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Author Topic: The Marvel Thread  (Read 149149 times)

Offline daglob

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3480 on: October 19, 2017, 03:48:26 PM »
I read an article from someone involved at DC just prior to the implosion. He said that the attitude of far too many of the people was that this was a temp job on their way to Hollywood. I know Jack Kirby did designs for cartoons (Thundar), as did Doug Wildey  (Johnny Quest) and Alex Toth (Space Ghost and others), but each of these had been working for years in comics and illustration. Besides the whole thing that Jack Kirby was The King (and Wildey and Toth were no slouches either). I don't think that most of the present creators really give a darn about the characters, except for the ones they have created themselves.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3481 on: October 20, 2017, 04:45:48 AM »
A lot of creators have moved on to  TV,animation and video games.Money is better.
Or at least went to Image to pitch their own movies.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3482 on: October 31, 2017, 01:11:52 PM »
So,I may be a bit late,but #ComicGate.
https://steemit.com/comics/@jmillerworks/what-is-comicgate-and-why-are-marvel-s-sales-slumping

This being Marvel,they took up arms against several Youtube channels and their subscribers.Yeah,even if you shut down every youtuber who said something against you,that wont solve anything.

And no,this isn't like GamerGate.This is about creators vs fans.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 01:37:12 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3483 on: November 01, 2017, 11:41:58 AM »
Sounds ugly. And sounds like an unfortunately natural progression of what I've seen over the years.
"If you put out a story that needs supplementary reading in order for it to be coherent, then's it's a BAD story! If you thought it was that important, you shoulda put it in the actual damn comic!"
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3484 on: November 01, 2017, 01:51:44 PM »
I always said majority of readers doesnt want Waid and the rest shoveling their personal politics down their throaths.
And before somebody says: Comics were always political because Captain America punched Hitler;its not the same.
Personally,its not about disagreeing or agreeing with your message;I just dont want to hear it,and I think thats not too much to ask.
Or the short version,Waid is an a-hole who cant write any more.Avoid Marvel.It shouldnt be hard.
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Jon Farmer

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3485 on: November 15, 2017, 10:07:49 AM »
Looks like the attention of mainstream media is slowly turning towards the comic industry.And it looks like Mark Waid and Dan Slott might also be guilty of sexual harassment.So far its all just rumors,but somehow,I wouldn't be surprised.  :unsure:
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3486 on: November 15, 2017, 09:07:57 PM »
I can for sure see Slott being guilty of sexual harassment, hands down.  Just the way he acts pretty much says so.  As for Waid, I'm unsure.  True, he's been shoveling his personal politics into his writing lately but he used to be a pretty good guy.  Not sure...wouldn't be amazed though if it did come about he was guilty of sexual harassment...just not sure if it's a current thing or something that happened back in the day.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3487 on: November 16, 2017, 11:34:39 AM »
He sure does act like somebody with a chip on his shoulder.And being a good writer (long time ago),doesnt mean he cant be a horrible human being.
Ofc,its all still just rumors.
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3488 on: November 16, 2017, 01:32:54 PM »
Very true.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3489 on: November 18, 2017, 05:05:13 PM »
Different kind of big news; Alonso is no longer the editor in chief.C.B Cebulski is the new EiC.
His achivments dont seem that impressive,but he cant be worst then Alonso.Right?Right?
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3490 on: November 22, 2017, 04:47:20 AM »
Slott's a jerk for sure, but for whatever reason I don't believe he's a sexual harasser. And I don't buy Waid is one either unless it was a long time ago since he's far more social justice orientated as late. I'll say though Avengers and Champions haven't been bad about the politics for a long time because they've been in a lengthy crossover right now where they fight the High Evolutionary. The only real thing "political" in the heroes kinda rolling their eyes at the HE's followers calling him God and the fact that characters like Jane Foster Thor and Kamala Khan are present. But I don't think them being present automatically should be considered shoving politics into the book.

