powers or when he expanded them it'd turn his skin a purple-esque shade(not unprecedented).  Even when they expanded his powers, I can't imagine what it did.  He already seemed to be able to control a large mass of people before.  Still wasn't able to control Jessica.  Additionally, I'm not sure how I feel about them trying to explaining it off as a virus or how they casually dropped in a 12 hour window for the effect to be gone.  Lastly, the ending of the series itself seemed a little anti-climatic to me.  Overall still, wasn't overly disappointed at all.  The pacing was good.  The acting was terrific.  And it was overall an entertaining show.

I do have one question though.  Whenever someone saw one of these guys using their powers and saying "you're one of them", was this a nod to Inhumans from Agents of SHIELD?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on November 22, 2015, 10:15:47 PM
There were a lot of nods to the rest of the MCU:

Spoiler
The "you're one of them" could be a reference to Agents of Shield and being an Inhuman.
The cop and the ICH - The pills were red, white, and blue.  That was a nod to Cap and the whole Super Solider program
Night Nurse - N'uff said
I think one of my favorite parts was when they had the Jewel costume.  That was fun to see.
and is it me or that Patsy Walker theme song was kinda catchy?  I caught myself singing it a few times.....
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 23, 2015, 02:43:11 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on November 22, 2015, 10:15:47 PM
There were a lot of nods to the rest of the MCU:

Spoiler
The "you're one of them" could be a reference to Agents of Shield and being an Inhuman.
The cop and the ICH - The pills were red, white, and blue.  That was a nod to Cap and the whole Super Solider program
Night Nurse - N'uff said
I think one of my favorite parts was when they had the Jewel costume.  That was fun to see.
and is it me or that Patsy Walker theme song was kinda catchy?  I caught myself singing it a few times.....

BTW, I didn't know it until a friend told me earlier...

Spoiler
Simpson is Nuke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuke_(Marvel_Comics)

Didn't know much about the character and I knew there had to be something behind the healing and pill popping and insistence in the character, but it fits... except for the obvious lack of a tattoo.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on November 23, 2015, 02:53:45 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on November 23, 2015, 02:43:11 AMBTW, I didn't know it until a friend told me earlier...

Spoiler
Simpson is Nuke.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuke_(Marvel_Comics)

Didn't know much about the character and I knew there had to be something behind the healing and pill popping and insistence in the character, but it fits... except for the obvious lack of a tattoo.

Spoiler
It's really funny that he is Nuke, seeing how my friends and I were all commenting on how he's the "Discount Captain America" and we were all calling him "USAgent", but after a while, it hit me. He's mother-fraggin' Nuke! How funny :lol:

As for the "nod to the Inhumans" thing, I don't think so. I haven't watched Agents of SHIELD (like, at all), but it doesn't seem like the Inhumans are well known to the general public (I could be wrong, though :P). It felt like it was referencing the Avengers, seeing how every other episode mentions "the Big Green Guy" (I wonder who that could be. hmmmmm.... :P)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on November 23, 2015, 03:15:40 AM
Quote from: Tomato on November 22, 2015, 07:44:42 PM
There's clearly season 2 setup in season 1, which I won't go into because spoilers and I don't feel like messing with tags on mobile.

However, as to the claims that it has more mature content... I would argue that point, actually. Jessica Jones isn't NEARLY as violent as Daredevil was, where the sound and visuals really punctuated every bone breaking, not to mention extended and brutal torture scenes. Jessica Jones has a bit of violence, but its mostly in the superheroes punching each other kind of way. The violence often genuinely disturbed me in Daredevil, but I never felt that with JJ.

Really, I think the difference with JJ is the big s-word. There are multiple scenes of consentual relations, some of which are pretty graphic(not quite to the level of... adult only content). That said, despite the villain being a rapist, defile itself is never directly shown, and what stuff is present is hardly worse than what I've seen in the few episodes of GoT I've watched. I think it's more where your sensitivity lies, honestly.

I would agree with this.  The language and sexy-times are much more prevalent than other MCU productions, but the violence is nowhere near Daredevil.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 23, 2015, 03:25:02 AM
Quote from: spydermann93 on November 23, 2015, 02:53:45 AM

Spoiler

As for the "nod to the Inhumans" thing, I don't think so. I haven't watched Agents of SHIELD (like, at all), but it doesn't seem like the Inhumans are well known to the general public (I could be wrong, though :P). It felt like it was referencing the Avengers, seeing how every other episode mentions "the Big Green Guy" (I wonder who that could be. hmmmmm.... :P)

Actually in the current season, the outbreak of "alien terrorists" as the public assumes them to be is public knowledge with the President addressing the nation about it.  The public doesn't understand exactly what an Inhuman is, but the fact that they exist and are popping up everywhere is known.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 07, 2015, 08:59:42 PM
Official Iron Fist synopsis out, confirming that Iron Fist is still a go.

http://screenrant.com/iron-first-netflix-series-synopsis-showrunner/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on December 07, 2015, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 22, 2015, 03:22:51 AM
Daredevil was pretty much at my limits of adult content, so I'll pass on this one.  Glad others are enjoying it though.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

Glad to hear IF is still in the offing.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Midnite on January 08, 2016, 05:45:49 PM
Daredevil Season 2 Teaser (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXyW4Cuwphg)


Banner
Spoiler
(http://cdn1-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/marvels-daredevil/poster-chapel-1.jpg)

Poster
Spoiler
(http://cdn2-www.superherohype.com/assets/uploads/gallery/marvels-daredevil/daredevilposter.jpg)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BWPS on January 08, 2016, 06:35:53 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 07, 2015, 11:28:49 PM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 22, 2015, 03:22:51 AM
Daredevil was pretty much at my limits of adult content, so I'll pass on this one.  Glad others are enjoying it though.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly.

Glad to hear IF is still in the offing.

Oh if you aren't into adult content you're not going to like what he uses that fist for.  ;)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on January 08, 2016, 09:00:54 PM
Be nice BWPS.

Seriously though, I think the "Adultness" of Jessica Jones is being way overplayed. It's actually really solid, and it's actually won over some of my non-comic friends to the dark side of Marvel.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on January 09, 2016, 01:10:43 AM
Quote from: Tomato on January 08, 2016, 09:00:54 PM
Be nice BWPS.

Seriously though, I think the "Adultness" of Jessica Jones is being way overplayed. It's actually really solid, and it's actually won over some of my non-comic friends to the dark side of Marvel.

Very much agreed.  There's sex scenes but no nudity, some swearing -but less than most R rated movies- and, yes violence, but I don't think anything as graphic as...
Spoiler
Kingpin smooshing that Russian's head in the door of his car.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 09, 2016, 05:24:24 AM
Honestly the talks about sex scenes made it talk about something more graphic than it sounds like it actually is.  Maybe it might be something I eventually check out.  But not yet, as my Netflix account is not active.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on January 09, 2016, 08:15:03 PM
Going to go into some detail for those who are worried about the dreaded scenes.

Spoiler
As Shogunn pointed out, the sex scenes that are present serve to advance the story. The main ones people are referring to are two major scenes with Jessica and Luke (there are others, but not nearly as long nor as in-your-face). The first is to establish Jessica's bizarre relationship with Luke, and to showcase her self loathing the day after. The reason for this is plot driven and I won't spoil it, but while I would have preferred it cut down, the dialogue is relevant to her relationship with Luke.

The second, and much more "in your face" scene is later on in the show, after Luke and Jessica realize they both have powers. I can understand where it would be a little much for some people, but I would argue it's even more important. It's the first time Jessica's been with someone she can truly go all out with. Luke is the first person she's known to have powers like her that isn't... well, an evil rapist jerkwad. Their emotional connection is central to the series, so while I think the scene drags on a bit long, it's a powerful moment in their relationship and the scene does have a reasonably funny joke.

And again, while there is no question what they're doing, there's no nudity or anything like you'd get with something like Game of Thrones. It's only jarring when set up against the other MCU properties.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 16, 2016, 07:54:27 PM
We can now add 1 more Netflix Marvel show to the list--Punisher.

Marvel and Netflix are both apparently REALLY please with his portrayal in Daredevil Season 2 and have started developing a spin off.

http://screenrant.com/netflix-punisher-spinoff-daredevil/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on January 16, 2016, 11:34:48 PM
Really wish he had a better haircut!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on January 17, 2016, 07:00:07 AM
Just here for Godzilla.Or Punisher in this case.Dont screw this up Netflix!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on February 15, 2016, 06:17:48 PM
Daredevil, Season 2 trailer

Part 1: https://youtu.be/m5_A0Wx0jU4
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 25, 2016, 10:43:24 PM
New Daredevil trailer featuring Elektra and the Hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=132&v=7ARFooYjziU
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on February 26, 2016, 02:03:11 AM
Also, they've thrown some cold water on the Punisher getting a show talk http://io9.gizmodo.com/marvel-says-it-has-no-plans-for-a-punisher-netflix-show-1760949523 (http://io9.gizmodo.com/marvel-says-it-has-no-plans-for-a-punisher-netflix-show-1760949523), and Iron Fist has been cast http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/25/finn-jones-iron-fist (http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/25/finn-jones-iron-fist)

Casting Iron Fist was always fraught - cast a white guy, as Danny Rand has been in the comics, and it can be an example of the Mighty Whitey trope; cast an Asian actor and Marvel's first headlining Asian hero would be one with Kung Fu power. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on February 26, 2016, 06:54:03 PM
Its Ser Loras.Imagine all the memes.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on February 26, 2016, 09:35:05 PM
I don't know the fellow, but I'm glad they didn't try to switch the race of the character.  I could definitely get into a superhero kung-fu series.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on February 27, 2016, 06:27:59 AM
The whole point is that Danny Rand is an outsider who embraces a cultural heritage not his own.So some changes just wouldnt work in this case.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BWPS on February 27, 2016, 06:28:52 AM
I wish they'd made him a Latin American immigrant, they're absolutely underrepresented in both comic books and kung fu mastery.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 05, 2016, 05:38:09 AM
They are now apparently casting for Shang-Chi, who will also appear in Iron Fist.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 05, 2016, 01:15:47 PM
I could totally get into this.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: GhostMachine on March 07, 2016, 06:02:16 PM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 05, 2016, 05:38:09 AM
They are now apparently casting for Shang-Chi, who will also appear in Iron Fist.

Since its totally wrong to cast a character the right race...well, according to a few people...I vote they make him a black rapper, with Shang-Chi being his stage name.  <_<
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on March 07, 2016, 06:39:58 PM
Meh, even though I'm normally all for changes to race for characters if doing so doesn't really impact the story... I don't really see the problem people have with casting a white dude in this case. Yes, having yet ANOTHER white dude out there when people are really pushing Marvel (and hollywood in general) to diversify their casts with more women and minorities is annoying (and I'm admittedly one of those people), but I think it would have been much WORSE if they'd done an Asian actor... on the one hand, you'd have people arguing that part of Rand's origin is as the outsider to a foreign culture (and admittedly you'd also have people whining that they're just making changes to diversify and generally being racist), and on the other you're arguably MORE racist for casting your first major Asian role (I know I know, Volstagg) as the MARTIAL ARTIST SUPERHERO. There really was no good answer here, and I'd argue that Marvel took the less racist option by keeping Iron Fist non-asian but still taking the opportunity to introduce other Asian characters that wouldn't have as much negative stigma surrounding them. It's the better answer in a no-win scenario.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 07, 2016, 06:46:26 PM
Imagine if they made Luke Cage or Black Panther white.That wouldnt make any sense,right?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: GhostMachine on March 07, 2016, 07:30:35 PM
When I heard people complaining about Iron Fist being write, my response was pretty much "He's been white since the beginning, so why get up in arms about it on a tv show, you dumb *Samuel L. Jackson's favorite word*s?"

Seriously, the people upset about it are a bunch of idiots. Especially those thinking he should be Asian because its a martial arts character. Typecasting/stereotyping much?

Frankly, they could make him just about any race except an Asian one without a problem, because making him Asian messes with the backstory too much: a non-Asian embracing a mystical, Asian culture.




Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 07, 2016, 08:10:17 PM
Dude that's not even necessary.  Why would you even think that?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on March 07, 2016, 09:51:44 PM
Guys, this is all just noobs talking trash.  Remember when they cast Heath Ledger as Joker?  Or Idris Elba as Heimdall?  They don't know what to expect so they are looking for something to talk about.  Funny thing is, this is the first time I heard any negativity towards a Netflix/ Marvel show.  Once Daredevil comes out, all of this BS will pass.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 08, 2016, 11:24:56 AM
It all comes down to a simple question everyone is asking these days-If they want new heroes,why dont they invent new heroes?They are the house of ideas,right?Or alternatively why not give more room to some neglected heroes?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BWPS on March 08, 2016, 02:48:26 PM
Is having an Asian superhero who does martial arts offensive? I mean given we're talking about casting for a show about martial arts. I think it's similar to the way that it's a problem that most black kids in most shows are defined by playing sports and that's messed up, but if you make a movie about sports and you cast black actors, that's not really the same problem. Like minorities should definitely get roles that aren't stereotypical but that doesn't mean they should never get the roles that are stereotypical just to subvert the stereotype does it? I'm not a minority but I like movies where Asians are good at martial arts a lot and I don't think they're bad.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on March 08, 2016, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: GhostMachine on March 07, 2016, 07:30:35 PM
When I heard people complaining about Iron Fist being write, my response was pretty much "He's been white since the beginning, so why get up in arms about it on a tv show, you dumb *Samuel L. Jackson's favorite word*s?"

Seriously, the people upset about it are a bunch of idiots. Especially those thinking he should be Asian because its a martial arts character. Typecasting/stereotyping much?

Frankly, they could make him just about any race except an Asian one without a problem, because making him Asian messes with the backstory too much: a non-Asian embracing a mystical, Asian culture.

Why get upset about a TV show?  Because it's much higher profile than a C-list comic book, and the character is another in the long history of the Mighty Whitey, where a white guy not only embraces another people's culture, but just happens to be better at it than them.  Making him Asian has problems of its own of course, as you say.  That's why I said casting him was fraught-it was a lose/lose situation for Marvel.

Quote from: BWPS on March 08, 2016, 02:48:26 PM
Is having an Asian superhero who does martial arts offensive? I mean given we're talking about casting for a show about martial arts. I think it's similar to the way that it's a problem that most black kids in most shows are defined by playing sports and that's messed up, but if you make a movie about sports and you cast black actors, that's not really the same problem. Like minorities should definitely get roles that aren't stereotypical but that doesn't mean they should never get the roles that are stereotypical just to subvert the stereotype does it? I'm not a minority but I like movies where Asians are good at martial arts a lot and I don't think they're bad.

It's a little offensive when it's Marvel's first/only headlining Asian character.  If they had a couple of others out there whose power wasn't martial arts, it would go down better.

Quote from: Spade on March 08, 2016, 11:24:56 AM
It all comes down to a simple question everyone is asking these days-If they want new heroes,why dont they invent new heroes?They are the house of ideas,right?Or alternatively why not give more room to some neglected heroes?

They tried it.  Both Marvel and DC created whole waves of new characters in the 70s, 80s and 90s who were more multi-racial and multiethnic, and it didn't really work out any of those times (with some exceptions, like among the X-men).  New characters are always chancy whether they'll catch on, especially in comics where they are competing with long established favourites, and when the creators were still almost entirely white (and male) a lot of those characters ended up as shallow stereotypes.  Reworking character identities, or changing the person behind the mask in a legacy character sort of situation is the current attempt to diversify superheroes.

Quote from: Spade on March 07, 2016, 06:46:26 PM
Imagine if they made Luke Cage or Black Panther white.That wouldnt make any sense,right?

Because that would be exactly the same!  Remember when racism ended and racial equality achieved?  I must have missed it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 08, 2016, 03:57:27 PM
Thats my point exactly.
I'm pretty sure that they can all do better then back in the 90's.Real trouble wasn't that heroes were diverse,problem was that they were 90's superheroes.Bloodlines anyone?
But if Valiant and (to a degree) Image can introduce new characters,nothing really stops Marvel.For example,everyone liked Divinity,and hes black and Russian.Just saying.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 08, 2016, 11:00:32 PM
Punisher and Elekra costumes revealed.

http://screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/daredevil-season-2-punisher-elektra-costumes.jpeg
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 09, 2016, 12:16:43 AM
Punisher looks good, Elektra looks like a Mortal Kombat character, about which I have no strong opinions.

On the character race thing, I think my position is pretty well known.  Characters should be who they are.  If you don't want a character of a certain persuasion, don't put them on the screen.  Of course, Marvel is in something of a no-win position with Iron Fist, but maybe having Shang-Chi in the show will help them win and lose at the same time.  For the record, though, it isn't like we're lacking of entertainment starring Asian martial-artists.  I could totally get into a show that is heavily martial arts, 70s style kung fu and the like.  I would watch the HECK out of that.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 09, 2016, 01:43:24 AM
Quote from: Tomato on March 07, 2016, 06:39:58 PM
and on the other you're arguably MORE racist for casting your first major Asian role (I know I know, Volstagg) as the MARTIAL ARTIST SUPERHERO.

I know I'm nitpicking, but it was actually Hogun, not Volstagg, who was cast with an Asian actor.

Personally, I think having Shang Chi in the show really smooths over the complaints to a degree, both because we'll have an authentic Asian martial artist character from the comics (even if he comes off as a bit of a stereotype as such), but also because he is portrayed well and becomes popular he could potentially get his own spin-off.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 09, 2016, 08:09:08 AM
Punisher,Daredevil and Mileena from Mortal Kombat?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 09, 2016, 08:54:11 PM
Promo, featuring the costumes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=30&v=YO5hHaJclzY
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 12, 2016, 12:05:33 AM
Luke Cage will be released in September.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 14, 2016, 07:48:09 PM
Hey quick question...

I'm rewatching Season 1 of Daredevil and I'm watching Episode 12 and notice the scene where Fisk is looking at Wesley's phone.  In it two of his incoming calls are from a "JF" and a "MKJ".  Of course he also has calls from "WF", which would be "Wilson Fisk", but I'm wondering who could those other two callers be?  Easter eggs?  Anyone have any idea who might they be?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 18, 2016, 04:20:49 PM
Just saw the first 3 episodes of season 2.Its okay.Well,points for recreating a scene from MK Punisher.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 18, 2016, 09:25:03 PM
Quote from: Spade on March 18, 2016, 04:20:49 PM
Just saw the first 3 episodes of season 2.Its okay.Well,points for recreating a scene from MK Punisher.

Yeah I got through the first 3 last night.  I saw that was what they were doing before.  The scene's different.  Would have apprciated it being much similar.  MK's tension was ratched up far more than this.  Loved the back and forth between the two though.

Really loved Foggy and Matt's first scene too.  And Matt's explanation of why he can't quit.

A few complaints on how they're handling the Punisher, but those might be petty.  Overall, I'm good with it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 18, 2016, 11:35:33 PM
A bit of an easter egg is attached...

Spoiler
a teaser for Luke Cage is at the end:

https://www.facebook.com/MarvelCinematicUniverse/videos/1326108097405759/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 21, 2016, 02:47:32 AM
Well, we're three episodes in, and it's still excellent.  I love that they're including the Punisher.  That's a very natural step, but I really don't care for his portrayal.  He's too crazy.  There's nothing particularly compelling about his portrayal, and the Punisher should really be compelling.

That said, the central dilemma is an interesting one, and I'm loving Foggy and Karen.  That fight in the stairwell was amazing.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on March 21, 2016, 03:33:32 AM
Finished the series last night (I know, no life and what-not)

I'll try and not to reveal too much in terms of shocking twists and the likes

Spoiler
A few things:

1) I did not care for Elektra, like, at all. She was spoiled, criminal (and took pleasure from it), and she was WAAAAY too annoying, constantly butting into everything.  When she *gasp* died, I didn't really feel anything for her.  I felt more for Matt who was for some reason saddened by her "shocking" demise, despite...

2) The awkward romance between Daredevil and Elektra.  They kept the fact that they met in college, but they did away with Elektra's dad being killed in a fight between Daredevil and some goons. In fact, her "dad" is actually her adoptive father in this series, which I thought was kind of interesting.

Anyways, Matt and Elektra seemed to have something between each other, but I guess it was my dislike for her that kind of blinded me to anything genuine at all.  I get that she had this "I'm a killer" type thing going on and Daredevil seems to always be on the edge, but given his resolute and firm attitude during his debate with the Punisher, I say that can't quite be the real reason.

He keeps telling Elektra that he's "moved on" and that he wants nothing to do with her, but somehow, she keeps roping him.  One time, he's with Foggy and Karen at Metro General about to take the case of a lifetime, and guess what? Elektra sends a limo to him, Matt's like "While, I can't, buuuut..." and hops into the limo! Aggh! Stupid!

3) Bernthal was FANTASTIC as the Punisher.  That graveyard scene was really moving.  Actually made me shed a tear for him, and I loved it.  All of his fighting scenes, especially against Daredevil, were fantastic.  I did appreciate his unyielding nature, and while it's strange that I don't agree with how he does things, there is some sort of "heck yeah!" that comes from me when he kills terrible people.

4) The Hand were great! They kicked butt, they lived up to the fact that they were highly-trained ninja assassins, and they really knew how to give Daredevil and company a hard time.

Spoiler
Also, Nobu's back!!

This next one is kinda big:

Spoiler
Kingpin is back, and just as great as ever!!! Willing to literally throw his weight around to get what he wants, he is still one scary man that you don't want to mess with.

When Matt Murdock (in his attorney role) tried to threaten Fisk by making it impossible for Vanessa to come back to the USA, ooooh boy, did that not go well for him! Kingpin is great and I can't wait to see more!

5) Stick is still a d***, as usual, but you can still tell he cares about his students, albeit in a very distant way, lol.

6) Karen and Foggy are fantastic in this! I love 'em both.  Karen has real tenacity and won't back down from getting the truth out to everybody and doing what's right, risking her own life many, MANY times and still being bad***.  Foggy is still his hilarious self and shows why it's Nelson AND Murdock by bringing his Lawyering Skills to the court and the streets.  He's not fearless, but man, does he have a courage of steel.  I want more of 'em!

7) Matt seems to have his priorities messed up.  He could easily do his lawyering AND his hero business, but it seems that he isn't very willing to try to do both as much as he tried in Season 1.  Yeah, I get that in the cases that he gets beaten to near death that he will have a hard time waking up in the morning, but maaan, he makes such little effort compared to the previous season.  There were a few cases where he could have just stayed and waited to handle Daredevil situations, but noooo, the power of boners is stronger (see number 2).

8) Some neat cameos showed up, like Hoggarth and Madame Gao, as well as some name drops like Jessica Jones and some allusions, like Claire mentioning Luke Cage (not by name).  Neat little references. Also, they dropped when Nelson said "It's like a warzone" in regards to the Punisher killings, I chuckled.

Overall, I liked Season 1 better, but Season 2 is definitely worth the watch! 8/10 for me!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Tomato on March 21, 2016, 05:33:31 AM
Give it time Benton. They had a balance to walk with the Punisher, because he had to be the primary antagonist of the early part of the season, while at the same time setting him up as sympathetic. He's a lot more compelling in later episodes. I'm not a huge Punisher person, but I loved the portrayal they went with here... he has moments where he's sympathetic and you almost feel for him, but they show time and again how unrepentant he is.

That said... I wasn't as happy with this season as I was with Season 1. It's still good stuff, but it's not really that cohesive... Season 1 and Jessica Jones both had very tight storylines, where the finale was built up throughout the entire season. Here, I feel like the season doesn't truly start until roughly 5 episodes in, and the final episode feels more like the conclusion of a mini-arc (like the russians in season 1 or Will's arc in JJ), rather than something built up all season.

And don't misunderstand: I do like each episode of this season, and the whole thing does feel more like a comic book than either of the other Netflix shows. But the downside to that is that the finale falls kind of flat, and results in a season that didn't live up to all the stuff that they set up. Spoilers below for those who have not seen the whole season.

Spoiler
OMG that Iron Fist cameo in the last episode, Amirite? OMG, I can't believe they made him asian after all! I can't believe how he and Luke Cage helped take out the Punisher!

But no, SERIOUSLY, I am not going to bother double spoiling this for people who haven't seen the whole season. So if you don't want to be spoiled, STOP READING HERE.

