Freedom Reborn

Freedom Force Forums => Freedom Force Discussion => Topic started by: daglob on March 11, 2016, 04:25:49 AM

Title: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: daglob on March 11, 2016, 04:25:49 AM
This started because I like looking at old (and I mean old) skins. I studied Kenn X, Vigilante, Copper Age, Dark Jared, and all the rest. I haunted all the link pages and explored the Freedom Force Web Ring (remember that?). When I found Mad Rabbit's page, I was overjoyed (yeah, yeah, I need to get a life).

Skindex disappeared soon after I started collecting, and I never saw a lot of other sites, like The Hub, Gammapatrol, or FF Underground.

And the situation has only gotten worse.

This present posting is prompted by finding an archive of an old incarnation of NPI that has a lot of working links (as well as a lot of dead ones) to skins and meshes. There are several hundred of these, almost six hundred including a couple of side trails to other archived pages with working links. There are many other archives that do not have any working links; these are gone.

What I'm thinking is, what are we going to do to preserve all this work? Some creators are gone, may have moved on, even a couple of active community members have old pages that they have lost track of. Is there anything we can do?

For instance, I found two version of R.T. Tingle's avatar, regular and something like Age of Volt. No one has permission to post them anyplace for the community to have access (I'm hoping he might drop by for a quick visit and say "Sure, go ahead"). The original pulp-themed avatar is quite nice, and the alternate is kinda spooky. I hate that no one can access them without going through the Wayback Machine (although I am glad that these two, at least for now, can be accessed that way)

What I hope we can do is toss ideas around and make a decision. We don't have word from all those who have gone before us, left the community, or passed on. But what can we do? Myself, I have always figured that anything I posted was given to all who wanted it. I would hope that if someone re-posts it, they would be sure I got credit. But if not, I can't really complain, it was a GIFT. Some whom have left the community probably felt the same way. Others might not have.

So, what can we do?

Comments, ideas, plans, criticisms?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 11, 2016, 04:26:47 AM
P.S.: This is what happens when you retire and have 'way too much time on your hands.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: spydermann93 on March 11, 2016, 04:46:03 AM
I'm completely on board with this initiative.  Honestly, I've always been of the mind that if I host something for the community to use, then re-posts are fine with me.  Kind of comes as a package deal.  I never really saw the need for somebody to ask me to rehost my stuff, and while credits are nice, I don't really mind if I'm not mentioned.  Of course, it goes with saying that I always credit other authors when using their work.  I'm kinda weird like that :P

Anyways, if there were a file hosting service that somebody knows about, please let the community know.  I used to always use Filefront (now Gamefront), but that site has become pretty unreliable (links go down within a few weeks or so).  Mediafire, at least for me, hosts up to 11GB of files for a FREE user, and the links seem to stay up for a very long time (I still find working links in the Forum Archives every now and then).

If people could start hosting files via Mediafire and posting the links to a shared thread, I think that could do wonders.

Another alternative is Dropbox. Somebody can share a dropbox folder and others can download content from it.  Unless the user pays for an account, it seems to hold less than Mediafire, but the links are also very stable and have a long life-time.

TL;DR: I'm all for rehosting, with credit to the authors, of course. Mediafire and Dropbox seem like the best, most viable options.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Klauser on March 11, 2016, 01:32:59 PM
I have many CD's worth of FF skins/meshes when I was backing up by burning CD's.  I'd me happy to donate copies to any "museum".
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: detourne_me on March 11, 2016, 02:41:51 PM
This has always interested me, too. Archiving all of the work would be an insane task, though.
Should the files be left as .zips in their compressed and originally released states?
Should they be preserved as a giant characters folder, with every mesh and skin open and accessible by CTool?

Is there a statute of limitations on permissions for rehosting?
In the past the rehosting issue caused huge rifts in the community, even for issues as simple as rehosting through inclusion in mods.

How about the 'black sheep' creators in our community that have made a ton of content, but were either ostracized or all ties were cut from the community?

Personally, I think a torrent would be the most economical and practical solution for sharing and archiving the files. We wouldnt have to worry about size limits like on Mediafire or Dropbox.

However for ease of access, Mediafire would be the best. Creator's content could be organized in folders across dirrent accounts. Kind of a less prohibitive yahoogroups.

In the next couple weeks ill look through my files, see if i have any lost treasures.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 11, 2016, 06:20:28 PM
I'm a member of a Yahoo group that posts scans of old magazines, and one of the most used resources is Mediafire. Some links do go missing, and they sometimes get funny about copyright (although while Dr. Octopus might raise a red flag, Male Pudgy Tentacles might not), but by and large it's an excellent system.

I understand they are more careful and picky since Rapidshare was shut down.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 17, 2016, 03:51:29 AM
I'm going to keep moving this to the top so everyone can see it.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: OrWolvie1 on March 17, 2016, 04:21:20 AM
I, too, have been accumulating various meshes, maps, FX's, scopes, keyframes, heads, Mods, etc over the last several years and am willing to share what I can with whomever wants it and would be willing to donate my library as well.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Cyber Burn on March 17, 2016, 04:28:41 AM
My Library is open to anyone who is interested as well.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: OrWolvie1 on March 17, 2016, 04:35:05 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on March 17, 2016, 04:28:41 AM
My Library is open to anyone who is interested as well.

ok. I want your library ;)
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 17, 2016, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: OrWolvie1 on March 17, 2016, 04:35:05 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on March 17, 2016, 04:28:41 AM
My Library is open to anyone who is interested as well.

ok. I want your library ;)

Don't we all, Wolvie, don't we all.

Although, actually, CB is very generous in sharing his collection.

DeTournme raised these issues:

QuoteIs there a statute of limitations on permissions for rehosting?

In the past the rehosting issue caused huge rifts in the community, even for issues as simple as rehosting through inclusion in mods.

How about the 'black sheep' creators in our community that have made a ton of content, but were either ostracized or all ties were cut from the community?

Personally, I think a torrent would be the most economical and practical solution for sharing and archiving the files. We wouldn't have to worry about size limits like on Mediafire or Dropbox.

However for ease of access, Mediafire would be the best. Creator's content could be organized in folders across different accounts. Kind of a less prohibitive yahoogroups.

IS there a statute of limitation on posting files?

It seems we have people interested in this idea, but what is the best way to preserve the content?

What about those people who are no longer in the community and cannot be reached?

There are people who included something like "if you re-post this or use it in a mod please give me credit" in their readme files; I would think that this means we can preserve their work, since we would be re-posting it.

Is there anyone besides IPS who would absolutely object to their stuff being posted?

How would we post a torrent? What kind of longevity would it have?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: OrWolvie1 on March 17, 2016, 03:30:31 PM
Quote from: daglob on March 17, 2016, 03:12:06 PM
Quote from: OrWolvie1 on March 17, 2016, 04:35:05 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on March 17, 2016, 04:28:41 AM
My Library is open to anyone who is interested as well.

ok. I want your library ;)

Don't we all, Wolvie, don't we all.

Although, actually, CB is very generous in sharing his collection.

DeTournme raised these issues:

QuoteIs there a statute of limitations on permissions for rehosting?

In the past the rehosting issue caused huge rifts in the community, even for issues as simple as rehosting through inclusion in mods.

How about the 'black sheep' creators in our community that have made a ton of content, but were either ostracized or all ties were cut from the community?

Personally, I think a torrent would be the most economical and practical solution for sharing and archiving the files. We wouldn't have to worry about size limits like on Mediafire or Dropbox.

However for ease of access, Mediafire would be the best. Creator's content could be organized in folders across different accounts. Kind of a less prohibitive yahoogroups.

IS there a statute of limitation on posting files?

It seems we have people interested in this idea, but what is the best way to preserve the content?

What about those people who are no longer in the community and cannot be reached?

There are people who included something like "if you re-post this or use it in a mod please give me credit" in their readme files; I would think that this means we can preserve their work, since we would be re-posting it.

Is there anyone besides IPS who would absolutely object to their stuff being posted?

