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Community Forums => Posting Games => Topic started by: Reepicheep on January 03, 2018, 03:33:49 PM

Title: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 03, 2018, 03:33:49 PM
Mutants & Masterminds
Table Talk & OOC Thread

The Hunt for the Progenitor (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=59677.msg814737#msg814737)


I've been working on a few character sheets with folks (as well as a couple of NPCs) and I'm getting quite excited about getting started with this. Once we've got four player character sheets sorted out, we'll get an In-Character thread started.

This thread is for out of character and table talk. It's where we can keep ourselves organised or resolve misunderstandings (there will be many) without interfering with the pace of the main roleplaying thread. I'm also going to take this opportunity to go through the game a little, talk about a few rules and some house rules as well.

For anyone other than folks who either sent me a PM or made a note on my interest check poll (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=59612), it's not too late to join at any point. We'll set up your character sheet and figure out a way of being able to jump in.

What is Mutants & Masterminds

More info than I can give can be found on this website. (http://www.d20herosrd.com)

This is a fun game that you could call collaborative storytelling. My job as Gamemaster is to throw your characters into scenarios and you respond to it as you think your character would. Solving the problem is encouraged. Making the problem worse even more so.

To give the game a sense of randomness and consequence, your actions will succeed or fail based on rolls from a 20 sided dice. Your character sheets help to modify these dice rolls, so you have the tools you might need to give yourself an advantage in certain scenarios. Though you may find yourself lacking in others. Don't worry - failure is part of good storytelling. In fact, it's rewarded. I'll get to that.

While a lot of the scenarios you'll find yourself in is in my control - such as the setting, the characters you'll encounter and the level of danger or difficulty you'll need to surpass - the consequences of your actions are not. The dice controls your fate and between us we can only do our best to give ourselves advantages against randomness.

As a house rule for myself, I try to treat failure of a dice roll as something happening outside of your control preventing you from succeeding, rather than your character being inept. This is to try and make repeated failures not reflect badly on your character. The one universal exception, where failure is on account of the character's inability to resolve the problem, is a critical failure. Any time the dice rolls a 1, regardless of whether it beats the required score, will be treated as an inability to complete the task. There will be some additional exceptions to this depending on circumstance.

I will mostly use my own intuition to judge how your actions will translate into a dice roll and which abilities, skills, advantages and powers contribute to that action. If you want me to use a specific modifier, leave a little note at the bottom of your narrative.


The Setting at the Start of the Game

Your characters will be in a state beyond their origin story, in the early days of their superpowered careers. They might have faced down some petty criminals, solved a minor mystery or two or maybe they've applied their skills to robbing some aristocrat. They're waiting for their chance to enter the big league - or perhaps that chance is coming their way whether they want it or not.

To begin with, your characters will not have met each other. It will be my responsibility to get them together, and then it becomes yours to learn about one another.

We'll work together over private messages to work out your character sheet. Feel free to bombard me with questions during this process, as the game has a lot of depth when it comes to character customisation. I'm going by quite a washed down, maths-lite version of character sheets to streamline the game as best as I can and avoid any obscure character statistics.

It's up to you how much of your character sheet you share out-of-character. Just keep in mind that what you learn about other characters through table talk doesn't apply to what you know in-character.


Writing an Action

There are two modes of game: in action and out of action.

Out of Action:

While not in a combat situation, or similar situation where timing is of the essence, you can be lengthy and descriptive about your narrative. You can take as long as you like to describe how you navigate the spaces, what you look at, how you talk to the people around you, even what you're thinking.

The only thing you can't do is describe your main actions as things you have succeeded at. This is the difference between:
Darth Vader cuts off Luke's hand.
and
Darth Vader attempts to cut off Luke's hand.

The first narration implies that the action succeeded, while the second one allows the dice to make the judgement.

Naturally, trivial tasks like walking around or talking don't require dice rolls. It's when we get into the realm of acrobatics, heavy lifting or investigation that this use of language is needed.

I may not necessarily treat the order in which people post as the chronological order of events. For instance:
The room fills with poisonous gas. Player 1 resists the gas, but player 2 begins to choke.
Player 1 goes to treat Player 2 for the poison.
Player 2 tries to find a valve to shut the poison off.


In this scenario, it makes sense to do Player 2's action first. The treatment for the poison might be too time consuming for the post order to make sense, but will still be beneficial after Player 2 switches off the gas.

In Action:

When a combat or action rounds starts, this will be clearly announced. Keep in mind that there is always an option to avoid or escape combat. Once you are in action, there are a few rules to consider.

The same rule of language applies during combat situations. Here, however, actions last somewhere in the realm of six seconds. Within this time, by default you will be able to move and perform a standard action. (Or in reverse order)

A standard action could be anything that takes more than a couple of seconds, such as using a power, throwing a punch or performing a skill. It can also be used to actively defend, increasing your defence chance for the round.

Move actions include anything that changes your state. Changing location, standing up or drawing a weapon count towards this. You can opt to perform a second move action instead of a standard action.

In addition, some actions are considered free, consuming neither a movement nor an action. Communicating, dropping an object to the ground, going prone or sustaining an already active power are examples of free actions.

Most reactions, like defending or dodging, are also essentially free. They may occur automatically when outside of your control, and don't necessarily need to occur on your turn.

There are times that you can alter this. Some advantages and powers change how much you can do in those six seconds. Additionally, you can opt to use extra effort.

Extra effort is a limited resource that allows you to do more within your move. This will allow you to perform a second action in your move, increase your roll modifier slightly, enhance your powers, reroll dice or boost your resistance. To use it simply state at the top of your post that that is what you would like to do. Using an extra effort puts your character in a state of fatigue. If a fatigued character attempts to use extra effort, they will become incapacitated.

In action, the chronological order of posts will be determined by initiative results. This means you won't need to wait for the correct posting order to make your move. It may mean that some moves will get ignored, depending on the result of prior actions. The opponent's turn will be integrated where it belongs in this order.

I'm going to do my best to keep combat short, so that we're not facing down the same baddy for weeks at a time. I'm going to keep the mechanics by which I manage the pace to myself, so as not to give you any meta advantages. Rest assured, pace is a priority for me.



Hero Points

At any time, you might be awarded Hero Points. These get handed out to everyone when the story gets interesting. It isn't a reward for being victorious, rather it's a reward for good roleplay and storytelling. Embracing your character's flaws and putting them into narrative is one way of achieving them individually. You may be rewarded Hero Points as a team when you've been outwitted and fall into a villainous trap.

There are a few significant ways you can spend Hero Points, some of which infringe on my powers as a GM.

They're pretty powerful, but they won't be handed out like candy. Use them wisely.

Hero points may be removed for unfeasible use of OOC knowledge to affect your choices in character.


Consequences

As a quick note, I won't ever put your characters in lethal situations. They won't die in circumstances beyond their - or your - control. If you would like a character to be killed off, let me know privately. Situations that could be dangerous enough to kill will result incapacitation. I see this as an opportunity for other characters to resolve the problem of an incapacitated character. More plot, more fun.

There's no lose state either. If all characters become incapacitated for whatever reason, it will lead into something like a capture scene.


House Rules
An ever-expanding list.

1. When characters must make moves in a certain order - for instance, the initiative order during a conflict - the order will determine which posts I read first. You may still post outside that order, just be aware that someone who posts after you may end up going before you.

2. If a player becomes absent for any real life reason, I'll try and continue the game as usual. This will take in-game time into consideration more than real-life time. A four-minute puzzle may take a week to solve, during which an absent player can get away with 'hanging around'. But should the occasion take players away from a scene part way through an absentee's activity, I will use my GM authority to solve that character's activity, or grant the other players the opportunity to solve that problem. Please don't feel ashamed for not posting for a period of time, I'll be proceeding using only my own judgement of fairness and pace. That's an unreliable call.

3. Resistance saves will be made with 2d10 instead of 1d20. Snake eyes will count as a critical fail when relevant. This means your charactersí resistance scores (normally Fortitude, Will and Toughness) will matter more and middling results will be more common. Defensive saves (avoiding damage, usually Dodge, Parry and Will) will still use 1d20. NPC opponents must still resist using 1d20.

4. Some actions can be made from having equipment, which, if your character comes pre-equiped with them, requires your character to have the 'equipment' advantage and pay for them using an independent currency to Character Points. The corebook distinguishes gear and devices (equivalent to powers) from equipment by the mundanity of the object, or how non-specific it is to the character. For the sake of clarity, I'll distinguish them by whether it is consumable. a batarang is equipment. A boomerang is a power.

I'm also denying the 'equipment' advantage from being used to buy a headquarters (for now). The cost exchange allows you to buy a moon base for 5 character points. It's safe to assume your character has a place to live, though.

5. Usually a power's ToHit (Accuracy) + Damage can't exceed the character's Power Level x2. I'll allow this to happen within reason, but each use of that power requires a trade off of accuracy, damage or a balanced attack. You get to decide which. I'll reduce the undesired quality by however much the power exceeds the limit. This is just to make character creation a little easier, since damage calculations are the last thing we do and it's a bother to go back and spend character points elsewhere. It also gives you some more flexibility of how you use your power.

For example, a character may have:
Arm Cannon: Blast Damage 10, +12 (DC 25, Crit 20) 6 Tradeoff
Where +12 is the accuracy given by the character's ranged skill and damage 10 is given from the power's blast effect rank. It's a bit excessive, but a good example. Here, the DC is calculated by the attack's damage +15. That's the number that the target needs to roll their toughness against to resist it.

The 10 of damage and the 12 of accuracy puts this power 6 points over the 16 limit. If the player uses it wants to take more care over their aim, I'll reduce 6 points from the damage "+12 (DC 19)" or if they want to power up their weapon for a more lethal but less accurate attack I'll take those points off the ToHit +6(DC25). A balanced approach would remove 3 from each. "+9 (DC22)"

If you don't have an attack with the 'X Tradeoff', then you don't need to worry. Your attack will always fire off as designed.

Villain and NPC powers will not be permitted this exception, so you will never be up against such devastating odds.

6. I will roll the dice for every routine check anyway. A routine check is where, under non-pressure situations, your bonus modifier is within 10 points of the difficulty or where, under pressure, your bonus modifier exceeds the difficulty. For instance, if you need to decide to intimidate a single, non-threatening guard, then a DC15 can be routinely beaten with an intimidate skill of 5. If a high pressure situation like disarming a bomb is DC20 you would need a technology skill of 20 before it becomes a routine check. Normally you will chose if you opt to roll the dice or just automatically succeed, but I'll roll to save time. You can only fail a routine check with a roll of 1, and degrees of success are still measured.





Let me know, either here or privately, if you have any more questions. I'm still working all of this out for myself, so your questions can help me figure out some of the specific quirks of the game.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 03, 2018, 04:04:52 PM
Reserved Post - For location and character references. This encyclopaedia will become populated as you learn about the setting.

Player Characters
Catwhowalksbyhimself as Bill Morgan the Organ King
Organ Grinder by day, Organ Grinder by night.

UnkoMan as Queen Ant
That's a lot of ants.

Death's Jester as Wild Card
Slick dressed man of mystery.

Glitch Girl as ????
Identity unconfirmed.

Friends


Foes


Places

Emerald City
Founded in 1818. Emerald City is a sprawling metropolis on the West Coast, USA at the mouth of the Albian River. It is a centre of culture, commerce, trade and industry. It has seen its share of costumed heroics since the 1940s. Villainy came not long after.

Lakeside
Emerald City's latest project and the centre of the arts scenes. Lakeside is poppin'. It is located just east of Lake Vallee. Some criticise that the gentrification of Lakeside is only displacing the poor to the docks, the warehouses or, worst of all, into the undercity.

East Vallee Industrial Park
Not far from Lakeside is a small industrial park. About twenty years ago it was found to be causing significant soil pollution and was closed down before it could do any damage to Lake Vallee. A few tidier businesses still operate out of there, but the place has mostly been an industrial graveyard. Why the Lakeside district council hasn't demolished it with the recent up marketing is anyone's guess.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 05, 2018, 03:57:01 AM
Hey, mine has a name and a bit of an idea with nary a smell of...wait...nevermind, just spilt some booze on the paperwork I've been compiling for my character. Course I'm pretty much building my character with some Gm input while everyone else is having you (Reep) help them out and some secret help from me with those special pdfs... : P 
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on January 05, 2018, 03:59:45 AM
Heh heh, yeah, I'll admit I'm green as the grass here. Without that help I'd have taken ages.
I do have a quick photoshop job though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 05, 2018, 04:20:20 AM
You're allowed to go as in or out of depth as you like. I'm really excited to see what you've put together in action.

Couldn't have done it without DJ's secret help. Anyone know any good, quick hangover cures? (In all seriousness, thank you, DJ. Everything fell into place once I stopped needing to machete my way through 2nd hand information.)

The updates on that second post will happen as you learn about things in character, so if you opt to reveal stuff here in the OOC thread, it won't apply. Completely up to you how much you wanna share, but secrets are fun too.