Anyway, back to my feelings on the season... I feel like the biggest issue was that they were trying to shoehorn everything into this season, and the whole thing suffers as a result. The Punisher stuff, while interesting in the moment, really has no place in this season other than to open the door for his own series... which is fine, but there are 4 episodes dedicated JUST to the Punisher before the arc of the series even starts. You could cut out his subplot from the series entirely, and the only thing of value the series would lose is the whole mini arc with Punisher and Kingpin. Seriously, everything Matt contends with regarding his no-kill code is handled much more personally with his relationship to Elektra, and it would only take some minor tweaks to place her in the role as the second vigilante.

Additionally, the whole "Hand" arc just felt a bit flat. The Black Sky thing felt like a forced callback to Season 1, and a cheap way to explain Elektra's desire to kill. It's also frustrating that Punisher is given so much screen time early on, only to have his only contribution to the main arc of the series be to shoot a few ninjas out of Matt's way at the end of the fight. And what's most frustrating is, the fix for this is so SIMPLE. Have Frank show up on the roof for the final fight, have him fight the ninja army with DD and Elektra, and then after Elektra dies, have Matt about to kill Nobu in revenge. Then, at the last second, have Frank shoot Nobu in the head, preventing Matt from crossing that line. It would tie back to his comments on the boat to DD about how it's a line you don't come back from, and give his character a bit of redemption that doesn't diminish the setup he'd been given.

That said, the series is still very good, despite my nitpicking. I really don't care for Punisher (I dislike the whole idea of him) but they did a good job of fleshing him out, while still acknowledging that he's not a good person.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on March 21, 2016, 01:26:52 PM
I'm not through the whole season yet, so I'm avoiding the spoiler tags (8 episodes in myself), but one thing I'm enjoying more in season two is the balance of the characters' storylines.  In season 1, we spend a lot of time with Karen and Ben Urich watching them try to figure out what we the audience, and Matt Murdock already know.  Season 2 has given Karen and Foggy more compelling things to do so far.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 21, 2016, 04:19:04 PM
My thoughts?  Well, I'm not the BIGGEST Daredevil fan... but I am a substantially huge Punisher fan.  And overall, I liked season 2, but there were parts that stood out as... annoying? I guess?

First bit about the Punisher.

Spoiler
Again, as a Punisher fan I am SICK and TIRED of Punisher origin stories. They all seemingly end up being revenge stories which effectively kill what the essence of who the Punisher is.  He's not the Avenger!  Or the Strike-Backer.  He's the PUNISHER.  He doesn't do what he does for revenge, to right a wrong that's been done to him and that was pretty much all he did this season right up to literally the last five minutes.  Which made his kill of the pervert porn shop guy really random.  He goes after the three groups that killed his fsmily, specifically but kills a pervert for.... what?

The Punisher is rather chaotic in his philosophy.  But he's extremely calculating.  The Punisher I know and think of, doesn't laugh.  Doesn't joke.  Doesn't really raise his voice.  He's like the Terminator.  He can't be bargained with, can't be reasoned with, doesn't feel remorse, pity or fear.  And here, they humanized him. They made him a dog lover and an Earth, Wind and Fire fan?  His world is dark and bleak.  Not hopeful.  He's not one to reminesce.  His mission is to punish people who commit crime and to do it without prejudice.  Hes focused on that.  Thats it.  While many people had problems with Dolph Lundren's Punisher, the way they potrayed him was right.  Just efficient and cold.  Here, they made it seem like he's a complete headcase.  And angry.  And the rooftop scene, while I enjoyed, it seemed too over the top and way too emotional.  At the same time I understood it.  The actors did a good job with it, but it's purposely suppose to be without emotion from the Punisher's view.  You kill me or I kill him.  That's all.

But JB did a good job with him and I'd much rather see a lot more of him outside of him just seeking revenge.  I did enjoy his prison time with the Kingpin.  That seemed classic Punisher(other than the fact that he wasn't just randomly targeting crime for a entire prison to fear him).  The entire trial was kinda silly.  I don't think it was at all necessary. Why did he plead Not Guilty again?  It just seemed like filler for the real meat of the season with the Hand and I expected the two story lines to cross and they really never did.  He just showed up at the end randomly.  Don't know why and was just a far away sniper at that.  Kinda lame.  I know this all seems really nitpicky and complaining,  but I did enjoy JB's performance and the characterization of how he acted.  And how he was initially characterized, with people thinking there was a military unit killing people and not just one man.  Made him seem more fierce.  Again, I'm just bothered by storits that make sense out of his world.  The reality of what Matt said to Foggy about not taking a night off IS why there's a Punisher.  While I guess it could be true for vigilantism in general, that's the Punisher.

Now in regard to the rest of the other stuff:

Spoiler
It was a really entertaining season.  There were some slow parts but over all, lots of action.  I really loved how they brought the Kingpin back(and actually referred to him AS the Kingpin too).  That was one thing about season one that bothered me was that for someone as powerful and rich as Wilson Fisk that controls so much he sure did get taken down cleanly.  The entire year and first half of this season I'm thinking to myself that "I'd like to think of course he's bought off judges or killed witnesses and can't be prosecuted they just don't show it or talk about it.  But they talked it through and even in season one they said it might take months to convict and he hasn't been convicted.

Elecktra, I didn't find as annoying as others did (even though I understand their complaints).  I did find it funny with all I was reading about Iron Fist being Asian and not, Elecktra was ACTUALLY played by an Asian actress.  Yeah half-asian, but I still spent at least 10 minutes during an episode googling "Greek models" and could barely square what I was seeing.  Elodie Yung did well though.  I suppose authentically coming across better than Jennifer Garner I suppose.  Stick was extremely entertaining.  Love the character.  Really d***ish in a "nobody's problems are really important but mine" sort of way.  I wish Clancy Brown's character was more Marvel-centric.  I thought the usage of the Dogs of Hell, who were also in Agents of SHIELD btw, seemed odd.  I'm an upstanding citizen and don't know that much about certain aspects of organized crime, but I never knew biker gangs that were heavy narcotic traffickers.  Additionally, I'm starting to dig their pulling all the season's together talking about heroes and vigilantism as a actual thing now.  Makes me look forward to seeing more.  Loved the crossovers and the reappearance, Gao, Nobu, Hogorth, Claire and of course the Kingpin.  Not to mention Turk and the actual Stiltman armor.

I do have to say, my last beef is with Daredevil himself:

Spoiler
More specifically how he's written.  Because all first season he seemed to be somewhere between "expert" and "proficient" at beating up random thugs.  Admittedly,  he might have been in a beginner stage so to speak or otherwise injured, but at times he would take a punch or would be grabbed.  And even there were quite a few westerners that were skilled enough at challenging him, now including the Punisher.  However, this season he takes on a ninja clan.  And outside of him adapting tactics from hearing swords to breathing, they seemed REALLY easy.  Ninjas.  Armed ninjas.  Like easier than the Dogs of Hell in Episode 3.  The inconsistency in his skill was bothersome.  I know he's good, but I would imagine ninjas who are expertly trained are able to put up more of a fight than some bikers.

Btw, the hallway scene with the gun I though was a clever nod to the "No more Mr. Nice Guy" cover.  Nice touches all around.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 21, 2016, 04:33:14 PM
Im at episode 8 right now,so something could change,but I have to agree with you about the Punisher.One case where too much characterization is a bad thing.
Spoiler
I guess the trial was meant to evoke Trial of the Punisher and a few other similar stories where he wanted to get arrested so he could gain access to someone.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 21, 2016, 04:43:40 PM
Quote from: Spade on March 21, 2016, 04:33:14 PM
Im at episode 8 right now,so something could change,but I have to agree with you about the Punisher.One case where too much characterization is a bad thing.
Spoiler
I guess the trial was meant to evoke Trial of the Punisher and a few other similar stories where he wanted to get arrested so he could gain access to someone.

I never really thought about that... now it makes a little more sense.... maybe.  I'll rewatch.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on March 22, 2016, 12:48:16 PM
I saw the rest of the season, and have to agree with some of what you all are saying. 
Spoiler
I think that the least successful portion of the show was the final quarter.  Nobu and the Hand are far less compelling than last season's Wilson Fisk, so watching Daredevil struggle against them as the pinnacle of the season was weaker than much of what came before, and the wrap-up of the Punisher's storyline was a little too pat, with him just showing up to shoot some ninjas fairly randomly. 

However, I think the first 3 quarters of the show were superior to last season.  Like I mentioned before, giving Karen and Foggy something to do independent of Matt, that isn't already duplicated effort, made their storylines more compelling.  The stuff with the Punisher in jail with Fisk was great, and I really enjoyed Matt and Electra working heists against the Yakuza/Hand.

Still, I enjoyed it overall, and am looking forward to Luke Cage in the fall--which had a great little teaser at the end.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 24, 2016, 06:47:22 AM
So I just finished it tonight, really enjoyed it. Not sure which season is better, my memory of S1 has kinda faded a bit.

Not much at all to say that hasn't been brought up earlier. Yes, Punisher was more intense and angry than pretty much every other iteration but they made it work and it probably works better for this series than the comics or cartoons. I feel a good comparison is that this Punisher is more like John Rambo in First Blood than in the later Rambo movies. More emotional and shell-shocked.

Love Stick. He is very entertaining, and yes, a lovable d*ck. I enjoyed seeing more of him.

Spoiler
Kingpin appearance was great. Loved how Fisk had the run of the place in prison. Exactly what I expected when he went to jail at the end of S1, since he did that in the comics anyway.

I enjoyed the Microchip reference but it really felt like the kind of reference that will have non-comics fans turning to their comics-reading friends to explain what it meant (and I did get asked about it)

Totally missed Stiltman's easter egg. Gonna have to look that up.

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 24, 2016, 10:13:51 PM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on March 24, 2016, 06:47:22 AM

Spoiler


Totally missed Stiltman's easter egg. Gonna have to look that up.


Spoiler
The scene when Gladiator/Melvin is outfitting Elektra and taking her measurements.  The Body and the legs are off in the corner.  I believe as he's looking taking out the Billy Club.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Podmark on March 25, 2016, 01:53:28 AM
Season 2 was great! Maybe not as good as season 1 but they go well together.

Spoiler

Everything with the Kingpin was gold. Him taking over the prison was the highlight of the whole season, maybe the whole show.

Really enjoyed the Punisher in this. I figured he'd be more involved in the final fight on the roof, but at least he showed up by the end. I agree with Tomato's version of the final fight, that would have been the way to go.
I hope they do a Punisher show.

Foggy and Karen were great in this season. As was Stick.

Was disappointed in the Hand. I was looking forward to them but the plot just seemed flat. It felt like a subplot to keep Matt busy between Punisher/Karen/Foggy scenes. Elektra didn't do much for me either.
The final fight itself seemed oddly shot to me. Everytime it switched to a crane shot it threw me off. Stuff like that doesn't usually bother me so this was odd.

The most important thing I took from Daredevil: Don't become a vigilante. Seriously, how does Matt keep going back out every night after the beatings he takes? He should have been down for weeks lol.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: Talavar on March 25, 2016, 04:34:25 AM
Quote from: Podmark on March 25, 2016, 01:53:28 AM
Season 2 was great! Maybe not as good as season 1 but they go well together.

Spoiler

Everything with the Kingpin was gold. Him taking over the prison was the highlight of the whole season, maybe the whole show.

Really enjoyed the Punisher in this. I figured he'd be more involved in the final fight on the roof, but at least he showed up by the end. I agree with Tomato's version of the final fight, that would have been the way to go.
I hope they do a Punisher show.

Foggy and Karen were great in this season. As was Stick.

Was disappointed in the Hand. I was looking forward to them but the plot just seemed flat. It felt like a subplot to keep Matt busy between Punisher/Karen/Foggy scenes. Elektra didn't do much for me either.
The final fight itself seemed oddly shot to me. Everytime it switched to a crane shot it threw me off. Stuff like that doesn't usually bother me so this was odd.

The most important thing I took from Daredevil: Don't become a vigilante. Seriously, how does Matt keep going back out every night after the beatings he takes? He should have been down for weeks lol.

Re: vigilantes, all I kept thinking was...
Spoiler
when the Defenders crossover happens, Matt Murdock is going to meet Luke Cage and be so, so jealous of his powers.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on March 25, 2016, 12:54:00 PM
The second season of Daredevil was good, but I think the ending was kind of rushed.  If they do decide to make a third season, they have to bring Bullseye into the show.  He would have worked out great in the second season.  I just hope that they put him in the show
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 25, 2016, 04:47:03 PM
Saw the whole season 2.And it was okay.
About the Punisher;its basicly a year one story,and by the end he seems to have grown into the more familiar version we know and like.
Spoiler
Whole burning the house thing is meant to symbolize that Frank Castle is dead(the newspapers) and that hes The Punisher now.
I would definitively watch his solo series.
There is less talking about the broader MCU in this season.Which actually works better for the show IMO.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 29, 2016, 01:13:44 PM
Best comment about Daredevil right here, from Channel Awesome's Nash:

QuoteI can't wait for the Defenders, when Daredevil watches Luke and Jessica *not* get half beaten to death in every fight. He's gonna cry.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on March 29, 2016, 10:28:35 PM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on March 29, 2016, 01:13:44 PM
Best comment about Daredevil right here, from Channel Awesome's Nash:

QuoteI can't wait for the Defenders, when Daredevil watches Luke and Jessica *not* get half beaten to death in every fight. He's gonna cry.

I thought something very similar.  Too true!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on April 19, 2016, 12:21:14 AM
Since it hasn't been mentioned here yet, some of the actors involved have states that Defenders is scheduled to begin filming by the end of the year and should go live next year.  Sounds like basically as soon as Iron Fist is done.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on April 19, 2016, 02:46:14 AM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on April 19, 2016, 12:21:14 AM
Since it hasn't been mentioned here yet, some of the actors involved have states that Defenders is scheduled to begin filming by the end of the year and should go live next year.  Sounds like basically as soon as Iron Fist is done.

I meant to post about this the other day--Netflix & Marvel have chosen the Daredevil showrunners from this past season, Douglas Petrie and Marco Ramirez, to be the Defenders showrunners, with Drew Goddard from season 1 as executive producer.  That's solid, though I hope the creative teams behind the other shows at least get some input, particularly those of Jessica Jones, which was excellent.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on April 19, 2016, 07:34:09 PM
And I suppose I meant to post this...

Set pics.
http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/19/11459078/marvel-netflix-iron-fist-dude
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: JeyNyce on April 21, 2016, 03:52:54 PM
They show Stilt-man outfit in both seasons of DD, I'm just waiting for somebody to steal it and use it.  Even if its just for comic relief
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 29, 2016, 04:29:16 PM
http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/punisher-spinoff-netflix-1201763413/ (http://variety.com/2016/digital/news/punisher-spinoff-netflix-1201763413/)
Punisher is getting his own spinoff.After much denying he would.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on April 29, 2016, 05:57:33 PM
I am totally and completely shocked.......  would have never ever thought Netflix would do this...........  yep... never saw it coming..........
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on April 29, 2016, 08:32:29 PM
This is a true shock to us all.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 29, 2016, 08:51:37 PM
I wonder why all of the denial...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on April 29, 2016, 09:22:44 PM
I think they were more denying any plans to do so from the beginning, not that it was never going to be possible.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on April 30, 2016, 03:38:12 AM
The sarcasm in the previous posts is almost palpable.

But yeah, I'm with Cat. I think it was always one of those "we HOPE it develops into this" more than it was the plan all along.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 30, 2016, 04:58:15 AM
This may sound weird,but I hope it will be lighter in tone then previous Netflix instalments.More Marvel Knights then Marvel Max.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 30, 2016, 11:11:47 PM
While I sympathize with that desire, I can't imagine that would be the case.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 01, 2016, 05:43:28 AM
Just injecting more dark humor would be okay.
-SEE you around,Red. :)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 13, 2016, 06:03:38 PM
Another crazy pitch,but it would be cool if Foolkiller showed up in season 1 of Punisher.Some cross between Steve Gerber and MAX version,and it could work.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 18, 2016, 07:55:02 PM
Reportedly, Netflix is now in the initial stages of development for Blade, Moon Knight, and Ghost Rider shows.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 19, 2016, 12:34:13 AM
I would watch all of those.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on May 19, 2016, 08:42:48 AM
Marvel is going really dark with their tv properties. AOS has gotten progressively darker through it's last 2 seasons, DD and JJ are some of the darkest cb properties out there and now Punisher, Blade and Moon Knight are coming???? I would like Iron Fist to be more upbeat and lighter for variety. This is what made the cinematic MCU pop and i think the tv one should follow as well.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 19, 2016, 09:55:32 AM
Im supprised about Ghost Rider.Others were to be expected.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 19, 2016, 04:08:45 PM
Agreed Jim.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: stumpy on May 19, 2016, 10:25:55 PM
For Punisher fans, I am happy that this will happen. Personally, I can't say I have much interest in watching a Punisher show. Of course, we are not all the way through this season's Daredevil, so maybe it will seem like a more enticing prospect by the end.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 19, 2016, 10:42:23 PM
Quote from: stumpy on May 19, 2016, 10:25:55 PM
For Punisher fans, I am happy that this will happen. Personally, I can't say I have much interest in watching a Punisher show. Of course, we are not all the way through this season's Daredevil, so maybe it will seem like a more enticing prospect by the end.

Given that we are now talking about Moon Knight, Blade, and Ghost Rider, I don't think you scrolled down enough.

Quote from: Jimaras8 on May 19, 2016, 08:42:48 AM
Marvel is going really dark with their tv properties. AOS has gotten progressively darker through it's last 2 seasons, DD and JJ are some of the darkest cb properties out there and now Punisher, Blade and Moon Knight are coming???? I would like Iron Fist to be more upbeat and lighter for variety. This is what made the cinematic MCU pop and i think the tv one should follow as well.

Well, for the movies, Marvel is going for broad appeal.  They want to get everyone they can into the theatre, and they collect their money per person.  Netflix doesn't care how many people actually sit down and watch the shows.  They care about how many subscribers they have.  The folks who pay for Netflix subscriptions are exactly the kind of folks who like these types of shows.  In fact, nearly all of Netflix's shows have a very adult theme.  I can think of exactly one thing that's not a cartoon that is in any way family friendly.  It's just a completely different thing.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 19, 2016, 11:07:48 PM
But the success of the Marvel Movieverse clearly indicates the appeal of a bright and heroic story.  There's room enough for both types of tales, and much range between them.  I'm sure there are many Netflix subscribers, like me, who would enjoy a high quality darker show (Daredevil) and a high quality lighter show.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on May 20, 2016, 12:11:45 AM
Netflix doesn't care about broad appeal.  Netflix cares about the one person in each househouse paying for their services and whatever will make them keep doing so.  Marvel for their movies, on the other hand, does.

Right now, the current crop of dark tales is getting Netflix a lot of attention and thus getting the attention of lots of subscribers.  There's no way they are going to mess with a winning formula by doing something lighter and happier.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on May 20, 2016, 01:32:40 AM
But there's plenty of opportunity for them to run that particular horse into the ground.  I really like Daredevil, but I don't think I'd be interested in a whole slate of shows with a similar tone.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on May 20, 2016, 02:45:48 AM
Just to throw some water on this, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight, and Blade as Netflix shows are all in the totally unsubstantiated rumour category.  As in, the rumours of these aren't even running on reputable rumour sites.  The original site to reference these has gotten rid of the original post.  I'd take their existence with fairly large dose of NaCl.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on May 20, 2016, 05:02:19 AM
Some people(by that I mean CBR) theorised that Hellstrom could be the next Netflix show.Because the character is making a comeback.
I still think Foolkiller would have been perfect for the next show.I mean,he fights an expy of Donald Trump,how funny would that be now?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on May 20, 2016, 07:03:40 PM
Quote from: Talavar on May 20, 2016, 02:45:48 AM
Just to throw some water on this, Ghost Rider, Moon Knight, and Blade as Netflix shows are all in the totally unsubstantiated rumour category.  As in, the rumours of these aren't even running on reputable rumour sites.  The original site to reference these has gotten rid of the original post.  I'd take their existence with fairly large dose of NaCl.

This wouldn't be the first time I've heard this rumor.  Never really put any weight in it to start with.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Jimaras8 on May 21, 2016, 10:38:17 AM
Having only dark properties though will wear people down especially Marvel fans. I love Spider-man and Daredevil. If you give only Spider-man though or only Daredevil eventually the monotony of the tone will be obvious. Marvel is making those shows and they decide what they will be. Netflix is just the platform, the budget and aesthetic is determined by Marvel. They have 6 announced shows right now on Netflix and if all 6 of them will be grim they are shooting themselves in the foot.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on July 22, 2016, 02:30:59 AM
News out of Comic-Con: Daredevil has officially been renewed for a third season, a trailer for Luke Cage has been released onto them internets, along with a teaser (no actual footage) for the Defenders.  Looking good!

Edited to add: And now a snippet of Iron Fist is online too.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on July 22, 2016, 05:35:02 AM
The trailers don't tell us too much, but I'm interested in both the Cage and Iron Fist shows.   :)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on July 22, 2016, 07:22:29 AM
Not sure if this was the teaser you were referring to(there is another), but is the line at the end new?

https://youtu.be/wBZtM8q2Z1g
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on July 22, 2016, 01:29:44 PM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on July 22, 2016, 07:22:29 AM
Not sure if this was the teaser you were referring to(there is another), but is the line at the end new?

https://youtu.be/wBZtM8q2Z1g

That is the Defenders one, I'm not sure if the line is new.  Here's links to Iron fist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCSPda7xQ3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCSPda7xQ3s), and Luke Cage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymw5uvViqPU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymw5uvViqPU)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 02, 2016, 02:37:51 AM
Okay, folks I gotta hear from others on their impressions on LUKE CAGE.  I started watching last night, continued through today, stopped to watch the game and will finish tonight.  But to say the least, this show is as much of a departure from the previous two series as the Netflix shows are a departure from the MCU itself.  The critical reaction is one thing, but genre fans are of a different type, looking at and for different things.  But I gotta say as a genre fan and as a African-American, this show is by far my favorite movie, series, short, comic Marvel has produce in probably decades.  Is it perfect?  Probably not, but if the Avengers is a good well balanced meal, Luke Cage is a plate of soul food.  It may not be completely good for you but man am I thoroughly enjoying it.  I felt like the target audience.  It was authentic.  It spoke to me, the themes, the characters, the look and sound.  All of it.

Before I had a chance to start it, a friend of mine described it saying "It's like The Wire if Cutty were Captain America."  That alone sold it for me and if you know the show, he was absolutely right.

Spoiler
First of all the way the show started, some guys in barbershop in Harlem talking about basketball.  I laughed, not just because the conversation was funny (Pat Reilly and Don Corleone get free hair cuts and "Im sick and tired" bit) but it was COMPLETELY familiar.  Outside of the plentiful MCU connections and easter eggs(the Incident, Jessica Jones references, Trish Talk, "Powerman" name drops, 70s outfit, Claire Temple, Hammer Industries, Turk, etc), the show is, they made a point to connect the show to the community it's in.  Again, the themes, the people, the language, all of it was authentically I guess you can say "urban" or "street", but it was like stuff black folks like.  From mentions of Black Lives Matter, greek sororities, past Harlem drug kingpins like Nicky Barnes, the music, the music itself seemed like a separate character. It wasn't just in the background.  It was featured.  The characters were crude, unrefined, brash, and I felt like I actually KNOW these people.  The scene with Misty Knight and Claire in the interrogation room was pitch perfect.  Cottonmouth was awesome.  The dynamic with him and Mariah was intense.  Diamondback was twisted.  Shades was cool.  They fit in the show and the universe like a glove.  They touched on policing, community development, crack-cocaine explosion, firearm proliferation, Donald Goins, Langston Hughes, and on.  It was funny that I was talking to someone about Crispus Attucks and his part in American history earlier yesterday and then Luke spoke to the kid who had a gun to his head about him on screen.  I couldn't help but to think it was also an slight illusion to whats going on in terms of protest and being black in America today.

I clearly can go on, but just suffice to say the show CONNECTED, not just to me, but looking at some of my friends reactions who aren't big comic fans, they connected to it too.  My curiosity is to know whether could there have been that same connection outside of a particular audience, or despite that, was it still as enjoyable to others. Because this has been a joy to watch and I for one, can't wait to finish.