How would we post a torrent? What kind of longevity would it have?

All valid points in my opinion. I would say, in my limited experience with the intricacies of these things, that those who created said meshes/skopes/maps/fx or whatever, if they didn't want them shared with others, then why post them in public domains in the first place? Why not just keep it to themselves? I understand that part of it is for acceptance and appreciation of their peers in the community, but if they cannot be reached for permissions to host them, and as long as their original work isn't modified in any way, or claimed as the work of others, why should they be lost forever, instead of shared and enjoyed by future generations who are perhaps just discovering FF and the community for the first time? And seeing the fine works of those who have come before, perhaps it may inspire some of these people to go on and create fine works of their own? I know, in my own experience, that is part of what made me decide to take the task of trying to create this massive undertaking that I have chosen to partake of, to share with others, some of these works, as well as to try and give back to a community who has given so much of itself to myself and so many others throughout the years.

But, as with anything else, this is just my own opinion.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Amazo Version 2.2 on March 17, 2016, 06:59:06 PM
would it matter if the files were in their original zip file as opposed to being repackaged?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: President Raygun on March 18, 2016, 12:10:21 AM
Hey guys, just wanted to add that a few years back I started the process of downloading every file from every available yahoo group I could get into, granted once it became more of a chore the ol' procrastination set in and only got about halfway through, but do have a lot of the multi yahoo group posters (Phantom Stranger, C6, Renegade, KSSaint) all in one simple folder if that's useful to anyone. I've downloaded as much from the old NPI and Gamma Patrol as I could through the Wayback Machine, plus I also have a long, long list of yahoo goups. If anybody's interested just give me a heads up in this thread or pm me. (BTW guys if you are using Firefox and haven't already, you should install the Downthemall extension, really makes downloading files faster)
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Cyber Burn on March 18, 2016, 01:15:53 AM
Quote from: Amazo Version 2.2 on March 17, 2016, 06:59:06 PM
would it matter if the files were in their original zip file as opposed to being repackaged?

I would say that the original Zip Files would be preferred.

Quote from: President Raygun on March 18, 2016, 12:10:21 AM
Hey guys, just wanted to add that a few years back I started the process of downloading every file from every available yahoo group I could get into, granted once it became more of a chore the ol' procrastination set in and only got about halfway through, but do have a lot of the multi yahoo group posters (Phantom Stranger, C6, Renegade, KSSaint) all in one simple folder if that's useful to anyone. I've downloaded as much from the old NPI and Gamma Patrol as I could through the Wayback Machine, plus I also have a long, long list of yahoo goups. If anybody's interested just give me a heads up in this thread or pm me. (BTW guys if you are using Firefox and haven't already, you should install the Downthemall extension, really makes downloading files faster)

I would love to add your List of Yahoo Groups to mine, especially since I'm sure you probably have more than I do.  :D

I think it's pretty well known that I have a very strong desire to see the Artwork created by our Community preserved, my only concern here is in respecting our Content Creators. Would they be alright with us publicly posting, hosting, or re-distributing their work? While I know it's been done in the past with the likes of Texas Jack, Vertex, Renegade, Etc., there are past Members whose Work, I'm sorry to say, that I just would not touch.

Personally, I was devastated when FXForce and FRP2 went down, and I'm sure I'll feel the same if the Gryphon's Site ever goes down as well. That being said, where does that leave us now?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 18, 2016, 01:34:25 AM
My god, think what would happen if Alex's site ever disappeared. Half the time, if I need a mesh or skin and I know it's there, I go get it from him rather and sift through all these DVDs.

I would say that the best way to preserve them would be to use the original file. I wouldn't be against creating new archives so long as they included the original readme or credit file. We might could start a thread in the Skins forum called "Who Made Me?" for those without documentation.

What about work that is, so far as I can tell, only available through a Mod?

Speaking of Mods, what about them? We have The Mod Graveyard, but how many are no longer available? Do we preserve them also? What about SFX? What about maps? Or should we take this one step at a time?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: OrWolvie1 on March 18, 2016, 04:32:55 AM
Quote from: daglob on March 18, 2016, 01:34:25 AM
My god, think what would happen if Alex's site ever disappeared. Half the time, if I need a mesh or skin and I know it's there, I go get it from him rather and sift through all these DVDs.

I would say that the best way to preserve them would be to use the original file. I wouldn't be against creating new archives so long as they included the original readme or credit file. We might could start a thread in the Skins forum called "Who Made Me?" for those without documentation.

What about work that is, so far as I can tell, only available through a Mod?

Speaking of Mods, what about them? We have The Mod Graveyard, but how many are no longer available? Do we preserve them also? What about SFX? What about maps? Or should we take this one step at a time?

I would say that we should, over time, try and preserve as much as we can, and yes, that would include Mods, FX, Maps, Scopes and Skins. So much work has been put into both  :ff: and  :ffvstr: over the years by so many people who have either chosen to move on, or been forced to for a variety of reasons. I would like to preserve  all the content that those of us who remain have enjoyed over the years, as well as what kept us entertained all this time, to pass along to those who are coming along, discovering the games for the first time. Every so often I see a new face, who has read a variety of posts regarding this mod, or this mesh or skin that was hosted at a site that is no longer available. What is to keep these people interested in participating, contributing as others have, without examples of what has gone before? Perhaps we'll have a whole new generation of Modders, Skinnners, Map makers. Who knows?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Outcast on March 18, 2016, 04:37:59 AM
Maybe you guys could start a thread (or maybe multiple threads thereafter if needed)listing or showcasing pics/previews (with corresponding names of course) some of these lost/unhosted files you've found. From these threads, people could look and see if they would like any of those files and would simply reply to make any requests. Then you guys could send them what you have. The thread could be stickied to either the request subforum or the Freedom Force subforum page.

For those really lost skins/meshes/skopes. Posting pics could also be a way of preserving their memory. Maybe some of you guys could also try to recreate them? I think even the people dealing with archeology and historical artifacts do try to recreate some of these lost/partial treasures/evidences of the past they've discovered. :P :wacko:
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 18, 2016, 04:48:38 AM
That's what I've been doing with Copper Age, and the new version of older skins I've been doing for more recent meshes. But most current skinners work on more contemporary subjects. :)

Think what some of the older creators could have done with Nifscope or Blender...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: abenavides on March 19, 2016, 03:31:53 PM
Interesting thread.
Happy to help if I can (there's likely stuff on my backup drives I've forgotten about).

Another thought re: storage - MS Onedrive. It's free and I think a share (or a folder in it) can be made public . I need to experiment with a bit more.
Similar to Dropbox.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Shazam on March 19, 2016, 06:02:28 PM
You say you found an old NPI site? Were there any links to Voltimax's work at all?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 19, 2016, 06:49:08 PM
There was so much stuff I don't remember.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Cyber Burn on March 19, 2016, 08:01:10 PM
Quote from: Shazam on March 19, 2016, 06:02:28 PM
You say you found an old NPI site? Were there any links to Voltimax's work at all?

How far back, approximately, would we need to look for Voltimax? Would it just be NPI, or were there any other sites?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 19, 2016, 08:09:18 PM
I found his stuff at NPI; all the links are dead, but they were the same skins that were at his Yahoo group.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Deaths Jester on March 25, 2016, 07:53:05 PM
I guess I'd okay my stuff being resurrected...perhaps...maybe....would def want credit though..and some chowder...where be this chowder you speak of?!?!?!
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: baley on March 26, 2016, 07:11:48 AM
As a newish member, I would relish the opportunity to play catchup!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Shazam on March 29, 2016, 10:53:11 PM
I've been away for around 8 years, but before I left, I put alot of stuff onto CD's. I've got a few old FF mods, meshes, skins, fx, keyframes etc.
I think I deleted my yahoo group and that had installers for the original invulnerable attribute grades, toughguy2, bodyaura and other stuff I'd played with and shared involving python coding. I had made a mod that was going to feature on the NPI site. That mod alone had some original custom skins made by previous members/friends here. It's all lost forever now.
Anyway, I'm more than happy to share what I'd aquired over my time here.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on March 30, 2016, 12:18:08 AM
Somebody get that man a Yahoo Group or Mediafire Account or something!
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: OrWolvie1 on March 30, 2016, 02:00:51 AM
Quote from: daglob on March 30, 2016, 12:18:08 AM
Somebody get that man a Yahoo Group or Mediafire Account or something!

