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The Marvel Thread

Started by Previsionary, December 24, 2008, 11:48:35 PM

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HarryTrotter

Eh,its your thing,Im not judging.
Peter Parker The Spectacular Spiderman #1 Im sure that sets a record for the most guest appearances in one issue.And most continuity references.We get it Chip,you read Spiderman before.
Spoiler
Oh,and Peters sister is back.At least I think its the same character as before.It was one GN and that was a long time ago,who can keep track of long lost relatives?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

kkhohoho

So apparently there's another new Thor running around wielding Ultimate Thor's hammer, and in a rather bizarre twist, it is, all of people,
Spoiler
Volstagg. Whose children were apparently murdered and, now that he's had a Bad Day ™, he's become a crazy MOFO.

Benton's gonna love this one. ;)
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

daglob


SickAlice

That was a weird twist. Also sort of nonsensical. The reasoning is he was traumatized by war. Doesn't make sense though, he has surely seen so much carnage in his eons of existence that it's hard to believe one more would push him that far over the edge. Also I didn't like that they took his girth away and made him buff. Muscle isn't everything and fat is part of who people are, in fact in this era art should promote it more not less. Kind of feeling a " Hulk Family " thing happening here otherwise, like all of the close cast are becoming Thors where all of Banners close cast became Hulks.

HarryTrotter

Another great Marvel idea,take away everything that made She Hulk unique and turn her into a generic Hulk character.
I recently finished Excalibur v1 and Spiderman v1: Tombstone(weird numeration there).But who would care anyway?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

SickAlice

Looks like we fully agree on something Spade, regarding She-Hulk here. Literally the worst She-Hulk comic series I've ever read. Almost every issue that came out thus far in fact there is no hulking out. Jen eating cookies and watching online clips, some no name character in a ratty apartment, repeat every issue. Hits a little hard since She-Hulk comics are generally celebrated by me and usually end up being the standby comic when everything else fails. Yeah actually I would recommend to anyone not wasting their dollar on it, close to dropping it myself. And I would care. Excaliber V1 was top shelf stuff, good for you. Really your on the right track I think to be reading older stuff in trades and I've been doing more of that myself. Not that all new comics are poorly made, quite the opposite but what they tend to be is something completely new and for me as a nostalgic that's not why I pick them up every month. In that vein though I'll give it to the X-Men books for finally getting back to much of what worked rather than trying to steer away from it all the time.

HarryTrotter

Actually,Im not sure if that was sarcasm.
I didnt say everything new suck,and I obviously follow a lot of stuff.But not everthing is God Country.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

HarryTrotter

So the 52(seriously) new Legacy titles are revealed,and there is nothing new about them.For all the bs about doing a Rebirth of their own,its a standard quarterly reboot.And judging by the reactions,Im not the only one who stopped caring.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

kkhohoho

Quote from: Spade on June 25, 2017, 05:25:07 PM
So the 52(seriously) new Legacy titles are revealed,and there is nothing new about them.For all the bs about doing a Rebirth of their own,its a standard quarterly reboot.And judging by the reactions,Im not the only one who stopped caring.

I stopped caring years ago. I guess I was just ahead of the curve. ;)
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

daglob

I gotcha beat... I never cared in the first place. :lol:

HarryTrotter

Not that anyone believed Alonso in the first place.
And again I ask,how long can you continue with this?Each reboot experiences diminishing return.You lose more and more readers with every super-mega-giga-status quo changing forever-event.
At this point I think a blank slate reboot would be the only way to salvage anything.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

crimsonquill

#3401
Quote from: Spade on June 26, 2017, 04:41:17 AM
At this point I think a blank slate reboot would be the only way to salvage anything.

200% Agree. They even had the perfect spot for that "bright flash and everyone wakes up in a new world" moment when Secret Wars ended but Marvel had so many titles still in the middle of the old story arcs before the "crossover event" started. They let those arcs conclude while stalling with "All-New All-Different All-Confusing" storylines in the main titles while wedging in characters from the Ultimate Universe but lots of interesting concepts from the Secret Wars tie-ins were just left to waste instead of having the All-New All-Different Marvel Universe become the melting pot of all of the alternate characters from all kinds of worlds left homeless. It seems we are getting that NOW with Marvel Legacy which seems to be the core timeline justing itself to some drastic event in the past creating a time quake which brings back older version of modern characters who may or may not remain once the plotline is resolved. Which just gives me the feeling of Marvel pulling from DC's reboot bag of tricks after their grand plan of their fresh start just stumbled and fell apart with critics and fans alike.