Really would love to hear others thoughts so far.  I'll probably have more to say later tonight, but again, I am thoroughly enjoying what I'm seeing for many reasons.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on October 02, 2016, 03:05:00 AM
I've enjoyed it so far. I'm only a few episodes in right now, just got through the origin episode. Love the bit with him in his full gear.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on October 02, 2016, 03:20:31 AM
6 episodes in and I am loving it.  The Marvel Netflix shows continue to kill it, and continue to make me wonder if I should even bother with Agents of Shield anymore.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on October 02, 2016, 11:25:02 AM
Im watching episode 7 right now. It's just fantastic in my opinion. I love how it really drew from Kung Fu movies and Blacksploitation movies of the 70s. Then it also draws from Tarantino's love of those two genres, too. So good.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on October 02, 2016, 03:53:31 PM
Marathoned it from start to finish last night, probably shouldn't have (Sleep schedule is waaaay off now) but this might be my favorite of the Netflix shows so far. It still has it's moments, but this is also easily the most tame of the 3 series... though I would warn anyone who would watch this and not the others that this does reference the other series (particularly JJ, for obvious reasons) pretty heavily. Not in a "You HAVE to have watched them" kind of way, but they'll talk about punisher or about some things that happened to luke in passing, and you might be lost in those moments. If it has any sore spots, it does have some political charge (not anything specifically along party lines, but as was said going in, this IS a bulletproof Black Man)

That being said, this might well be my favorite of the 3. Good amount of action, great characters, respect for history, great humor... even an honest to goodness Supervillain fight. So while I suggest people know about plot points from the other series going in, I urge anyone who's been on the fence for some of the admittedly darker stories to watch this one. That being said...

Spoiler
I think the weakest element in the whole series was the transition from Cottonmouth to Diamondback. We go from one black gangster who's obsessive about Luke Cage to the point where he self-destructs to another Gangster who's obsessive about Luke Cage to the point he self destructs. Like... I know the history of the characters and how big a deal Diamondback was to the formation of Cage, but he had been built up as this dude who was getting tired of Cottonmouth's single minded drive and was gonna come back and replace him... to just another dude who had a crazy obsession with Cage. Except unlike Cottonmouth, who we've seen has a code of ethics and was a genuinely interesting character(I honestly did feel bad for him when he found out his lieutenant shot up the barber shop), Diamondback was just a crazy person with a grudge match against Cage for reasons that we hear about, but never see. Aside from the growth of Shades and Cottonmouth's cousin, the replacement served no purpose, and I'd rather they have used Diamondback for a second season.

Still, that's really not a huge deal, especially compared to how DD Season 2 went waaay off the rails in the second half of the story. I do like how things have been set up for season 2/the Defenders, and I loved the respect the series showed Harlem, both it's people and it's history.

Also, the bit with the costume might have been my favorite bit in the whole show.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 03, 2016, 01:37:44 AM
Quote from: Tomato on October 02, 2016, 03:53:31 PM
Marathoned it from start to finish last night, probably shouldn't have (Sleep schedule is waaaay off now) but this might be my favorite of the Netflix shows so far. It still has it's moments, but this is also easily the most tame of the 3 series... though I would warn anyone who would watch this and not the others that this does reference the other series (particularly JJ, for obvious reasons) pretty heavily. Not in a "You HAVE to have watched them" kind of way, but they'll talk about punisher or about some things that happened to luke in passing, and you might be lost in those moments. If it has any sore spots, it does have some political charge (not anything specifically along party lines, but as was said going in, this IS a bulletproof Black Man)

That being said, this might well be my favorite of the 3. Good amount of action, great characters, respect for history, great humor... even an honest to goodness Supervillain fight. So while I suggest people know about plot points from the other series going in, I urge anyone who's been on the fence for some of the admittedly darker stories to watch this one. That being said...

Spoiler
I think the weakest element in the whole series was the transition from Cottonmouth to Diamondback. We go from one black gangster who's obsessive about Luke Cage to the point where he self-destructs to another Gangster who's obsessive about Luke Cage to the point he self destructs. Like... I know the history of the characters and how big a deal Diamondback was to the formation of Cage, but he had been built up as this dude who was getting tired of Cottonmouth's single minded drive and was gonna come back and replace him... to just another dude who had a crazy obsession with Cage. Except unlike Cottonmouth, who we've seen has a code of ethics and was a genuinely interesting character(I honestly did feel bad for him when he found out his lieutenant shot up the barber shop), Diamondback was just a crazy person with a grudge match against Cage for reasons that we hear about, but never see. Aside from the growth of Shades and Cottonmouth's cousin, the replacement served no purpose, and I'd rather they have used Diamondback for a second season.

Still, that's really not a huge deal, especially compared to how DD Season 2 went waaay off the rails in the second half of the story. I do like how things have been set up for season 2/the Defenders, and I loved the respect the series showed Harlem, both it's people and it's history.

Also, the bit with the costume might have been my favorite bit in the whole show.

"I look like a damn fool!" 

I dig what you saying Tomato.  Not sure if I fully agree with some parts.

Spoiler
I don't think watching the other series are as critical.  I know there's Trish Talk, Claire's lawyer references and Pop bringing up Jessica Jones, but I still think it's to the point where you'll be wondering what happened.  Dont think people will be as lost, though it might color things differently though.   That and I hear you about the stark villain change.  Now that you mention, it seem like Diamondback only came out of nowhere after/because of Cottonmouth and not because of his hate of Luke.  That and I kinda do wish Cottonmouth stayed around longer because Marsheali Ali CRUSHED IT.

But definitely agree with all you said above.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on October 03, 2016, 01:11:30 PM
Spoiler
It's mostly in regards to Claire, who has been a recurring character in every season thus far. Her relationship with Luke was established in JJ, and while they do a good job of summing it up for people who came in late, there's subtleties about her character you'll miss if you didn't see her progression across the previous 3 shows. Plus, the ultimate fate of Luke's wife (who is established far more here than in JJ) is glossed over because it was a major plot thread in JJ, which might be a little frustrating for people. It's not game breaking, but as I said, it's more prevalent than in other shows because so many main characters showed up in previous series.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 03, 2016, 09:15:46 PM
Quote from: Tomato on October 03, 2016, 01:11:30 PM
Spoiler
It's mostly in regards to Claire, who has been a recurring character in every season thus far. Her relationship with Luke was established in JJ, and while they do a good job of summing it up for people who came in late, there's subtleties about her character you'll miss if you didn't see her progression across the previous 3 shows. Plus, the ultimate fate of Luke's wife (who is established far more here than in JJ) is glossed over because it was a major plot thread in JJ, which might be a little frustrating for people. It's not game breaking, but as I said, it's more prevalent than in other shows because so many main characters showed up in previous series.

Spoiler
Honestly, I wouldn't say just with Claire.  I had a friend come in town and gushing over the show I decided to let him watch the first 5-10 mins and I found myself explaining who Reva was and the shotgun incident Pop was referring to in the second scene.  I suppose I didn't have to, but i wanted to give context that Luke Cage didn't.  But I see your point though. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on October 04, 2016, 12:36:55 AM
Spoiler
Does anybody know what's up with Commanche? He was mentioned as another prisoner at Seagate, but I don't think he was in Harlem at all.  At first I thought Diamondback was Commanche, cause he had the sniper rifle and was dropping Warriors quotes. Maybe Season 2?

Also, I'm not that familiar with the original Diamondback, but I thought it was pretty interesting that his super-suit reminded me of Rock Python, a Serpent Squad villain.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on October 04, 2016, 01:51:54 AM
Quote from: detourne_me on October 04, 2016, 12:36:55 AM
Spoiler
Does anybody know what's up with Commanche? He was mentioned as another prisoner at Seagate, but I don't think he was in Harlem at all.  At first I thought Diamondback was Commanche, cause he had the sniper rifle and was dropping Warriors quotes. Maybe Season 2?

Also, I'm not that familiar with the original Diamondback, but I thought it was pretty interesting that his super-suit reminded me of Rock Python, a Serpent Squad villain.

Spoiler
Diamondback in the comics :P

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/diamondback/4005-25689/

Oddly enough, though, everything else about Styker seems pretty darn close, even his suit.

Willis Stryker: http://comicvine.gamespot.com/willis-stryker/4005-44388/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on October 05, 2016, 03:46:58 PM
A page of spoiler conversations...hmm, apparently I need to finish this series.  :P

So, we watched the first episode last night, and we really weren't that impressed.  I had pretty high hopes after how amazing Daredevil was, but the quality just wasn't as good. It was also uneven, and the writing and delivery often felt forced.  I'm particularly interested in Shogunn's reaction, as the show felt 'inauthentic' to me.  Of course, I'm very much unfamiliar with that world, so I suppose the fault is mine, especially given Shogunn's enthusiastic endorsement of its portrayal. 

While Daredevil employed gratuitous violence to prove it could ('guess what, we're not on cable!'), this show seems to be doing the same thing with gratuitous sex and nudity, which I didn't care for either.  Still, there were things about it I liked, some clever moments and some good staging. The political angle was pretty intriguing, and I'd be curious to see where it will go. The main character is likeable and interesting as well, but the total effect was disappointing for us.  Given all of the positivity here, I'm encouraged, and we'll definitely keep watching it, though I may have a hard time talking the wife into that.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on October 05, 2016, 03:57:51 PM
No spoilers, but Benton, I will say that I was sort of in the same boat about the nudity(I defend it's presence in Jessica Jones up to a point due to the nature of that show and the themes it deals with, but its only purpose in Luke Cage is to establish the weird relationship between Cage and Knight, and the bar scene and the scene afterwards do that well enough)... but that scene is weirdly the only instance of it. Sure, they do refer to it a lot (I hope you like the coffee metaphor, it'll be used a LOT) we do get a LOT of shirtless cage (notably the origin sequence) but that's not nudity so much as fan-service. Beyond that, there's really not time for it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 05, 2016, 07:12:38 PM
Very quickly about the sex, I said before that in Jessica Jones, I thought those scenes, which were rather "hardcore" were party of the story.  Two super strong people finding out that there is someone like them and they are using that strength without limit because they can.  That said, the scene in Luke Cage was a might different.  They didn't show the actual act.  Up until Misty left and we got a boob shot, I've seen similar in on cable tv.

Quote from: BentonGrey on October 05, 2016, 03:46:58 PM
A page of spoiler conversations...hmm, apparently I need to finish this series.  :P

So, we watched the first episode last night, and we really weren't that impressed.  I had pretty high hopes after how amazing Daredevil was, but the quality just wasn't as good. It was also uneven, and the writing and delivery often felt forced.  I'm particularly interested in Shogunn's reaction, as the show felt 'inauthentic' to me.  Of course, I'm very much unfamiliar with that world, so I suppose the fault is mine, especially given Shogunn's enthusiastic endorsement of its portrayal. 

While Daredevil employed gratuitous violence to prove it could ('guess what, we're not on cable!'), this show seems to be doing the same thing with gratuitous sex and nudity, which I didn't care for either.  Still, there were things about it I liked, some clever moments and some good staging. The political angle was pretty intriguing, and I'd be curious to see where it will go. The main character is likeable and interesting as well, but the total effect was disappointing for us.  Given all of the positivity here, I'm encouraged, and we'll definitely keep watching it, though I may have a hard time talking the wife into that.

But no worries, Benton.  You're entitled to your opinion and it's as valid as the next.  But I'm just saying for me, the cultural references made the show connect to me THAT much more.  Like a scene with some guys in a Barbershop talking basketball.  I've done that.  I work in politics and I KNOW politicians like Mariah.  I know personalities like Cottonmouth.  May not be criminal, but it's completely familiar.  Not to spoil too much but there's a line where Misty talks about a soror "skee-weeing out of here" and I knew EXACTLY what she meant.  That's my mom's sorority and my girl's.  Things like that.  They just made it make MORE sense, to me at least.

But again, that's what I'm curious about.  To those that might be unfamiliar with the world, would it still connect.  I've had friends that really connected.  Some not so much but enjoyed the show.  And then there's Benton.  :P  But again, I think I was as curious about your impressions as you are mine.  Feel free to finish the series and let us know.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on October 05, 2016, 11:36:06 PM
I'm not connected to the world, but I definitely appreciated it.  A lot of likable (and unlikable) characters filled the show and pretty much all in a good way.  I really felt sad when certain things happened to particular characters and upset when certain things didn't go our heroes' way.  I'll agree with Benton that it wasn't as good as Daredevil Season 1, but it was a close second for sure.  I could feel the heart in all of the characters.  Cottonmouth, while I didn't like him, was excellently acted.  Luke was charming; Misty wasn't some dependent cliché side character; Pops was genuinely likable; etc.  Really great series.

@Benton: Yeah, the first episode was a bit odd and the last few were a bit... strange I guess would be the word to describe it, but it really does get better as it goes.  Tomato is right in that we don't see ANYTHING like that at all for the rest of the show (ok, there's a kiss or two, but that's it), so if that bothered you, it won't any more.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on October 06, 2016, 09:40:40 PM
Like I said guys, the positivity here is certainly encouraging.  We'll definitely stick with it.  I'm glad to hear that the raunchy stuff from the first episode isn't everywhere. 

Shogunn, I appreciate your response, but I'd say that my opinion is definitely not just as valid as yours, considering I don't know the the world being painted.  :)  Lady Grey and I were wondering if the false notes we were hearing were a lack of authenticity or just a matter of poor delivery.  It sounds like it is definitely the latter, which is a much better problem to have and one more easily forgiven.  Plus, it's a lot more likely to get better over the course of the show.

I'm very interested to see how the rest of the show stands up.

Ohh, did anyone else feel like the scene with the thugs shaking down the restaurant folks for a political contribution felt a bit off?  Protection money under the guise of politics is one thing, but it sounded more like they were after an actual donation which just seemed...odd.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on October 07, 2016, 01:08:43 AM
Oh, no. It was robbery; not a donation.  I mean, they'll call it a "donation", but that most certainly wasn't what it was.

And about my post really quick (I just want to clarify): When I said that I didn't like Cottonmouth, I mean I didn't like what he did. His character and the acting behind him was phenomenal. He's a great addition to the MCU's villain cast

Spoiler
Until his crazy cousin does him in
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on October 07, 2016, 02:53:51 AM
To be fair Benton, there ARE criticisms of the series' later episodes... but those criticisms are all in the spoiler tags because they relate to the second half of the series. So while I'd say it's still my favorite of the three shows, please understand that it's not to say it's above criticism. It certainly isn't, and I could not blame you if you don't like it as much as the others. But I do feel there's a LOT of good moments I think you should see before making the call one way or the other (the origin episode about midway through the series is a major highlight)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Talavar on October 10, 2016, 01:58:29 PM
News out of New York Comic Con:

Spoiler
Sigourney Weaver has been cast as the villain for Defenders, which is apparently only 8 episodes.  Karen Page is going to be in Punisher's own show, which is apparently filming already.  And Iron Fist footage was shown, some of which has hit the web, and he does get a glowing hand effect.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: stumpy on October 16, 2016, 04:51:52 AM
Been watching this series over the past couple of weeks and just finished season 1 tonight. I have to say, this was really good. When I was a kid, quite possibly my first comic book purchases were Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes #250 and Power Man and Iron Fist #54 (I think). So, I was pretty excited to hear this series was coming to Netflix. I have enjoyed it as much as Daredevil and Jessica Jones.

And, it has be generally very good. The characters are interesting, the acting has been good, and the plot lines not too unbelievable (which is kind of the benchmark for shows like this). And, of course, the music. When Harlem's Paradise is almost ruined during one episode, both my gf and I were worried that the show wouldn't have the opportunity to showcase the music that adds so much flavor to the show, IMO.

Spoiler
I do agree that Cottonmouth was more interesting (and played in a more compelling way) than Diamondback. I understand that they are setting the scene for future seasons in which Mariah is the main opponent. I think she is pretty good and will be a compelling player in the story. Who knows if the Rat Pack will be make an appearance.

BTW, spydermann93, the Diamondback to whom you posted a picture is from Captain America's cast of characters. The Diamondback from the Power Man series predates her, I think.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on October 16, 2016, 05:19:17 AM
We watched the second episode tonight, and we both felt it was significantly better.  I'm looking forward to finishing this series.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on October 16, 2016, 02:29:56 PM
Quote from: stumpy on October 16, 2016, 04:51:52 AMBTW, spydermann93, the Diamondback to whom you posted a picture is from Captain America's cast of characters. The Diamondback from the Power Man series predates her, I think.

Oh, really? I thought they just changed the SS Diamondback (because Cottonmouth was a villain in the show, too). But hey, that's interesting to know!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 08, 2017, 01:36:30 AM
Official Iron Fist trailer.  Looks interesting so far.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OKL5no-S0
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 14, 2017, 12:41:11 AM
So as some of you have probably heard by now, Iron Fist is getting terrible reviews.

Lead actor Finn Jones (Danny Rand/Iron Fist) responded by saying it's for the fans and not for critics.  (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/iron-fist-actor-responds-to-negative-reviews/1100-6448655/) Which is a pretty good response, as far as these things go. The only problem I have is that all of the other Marvel Netflix series got very good reviews. Even Luke Cage, which was easily the weakest series, got a 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. Hell, even the thoroughly mediocre Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D is currently running pull quote-filed ads in Marvel comics right now that are a source of unintentional comedy for me. Iron Fist must be pretty poor to get this response. All the MCU films also good good reviews, including Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2 and 3, and the two Thor films. I was expecting IF to be in line with Luke Cage (which was decent, but not great) so I'm actually surprised by this.

And before anyone brings up the race angle, the reviews address that the problem is not the White Savior cliche, or anything like that, but that the show features uninteresting characters, weak storytelling and surprisingly mediocre fight choreography. Obviously, I haven't seen it yet, but those are the areas that, if poor, could sink the enterprise, since those were areas where DD and the others excelled, and this production doesn't feature as impressive a cast as DD or JJ.

[Edit] So I forgot about this, but I should probably bring up that critics have only seen the first 6 episodes of the show, meaning it's possible it picks up in the second half.


Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on March 14, 2017, 12:53:34 AM
Yeah, I've been hearing that critics have been panning the show pretty hard, but I'm still going to give it a go. I haven't disliked the Marvel Netflix shows yet, so I remain optimistic.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 14, 2017, 05:37:29 AM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on March 14, 2017, 12:41:11 AM
So as some of you have probably heard by now, Iron Fist is getting terrible reviews.

Lead actor Finn Jones (Danny Rand/Iron Fist) responded by saying it's for the fans and not for critics.  (http://www.gamespot.com/articles/iron-fist-actor-responds-to-negative-reviews/1100-6448655/) Which is a pretty good response, as far as these things go. The only problem I have is that all of the other Marvel Netflix series got very good reviews. Even Luke Cage, which was easily the weakest series, got a 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. Hell, even the thoroughly mediocre Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D is currently running pull quote-filed ads in Marvel comics right now that are a source of unintentional comedy for me. Iron Fist must be pretty poor to get this response. All the MCU films also good good reviews, including Incredible Hulk, Iron Man 2 and 3, and the two Thor films. I was expecting IF to be in line with Luke Cage (which was decent, but not great) so I'm actually surprised by this.

And before anyone brings up the race angle, the reviews address that the problem is not the White Savior cliche, or anything like that, but that the show features uninteresting characters, weak storytelling and surprisingly mediocre fight choreography. Obviously, I haven't seen it yet, but those are the areas that, if poor, could sink the enterprise, since those were areas where DD and the others excelled, and this production doesn't feature as impressive a cast as DD or JJ.

[Edit] So I forgot about this, but I should probably bring up that critics have only seen the first 6 episodes of the show, meaning it's possible it picks up in the second half.

BTW, not for nothing, you have to admit it's just your opinion that Luke Cage is "easily the weakest" series, when it did score better on RT than the other three.  I don't think that qualifies as "easily".
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 14, 2017, 05:42:30 AM
Or it could be that people just got tired of origin stories...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 14, 2017, 03:13:29 PM
Yeah, things are looking pretty grim for this show.  I think part of the reaction seems predicated on the backlash the character generated because of his origins, but the reviews definitely go beyond that.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 14, 2017, 03:44:03 PM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on March 14, 2017, 12:41:11 AM
[Edit] So I forgot about this, but I should probably bring up that critics have only seen the first 6 episodes of the show, meaning it's possible it picks up in the second half.

That doesn't really make things better. 'Well, the first six episodes were crap, but if I'm somehow still sticking with it by this point, then maybe the second half is marginally better by comparison.' The point being that as good as the second half may or may not be, you still shouldn't have to wade through six episodes of sludge to get there.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Ouflah on March 14, 2017, 05:33:25 PM
Quote from: kkhohoho on March 14, 2017, 03:44:03 PMThat doesn't really make things better. 'Well, the first six episodes were crap, but if I'm somehow still sticking with it by this point, then maybe the second half is marginally better by comparison.' The point being that as good as the second half may or may not be, you still shouldn't have to wade through six episodes of sludge to get there.
I completely agree.

Too bad it's getting poor reviews. Since I heard Iron Fist was going to be getting his costume, I planned on trying it out.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 14, 2017, 09:22:03 PM
In all seriousness though, are people seriously being critical of Iron Fist because he's not Asian?  Why would anybody be mad at the show and not Roy Thomas who wrote it?  I mean "Danny Rand" isn't the most Asian of names I've heard of....

Am I missing something?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 14, 2017, 10:28:30 PM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on March 14, 2017, 09:22:03 PM
In all seriousness though, are people seriously being critical of Iron Fist because he's not Asian?  Why would anybody be mad at the show and not Roy Thomas who wrote it?  I mean "Danny Rand" isn't the most Asian of names I've heard of....

Am I missing something?

Probably. Aside from most people not knowing who the heck Roy Thomas even is, (shame that,) Iron Fist the TV show isn't Iron Fist the comic, so while it should more or less stay true to its source material to a certain extent, it can also and perhaps is even expected to make some changes for both a new medium and a new decade. What was even then only somewhat acceptable in 1974 isn't so acceptable in 2017, and because of that, they aren't going to let a case of Mighty Whitey fly. It doesn't matter to them whether or not Danny Rand was originally white or who was responsible for making him white, or even that his name isn't Asian. Heck, if it isn't a very Asian name, they could have just changed it. What matters to them is having better representation and not letting a white man be the master of an Asian dominated artform over all other Asians, source material be damned. Nothing more, nothing less.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 15, 2017, 03:02:31 AM
Yes Shogunn, they are.  Several reviews I saw seemed to indicate that they were primed to dislike the show because of the politically incorrect character (though their complaints obviously seemed to go much deeper than that initial bias).  I think that's just silly in context.  The character was created in the 70s, and the show is just adapting it.  Kk is right, and that won't cut any ice with a lot of folks.  Still, it isn't like Marvel's shows are lacking diversity anyway.  You're not dealing with the Silver Age Marvel U where every character is white.  In the Marvel TV universe you've got several minority characters on Agents of SHIELD, Luke Cage headlining a series and working with a mostly black cast, and more.  If they're faithful to the character AND there isn't really a diversity problem AND folks get upset when Asian characters are all about martial arts anyway, it seems like trouble over nothing.  It's not like we're talking about a Kung-Fu situation, where an Asian character is being portrayed by a white guy.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Ouflah on March 15, 2017, 03:33:28 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 15, 2017, 03:02:31 AMwhere an Asian character is being portrayed by a white guy.
*cough cough* Ancient One *cough*
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on March 15, 2017, 03:54:43 AM
Uhh, excuse me. Swilda Tinton is clearly a female *pushes up glasses nerdily*
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 15, 2017, 03:56:03 AM
Haha, exactly, and that was done in part to avoid the 'old Asian master' sterotype, which just put them in hot water for a DIFFERENT reason.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 15, 2017, 04:40:58 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 15, 2017, 03:56:03 AM
Haha, exactly, and that was done in part to avoid the 'old Asian master' sterotype, which just put them in hot water for a DIFFERENT reason.

Actually, I'm pretty darn sure it was because China wasn't going to let a movie starring a Tibetan anywhere near their country, and Marvel gets a LOT of moolah from the orient. It was either lose China or make the Ancient One a white chick, so what did you think they were gonna go with? ;)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 15, 2017, 05:50:24 AM
Landmines.... seemingly everywhere.  I mean, I suppose I could have gotten upset about them switching the Ancient One.  Although they didn't just fully "White-Wash" the character. She was specifically made Welsh, not Tibetan. They've changed the character, like they did with Thor's racially different characters).