Agreed. Looking back over the years, there was so much created, so much talent that has since moved on, for one reason or another. I guess my question in all this would have to be, for those of us who remain, and those who come after, should we let all that great work fade into obscurity? Or should we, as loyal, respectful members of the community, preserve that which has come before, perhaps as a beacon to those who come after, as a guide of what can be achieved, a spark to those with the talent to create even more? OR do we let it all go, and watch as the game, it's vast potential, and the creative potential be lost forever?

I, for one, don't want to see that happen. I thoroughly enjoy the game, the creations that have been done before, see the potential for the future, and with the utmost respect to the creators and their works, wish to share all that, unless expressly forbidden to do so, which, in my opinion would be a true shame.

(Yes, I know, I'm beating a dead horse, but that's just how I feel about it)

*Steps down off his soapbox now and goes back to lurking quietly in the back of the room*
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Panther_Gunn on April 23, 2016, 05:01:49 PM
Has this worthy topic died, or has it just gone into the background?  I think we're at a time where we do need to start gathering content before it's lost, and hopefully managed by people who are at least somewhat active and able to respond to questions and requests.

Should we compile a list of what sites/creators we're looking to gather together, perhaps balanced by a list of sites that are still active?  I think Cyber burn has gotten a large chunk of the latter done.  Maybe we should get a Yahoo Group (for as long as they last) set up as a central point of reference, with multiple active members having full admin privileges so it doesn't fall to just one person all the time, and probably do the same thing for where we actually gather the content.

I would be willing to help manage some aspects of this, but I think like most of us now, it will be time permitting.  If we get enough dedicated people I think it should be fairly resistant to the ravages of time.

Unless I'm overstepping a bit, then this can all be safely disregarded.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Amazo Version 2.2 on April 23, 2016, 05:37:16 PM
hey panther, i think cyber said that he made a bunch of people owners or editors or something like that to his resource group,  i'm sure he'd take all the help he could get to maintain the group.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: BentonGrey on April 23, 2016, 06:33:04 PM
I support 100% any actions the community wants to take to preserve our materials, but I am too busy these days to take an active role in those efforts.  If we've got folks willing to pitch in, I say let's do compiles some lists and start gathering materials.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on April 23, 2016, 08:07:01 PM
I said I was gonna keep this moving to the top, but I've been sick.

I've saved Madd Rabbit's links page, and that would give us a start on old sites. There is a really good links page from NPI at The Wayback Machine, too, and I think there is an archive of one of the other link pages, too.

Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on April 23, 2016, 08:08:40 PM
Oh, yeah, and someone dish up a bowl of chowder for DJ...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on April 23, 2016, 08:15:16 PM
http://www.geocities.com/freedomportal/links.html               look for a capture from 2005}

http://newpowerinc.com/Links_page.htm       look for a capture around 2007

http://www.venustechstudios.com/FreedomForce/ff-links.htm       the capture from 2006 looks like the first one I ever saw...

:edit:

For some reason the first address doesn't work, although I copied it from a page at the Wayback Machine. The other two do.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on May 04, 2016, 11:23:36 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20060220020214/http://www.geocities.com/freedomportal/

See if this works. Click on Links.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on May 26, 2016, 02:12:13 AM
This is a little bump. Been under the weather (second blood pressure medicine caused the same side effects as the first), but I haven't forgotten this.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: detourne_me on May 26, 2016, 12:47:42 PM
With recent troubles at yahoo groups, and other bad news about Yahoo, (a student told me that Marissa Mayer is being ousted) I think it might be a good idea to start ripping all the content possible from yahoo groups.  Mediafire is really generous with free space, so I will host my yahoogroup content there, even if mediafire isn't entirely stable all the time.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: abenavides on May 26, 2016, 08:41:25 PM
I was just thinking that detourne_me.
I've been collecting everything on all the groups I'm on, but I'm sure there's plenty of groups I'm not on (or even aware of)
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Deaths Jester on May 27, 2016, 06:35:17 PM
If not Mediafire, might I suggest Mega Cloud Drive? Link: https://mega.nz/ (https://mega.nz/)

50GBs should be more than enough for most skins....
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: spydermann93 on May 27, 2016, 07:44:04 PM
Seems like plenty, to me! I don't even think that my collection takes that much, lol :P
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: daglob on May 27, 2016, 08:42:22 PM
Some of the contributors to the previously mentioned pulp scan group use it, and it works very well.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: miguelyanke on May 31, 2016, 10:14:40 AM
Quote from: daglob on May 04, 2016, 11:23:36 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20060220020214/http://www.geocities.com/freedomportal/

See if this works. Click on Links.

Freedom portal!!!! TT_TT my gosh, I'm too old XD


About storing, I don't know if it's definitive but I've been using Mega (using different accounts if necesary) to store files, with an invitation (better than doing public) anyone can add (if permited) or download files and you can use folders to separate from authors.


Soon I'll pm Daglob all the content i had downloaded years ago.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Reepicheep on May 31, 2016, 11:42:00 AM
Quote from: daglob on May 04, 2016, 11:23:36 PM
https://web.archive.org/web/20060220020214/http://www.geocities.com/freedomportal/

See if this works. Click on Links.

I'm not sure I ever saw that news update on the front page. That was touching.

Wish I could remember what I did to deserve a mention!
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on June 08, 2016, 09:24:40 PM
Just a gentle little bump...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on July 10, 2016, 07:03:37 PM
Miguelyanke sent me a bunch of stuff. I mean A WHOLE BUNCH. I'm kind of stunned trying to figure out what to do with it.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on July 14, 2016, 02:19:57 AM
Still stunned, but this is a little bump. Kind of goes along with what Alex is saying about maps.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: spydermann93 on July 14, 2016, 02:22:44 AM
I guess Mediafire would be a good place to hold it?

A free account can hold 11GB. At least, that's the deal I got.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: OrWolvie1 on July 14, 2016, 03:22:50 AM
Quote from: spydermann93 on July 14, 2016, 02:22:44 AM
I guess Mediafire would be a good place to hold it?

A free account can hold 11GB. At least, that's the deal I got.

Same here
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: Cyber Burn on July 14, 2016, 05:42:18 AM
Quote from: daglob on July 14, 2016, 02:19:57 AM
Still stunned, but this is a little bump. Kind of goes along with what Alex is saying about maps.

Share the wealth my stretchy friend.  :D
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: Cyber Burn on July 16, 2016, 09:27:07 AM
I found this during my travels, quite interesting, and way before my time:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020803093902/http://ooleyman.home.attbi.com/

Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on July 16, 2016, 01:01:33 PM
I have a Mediafire account now. it will take some time to go through this stuff and upload. I'll start with Miguelyanke's stuff.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on July 17, 2016, 03:16:27 PM
I've checked these out, and they all seem to load. Some, like Sarcasm-Hime's and Starlock's pages, do not seem to have any working links. I didn't check them all, thus, one or two may have only one or two working links; those I checked. There are a couple of sites that have just information on them which I didn't include; maybe later.

https://sites.google.com/site/xptosfreedom/Home
http://tommyboymeshes.freedomforceforever.com/index.html
http://originalvigilante2.tripod.com/
http://www.strangefate.com/Freebies/index.htm
http://starlockforfreedom.bravepages.com/
http://www.skinventory.freedomforceforever.com/
http://sarcasm-hime.net/freedomforce.html
https://sites.google.com/site/podmark1/index22
http://freedomforceforever.com/
http://www.ivantek.com/freedom_force_page_1.htm
http://ffx.freedomforceforever.com/downloads.htm
http://forceofparadox.byethost31.com/index.html
http://freedomforce.ewzzy.com/
http://idd01px5.eresmas.net/ffskins.html
http://www.ereshkigal.demon.co.uk/
http://catman.freedomforceforever.com/index.html
http://www.alexff.com/index.php

I know Catman/Sick Alice has an older site that is still there, but I don;'t have a link for it, and I found part of Lord Emshiddey's site still in existence, but can't find it now. There is another page of Vigilante's stuff i can't seem to find now, either. It includes Lego characters.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: Cyber Burn on July 17, 2016, 04:16:03 PM
I'll check my Links tonight and see if I can add to this.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: abenavides on July 17, 2016, 06:40:23 PM
Add Dr. Mike's Stuff:

http://fundamentzero.com/index_games.htm


And Vigilante's lego people are here:
http://originallegolante.tripod.com/index.html
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on July 17, 2016, 08:05:18 PM
I've started a new thread for this exact function. This one will continue to have discussions about what to do concerning saving the stuff from this silly game. I hope...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on August 27, 2016, 11:34:56 AM
This whole blood pressure medicine thing is deja vu all over again.