- CQ
"He said let there be light... CLICK! It was a lightbulb. And It was good."

HarryTrotter

Not really.While the teasers implied a mix of old and new heroes and some returns,none of that is actually happening.Everything continues as it did till now.Just back to #1 ofc.
I think the only new series is Marve-two-in-one,but that will probably go to Bendis,so I wouldnt celebrate.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

SickAlice

Not to be jerky or something but your reading things I'm not posting for some reason. It's kind of weird mate.

HarryTrotter

To be fair,your stream-of-thoughts writing style doesn't make you easy to understand.
Anyhow,like I said before,if you enjoy the current titles,great.Good for you.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

SickAlice

#3405
To be fair that's true. I tend to ramble rather than get to the point. What I said though was I wasn't enjoying the event tie-ins, just the Captain America Steve Rogers book as I think the writing is that solid even if the premise is wacky. My top books every month are out of the mainstream really but I try not to prejudge either Marvel Or DC nor it's staple writers. Every now and then they can pull off a win. Bendis likewise I attest is a great writer, he just more often suffers from being on books that do not match his writing style, like Avengers for example. But I'd swear by Jessica Jones and Scarlet from him.

In fact to note why I don't enjoy big events, Marvel especially but DC gets faulted here too.
1.) They tend to be editorial run causing too many books to be in the series just to sell titles that otherwise don't need to be. Likewise this interrupts the story in progress and sometimes leads even to cancellation (see A-Force).
2.) Whichever silly new status quo is utterly pointless in advance. In the promos Marvel will sell this as " the state of the Marvel Universe going forward ". But we all know that's a lie. None of this will matter, the Marvel Universe will up-heave once again in a month or two and everyone (Steve Rogers in this case) will just be back to normal and forgiven as if nothing happened anyways. Gosh the whole Legacy thing especially is just too on the nose here. A story is empty when the aftermath is anti-climatic, that's just basic story structure.
3.) Stemming from two Marvel is in too much of a rush to get to the next event and status quo. The huge problem is we are not given ample time to enjoy what they have laid out. Your reading and liking a new book and/or character then...poof, new status quo doesn't have room for them. I call this "The Echo Effect", pointing at Maya Lopez.

Hopefully that clarifies. It's not like an event has to be weak either. Infinity Gauntlet was a good example. Then again it was pretty self contained and had long lasting effects that weren't just waved away thereafter.

I also give a lot of rope to the fact that both Marvel and DC often, and nowadays more than ever, have a huge legal issue to deal with. After several noted lawsuits the fact is that they just don't fully own the rights to their own canon anymore. Add to this they don't own certain franchises either that they're canon was established on. In Marvels case this is two-fold. One being Conan whom much of Marvels history was built on. The other being Hasbro (now with IDW of course) and specifically ROM, The Micronauts, the Microverse and the Dire Wraiths. Marvels canon is heavily invested in those characters but now it can't be so have to do something to compensate. So really not a fault of theirs, neither Marvel nor DC in the past really believed their respective franchises would become as big as they are now so it's reasonable to think they couldn't have predicted any of this. DC is of course in better shape. The only canon flub they need watch for are certain origin specifics of their flagship characters, and mainly Superman. Solved by rebooting and just re-writing/modernizing those little story details of course.

HarryTrotter

Thing with Rebirth was that,first time in a while,DC put some effort into it.They figured out they screwed up and decided to adress it.They reached out to some old writer,gave a chance to some newer(which also involved Tom King,but this isnt a perfect world).
Marvel wants to emulate that succes without doing any of the work.And the advertisment arent fooling anyone.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