Honestly, I can understand some of the friction.  But the character is/was a white guy.  I think, if I read right, they had the basis was Kung-Fu from the 70, which wasn't much different.  I think the bigger gripe could be the lack of prominent Asian characters in comics overall.  I mean, as an Black guy myself, I suppose I can count my blessings with the aforementioned Luke Cage with a pretty much all black cast.  Blade had a whole franchise.  Storm has been prominently featured in four X-Men movies.  Nick Fury being the glue in the MCU.  Even DC's shows has Black faces in their shows and even Black Lightning coming out pretty soon too.  Where are the Asian folks?  Grim Hogan?  A few Jubilee cameos?  I mean I suppose Glen Rhee counts, but outside of that... I might be drawing a blank, but where are the prominent Asian characters to even HAVE a in a movie or series?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 15, 2017, 05:56:52 AM
Technically,she was Celtic with a Tibetan motives.Who thought that made sense,I really cant say.
One or two reviews I saw didnt even mention race.It just is a very boring series.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 15, 2017, 02:28:09 PM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on March 15, 2017, 05:50:24 AM
But the character is/was a white guy.

And again, people do not care. They don't care if the comic version is/was a white guy, they care about the TV version being a white guy. Do you really think that most people watching Iron Fist have even read the comics? The most they've done is do a quick google search, and even then, they probably still just know the bare minimum. It doesn't matter to them. They do NOT want a Mighty Whitey, regardless of said Mighty Whitey's origins. It doesn't have that much to do with not getting an Asian in the role. They would probably have been fine if he was black or Native American or South Asian or what have you. The problem is that he's a rich white guy who has become the master of a minority-dominated art, and that is very problematic. You can't just excuse it because that's how it was in the comics, because this isn't the comics. This is an adaptation for a different medium, and sometimes, changes have to be made.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: daglob on March 15, 2017, 02:58:42 PM
Why didn't they just do Shang Chi? They have done him without using the name Fu Manchu in recent years.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 15, 2017, 03:28:52 PM
Im pretty sure that Fu Manchu was in Secret Avengers.Dont think his name was mentioned,but it was fairly obvious.Finer details escape  me because it was a long time ago.
Anyhow,we went thru this several times,so this feels like pissing in the wind at this point,but here is the thing;whole point of Iron Fist is that he is a man who rejected his own culture and embraced a foreign one as his own.
I cant say how the show handles that,but it can be hard to translate.But I can say Im not surprised that majority of net missed the point.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 15, 2017, 03:34:29 PM
That's a good point, Spade.  It is a rather important element of the character.

Kk, is it a real problem, though?  People will certainly treat it as such, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually is.  It does make a difference whether you're dealing with an existing character or a new creation.  To tell a story about Tarzan is one thing, but to create a new 'Mighty Whtiey' protector of Africa is something else.  Folks will certainly take offense at either these days, but for my money, perception isn't reality.  You're right, folks aren't going to know the comics, but I do think that there is some acknowledgement of the difference between adaptation and creation.  It isn't a panacea, but I think folks are more patient with adaptations of existing material.  Whether they are or not, adaptation is a different matter than creation and always brings with it some of the context of its origins.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 15, 2017, 07:03:59 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on March 15, 2017, 03:34:29 PM
That's a good point, Spade.  It is a rather important element of the character.

Kk, is it a real problem, though?  People will certainly treat it as such, but that doesn't necessarily mean it actually is.  It does make a difference whether you're dealing with an existing character or a new creation.  To tell a story about Tarzan is one thing, but to create a new 'Mighty Whtiey' protector of Africa is something else.  Folks will certainly take offense at either these days, but for my money, perception isn't reality.  You're right, folks aren't going to know the comics, but I do think that there is some acknowledgement of the difference between adaptation and creation.  It isn't a panacea, but I think folks are more patient with adaptations of existing material.  Whether they are or not, adaptation is a different matter than creation and always brings with it some of the context of its origins.

You've got a point. But like you said, it isn't a panacea, so even a straight adaptation of this sort of work to be tolerable nowadays needs the best acting, writing, and production values money can buy for people to look past the unfortunate implications. And from what we've been hearing, everything about this is anything but the best.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 15, 2017, 07:50:46 PM
Entirely true, Kk.  Good point.  You can always make exceptions for high quality art, but it's harder to be generous to something that doesn't reach that height.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 17, 2017, 10:11:10 AM
Okay, 2 and a half episodes in and I'm not sure what the bad reviews are for.  I mean it ain't the greatest thing ever but it grabbed my interest.

I mean the only bad thing about it is Ward and Joy Meacham are pretty much Don Junior and Ivanka Trump.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on March 17, 2017, 12:14:18 PM
Im in the 2nd episode myself, and aside from some cringey writing in some parts, its pretty good. No worse than the some of the best of Agents of SHIELD. 
As for the controversy, my SO (who happens to be Asian) said something funny along the lines of "only Asians can be good at kung fu? Isnt that racist?"
To us the most ridiculous thing we saw in the first episode was the generic "Chinatown Lunar New Year party" where extras were just standing there with their hands in the air like NPCs in a video game.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 17, 2017, 12:34:48 PM
Quote from: detourne_me on March 17, 2017, 12:14:18 PM
Im in the 2nd episode myself, and aside from some cringey writing in some parts, its pretty good. No worse than the some of the best of Agents of SHIELD. 
Was that a praise or a complain?Im not sure.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on March 17, 2017, 01:21:11 PM
Oh I like it! Only saw the first two episodes so far, but it's looking like it's gonna pick up a lot.  I wish it was a bit more stylistic like Luke Cage. Cage kinda revelled in the blaxploitation a bit with Cottonmouth's character. I'd like to see Iron Fist take on some more kung fu tropes, but i'm still in the early episodes.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 17, 2017, 02:27:36 PM
Quote from: detourne_me on March 17, 2017, 01:21:11 PM
Oh I like it! Only saw the first two episodes so far, but it's looking like it's gonna pick up a lot.  I wish it was a bit more stylistic like Luke Cage. Cage kinda revelled in the blaxploitation a bit with Cottonmouth's character. I'd like to see Iron Fist take on some more kung fu tropes, but i'm still in the early episodes.

Yeah, it would be great for each show to have its own sorta of sub-genre flavor. :)

Well this is encouraging to hear, guys. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: spydermann93 on March 17, 2017, 04:48:19 PM
I thought each show did have its own sub-genre? Or maybe I'm confusing that for themes.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 17, 2017, 06:35:57 PM
They do, but he was saying that Iron Fist wasn't taking advantage of that.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 18, 2017, 01:55:00 PM
Im guessing that in season 2 Iron Fist takes on...The Reviewers.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: kkhohoho on March 18, 2017, 03:02:01 PM
Quote from: Spade on March 18, 2017, 01:55:00 PM
Im guessing that in season 2 Iron Fist takes on...The Reviewers.

Eh, I don't he'll even bother. It's like Iron Fist himself said; it's not for them. ;)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 18, 2017, 03:23:02 PM
Its for people who like 9-12 hour long origin stories?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on March 18, 2017, 04:36:46 PM
So I've started watching, I'm about 2 episodes in now, and I'm about to start on 3.

Before I start, let me admit some biases from the outset here. I am NOT an Iron Fist fan, and it was easily the show I was looking forward to the least out of any of the Defenders. I don't know the comics, I don't know the character, and I'm sure pretty much everyone here knows my stance on diversity Vs comic book authenticity. That having been said though, I also wasn't bothered by the casting... casting an asian would have been WORSE, and has been pointed out, goes against the character's story of rejecting his own culture to embrace another. So while I was not enthusiastic, I wasn't predisposed against it.

That all having been said: The show really is mediocre. Don't get me wrong, it's fine, and arguably more entertaining than even some of the weaker MCU entries... but that's all I can say about it so far.

Spoiler
The villains have thus far been uneven (the son acts more reasonably but is a total unlikeable arse, the dad just seems... crazy.), and Danny is just... WE know he's actually who he says he is, but I sympathize with everyone around him treating him like a crazy person. He's clearly suffering some form of PTSD, and he fails at "I am your long lost friend" 101 by not mentioning ANYTHING only they would know until episode 2, despite having an opportunity to do so in the FIRST SCENE. He just EXPECTS people to believe him, despite a later scene proving that he did actually think about ways to prove his identity, like fingerprints and dna.

All in all, this is easily the weakest Defenders season. Still good, but this is the same staple of shows that made me begrudgingly appreciate the Punisher, a character I HATE in the comics. I was kind of expecting a bit more from a character I'm lukewarm to.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on March 18, 2017, 08:57:05 PM
And now I've finished it.

So I will say, it does improve a lot as the series continues... but it never really hits home for me.

Spoiler
Even not knowing the comics, the big "reveal" of Harold as the true big bad was not at all surprising. The whole "the arse brother becomes more sympathetic and the sister steps into a villain role in the final moments" was JUST done in Luke Cage, and in so doing failed to be a surprise here. And while Danny does become more likeable, he also continues to make dumb decisions.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 18, 2017, 11:51:56 PM
Quote from: Tomato on March 18, 2017, 08:57:05 PM
And now I've finished it.

So I will say, it does improve a lot as the series continues... but it never really hits home for me.

Spoiler
Even not knowing the comics, the big "reveal" of Harold as the true big bad was not at all surprising. The whole "the arse brother becomes more sympathetic and the sister steps into a villain role in the final moments" was JUST done in Luke Cage, and in so doing failed to be a surprise here. And while Danny does become more likeable, he also continues to make dumb decisions.

I agree and disagree.  Yes, I too think it got better, particularly at the last 2-3 episodes.

Spoiler
I just don't think the characters were as predictable or "cookie-cutter" as some others might have(if that's what you're trying to say).  It's funny, I came in knowing about as much about Iron Fist as you did, so I had no idea who Bakuto was or Colleen or whatever connection they MIGHT have had in the comics and how it would be played here.  So the Hand reveal was, though a little sudden, it was pretty shocking to me.  And the blend of "kung fu treachery" and "corporate scandal" worked well IMO.  It wasn't a typical "greedy businessman" making a deal with a "secret Asian order" I've seen done in plenty of films.  It's like they all were trying to get over on each other and by the end I wasn't sure WHO to trust, who was good and who was bad.  Hell, Meacham was pathologically honest through the entire season.  I mean what kind of big bad villain reveals everything the audience knows to everyone in the show.  I was also thinking Colleen was right that Danny might have been force-fed a truth that might not be as true as we think it was because Bakuto, afterall is enemies with Gao, who I'm pretty sure after two seasons of Daredevil I'm pretty sure is the bad guy. But then SHE turns around to help Danny....

Perhaps it was me, but all the misdirection and "the enemy of my enemy is... still my enemy" was intriguing to me.

Strangely enough, I think the one person who was fairly consistent through the series was Don Jr.(I mean Ward).  I mean he was a jerk from the first episodes.  He was a jerk in the flashbacks.  He was a pill-popping jerk.  Then he became an Oedipus-ian jerk.  Lastly he became a sympathetic jerk.  But still a jerk.

Wasn't sure if I quite understood all of Joy's beef.... or all of Davos' beef either.....  Okay.  Your friend left you.  So why do you want to kill him now?  Okay, your brother lied to you, but so did your dad... So why is it Danny's fault?  Also other questions like we've seen people like Nobu and Harold come back to life after being killed.... but Bakuto can't and Harold's not supposed to all of sudden?

Overall though, wasn't disappointed.  Not nearly as much as I'm reading from critics.  I mean it isn't Luke Cage or Daredevil, two properties I'm much more familiar with on multiple levels.  But is it really bad because it isn't them?(not a direct question to anyone in particular, btw)

But I thought it was good.  I could see a Eastern Cultural theme emerging as the "theme" that each series seemed to have.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Ouflah on March 19, 2017, 02:10:12 AM
Yeah I decided to watch it and so far (finished episode 4) I like it. Has enough cool moments to keep me watching, even though I wish he was wearing the suit while he did the cool stuff.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on March 19, 2017, 03:19:07 AM
Spoiler
It's not so much that it was cookie cutter, as it is that we JUST had a very similar character arc between two siblings in Luke Cage, which was the last Netflix show. Except it made more sense in that show, since the fallout paralleled the relationship between Luke and his own brother. Here it just felt like they had these two characters and they needed to give them an arc. They're not bad arcs, I just feel like they could have been timed a little better is all.

I should mention that for whatever the reviews say, Iron Fist doesn't really dip into "bad" territory like we've seen at points for the other shows. For example, Luke Cage, much as I personally think it's the best of the shows so far... the final confrontation in that show is unquestionably BAD. A good portion of Daredevil season 2 is BAD. But those problematic elements are balanced out by GOOD elements, such as memorable characters, good fight scenes, and even just cool cinematography.

The problem I have with Iron Fist is that it just doesn't have those same highs... For a show about a martial arts superhero, there are very few memorable fights (the gauntlet which gets overshadowed by Madame Gao at the end, and the one with the guardian are the only ones that stuck with me at all, and they're all pretty cookie cutter) nor anything else that stands out in the same way as certain scenes from all 3 of the other series. So while it was engaging and I cannot say it's a BAD series, it's biggest sin is that it's just too middle of the road.

Spoiler
Honestly, I think where this show falls flat for me most is that, ultimately, it fails to deliver on its promise of an overarching theme. Throughout the entire show, lip service is paid to Danny Rand trying to figure out who he is... is he Danny Rand, heir to one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies (I assume that's what they do), is he Iron Fist, destroyer of the hand, or is he the failed guardian of K'un-L'un? Even in the final moments of the series, we didn't get that resolved. As much as we all tilted our heads at Daredevil's original costume, that moment where he fully embraces his identity is a powerful one, and the fact that Iron Fist pays so much lip service to who Danny is supposed to be and fails to deliver resolution is a failure of the series as a whole.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 19, 2017, 05:44:32 AM
I got a feeling everyone is just like: Lets get this over with so we can get to Defenders.
Or is the first season of Punisher next?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 19, 2017, 06:27:02 AM
Lol, it's the Defenders next, but yeah.  Might be.

Tomato,

Quote from: Tomato on March 19, 2017, 03:19:07 AM
Spoiler
It's not so much that it was cookie cutter, as it is that we JUST had a very similar character arc between two siblings in Luke Cage, which was the last Netflix show. Except it made more sense in that show, since the fallout paralleled the relationship between Luke and his own brother. Here it just felt like they had these two characters and they needed to give them an arc. They're not bad arcs, I just feel like they could have been timed a little better is all.

I should mention that for whatever the reviews say, Iron Fist doesn't really dip into "bad" territory like we've seen at points for the other shows. For example, Luke Cage, much as I personally think it's the best of the shows so far... the final confrontation in that show is unquestionably BAD. A good portion of Daredevil season 2 is BAD. But those problematic elements are balanced out by GOOD elements, such as memorable characters, good fight scenes, and even just cool cinematography.

The problem I have with Iron Fist is that it just doesn't have those same highs... For a show about a martial arts superhero, there are very few memorable fights (the gauntlet which gets overshadowed by Madame Gao at the end, and the one with the guardian are the only ones that stuck with me at all, and they're all pretty cookie cutter) nor anything else that stands out in the same way as certain scenes from all 3 of the other series. So while it was engaging and I cannot say it's a BAD series, it's biggest sin is that it's just too middle of the road.

Spoiler
Honestly, I think where this show falls flat for me most is that, ultimately, it fails to deliver on its promise of an overarching theme. Throughout the entire show, lip service is paid to Danny Rand trying to figure out who he is... is he Danny Rand, heir to one of the biggest pharmaceutical companies (I assume that's what they do), is he Iron Fist, destroyer of the hand, or is he the failed guardian of K'un-L'un? Even in the final moments of the series, we didn't get that resolved. As much as we all tilted our heads at Daredevil's original costume, that moment where he fully embraces his identity is a powerful one, and the fact that Iron Fist pays so much lip service to who Danny is supposed to be and fails to deliver resolution is a failure of the series as a whole.

I hear you and I can't disagree with a lot of what you said.  I just think a lot of people(maybe not you) are looking at this and judging it on a scale of something that it isn't or was trying to be.  Like the reviewers who are actually mad that Danny Rand is a white guy.  Like stuff like that I can't take seriously.  Just the same, and maybe less harshly are folks are looking at this and comparing it to DD, JJ and LC and saying if it isn't as good then it's just bad and I don't think that's fair.  You said it right, it's good.  It MIGHT be the weakest of the seasons(honestly, I might have it close to DDS2), but that's like an EXTREMELY high bar though.  I think it held it's own pretty well.

Spoiler
I hear you about the lack of memorable fights.  Like the hallway scene and stairwell scene in DD's seasons were obviously memorable.  I thought Colleen vs Bakuto was pretty good....... Actually as I sit here and think about it I'm trying to remember the "big bad" Danny faced off against at the end of the series and I can't even remember one.  If there was even one.  I think that just scores your point.  That said, overall I wasn't upset at the fighting.  It was well-done and entertaining, IMO.  Though, just like Daredevil, it was also EXTREMELY inconsistent.  If you remember my complaining that Daredevil takes some good shots against some street thugs, but a clan of ninjas he just breezes through.  Here, in the first few episode NOBODY literally lands a hand on Danny, not even Colleen.  He even chides her for letting someone inferior land on her.  But then I'm seeing regular dudes be able to hit him?  Not kung-fu masters, but like the knife-wielder guy that firebombed his X-Rays. 

But like I said, my main thing, what carried the series for me, wasn't just the fighting(which kinda has me walking around the house randomly striking kung-fu poses) but the intrigue between the factions vying against each other.  First it's Danny vs the Meachams.  Then it's Danny vs Ward (and Joy and Harold are on his side).  Then it's Danny vs Gao.  Then it's Gao vs the Meachams.  Then the Bakuto vs Gao.  Then Bakuto vs the Meachams.  Then Bakuto vs Danny.  And then Danny vs the Meachams again(minus Ward this time).  Pretty much the entire second half of the season I'm trying to figure out who is ACTUALLY the bad guy?  Harold's willingness to sacrifice and being upfront with Danny and his children and Bakuto's vendetta against Gao had me fooled.  I thought that was really good.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on March 19, 2017, 03:20:45 PM
Spoiler
I can get behind that. Like I said, the series IS entertaining, and that's one of the biggest reasons why. Where some of the in-fighting with Luke Cage felt forced, I felt like Iron Fist neatly balanced all the different factions well, so nothing ever really got stale. I just wish the series had gone SOMEWHERE with the identity thing, because even in the last shot Danny is questioning whether he should have ever left. The fact that he does not ONCE don the costume or the full identity is a severe letdown when identity is the theme of the series.

As for DD S2 being the weakest... I can agree with that, but I give it a few extra brownie points because it made me give a fruit about Punisher. As I have stated many, many times, I hate everything about the Punisher as a character, but Jon Bernthal's performance was legitimately good and it made me appreciate the character... a bit.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 19, 2017, 03:25:47 PM
I experienced it almost in reverse.I like the Punisher,but Bernthals performance is kinda weird.Its not a bad take,its just a bit off.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Ouflah on March 21, 2017, 03:46:15 AM
Alright, just watched episode 7. No longer really interested in finishing the series...

Kinda crossed the "too disturbing for Ouflah" line. Weirdly abrupt, it previously didn't have anything I considered significantly stomach-turning.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: murs47 on March 21, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
I enjoyed the first couple episodes. But, unfortunately, this series suffers from the same issues as DD and Luke Cage; everyone's so expressive about how their feeling at every possible second. Are they all drunken teenagers? Or, the characters are busy psycho-analyzing whatever character they're currently interacting with; creating lazy attempts at being insightful. Honestly, there was so much unnecessary melodramatics that I'm certain Netflix hired the producers, writers, and directors of All my Children to handle the Marvel titles. I've never rolled my eyes so much. As they say on the other side of the Atlantic: rubbish.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Deaths Jester on March 21, 2017, 08:48:41 PM
Look! A rare Murs sighting!!!!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on March 21, 2017, 09:00:38 PM
I should note most of this post I wrote last Thursday and saved as an unfinished draft, so keep that in mind if some of this seems detached from the current conversation:

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on March 14, 2017, 05:37:29 AM
BTW, not for nothing, you have to admit it's just your opinion that Luke Cage is "easily the weakest" series, when it did score better on RT than the other three.  I don't think that qualifies as "easily".

Yes, that's correct. *I* found it easily the weakest. I'm not saying everyone did. I probably should have added that it's my opinion, but I kinda took it for granted that it was a given. At this point I've kinda learned as a rule of thumb that a lot of things people say online about movies, comics, tv shows, ect, are strictly opinion, even when they say they're not. For whatever it's worth, I know other people (such as the group I was watched it with) who also thought it was the weakest.

Now, If I recall correctly, I never posted my thoughts on Cage (appropriate, since more than reviewer I followed who reviewed the other shows didn't review or even mention Cage) when it came out, but I can tell you why I think it was the weakest. I didn't care about the other characters other than Cage, whereas in DD and JJ I cared about everyone from the very first episode, it had the disadvantage of the audience already knowing Luke Cage from JJ and knowing he was good. The late-in-the-game twist with Diamondback was lame, cliche, and didn't even really seem to add much to the story. And lastly, the antagonists didn't steal the show the way D'nofrio's Kingpin, Tennant's Killgrave and Jon Berenthal's Punisher did. Cottonmouth was ok I guess, but to me he felt like a lesser Kingpin, and he wasn't in the show nearly as long as said prior villains.

And, I imagine I'm might get crap for this, but since discussion of the race angle was Iron Fist is inevitable, I'll just say it: in my opinion, contrary to what CBR will tell you, positive representation should not trump story, character and acting. Is Cage being a example of positive representation a positive? Sure, but I don't think it's enough to make it the best show. I think there's a good chance reviewers scored Cage more positive because of the positive representation. Remember, reviewers gave good reviews.  to Ghostbusters: Answer the Call, which featured the kind of low-brow comedy that 1) usually scores poorly with critics (and decent chunk of the audience, for that matter) and 2) is almost completely out of touch with the comedy styles of the original Ghostbusters

If you disagreed on my assessment of the show, if you liked the more than I did, awesome. You do you. I honestly wasn't trying to urine anyone off, or make it out like my opinion was fact (that's actually a pretty big pet peeve of mine). Not stressing that it was my opinion is on me.

That being said. I should point out, as has been pointed out in the past, that Rotten Tomatoes isn't the be-all-end-all for quality. What they do, as I understand it, is tally up a percentage of positive reviews. The number doesn't tell you how many of those reviews gave a 6/10, 10/10, whatever. I don't know about movie critics, but I know a number of prominent internet video game critics dislike using numbers to score a game because it "doesn't fully represent their thoughts on the game" (something I kinda disagree with myself) and that their audience should make a point to read the actual body of text.

In my opinion, reviews (both industry-level "professional reviews" and internet Youtube-esque reviews alike) are sometimes full of crap. I often enjoy action movies that get weak reviews. I've also heard that many "old guard" film critics aren't superhero fans  per-se, and like to say there's superhero fatigue and say there's too many superhero movies, that the genre's junk food, ect. As Finn Jones said, us fans are probably more likely to be forgiving to the show. Though admittedly, a lot of use haven't liked the recent DC films, so who knows.

It's the fact that Marvel's stuff has consistently got good reviews that makes this so surprising and noteworthy.

QuoteIn all seriousness though, are people seriously being critical of Iron Fist because he's not Asian?  Why would anybody be mad at the show and not Roy Thomas who wrote it?  I mean "Danny Rand" isn't the most Asian of names I've heard of....
Am I missing something?

I said the same thing about Apocalypse being a blasphemous character when X-Men Apocalypse was coming out and I was told "it's the responsibility of the filmmaker to take that stuff out" [for the record, they did in the final film, as I pointed out at the time] I'm not really sure how I feel about such things in general, but I can say that if something was popular enough to endure in the comics, then translating it to the films and tv shows (something Marvel's films and DC's shows have, IMO, done a really great job doing) should be enough. This is why I disagree pretty strongly with the "All of Marvel's movie villains suck except Loki" criticism. The idea that the comic versions of say, Red Skull and Ultron worked great in the comics and cartoons but somehow weren't "good enough" for Hollywood action movies is kinda annoying to me.