Anyway, bump.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on September 26, 2016, 12:23:12 AM
 :blink:
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on November 17, 2016, 11:00:29 PM
Moving this to the top again.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: crosspotts1.0 on December 23, 2016, 11:51:39 PM
if ur all looking for some one to arcive all u have look no further

soon i will be qitting my job to wach my son

and i would like to under take the the daunting task of holding on to every thing if u send me what u have ill look over it for us for all of time

also how would u like it grouped by creator or by mesh,skin,fx,hero files,maps,hexes,mods,keyframes or would u like me to put all of the skins for a mesh in that meshes skins folders and or group them by comic industry

id like to know if thats good with all of u 

:ff: :ffvstr: forever ur freind crosspotts1.0
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on January 05, 2017, 05:11:35 AM
Plugging this into The Wayback Machine  http://skinventory.freedomforceforever.com/index.php   and setting the viewed page to something in 2008 gives you an active set of pages that have working links! If you don't have them, get them quick, before they get lost like the stuff from NPI. I have tried this with Sarcasm-Himie's page, but with no results.

I have added this information to the Living List.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: WyldFyre on January 05, 2017, 01:26:35 PM
Thanks DG. Been looking for some of these.  Couldn't remember where I had seen them before.  You da MAN!
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on January 05, 2017, 03:34:45 PM
Pulled from the Living List


Update on Starlock: Plugging this into The Wayback Machine   http://web.archive.org/web/20070509183223/http://starlockforfreedom.bravepages.com/  and check different captures and you can find several links that are still active (some are active on one capture, not on another)

If you don't have them and you want them, well, what are you waiting for?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 14, 2017, 03:55:18 PM
Just noticed this topic.  If someone wanted to archive these sites and files to somewhere we control, I can offer some space at freedomforceforever.com.  I have neither the time nor the patience to do it myself, but choose a few people to be in charge of it and I can set you up with a subdomain and fttp access.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on January 14, 2017, 04:56:56 PM
That would be great. I know I started this thread, but unless my life calms down I can't do it (lots of doctor visits, lots of waiting).

But how do we archive them? Can we save the old stuff without the creator's permission? I have Tommy Troy's permission to post his creations, but what about anyone else? A lot of this old stuff is just for completist's sake, but I study the old skins (like I study old comic book art) to see "How They Did It". I'm sure others do too. As I've said, some of the ingenuity behind these old skins and meshes astounds me. Do we search the Wayback Machine for stuff that is no longer available and put it at Freedom Force Forever, or what?

Can we do like Cyber Burn has done and post zips of massed old characters, or something like just a web page with individual links to all the characters on it? It's been years, but once upon a time there were simple bare-bones pages that consisted of links to the stuff you wanted.

C'mon guys, Cat's offering us something great, we need to figure out how to use it.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: WyldFyre on January 14, 2017, 06:54:38 PM
I know nothing about setting up web pages or downloads, but I have some free time and would be willing. 

I guess we would need to know what would be allowed and how we would want to present it. Like Alex by creator? Or more generic? And permissions from former content creators?

And how would you want to handle any who are no longer with us?

I think it could be a great resource for us.

I will help however I can.  If someone can teach me the basics of this I would be willing to work on it.

Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: WyldFyre on January 15, 2017, 04:45:04 PM
Hey Daglob, any other takers on this?

I would be willing to do a lot of the heavy lifting on this if we could get a consensus on content and how to provide it.

I really hate to see a lot of the content vanish due to being lost on the internet.

Keep me in mind.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: daglob on January 15, 2017, 07:19:05 PM
I certainly don't have any reservations to your handling it. No one else has chimed in... so I'd say the job is yours. ^_^
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-Bump
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 15, 2017, 07:54:07 PM
I'm good with WyldFyre taking the job.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: WyldFyre on January 15, 2017, 09:31:23 PM
Okey dokey.  So how do we want to do this.  Preserve individual files? Whole sites where possible? Links to wayback pages?

Again, I'll be learning as I go.  Making links is fairly easy I think, but how do you guys want to do this?

I'll PM Cat and see what we can see.

I think between the 3 of us we have an awful lot of older content, I'd love to see it have a home.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 15, 2017, 09:34:33 PM
Give me a minute, and I'll shoot you a PM regarding this.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 16, 2017, 12:27:11 AM
I am just glad to have my little metasite still being useful.  I had thought about retiring it a while back, but then I checked the activity logs and found a decent amount of activity going on.  As long as you all keeping using it, it will remain and be available for more of these little projects.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: BentonGrey on January 16, 2017, 03:19:42 AM
Cat, I'm still using it relatively often, so I hope you'll keep it going for a nice long time!  It's a huge portion of the community!  If you ever do decide to retire it, I hope you'll let me know.  If I could swing it, I'd keep it going.

Guys, I just want to say thanks to all of y'all for your efforts.  Y'all are heroes of the community!  :D
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: WyldFyre on January 16, 2017, 02:27:30 PM
Okay Guys,

This is going to happen.

I am working with Cat to get it set up and will try to keep updates current as it progresses.

Now on to some questions for everyone.

1. Do we want this set up by creator. (ie. Copper Age, Paradox, etc.)
2. Do we want to preserve original web pages where available? Would that require permission from the original person/people involved?
3. For unknown artists, how do we want to proceed?
4. There are a lot of creators who are no longer with us and therefore can't give permission. Do we want to provide their content as well?

And last but not least.  Is there a program to allow me to design this thing without costing me an arm and a leg?

As a last note, I asked Cat to name it "FFMuseum". I hope that suits you guys.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 16, 2017, 04:15:50 PM
It's set up on my end.  The website address is probably working now for some of you, although it will take about an hour to propagate everywhere.  There's nothing actually there, however, unless you really like 404 errors, but actually address does exist now.  WyldFyre can begin work whenever he likes and if others want to help him upload things, I can create additional accounts as needed.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 16, 2017, 04:17:01 PM
1. Do we want this set up by creator. (ie. Copper Age, Paradox, etc.)

I would lean toward subject matter on this one (DC, Marvel, Etc.), for Skins, then maybe a separate, alphabetized list for Meshes?

2. Do we want to preserve original web pages where available? Would that require permission from the original person/people involved?

I would say no to this, just so that we could combine aspects from different Pages. Also, since there are so many people that we are not going to be able to get permissions from, we're going to have to have another debate about that.

3. For unknown artists, how do we want to proceed?

Again, this is another topic we're going to have to have a debate on. We pass Skins and Meshes on individually, but properly hosting them is another thing entirely.

4. There are a lot of creators who are no longer with us and therefore can't give permission. Do we want to provide their content as well?

I would say, maybe have separate page as a "Tribute to the Fallen", and give a list of current Members that they can PM here to Request those Member's Work.