I put together an excel spreadsheet of my own to compile character sheets and make them a little easier to fine tune, as well as to have them all in one place when I refer to them. If anyone wants my template, shout at me. I need to reformat the ones I've sent out to be a bit clearer.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 05, 2018, 04:51:27 AM
Not a prob Reep, I just wish I could've let you get that stuff via one link and could've done it via Pm instead. Anything that makes it easier on you...

Also, don't worry about being green to it, Unko. At least here you got folks more than willing to help out! :)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 05, 2018, 03:17:16 PM
By the way, if folks want to at any point, you could have a crack at designing a second character sheet to be your nemesis. More villains, more fun.

Iíve added some house rules to the OP, designed to try and smoothen things out a bit. Donít worry if you donít understand them right now, theyíre more my problem than yours.

Rule 4 might seem especially alien, but Iíll talk you through it if it applies to you.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 05, 2018, 04:18:21 PM
Hurm...nemisi for my "hero"...hurm...

Rule 4 makes perfect sense to balancing out that problem you ran into with the PL rules.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 07, 2018, 01:02:57 PM
DJ has been a huge help in deciphering the game and solving a lot of the presumptions and downright misconceptions I had. Apologies if Iíve been flip flopping a bit with the rules and character creation over PM. Just getting my bearings.

Character creation is definitely the hardest, most cerebrally demanding part of the game, so I'm being as thorough as I can going through the process. There's, like, five pages of the book about how to actually play the game. The other 348 pages are for character creation and story ideas.

My house rule about equipment was closer to the core rules than I thought. Thereís a slight difference that Iíll keep, and Iíve updated house rule 3 to reflect this.

Iíve said to a few of you privately, but Iíll repeat here, that Iíll give folks one free respec of their character sheets once weíre in game. That way if you find your character design is in some way wanting, either for being ineffective against threats or not fulfilling your hopes for the character, we can revisit it.

Emerald City has a sort of universal origin story where a cloud of alien nanobots was released in the city centre during the 1980ís, mutating some of the population caught in it. The event is referred to as the Silver Storm. Itís a lot like energy X. Iím going to leave it up to you if you choose to use or ignore that for your own origins. Not to spoil anything, but only one of the villains you might face during the first campaign uses this.

Iím kinda going anachronistic with the setting, to be flexible with the theme. It will be set in a range of between the 1970ís to the present day. That way we can have present day (and beyond) technology without the restriction of current culture or narrative style.

I do know the OP is a wall of text. And so is this post. Itís intended as reference as we go along rather than essential learning. Literally the only parts that matter are the notes on setting and the first couple of paragraphs of writing an action. Most of the rest is notes, mainly for myself, about how to make the game forum friendly.

I think weíre almost ready to go.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 07, 2018, 06:18:50 PM
You give me too much credit, Reep, I just pointed you towards a few things was all.

For those using the Silver Storm as your origin, those who gained their powers that way are often refered to collectively as "Stormers" in Emerald City (per the book).
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Glitch Girl on January 10, 2018, 02:30:36 PM
Just checking in.  Nothing to add at the moment except that I already sent Reep my character concept and he gave me a power breakdown which I am digesting (mmm powers).  Work has been chaotic lately so been more distracted that usual.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 10, 2018, 04:20:49 PM
Looks like my character is mostly done...Reep and I are just making sure I calculated everything right and he fits into the PL 8 requirements.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 10, 2018, 04:24:34 PM
Take your time! I won't start until everyone is ready. Work started for me just now, but I got the campaign scenario finished last week (which is why I may have been a bit hyperactive). I've been really enjoying going through the character sheets as they've developed, so this part is good fun for me.

I'll put yours through my magical spreadsheet tonight, DJ. It looked fine from what I could glean with my limited 1am mental arithmetic skills.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 10, 2018, 05:31:36 PM
I'll Pm you the reworked skills latter today. If the numbers don't come out right when you run them thru the spreadsheet let me know cause I've got another character started up that should fit PL 8 better.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 11, 2018, 08:37:28 PM
I honestly had't given a thought to how my character got his powers.  His situation is a bit unusual making that question not so simple as it first appears.  I will probably not worry about it unless it somehow become relevant.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 11, 2018, 09:18:50 PM
Iíve always been an advocate of discovering characters as you write them. You might flop around a bit to start, but it ends up feeling right. So Iím not gonna demand rich origin stories going in. Plenty of time for that.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 11, 2018, 09:44:56 PM
Iíve always been an advocate of discovering characters as you write them. You might flop around a bit to start, but it ends up feeling right. So Iím not gonna demand rich origin stories going in. Plenty of time for that.

 :doh:..and here I had a full origin story worked out.... :banghead:
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 11, 2018, 10:43:57 PM
Hey, man, you do you.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 12, 2018, 12:39:57 AM
You just say that because you want to mine my character's past for ideas... :-P
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 12, 2018, 08:20:23 AM
Theyíre on to me!

*takes all the characters and runs.*
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 12, 2018, 01:45:22 PM
Hey, get back here with those!!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 14, 2018, 08:40:51 PM
Must say, I'm interested in how Reep will bring the characters together without falling back on the old "you wake up in a strange place together, let last thing you remember is..." type setup.  I mean, it would be easy to get (am guessing) Unko's, Cat's, and GG's characters together with some type of villian attack or such but my character throws a monkey wrench into that setup a bit...maybe...who knows?!?

At least we won't be starting out with the old "you all happened to be in the same bar when..." or the "you four strangers were invited to this meeting because..." setup...I think.

<ponders if Reep is quickly jotting out a new intro after silently screaming at DJ...> 
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 14, 2018, 09:10:51 PM
My character is particularly easy to introduce, as anyone who lives in the same city has probably already seen him.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 14, 2018, 10:22:20 PM
*Grumbles, scrunches up some paper and chucks it in the bin*



It'll be succinct


In terms of morality, it should be neutral enough. A piqued interest - or an appraisal of opportunity might be the right term - rather than a goal. I can't be handing you motivation on a platter as we go, but I also won't knowingly force the narrative into any moral bias. That's your job.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 14, 2018, 10:43:21 PM
Sorry for wasting that piece of paper, Reep.....<goes out and plants a tree>...and moral bias?!? What's that?!?! ;-)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on January 15, 2018, 06:06:57 AM
I can easily say my character has probably NOT seen your character, Cat, and would certainly see no reason to go to a place a villain was attacking. That sounds like the opposite of where they'd want to be.

So, yeah, I'm actually quite curious as to how everybody will meet.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 15, 2018, 06:51:03 AM
I can easily say my character has probably NOT seen your character, Cat, and would certainly see no reason to go to a place a villain was attacking. That sounds like the opposite of where they'd want to be.

So, yeah, I'm actually quite curious as to how everybody will meet.

I think you have entirely the wrong idea about my character, but you will see!  Although I suppose it's possible your character is a hermit who never goes outside.  I am very much looking forward to seeing what everyone else has come up with!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on January 15, 2018, 07:31:39 AM
I think you have entirely the wrong idea about my character, but you will see!  Although I suppose it's possible your character is a hermit who never goes outside.  I am very much looking forward to seeing what everyone else has come up with!

Ehhhh heh heh heh.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 15, 2018, 07:51:03 AM
Sorry for wasting that piece of paper, Reep.....<goes out and plants a tree>...and moral bias?!? What's that?!?! ;-)

Itís when you go outdoors to plant a tree because someone else threw a piece of paper away.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 15, 2018, 03:56:56 PM
Umm...crap...<goes and uproots two trees>...ah...I feel right again...


As for everyone else's characters, my character "might've" seen them but not how you think. As for the villian attack...ehh...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on January 29, 2018, 09:05:52 PM
Apologies for the radio silence over the last couple of weeks. I'll be starting this on Friday!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on January 30, 2018, 10:06:08 PM
Woot!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on January 30, 2018, 10:28:46 PM
<starts shuffling his cards>
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 02, 2018, 09:09:05 AM
It's up, y'all! (http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?board=26.0)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 02, 2018, 11:12:03 PM
Oh gosh, I'm pumped on seeing how this will play out. Disparate writing styles coming together. Unique characters.
Intriguing, intriguing.

Oh yeah, and if I just want some DM message would I add something like:

REEP
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 03, 2018, 12:18:22 AM
Okay Unko, your character really wouldn't have seen mine.  She's wierder than I would have guess.  I look forward to seeing more.  A rather imaginative and varied group so far.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 03, 2018, 12:26:16 AM
Heh heh, yeah. She's new to... everything.
I am really loving how different the characters are so far. Can't wait to see GG's. I know she's been busy lately, but hopefully it's soon!
No pressure.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 03, 2018, 09:31:30 AM
I get a League of Extraordinary Gentlemen vibe from the variety of characters. I really like it!

Unko:
Yeah, spoiler tags at the end of posts are perfect. I'll check all of them, so there's no real need to call me out. But if you want to say something with more volume, head on over here, I guess.

As for your actual question, I'll be doing things like background perception checks for exactly that. Even just mentioning that you're looking around or exploring or anything like that will trigger me to do a perception check. Your hive mind power won't override your perception skill, but there's kinda no need to given how high your perception skill is.

It's obviously none of my business, but I think GG has quite a lot on her plate. If she's up for joining us later, we'll find a way of involving her.


Also, if anyone wants to post a short, two to three line description of their character, I can add it to the reference post on this thread.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 03, 2018, 10:59:53 AM
I realised as I was writing that we never gave you a wall climbing effect for any of your powers, Unkoman. That was a pretty dumb oversight. I can't really give you an innate advantage over other characters who might have that effect for now, but after this first scene I'll give us a chance to revisit the character sheets.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 03, 2018, 04:06:37 PM
I IMed GG over on G+ and let her know you'd started the game. I think once she gets the chance, she'll "drop" in.

Also, best to just go with how my character looks like for his description at the moment. Cause, you know...

Also, it's Wild Card, not Wildcard!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 03, 2018, 05:15:53 PM
I have a daily word quota, so I gotta cut down on them spacebars when I can.

I'll try and remember for next time.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 03, 2018, 07:13:58 PM
Oh yeah! How'd that slip by? I was just assuming the ants could climb the walls, you know? Whoops!
I was just about to climb up and in.

Hey, speaking of spoilers... what if you gave everybody's character their own spoiler for the perception stuff? (Presumably I will be getting a lot. Dunno about the other people.) Then we couldn't even accidentally get info from other people?
I don't know what people think about that, but it's something I have seen in the past on forum based RPGs.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 03, 2018, 07:21:24 PM
Under some circumstances, I will PM specific information to you. Particularly when a clue might require some ambiguous decision making. That sort of line of things. Otherwise, I trust folks not to metagame.

Keep in mind that you can communicate telepathically with the detachment of ants that you are using, but for the sake of fairness the Ant Queen character herself would need to be present to execute any specific feat.


Cat, what sort of Organ do you imagine Bill Morgan to have? I have in my head a small box held up by a strap around the neck, but I realise there are the larger varieties on wheels and all. You might have elaborated with me before,
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 03, 2018, 08:09:03 PM

Cat, what sort of Organ do you imagine Bill Morgan to have? I have in my head a small box held up by a strap around the neck, but I realise there are the larger varieties on wheels and all. You might have elaborated with me before,

I actually described it in my introduction, but yeah, exactly that.  Its one of the smaller ones.  It's portable and can be carried around.  Bill has also added a small platform next to the crank for the monkey to stand on.  This was custom built by him onto the original model.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 03, 2018, 08:36:14 PM
Ah yeah! That platform mention threw me off a bit. I think in that first post I managed to interpret it as a platform on which one could busk (reading back, I have no idea where that came from).

Cool, we're in sync.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 03, 2018, 08:42:14 PM
I should also mention something that is definitely going to come up at some point.

Capuchin monkeys eat ants.  I cannot imagine that this will go over well.

Reep--if you did not already know this, you might want to change the result of that earlier perception check so that instead of seeing Confidence as a small human, the ants instead see him as a terrifying predator.  Completely up to you, of course.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 03, 2018, 08:44:05 PM
 :gbthungry

Re: the edit. Iíll leave that up to Unko; really itís down to him on how Queen Ant percieves or distinguishes things. I was just making a throwaway joke there.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 03, 2018, 10:10:36 PM
I pictured this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/38/2d/ed382d78217f41c631eee35bc273afd8.jpg
In my mind.

She wouldn't have too much experience with other animals in general, but oh gosh, this is going to turn out poorly, ha ha ha!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 03, 2018, 10:13:22 PM
So...Cat's monkey is going to eat Unko, I'm probably going to get irradiated by green dust and never get paid...oh this is going to go well. ;-)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 03, 2018, 11:31:21 PM
I pictured this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ed/38/2d/ed382d78217f41c631eee35bc273afd8.jpg
In my mind.