QuoteProbably. Aside from most people not knowing who the heck Roy Thomas even is, (shame that,) Iron Fist the TV show isn't Iron Fist the comic, so while it should more or less stay true to its source material to a certain extent, it can also and perhaps is even expected to make some changes for both a new medium and a new decade. What was even then only somewhat acceptable in 1974 isn't so acceptable in 2017, and because of that, they aren't going to let a case of Mighty Whitey fly. It doesn't matter to them whether or not Danny Rand was originally white or who was responsible for making him white, or even that his name isn't Asian.

Yeah, the common audience isn't too concerned with how the comics did it. As for the "not acceptable in 2017" part, I do think it's worthy of some discussion, but some people take that kind of thing too far. I remember IGN being more negative towards the new Tarzan movie because he was played by a white guy, which I found unreasonable, and then in a review of a seemingly innocuous low-budget Pierce Brosnan vehicle that barely anyone's heard of, throwing in a dig at the main character and his family being white as if that's automatically a negative.

On the topic of the name, they could have changed it. That's happened before. The Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon made Ned Leeds Ned Lee. And yes, some people complained about the various changes that show did (not strictly changing the races of characters either).

QuoteThat doesn't really make things better. 'Well, the first six episodes were crap, but if I'm somehow still sticking with it by this point, then maybe the second half is marginally better by comparison.' The point being that as good as the second half may or may not be, you still shouldn't have to wade through six episodes of sludge to get there.

Yes, that's a good point, but I can't 100% agree with it in general. If the characters and story and action really is rotten, then yes. But I've seen that effect work out in the past quite a few times. The Walking Dead tv show is the best example IMO. I hated S5 and the first half of season 6 but everything since then (I'm up to S7ep3) is a lot better.

Now onto my current thoughts: I'm up to the last 3 episodes, so I'm avoiding everything under the spoiler tags, but the show's ok. It's not as good as DD or JJ, it's about roughly on par with LK, which I was expecting. The character I've enjoyed the most is Coleen Wing, which I was expecing since she was the only part of the show I was looking forward to, since I've enjoyed the character in the few comics I've read that featured her and the actress was a pretty good fit. I would have looked forward to Hoon Lee but 1. I forgot he was in the show until he started showing up and 2. He's not in it nearly enough for it to really matter. All I'll say for now is I was ok with the up until the last few episodes where the plot started getting pretty convoluted so now I'm not so sure.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on March 22, 2017, 06:23:54 AM
Quote from: murs47 on March 21, 2017, 08:43:36 PM
But, unfortunately, this series suffers from the same issues as DD and Luke Cage; everyone's so expressive about how their feeling at every possible second. Are they all drunken teenagers? Or, the characters are busy psycho-analyzing whatever character they're currently interacting with; creating lazy attempts at being insightful. Honestly, there was so much unnecessary melodramatics that I'm certain Netflix hired the producers, writers, and directors of All my Children to handle the Marvel titles. I've never rolled my eyes so much. As they say on the other side of the Atlantic: rubbish.
That sums up a lot of my problems with Netflix-verse as well.
There is also the tendency to tell everything rather then show.And the fact they are slow as glaciers.Remember how Daredevil spent 5 episodes lying on the couch?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: murs47 on March 23, 2017, 12:19:03 AM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on March 21, 2017, 08:48:41 PM
Look! A rare Murs sighting!!!!

Look out for my next post mid-2018!

Quote from: Spade on March 22, 2017, 06:23:54 AM
That sums up a lot of my problems with Netflix-verse as well.
There is also the tendency to tell everything rather then show. And the fact they are slow as glaciers. Remember how Daredevil spent 5 episodes lying on the couch?

I suspect the conclusion to the Defenders will be the Hand being talked to death. Thanks Netflix!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 25, 2017, 08:08:20 PM
So there's this...

Apparently by some metrics, Iron Fist is Marvel's second most popular series.

Take it for what it's worth.

http://screenrant.com/iron-fist-marvel-netflix-ratings-viewership/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: GhostMachine on March 27, 2017, 07:13:14 AM
Funny thing about that is - and I've yet to watch the show; the trailer didn't look too hot - is that most reactions I've seen to the show online are that its the drizzling you-know-whats and either needs to be cancelled or get new showrunners.

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on March 27, 2017, 09:48:02 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on March 25, 2017, 08:08:20 PM
So there's this...

Apparently by some metrics, Iron Fist is Marvel's second most popular series.

Take it for what it's worth.

http://screenrant.com/iron-fist-marvel-netflix-ratings-viewership/

Considering that this is the first Marvel Netflix season EVER to have lower ratings than the previous one, that's actually a bad sign.  It's basically just coasting by on the brands recognition, not on any interest people have on that particular series.

It's still redeemable though, ratings wise.  Maybe they'll decide to do a Hulk and just pair the character up with another one for maximum effect.  Maybe have the two form a business or something.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on March 27, 2017, 07:03:15 PM
There was rumors and grapevine bits of news that the writers and showrunners were constantly debating on the direction of Iron Fist. It has become very apparent that each director took their episodes towards the concept they had in mind but left it feeling like a broken up puzzle then a complete vision. There wasn't really a core "we need to make this character the Kung Fu of our Netflix universe as that lone warrior returning home to a world who moved on and enemies could be everywhere" running plot line through every episode and felt reluctant to embrace his origin or the mystical aspects of the Dragon Of The Iron Fist or even what mastering Chi could do to Danny or anyone else who wanted to follow his techniques. I could almost say this show was Season Zero to a Heroes For Hire series just passing on their story problems to The Defenders because The Hand was their prime focus anyway. I was very thrilled when I heard Wu-Tang Clan become involved with the show (mostly the music) but very disappointed that their influence and love for old school kung fu movies didn't flow into the series overall (Hell, Rza got to direct an episode and it was the Drunken Guard episode). I even expected to hear a version of "Kung-Fu Fighting" somewhere just to bring in some old school cheesy music as a theme song since Luke Cage took advantage of the Harlem music scene which energized it during slower moments.

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 28, 2017, 12:30:12 AM
We're on episode three, and we're enjoying it, but the show definitely needs to pick up the pace.  It's too slow.

Like I've said before, this show basically writes itself.  All you have to do is 'Kung Fu in New York.'  How hard is that?  I'd love to see them embrace the aesthetic and themes of classic kung fu movies and the classic show.  That would make this something special.  Perhaps season 2 will pull that off if this season doesn't manage it.

Murs, I'm obviously only a little ways into this one, but I feel like you're way too hard on the other shows.  It sounds like you're describing every show on the CW, and while there can be a bit too much angst on the Netflix shows, it doesn't come close to comparing to the DRAMA of those.  I found DD and, to a lesser extent, LC, to be pretty grounded as far as such things go.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on March 28, 2017, 12:46:53 AM
I'm honestly having a hard time finishing the series... the Meachum plotline is just so odd... also theres a new Season of Grace and Frankie on Netflix and my wife and I enjoy that show quite a bit...and Mass Effect Andromeda has been occupying the rest of my free time! Oh and Wrestlemania is coming up this weekend.... maybe Iron Fist can wait.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on March 28, 2017, 03:32:32 AM
Quote from: detourne_me on March 28, 2017, 12:46:53 AM
I'm honestly having a hard time finishing the series... the Meachum plotline is just so odd... also theres a new Season of Grace and Frankie on Netflix and my wife and I enjoy that show quite a bit...and Mass Effect Andromeda has been occupying the rest of my free time! Oh and Wrestlemania is coming up this weekend.... maybe Iron Fist can wait.

It comes through.  I'd finish it.  Think you'd appreciate it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on March 28, 2017, 03:33:50 AM
I have to say, the Meachums are proving to be much more interesting characters than I anticipated. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Starman on March 30, 2017, 07:09:47 AM
Iron Fist was awful.

As even Finn Jones admitted, he only had a few weeks to work out and train in martial arts before shooting began. That is how rushed this production was. That is why the writing was a hot mess and the dialogue was frequently ridiculous.

The only things remotely enjoyable about Iron Fist was some great acting from the guy who played Davos and some serious charisma from the woman who played Colleen Wing.

It's also worth pointing out that for all the arguing over whether Danny should be white or Asian, the show deliberately kept quiet on the casting of Davos until the last minute. Why? Because comic book Davos is a huge, buff Asian guy and Netflix Davos is a tiny Indian guy ... who is really, really good in the role.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on April 02, 2017, 04:37:59 AM
Hey, everyone how about some Punisher pics!

http://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/jon-bernthal?excludenudity=true&family=editorial&phrase=jon%20bernthal&sort=best#license

They actually ARE filming! (Yay #spadeshappy)

Does this mean, the Defenders is in the can?  Still filming?  Will the Punisher show up in the Defenders?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 02, 2017, 04:44:48 AM
They could be filming at the same time?
On the release,Netflix said next year- after Defenders.Marvel said this year.So probably this year.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on April 02, 2017, 08:10:27 AM
Yeah, Wikipedia's saying this year.  And I heard something a while back that said Defenders was getting a Summer release and Punisher a fall/winter release.  If that were the case, I'd imagine we'd have more release dates than we do now.

And yeah, I suppose they could be filming at the same time(didn't mean to suggest they weren't).  Although I do question whether Marvel is putting on two separate productions at the same time of the same property.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on April 02, 2017, 09:12:00 AM
I would guess Punisher wont show up in The Defenders,in which case having a separate schedule makes sense.But Im not really sure how things work there.
And I think fall/winter release(after Defenders) will probably be the case here.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on April 03, 2017, 03:32:01 AM
Well, there you have it.  Defenders has wrapped.  The Punisher is filming and... Jessica Jones starts filming tomorrow, apparently.

http://www.onlocationvacations.com/2017/04/02/monday-april-3-filming-locations-scandal-ncis-l-chicago-fire-captive-state-divorce-jessica-jones/
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on April 04, 2017, 05:55:33 PM
http://tvweb.com/defenders-netflix-series-teaser-trailer-premiere-date/

Premiere date... and a bit of a teaser.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 04, 2017, 10:17:43 PM
Color me interested.

Also, I feel like Starman is being far too hard on Iron Fist.  It isn't great like Daredevil, or even very good like Luke Cage, but it's a solid enough show.  We're at episode 9 or so, so we're pretty far into it.  There are plenty of weaknesses, but there are also plenty of strengths.  In particular, I'm really impressed by the Meachums' arcs and performances.  It is, unfortunately, a sign of the weakness of parts of Danny's story that they often steal the scene from him, but it's also a sign of their strength as characters and the interest generated by their stories.  In general, the show is certainly below the standard of the other two I've seen, but it's still above most of what's on actual TV. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on April 10, 2017, 03:23:10 AM
Okay, so we've finished it, and here are my thoughts-

Non-spoilery overview: It's entertaining but wildly uneven in just about every way: pacing, tone, quality, and themes.  Nonetheless, it's still pretty fun to watch, and there are enough intriguing mysteries and interesting characters to keep the audience interested even when the story of the Iron Fist himself isn't electrifying.  Unfortunately, that is a problem, as Danny Rand is probably one of the weaker elements.  The guy playing him is serviceable, probably about on par with the fellow playing Luke Cage, but the latter wasn't called upon to do as many challenging things in his performance, so the seams show more for this actor. 

Lady Grey and I both thought that the character himself goes from likeable in the beginning to rather unlikable by the end of the season.  That seems somewhat intentional, but perhaps rather short-sighted for your main character.  In general, it seemed as if they were a little uncertain about what exactly they wanted to do with the Iron Fist, much like Danny himself.  On the plus side, the supporting cast is actually quite good, and the Meachums' stories, despite mostly just being drama with no real action to speak of, are often the strongest points of the episodes.  The action was decent, though not breathtaking in the way that Daredevil often was.  The threats seemed more credible than in Luke Cage, where they really had a hard time challenging the character.  One thing that the reviews were definitely right about is that this show is often guilty of one breaking one of the most important storytelling commandments, 'show, don't tell.'  When we should get a flashback or an interpolated episode, we instead get two characters just sitting and talking.  I have to think that this was at least partially due to budget concerns, but nonetheless, it was a problem.  That is, of course, indicative of the pacing problems, as the show tends to dawdle when it should move briskly and rush when it should stroll.

In general, I'm glad we watched it, and I enjoyed how it expanded the Marvel TV world, though I wish it had done more worldbuilding.  It's better than many shows on regular TV, but not as good as the other Marvel shows I've seen.  I'd probably give it a B- or C+, or in my Minutemen scoring system, 3 Minutemen out of five.

Spoilery Thoughts (In no particular order):
Spoiler
Ward's arc was by far one of my favorite parts of the show.  His descent into near madness, his struggles with the bonko issues he had from the psychological abuse of his father, and his dawning realization of the fact that he was in danger of losing his soul was all great, and the actor did a fantastic job with the part.  I wish we could have gotten a bit more time with him at the end of the show to see where he had ended up.

In the same fashion, Harold's increasing viciousness and instability was really well handled, and there was palpable menace every time he was on the screen after he came back.  That being said, his demise was rather unsatisfying, as he shouldn't really have been that much of a threat to Danny.

The episode in China was rather disappointing and felt like they were trying to serve champagne on a beer budget.  The capture of Gao was quite a letdown and for several episodes we kept thinking, 'she must have a plan; she must have arranged this for some reason!'  The fight with the druken boxer was lots of fun, though!

The footage of the old Iron Fist in action was super cool, and it made me wish we got to see more of that kind of thing in the series.

Bakuto was intriguing and had a wonderfully subtle evil air about him.  He seemed like Satan, sweetly seductive but dangerous, and not just physically, but spiritually as well.  It's a shame he didn't really amount to much.  The show couldn't decide who it wanted its villain to be.  We never really found out exactly what Bakuto was doing, and that is a pretty big oversight.  What's more, he shows up and is mysterious for all of about five seconds before Danny unmasks him as the bad guy. 

Speaking of Bakuto, this show REALLY can't make up its mind about killing.  While I'm 100% onboard with heroes following a no-kill code, it really doesn't make sense for Danny to be so conflicted so quickly.  He has been trained to kill for 15 years.  Methinks that should probably be a bit more effective.  Claire's 'voice of reason' role throughout was great, and her reactions to the other characters' willingness to kill was a fun element that didn't quite pay off because they couldn't figure out where they wanted to go.

Davos was pretty great, and his confrontation with Danny was good, but I have to say, the show rather tends to make you sympathize with him rather than its star.  He's right, Danny totally screwed things up in the hidden city, and there isn't really much of a reason for him to be in New York.  He too probably should have had more space to grow.  I'm sure we'll see him again, though.

The ending was weak.  It felt rushed and clumsy.  The fight in the office was underwhelming, though Danny's 'quake-punch' was neat.  The fight on the roof felt silly after all the amazing things the Iron Fist had done.  The idea that one guy with a gun could give him major problems is a hard sell, and there is a point where he knocks the gun out of Harold's hands, has him completely at his mercy....and just runs away.  Yeesh.  The reveal of Klun Llun being missing was pretty effective, though, if a bit predictable. 

Joy's arc throughout was really good, and you really felt for her right before the finale, as she's alienated both from a brother she can't trust a father who isn't what she thought.  Yet, her sudden willingness to blame Danny at the very end is completely out of left field.  Her conflict with her father existed BECAUSE she was grateful to Danny.  That's a small thing, but it is a major discordant note.

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on April 10, 2017, 05:39:25 AM
I agree with BG quite a bit, and I finally got around to finishing the series last night on a bus ride home. Uneven is probably the most apt word to describe the show. the characters flipflopped so many times, the acting, writing, tone, and plot points all seemed so wishy-washy.

If I were to redo the series, id probably keep a number of the same items, just restructure the show to make more sense. This show shouldve been more like Kill Bill than Arrow. (Heck, even the first two seasons of Arrow pulled a better Kill Bill styled vengeance plot).
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Starman on April 17, 2017, 10:45:35 AM
QuoteIn general, the show is certainly below the standard of the other two I've seen, but it's still above most of what's on actual TV.

You must be watching some rubbish if you think a show you gave a C+ to is "above" most other shows on TV.

I blame Marvel for rushing "Iron Fist" out and Scott Buck, as showrunner, for the dire writing. Good grief, that poor character development and bad dialogue. Not allowing Finn Jones the training to sell Danny Rand as the greatest hand-to-hand fighter in the MCU was almost the least of this show's problems.

Unfortunately, Marvel also tapped Scott Buck as the showrunner for "The Inhumans" ... no doubt because he managed to complete "Iron Fist" on such a tight time-schedule, despite its dire quality.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 08, 2017, 09:27:15 AM
Bit late,but nobody post it,so the CC trailers.Marvel stuff begins around 22 min mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FspUmC2lhOA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FspUmC2lhOA)
Inhumans manage to look ridiculous despite sharing a video with Netflix Deathnote.(Oh and Krypton is happening after all)
Stan Lee narrates the Defenders trailer.Thats a new one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X5PG6kPCVI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_X5PG6kPCVI)
Second part.Defenders tries for an Avengers feel.(Black Lightning sorta feels like a CW version of Luke Cage,btw.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3_GXJvBSw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq3_GXJvBSw)
And the Thor trailer.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Red Fisser on August 18, 2017, 06:50:31 PM
Hey anyone started the defenders yet?
I ve binge-watched my way to the 6th episode and so far its good-
it actually kinda brings to mind of some d&d sessions when everyones so focused on trying their best on rp/adapting to personal characters goals that ends up creating extra party complications to the campaign/common goals
Which can be good as a chance of character development /party bonding(if it doesnt crush it)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on August 18, 2017, 10:10:27 PM
I was able to squeeze episode one into my lunch break, will probably binge the rest after work tonight/tomorrow morning. Mildly spoilery thoughts:

Spoiler
I found it amusing that while we were cutting back and forth between Matt, Jessica, and Luke, establishing what's happened with them all since the end of their respective seasons... every time we cut back to Danny after his first scene, it's just another shot of him in his plane.

Anyway, I got an email about the series having 8 episodes, and I didn't take the time to look during lunch (I was rushing to get a whole episode done, and I'm back at work now) is it 8 or 13? I could believe the former, but previous seasons have been 13 episodes. I'm honestly ok with either, but it'll affect how much I get done.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on August 19, 2017, 04:00:29 AM
It's 8 and I'm a good 5 through.  Some thoughts so far....

Spoiler
Gotta be honest, the first few episodes or so was a lot of build up.  It was well done, but it was it was pretty much the "Epilogue" and wrap for each of the fours first seasons.  Jessica dealing with being a "hero", Luke's return to Harlem, Matt retiring Daredevil and Danny chasing down leads from the Hand.  It wasn't until Luke followed a Harlem kid he's trying to save and Danny getting a lead of a Hand hideout that the two meet in a pretty fun fight and their "getting to know each other" talk was pretty fun too.  Matt and Jessica's meeting was a little lazy IMO.  But by time all of them find their clues to the Midland Circle offices, it was PURE fun and a good watch.  By the 4 episode they were at the restaurant and each of them seem to be in their element. 

So far, I like the filming style and seemingly each time they switch scenes and focus on a different one, the camera has a color filter for each(Red-Matt, Blue-Jessica, Yellow-Luke, Green-Danny) and so far it seems each have been given enough shine and haven't been overshadowed by another.  Danny seems to be the focal point of the show.  Jessica's following a case.  Matt is focused on trying to wake Elektra up.  I suppose the weakest storyline so far is Luke's but where I left off it might be picking up a bit.

But again it's pretty exciting to see each of these characters blend together.  I wondered how Jessica and Luke would fair against ninjas and trained fighters when they're use to using strength.  But I have hope.  Half way through and it seems they're just getting started though.

But I'm about to finish this second half.  It's not bad, but I'm definitely hopeful of it getting better.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 20, 2017, 02:34:49 PM
Sigourney Weaver as Ras Al Ghul.Interesting casting choice.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: stumpy on August 20, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
Quote from: Spade on August 20, 2017, 02:34:49 PMSigourney Weaver as Ras Al Ghul.Interesting casting choice.
LOL. Especially for Marvel!  ;-)

Finished it last night. Generally, it was fun to watch. Parts were a little slow, as they were clearly trying to provide a little bit of introduction for viewers who didn't watch all of the prequel shows. But, there was usually enough plot advancement with each episode that it didn't feel like they were dragging it out to fill eight episodes.

A bit too much of the "I have to sideline my obviously useful allies and take care of this alone" silliness, which, for all I know, is part of some writers' cheat sheet for these shows. That and the following oft-repeated dialog need to go away:

  ALLY or AUTHORITY FIGURE: Please explain why you are covered in blood next to one or more dead bodies.
  HERO: You wouldn't believe me if I told you. <proceeds to explain nothing>

Umm... Hello? You live in a world where mythical beings, super-powered humans, sorcerers, aliens, and so on do battle at a scale that no one could really have missed. Please don't tell me that no one could possibly believe that there's a nefarious group hoping to use dark magic in New York City.

But, that sort of thing was largely used as a plot crutch, which I can mostly forgive. I did generally think that the characters were well written, except that Danny is way too much of a wiener.

Also, I was quite glad that the show answered the major question that might have been left as a cliffhanger at the end.
Spoiler
It would be sort of a joke to pretend that "Is Daredevil actually dead?" is a real question. I was happy to see them skip that and tease us with the "He's alive, so how did he survive?" story that will have to be addressed in the next season of Defenders or Daredevil
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on August 21, 2017, 04:50:30 AM
We just finished episode 3.  We're enjoying it, but it so far hasn't entirely wowed me.  I'm willing to be impressed.

I do have to say this, though.:
Spoiler
Why the HECK did Danny just stroll into the Hand's office and announce that he was coming after them legally rather than, you know, actually doing it?  I cannot think of a single explanation other than "he's intensely stupid."  This does not help the fact that we already sort of don't like him.  In fact, Lady Grey actively hates him and says at least once an episode "Colleen should be the Iron Fist!  She should be the superhero!"  Only my comic purist leanings keep me from agreeing with her.  :P
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 21, 2017, 02:55:45 PM
Quote from: stumpy on August 20, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
LOL. Especially for Marvel!  ;-)
Its harder to find some differences really.
Quote from: stumpy on August 20, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
Umm... Hello? You live in a world where mythical beings, super-powered humans, sorcerers, aliens, and so on do battle at a scale that no one could really have missed. Please don't tell me that no one could possibly believe that there's a nefarious group hoping to use dark magic in New York City.
More like in a adjacent parasitic dimension.Rath to MCU's Dominaria.
But at least they didn't hammer in pointless references to the movies this time,I can respect that.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 21, 2017, 04:50:30 AM
We just finished episode 3.  We're enjoying it, but it so far hasn't entirely wowed me.  I'm willing to be impressed.

I do have to say this, though.:
Spoiler
Why the HECK did Danny just stroll into the Hand's office and announce that he was coming after them legally rather than, you know, actually doing it?  I cannot think of a single explanation other than "he's intensely stupid."  This does not help the fact that we already sort of don't like him.  In fact, Lady Grey actively hates him and says at least once an episode "Colleen should be the Iron Fist!  She should be the superhero!"  Only my comic purist leanings keep me from agreeing with her.  :P
He gets a bit better later on.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Red Fisser on August 22, 2017, 05:20:12 AM
I think the series itself acknowledges that Danny Rand is pretty stupid and immature,in a number of occasions
Spoiler
like when colleen says he is a kid inside, or all those hand founding members who ve met (and perhaps killed?)all the other incarnations of the ironfist calling him the most dumb iron fist ever existed. I think Luke refers to that matter exactly on the handling of the situation in the Hand's office,while he is watching over him.....
My only consolation on his case(beside Colleen Wing) is trying to think of him as the  Michelangelo of the team through Danny=brat X10. Perhaps it would be better if he and Luke would share a series together,I dont know.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on August 23, 2017, 07:23:01 AM
So I just finished it. I thought it was pretty good. Not my favorite of these shows but not bad.

I'll agree with that Ra' Al Ghul joke. I did think of League of Assassins/Shadows during the series.

The earliest episodes did feel like a fair amount of buildup, it actually reminded me of the first half hour or so of the first Avengers movie in that regard. Re introduce the various characters one by one and eventually get them to meet.

I think the key element is that seeing the main cast play off each other was fun. Unfortunately I failed to notice the creative color coding others did (Now I really wish I'd caught that!) but that's a nice touch.

Spoiler
I think for me the biggest downside for the series it that it's a lot of the Hand, and I've not found the hand all that interesting in any of these series. Once we got to the finale with a whole lot of Hand Ninjas, Electra, and a hip hop song during the fight (which, yes, did in fact make me think of the Vanilla Ice in the second live action Ninja Turtles movie) I was kinda zoning in and out.