5. And last but not least.  Is there a program to allow me to design this thing without costing me an arm and a leg?

Before life got all screwy on me, a similar option was was offered by someone (And I am really kicking myself for not taking it), but a Program called WebDwarf that is supposed to be good with FireFox was highly recommended.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 16, 2017, 05:16:45 PM
I'll give you guys permission to post any of my old stuff with one caveat...remove my email addys in the Readme sections. Reason being, most of my old stuff has email addys that are now dead...otherwise - if you find it and it's mine, you got an ok from me to host it on this idea.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: WyldFyre on January 16, 2017, 06:55:28 PM
Thanks DJ. I will do my best to keep those email addys out.

@CB. I guess a good place to start might be with a list of creators. Has there ever been a list compiled?
I have skins somewhat organized by creator on a drive, but a lot of the skins I have need to be organized.

Also, I don't want to be repetitive to other sites like the Freedom Fortress, or LP's site or Heroforce. And definitely don't want to step on anyone's hosted content.

@DaGlob. Getting ready to look at your PM now.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 16, 2017, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: WyldFyre on January 16, 2017, 06:55:28 PM

@CB. I guess a good place to start might be with a list of creators. Has there ever been a list compiled?
I have skins somewhat organized by creator on a drive, but a lot of the skins I have need to be organized.

Also, I don't want to be repetitive to other sites like the Freedom Fortress, or LP's site or Heroforce. And definitely don't want to step on anyone's hosted content.


I think the Skin Megalist might be a good place to start as far as creating a list of Content Creators go.

And as far as the Content itself goes, I'd say to keep it a Museum, stick to the really old, no longer hosted, stuff.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: WyldFyre on January 16, 2017, 07:41:03 PM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on January 16, 2017, 07:06:36 PM
And as far as the Content itself goes, I'd say to keep it a Museum, stick to the really old, no longer hosted, stuff.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe try to salvage the older stuff from Yahoo groups etc. I'll try to get some organized and up this week as a preview.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Panther_Gunn on January 16, 2017, 08:04:18 PM
I would also agree that we stick to only content that no longer has an active host (things only found floating around in the Wayback Machine would qualify as no hosting).  I would also consider anything that's still accessible from a Yahoo Group to be hosted.  We may want to consider having "backups" of the content from any YG that we haven't heard from the creator in a while, in the event that the Group does go away, but not have that content in the Museum as long as it's still accessible in the YG.

Obviously, we'd work with any creators that we can still get ahold of for permissions, but I think that anyone we haven't heard from in quite a while, who has left no stated opinion on the subject, should also be included in the list of things we put on the site.  There should be a conspicuous note on the front page of the site that all content is subject to removal at the creator's request, and have a very obvious address or link for someone to make such a request.

Should we have a list of creators, and their stated positions on hosting, posted somewhere (if it already exists I'm not aware of where it is)?  It could help keep down questions like "hey, can you put stuff from X on the site?".

As far as categorizing it, I would lean more towards grouping it by creator, sub-grouped into skins and meshes, and then each sub-grouped into companies (Marvel, DC, Image, etc.).  The main reason I have for that is that quite a few made content that don't fit neatly into the main comic companies (Star Wars, Transformers, D&D), as well as original content.  It mirrors how many sites are currently (Alex, Tommy) as well as sites in the past.  I think it will be easier to categorize, but that may just be me.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 16, 2017, 10:39:10 PM
One thing to consider with a creator list is those creators that posted only a few things. That happened a lot in the early days of FF, esp when Freedom Force Center was the ultimate hosting site for FF skins. Do you want to include them on the list or consider putting them as a single collection in the Museum?

Also, I agree with PG on the original content handling. I mean, most of NPI skins were originals that fit into a single universe that every poster/creator supported and had equal input on...including myself.

Def say there needs to be special spots for folks like Gryphon, Beyonder, Copper Age, and Firestorm along with the original FXForce crew. Without them, a lot of things wouldn't have happened in the early days. They pushed ideas and found things that many of us didn't even think was possible at the time. Course, that's just my opinion...

Note: My Frp stuff shouldn't be included as I've gained hosting for them and a few newer/unreleased things. :)
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: WyldFyre on January 17, 2017, 12:39:08 AM
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on January 16, 2017, 08:04:18 PM
I would also agree that we stick to only content that no longer has an active host (things only found floating around in the Wayback Machine would qualify as no hosting).  I would also consider anything that's still accessible from a Yahoo Group to be hosted.  We may want to consider having "backups" of the content from any YG that we haven't heard from the creator in a while, in the event that the Group does go away, but not have that content in the Museum as long as it's still accessible in the YG.

Obviously, we'd work with any creators that we can still get ahold of for permissions, but I think that anyone we haven't heard from in quite a while, who has left no stated opinion on the subject, should also be included in the list of things we put on the site.  There should be a conspicuous note on the front page of the site that all content is subject to removal at the creator's request, and have a very obvious address or link for someone to make such a request.

Should we have a list of creators, and their stated positions on hosting, posted somewhere (if it already exists I'm not aware of where it is)?  It could help keep down questions like "hey, can you put stuff from X on the site?".

As far as categorizing it, I would lean more towards grouping it by creator, sub-grouped into skins and meshes, and then each sub-grouped into companies (Marvel, DC, Image, etc.).  The main reason I have for that is that quite a few made content that don't fit neatly into the main comic companies (Star Wars, Transformers, D&D), as well as original content.  It mirrors how many sites are currently (Alex, Tommy) as well as sites in the past.  I think it will be easier to categorize, but that may just be me.

Well said. Exactly where I was leaning. We should attempt to contact people, but I realize fully that some are a long shot at best.

Quote from: Deaths Jester on January 16, 2017, 10:39:10 PM
One thing to consider with a creator list is those creators that posted only a few things. That happened a lot in the early days of FF, esp when Freedom Force Center was the ultimate hosting site for FF skins. Do you want to include them on the list or consider putting them as a single collection in the Museum?

Also, I agree with PG on the original content handling. I mean, most of NPI skins were originals that fit into a single universe that every poster/creator supported and had equal input on...including myself.

Def say there needs to be special spots for folks like Gryphon, Beyonder, Copper Age, and Firestorm along with the original FXForce crew. Without them, a lot of things wouldn't have happened in the early days. They pushed ideas and found things that many of us didn't even think was possible at the time. Course, that's just my opinion...

Note: My Frp stuff shouldn't be included as I've gained hosting for them and a few newer/unreleased things. :)

I really miss the NPI stuff.

Some folks like Beyonder/Firestorm have pages at Alex's site. I wouldn't want to super-cede him on those creators. Gryphon, Copper and others should definitely have their work represented.

I am leaning toward the Creator/Universe/Content method as well. No disrespect meant to CB, but there is a vast amount of content by various artists that may make a Universe/Content/Creator method a bit confusing.

On a separate question.... Where do you guys stand on Hexed Meshes? As a general rule Nifskope has made the use of xxx_with_no_cape a little redundant. I mean most people can hide an object in Nifskope I think. However not hosting them may diminish what, at the time, was a considerable contribution to the game.  Opinions/thoughts?

On the creator list, I think each will have a page of work, but those who only made a few skins might not have to be divided by universe. I would like to maintain the continuity of using pics as links to zips, though some will be more involved than others.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: daglob on January 17, 2017, 01:01:45 AM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on January 16, 2017, 10:39:10 PM
Note: My Frp stuff shouldn't be included as I've gained hosting for them and a few newer/unreleased things. :)
:)

About unknown skins, a picture of the skin can be posted and identification requested. Most artists have distinctive styles, and it may just be that someone will see it who knows the creator. Other times, I have found a skin with no readme file, then later found the same skin with a readme. Why was it missing from the first skin? I don't know. But it might mean that someone will have seen the file can can tell who did it.