Basically correct.  I think the box is slightly wider, but that is essentially what I had in mind.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 03, 2018, 11:34:09 PM
Fortunately confidence is not actually an ordinary monkey, so it's not likely to be a problem for long.  I was going to let this be revealed later, but since it's somewhat relevant now

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 03, 2018, 11:45:45 PM
I'm a bit wary of doing too much before GG's had her chance to post, although I suppose if her character shows up a bit later than the others it won't hurt anything.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 04, 2018, 12:44:39 AM
We havenít even finished her character sheet at this point, so weíll find a way later on to introduce the character if sheís still up for taking part. I didnít want for you guys to be waiting nor for her to feel any pressure to complete the sheet.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 04, 2018, 01:10:57 AM
So, it seems I'm the only one without a hive mind...great, just great...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 04, 2018, 11:09:33 AM
BAY DOORS! Thank you. That was bugging me that I couldn't remember what they were called.

Unko, are the questions that you are asking indicative of your actions, or are you just trying to tell if there is an opportunity? I'm going to assume the former when I make my post a little later, since you've got anything you need to know out of perception at this point. Let me know if it wasn't what you wanted me to do and I'll change it.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 04, 2018, 05:12:28 PM
Nah, it was perfect, thanks. Did exactly what I wanted.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 04, 2018, 10:42:37 PM
I kinda feel bad, but Bill has no reason to stick around at this point.  If nothing else happens, he'll just go back to busking until something draws him back in again.  I have no problems sitting out a bit if that does happen.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 04, 2018, 10:45:37 PM
No want to investigate why the warehouse exploded or why Wild Card is so intent on giving the place a once over or what the heck Unko is, Cat?!?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 04, 2018, 10:46:51 PM
Perhaps that particularly broken part of the conveyer belt might warrant a closer look.

Iíll throw you a hook (or two) on your way out real quick. Bare with me.

Edit: also, yeah, totally let me know if your character feels out of place at all or you canít figure out what do with them. Iím still getting to know them as well. The scenes are adaptable, so hopefully you all should fit.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 04, 2018, 10:48:16 PM
No want to investigate why the warehouse exploded or why Wild Card is so intent on giving the place a once over or what the heck Unko is, Cat?!?

Nope.  He doesn't care.  He's a busker, not a full time superhero.  He stops a few purse snatches and shows up at emergencies to help people.  Beside, he's so strange himself that Queen Ant is hardly going to phase him and investigating stuff is other people's jobs, not his.  This isn't enough quite yet to draw him in.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 04, 2018, 10:48:53 PM
Perhaps that particularly broken part of the conveyer belt might warrant a closer look.

Iíll throw you a hook (or two) on your way out real quick. Bare with me.

You may play it however you like.  I have no intention of skipping out, I'm just playing the character as I see him.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 04, 2018, 10:51:00 PM
Unko may be able to stop him depending on how Queen Ant reacts to him though.  He'll stop to talk and if he realizes she's a hive minded creature like he is, he will definitely become more curious then.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 04, 2018, 10:57:20 PM
...And there is that cowled watcher out there that Queen Ant noticed...

As for getting a feel of the characters, Reep, I think that both Cat's and Unko's are going to be the one's that you'll have the most feeling out to do. After all, I gave you a pretty good idea about mine and their two characters are a bit...odd. I just have to find the right writing style...

Edit: Or not that watcher...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 04, 2018, 11:01:01 PM
I donít know who youíre talking about.


Iíd say to be careful about going backwards. You never know when other characters might have gone down a one-way street. In this particular scenario, you might find yourself sitting out for 90% of it. Itís up to you of course, but Iíll be doing what I can to hook you in the right direction.

Iím in the bath right now, so I canít get to the character sheets. Posting real soon.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 04, 2018, 11:15:43 PM
...or if that one way street a PC might be taking has to do with some other reason maybe unrelated to the explosion...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 04, 2018, 11:41:49 PM
I know I've been playing slow and hesitant for now, but once the queen figures out you two don't pose a threat expect her to be very curious about the situation.
I almost didn't play her just because I knew she'd be a bit difficult, but I loved the character idea too much. Reep can attest to that.

Anyhow, once I get these next couple dice rolls we'll see where she goes and how she's going to react to you, Cat. (I wouldn't mind tossing in an insight roll to judge Organ King's mindset/intentions. He seems pretty content though, so I'm expecting it to start up some interaction. I don't know what kind of check or if there was one to check on the monkey, or how their hive mind works, but for now Queen Ant would be treating them both as equals.)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 05, 2018, 12:23:57 AM
I put a little bit of the answer in the spoiler on the post.

Rolling awareness against another player? Hmm... I guess you could sometimes, but it might be kinda unnecessary. I think your character would just get the same instinct as whatever you can from the way another player narrates. But also, having as free-flow, no-rolls-needed communication between player characters is important anyway. That way you don't need me to moderate your IC conversations.


I can't tell you how excited I've been to GM for lots and lots of ants. I'm not disappointed.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 05, 2018, 12:27:00 AM
Sure, we can go with that then. I wasn't sure how to operate.
Though I don't fully trust that Wild Card guy yet. He might be a bit of a liar. The queen ant can spot a liar a mile away. Wait, is it a mile? I'll have to check her mental prowess on the character sheet again. Ha ha ha.
(these are the jokes, folks)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 05, 2018, 12:40:50 AM
You could do an insight roll for the initial feeling out/evaluation...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 05, 2018, 12:57:38 AM
Or, if you want, we could do it where if you lie directly to me, you can let Reep know and he can roll whatever you... uh lie skill is (I forget the name of that) against my insight?
Then we would only have to worry about it if you were purposefully hiding something and I wouldn't know either way?
Presuming you do that at all. I don't know how trusting or forthcoming your character will be to random strangers, especially freaky deaky creatures like me.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 05, 2018, 01:00:50 AM
Deception is the skill for lying...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 05, 2018, 01:22:58 AM
Ah, that's it. Though I assume queen ant would be making checks against this sort of thing anyhow?
I'm not sure how that goes, Reep. I assume that if an NPC lied to me you'd only mention something if I pass a check like this?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 05, 2018, 01:44:53 AM
He'd probably do most in secret and would ease you towards that feeling thru narrative, most likely. We'll only know of the rolls if you ask for one or act like we are trying to discern the truth/lie of a character. At least that's what I think would happen...

...And Wild Card lie to someone?!? He'd never do that...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 05, 2018, 01:47:43 AM
Yeah, so it turns out that Unko's character and mine have powers and natures that interact naturally in very interesting ways.  Couldn't have planned it better, honestly.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 05, 2018, 02:04:03 AM
Will say I'm kicking myself for not taking a few points of investigate...seeing as I'm doing it a lot...

Hey Reep, can I take a point or two off one skill and apply it to add investigate to my PC? Pm me if so and I'll ket you know what I've got planned...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 05, 2018, 09:33:06 AM
I guess if you do decide to roll against each other, if just to spice things up, you can agree to it yourselves either through spoiler tags or PMs. Iím sure by now you can tell the format for rolling. Itís pretty straightforward. If you do feel you need to involve me, for instance if you want to keep your roll results secret from each other, then just let me know.

In Queen Antís case, Iíd say she should be able to communicate telepathically with as much frequency of success as the others, since it is her only way of speaking right now.

Edit: That reminds me, actually. I once played a blind character who could only perceive the world in a sort of semi-prophetic metaphor. When meeting or talking to other players, I'd simply tell them what was up with my character and ask what she might see when she looks at their character. The results were really interesting, and I think it helped other characters develop themselves when they described how they might appear to her. The same approach might work for Queen Ant.


Checking for NPC lies is going to be an interesting one. Iíll always keep them secret, whether you succeed or fail. The reason being is if I show you successes but hide failures, then it would be clear that youíve failed whenever you donít see the dice results. There are probably a few other checks like this, but none spring to mind.

Of course, finding more tactile clues of an NPCís deception is more reliable evidence. You might see the dice in those circumstances.


Once weíre through this prologue scene, Iíll open a window to alter character sheets. Doing it in one go would make it easier to keep track of changes. Keep a list of where you think you might need adjustment and weíll work it out. I do think what you're proposing is a worthwhile tradeoff, since investigation is such a big part of this game. But I'd like to get through some combat, since that's where I think the fine tuning would need to happen. As a thought experiment, I have pitched you all against my Reep the Barbarian test sheet to see what would happen, but trying the characters out in the field would be a bit more rigorous.

I'm not going to tell you who beat Reep and who didn't though. At least not yet.

It was none of you. I rock.


Also, yíall missed the significance of the parka.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 05, 2018, 10:25:02 AM
Actually, I didn't miss the signifigance of the parka...I just learned it via the laptop...and I editted my post and followed with another...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 05, 2018, 11:22:22 AM
Iím having a hard time deciding what you might find in the Parka, Cat, since DJ has, um, confiscated the evidence. Iíll edit my post in a bit to confirm that. For the sake of this tutorial scene, Iíll tell you that between the three of you, you now have spotted everything you need to know. You may just want to consolidate your observations.

Edit: . . . or take a closer look at some things.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 05, 2018, 07:39:13 PM
Iím having a hard time deciding what you might find in the Parka, Cat, since DJ has, um, confiscated the evidence. Iíll edit my post in a bit to confirm that. For the sake of this tutorial scene, Iíll tell you that between the three of you, you now have spotted everything you need to know. You may just want to consolidate your observations.

Edit: . . . or take a closer look at some things.

Confiscated the evidence?  Ooooo....fancy.....

Course the fact I've avoided looking for "survivors" until possibly now also means I found a lot of stuff ahead of time.  "Who needs those stupid survivors?"   :P
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 07:10:20 AM
Unko:  ;)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 07:16:18 AM
Bah...we no need survivors to...oh...tis an origin story then...uh-huh...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 07:19:42 AM
This would be literally the first time my character has spoken to creatures beyond the rest of her colony, which don't count because that's a completely natural instinct.
Don't worry, she's a fast learner with a fantastic memory, it's just a little hard right now.

She'd be inclined to free creatures from a place like she was in before.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 07:31:10 AM
Wasn't exactly what I meant by origin story, Unko. I was talking about the adventure arc as a whole and what type of idea it fit...though, in a way what you said also fits into it too...perhaps though not as how you think it does. That all depends on Reep, though. At least we're doing an interesting character and aren't doing a Wild Card origin...that wouldn't be fun. Believe me, this is better!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 07:37:42 AM
In answer to your spoiler, DJ, yeah. Posts are happening within seconds of each other, so trying out different ideas at the same time as others is fine. In fact, you could see it as a benefit. Three ideas from all of you means three chances of success.

Iím on a train right now, itíll be a few hours before I can get to the character sheets.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 07:40:57 AM
Origin in many ways.
Origin in me even learning how to play this game. It's interesting so far. Hopefully I'm doing well enough. I'm sort of using my character being new to the world as a crutch to being new to playing the game, ha ha ha.

But I can't wait to get more backstory from everybody's characters, and seeing how we organically mesh into working together. I really like how we independently decided to not go with traditional hero characters, especially since we are in a setting where that's commonplace.
(Though I don't know who was wearing that cape on top of that building... Eager to learn!)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 07:49:55 AM
Origin in me even learning how to play this game. It's interesting so far. Hopefully I'm doing well enough. I'm sort of using my character being new to the world as a crutch to being new to playing the game, ha ha ha.


This is absolutely after my heart. Iíve seen too many Ďbeen there, done thatí characters, a bit of a power fantasy for players. But they then feel uncomfortable when learning the game contradicts their hopes for their characters.

Learning about the world at the same pace as the character ... well, thatís what a successful protagonist is.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 09:18:19 AM
Unko: If my winkyface wasn't clear, acid burning is a viable choice. When we respec the sheets, we might need to add the 'affects objects' modifier to your power effect, which would cost a point but I'll let it slip for now. I know you asked a few questions, but that's the only one I'm directly answering for now.

Your attacks do have to pass a check against the resistance of the hatch. Each material is given a certain resistance by the core game, a lot like the toughness stats of characters. In trying these things out, you'll get an inkling of how powers work.

I'll wait and see if Cat has any solutions of his own, just so all three of you can flex your characters' muscles.

Edit: I should point out that although the hatch is visible, neither Wild Card nor Bill Morgan could fit in the gap between the damage on the machine and the hatch.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 09:45:57 AM
Ah, that's an additional thing. Alright, looks like we got a couple things to change up. That's cool.
I was going to give Cat a chance to get a word in, but then as I lay in bed, I kept pondering, and decided what the heck. I'll give it a shot, see what happens!
Anyhow, now I'll return to trying to sleep, and leave it be until tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 06, 2018, 11:13:11 AM
I go to sleep for a few hours and everything happens. Either you aren't in the US, or your guys keep very strange hours.  Or live in California.  Which arguably counts for both of those.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 12:40:21 PM
You all picked the exact right tools for this exact job. Except DJ, who threw a card at the problem. C'mon, man.

Proud of y'all. Update shortly.