I was disappointed in that when Stick died, I didn't care more. Though part of the reason why I didn't care more was 1. The show didn't dwell on his death much, and 2) Stick didn't really get to contribute a lot to the show other than deliver exposition (something he did a fair amount of in Daredevil S2. I could have done with more of Stick being a lovably snarky jerk and less being Basil Exposition, but oh well. I kinda think if the show had a few more episodes, they could have gotten more mileage out of him and thus made his departure carry more weight. It felt like an attempt to replicate Agent Coulson's death in the first Avengers film

Sigourney Weaver was....pretty good, but I still feel that, like Luke Cage and Iron Fist, this series suffered somewhat from the lack of a scene-stealing villain like Daredevil and Jessica Jones had. I did find amusement in one or two scenes that reminded me of Ghostbusters (namely the submerged car after the earthquake, and people taking about a big hole in the middle of New York). Those could very well be pure coincidences, but I like to think they're GB references.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on August 24, 2017, 08:34:59 AM
Having finished it...it was okay.
In theory,Hand should be interesting(being a ninja death cult),but in reality they are a ninja death cult and that's not very interesting.If that makes sense.The most threatening member of the Hand is the guy tied to a chair.Anyway,
Spoiler
we should be going Handless
from now on,and all the better for it.
8 episodes instead of 13 should have helped with the pacing,but it doesn't.Im okay with the spontaneous build up to the actual team up,but then episodes 5-7 end up being a long sting of conversation along the lines of:
-I got to go save the world
-But Im worried...

We didn't really need all the satellite characters from the previous shows.Whenever Misty Knight shows up to deliver stock NYPD dialogue,you can sense the molecules of the show stopped moving.But,
Spoiler
she lost her arm,
so at least that opens some possibilities in the future.
They really need Bullseye in season 3 of Daredevil.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on August 24, 2017, 03:21:38 PM
I actually heard an interesting theory on how Bullseye could be worked in based on a scene from the final episode and how season 2 left Kingpin.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on August 27, 2017, 07:29:45 AM
Silver Shocker, about Sigourney Weaver references, did you catch the one in i think the first or second episode when she went to the hospital? She made a kind of pose against the glass that reminded me of Aliens... or was it me remembering Sarah Connor in T2 with a pose like that?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on September 01, 2017, 06:58:35 AM
In case anyone got to the end of The Defenders and were left a little curious...

Spoiler
Luke Cage, Season 2 is apparently in production....
(http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/luke-cage-season-2-simone-missick-mike-colter.jpg)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on September 01, 2017, 12:09:43 PM
Nice! Can't wait.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: stumpy on September 02, 2017, 02:42:40 PM
Ah, the long, mechanical, arm of the law. ;-)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on September 03, 2017, 01:55:37 PM
I was surprised that they got one realistic detail right.  Namely, that little patch with the wire on her should.  That's how real bionic arms actually work.  Somebody did some research.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on October 21, 2017, 05:47:12 PM
Is Punisher delayed or something?Im hearing a lot about that,but cant find anything solid.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: crimsonquill on October 21, 2017, 07:35:52 PM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on October 21, 2017, 05:47:12 PM
Is Punisher delayed or something?Im hearing a lot about that,but cant find anything solid.

The final Punisher trailer was just released a few days ago.. official Netflix release date is November 17th, 2017. :D

Plans were for an earlier release during the New York Comic Con but the tragedy in Las Vegas had Marvel/Netflix delay it and replan how they would promote it (since they wouldn't have a comic con cast panel).

- CQ
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on October 22, 2017, 06:15:03 AM
Yeah,thats why I was asking.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on November 17, 2017, 05:26:41 PM
Punisher seems to be going for a slow psychological drama.Also,everyone has a habit of expositing their stances on various topics.
Im guessing "they want to take our guns" guy is forshadowing something.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 17, 2017, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on November 17, 2017, 05:26:41 PM
Punisher seems to be going for a slow psychological drama.Also,everyone has a habit of expositing their stances on various topics.
Im guessing "they want to take our guns" guy is forshadowing something.

Yeah I'm an episode in and I thought that was a little odd...

Spoiler
Homegirl was like "your father is a devout man but he knows the problems in his religion." And I'm like okay how is that relevant to the Punisher?

I mean Id mind less if it was in context but so far it just seems like the script want to just make it more topical than it needs to be.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: stumpy on November 18, 2017, 08:00:41 AM
Quote from: HarryTrotter on November 17, 2017, 05:26:41 PMAlso,everyone has a habit of expositing their stances on various topics.
I haven't started the show yet, but that has me pre-cringing.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on November 18, 2017, 10:44:49 AM
First episode has a very speed-dating system of introducing new characters where they just come in an make a speech that spells out who they are.Ah,I get it,this is the tough,not-really-PC police captain. :)
It feels a bit forced.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 20, 2017, 07:34:24 PM
Okay, I finished The Punisher earlier this moring and I gotta be honest, this is probably top 3 MCU/Nerflix shows.  Personally I liked it more than all save for Luke Cage.  As it holds up as a series, it's up there with Daredevil's first season and Luke Cage, rivaling Jessica Jones.  Thought it was a strong entry that had a good narrative but certain parts of the character and unfortunately personal agendas stop it from being better.

Spoiler

POSITIVES:
The Punisher was THE PUNISHER  I gotta be honest, I was not a fan of how the character was portrayed in Daredevil.  Not only did they make the character all about "vengeance" instead of punishment(more on that later).  More than that though, Berenthal played him almost maniacal.  Which isn't what I know the Punisher to be.  The Punisher's family was killed in a crossfire and he's out to punish ALL criminals and he does that extremely efficiently. And he can't be as efficient if he's running around like a crazy person.  The best example of this was the rooftop scene in Daredevil.  The scene as it was in the comics, very similar but Frank was in control, calm and gave Daredevil a simple choice with his eyes in a scope.  "You kill me or I kill him."  But in Daredevil, Frank was yelling and intense and damn near psychotic.  That's not the Punisher.  In this series, Frank was MUCH more in control, more human.  And more realistic IMO.  Worked a lot better for me here.  Moreover, there's been a lot said about the level of violence but I actually thought it was fully appropriate to the character. Some of it might have been over the top, like what he did to Rawlins but much of it was in-character.  He's the freaking PUNISHER. He should be punishing bad guys and doing it graphically.  THAT'S who he is. I'm glad they had that.

Punisher's relationships This was also one of my favorite parts of the series.  Punisher not only seemed more relatable and familiar with the way he was with certain characters, but the writing with it made the series stronger IMO.  Most notably his scenes with Micro.  They were a lot of fun and the dynamic between the two held up.  Also his scenes with Curtis were also good.  Also, Jason Moore himself did a good job with the character.

It was pretty topical Yes, we can(and I'm sure we will(more on this later)) debate how these issues were used, but honestly I think it's hard to have a show like this and NOT talk about these issues, domestic terrorism, gun violence, that kind of thing.  Even more extended to veteran issues and mental health(and how that relates to gun violence and terrorism).  I think the show handled that aspect well.  I'm not a veteran, though I have worked a lot with them, plus my dad spent his career working with veterans and helping them, not very much unlike what Curtis was doing(though my father helped them a lot more clinically/administratively).  So i understood how veterans can see this series and how it handles returning from war.  But overall, I'm a political guy.  I work in politics.  Many of these characters were born out of social and political themes.  So I'm glad to see them just to keep the debate alive, but at the same time I think they were being preachy without actually taking a side... if that make sense.  Like Lewis was the stand up guy defending the 2nd Amendment and individual freedoms, but he had Frank as a counterweight to the terrorist he actually was.  You had Senator Ori with strong gun control points and facts balanced with Karen's real life ordeal.  So I think it was a good balance.

NEGATIVES:
It was TOO topical I know I just said I liked the fact they delved into political issues, but in many parts it seemed really forced.  Like with Dinah's parents.  As a matter of fact Dinah's entire background was pretty immaterial.  She could have been black, latino, Asian and the character would have still worked.  But with her parents, they seemed only to serve as a device to talk about Islam... which again absolutely immaterial to the entire show.  And then O'Conner, who I suppose I get, but he was pretty over the top... and not too consistent either.  I dunno, I just think he could have been better handled than he was.  So, while I liked the fact it was topical, in some cases they kind of dialed up the politics way too much to a level of seeming kinda slapsticky. In some aspects I even wish they went the Daredevil/Avengers route and made social/political issues but made them comic centric.  IRL we don't talk about anti-vigilante laws. But they made it a thing in the series and it made sense. It was safe in that way.

He is not The Revenger Again, they did this last season and it drives me up a wall.  I mean, I did like the storyline and it played out well, but they was dead set on taking away what makes the Punisher THE PUNISHER.  His family was killed in a gangland crossfire.  He couldn't get his revenge so he was going to punish ALL criminals.  But for half of Daredevil and this season his entire focus was getting revenge for his fsmily.  From beginning to end.  In the first few minutes when he was tracking down the gangs and killing them, he finished and thought he was done and retired.  Even at the end when he killed Rawlins and got Russo, he again, stopped.  The series actually ended with him saying for the first time in a while he doesn't have a war to fight.  Which is true because they made the Punisher all about revenge.  And that's not what he is.  He's a reaction to what Americans were seeing in the 70s.  A homicide rate that was just getting higher and higher. Gun violence that was just way out of control.  America was going to Hell in a handbasket... and he was the handbasket.  This isn't a political point, but more of a philosophical point. That's the world he lives in.  He can't stop punishing because the world is a dark place and it won't get better, so he just keeps going.  That's what makes the character.  But they changed that dynamic.

More MCU connection This might be a minor gripe, but I would have really liked to have seen or heard more of a bigger connection to the MCU.  I know this had Karen Page and Brett, as well as Turk getting his butt kicked again(love the fact it's kind of a running theme in all the shows).  But beyond that there was no connection or mention to the films or even other Netflix characters. In the other these aspects rather played a role("the incident") or at least mentioned.  Here it was pretty much secular to what was going on in the show.  No mention of vigilantes or other heroes or anything.



Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on November 21, 2017, 11:23:10 AM
You would assume there are enough topics to work with in the material without adding a few more...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on November 29, 2017, 04:03:37 PM
So I did finish this a week or so ago, and I quite enjoyed it. It's the Netflix MCU show I've enjoyed the most since Daredevil and JJ (not even the Defenders hit those highs for me). I Thought Berenthal was great but I thought he was great in DD so that wasn't a huge surprise. I thought story wise it was a pretty well handled starring feature story for this version of the character. Yes it was very topical but considering Punisher was introduced as a more shellshocked vet version of the character I felt it was appropriate and made sense, even if some of it was a little clunky. A lot of it was buildup, so you didn't always see Punisher action but when you did, the violence was glorious.

Spoiler
The show's homage to Jigsaw at the end was awesomely brutal, one of the most wince-inducing things I've seen in a show/movie/ect, in a long time, and considering Frank pulled a Mountain-from-Game-Of-Thrones on Rawlins an episode or 2 earlier and I get grossed out easily by eye violence, that's saying something.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Red Fisser on November 29, 2017, 05:15:10 PM
I finished the punisher a few days ago too, but my feelings are mixed up(which was not the case on daredevil s1,or jessica jones as I BINGEWATCH those furiously without second thought)I definitely disagree on the imdb review that sets it above all the rest mcu/netflix shows.
I am not against the way his origin was handled. I think it serves for a more grounded(and political) approach of the character, without changing his bases dramatically, overall fits the mcu/netflix background,though I d like more of it.
I am definitely on with the self-blame part due to the origin changes.
I am a bit mixed about the overall pacing, and the punisher switch that goes on and off trough the series.
I like the newly introduced characters, I enjoyed micro and his background+chemistry with Frank and I want to see more of Dinah and where that goes(hopefully on daredevil or sooner on jessica jones) while I liked the use of the old(I think Karen was spot on) too.
Enjoyed the villains and where that goes even if some origins where changed, I think it was well handed.
MAJOR LETDOWN for me was the aesthetic aspect of the series, overall and most basically on the music part.
I am not an enemy of blues or anything, and I enjoyed seeing Castle knowing how to handle a guitar(or a book :P )
BUT when it comes to the punisher I expect some epic dramatic opera, a menacing hymn to vengeance and nothing less.
I think that was done better on the past portrayals of the character in the movies
and that was done perfect on (the full of respect to the source material) video game, which has a terrific soundtrack that just caches the essence of the Punisher !!!(if you havent heared it you should check it out on you tube)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 29, 2017, 05:31:52 PM
Yeah I saw a lot of reviews giving Amber Rose Revah a bad rep.  I though Dinah was a good character. An interesting add and a good storyline.  At least IMO.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: detourne_me on December 04, 2017, 01:11:45 PM
Honestly, I'm struggling to finish The Punisher.  It's better than Iron Fist, but that's about it.
Spoiler
He's not the Punisher.
He is not proactively going after criminals at all. The only people he actually kills are vets that work for a security company that think they are serving the greater good going after a terrorist.

There were about 3 good episodes, but the majority have MAJOR pacing issues.

I dunno... I figured he had a good enough introduction in Daredevil Season 2, we could've just gone straight into Punisher action, instead of waiting 11 episodes before he dons the skull.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on December 04, 2017, 06:49:50 PM
Eh,maybe in season 3...
I still havent finished it,but so far,its a mixed bag.More 24 then Punisher,tbh.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on December 20, 2017, 07:51:35 PM
In the end,like a lot of comic adaptations in recent times,its just so generic I cant have any feelings about it.Im not sure why its even called Punisher,you could scrape off the name and call it anything you like,its just that bland.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 23, 2018, 04:34:47 AM
So I had a slow day at work today, so I started watching Luke Cage season 2. Now, I'm gonna be honest... despite loving the first season (despite its flaws, of which there were MANY) I wasn't really looking forward to it. The last four netflix Marvel series were... not great. Jessica Jones was mediocre at best. Between my indifference to the character and the mediocre reviews, didn't bother with Punisher. Defenders was disappointing. Iron Fist... HO BOY Iron Fist. But again, nothing better to do, so I started watching.

In short: It's better than season 1. Anyone who's felt, like me, that the Netflix series haven't been living up to the standard of what came before, Luke Cage season 2 delivers in a way that I haven't seen since Jessica Jones season 1.

Spoiler
Plus it has a guest appearance by Iron Fist... where he's actually a likeable character! I know, what a concept right? Hopefully that bodes well for a season 2/further team ups down the line.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 23, 2018, 11:09:48 PM
I'm only two episodes into Cage season 2, but I will say I also wasn't that impressed with Jessica Jones season 2. I found it a big step down from season 1.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 24, 2018, 01:42:19 AM
On JJ Season 2:

Spoiler
To be fair to the series, I don't think it was BAD in the same way I can point to Iron Fist S1 or Half of Daredevil Season 2 as bad. It's biggest problem is that... it doesn't ever reach for the heights season 1 did. Much of that has to do with the much weaker villain, who isn't as interesting or even sympathetic as Tennant's Kilgrave... and when I can honestly say Jessica's mom is less sympathetic than KILGRAVE, there is a problem in the narrative structure.

And that also leads to another problem with season 2... I'm gonna be vague given the board's rules, but given the nature of the series villain it makes sense that season 1 had an almost over-reliance on adult imagery... yes it was absolutely played for cheap excitation and as such the scenes go on way too long (I skip through them all) but it made a certain sense given the subject matter. Season 2, though, is all about family, and yet it keeps up the same focus and emphasis on adult imagery. The resulting juxtaposition, unintended though it may be, is... rather off putting in the context of the narrative.

That said... I do like where the series ended up, just not what it took to get there.

On Luke Cage S2:

Spoiler
Having finished the entire thing, I can honestly put it up there with the best of previous Neflix series. Where I feel season 1 had a big problem with the villains (we subbed out Cottonmouth halfway into the series for Diamondback despite the latter being a much weaker villain with the same obsession with Luke we'd already cultivated in Cottonmouth) season 2 does a much better job balancing the opposing forces of Mariah and Bushmaster. The narrative weaved the character arcs together much more seamlessly than I've seen the Netflix series do since the first Daredevil series, and I was genuinely surprised by the direction Luke took by the end of the series.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 24, 2018, 05:41:44 AM
Surprised?  Yeah that's a way of putting it.

So, I just finished LC2, but before that I'll add a word about JJ2.

Spoiler
I don't know why but I'm kinda the opposite of Tomato here and I pretty much enjoyed each of the seasons Netflix have produced for Marvel.  Call me a sucker, I dunno.
I get wrapped in the story lines and characters and just enjoy getting into it I suppose.  But I can see what you mean in regards to some of the problems.  Particularly for JJ2.  I think the biggest difference(or flaw, whatever) is the tone is so much different than JJ1.  It was more personal... less mystery if you will.  I don't think folk were that interested on that side of Jessica, but more of her superdetective drunk side.  That's her speed.  Perhaps we didn't get enough of that.

And as for LC2...
Spoiler
Yeah, didn't see the end playing out like that.  Had to watch the entire last episode again just to make sure I got it all right.  I mean it's good to see Luke taking on a bit of a leadership role, at least that's the way I'll take it.  And I'm taking it by calling himself "sheriff he tries to differentiate himself, but wearing the suits, giving the orders, dismissing Claire... that's some gangsta ish, and I don't mean that as just a figure of speech.

Overall, I did enjoy the season.  I have the say the tone that I thoroughly enjoyed from season 1, now it's just taken for granted.  It's not as "fresh" IMO.The cameos and in- and out-of-universe reference were all pretty nice.  Got a good laugh out of "make Harlem great again" line.  Really enjoyed ESPN's resident blerds, Michael Smith and Jamale Hill showing up with NY Jets coach Todd Bowles during the workout. Additionally, speaking of JJ2, LC2 made waaaaay more references to the Defenders and other shows than JJ2 did altogether.  I'm not even sure if it was at all referenced in JJ2.  Here, Luke talked about it, Foggy talked about it, Claire talked about it, Misty and Colleen HAD to talk about it (arms away!).  And of course the Luke Cage and Iron Fist team up was by FAR my favorite part of the season.  I think those kind of blends actually help these series.  It widens the scope.  It's what we all want to see, other characters showing up in other characters stories, like it goes in the comics.  I'm glad to have seen it.

And a word on some of the characters, good lord you gotta imagine Alfre Woodard enjoyed the heck out of playing Mariah.  She was almost as over the top and raw as Ali was with Cottonmouth.  I was glad to see Thomas Jones get more time with Comanche this season and to see his bond with Rossi/Shades gave his character much more depth.
He was actually likeable and motivated by other things than just being a common criminal. I'm almost sure they set it up for Tilda Johnson and Izquerda to have larger parts in season 3 as antagonist. At least I hope Sciora comes back.  Lastly, I really enjoyed Bushmaster.  Shakir did a wonderful job and reading a bit about him, I'm glad he got the opportunity to do so. He had motivation that was not just singular focused like Diamondback.  His powers didn't seem gimmicky which made his fights with Luke more dynamic and believeable. Of course I didn't enjoy him as much as Cottonmouth(who is still probably the biggest sore spot this series will have unfortunately) but he was a good foil. Overall good though.  But man am I glad I had the subtitles on, Jamaicans make it seem like the Irish speak the Queens English! Oy!

(But I'll bet $100 I'll walk into the office on Monday randomly asking "Wagawn?" Lol)

Like I said, overall I liked it.  Seemed better put together and less split-focused that. The first season.  But again, what I really, really liked about the show, I pretty much saw it in season 1, which makes this less of a... surprise, I guess you can say.  But good though.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 24, 2018, 06:23:49 AM
For me it really was mostly just that the main plot/antagonist in JJ2 didn't hold my interest much, not like Killgrave. Mind you you'd need someone really captivating to match or top David Tennant, but still...
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 24, 2018, 06:42:30 AM
JJ S2's biggest sin is that it's just... ok. Again, I don't think it's bad... elements of it don't sit well with me (I stated my biggest issue in the spoilers) but it was still worth the time it took to watch, and I'm interested in seeing where things go from there.

As for the others... I'm excited for Iron Fist S2 now (assuming we get THIS Danny and not the "Who am I?" Danny we had last season) which is the character I was most frustrated with before. Punisher... I'm sorry, I know people like him, but that character will NEVER be my cup of tea, no matter how well he's written. I don't mind him in other series, but I am not going to watch anything with him as the main character.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 24, 2018, 07:53:36 PM
Just out of curiosity, what did you think of the Danny/Iron Fist from the Defenders, Tomato?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on June 25, 2018, 04:54:10 AM
On Defenders

Spoiler
I think it's the same Danny we saw in Iron Fist. He's a whiny, self doubting child who reacts with unreasoning anger that everyone wants to keep him safe (How DARE everyone want to keep me protected if I'm the key to the villain's evil plan! You should be throwing me at the hand instead, that'll show them!) and who every other character treats like an idiot the entire series. His best stuff is with Cage, but even that's marred by some weak motivations and boneheaded attitude on Danny's part. Having just re-watched Defenders again, there's a spot where they're tormenting one of the Hand elders and they're like "He was trained in Kun-lun he won't break"... and I'm looking at Danny sideways because later on he breaks within like 10 minutes of being with the hand and uses the Iron Fist.

Side note, I'm still SUPER bitter he wasn't wearing the bandanna in that final scene. It doesn't even have to be yellow, just have him wear SOMETHING akin to what Matt was wearing in both DD Season 1 and the fight in the Rand office building. It'd make sense for his arc of following in DD's footsteps, it'd work for transitioning him to be more like his comic counterpart, and it would have made that scene more powerful than just him in a track suit. It also would have made a FAR better figure than his hobo clothes which is what we're getting for the Defenders SDCC pack and I am livid.

On Luke Cage season 2:

Spoiler
He's calm, reasonable, collected, and much more in line with the seasoned master the Iron Fist is supposed to be. He's still got character flaws... he's blind to how much privilege he has, and how much power his money gives him, but he's also a more calm and collected individual who helps steer Luke away from his own anger. THAT is what I expect from someone who spent most of his life learning discipline and studying martial arts... A bit ignorant of the real world, sure, but still a spiritual man who's trying his best to do the right thing. I want to see THIS Danny for season 2 of Iron Fist... not the spoiled angsty teenager of Defenders.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 25, 2018, 06:38:35 AM
Hm.  Thanks.

Spoiler
And yeah, I agree.  How hard could it have been for him to LITERALLY take Matt's old costume, make some alterations and use it?  I mean I get them wanting to avoid costumes, but I'm sure having a billionaire walking around kicking people's butts gotta be something you want the media to avoid getting a wuff of, so yeah put on a mask.  And same for Luke too.  If Danny can buy Misty a bionic arm, I'm sure he can buy Luke a piercing resistant yellow muscle shirt... instead of wearing bullet riddled hoodies all the time.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on July 04, 2018, 09:29:20 AM
Meant to post my thoughts now that finished the season, but sum it up quick I quite enjoyed this season of Luke Cage and I agree that it was an improvement on season 1. To reiterate stuff that was already said here, Iron Fist was a lot more fun in this than in past appearances (the moment he stepped onto the scene he felt like a completely different character from before, in a good way), Mariah was used very well, Bushmaster was indeed a very cool antagonist, and the ending was very intriguing and does have me curious to see where they would go in a future installment.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on July 30, 2018, 07:51:35 AM
Here's a new teaser for Iron Fist S2 a lot of you are going to want to see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu5FAWnFRI0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu5FAWnFRI0)

Spoiler
Well, we're finally getting it, Iron Fist in his friggin' mask...and it looks cheesy as hell! Hope everyone's happy with it. Maybe it'll appear later on in a better, less cheesy form. Worked for Cap!

Otherwise, it looks like we're getting a lot more of K'un L'unn, which is great, because its VERY limited presence in S1 was one of the shortcomings of the show, and I really hope it's means more Hoon Lee because him playing Splinter for about 2 minutes total screentime was no joke one of the better things in the show.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: daglob on July 30, 2018, 04:36:09 PM
I saw an announcement for Iron Fist blaring the fact that he now has his "goofy looking" mask (which is a lie, he doesn't look a bit like Goofy).
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on August 02, 2018, 01:07:10 AM
Hahahahaha!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on August 03, 2018, 02:22:57 PM
Are you laughing at the mask, what I said, or what Daglob said?

I guess I was right, Finn Jones said in an interview that there will indeed be multiple versions of the mask. No big surprise there, but I'm still glad to hear it.