Sorting by company may be a problem. Look at my stuff (Or Vigilante's, or Copper Age's, or J.K. Carrier's or The Phantom Stranger's or...): I do skins from Fiction House, Quality Comics, Magazine Enterprises, Columbia Magazines, Rural Home, ACG, Street and Smith, Gleason, Harvey, Croydon, CMO, Charlton... you get the picture. And do we consider Fawcett, Quality, MLJ, and Charlton part of DC (including characters that have never appeared at DC)? Do we count Centaur (or any other company Martin Goodman had) as part of Marvel? Maybe do like Alex does: have each creator separate, and divide their sections into Marvel, DC, Original, and Other. I can see adding Image and maybe a few others (MLJ, for instance). How Do we handle those creators who did only one or two skins or meshes? I would say give all those with a small number of skins or meshes (5? 10?) a communal section. I have no idea what to call it. I have Miscellaneous folders on my computer, but I don't think we should have a section on a web site called that.

Hmmm... could we talk to Alex and see how he has the Freedom Fortress search?

I do feel that if someone created a skin or mesh (or FX or Mod or anything) and posted it someplace it could be downloaded, he intended for it to be used. Preserving it so people could continue to do that would be within their wishes.

Newer people who have no familiarity with Nifscope would benefit from having a section of hexes. I can't see giving it a lot of room, but I would have been lost without them in the beginning.

What about keyframes and SFX?

I am worried about the future of Yahoo. Heck, I'm worried about the present of it, since I have had stuff go missing already. That is why I have pulled a couple of items and sent them to Alex, and intend to send more. While I agree we don't need to double up, we might want to consider options on stuff in Yahoo groups.

Wait! Wait! I can see it now: a section called "The Unknown Skinner"...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 17, 2017, 02:28:21 AM
Mods should not be included, since I already have the Mod Graveyard for that purpose, although if someone wants to take it over and add more stuff to it, I'd be willing to allow that.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: WyldFyre on January 17, 2017, 02:43:39 AM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 17, 2017, 02:28:21 AM
Mods should not be included, since I already have the Mod Graveyard for that purpose, although if someone wants to take it over and add more stuff to it, I'd be willing to allow that.

Actually had some questions about this.

I don't know how many mods are unaccounted for. I have almost all of the FF (based on what I've read/found online) and with the exception of those on Alex's site and FFX I don't think most of them are hosted anywhere. The graveyard is a fabulous idea, but should we add to it? There are many no longer available anywhere else.

I think I may be a little busy with the museum to also tackle mods, but I would be willing to upload them somewhere if someone else wants to do it.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: BentonGrey on January 17, 2017, 02:51:55 AM
Good ideas, guys.  I'd say subdivisionsby DC, Marvel, Original, and Other would be the way to go, and I'd include in DC anything that is generally associated with them, like Captain Marvel and the Charlton characters.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: spydermann93 on January 17, 2017, 03:06:35 AM
Yeah, I think that categorization would work the best.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 17, 2017, 03:32:41 AM
While agree with Glob on many skinners having distinct styles, some have been a constant flux in styles. Take mine or C6's styles - we both were around during the beginning, trying to see what we could and couldn't do. If you look at our stuff from back then and compared them to our time on EF and then stuff after that, our styles changed majorly - some so much that one would think the skins were done by different skinners (I even have problems sometimes distingushing if an old skin I did is actually mine...due in part to the amount I've done and the vastly different style). But that's me rambling.

I think a section should be made for hexes because it was a major thing back when it came about. Before then, us skinners had to get a mesher (often an overworked one like Beyonder, Gren, Lord Embsy (sp?), Gyrus, and Andrew Davis) to create something that fit what we were looking for. Hexing opened doors for us to allow us to do things we weren't able to beforehand and also helped ease the workload of the meshers which allowed them to make meshes they wanted to make (Beyonder's Doc Ock comes to mind).

Damn, I'm starting to sound like an old geezer now..."back in my day, we used to skin with a pencil and pad, in the snow, without shoes or gloves..."

Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: daglob on January 17, 2017, 03:58:16 AM
"...going uphill... both ways..."

There are Yahoo Groups for base skins and lightmaps. I'd say not worry about those unless the groups go away. I think most of the variations of the Irrational meshes are available (Is El Diabo Super Sayan still around?).
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: spydermann93 on January 17, 2017, 04:26:17 AM
Quote from: daglob on January 17, 2017, 03:58:16 AM
"...going uphill... both ways..."

There are Yahoo Groups for base skins and lightmaps. I'd say not worry about those unless the groups go away. I think most of the variations of the Irrational meshes are available (Is El Diabo Super Sayan still around?).

Say WHAT!?! :blink:
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 17, 2017, 04:58:55 AM
While the base skins shouldn't be part of the original idea, it still would be smart to get them all in case they disappear from YGs.

As for El Diablo Super Sayan...unknown. If it is it would be on a YG most likely.

Off-topic: This whole talk is truly making me feel old and bringing about memories of the old days. Back when we used to skin jackets on male_basic meshes because there were no meshes with jackets and such...back when FF was brand new and everything was new and unexplored. Sigh, I'm just coming to terms of how long I've been skinning for this game and how many of the one's from back then have moved on or aren't with us anymore. And the fact that I'm still here...it doesn't feel right...

Ignore me and my off topicness...just an old goat rambling about the old days...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 17, 2017, 05:40:39 AM
That brings me back to the question of how we address Content created by members that we know are no longer with us. We can't really ask for their permission to host their work, but in the same respect, we don't want to lose these treasures either.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: daglob on January 17, 2017, 06:06:05 AM
Something I've noticed: everybody comes back once in awhile. Miguel Yanke, Thunder, Zapow, Tortuga, Shabobba, Dire Wolf... they have all been here in the past few months. There are probably others who drop in here every once in awhile. I think I'm going to send a few PMs to catch people when they pass through.

I'd say that if someone included a readme that said something like "use this any way you want just give me credit" would be clear. Others who have shuffled off this mortal coil, I don't know. We won't be treating them with disrespect.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: BentonGrey on January 17, 2017, 06:31:52 AM
On hexes, they are still useful, and it would be great to have access to them.  I often would raid NPI for different hexes for use with different skins or just for random filler characters in a mod.

I feel like, unless they have forbidden sharing or have issues with the community (and I can only really think of one example of that), then it would be better to give materials hosting, even without explicit permission.  This isn't like skoping or kitbashing.  All we're doing is keeping their work available, and I can't imagine anyone really being upset about that, considering we're going to have proper attribution.  As someone already said, if they released it in the first place, they wanted it to be available. 
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 17, 2017, 06:39:05 AM
As much as I agree with you guys, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

I have come across a few "Read Me" type Files that specifically say "Do not redistribute this Skin/Mesh/Whatever without my express permission".

So do we go through every single file to find which ones we need permission on? Do we weed those out?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: WyldFyre on January 17, 2017, 09:43:39 AM
Quote from: Cyber Burn on January 17, 2017, 06:39:05 AM
As much as I agree with you guys, I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

I have come across a few "Read Me" type Files that specifically say "Do not redistribute this Skin/Mesh/Whatever without my express permission".

So do we go through every single file to find which ones we need permission on? Do we weed those out?

I think if a readme says "do not redistribute" that's pretty clear that they didn't want their work showing up elsewhere. I'm not sure every file needs to be looked at, but a general sample of 2-3 should be taken, where available, to get a feel for what the artist may have wanted.

Quote from: BentonGrey on January 17, 2017, 06:31:52 AM
I feel like, unless they have forbidden sharing or have issues with the community (and I can only really think of one example of that)

Interestingly, I was just remembering that person and feeling a little sad that their work is off limits. Oh well. On to happier thoughts.

I think I want to use Copper's stuff as the first content to test things out. I am trying to set up a front page with the creator names which will lead to the separate pages of their work (much like Alex does).

Is there a list or cached page of his work?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: daglob on January 17, 2017, 05:11:55 PM
I'm not sure there is a list of anyone's work.

As far as reading all the readmes: it seems most people use a basic form for these. Reading one or two by a creator should be enough.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 18, 2017, 01:29:58 AM
Closest thing to a list of CA's work would be whatever the wayback machine can pull up on FFC. Know he posted a lot of stuff there in the beginning...otherwise, not really a list of stuff by creator around.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: daglob on January 18, 2017, 03:50:07 AM
Seems like FFC is one that is not at The Wayback Machine. Nor is The Hub.