I'm in the UK, which is why the updates will come to you either first thing in the morning and last thing in the evening. It's also why I spell things like 'centre' and 'colour' correctly.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 03:38:30 PM
Hey, I was just running with my character's anger and confusion with the card toss. He was venting and not thinking. Thought I was supposed to be rping. :P

As for me, I run weird hours...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 04:12:45 PM
Holding this spot to talk about powers and to give Reep ideas on rejiggering Cat's and Unko's as well as PC PLs latter in the day.

EDIT:  Okay, concerning the object damage, Reep, see page 156 of the Hero Handbook as well as the GM section of said handbook for info on handling that and the idea of out of combat stuff.

Concerning Unko's character powers, the wall-crawling is an easy one.  Just add a movement (wall crawl) to his form which will only cost an extra point.  The real problem area is going to be his acidic bite/acid venom because the cost is going to be pretty high.  I'd consider combining parts of the Venom power (pg 16 of Power Profiles) with that of the Corrosive power (pg 63 of Power Profiles) to get what you are looking for.  Depending on how you build it, it's going to cost between 3 to 5 points per rank though, which is going to throw off the reworking quite a bit...see later in this post for suggestions on getting around that.

As for Cat's Shatter ability, I'd look into either changing it over to the Shatter power (pg 167 of Power Profiles).  That one affects objects only and would work for what he's already used it as...that and it's not the most expensive change over either..I think 2 to 3 points per rank.

Now, to mitigate what could be a massive point swing with powers and needing to get rid of advantages or points elsewhere to make that happen, might I suggest moving the PL level up to around PL 9 (somewhere around 130 and 140 points) once we get this section of the arc done?  That way we could afford to make these changes without having to go back almost to the beginning with building the characters, esp in Unko's regards...that acid venom is going to cost a ton. Also it would help to increase the ability of some of the PCs seeing as none of us at first glance seem to be paragon/powerhouse archetypes like Reep the Barbarian was....give things a bit evener playing field perhaps.  Just an idea...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 04:37:47 PM
I recall two things needing to be adjusted for my character.
Wallcrawling (can't believe we missed that...) and my acid secretions.
Anything I might have missed? Granted, we haven't gotten to combat yet. I know I've got a bunch of advantages there, that I'm not yet sure how they will play out.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 06:15:02 PM
Destroying objects felt a bit clumsy while I was rolling for it, but I realised that I was reading the rules of how to destroy objects during action. I was wondering why the game would force players to only partially destroy an object when they could easily just try the same strategy again. (I broke the rules a little bit: both the hatch and the machine should be damaged but not destroyed, the latter reduced to the brittleness of glass.) In an action round, when each move matters, partially destroying an object might make things interesting.

Iíll dig a little deeper to see if thereís any standard for attacking objects when not in combat. Otherwise Iíll just go with my gut.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 06:59:08 PM
Okay...I posted what I had to say and such to give Reep and all ideas for future rejiggering.....luckily everything I mentioned for page #s and such, I know Reep has....and I'll keep looking over stuff to see what else I can come up with over the next day or so....might've missed something in the Power Profiles that might work out for the changes Cat and Unko are looking at....
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 07:20:23 PM
I dunno if you have seen my completed sheet, DJ?
The acid had been built as a ranged power, as she will learn to formulate globs of it to toss around, almost like throwing water balloons. But we also discussed the fact that she'd be secreting it and often using it as a close contact power too. I don't know if that means it has to change or what the deal is. Essentially I had the idea that all the ants in her colony have been engineered so they can produce an acidic substance, doing this only on the queen's commands of course.
The creators in charge would have intended this to help with burrowing, and the idea was she'd learn how to use it for combat over time. I have no problems reworking this power. Doesn't even have to be globs thrown yet, that was just the original idea.

Right now it's:
Acid Spray - Linked Effects - Blast (+2) [ Multiattack (+1) ] Affliction - Acid Burn (+1) [ Multiattack (+1) ]
Rank: 3
Cost per Rank: (5r)
Total Cost: 15


Feel free to adjust this attack to whatever seems more correct for the power...

PS: Google searched and am reading this... http://www.atomicthinktank.com/viewtopic.php?t=11834

EDIT: Oops, am I suppose to keep character sheet stuff under wraps? I apologize!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 07:32:58 PM
EDIT:  Okay, concerning the object damage, Reep, see page 156 of the Hero Handbook as well as the GM section of said handbook for info on handling that and the idea of out of combat stuff.

I didn't find anything specifically about destroying objects while not in action. The Create bit was useful, but it referred back to the same stuff I was looking at. I'm tempted in future just to add a circumstantial DC (somewhere between 5 and 10) and add that to toughness.

Quote
Concerning Unko's character powers, the wall-crawling is an easy one.  Just add a movement (wall crawl) to his form which will only cost an extra point.  The real problem area is going to be his acidic bite/acid venom because the cost is going to be pretty high.  I'd consider combining parts of the Venom power (pg 16 of Power Profiles) with that of the Corrosive power (pg 63 of Power Profiles) to get what you are looking for.  Depending on how you build it, it's going to cost between 3 to 5 points per rank though, which is going to throw off the reworking quite a bit...see later in this post for suggestions on getting around that.

Not to give too much away about the character sheets, but the changes we need should only cost two points total. The acid secretion only needs an additional flat +1 modifier to fulfil the requirement, and the wall climbing is 2 points unless there's a modifier we can think of.

Quote
As for Cat's Shatter ability, I'd look into either changing it over to the Shatter power (pg 167 of Power Profiles).  That one affects objects only and would work for what he's already used it as...that and it's not the most expensive change over either..I think 2 to 3 points per rank.

That's literally what he already has. That's the one I was a bit disappointed in, but now that I realised that the rules for it were talking about action moves it makes a lot more sense. If someone relies on their armour, Cat could inflict an enormous debuff. It just isn't very potent if I use the rules for action rounds during non-action.

Quote
Now, to mitigate what could be a massive point swing with powers and needing to get rid of advantages or points elsewhere to make that happen, might I suggest moving the PL level up to around PL 9 (somewhere around 130 and 140 points) once we get this section of the arc done?  That way we could afford to make these changes without having to go back almost to the beginning with building the characters, esp in Unko's regards...that acid venom is going to cost a ton. Also it would help to increase the ability of some of the PCs seeing as none of us at first glance seem to be paragon/powerhouse archetypes like Reep the Barbarian was....give things a bit evener playing field perhaps.  Just an idea...

You thought you could win me over that easy?

Actually, I was kidding about Reep. I didn't actually test long enough with each character for a decisive winner. Since all of you have ranged attacks, he's relying on his toughness. Since he wears armour, Cat in particular would absolutely slay him.

I've kinda balanced the campaign against PL8 as best as I could, so it would take a little bit of effort for me to change that now. If we find that the PL restrictions really do cause some severe limitations, then I'll consider it. But I don't think they will. Some limitations may be there on purpose.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 07:55:19 PM
Checking http://www.d20herosrd.com/6-powers/effects/effect-descriptions/movement-movement/
Should my character have "safe fall" too, or is that too much? Ants don't get hurt from falling on account of being so tiny, however I wonder if in combined form, she'd reach a velocity that would cause more damage? Or would she just spread out? I dunno, are there any experiments where they drop a large cluster of ants from a huge height? Ha ha ha.
Apparently a lot of people have been asking what happens to an ant if dropped from the Empire State building, and the answer is it would probably be okay, but if that ant was dropped in a place without air resistance, then it would die just like anything else.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 07:58:24 PM
Drop a few handfuls of ants off your roof, then get back to me.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 08:04:30 PM
Ha ha ha.
I'd never do that. Poor, harmless ants.

I think her elongation would probably make up for the safe fall in general actually, right? She'd be able to extend her colony or flatten out to reduce wind resistance or whatever. That's stuff a "stretchy" character could do, so it seems logical.
Mr. Fantastic turning into a sail to glide around or whatever.
I don't know how much every little action has to be fine tuned in the character sheet. You're the GM anyhow!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 08:10:02 PM
The post you have I think revolves around the second edition rules but am unsure....and no, I've not seen your character sheet..am just running stuff of the top of my head and what I can find in the 3E books that I have on this....depending on how Reep is working the rules for the powers depends on how things would be reworked.  I'd change it out some to being more of a cumulative damage with a weakening affect instead of just the acid burn section..and maybe array instead of a linked effect (would save some points perhaps..but it would mean that one would be ranged and one would be touch and you couldn't use them at the same time)..but that is just me...this depends on what Reep thinks...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 08:12:05 PM
EDIT:  Okay, concerning the object damage, Reep, see page 156 of the Hero Handbook as well as the GM section of said handbook for info on handling that and the idea of out of combat stuff.

I didn't find anything specifically about destroying objects while not in action. The Create bit was useful, but it referred back to the same stuff I was looking at. I'm tempted in future just to add a circumstantial DC (somewhere between 5 and 10) and add that to toughness.

Let me dig through my stuff tonight and I'll see what I can find...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 08:26:24 PM
Drop a few handfuls of ants off your roof, then get back to me.

..and I gave Reep an idea of where to look for an idea...after he'd already got your character worked out....oh well..... :wacko:

..and somehow I'm posting galore...wheeee...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 08:46:19 PM
Acid Spray is linked so that when attacking someone it damages and afflicts them in the same move. Otherwise Queen Ant would need to decide what exactly her acid is going to do to the people it targets.

There's something called a Dynamic Array that you could use to add the weaken effect. That allows you to choose multiple effects at once but at reduced effectiveness. When we respec, I'll design it as an option. As DJ says, it may come out cheaper. Possibly enough to pay for the other changes without having to touch your other stats.

The power I'm using looks like this. I think yours might be marginally outdated, Unko.
Acid Spray - Linked Effects
Blast
Multiattack
Affliction - Acid Burn: Vulnerable, Defenseless.
Multiattack, Limited Degree, Ranged


I think 'Insubstantial' does the trick for safe fall. Queen Ant has no structure, so there's nothing to be kinetically damaged. Even if some ants do get sacrificed in the event, you have regeneration too.

Can we all just that a moment to appreciate how much imagination went into this character sheet?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 09:17:35 PM
That depends on the rank of insubstantial that you put on Queen Ant....if you just do Insubstantial 1 (liquid) then you don't get the safe fall type idea because you can still have a strength in that form.  Insubstantial 2 and up would give you a potential for safe fall because you no longer have a strength in that form and are unable to affect the world around you...that is one problem.  Like I said, look at the Collective's form (it's made of a hive mind of roaches)....I'll PM you the powers on it tomorrow, Reep, so you can see what I'm talking about. 

As for the acid spray, as long as she is spraying (ranged) she shouldn't have to worry about how it affects them in the same move...it would automatically be a damaging move with a continued weakening vs toughness affect afterward...same with a bite...that's why I considered a regular array instead. At least that's how I read the rules...but it's up to you as always.

And hey, what about my character sheet?!?! I had to think it all up with no help!!  :P
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 06, 2018, 10:31:25 PM
Cat raises a good point. For the sake of this forum RP style, if another character can see something in plain sight (ie: hasn't had to roll perception) then you can assume you can as well, provided you're near enough. That's just to keep things moving.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 06, 2018, 10:46:03 PM
Just as long as we know they see it, right? I mean, that idea could be used to create things that aren't there and affect the adventure is why I'm asking on that....I don't want to assume ahead of time or such...just want some clarification is all.

Edit: SO logic based then?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 06, 2018, 10:49:19 PM
This is what I went ahead and assumed when the queen took notice of the metal hatch with the glowing light, prefaced with DJ's talk about it emitting light and following Wild Card's card throwing in the general area.
It seemed like a logical step at the time.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 07, 2018, 12:58:06 AM
Okay, after going thru my M&M books I think I've got the answer for attacking objects outside of combat. Pretty much you treat it like combat with a few changes. First, you don't have to roll initiative seeing as the object doesn't have one unless it's a construct like a semi-automanous turrent or an android/golem. Second, the attacker can choose to roll the attack which also gives the character a +5 bonus if it hits. Or they can Take Ten and get an automatic hit without the +5 bonus rolling does. Now here's the interesting thing, if the Routine check (Taking Ten) "fails" - doesn't beat the DC - then the PC can do a roll just like a normal Routine Check.

So, say I attack a table and Take Ten only to fail then I can go ahead and roll the die to see if I can hit it and then get a + 5 bonus (you get the same bonus for "finishing attacks") on the damage roll against the object's toughness. Hope that makes sense and helps you, Reep.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 07, 2018, 01:31:18 AM
Just as long as we know they see it, right? I mean, that idea could be used to create things that aren't there and affect the adventure is why I'm asking on that....I don't want to assume ahead of time or such...just want some clarification is all.