QuoteI saw an announcement for Iron Fist blaring the fact that he now has his "goofy looking" mask

Well, they gotta get their clickbait ad revenue somehow.... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 24, 2018, 01:33:31 AM
So, who's watching Iron Fist?

We're most of the way through Iron Fist, and it may be true that it's better than the first season, but I'm not actually sure about that.  As weird and weak as the first season was, some of its story lines, like the Meachum family nightmare, were pretty darn interesting. 

Here are some non-spoilery, general thoughts, but avoid them if you don't want to know even general info about the season.

This season is probably better over all, but it lacks some of the more compelling moments of the first season.  Colleen continues to be the best thing about the show, especially when teamed with with Misty, and, sadly, Danny continues to be the worst.  The show just grinds to a screech halt whenever he's on screen.  Despite promises of a lighter, more centered take on the character, he's still super emo and, while not as whiny, is just not that interesting or likeable.  In contrast, the episode with Misty and Colleen investigating and kicking backside is probably the best in either season, just fun and exciting, and compelling.  They really need to give those two a show together.  Ward has gotten some great moments, and he continues to be one of the show's strengths.  The newly introduced Walker is pretty interesting as well, a pleasant surprise, especially given the mess that was the attempt at mystery that came with her first few appearances.  Joy, for her part, is doing a good job with the material they give her, but her motivations are WAY too weak to justify her role.

We'll see it through to the end, but I'm not overly impressed with their new direction.  It's still overly serious and overly angsty.  And my goodness, the first four or so episodes are just PAINFULLY slow!  Someone needs to go through their scripts with a machete and tighten things up dramatically.  I'd love to see a brighter, livelier approach to this character.  I know he's standing in for Daredevil, but that doesn't mean he needs the same tone.....'cause he can't pull it off!  :lol:
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on September 25, 2018, 12:26:05 AM
I have finished the second season and... Well, your criticism is VALID, but the last couple episodes throw a twist in there that kind of explains WHY those things are happening. Keeping this bit in spoilers, read at your own risk.

Spoiler
So what makes the series make sense is that the titular Iron Fist of season 2 is not Danny, it's Colleen. SHE is the main character of this season, with Danny being more of a supporting character to her story. After a bit of hot potato with the fist transferred to Davos and then the group trying to transfer it back to Danny, ultimately Danny decides to give the power to Colleen instead. SHE is the Iron Fist to ultimately beat Davos. SHE ends up being the one to bring peace back to the streets. And her search into her past leads into Danny's discovery that her ancestor was one of the first Iron Fists.

There's actually a bit of cool foreshadowing right before the twist happens to. There's a whole juxtaposition between Steel Serpent training his students and Colleen retraining Danny (he gets his leg broken and has to quickly get himself back into fighting shape)... you're meant to think the parallel is Danny learning and Davos teaching, but the real parallel is both Davos and Colleen teaching.

And lest you think Danny kind of gets the shaft here... and yes he does, but it's revealed that he CAN still use the Iron Fist... somehow. It's only in the post-series scene, but he does still have the power. And if nothing else, that stinger with Danny and Ward having adventures out in the world would be enough to bring me back for a season 3.

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on September 25, 2018, 01:20:43 AM
I think we're an episode or so from the end, and while I haven't read your spoilers, I think I can see what is coming...and I don't think I'm going to like it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on September 25, 2018, 01:55:57 AM
I did see it back when it came out but didn't feel up to posting my thoughts here since nobody else was talking about it. It was ok, but I gotta admit I was seriously zoning out during the second half or so. Though I'll admit, the ending did intrigue me. I agree with Benton, Coleen is still the best character, her teaming up with Misty was great, and Ward is still one of the better components of the show. I'd meant to bring him up when season 1 came out actually, Benton, I remember you saying back then that you found the actor compelling. Well, funny that you would say that, because just before IF S1 came out I'd watched a cable show called Banshee with some of my buddies (very good show, but you'd probably not care for it - it's incredibly edgy and lurid) and Ward's actor played a character on it and he was quite compelling in that too - one of the best characters really. So I thought it was neat he popped up in this to elevate the proceedings.

Spoiler
As for Coleen's mother, funny, just a bit before this came out, I had read a Shadowland mini starring her, Daughters of the Shadow, and it dwelt with her mother's backstory and it this was somewhat similar to it. This seemed like a loose adaptation of that.

Also, am I the only one who got a Boondock Saints/Sanctuary vibe from that final scene with Ward and Danny? Not gonna lie, the glowing guns got a big laugh out of me, in the so-bad-it's-good way!  :D  [EDIT: I meant to say "Supernatural" but for some reason I called it "Sanctuary" (and spelled "Sanctuary" wrong. Oh well.]
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on September 25, 2018, 06:32:39 PM
I meant to mention this earlier, but Mary Walker is loosely based on Typhoid Mary.

Spoiler
The personalities we see don't match what little I've seen of the comic character, but there's a big tease of a third alt that I suspect is more in the serial killer vein like in the comics.

I would say this season is better than the previous one, if for no reason other than it actually having themes and ideas present throughout. I will say, I don't nescessarily agree that Danny was the worst element... He's not great, but any scene with Ward was great, I love their chemistry. Personally, Davos frustrated me more... When I feel there's more believable acting coming from the teenager subbing in, that's not great. And don't get me wrong, the potential is there... I just feel whoever directed him was telling him to play a block of wood.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 20, 2018, 03:08:44 AM
THEY'VE CANCELLED LUKE CAGE!?!

I mean, I get Iron Fist, I heard about it, but LUKE CAGE too?! I can only imagine this is being done HOPEFULLY for a Heroes for Hire series on Google Play, but dagnabbit, I couldn't have seen this coming at all!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on October 20, 2018, 08:59:03 AM
I was surprised too. We were outright told the Marvel Netflix shows weren't going anywhere, but apparently that just meant the existing seasons would not be removed from Neflix. This may or may not be another extension of what I've been calling the Disney Purge. I.e. Remove all Disney content from the world that isn't on a Disney channel or streaming platform.

Shame too because, as has been said already, including by me, LC S2 was actually really damn good. And I say that as someone who didn't really dig S1. And it left off on a super intriguing sequel hook.

Maybe they'll be a Heroes for Hire series or something.

Anyway, not to get too distracted by bummer of an announcement....

Daredevil S3 came out. I started watching it with some peoples and I'm about episode 8 or so. Daredevil's still pretty great. Critics have saying it's not only the best season of DD, but the best Marvel Netflix show yet. I'm not sure about that, but it's probably better than DS2.

Spoiler
Naturally, with the Hand and Electra spun off into Iron Fist and Defenders, and Punisher spun off into his own show, this season of Daredevil is ALL about the Kingpin. Well, and a fairly extensively reimagined version of Bullseye, who is really good but is starting to highlight a repetitive motif in these shows, the "Suppressed Psychopath Villain Subplot" (see also, Nuke from JJS1, Punisher from DDS2, that one army vet guy from Punisher, and Typhoid Mary in Iron Fist.) They really do do it in almost every show! In other news, the FBI comes off as incredibly stupid in this show as they attempt to cut a deal with the Kingpin and get IMMEDIATELY played by him. Repeatedly!



Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on October 20, 2018, 05:14:40 PM
Wow...that is really surprising.  IF being cancelled is certainly understandable because it was just not good (though they seem to have cancelled it when it was just getting interesting!).  But why in the world would they cancel LC?  It was actually pretty darn good.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 20, 2018, 09:39:26 PM
I am now wondering if we're going to see all the various Marvel shows get cancelled one by one, to let Disney keep all future shows exclusive to it own streaming service.

Amusingly, the breaking up of streaming television into multiple paid channels is causing tv pirating, which had nearly gone away to make a recent resurgence.  These people are making a mistake by making it too difficult for people to watch their shows.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on October 20, 2018, 11:48:08 PM
QuoteI am now wondering if we're going to see all the various Marvel shows get cancelled one by one, to let Disney keep all future shows exclusive to it own streaming service.

Yeah, see, this is why I roll my eyes at people who pump their fists at the prospect of Disney buying up Fox and getting the X-Men and Fantastic Four back. It might seem like like a good thing but the cost is severe. One company (Disney) getting a monopoly comes with downsides, it means they set the terms and they call the shots.

I look forward to seeing how big the backlash to Luke Cage's cancellation is. Between it being a much better received show than IF and the positive representation that permeates the show, I think people will make a lot of noise about it. I do wonder if Disney is just going to cancel each show one by one, just on a different day. If they announce JJ, DD or Punisher cancelled the writing will be firmly on the wall.

QuoteAmusingly, the breaking up of streaming television into multiple paid channels is causing tv pirating, which had nearly gone away to make a recent resurgence.  These people are making a mistake by making it too difficult for people to watch their shows.

Oh really? This is my surprised face.  :o  I remember a few months ago when a trailer came out for a new Rocky and Bullwinkle cartoon and it was going straight to Amazon Prime. I lamented the days of my youth where kids could just turn on the the tv and watch their cartoons. Now you need to have cable, AND have multiple (increasingly expensive!) streaming services just to watch your shows and even then you're not guaranteed to get all the stuff you wanted to watch. I've got two: Netflix and Funimation Now, and it's going to be three if Canada gets the Disney streaming service. And I still don't get Legion and Cloak and Dagger.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 21, 2018, 06:48:12 AM
Not to bury the lead but, I gotta give it to Daredevil's show runners. If they're indeed cancelling all of Marvel's Netflix shows this one went out with a buzzer beater. I'm not going to say off rip that I liked it better than season 1, definitely better than S2. They did a lot of right with this. A few complaints. But I'm happy with the finished product. Happy with the ending. And look forward to the revival on Disney Play!

Spoiler
First, I'll go with a few complaints I got since they're fresh in my mind. Bullseye. Couldn't get a single mention of the word/name all season. I liked the Easter egg with the ball cap, but he practically used DD's costume all season. I expected him to at least chisle a bullseye on that but no.And while I appreciate the setup, with the spinal surgery he's having but they seemed to go out their way to avoid using adamantium or vibranium(can't remember which he has) but that reminds me of my next complaint: this season was effectively bare of any MCU connections. Other than a mention of Jessica Jones and a few mention of the end of Defenders, I can't remember any others. Also hoped for a few more cameos. With the exception of Ben Donovan and  Annabeth Sciorra's character, I don't remember any others. Season 2 was all about the additional  characters. Season 1 had a number of cameos. None here that I can think of. And another thing, speaking of those other seasons, why do they continue to put DD in these scraps(that prison fight tho!!!) and he gets knocked around. But put him up against a army of highly trained and deadly ninjas, not a scratch.Lastly, thematically I suppose I can get staying with the original black suit, but I was hoping like the previous seasons, particularly the first he got a major upgrade before the final boss fight. I was hoping keeping black but putting it in the armor suit. He even told Dex he was coming to get it but didn't. Bit let down by that.

Now for the good parts. Going back to the prison fight, that was a fun watch!  I liked the arch of the season. It wasn't as disjointed and segmented as season 2 was. It was all about getting the Kingpin(yes KINGPIN, not a reference or a callback but they actually said Wilson Fisk is "Kingpin"). Speaking of Kingpin, I don't know if he was tamed by comparison, he almost seemed like a henchman in S1, but Kingpin in S3 was CRAZY sinister like I'd imagine him being. He controlled EVERYTHING and got to everyone! Dude was more dangerous than The Hand.  That was a proper villain for DD! Not just him but Dex too. I love how they played him. He was off and just got progressively worse through the season. And loved seeing him go up against DD, really appreciated his power. It seemed subtle at first but the more things he'd pick up to weaponize the cooler he got. Though I do have to wonder how did he not kill Kingpin with the glass at the end? Actually... Also not sure why he decided to kill the priest instead of Karen who he wanted to kill?

Also appreciated them not having Foggy and Karen all over the map about Matt being DD. It seemed more consistent this season, whereas in previous seasons first he's cool with it and within minutes he's lecturing him about it.

As far as the other characters go, I thought they were good in their roles. Ray, Sister Maggie, Tower, Donovan. I do have to say I appreciated the casting, an Indian-American, and his family nothing stereotypical or culturally focused about it, it was just his character. Well played and casted.

Lastly the plot twist with Sister Maggie being being revealed to be Matt's mother was a little out of nowhere and they seemed to do nothing with it, but I thought her character was interesting enough though.

Speaking of, I remember looking at Sister Maggie and noticing a scene with her looking at Matt with a slightly raised eyebrow and it struck me that I've seen that face somewhere before. Couldn't place it at first but I remember seeing that same look wearing medieval armor... Thought about Timeline or Dragon heart... But no. Then it hit me.

Sorsha from Willow. Hadn't seen her in 30 years but proud of myself that I was able to place it!
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on October 21, 2018, 11:50:11 AM
Finished it last night. Pretty great, that second-to-last scene was kinda a perfect ending to the whole series, if they were to never make any more, speaking of which, I kinda feel like they shouldn't make any more DD. This one kinda said everything that needed to be said. As Walt Disney once said, you can't top pigs with pigs, and I'm not sure what they could top it with.

Spoiler
Yes, I did notice an near-complete absence of MCU references. Matt's snarky mention of JJ at the end got a laugh and it stood out just because of the absence of such references throughout. No Claire Temple, no Jerry Hogarth, no Trish Walker, I don't think Danny or Luke got mentioned. I don't think Turk makes an appearance (one of the few times he doesn't appear in a season of any of the shows). Castle got mentioned in the first episode or so, but that was more to write Karen back in after her stint on Punisher.

Yeah, Bullseye's lack of actually becoming Bullseye was....disappointing. He was great on his own merits (even though, like I said, a little repetitive) but he's such a loose adaptation of the character I almost wonder why they bothered. I didn't care for that last scene with him at the end. I thought it was kinda schlock and threw off the good vibes off the final scene with Matte, Karen and Foggy. 
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: UnkoMan on November 09, 2018, 10:15:13 PM
Yeah, I liked season 3.

Spoiler
I didn't think Sister Maggie being DD's mom was out of left field but that's only because... she is his mom in the comics. It's totally already established and I knew it the whole time, and was just wondering when they would drop it. I like how they incorporated some very specific Daredevil runs/plot points into the season.

And, though I did roll my eyes a bit at Bullseye being, as mentioned, yet another barely holding it together until they aren't villain, the story was enough to keep me engaged. I actually ended up really liking him.
Did I wish that, for the final fight, DD was in Red and Bullseye had, say, a black version of the suit sans horns? Maybe. I did notice how Kingpin and DD both had a touch of red with the rose and the undershirt. Subtle touches.
I agree about the unnecessarily of the scene showing him getting a metal spine. We already watched this guy throw a ton of things. That office fight? Bordered on totally silly, though still fun. We know he's Bullseye. Do you have to have the... "I'll be back" moment?

I think it was all pretty good. Though the end, seeing Kingpin get arrested again was a bit of a letdown. I would rather have them be able to spin everything to truly make it look like, "Oh Daredevil was trying to set him up the entire time," and have him get off. I think this just wrapped things up a little too pat. But otherwise, it was good. He was thinking of contingencies much more than in the first season. I think characterizations were pretty solid.

I agree that if this was the end for DD, it did pretty good. For the record, I actually even like season 2. And all the parts in Defender that were about Daredevil and Elektra. That's probably the only stuff I really liked in Defenders.

Hopefully if JJ gets a third season it manages to bring it like this, or like it did in the first season. I really want to see Patsy put on a Hellcat outfit and get in over her head.

And Luke... oh no, Luke. I mean, the end of season 2 is just so... obviously the middle of a story that needs to be told.
Actually, is DD S3 suppose to take place at the same time as Luke or what's the deal? It confused me that with all this various underground crime, considering where Luke was left. Well, you know what I mean, right?

How come all these heroes are like, "No, this is my fight. No, I have to do this alone."
Like, you don't have these other people on speed dial? "Yo, I need help beating somebody up, you in?"
Oh well, lone wolves.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on November 30, 2018, 11:52:19 AM
The nightmare continues. Daredevil is cancelled. You knew this was coming Pete!

I hate Disney so much these days.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: UnkoMan on November 30, 2018, 02:26:06 PM
At this point I'm wondering why they don't just go ahead and announce JJ and Punisher cancellations?
Is it because they already have the next seasons of each partially completed and they want to at least wait until those are out?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 30, 2018, 09:54:52 PM
This fits my theory that they want all Marvel Streaming shows on their own digital service only.  If true, expect to see all the Marvel Hulu shows cancelled as well.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 30, 2018, 09:56:37 PM
Quote from: UnkoMan on November 30, 2018, 02:26:06 PM
At this point I'm wondering why they don't just go ahead and announce JJ and Punisher cancellations?
Is it because they already have the next seasons of each partially completed and they want to at least wait until those are out?

So far they have announced all cancellations shortly after the latest season ended.  I expect to see this pattern completely.

I'm thinking they are trying to avoid the backlash of making it too obvious that they are cancelling everything just so they can go inhouse, which would be hard to avoid if they cancelled them all at once.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on November 30, 2018, 10:34:40 PM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 30, 2018, 09:54:52 PM
This fits my theory that they want all Marvel Streaming shows on their own digital service only.  If true, expect to see all the Marvel Hulu shows cancelled as well.

I think that's everyone's theory at this point.

Disney owns part of Hulu so they might not cancel Runaways or whatever else is on there or is going to be on there.

QuoteI'm thinking they are trying to avoid the backlash of making it too obvious that they are cancelling everything just so they can go inhouse, which would be hard to avoid if they cancelled them all at once.

Well, if that's the case (and I was expected it to play out like that) it ain't working. Lots of people (myself included) were fully expecting them to cancelling all of the shows, from order of "least valued by fans" to "most valued by fans" with allowances for JJ and Punisher since they're already working on new seasons. There's a reason I call it the Disney Purge. Lately I've also taken to quoting Die Hard 4 and calling it the Fire Sale: everything must go!

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on December 03, 2018, 01:33:23 AM
It's a theory, but my sources tell me it isn't the reason why.

Honestly, it could be as easy as Netflix not wanting to advertise for Disney. They own the television rights to Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Iron Fist and the Punisher. With Disney producing their own streaming service, which will be a competitor to Netflix's streaming service, they don't want to boost the other's profile. So Disney/Marvel has will be pulling their content from Netflix and Netflix likewise will cease to give Disney free marketing with that "Marvel" logo popping up before their shows.

Unfortunately, unless Disney decides to buy the properties from Netflix, which they haven't done and no guarantee they will do, it will be the end of their run.

But heck, Disney buys everything else these days I'm surprise they don't just buy the properties, but buy Netflix while they're at it.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on December 03, 2018, 01:51:36 AM
Yeah, they'd be a lot better off buying Netflix and combining all those properties rather than further splintering the streaming market.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on December 03, 2018, 07:14:08 AM
Shogun, maybe your sources are right. I don't know. I do know though, that corporations often lie, and I wouldn't trust Disney to record an episode of Ducktales for me.
Yes, Netflix not wanting to advertise for what's about to become (or already was) a major competitor makes lots of sense. I mean, Fox was doing that for years, and us fans were experiencing the results of that feud for years. In any case, It still goes back to Disney. In any case, Netflix just raised the rates AGAIN, and is about to take off an exclusive, which I don't think they've ever done before, so I'm going to be cancelling in the next few months. I've got a three free months from a Playstation promotion so I'll ride that out.

Benton: Yes, I also was thinking the other night that Disney might as well buy Netflix like they buy everything else. Honestly, I'd rather they did that. This whole split-up-all-the-content thing is the pits and the consumer gets screwed over by it. As I said earlier, I miss the days where you could just watch all your shows on tv. Getting to watch all your favorite shows shouldn't feel like work. It shouldn't be stressful. But it is.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: BentonGrey on December 03, 2018, 03:31:37 PM
Entirely true, SS.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: stumpy on December 03, 2018, 05:11:10 PM
I have to say, there is always some chance that the shows aren't being renewed because... the most recent season wasn't all that great? I very much enjoyed most of the Netflix Marvel shows when they were starting up. Then there was the whiny Iron Fist, then a poorly paced second season of Luke Cage, and so on. We have been sort of planning to watch the latest season of Daredevil, and may or may not give Iron Fist another shot. But, the enthusiasm is not very high.

BTW, I have been reading that Disney properties have been losing old-style cable subscribers (https://variety.com/2018/biz/news/espn-disney-channel-subscriber-losses-2018-1203035003/), particularly as cord-cutting marches on. Perhaps because of that, Disney (and CBS, etc., etc.) have been considering an "exclusive content" view of their streaming services. I understand that they want to drive subscriptions and correctly see that the traditional cable cash cow may be going away. But, they have to understand at some level that streaming subscribers aren't looking to subscribe to 20 services. Disney may have enough desirable content to justify a separate subscription for some people. But, Disney could also monetize their content the way they have, by partnering with companies like Netflix. There is no rule that Marvel TV shows can't be both on Netflix and on a Disney streaming service. Remember, Netflix pays them for that content. And, Netflix subscribership is growing.

I am not hoping to see Disney buy Netflix. Less competition in online services will only hurt consumers.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 04, 2018, 12:50:50 AM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on December 03, 2018, 07:14:08 AM
Benton: Yes, I also was thinking the other night that Disney might as well buy Netflix like they buy everything else. Honestly, I'd rather they did that. This whole split-up-all-the-content thing is the pits and the consumer gets screwed over by it. As I said earlier, I miss the days where you could just watch all your shows on tv. Getting to watch all your favorite shows shouldn't feel like work. It shouldn't be stressful. But it is.
The backlash has already started.  Online TV piracy rates had fallen to almost nothing after the prevalence of all these streaming option, but now with the splintering up into various pay for stream sites, TV piracy is skyrocketing again.  People are willing to pay a reasonable fee for their shows, but make it DIFFICULT and they'll just take it instead.  And there isn't a whole lot that companies can do about that if they insist on fighting the customers instead of just giving them what they want.

Disney's best bet woudl have actually been to buy the rest of their partners out of Hulu, since those companies seem less than invested in it, yet it's original shows are very popular and it's one of the big three streaming brands.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on December 04, 2018, 04:26:07 AM
Absolutely. We talked about that earlier and I said no surprise, because it's not a surprise. The key word that none of these greedy companies seem to grasp is "convenience." Once upon a time Napster reigned supreme until Itunes was created and all of a sudden people actually felt inclined to pay for their music. Comics have Comixology. Honestly? I think Comixology might be the smartest move the comics industry has done in my entire lifetime, because now if you miss your book at the store, or don't want to bother with the drive to the store and comics lining your shelves and filling your boxes, you can just buy them there on your tablet day one lickety split and they're going to have every book. They adapted to and competed with the modern world and found a way to turn pirates into customers.

These streaming services are the exact opposite of all of that. You're making it less convenient, more time consuming, more difficult to see your content (legally, pirating a major new show takes less time than it takes to take a shower if you already know how) which is the exact wrong move in this age. You need a gosh darn flow chart just to keep track of all your Marvel, DC and Star Wars content, never mind if you want to get caught up on Game of Thrones, Westworld and Rick and Morty (I use a notepad file myself). But when my friends are over on Sunday for pizza, games and shows they want to be able to watch Game of Thrones, Westworld or Rick and Morty right away, and none of them seem to value supporting content they like as much as I do.

You have fans online who want to be able to see Rick Grime's final episode of Walking Dead day 1, catch up to the day 1 front page spoilers and start sharing memes on Twitter and Tumblr. You have to adapt to and start appealing to that market. You can't just bury your head in the sand and assume people are going to pony up for a streaming service purely for a divisive Star Trek and a heavily derided Titans. You can't just take away the content people loved (and payed for) and then expect them for pony up for the Disney service for Scarlet Witch and Loki streaming shows (actual things promised by the way) because "We're Marvel bay-bay!" I go to the theater to see Infinity War. I pay that for THAT movie. I don't pay for a Moviepass so I can watch IW and NOT watch Venom, Aquaman and Wreck it Ralph 2, but still pay for them, because I don't want to see those movies, I want to see the one I actually like. That's how it works. And hey, at least that would include non-Disney movies lol!

Quote from: stumpy on December 03, 2018, 05:11:10 PM
I have to say, there is always some chance that the shows aren't being renewed because... the most recent season wasn't all that great? I very much enjoyed most of the Netflix Marvel shows when they were starting up. Then there was the whiny Iron Fist, then a poorly paced second season of Luke Cage, and so on. We have been sort of planning to watch the latest season of Daredevil, and may or may not give Iron Fist another shot. But, the enthusiasm is not very high.