Although I sent him a spreadsheet I made of Copper's skins.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 18, 2017, 04:28:28 AM
Really?!? So www.freedomforcecenter.com doesn't appear in the wayback...weird...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: daglob on January 18, 2017, 05:20:06 AM
From what I understand, they made it robot-proof, so the Wayback robots never get a copy. Or something like that; It made me think of he forthcoming robot revolution.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Panther_Gunn on January 18, 2017, 07:32:48 AM
I would echo BG's sentiments on hexes.  Not everyone is conversant with Nifskope (myself included), so hexes are still useful, especially for older skins that were made for specific hexed meshes (and no suitable "contemporary" replacement has bubbled up).  I've lost count of how many I've dug out of FXForce over the years.

On the inclusion of Copper's work:  am I missing something?  We've collected everything we could find of his in a couple of Yahoo Groups, so wouldn't that count as "current hosting"?  I know I haven't kept up, but would Psycho Pirate's work be a good test subject instead (unless his stuff is already somewhere again)?

For members that have passed on, I don't see any disrespect in making their work available for people to admire again.

For the less prolific creators, I think grouping them into one section would work best (possibly broken up alphabetically, if there's an issue with sheer numbers).  My first impulse would be to call it The Peanut Gallery, but it's not very comic-y.  Rogue's Gallery?  I'm sure there's something good that will occur to someone.

Quote from: WyldFyre on January 17, 2017, 09:43:39 AM
Quote from: BentonGrey on January 17, 2017, 06:31:52 AM
I feel like, unless they have forbidden sharing or have issues with the community (and I can only really think of one example of that)

Interestingly, I was just remembering that person and feeling a little sad that their work is off limits. Oh well. On to happier thoughts.

I had that specific example in mind as well when I made my post yesterday.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: WyldFyre on January 18, 2017, 08:09:06 AM
Quote from: Panther_Gunn on January 18, 2017, 07:32:48 AM
On the inclusion of Copper's work:  am I missing something?  We've collected everything we could find of his in a couple of Yahoo Groups, so wouldn't that count as "current hosting"?  I know I haven't kept up, but would Psycho Pirate's work be a good test subject instead (unless his stuff is already somewhere again)?

I only say Copper because of Yahoo's unreliability of late and the fact that with his body of work, I have a large # of skins to build pages off of to use as templates for other works. Psycho Pirate is actually at the top of the list as I really enjoyed his work.

I almost started to try an alphabetical approach, but a lot of the "A"s had only a few skins or hexes and I wanted to save the "group" pages until I am more comfortable with the process. I have somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 GB of skins to sort through. I think roughly 1/3 to maybe 1/2 of them may qualify for this project.  There was a LOT of content produced over the years.

@DaGlob: Thanks for the spreadsheet. Very helpful.


Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: daglob on January 18, 2017, 04:29:12 PM
There are a bunch of Psycho Pirate's skins (maybe all of them) among the stuff CB has, and I think I may have sent WF a copy of his web pages... He might be a good choice, since I don't think it is hosted anyplace.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: John Jr. on January 19, 2017, 02:22:57 AM
This is a impressive work, thanks to all the involved.
I believe we really need to have a "Museum" of sorts, with all kind of non-hosted files, because more and more sites are just going down. Older members (like myself) have backups, but we need create a way to preserve our history (and the very useful content of older creators) for new players.
This said, I agree with CB, we should leave alone the work of guys who left any kind of instructions against redistribution. About creators who left us, I'm with Panther_Gunn, preserve their work it's a way to honor them. Of course we should be able to remove the works of any creator who as us to do so.
Of course, any of my skopes/skins and mods can be re-hosted if needed.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 21, 2017, 01:02:31 AM
Quote from: daglob on January 18, 2017, 03:50:07 AM
Seems like FFC is one that is not at The Wayback Machine. Nor is The Hub.

Although I sent him a spreadsheet I made of Copper's skins.

Hey Daglob, could I please get a copy of that as well?
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Artemis on January 22, 2017, 03:41:53 AM
It's been so long since I checked into FR But it's so good to know people are maintaining the community's legacy; with that said I obviously allow anything I've made to be used freely - if anyone can find use for any skins or anything I've made they are welcome to use them however they wish.
I do miss FF - the game, the characters and the community they brought together helped me through adolescence and helped me discover my creativity which I will forever be greatful for.

I hope anyone who buys the game on steam or other platforms manages to find FR and the wonderful people who make it what it is.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: WyldFyre on January 25, 2017, 04:52:05 PM
Small update. 

Been working on this as I can. Had a few medical issues come up. Nothing serious, just time consuming.

I have decided to go with Psycho Pirates stuff first. (Fewer files to upload and set up.) I want to try to get a template for the pages so that other artists will be quicker to get up.

If all goes well, I hope to have something up next week. I'll keep you posted and I'll post in the Site updates forum when it is ready.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Cyber Burn on January 25, 2017, 06:58:09 PM
Glad to see you stop by Artemis, it's always nice to have our Alumni come by. I hope to see you around more often.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-NEW DEVELOPMENTS!
Post by: Klauser on January 29, 2017, 04:57:16 AM
Thanks for the email nudge, daglob - it is great to see a lot of classic names back again!

While I am not much a skinner, I do have a LARGE collection of skins from the early days backed up on external drive.  If there's a skin or mesh that folks are looking for, send out an IM and I'll be happy to check my backups!
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-One last comment
Post by: daglob on February 14, 2017, 07:49:22 PM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on January 17, 2017, 04:58:55 AM

Off-topic: This whole talk is truly making me feel old and bringing about memories of the old days. Back when we used to skin jackets on male_basic meshes because there were no meshes with jackets and such...back when FF was brand new and everything was new and unexplored. Sigh, I'm just coming to terms of how long I've been skinning for this game and how many of the one's from back then have moved on or aren't with us anymore. And the fact that I'm still here...it doesn't feel right...

Ignore me and my off topicness...just an old goat rambling about the old days...

Because you did all that stuff, skinning stuff on characters that lacked the proper mesh, working hard on exploring the unknown and pushing the boundaries of what was available at the time, all the rest follows. You and the other "first generation" skinners and meshes expanded interest and kept interest alive when the game hasn't been supported by Irrational Games in years. When I list the people who's stuff I look at, I know I don't usually list you, I usually stop before I get to Psycho-Pirate, Mandate, Robin of Spiritwood, and you, but all of you have taught me and, I'm sure, all the others (and I still haven't figured out what blend mode you have things set to color your older stuff, and do you do it to the brush or the layer?). And look at you new work: simply beautiful.

Looks to me like you still have stuff to teach us. And it might not feel right to you, but we are the ones who benefit from you still being here, and I, for one, appreciate it.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society-One last comment
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 14, 2017, 08:26:42 PM
Quote from: daglob on February 14, 2017, 07:49:22 PM
I usually stop before I get to Psycho-Pirate, Mandate, Robin of Spiritwood, and you, but all of you have taught me and, I'm sure, all the others (and I still haven't figured out what blend mode you have things set to color your older stuff, and do you do it to the brush or the layer?). And look at you new work: simply beautiful.

Looks to me like you still have stuff to teach us. And it might not feel right to you, but we are the ones who benefit from you still being here, and I, for one, appreciate it.

The blend mode depends on how old you want to go with the skins...some of the original ones were done in Paint Sop Pro 10 whose layers are a bit limited....mostly I desatuared the base skin and then laid a layer of colour set either to overlay or multiply..though sometimes soft light...just depended on the colour and such. If it was a solid piece it was just dropped in as normal and if it was stuff like metal or such...depended.  Some times I'd go back in and take an airbrush and spiffy things up.  Once I moved to Electric Freedom, I got my hands on Photoshop 7 and I started working with the brushes and such.  Nowadays I do all my skinning in Painter 11 and use tons of layers and a handful of different brushes to get what I do.  Still...me teach you folks...ha!  I'm just an old goat.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: Cyber Burn on February 14, 2017, 09:28:03 PM
I've always said that I'm not an artist, and I'll stick with that.