The ladder was specifically mentioned as something that Queen Ant saw.  It wasn't something I assumed.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 07, 2018, 03:20:39 AM
As a player you know the rungs are there but your character has no idea they're there until he sees them or Queen Ant messaged about them. Sure he can assume that there are rungs or something going down but until he actually knows for sure, it's not a given. Sure, as players we know that their there because they were described to Unko's character. That was why I asked for clarification because it felt a bit like metagaming to me...I wanted to know how much wiggle room Reep will allow. I know somd gms who would jump down your throat and dock a pc exp for any form of metagaming while others woule encourage it up to a point. Just wanted some clarification.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 07, 2018, 03:55:40 AM
I did want Queen Ant to send information to both of you concerning the hole and what was below, but then you guys came down quick so it didn't really matter. I assume this is what cat was referring to, and his character would have much more experience getting thoughts off of animals. She has a fairly decent range of psychic communication, and she'll start being more outright communicative soon. (I'm also unsure of how much time we should take per character post, and how people will react and such. Getting the hang of that.)
So far your character seems to be pretty good at ignoring her, but I guess this is a city full of oddities, so what's one more?

It was a honest notion, I think. Not purposefully trying to metagame.

EDIT: Oh, and to clarify about my character's communication; She communicates through an odd combo of instincts, pictures, feelings, actual word formations. That being said, we'll start to treat it as a bit of feeling but mostly just regular talking, as she learns more about language in general. For example, she wouldn't understand a turn of phrase, however if you said it to her she would understand the meaning behind it, based on your understanding of what you are trying to convey. Does that make sense? Ha ha.
Really, we are going to end up treating it as standard talking for the most part, I think. But since she doesn't have vocal chords or a mouth/lungs big enough to produce air vibrations that could be heard, she needs to talk somehow. But it's really more the meaning behind what you are conveying rather than the actual words you are making. I mean ants also don't hear sounds like our human ears, they use their body to sense vibrations.
Maybe this doesn't clear things up at all.
Ha ha ha, whoops.

Game mechanics is distance speaking, understanding and being understood by creatures with enough capacity, if I recall.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 07, 2018, 04:33:14 AM
See, I didn't consider it metagaming because it was something that was right in front of my characters eyes now and there's no way we couldn't see that.  I mean, if Reap wants us to wait anyways fine, but I saw no reason to wait to be told my character could see what he very obviously could see and just assumed that would be obvious to everyone.  Didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition about it. (of course, no one ever does)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 07, 2018, 04:46:52 AM
My character has ignored your transmission Unko cause I wasn't sure how to depict them per say...that and he's had some possible history/training concerning psychics...maybe...who knows? That's something we'll maybe learn in the future...maybe...doubtful though.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 07, 2018, 05:06:15 AM
By the time we've figured out what's happening under this place and finished up our first encounter I'm sure we'll all be fast friends, ha ha ha.
I can picture us now, sitting at a diner, Wild Card annoyed with Organ King's cheerfulness, disgusted with Queen Ant getting all up in the sugar bowl.

PS: I think we could probably get another round of actions in before Reep has to say anything. Sorry, I'm so itching to go! Soon I won't be posting throughout the entire day.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 07, 2018, 05:29:38 AM
I'm not sure about fast friends. I know for sure Wild Card wouldn't be found in a diner...but not for the reason you may think.

You and Cat might be able to do some interaction and such...I kinda need to hold on posting until Reep describes the room I'm stumbling into alone...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 07, 2018, 05:32:28 AM
Oh my gosh, you're so mysterious.
Oh, did you go through that door? I was wondering if you were going to check for traps or something like that first. Are these doors just unlocked?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 07, 2018, 06:16:38 AM
That's also why I'm holding on my post...got to find out if I'm going to need to use some skills or not to get in...

And me mysterious?!? More like I'd rather not give away a lot about my character...be more interesting for everyone to learn about him in game...if he decides to not be secretive or such...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 07, 2018, 07:49:52 AM
I also didn't see that case as metagaming. In order to not see the rungs, you would have needed to not be looking at the shaft. None of you have that short of an attention span (I hope). You were going to see and use the rungs anyway, so it saved me a little bit of typing. And I wanted to show off my map. Thanks for noticing, Unko.

It's definitely in the direction of metagaming, ie: using another person's viewpoint to see what's going on. But I'll only ask that it be retracted if you use it to your advantage or deny someone else their ability to participate. Otherwise, I might just send you a soft slap on the wrist and move on. Pace is king.

Quote
Okay, after going thru my M&M books I think I've got the answer for attacking objects outside of combat. Pretty much you treat it like combat with a few changes. First, you don't have to roll initiative seeing as the object doesn't have one unless it's a construct like a semi-automanous turrent or an android/golem. Second, the attacker can choose to roll the attack which also gives the character a +5 bonus if it hits. Or they can Take Ten and get an automatic hit without the +5 bonus rolling does. Now here's the interesting thing, if the Routine check (Taking Ten) "fails" - doesn't beat the DC - then the PC can do a roll just like a normal Routine Check.

This is more or less what I was doing. My issue was that if someone failed to destroy the hatch or the machine, then on their next turn they could just hit the hatch or the machine again. This probably wouldn't be an issue to me on a tabletop, since that dialogue would happen quickly. But here, it could be a few hours between Cat trying the first time, failing to destroy the machine, then trying again. These are the sorts of things I'd like to avoid. To avoid that, the outcome must be binary: you either destroy the object, or you don't have the tools required to do so. I'll think about how to turn that into a mechanism so that it isn't totally arbitrary.

Combat is another matter, since after partially destroying an object or failing to destroy it the scene would still have time to change. It might be that by the next move, trying to destroy the object is no longer necessary, viable or possible.

To speed things up, I just ran rolling for the attack and would have removed the +5 bonus if they failed.

Edit: I'm thinking of rolling the effect rank (sans +10/+15 bonus) against the toughness of the machine +10. In Cat's case, he has rank 5 in weaken. He would have needed to roll 14 or higher to destroy the machine. He could routinely destroy anything with toughness 5.


Unko: I forgot about your particular advantage. If I have time this morning, expect a PM.


Cat:
Quote from: Me
Cat raises a good point. For the sake of this forum RP style, if another character can see something in plain sight (ie: hasn't had to roll perception) then you can assume you can as well, provided you're near enough. That's just to keep things moving.

This was in response to your question in your last post (and not to ladders). You'd be able to see the rats and who they are going for.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 07, 2018, 09:09:23 AM
Quick question:
Is it right when I try to give a bit of options for actions based on what may happen? IE: "She tries to command them not to turn their hunger on her, but if they are too mad with starvation she will flick some acid towards them in the hopes of scaring them off."
I was doing it to try speeding up things, as in if an action I have taken leads to this, then I'd do that and you could counter with whatever, Reep. At least, for out of combat situations like this.
Also, still not 100% certain on how often I should be doing quick mental scans. I'd want her to be giving off low level a lot of the time. Do I have to call it?
Out of game, got a distinct feeling about this goo, but even if it were alive I dunno if it would have brainwaves. In game, I don't see that she'd be doing a particularly deep scan if the rats felt like the brainwaves she was getting before. If, however, she picked up on the other human over by Wild Card... She might try to probe deeper.

And yeah, I like the map! And the convenient coffee stain. Very cool!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 07, 2018, 09:19:03 AM
Oh totally. Go ahead and post IF; ELSE statements. In fact, feel free to post ahead until the point you no longer have the knowledge to proceed. Iíll accomodate as best as I can.

For brainscanning (we should probably decide on a term) let me know in the narrative when youíre trying it. Iíll roll awareness, and that result would account for until the scene significantly changes. Similarly, you only get one chance of succeeding telepathy with an individual until that character goes through some sort of state change. Otherwise you could just reroll failures. (Which is allowed, actually, if you spend a hero point).
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 07, 2018, 09:40:31 AM
I like brainscanning. (for love of the mid '90s movie) I'll try to make it stick, but I might slip up.
Ahhh, okay. That's how it operates. That makes sense, thank you. Good to know.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 07, 2018, 10:16:19 PM
Hey DJ!
I figured you had some sort of mental blocks. Taken into account. Internal monologue, and secret thoughts, all yours.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 07, 2018, 10:25:50 PM
I am perfectly fine with Bill acting as a translator.  It works somehow.

Also this storyline has kinda fixed the origin of my character's powers, or at least the monkey side.  It forms a complete contrast with what the Queen Ant went through though.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 07, 2018, 10:55:30 PM
I realize that I just inadvertently implied that there are a bunch of other superpower Capunchins running around somewhere.  Eh, whatever.

EDIT: Also note that this isn't intend to have anythign to do with the currently storyline, although Reep can do what he wants with it.  I just though of it when Queen Started communicating and the lab thing had been mentioned.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 07, 2018, 11:09:30 PM
I'd say just use normal quotations for speaking, unless you want to send a message that only she can hear. Or, at least, once we get to know each other better. I suppose your character would be use to mind-speak with an animal.
Her telepathy isn't meant to be too deep, honestly. Using a person's emotions and forefront thoughts she is picking up on the sounds they are making. Though now I'm thinking it would have been cool to take a bunch of sweet mental powers.

It's basically just a way for an ant to communicate with the people around her (and with all the other ants in her colony, or others). But useful for "passing secret notes," and detecting the presence and intent of other people. Possible communication link in the future, ala Mentor?

Sorry, didn't mean to get all confusing with it.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 07, 2018, 11:12:15 PM
Since Wild Card mostly doesn't get your telepathy, I figured when the three are around each other, it could be confusing if I didnt' distinguish between what he says out loud and what he says mentally.  That's why I switched to italics.  I could see that becoming more confusing than it needs to be.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 08, 2018, 01:14:51 AM
...And great, I'm the only single mind, non-experiment/test subject PC...yay...

As for mental blocks, I wouldn't exactly say so...more like previous training perhaps...that's up to Reep really. As for the inner monologue, it's a way to drop hints and slight clues to other players. about my character and the mystery about him. Kinda a way to increase the confusion/mystery surrounding him.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 08, 2018, 06:59:18 AM
To be a bit more clear about Queen Ant's powers, it is kind of a one way street. Queen Ant has a very high awareness score and insight skill, so can naturally pick up on vibes, but she doesn't have a mind reading effect.

The advantages of her particular powers is that she is able to speak to anyone of any language, speak at a greater distance, and select the recipient without being heard by anyone else. She can understand any language, but they have to be spoken to her verbally for the message to get through in their entirety.

Since Bill Morgan also has a similar effect, though limited to animals, he can send messages back. Which basically means you guys can talk behind DJ's back. I didn't really think this one through.

The power is as 'effective' as normal talking. This means that the recipient can opt to ignore it. It isn't forced into a character's mind.

In both cases, you need to be willing to share your thoughts. Unless there were an uncontrolled modifier on your communication effects (which would be super interesting), you can communicate how you see fit. DJ can keep his thoughts to himself. You'd both only understand him if he actually spoke to you.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 08, 2018, 07:02:17 AM
Great...just great...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 08, 2018, 10:49:17 AM
Technically, Bill Morgan himself is a PC, and is not an experimental test subject.  At this point I assume his powers were just something he was born with, although I may come up with a more specific explanation later.  Don't plan on it though.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 08, 2018, 04:53:47 PM
I went and updated/add a long spoiler to my "wander to computer" post so everyone understands why WC doing that. Don't worry, he'll get back to Josef but he wants to spend time finding out stuff since he didn't get the chance to because BM and QA seemed to wander into the room just a few seconds after he got there.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 09, 2018, 08:34:39 AM
Just to warn you all, during weekdays I'm gonna have to start updating in UK evenings only. Trying to fit in time to update in the morning before work is really, really crunch. And it's when I usually watch the news, so now I've got a few days of reality to catch up on because I've been writing about superheroes.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 09, 2018, 08:53:10 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me, Reep! Means get a post in once a day in response to what you describe...so I don't have to stop and check every few hours. I like that!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 09, 2018, 08:59:47 AM
Yeah, exactly. Though don't feel like you must post immediately after each update. I do take the laptop with all the character sheets into work. I can make minor updates for minor actions, with one daily major update.

Having said all that, I forgot to mention I work from home on Fridays. Which is practically the same as not working at all. At the time of writing, I am in my dressing gown and pyjamas. It's great. I just hope nobody comes to the door on Friday mornings.

I'm about to make an update since I missed yesterday evening, but it's gonna be a heck of a doozy to work through.

Cat suggested a little while ago about putting the character sheets on a google drive. I may be able to password protect each of them for you individually if I do that. Does anyone know more about google drives than I do to know if that's possible? I've always found it a bit too clunky.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 09, 2018, 10:48:42 AM
I actually wasn't talking about Google Drive, but Google Spreadsheets.  Each sheet can be individually protected and shared.  However, if you've already got a setup you want to work with, it might be more trouble than its worth.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 09, 2018, 10:57:04 AM
I think there's value in you guys being able to quickly refer to your own character sheets. That way you can get a better feel for what your characters' strengths and weaknesses are and how you might be able to apply your characters to situations.