A lot of people did like Daredevil S3 and Luke Cage S2 though. I don't know if Netflix and/or Disney was concerned with that vs. viewership numbers, but they weren't getting bashed far and wide like Iron Fist was.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on January 11, 2019, 01:22:04 AM
BTW, new trailer for the Punisher has apparently released for Season 2's release next week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrLhP5sK2wI

Two main problems with what I'm seeing:

Spoiler
1. I've said before and I'm still bothered by it. He's the PUNISHER. Not the REVENGER. He's not one to go get revenge for something, he punishes. Revenge is specific, targeted. Punishing is something more widely applied to anyone. He's still looking like he's targeting specific persons and if he's not, he quits. He can't quit. That's not the world he lives in. He lives in the most imperfect Hobbesian world and crime is ever persistent. Which means he cannot help but to persistently exist. Stopping means someone else's family is getting shot to death and he can't let that happen.

2. Why is it so hard for them to make Jigsaw look like Jigsaw. I mean, they don't have to go all out freaky Halloween mask Jigsaw from Punisher: Warzone, but what I was reading and what they confirmed is that Jigsaw's "mind is torn to pieces" and not his face... WTF? He's called Jigsaw because his face looks like a Jigsaw puzzle. I mean seriously, what's the point of having him in the show if you refuse to put him IN the show?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: daglob on January 11, 2019, 02:11:54 AM
General answer to your last question: because someone involved in the production thinks this is an improvement over the silly comic book.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on January 11, 2019, 03:03:24 AM
No, because being able to go over the top with it would be shocking to people who don't already know the character, which is something the Netflix shows have been prone to be. More likely it's a combination of two factors: A. They don't want to spend the money on designing the makeup, since this is the final season and that's money they don't want to spend and B. The actor probably doesn't want his face covered up.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on January 20, 2019, 11:09:12 AM
Well, finished season 2 of The Punisher.  And it took some warming up(maybe a lot of warming up), but it got going and I gotta be honest, I think while the first season was technically better I enjoyed this season more... I think is precise.

Spoiler
Coming in I could hardly make heads or tails out of what this season was to be about, but I had a bit of an idea. Of course there's the Russo/Jigsaw storyline left over from season one and I saw in the trailer there was a kid involved this season. Also read an article saying that the main antagonist this season would be politically tied to the alt-right or religious right. Not sure if I'm remembering incorrectly or the article was conflating the two.

As it turned out the story was actually about a Russian oligarch that obtained compromising information on a potential presidential candidate that has ties to the alt-right(where would they ever get some kind of mess like that from?  &lt;_&lt;).  More broadly, Frank/Punisher crosses paths with a teenage girl that some how obtained photos of a U.S. Senator making out with some dude and the Senator's parents are apparently some Pat Robertson/Heritage Foundation types that are so corporately and politically connected that are doing all they can to get those photos back. Ostensibly to keep their son, the Senator's reputation clean. Truth be told, if any of this is sounding any parts confusing is probably because it kinda seemed all over the place. First, we hardly got a good introduction of the kid. Even the little bit of the background we did get I honestly wasn't sure what was what due to her backstory constantly changing.  The Heritage Foundation types "hired" a reformed white supremacist that found religion to find the girl. He too had a background that was rather cloudy and not well defined. I don't even think I heard his name until like 9-10 episodes in so I started thinking of him as "The Holy"(low-level Punisher villain from a run 20 years ago). I mean, none of this story was really fully defined for like the first 4-5 episodes or so. All we pretty much knew that he was a religious guy that had a squad of trained mercenaries working for him that wanted to capture the kid, a kid they found by torturing some Russian guy. Frank, who was trying to live a quiet life decided to get involve and because he's not someone to run from a fight, he turned the fight on them.

As all of this was happening, Dinah Madani still hadn't got over what Russo did to her and wanted him to pay. Russo's been hospitalized for the last 18 months(???) with his face scratched up and suffering from amnesia. The last thing he remembers his being in Afghanistan with Curtis and Frank.  The first mentions of "Jigsaw" was his psychiatrist saying putting his mind back together was like building a jigsaw puzzle. And through his storyline Russo, who had no memory of anything he did, but found out that Madani was mad with him and eventually finding Frank wanted to kill him. Of course he eventually escaped and pretty much just started robbing banks and drug dealers.

Overall, the two storylines hardly mixed. The times they did was when "The Holy"(okay, eventually learned his name was John Pilgrim) tracked Madani or Curtis down to find Frank to find the girl, Amy. But for the bulk of the middle episodes had Frank/Amy/Curtis/Madani agreeing put aside going after The Holy until they kill Russo(they all pretty much wanted him dead).

And that's the plot. Like I said, the first 4-5 episodes were not only pretty slow, but hardly anything was being explained well at all. There were some good scenes with Frank taking on the mercenaries in the bar and when he got arrested by the small-town sheriff's department and they came after him there. But after that the latter part of the middle episodes I suppose many could consider fairly uninteresting.  There was little(or actually no) killing, nothing of the Punisher doing Punisher things. They eventually revealed the two main plot points, Russo robbing folks building an army and The Holy doing what the Shultz's wanted him to do(they were "watching" his sons while he was on his mission).

But the second half of the season is when things really revved up. The first firefight with The Punisher, Russo, Curtis and Mahoney(who was probably in this season more than he's been in all the other shows combined) was really intense! It was almost Heat-level good! The fight scenes were also well done! Frank in the bar. Frank in the forest. Frank in the warehouse! Frank's shootout with the Holy.  They were all pretty fun, especially in the warehouse.

Eventually, Madani found Russo through his psychiatrist, tossed her through a window and shot Russo. Frank confronted the Senator(who was really a small part in it all) and found out about his parents. He found the Holy, they had a couple of fights, but eventually Frank let him lived because he was practically doing the same thing Frank was doing, which was "anything for the kids". Frank then found and finished off Russo and killed the Mr. and Mrs. Shultz.  Both storylines wrapped itself up pretty well. Well, not so much. The Holy got his kids back, which was good, and Frank got to the Shultzs, but I wasn't exactly sure what he wanted from them in regards to their son, the senator?

However, for me, the ending was pretty much the cherry on top! The epilogue saw Madani joining the CIA and Frank staying in New York being EXACTLY what he was made to be... THE PUNISHER!

And I thank them for that. He had to figure out through the season, though it seemed convenient, that he isn't not like regular people and both Madani and Mahoney came to terms with the fact that he exclusively targets criminals.  And they finally let Frank be Frank and end with him being who he is. Skull-wearing, machine gun carrying, body-dropping and quite-frankly thoroughly psychotic PUNISHER!  And I loved every bit of it! Especially when it got going when he was in his element.

If this is how the series ends, I'm happy with it. It wasn't perfect. It was fairly confusing at times, but it seemed like a vehicle for the Punisher to be the Punisher. Which if you're a fan, you definitely should love and if you just want to see an action-filled thriller, you should enjoy it too.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: HarryTrotter on January 20, 2019, 11:33:48 AM
You could have gonne with The Rev.But I guess that doesnt really work either.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on January 21, 2019, 12:22:59 AM
I didn't enjoy it that much myself. Yeah, there were some brutal fights, but I wasn't crazy about how they used Frank for most of it (though Berenthal still sells it with his acting) I was disappointed with how Russo was used, and I found myself seriously zoning out for the middle. More than any other Marvel Netflix show (even Iron Fist!) this was the one where I was agreeing with people who say these shows drag on too long.

Spoiler
According to Wikipedia, John Pilgrim is inspired by a character from the comics called The Mennonite, who was an Amish farmer. Between that, the shootout at the police station and the casting of Ward in Iron Fist I couldn't help but say "Somebody's apparently been watching Banshee!". In any case, I felt that for most of the show they'd softened Frank in this, turning him into a more conventional heroic lead, complete with a bratty kid he has to protect.

The Russo stuff annoyed me. Not only has he been in therapy for 18 months, with a barely scarred face (everyone seemed disappointed by that; I did really like the fanart somebody made of how he should look) and the worst worst therapist this side of Harleen Quinzel, but they apparently didn't have enough armed guards to keep him from just beating them up in a few seconds and walking right out. It reminded me of how stupid the FBI was when it came to Fisk in the third season of Daredevil.

It was fun to see Annette O'Tool again, and the final season (which reminded me of the ending of Blade 2) was indeed pretty awesome, but I dunno, I wasn't feeling it. This might be the last season though, so at least they wrapped it up.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on January 21, 2019, 02:19:38 AM
I can see that SS. Particularly through the middle parts. I got the sense that many may not dig it.

Spoiler
And there is the idea that yeah, like a few other seasons they seemed to stretch 8 to 10 episodes of plot over 13 episodes. And yeah, I was annoyed with Jigsaw just having a couple scratches which I tried my best to be fine with but never really could.

Also, a little surprised you didn't say more about the plot which even for me seemed rather disjointed and all over the place.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on January 21, 2019, 02:38:09 AM
Yeah, I'd say it was a bit all over the place. It took quite a while for the various plots/subplots to come together but I dunno, I guess I'm used to that by now in these shows, and you already covered the show's plot pretty thoroughly.

Oh one thing that came to mind:

Spoiler
I got a bit of chuckle out of the way they got Russo's plot and Frank's plot to first cross over. They both literally hear about each other on the news. I know that's something that happens very often in fiction and it makes sense, I mean, that's what the news is for, but it just felt super convenient, especially with Frank just randomly channel surfing until Russo came up. Good thing the news didn't just happen to be running a story on puppies or Amazon or...other things at that moment.

OH, one other thing I totally forgot about: This season of Punisher brought to you by Coca Cola. Boy oh boy was it ever brought to you by Coca Cola. Every other scene that girl was either drinking a Coke or, in one case early on, talking about wanting a Coke.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 21, 2019, 03:36:59 AM
And, as expected, the remainder of the shows were cancelled.  RIP Netflix Marvel shows.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on February 21, 2019, 05:07:32 PM
JJ season 3 is finishing, that should be clarified. Also, there are rumors Hulu wants to revive them but is waiting for the deal to finish with Disney.

Frankly though... I think what's there is fine. I'm excited to see JJ's conclusion (I may not have liked s2 a ton, but it ended well) DD got a great send-off, and IF's ending at least promised better material than we ever got.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 19, 2019, 07:54:05 AM
Watched Jessica Jones season 3. Not too bad, it is better than season 2, but as an ending to the Marvel Netflix experiment, it's a bit bittersweet. And, like the last few, it goes on just a bit too long. Wasn't crazy about a major character turn. Carrie Ann Moss was the best thing in the season. Who, watching the Matrix movies back in the 2000's, could have predicted that? I found her, along with Trish, Malcolm and Ritter as Jess (regardless of her actual plot) to be the saving graces of the not-great S2, and that trajectory is consistent here. Eric felt like an obligatory love interest character, who didn't really need to be there.

Spoiler
Wasn't crazy about Trish becoming a villain. Not only because it seems unnecessarily cruel to Jess, since she's pretty much the only good thing she's consistently had in her life, and also because Trish was probably my favorite character across the 3 seasons, but after the mostly not great S2, the one thing I was looking forward to about this season was Trish becoming a super-hero. Not that they didn't sell it, they did, it's just not what I'd prefer they did with the character.
Luke Cage cameo was nice. I'm glad they gave minor lip service to the intriguing status quo change at the end of LC S2. It's no substitute for a S3, but it's better than nothing.

Salinger (he's an in-name only version of Foolkiller, for those wondering) was a pretty good villain; I appreciated the conflict that Jessica Jones has a villain who's not a threat because they're physically strong or have superpowers, but simply because they manage to avoid being charged with his crimes. And she can't just snap his neck this time either because she doesn't want to and/or because her close relationship with Not-Gordon means she can't really get away with it.

I also appreciate that the show kinda acknowledged how effed up it is that Jess is drinking a bottle of bourbon in damn near every scene we see her in in her office. It's also kinda darkly hilarious that she attempted to shrug off losing a spleen by saying "it just does the same thing as a liver", while her own liver's gotta be black as coal (or would be if not for the powers).
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on June 23, 2019, 08:34:25 PM
Well, I was enjoying this season until I came here and read what SS wrote. I don't know why. I couldn't help myself for some reason. I wasn't looking at this as "oh cool spoiler, I wonder how spoilery, what's it say?" I was actually thinking "Oh Silver Shocker is saying something and I want to finish reading what he saying" almost as if it was a "continue reading" tab you'd see on FB or something and I clicked it and bam, the first sentence. And I was thinking "Crap! Why did I just click that!?" And I had to convince myself that I read it wrong... and I actually thought I did for a while. Then I didn't. Then I did. And then I didn't again.

I'm kidding, SS! That was all me. Lol.

Spoiler
If I'm being completely honest, I think I enjoyed this season if not as much probably more than season one and honestly, one of my favorite of the 13. The thing I've liked about this series is the resistance of falling into the same villainy tropes of the bad guy being the mirror image of the good guy. Iron Man fights Iron Monger. Thor the Asgardian fights Loki the Asgardian. Captain America the Super Soldier fights the Super Soldiers Red Skull and Winter Soldier. But Jessica Jones her villains aren't her opposites. They're complications that she can't just punch through. Salinger was much in that mold. BTW, my brother and I always was a fan of his because we thought his trading card back in the 90s was pretty cool so I was happy to see him show up in live action. But this season was interesting. Salinger was a good foil for Jessica and Trish. Speaking of, when I saw the spoiler I was hoping to myself it said "vigilante" instead of villain. And as it happened, I got to the end and saw Jessica figure out she killed the cop and then see her killing the other guy, I'm thinking "Oh damn, Shocker was right, she is like going villain-villain" only to find out in the next episode that she was doing it to frame herself to protect Jessica and started thinking "maybe I did read his post wrong, thank God!" But the fact it turned a few times like that for me is what also made it more interesting, even after I foolishly spoiled it for myself.  But in all, I wouldn't consider Trish the villain or a villain, to be fair. Yes she went off the deep end and Eric proved it. But she, like the other villains in the series, was not traditional at all. Where Killgrave was all bad and he even knew it, Her mother was a choatic crazy bad, whether she knew it or not. Salinger was lawfully bad(sorry for the rather D&D descriptions, but it kinda made sense at the time). Trish came to figure out that she was the bad guy(literally actually saying it even). So her acceptance of her doing wrong, which IMO not very unlike what Malcolm did. Even he gave Eric a headache but was contrite.  One thing that kind left me disappointed was Luke's cameo. While, of course, I welcome him coming back and seeing them at least trying to revive the "Jessica and Luke" storyline as we know. But it almost seemed rather throwaway. He just randomly shows up and tells her "Hey I locked away my estranged brother and so can you" and that's pretty much it. I think he would have been better used as a bookend, like meeting her at the station as she decided to leave and they go have "coffee". Something like that. But this was just random and somehow just didn't fit right, IMO. Speaking of, Killgrave's cameo too was just.... "huh?"

But like I said overall, I really enjoyed this. Definitely more than the second. Maybe more than the first because here the characters all seemed more "complete" versions of themselves. As I think about it, months removed, Punisher 2 is quickly becoming my favorite season, followed by DD1 and LC1. But this is up there among those to me. Maybe my opinion will rise. That said, it was a good ending IMO. Maybe I'd want that character turn to go another way, but I'll take it for what it's worth.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Silver Shocker on June 24, 2019, 12:07:16 AM
Sorry about that Shogunn. I definitely could have stated "Spoilers under the cut", but didn't think of it. And if it really did end up enhancing your experience, then glad to hear it.  In any case, glad to hear you enjoyed the season.

Spoiler
I actually want back and forth and whether or not to call Trish a "villain". But my logic was ultimately that in the end, she had to be stopped and put away by the main character, thus she counts as an antagonist. I do sometimes differ with others on whether a character counts as a villain or not. But logic extends to this point: them being sympathetic doesn't negate them being a villain. Villains can (and in many case are) sympathetic. Some of the best are.

I was wondering for a long time if they could have written anything with the mindset that this will be the final Marvel Netflix season. I do wonder if Luke's cameo was always meant to be there. It did feel like the show could have used a better sendoff for the Netflix experiment. Ultimately I think the ending to DD S3 (minus the goofy Bullseye scene) was the more satisfying send-off.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 31, 2019, 03:34:19 AM
Surprised to see another post here?  Well, while not quite confirmed, there are a LOT of rumors going around that all of the characters from these shows are being brought back fully into the MCU with the exception of Iron Fist and all of his cast.  There's a possible Daredevil movie with most of the series cast as well as a good possibility that Luke Cage joins the New Avengers team.  If true, it's good that these shows are not being dropped completely out of the MCU.

Iron Fist, however may be rebooted completely with an entirely new cast.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on October 31, 2019, 05:51:48 AM
Honestly, I've been hearing that they've been campaigning like real hard to reprise their roles in some way. At least the Daredevil and Punisher stars, that I do know. Somehow I gotta imagine that with three stars of two of the series on CBS primetime(with Evil also being picked up for a 2nd season), things might be a bit more difficult.  Overall, it'd be a shame for them to go away. The fan reaction, in a day and age where fan toxicity is extreme, it's responded well. Even surprisingly to Iron Fist 2nd season. SO yeah it'd be a complete shame if they left.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on October 31, 2019, 06:01:13 AM
I'd like to see more from these series, even in a different form, but I think that the stuff about IF being excluded is... problematic. Yes, S1 is... not great (it's a martial arts show with bad martial arts) but at the same time... I did like some of the supporting characters and the problems with Danny were how he was written, not how he was acted, as he was much better in LC season 2. But in addition to that, now we're going right back to the same problem we had at the start of the series: Who to cast. You cast a white dude everyone goes nuts because it's still a white man assimilating another person's culture. Make him Asian, great, now you've made the martial arts guy an asian because that isn't a stereotype at all, not to mention upsetting purist fans. You make him something else, now you've ticked off both camps.

For all the issues one can, deservedly, give Iron Fist, by the end of Season 2 they'd found a good third option. Danny was OG Iron Fist, but has since transferred the mantle to Colleen Wing. You now have the focus of the series on an Asian actress without it feeling forced, and Danny is still around with power (somehow) in his classic comic book form getting to run around and team up with Luke Cage, which is what most of us wanted to see happen anyway. They just needed to give him a bloody costume.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on October 31, 2019, 01:02:01 PM
Allegedly IF's exclusion is because Fegi doesn't like that series, but likes the other ones and the TV stuff now falls under him as well.

Apparently the plans are to recast Danny as Asian.

Given that the rumored plans for DD and LC are for movies rather than tv the inclusion of actors in other tv shows shouldn't be too big of a deal.  Plus these are a couple years off probably.  Supposedly as part of the Netflix deal they have to wait that long before using the characters again anyway.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on October 31, 2019, 03:45:12 PM
Mehhhhhh...

Listen, y'all know I am the last person to complain about diversity casting, but that would not be a good move. Between Shang Chi and Iron Fist, both of the headlining Asian characters of the MCU would be relegated to the Martial artists, and that's not a great look. I'd almost rather see a third option... Arabic, Latino, Israeli, etc. since that eliminates the white savior complaint while also not reinforcing stereotypes.

That's not to say I can't see an Asian Danny, son of Chinese/Japanese executives who comes home after becoming the iron fist and resulting in that same modern vs historic culture conflict as the source material. I just REALLY don't like the idea of the Asian lead roles all being relegated to the kung Fu movies.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 02, 2019, 04:30:08 PM
Not just Shang Chi, but I'm almost certain when(if) they cast Namor he'd very possibly be Asian and I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.  Not that there need to be a quota of diversity, but there's a REASON why Shang Chi was being pushed. It's a bonefide character to showcase the publisher's diversity. I get that I support that.

But I'm sorry, if they're really trying to make Danny Rand a rich guy that grows up in Asian culture Asian then what's the point of even calling him Iron Fist. That ain't Iron Fist anymore and it's just ridiculous. Extremely ridiculous. Who the hell are you trying to please doing something as silly? The character is NOT Asian. Part of the character's actual character is being just a white guy. It's that characteristic that IS a story element. And there's nothing wrong with that. What would be wrong (or problematic really) is to make everybody else white with him. But they went out of their way to make Asian culture a big part of the show and they could have not.

I've said it before. I know I'm not Asian so I can't claim a full supportive or offended position. But I know from where I sit, when I hear rumors like casting Micheal B. Jordan or a Will Smith as a Batman or Superman and I'm thinking what for? There are a TON of actually black superheroes I'd rather see. Why make Superman black, just give me Icon.(errrr duh look at the pic lol)  Just the same, I know there aren't a ton of Asian superheroes to celebrate, but I'm really not a big fan of shoehorning a whole different race on another character for just because reasons. Particularly when you're doing it at the expense of other characters and other stories I think audiences would love to see and fanboys would crave.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Tomato on November 02, 2019, 05:00:34 PM
TBF, I can see Iron Fist as non-white, and I do get that his whole backstory is a white savior narrative (last samurai, etc.) which is why Danny being white IN PARTICULAR is a problem for a wider audience in today's world. And it's a no win situation, because they can't just NOT do Iron Fist because of his long history with Luke Cage. However, my stance is that the choice isn't binary, and even if it was, making him asian is the more racially divisive choice because not only are you going against the comic version of the character, but doing so to lean INTO racial stereotypes like the Asian being the Martial Arts guy.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: Shogunn2517 on November 02, 2019, 11:12:12 PM
I'll concede that point. Of course. It is less of a blow to avoid the "white savior" without a stereotypical Asian role by having Danny Rand be black or latino, Israeli, Filipino even. But honestly, might just be a personal opinion, but I think the character is more effective as is, but that's neither here nor there.

Like I said, I get the arguments of cultural representation vs cultural appropriation, but in this particular case, I don't think it's that kind of a deal. Specifically for those clamoring for the character to be played by an Asian. That's not who he is. Like when they say "how are you gonna have a guy connected to Asian culture doing kung fu and not be Asian", well that's kinda the point of the entire character isn't it? He's a bit of a fish out of water... and it's that flsh being out of water that makes it peculiar.
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: daglob on November 03, 2019, 03:02:33 PM
I haven't read Iron Fist in years, but weren't the populace of Kun'lun extraterrestrials, or was it just the dragon?
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on November 04, 2019, 01:22:05 AM
The latest is that it seems marvel is planning on moving into a series of R-Rated movies with their own crossover team as a version of the Midnight Sons and Punisher, with the Netflix cast, would be one of those. Blade and possibly Deadpool would be part of that as well (but it doesn't sound like Deadpool is part of the team, only the R-rated movie series)
Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: GhostMachine on November 06, 2019, 05:30:10 AM
There were complaints than Danny was white rather than Asian when the Iron Fist series was first announced, including complaints by a few people who should have known better. (A writer who had actually worked for Marvel, for example.) My response was `Sure, lets make Danny Asian. And while we're at it, introduce Shang-Chi, but make him an African-American rapper with Shang-Chi being his rap name. Because that makes about as much sense.' I get the desire for some to avoid the white savior trope, but Danny *not* being Asian is sort of the point. Wanting to make Danny Asian is a case of being overly racially sensitive and PC. Probably also the reason that Snake-Eyes is going to be played by a partially Asian actor. So now they're going with sterotypes. How is that any better?

I usually do not have a problem with changing a character's race, but Danny Rand and Snake-Eyes shouldn't be Asian. The only character whose race shouldn't be changed more than them is James Bond, unless they finally admit its a code-name and there's more than one Bond. (Maybe he's a Time Lord?!)

And to answer daglob, if I remember right the Kun'lun are extradimensional beings.

Title: Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
Post by: SickAlice on November 07, 2019, 02:00:54 AM
I just got rid of Netflix in favor of Prime, doesn't sound like I'm missing anything. After the price hike, Jones ending and Netflix being way too focused on their own content it didn't seem like a good option anymore. Plus Prime opens me to Disney as well CBS for the new Picard show. Tbh I wasn't very into the Netflix shows anyways short of Jones.

Far as the casting...I guess I couldn't care. Not enough about Iron Fist anyways. I do see where changing him would dither the essence of the character at least in being a prototypical upperclass white boy learning to appreciate Asian lore but perhaps that concept just isn't with the times anyways. Yet in the end as long as it's entertaining and the actor puts on a good show that's all that matters to me imo. That's about the limit of thought I can put into it really.