That being said, I do still look at all of our Skinners work, the drunken goat included, and try learn a thing or two. All of your guys' hard work has kept this Community alive, and you guys absolutely deserve your spot in Freedom Force History.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: Tomato on February 14, 2017, 11:01:15 PM
I'm coming into this late, and forgive me if I'm bringing up a few points that have been covered... I've been skimming the discussion, but there's a lot haven't gotten to. That said, I do support this, and just wanted to touch base on a few things:

-First, I don't know how you're cataloging, but it might be helpful to remember that a few people around here have changed usernames... Bobby69->Vertex being an obvious example, but I know a lot of my early work was credited under Antman Anext. Afghan Ant has also used a pseudonym before, at least for a bit. Figured as one of the people who did it I'd bring it up.
-On a personal level, I know I've lost about 90% of the stuff I've created (I have backups of the stuff on heroforce, but I downloaded that from HF.) and I've had a lot of help from members finding a lot of my old work. If any of that stuff is around, even if a newer version is out on HF, I'm 100% fine with that being re-hosted.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: WyldFyre on February 15, 2017, 12:48:08 AM
Quote from: Tomato on February 14, 2017, 11:01:15 PM
I'm coming into this late, and forgive me if I'm bringing up a few points that have been covered... I've been skimming the discussion, but there's a lot haven't gotten to. That said, I do support this, and just wanted to touch base on a few things:

-First, I don't know how you're cataloging, but it might be helpful to remember that a few people around here have changed usernames... Bobby69->Vertex being an obvious example, but I know a lot of my early work was credited under Antman Anext. Afghan Ant has also used a pseudonym before, at least for a bit. Figured as one of the people who did it I'd bring it up.
-On a personal level, I know I've lost about 90% of the stuff I've created (I have backups of the stuff on heroforce, but I downloaded that from HF.) and I've had a lot of help from members finding a lot of my old work. If any of that stuff is around, even if a newer version is out on HF, I'm 100% fine with that being re-hosted.

Tomato, I was aware of your Anext persona, but didn't know AA had a pseudonym. I have been trying to use DaGlob's web links to get an idea of older content. I visited a lot of these websites in the old days.

I have looked for some of your old stuff in the hopes of you allowing it to be posted. Unfortunately it's harder to track down since most of the resources containing them are gone. I'll PM you regarding a question I have on this.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: Tomato on February 15, 2017, 02:50:42 AM
IIRC, He used another username briefly to see if he could establish an identity based purely on skills, as opposed to the AfganAnt "brand." I honestly don't even remember what the username was, I just remember that was a thing for awhile.

As for my old stuff... again, I can't be too much help there. My original stuff (the stuff I did as AntmanAnext) was hosted on Electric Freedom, but was all taken down because... well, because I was a thief and kitbashes pieces from a Green Arrow skin because I couldn't be bothered to take 2 extra seconds to do it myself. I was 13 at the time, a notorious kit basher, and not well loved in the community. I do take a bit of pride in a few things though, such as teaming with the Beyonder for a few meshes I worked on in milkshape, such as a Cyclops mesh and a female "The_Ant" model to go with GG's gender bent FF characters. They're not good by modern standards, but for a time when we mostly only had the irrational models, any models to use at all were.

That being said, I DID manage to find an old yahoo group. There's not a ton there, mostly just old versions of my Avatar and OCs, but there's a few other pieces I made in there... a few FX pieces for Prev and my old Ultimate Spider-man skin (which I remember holding onto for forever) but feel free to peruse it if you'd like https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Tomatostuffage/files

Speaking of avatars though... ho boy. I used to have a website that had screens of all the different iterations of Tomato, but I think the most updated version was on NPI, and I lost those files at least a computer ago. I'm not TOO broken up about not having those skins (I have much, MUCH better versions now) but I do miss being able to look back and show how far I've come.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: Cyber Burn on February 15, 2017, 03:08:45 AM
Hey 'Mato, It's quite possible that I may have some of the NPI stuff floating around on a disk or my External HD. This weekend when I've got some free time, I'd be glad to see what I have and send your way.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: Podmark on February 15, 2017, 03:47:07 AM
Quote from: Tomato on February 15, 2017, 02:50:42 AM
IIRC, He used another username briefly to see if he could establish an identity based purely on skills, as opposed to the AfganAnt "brand." I honestly don't even remember what the username was, I just remember that was a thing for awhile.

It started with an E. I want to say something like Empherus. I remember kicking myself for now realizing it was AA.

Quote from: Tomato on February 15, 2017, 02:50:42 AM
I do take a bit of pride in a few things though, such as teaming with the Beyonder for a few meshes I worked on in milkshape, such as a Cyclops mesh and a female "The_Ant" model to go with GG's gender bent FF characters. They're not good by modern standards, but for a time when we mostly only had the irrational models, any models to use at all were.

I have a vague memory of us talking about working together on a model back then. I want to say an Ant-Man mesh, I think was going to do the skin, but I'm not sure my memory is pretty vague.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: detourne_me on March 09, 2017, 02:12:43 AM
Yeah I think that was it, Pod, or really close to AA's pseudonym anyway. I remember he used it to premiere the Morrison New X-Men skins, and we were all kinda blown away at this guy's 'first' skin. Those skins really were a great step for AA to take though, with super saturated colours and really contrasting highlights and shadows.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: WyldFyre on March 09, 2017, 02:35:33 AM
Was it possibly "Ephemeris"? I have several skins catalogued under that name.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: Deaths Jester on March 09, 2017, 03:09:07 AM
I don't think so but am unsure...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: detourne_me on March 09, 2017, 04:03:46 AM
Quote from: WyldFyre on March 09, 2017, 02:35:33 AM
Was it possibly "Ephemeris"? I have several skins catalogued under that name.
No. I think i was Emperous, actually.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: WyldFyre on March 09, 2017, 01:14:52 PM
Thanks guys, I'll keep on the lookout for them.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: daglob on March 09, 2017, 02:11:33 PM
I think AA has posted those Ephemerous (sp?) at his website. Xorn and Wolverine are there anyway.

They had really distinctive navels...
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: 4saken1 on March 10, 2017, 04:46:56 AM
I collected a bunch of skins when the game first came out. Downloaded just about everything I could get my hands on. I still have all of those skins and meshes on an external hard drive, but they have all been unzipped and put into the appropriate folders. My custom_characters folder is just under 5GB with over 5,000 folders. I posted here under the moniker of 'Vortex' (not to be confused with Vertex), but forgot the old e-mail address I had associated with that account :-(.
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: vortex on March 23, 2017, 03:33:35 PM
Aaaahhhh, now that feels better!

Thanks, stumpy!
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: WyldFyre on March 23, 2017, 06:22:46 PM
Hey Vortex,

Congrats on getting fixed up!
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: stumpy on March 24, 2017, 09:33:02 PM
Welcome back, vortex! :-)
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: vortex on April 01, 2017, 06:09:04 PM
Thanks, guys!

Hey, are the artists listed at the FF Museum the only ones who's skins you are currently looking for? 

I'm thinking I might go through my custom_character folder and copy the skins into separate folders by artist (those that have readme's, at least).  From there, I can see what I have vs what you need. 
Title: Re: Freedom Force Historical Preservation and Chowder Society- One last comment.
Post by: WyldFyre on April 01, 2017, 06:46:25 PM
Quote from: vortex on April 01, 2017, 06:09:04 PM
Hey, are the artists listed at the FF Museum the only ones who's skins you are currently looking for? 

Not at all. I plan on putting skins which were once hosted on various defunct sites up at the museum. I'm working on stuff by Death's Jester, Lude, Marmeille and a host of others.  Having everyone help fill in the gaps is what I'm hoping for. 

The skins currently hosted are just the ones I've had time to get sorted and posted. There are literally thousands I haven't gotten through yet.

And I'll always take nominations on which artist to post next.  :)