Also, to repeat a spoiler I made on the IC thread to settle my concerns with attacking objects:

I finally got an answer to attacking objects. Objects don't make resistance checks, they just take the damage based on the difference between Bill's weaken effect and the Toughness of the object. That means that Bill's shatter effect will always destroy anything equal to one inch of stone (which a clumsily made barricade I imagine to be less) during action, but may routinely destroy sturdier things outside of action (My discretion will be involved). Otherwise, he will lower the toughness of the object down to the difference of his weaken effect.

Quote from: Page 188
Objects do not get resistance checks; the effect works on the targeted object at its maximum degree of success. At the GMís discretion, someone holding, carrying, or wear- ing an object can make a Dodge resistance check against the effect, representing pulling the object out of the way at the last moment.

Drove me nuts trying to find that.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 09, 2018, 01:47:32 PM
I'll say that I will probably only get to post once or twice a day over the weekends cause of a lack of steady internet connection.

As for the character sheets, I've a copy of mine (the most recent one before the considered rejig) on a flash drive that I keep with me.

Oh and Reep...trying to recreate Pack Rat again? ;-)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 09, 2018, 02:38:40 PM
I knew youíd spot that.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 09, 2018, 03:00:22 PM
I knew youíd spot that.

The slime threw me off originally but once I saw that Jasper there had animal legs and combined with the rats in the other room....I still got to go in there at some point, must remember that.....it kind of came together....
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 09, 2018, 03:05:31 PM
I was going to use the existing Pack Rat character in the first design for this scene, but it became increasingly clear that a new character could kill two birds with one stone.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 09, 2018, 03:11:20 PM
I was going to use the existing Pack Rat character in the first design for this scene, but it became increasingly clear that a new character could kill two birds with one stone.

That and Pack Rat would've killed these three characters in no time...

I'll also try to get the combat actions page together and up somewhere so everyone can know what they can do...some time today...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 09, 2018, 03:14:22 PM
So, I am also in a new position. Thurs-Sun, but I have to get up early in the morning and can't mess around with the internet until the evening. My posts will come slow as well. Too bad because I just started some action!!!

What's this Pack Rat character? I guess I'll find out!

As for google drive/docs, which is basically the same jazz, you can indeed just share individual files. Right click the file, get the share link, make sure the file's permissions is "anyone with the link can share" or "can edit" if you want us to be able to change our own. Send the link.
Only to the file, not to the folder. Then we can only access our own file, and done! I use google docs for lots of things, from music and video colabs, to just showing of pictures, to work documents, etc etc.
(I am not affiliated with google.)

Okay, so... I'm going to hold everybody up now because I have to leave soon. Sorry!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 09, 2018, 03:19:20 PM
No trouble at all! Waiting on players or myself to post is going to be a tone for the game, so we might as well get used to it.

Pack Rat isnít involved in this campaign. Heís an example character available in the corebook and appears in a couple of basic guides. Jasper Forbes (spoiler: his name is Lab Rat. Proud of that) is just loosely modelled off him somewhat.

From memory, I think Pack Rat is PL9. Youíd have been able to take him.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 09, 2018, 03:34:14 PM
No trouble at all! Waiting on players or myself to post is going to be a tone for the game, so we might as well get used to it.

Pack Rat isnít involved in this campaign. Heís an example character available in the corebook and appears in a couple of basic guides. Jasper Forbes (spoiler: his name is Lab Rat. Proud of that) is just loosely modelled off him somewhat.

From memory, I think Pack Rat is PL9. Youíd have been able to take him.

Pack Rat is not in the corebook, he only shows up in the Threat guide...and he's PL11...that and he comes with minions...so we would've been spanked at the moment....

Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 10, 2018, 01:17:12 AM
Took a hit... Aw, rats! See what I did there? Ha ha ha.

I got to check out how HP works in this game again. I think it was a few levels of states?

I'm going to wait for the others to post before I make my next move. Organ King might have a way to back me up here, since he'd have just seen what went down.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 10, 2018, 01:45:32 AM
Actually, I'd be more useful in combat I think (not sure as I've no idea about other folks characters) but I can't get there even though Bill is calling for help even though WC told him to get in the room - and thus out of my character's way so he could safely attack without hitting someone else. Oh well...way things go...nobody seems to hear or listen to WC anyways...wheee...

Edit: While I'm thinking about it, is the thing Lab Rat is holding considered under Total Cover or just Partial Cover for combat?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 10, 2018, 01:57:56 AM
I did go into that room.  I said to break the barrier, then walk into it.  As far as I know, I'm not in the way.  In case I actually am, I added an optional movement.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 10, 2018, 02:13:29 AM
The fact that Reep didn't roll an initiative for you after you shattered the barricade is why I don't think you might have. Reep might've just missed it, unsure, but at least with the edit we know for sure you are there now.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 10, 2018, 02:35:47 AM
What do total and partial cover mean? Is this for attacking the object?

Unfortunately my ants don't have enough experience with people yet. Durrrr. She might be a super fast learner, but go to have experiences first, and has to get used to, you know... considering other people. Actually talking to you guys, and whatnot.
Hope I don't get immediately curb stomped though!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 10, 2018, 02:49:49 AM
I'm not sure if Reep wants you to bother with what those are yet, Unko. I'll let him decide if you guys are ready to worry about that yet seeing as he's the Gm. I just want to know about the answer, just in case.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 10, 2018, 03:00:36 AM
The fact that Reep didn't roll an initiative for you after you shattered the barricade is why I don't think you might have. Reep might've just missed it, unsure, but at least with the edit we know for sure you are there now.

I did notice that Reep didn't mentioned that I had entered the room, but I did indeed say that I would do so if I successfuly destroyed the barrier.  Maybe he either missed it or forgot to mention it. 

Either way, I'm covered now.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 10, 2018, 07:15:35 AM
Sorry for the lack of clarity, I assumed you could all read my mind.

Bill would have been able to enter the room around the time that Lab Rat was advancing. Since the circumstance in the room changed, I didnít know if Cat still wanted Bill to saunter in. Happy to assume he did.

Since youíre funnelling in the door one at a time, Iím going by who is in the room first for this round, then rolling initiative on the next. Remember, initiative determines the order that I read the posts, rather than the order youíre expected to post in. So Unkoís move can hover there until those initiative rolls happen. (Having made the update post and done the rolls, Cat's post is in limbo too)

If the barricade were still up, Lab Rat would be behind full cover from Bill and WC. The thing Lab Rat is holding is protected by Lab Ratís dodge and by its own toughness. Lab Rat doesnít provide cover to it.

Iíll start adding code tags at the end of my posts that do my best to update exactly where characters are, states they may be in and any circumstances that may affect them. I forgot about Queen Antís circumstance penalty, which should really only be -2. -5 is huge, now that I think about it.

I'll add that here in particular is where the nature of running this on a forum deviates from running it on tabletop, since real time discussion makes a huge difference. For instance, you will find your posts aren't being responded to until some time after they're made and they may be seemingly arbitrarily ignored for a post or two. I am reading them, I just may need to let them hover until it is that character's turn. My priority is to keep up the flow and pace first and abide by the rules second. Bear with me while I devise how is best to do that and be aware that the methods I use this time may change as I experiment and refine this format.

I'll also say that I'm pretty pleased with the speed this has gone at. You've gotten through most of this scene in the space of a week, which sets a good tone. I imagine the pace will slow a bit as we find a routine that suits everyone, but I think there's some wriggle room to slow things down.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 10, 2018, 04:16:56 PM
Well, there is some investigating to do after the fight still, Reep. ;-)

Also the free move I get, is it a standard or just a move action?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 10, 2018, 08:18:20 PM
Oh, yeah, it's a standard action. You can move instead if you like. The two are usually interchangeable, you just can't do two standard actions in a turn.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 10, 2018, 09:49:20 PM
...unless you use extra effort and are willing to pay for it the next round...

...either way I think this battle might be over before it gets started. Love that initiative...;-)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 10, 2018, 11:26:38 PM
Oops, okay, I'm a little lost now.
Did Organ King do his sonic blast then? Did I do my scatter? Or did we skip those because DJ has his turn first?
If so, can I do other actions instead of scattering?
I may need a little bit of a "this is what has happened in the action phase so far" rundown. Sorry, ha ha.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 10, 2018, 11:40:21 PM
The sound blast will happen during Cat's turn as will your scattering happen on your turn. I went first because my initiative beat everyone else's. After that will come Rat, then QA and then Bill. We'll be going in that order for turns until the combat ends or somethings changes the order. You can call out your actions ahead of time and when we get to your turn you'll take those actions. Right, Reep?

And yes, you can change the action ahead of the turn in reaction to things happening. Correct?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 10, 2018, 11:49:24 PM
Those moves are still pending. Itís just that DJ is pulling out every trick he knows to get as many hits in as he can. This last post is his last part of his turn. With that done, Billís and Queen Antís actions will execute.

After you grabbed Lab Rat, and Lab Rat attacked you, Billís roll to spot him didnít succeed, so he didnít react during the surprise round.

DJís staggered turns went as follows:
Stealth won surprise attack
Card throw using surprise attack
Won first in Initiative, so the next turn would be his anyway
Attempted melee, but failed
Used extra effort to get another hit in (pending: Iím on my phone now so I canít check character sheets).

Thereís a whole load of tricks like this. I was hoping to ease you guys into the strategy, but I think DJ is an advocate of the exposure therapy approach.

I think I may ask that if you are considering using extra effort or a hero point, make an ďelseĒ statement so I know ahead of time. Iíd quite like to be able to update the whole round in one go. Weíll see how practical that is.

Yeah, youíre welcome to change at this point. Iíll manage things more clearly next time - I did the surprise round clumsily and didnít let you guys in on what was happening enough.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 12:02:55 AM
Hey, they had the powers to get past things that I didn't...got to get my fun time in too. ;-)

Sorry for making the ease in a little short there, Reep. Didn't know you were going for the ease in setup...my fault. At least everyone gets to see some of the tricks and manuevers that folks can do in combat and maybe give them some idea.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 11, 2018, 03:59:26 AM
Hmmm... I guess I would like to read it as a narrative? It would make sense better in my head?

If Queen Ant caught the dude, he got out, she got slashed, then the other two came in and one of them immediately attacked the creature... I'm just trying to see it from a narrative comic book standpoint instead of a game standpoint. What are the actions this character would take if these other things happened? You know?
That's just how I am coming at it. I'll just leave her action hover until the next round though. She scatters and tries to 'hide in plain sight' if that's an action I can try using right now?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 04:19:19 AM
Some times you got to wing it on what the character might do, Unko. Just look at WC's actions, would you really had expected him to act like he was in his "element" (he only is kinda in it...but that's something else) with how he's acted up to that point? Not exactly but it's part of his background that drives that...or is it... :P

Consider this, what is the first thing that pops into you mind if someone attacked QA? Is it defend herself? Would she retaliate? Would she run? Whatever it is, go with that!

As for combat as one whole commentary, I'm unsure about that. I'm used to seeing what each action does before deciding how I want to proceed...kinda work tactics and strategy to plan each move (just check my posts for that). It's an old habit I developed from years of tabletop rping.

Actually, Reep, I think we can combine both styles and make it work. If we handle it a bit like the example of play on pgs 242-243 of the Handbook, it might work with some minor changes. Not sure how to handle the unsure of extra effort use like I did would work...probably an if, then situation.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 08:17:53 AM
If it helps, you have to imagine that a lot of these actions will happen simultaniously, with only seconds in between. So Bill and Queen Ant isnít just standing there like a numpty while DJ kicks the rat around; thereís a mere sliver of time right now that weíre hanging in where Queen Ant is still reacting to getting hit.

Maybe Iíll place extra effort / hero point moves at the end of the rounds. That way extra effort only kicks in if other heroes havenít achieved the desired result and makes more sense chronologically. I'll think about that for next time.

Thereís definitely going to be a difference here from Tabletop gaming, where you have to think ahead or try and predict what other posters might do. If situations require some strategy (this one doesnít), some OOC collaboration could happen.

Also, yeah, hide in plain sight is legit.

Edit: Made the post. I hope it clears things up on how things might happen narratively/chronologically. Turns start and end at approximately the same time, only the things that happen during the turns might happen with a second or two difference. Opting to wait and see what other characters do is, therefore, a viable In-Character decision. It doesn't skip your turn, but it will prompt me to narrate up until your turn so that you can respond (ala: a tabletop game). Just keep in mind that doing so will slow the pace, so only use that liberty if you feel like that level of teamwork is necessary. You could say there's an advantage to going last.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 11, 2018, 02:30:06 PM
Actually with Reep's big post now, I am caught up again. Everybody's stuff is laid out nicely.
Thinking of everything happening at once also helps, yeah! And thinking QA will just do what she's going to do anyhow.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 05:39:10 PM
Prob with putting extra effort at the end is the fact you can use it for other things aside from an extra attack...like improving skills/attacks/advantages during that PCs turn or for defense or whatnot temporarily. That's something we'll have to work out somehow...

...and seeing the numbers, I'll pretty much be the earliest one, unless Reep's dice keep hating me, to go for the PCs which would mean I'd have to declare a delay action on my actions to move my turn to last and have it stay there. As per the actions/manuevers pages.