As for avoiding Marvel, if you mean the online personas, I'm fine, I don't personally engage any of them and I don't read about that that often (I'm not reading any of their twitters right now or anything like that) Avoiding the books, though? Brother, I ain't going to do that. Comics books, at their core, should be entertainment, and I'm only buying books I enjoy and I enjoy them quite a bit. If I stopped buying any Marvel I'd literally be picking up 2 titles (and before this week it would have been 1), not counting trades.

As for the Alonso leaving, probably for the best. C.B. is potentially good. I'm not super aware about his contributions but I think he could probably do a good job. When people talk about the jerks he doesn't tend to come up.
"If you put out a story that needs supplementary reading in order for it to be coherent, then's it's a BAD story! If you thought it was that important, you shoulda put it in the actual damn comic!"
~Linkara, Atop the Fourth Wall Final Crisis review

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3491 on: November 22, 2017, 03:41:38 PM »
Iv been told I complain too much on the internet,so I will try to keep this short,and brutal.I just dont care.
This isnt the Marvel universe I liked.Or even the one I came to tolerate.
You cant go home again,I know.Whatever the mercenary nest of washouts,journalists and deviant artists wrapped in foil and sold as chocolate;I wont be there to check it out.Everything aside,they are not making good comics,thats the bottom line.
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Offline daglob

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3492 on: November 22, 2017, 03:57:41 PM »
Iv been told I complain too much on the internet,so I will try to keep this short,and brutal.I just dont care.
This isnt the Marvel universe I liked.Or even the one I came to tolerate.
You cant go home again,I know.Whatever the mercenary nest of washouts,journalists and deviant artists wrapped in foil and sold as chocolate;I wont be there to check it out.Everything aside,they are not making good comics,thats the bottom line.

Felt that way for decades...

Offline kkhohoho

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3493 on: November 22, 2017, 06:46:15 PM »
Iv been told I complain too much on the internet,so I will try to keep this short,and brutal.I just dont care.
This isnt the Marvel universe I liked.Or even the one I came to tolerate.
You cant go home again,I know.Whatever the mercenary nest of washouts,journalists and deviant artists wrapped in foil and sold as chocolate;I wont be there to check it out.Everything aside,they are not making good comics,thats the bottom line.

Felt that way for decades...

Oh come on. Everything up until recently was fine. Yes, there's been crap, but there's always been crap. That said, SE makes you wonder...
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3494 on: November 23, 2017, 05:24:04 AM »
No,its been crap for a while now,its just that some things provided a final nail.At least IMO.
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Offline detourne_me

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3495 on: November 23, 2017, 11:26:39 AM »
Event fatigue, decompressed storylines, betraying classic characters for short term gains, a lack of basic editing, and poor writing and art for more expensive comics. Yeah, I havent bought a Marvel book in a while, canceled my Marvel Unlimited subscription a few months ago, but signed back up for a free month with the Punisher promo code.

In the meanwhile I gave DC another chance and have really been enjoying Batman, Mister Miracle and Bug! About Forager of the New Gods.

Offline GhostMachine

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3496 on: November 23, 2017, 04:25:45 PM »
The problem is Marvel has fanboys and people who would rather be doing something other than comics running the company......into the ground.

Offline daglob

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3497 on: November 23, 2017, 05:53:03 PM »
I keep starting this and it develops into a rant that I can't follow after I write it.

Very little that I knew about characters I read in the '80s is still true. The characters are revamped, re-imaged (made more like an Image character?), updated, rebooted, re-invented, matured, re-designed, retconned, and sometimes regurgitated.

...and if I go much beyond this I start to rant again.

Okay, so I'm old; I started Spider-Man with #11 (got #9 and #10 next week), and the FF with #19. I read these characters for years, until... I think they started writing them more for the writers than the readers.

I keep ranting.

The skill and care, possibly love for these characters, of the guys and gals in the Bullpen made me care for them. Stan Lee and any combination of artist, Roy Thomas, Archie Goodwin, Marv Wolfman, Gerry Conway and all the other writers and artists treated these characters with a kind of respect. That no longer happens. I understand the desire to create you own character (hey, look at my icon), but re-writing an existing character to make them your own doesn't always please the existing readers nor always draw new reader to the mag. The changes come faster and faster so the failures do too. I quit reading the X-Men because I couldn't stand to see characters I cared about in pain all the time. Claremont did that. But the writers and artist on the series before that made me care that he was torturing them every issue. Maybe some people love the unrelenting angst and pain, but I don't.