SickAlice

Maybe. But circular point. Marvel and DC have been admittingly been copying each others moves for decades in what sells. When you work backward on that line of logic you arrive at neither of them anyways. For reboot you find yourself at the Image walk-off. Not a surprise that both companies then tasked the same persons you made Image have high numbers to redesign their respective franchises (Heroes Reborn and New 52 respectively). For all else everything tracks back to radio shows and strips: Popeye, The Shadow, The Phantom and so forth. Just saying I wouldn't go as far to say copied as applied a regular business move. Really I finger either of them though because they're so eager to get that #1 sales boost they again don't give us a lot of time to enjoy what they're making. DC though did plan this one out clearly as it's an extension of the storyline going back to Flashpoint. Marvel however...well it seems like they didn't have a cohesive plan past Secret Wars really? Like the Marvel NOW that came after was it but sales bombed and they found themselves stuck at a point. Sort of like the DCYOU attempt that DC went through recently I suppose. Marvel added seems to be stuck in a rut in that they're having to cater more to their notable film franchises. I fear in that DC will have to also follow suit after the Justice League movie. Then again that attention seems to have pulled a stellar team on Aquaman so it all shakes out. Honestly though Marvel should follow suit but more in a universe that's about what people want to read: The heroes in their daily lives fighting big name foes. Not another "altered landscape". I mean it's a fine concept and all but how often do you get to read about the Marvel characters just doing as they do in the normal Marvel universe as is? Not enough time given between world shaking events I say.

HarryTrotter

^Yes,obviously,status quo shake-ups work only if you have a status quo.If your still sorting things out after the last reboot...
My point being;its not enought to give a car a new coat of paint,when its clear you need an engine overhaul.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

SickAlice

Agreed. Also and I should have said it in short but DC is making better comics right now. No love lost for Marvel, I like comics any way I can get them. But fact of the matter is that most other companies are saying the same. More on that in that thread though. Hopefully Marvel will get their head out their creative butts soon and get back to what they should be doing: Delivering the goods. I will give them on that they are doing it with the X-books right now though, maybe for the first time in a long time. And the Peter Parker book is a wise move, not that I don't like seeing Peter as a corporate CEO fighting alongside SHIELD or anything *cough*.

HarryTrotter

OH NO,they killed Angelo!Wait,who's Angelo?
Linkara

Anyway,I dusted off Generation X,and it still holds up surprisingly well.Ofc,some of the pop-culture references are dated,but that's to be expected 20+ years later.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

daglob

Yeah, but if you were there, the dated pop references are still funny.

HarryTrotter

If you count Baywatch as being relevant again.
They haven't rebooted WaterWorld yet?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

daglob

Got a book on Marx Brothers movies. There is a reference in one of them (Horse Feathers?) that has a scene where Groucho makes an offhand remark to a woman when she describes her living arrangement. It makes no sense nowadays, but at the time it was a reference to a scandal. I never thought the line was funny, and still don't really after I found out what it meant (except in the broader sense that it's Groucho being a smart a$$). I was never part of the culture which spawned that line. Two things, though, in more recent (but now kinda old) movies: in Mystery Men, when Mr. Furious leaps and you hear "WHUMUMUMumumu..." as the motion slows, I laughed the first time I saw it (along with a bunch of other people). My daughter looked at me like I was crazy. Then, in The Sand Lot, when Benny comes up with the sneakers, I laughed because I knew what brand they were the moment I realized what was in the box. My daughter worries about me a lot...

Anyway, if you were part of the culture that is referenced in a dated reference, it's still funny... to you (provided it was funny to you in the first place). For some of us, dated references are all we have left.

Waterworld II: The Postman Only Rings Once?


kkhohoho

Quote from: Spade on July 01, 2017, 04:53:30 PM
They haven't rebooted WaterWorld yet?

Shh! Don't give them ideas!
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

HarryTrotter

Like if your a Gen X-er yourself,you mean? :)
Yeah,I read it before;thats why Im rereading it.It holds up a lot better then most 90's Marvel titles,all in all.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

SickAlice

Makes sense, it held up better then most titles in it's time too. Which is saying a mouthful since the X-books where at the top of the sales charts then. I like to think of it (then) as sort of the lovechild of the zenith of the X-books in that era. It's what made it work so well.

HarryTrotter

Well,its not timeless like Busieks works,but it certanly holds better then say,Secret Defenders.
Speaking of dusting off things,Marvel Knights(2000 series).I guess it just ended too soon,but in the end,its just...meh.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

daglob

Okay, okay, okay... I found some electronic copies of Squirrel Girl, and in issue #5 someone makes up a story about The Red Skull turning Cap into a totalitarian fascist. This means they are so creatively bankrupt they are now using old plots from Squirrel Girl for their Major Events...

Epimethee

:roll:

(Hey... Maybe Squirrel Girl has secretly become editor-in-chief at Marvel?)
FFX add-on for FFvsTTR at ffx.freedomforceforever.com