Edit: Got to ask, is that Science skill for QA - the one you rolled with - an expertise skill? Just wondering...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 07:09:52 PM
Oh, sure. I'd just take it on a case-by-case basis and you'll all have to live with whatever I decide.

It's only a narrative thing. If the extra effort extends your move by a few seconds, it would be a couple of seconds where other characters are standing around like potatoes.

Yeah, that was Expertise: Science. Glean of her origin what you will from that.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 11, 2018, 07:14:48 PM
Okay, so I'm hidden now... are there any sort of hit bonuses for stealth and such?
I'm not as good at resistance checks now. I'm not as good at moving now. Does that also affect elongation? Is that how it works? But I have pretty good elongation.
Sorry about all the questions! Trying to "think out loud" in a way that people can chime in with their knowledge.
I didn't take any acrobatics or athletics, so I'd be just horrible at tripping right? Is that what I'm reading? But with my improved grab and hold, that's suppose to be pretty good, even though he dodged me last time, ha ha.
What's this throw on my sheet? Throwing... enemies? Or throwing stuff at enemies? I am assuming the former right now.

I guess a lot of that info doesn't matter and is metagame stuff. I'll just post with whatever feels right for the character to do, of course.

EDIT: Also, yeah sure, I know about science, unfortunately I don't know enough about people to think it's something worth telling you guys about, at least not right now.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 07:20:33 PM
Reep: Just wanted to make sure was all on the skill. Didn't see it amongst reg skills so that was why the Q. Also...mmm...taters...

Unko: If you attack while stealth you get a bonus on your attack IF you succeed on your stealth test vs LR's precep test.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 11, 2018, 07:27:41 PM
Ahhh, okay. That makes sense. And I do have a bit of stealth skill.
What about the trip thing? Can I trip or is it more feasible to try grabbing again? Or what is that throw?
These actions are all similar from a character standpoint. Basically seeing you guys attack Lab Rat again she would try to get him prone in some way that you could damage him and she could drop some acid his way as well.
I don't think she's really throwing punches with her colony, for the most part. Grabbing, swarming their feet, having their mouths and eyes fill with ants, other gross stuff like this.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 07:40:18 PM
If you are able to swarm a target, that's handled like a close combat attack though you'd end up being in the same space as your target till your next turn. Thus you'd be potentially vulnerable to attacks aimed at LR.  Grab is like a grapple, you hold the target and could cause Str damage - depends on advantages - each round you maintain the hold. However, once more the target can resist the grab too. Trip is just that a trip attack wherein you try to trip the target. However, if you don't have certain advantages, your attack has a slight disadvantage and your target could get a free action against you immediatly afterwards. As for Throw, I'm guessing that is if you use an object lying around and throw it at them...but that has a disadvantage without an advantage or a ranged combat skill towards that...and depends on strength too.

Don't you have a ranged acid attack, Unko?

Hate to say it but it looks like of the PCs, Unko's MIGHT need the most potential power/other reworking from what little I know of the character. That's just my opinion though...not worth much, in all fairness as I not the GM or QA's player. :)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 11, 2018, 08:08:13 PM
Yes, but she hasn't used her acid in that way yet. I was going to fling some but then everybody else showed up and I dunno if she'd just splatter everybody with acid or what.

I didn't super build her for attacking. I mean, I didn't build her for anything in particular other than being a character I thought was really cool. I didn't think about combat situations or how the game was played at all, ha ha.
So she might need some overhauling, I have no clue.

Trip seems like a pretty lame attack to me, now!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 08:15:47 PM
With a lot of those manoeuvres, anyone could do them. You'd only be horrible at them if you have some sort of penalty that makes you sub-average. Otherwise, it's not a case of you being bad at them, rather the opponent being good at resisting them.

Since we've already learned that Lab Rat has the Prone Fighting advantage, eliminating any penalty that tripping him up might have inflicted, it's certainly no use here.

Everybody gets a throw attack. It popped up on some of the tools I was using to calculate the characters. It varies slightly depending on stats, so I put it on the list of attacks to make my life easier for reference.

I don't think Queen Ant is far off the mark. A lot of the effects that go towards the whole 'being a load of ants' thing are expensive, though. Sacrifices were made.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 11, 2018, 08:21:58 PM
Oh, he does? Ha ha, I totally missed the prone fighting thing, whoops.
I am okay to change my move also, if you guys don't think it's the correct move. I am okay with a bit of hand holding right now, to be perfectly honest. If you guys think I should try some acid flinging, I can do it.

I had planned to get in close try for grabbing again, then once she did that, you could lay on and she would acid. Even though the first time she tried grabbing him, he smacked her, she feels emboldened by the others and like his being distracted to help her chances. That was my thinking about it, anyhow. But maybe he'll just dodge again, at which point I'd be tossing out some of the acids.

Who knows what'll happen though. It seems that do-hicky is giving him some kind of forcefield, so it might just be a bunch of ants scattering on the air around him.
Yeah, the fighting will take me a bit of time to suss, since I don't really have a kicking punching type of character.
EDIT: Though thinking about it I could see her bringing down the hammer in a sort of Sandman way. Like, having a fist that is a literal hammer and hitting somebody with it. Now that I am thinking about this more.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 08:32:20 PM
Unless you fail badly on the attack roll, you shouldn't have to worry about hitting anyone else. Trip has it's uses...it just doesn't seem that way at the moment.

NOTE: WC isn't exactly built for combat per say...he's more along the lines of a  utility character. I went that way because after talking with Reep a little, I was worried about the team balance (all I really learned from that talk was that the your two Pcs were an organ grinder and a mass of ant...I used my imagination and guessed on possible powers based on my knowledge of the game). If it weren't for that "unbalanced" feel I had, I probably would've gone with another idea. And really, aside from Reep and myself, who knows how useful WC is as a utility type.

WC does have a deep history, some...potentially interesting EC hangouts, and a few different motivations/intrigues...which gives Reep a lot to work with in the future and a lot for me to RP with. But that's all you get to learn, for now, concerning WC. :P

EDIT: That was why I floated the idea of uping the Pl to 9 after this, Reep. It would allow some PCs the ability to clean those sacrifices a little...not much seeing as it would only add ten to 15 pps at most. But as you said, you got the scenerios made for PL 8 already, so best to stay there so as not to add any extra workload to you.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 11, 2018, 08:53:31 PM
Mine was designed as a support character.  A shield he can put other other people and a disorienting blast, although his blast doing damage was intended too.  Reep seemed to assume the shield was meant more for himself, so the main change I'll want to make it to bump his physical state a bit so he doesn't need the shield to not be squishy (because he's meant actually be able to use it, not get a GM warning about how weak he is every time he tried to do so) and probably knock the sonic blast down to single target.  I see no reason for any other changes though.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 09:15:16 PM
Unko, if you wanna change your move, you better make it quick. I'm partway through the update post.

Cat: There's a good option where we can make your support power work selectively over an area. It's not quite the same as the protection effect, and I've forgotten the name of it (like enhanced trait, I think?) but it could be used to enhance multiple effects. So instead of the deflect/protection combo, it would have one effect that increases both dodge and protection for multiple people at a time. You could then have your own personal force field to stack on top of that and make yourself less squishy.

I did realise what it was you were after, but it was only when I actually saw your own toughness plummet to 2 that it occurred to me it might be a problem.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 09:25:24 PM
Somehow I have this feeling Lab Rat is coming after my character...not a nice feeling with how much Reep's dice hate me...oh please be nice dice!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 09:37:02 PM
I took a screenshot of the dice rolls.

You're gonna wanna see it when I'm done.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 09:53:49 PM
<whimpers> That potenially bad?!?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 10:39:59 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/7HqGatn.png)

Just to at least partially prove I'm not cooking the dice.


(Though I remembered now what that 3 was. Lab Rat can't make a move and attack, so I was thinking of what he could do at range. Originally, I was rolling for Lab Rat to make a feint attack, since he has the Agile Feint advantage. But for the life of me I couldn't work out how to narrate that in a way that didn't seem really clumsy. Then I spotted the 'Charge' move.)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 11, 2018, 10:46:34 PM
It might be better in a more open environment, but my character is essentially stuck doing nothing for now, unless he wants to hit his friends too.

Although--how long does that bonus last?  If it's still good through his turn, then the bonus might make it worth to use it anyway.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 10:51:05 PM
Like I said in game, I WANT a new pair of ACTUAL dice! No more of these blasted ones! They hate me and I despise them!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 11, 2018, 10:52:55 PM
Does transfering the shield count as a full action?
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 10:58:56 PM
Yeah, it's a standard action. You can still move in addition to it.

Remember that you can use the deflection part of it independently of the protection part. So you can keep the toughness buff for yourself, but can also defend for others. The deflect effect works against both melee and ranged physical attacks. Using it basically means that an attack needs to go through two defence checks.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 10:59:40 PM
Keep the shield, Cat, it won't really become useful to WC till next round. By then I'll have recovered some of my damage...enough to move and give Reep's computer dice the finger.

Edit: I'm going to us the recovery latter, this fur-faced arse is going down! But keep the shield, Cat, as I'll have increased defense when I do use the recovery next round.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 11:19:37 PM
I'm thinking Unko's grab is a little underpowered. Grabbing is based on strength, which isn't QA's forte. Lab Rat can escape with his acrobatics skill, which is large. Even suffering the penalty from Queen Ant's Improved Hold (which I did forget in the first attempt, but went back and found it'd get resisted anyway), he'd only need to roll 2 to escape.

Elongation gives her +4 to her grab checks, but not her grab effectiveness.

The only thing I can think of is to create a power with its own grab effectiveness. If you give a power 'grab based', then the grab DC is based on the effect of that power.

We could make a dynamic array that includes the long ranged acid and short ranged weaken, as well as the grab power, essentially freeing up the required points. It stands to reason that using more than one at once would reduce the effectiveness of the others without eliminating the option to grab someone and try and melt them. Maybe throw burrow in there, now I'm thinking about it.

Also, she needs the chokehold advantage. Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 11, 2018, 11:22:53 PM
You didn't answer the question about how long Inspire lasts.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 11, 2018, 11:23:48 PM
Then maybe you should fudge the rolls a little to make up for it. Or start handing out some hero points to ease the mistakes. ;-) And then we can consider the grab...I'd think less a grab and more a snare type idea that is a close-only. Get with me after the scenerio and I'll help you come up with some possibilities...or you could give QA Fast Grab and Grabbing Finesse advantages...if her DEX is better than STR.

EDIT: Also changed my action...sorry for the constant changes, am done now.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM
Apologies, Cat. It goes on until the end of your next turn.

The inspire effect is obviously pretty limited, but we could outfit you with an array that encompasses most of your existing attacks and adds an enhance buff to offence. You could only use one at a time, but thatís more or less the case weíre in anyway.

The effects could be

- Single Target Damage
- Cone Area Damage
- Dazzle affliction
- Deflect/Reflect
- Enhance Offence (of some sort)
- Shatter

While keeping a separate power that allows you to protect yourself.

DJ, maybe Iíll give you hero points when you quit complaining about my dice.

Grabbing finesse was on her character sheet for a little while early on, but we took it off because who remembers. It would help a little. Iím posting from my phone now and my computer is all the way over there, so I canít tell you by how much.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 11, 2018, 11:54:29 PM
Looks like QA needs a bunch of overhaul then. In my mind, I thought she would be good at grabbing and holding targets (though, I think Lab Rat is suppose to be quite the slippery fellow).
Plus with her colony of ants body she'd be able to do other stuff while holding somebody down. That is what I thought.
I'm okay with giving her a total rework, but sorry about the extra trouble it will be Reep!
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 11, 2018, 11:59:06 PM
Oh, I donít think itís a major job at all. In fact, it could end up saving some points rather than costing them. Most of your stats could safely remain where they are, though a little extra defence may be called for.

This whole scene was about throwing the characters at the wall and seeing what sticks. Literally, in DJís case.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 12:00:42 AM
But I'm just following my complications:

Dice Purist - DJ prefers the use of actual die instead of the slightly untrustworthiness of randomize number generating computer programs. He will voice it loudly when the program constantly rolls twenties against him.

M&M joke... :-P

Also your joke stunk, Reep. :-P

Oh, and you might want to see if Ratboy overcomes QA's hold or my trip before Unko's turn so he can decide what to do for actions. :)
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 12, 2018, 12:13:45 AM
Oh can he overcome before my turn? Because it'd be your move, then the rat, then me right? Truth.
If he gets out or not, I'm going to come to the same conclusion. The thing he has is probably what's causing the vibrations, so time to get it away and neutralize it. Acid up, acid up. Hope he doesn't manage to dodge it.

EDIT: Now I am reading about how grabbing works https://roninarmy.com/threads/4980-3e-How-does-Grabs-and-Fast-Grab-work
https://roninarmy.com/threads/899-Elongation-and-Grab-bonus  (Was not that helpful, ha ha)
I also have that improved hold right? So they get -5 circumstance? He still only needs a 2 though, hey? Hmm.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 12:55:59 AM
Rat gets a chance to overcome the grab during his turn. As for the grab, the reason he has such a low number to overcome your grab is because it's his DEX vs your STR. That's why I mentioned Grabbing Finesse...it would mean your DEX VS his DEX instead and may give you a better chance at maintaining the grab.  That's also why I went for the trip this round instead of the recovery or the attack cause Rat will have to use a move action if he wants to stand up.

And I'll say that the forums for M&M are a bit...weird...because you get 2e info combined with 3e at the same time. If you're not careful, things get screwy fast. Just ask Reep about what it was like before I shared a few things with him...

Also, I'll be using my next full turn as a recovery action.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 12, 2018, 02:42:14 AM
Ahhhh...

Yeah, my dex would be better to use AND grabbing finesse seems to already have Improved Grab bundled. Should have just gone for that in the first place. I didn't realize the hold part is reliant on strength, but also reading it, it seems like grabs give lots of chances to get away. Two per turn? How would I ever start putting a chokehold on somebody?

And yeah, they got all sorts of interesting but confusing stuff. https://roninarmy.com/threads/4372-Area-Grabs-Trips-and-Disarms
Or even this info, "Grappling Block from Warriors and Warlocks lets you get a free grab when you are unarmed and successfully block in melee combat."
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 03:21:37 AM
Both of those are 2E examples instead of 3e. The one prob with the trip I went for is Reep gave Ratso Prone Fighting and high ability scores (seeing as he's rarely comes out with a combined result below a 12 yet - not blaming the dice on that...). Who knows, I could be smoking something?

I'm just hoping Ratface doesn't keep up with the 20 die rolls against me, or maybe he decides one of you two look like easier targets next round...

With how this whole scenerio has gone and my luck, I STRONGLY doubt any of  that happening...

To be honest, for awhile a part of me has considered asking Reep to kill WC and calling it a day...and that has nothing to do at all with the dice rolls. I could care less about those right now, so don't even confuse what I just said with that! I am not going to eloborate on it, though. Not my place or want to right now. For the moment, I'll ride the game out - no matter how it goes - and we'll see what happens afterwards.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 12, 2018, 08:54:06 AM
If he gets out or not, I'm going to come to the same conclusion. The thing he has is probably what's causing the vibrations, so time to get it away and neutralize it. Acid up, acid up. Hope he doesn't manage to dodge it.

Roger. That helps, thank you.

I think I remember our discussion being that QA was looking too grab-centric as we were approaching the PL limit. Itíll definitely be worth exhanging a couple of advantages to bring back that focus.

Though DJís idea of easing off the grab and picking an immobilising affliction effect on a power is a good one. Weíd have more control over how the power works, and we can tailor the outcome to the same effect as grab. Plus you donít lose mobility when grabbing. It can be made harder to resist too. All sorts of fun.

It could even be part of your dynamic array that weíll do. Itíll lose its effectiveness (by half, iirc?) if you try and attack the ensnared target. But that makes sense.


As for finding advice online, Iíve just started taking the corebook at face value. Iíll try and find other incidents of whatever it is weíre trying to do for reference, but straight up advice is either convoluted or unhelpful. Except where they reference page numbers - thatís handy.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 12, 2018, 09:12:46 AM
That could have been true. We did discuss a lot of possibilities that, after play start, I totally forgot about. Ha ha ha, whoops.
You lost me with that dynamic array stuff though.
But you guys are right about these forums. The info I found is all over the place.

So, steady on. Let's see what shakes loose.

Hopefully we can get this sucker before he beats on poor Wild Card too much.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 12, 2018, 09:25:34 AM
An array or dynamic array are powers with multiple effects, but you can only use one effect at a time (or in a dynamic array, multiple effects at reduced power).

The key thing is, you only pay for the most expensive effect.

Itís easy to abuse and just give yourself all the things, so I have to manage it a bit. But now that Iím seeing the characters in action and understanding more about what you guys hope to get out of them, designing these sorts of powers is much, much easier. There was zero chance I was ginna get it right first time.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 03:18:27 PM
There's one prob with your idea on the immobilizing affliction. QA would have to put a sustained effect if you wanted to hold it for more than one round thus keeping the character from taking any action aside from moving and sustaining the power. Without the sustained effect, it becomes a one round effect and he ends up wasting each turn using immobolize and nothing else.

In truth, QA is a character idea better suited for a PL 10 or higher game to make her viable.

And with the array, you spend the highest cost plus 1 for every power added after that. Making every thing dynamic adds to the cost of each power too. I think it makes each power after the highest cost 2 pts instead, per the power additions section.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 04:03:36 PM
And on the thought of LB taking down WC, Unko, at this point it would be fine by me. I just don't care anymore if it goes that way or not. I'm at the point of just walking away from this whole thing.

Course if I go down, that pretty much means a lose on the session because of the lack of offensive powers for your's and Cat's characters. Rat will tear thru you unless the GM does something to balance things out for you two or brings in some type of hail mary/out-of-nowhere help/intrusion to make things easier for you two.

While I've no idea what is in Reep's mind, the actions and LR's stats seem to be set more for a four person team - each with an offensive power - compared to what we have and no one has earned a hero point beyond the one they start with or such to help things...I doubt it. But that's just my honest opinion and right now...it's worth less than used toilet paper.

Yeah, I'm tired, a little annoyed, and getting to the point of regretting ever participating in this. Nobody take it personal, though, it's more how this whole adventure scenerio and how things have gone - from very early on - that has me like this. It's a combo of a lot of things. <sighes>
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 12, 2018, 04:36:10 PM
I'm sorry to hear that. I was really excited about this whole thing! I still am greatly enjoying the story and where it is going. But, you got to do what you got to do. Nobody can blame you for that.

I still hope to see how this plays out. And cat posts soon! Ha ha.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 04:47:14 PM
Unko, you're new to playing so I can understand your excubrance - everything is new and interesting and fun.

Me, I'm an old table top rpg warhorse (I've helped in developing some even) and there are somethings I kind of expect from everyone involved to have fun and immerse myself in the character/game. I'm okay with working with newbies and teaching them. I don't expect as much from them as I do others...

This has just felt more like a job to me for some time now. I know that once this scenerio is over Reep plans to talk some about it and hope to fix it or something. I just don't know if I really care about getting there anymore...and yeah, Cat, please post for your turn when you get the chance.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 12, 2018, 05:17:54 PM
Lab Rat is PL7, with fewer points spent than the PL limit. If he hadn't rolled so many crits, he shouldn't have been an issue.

DJ, everything you've done to help and to keep me in check has been hugely appreciated, but I never asked you to do it. You shouldn't feel like you should have to. After I had finished setting things up, I wanted to stop treating it like hard work as well. I don't put much time of my days into this if I can help it, else it stops being a game - or even an exercise in creative writing, which was a large reason for me to do it - and becomes a labour.

But if you're not having fun, you're not having fun. I can't really do much to change that.

Sorry
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 05:20:19 PM
Yeah...well...<sighes>...and it's not all about you either, Reep, and you know that...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 05:49:08 PM
...though without my initial help via PDFs, you may have given up on the game before it started...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Reepicheep on February 12, 2018, 05:50:52 PM
I was trying to decide on the nicest way to say this, but I don't think there is a pleasant way.

The game is marred by knowing it's a labour for others. It's hard to want to carry on now that it's clear that one another might not be enjoying this game. It has now, for me, stopped being a story and will become a drag to the end.

Selfishly, I don't want to play under that circumstance.

So I'll call it there. Thanks folks.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 12, 2018, 06:05:39 PM
Aw rats.
All that work! I'm sure you had some interesting things planned Reep.

Well, I'm disappointed, but can't begrudge anybody. I had an enjoyable time and thanks for trying. If anybody wants to start something like this up in the future, count me in.
I can even make a more mundane type of character, if it will help with the game.

At least now I don't have to check the forums twenty times a day, to see if anybody updated anything.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 06:11:41 PM
I was trying to decide on the nicest way to say this, but I don't think there is a pleasant way.

The game is marred by knowing it's a labour for others. It's hard to want to carry on now that it's clear that one another might not be enjoying this game. It has now, for me, stopped being a story and will become a drag to the end.

Selfishly, I don't want to play under that circumstance.

So I'll call it there. Thanks folks.

<whacks Reep upside the head>

Let's finish this {expletive}-ing scenario before deciding that!!  I have yet to say or decide if I'm actually quitting or not!  Jeez..jump the gun much?!?!  And thanks for putting it all at my feet too....

Just cause it's not working right now is no bloody reason to call it completely!  Let's get thru this scenario and then talk it over like you had originally told me you would before making this dangnabit decision!  You got two players who are enjoying themselves and would at least like to see this part through...so let's finish it!  And hell, maybe I'll start having fun again with it..who bloody knows if we don't continue it!

And before anyone asks me...I will not GM a game...
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 12, 2018, 08:55:04 PM
Sorry I didn't post sooner.  I was at work and was unaware folks were waiting on me.

And now this.  I was personally very much enjoying it and was hopeful it wouldn't just stop like all other attempts to do an rpg on these forums has.  Oh well.  I, for one, was having fun.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 12, 2018, 09:41:07 PM
See Reep, you got folks having fun and wanting to play..so let's get this back rolling!  Jeez....just because I'm not at the moment doesn't mean we need to stop it...hell, I might find it fun again further down the road..but without trying we won't ever find out.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 12, 2018, 09:54:15 PM
Okay, so as players, we are agreed that we're cool to at least play out this scene however it goes.
Hopefully that's enough, Reep!

 Personally, I thought it seemed like there was a lot of interesting stuff left to do around here, and I am curious to learn more.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 13, 2018, 12:03:19 AM
Cat, what would you've done on your turn if it had continued?

<- contemplating something...maybe Gm the final bit and then have that talk Reep had mentioned to me and then see where it goes. I really don't want to gm it but if it's the only way to finish this segment, I'm willing to.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: catwhowalksbyhimself on February 13, 2018, 12:39:24 AM
I was just going to blast the rat and hope my Inspirational boost was enough to protect the two of you.  That's why I was asking about timing.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 13, 2018, 12:45:26 AM
The inspire would give the pcs an advantage on their rolls to resist the effect so there is a high potential it would work.

If Reep is willing to give me the info for the scenerio or if he comes back to gm it himself, we'll start with that round of action. Right now we just gotta wait and see what happens. 
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 16, 2018, 05:00:45 AM
Looks like this is pretty much done for. Since Reep posted his message he hasn't been back on FR. Either he's spending time with RL stuff, moved the game to another forum and leave me in the dark (guess I can't blame him for that), or who knows. I've thought of emailing him but that doesn't seem like the right thing to do or for me to be the one to do it. So I guess what was reached here is it. <sighes> Sorry folks...I guess pile the blame on me...I expected too much or have abnormal standards or am just a plain killjoy...whatever it is the fact that I wasn't enjoying the game yet killed it...my fault...sorry.

Edit: Someone who saw this and had been watching the game (and who I'd talked to a few times about the game) told me I shouldn't take the blame on my shoulders. This person says I should explain why I wasn't having fun and about the things that were marring the game. I'm not going to do that because it won't change anything or mean squat to anyone. What's done is done and really calling out the problems will not clean them up nor change things in the future. I'll take the blame on my shoulders...it's just easier.

This pretty much ends my posting game time...won't be participating in any anytime soon.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 24, 2018, 06:22:26 AM
I wanted to mention this earlier, but didn't want it to sound weird but, like... Don't beat yourself up about it, sheesh.
It was an experiment. While I DO think you just didn't let things naturally pan out, I DON'T think there's a need for anybody to feel any blame for anything, or for anybody to feel hurt about anything.
We're all pretend internet pals on this cool forum who just love superheroes. So, thumbs up, no big deal. If we want to try again sometime or start over or whatever, I certainly have no problem making more of a "standard" super hero, as I told you privately, and leaning more towards the game side of role playing game.

Anyhow, I hope the time is passed and things are all good now?! All good, no worries.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: Deaths Jester on February 24, 2018, 05:49:45 PM
...and as I told you in private messages - some of it, at least - I would've let it naturally play out IF it weren't for some major things that kept the game from playing naturally. Those things kept the fun from happening for me and they were things that could've/should've been fixed, addressed (when it came to players at times), or patched by everyone the moment they came up instead of just moving on. Truthfully, the fault this failed falls on everyone to different degrees. I'm just more willing to step up and take it on my shoulders than point out the problems or let anyone else bear the fault. Anyway, if it weren't for my not having fun this might still be going and Reep might've not disappeared into the internet. So, it's my fault...just accept that and let me bear it as I see fit because, in the end, I'll actually feel better about the whole thing that way.

And like I said in the update, it's easier this way. No one gets ticked off or have their feelings hurt or turned off of rpgs...just easier this way.
Title: Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
Post by: UnkoMan on February 25, 2018, 02:10:26 AM
Alright.