Look at Captain Mar-Vell: if you read a synopsis of the character over the past 40 years, including the other Captain Marvels, it reads like most of the character histories since the '90s. The changes in Cap during the last few issues of his comic were confusing at best... and now there are a lot of "Captain Marvel"s out there, changing from issue to issue trying to find a formula, make a connection with a group, tap in to a feeling, all in the pursuit of sales.  Sales is what it is all about, but obviously what they are doing is not working... so they do it again... and again... and...

No one seems to have learned the lesson of The Scarlet Spider/Spider-Man Ben.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3498 on: November 23, 2017, 06:12:27 PM »
Constantly reinventing characters without letting the new direction stick will pretty much kill them.Captain Britain shows up every 5 years or so,for example.
Also,constant reboots will drive away even the most hardcore fans.Case in point;Legion of Superheroes.
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Offline daglob

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3499 on: November 23, 2017, 07:29:47 PM »
I have seen  creators complaining that if the readers had just given them a little more time they would have seen what they were trying to do (the readers didn't understand us, the readers didn't get us, the readers have no patience, it's all the reader's fault they don't see that this is pure genius). How many issues did they get? How long before the lack of sales caused the powers that be to pull the plug?

Look at mini-series. A good mini tells it's story in four, maybe six issues. But you have to make the readers come back each issue to see what happens, and the last issue has to have a "pay off" that makes the other books worth having read. They talk about "story arcs", which can be considered mini series within the regular series. You have to treat them almost like a novel, with a beginning, a middle, and an end, even if that end is just a pause before the next arc, or it is part of a series of interwoven arcs. Sometimes it reads more like mental... lets call it self abuse. It might be fun for the writer and artist, but not anyone else. I quit reading The Maxx and  Shi because it got to where it was like the writers were talking to themselves.

I dunno, but I'm pretty sure I care more for Marvel's character than most of the writers and artists do.

(Lots of ranting excised)

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3500 on: November 23, 2017, 07:54:50 PM »
Which is expected when you recruit people who never had any contact with comics.Alonso being a good example;he was a newspaper editor who landed a job at Vertigo in its twilight days,then went to Marvel and got to be EiC.
Im not saying they should just hire fans (after all,owning shoes doesnt make you a cobbler),but recruiting journalists seems like a wrong approach.
Anyway,I dont believe a new editor will change much.At this point,the damage is done.
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Offline detourne_me

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3501 on: November 24, 2017, 12:27:34 AM »
Its really sad, actually. On this forum you've got some of the most dedicated fans out there. We've been reading comics for decades, and supporting a game for nearly 2 decades with new content from all of our favorite comics. We talk glowingly about the movies and TV shows but no one has a good word to say about the current state of their comics...

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3502 on: November 24, 2017, 04:16:35 AM »
Well, it's good that Bendis is gone...does that count?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 04:18:53 AM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3503 on: November 24, 2017, 06:30:29 PM »
As mentioned earlier in the thread,they never managed to capitalise on the succes of the movies.
And apparently schwama sales skyrocketed after it was mentioned in the Avengers,so that should put things in perspective.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3504 on: November 26, 2017, 01:38:43 PM »
Its really sad, actually. On this forum you've got some of the most dedicated fans out there. We've been reading comics for decades, and supporting a game for nearly 2 decades with new content from all of our favorite comics. We talk glowingly about the movies and TV shows but no one has a good word to say about the current state of their comics...

Indeed, we have passionate fans here.

Well, if nothing else, I'm still enjoying a handful of books. At the moment I'm struggling to finish this week's comics, but I can say from what I read of Spider-Man/Vs. Deadpool (the second issue of the new run) I'm enjoying the run. It had some good DP quips, such as him making fun of editorial boxes.

I'm not nearly as harsh about the last few decades of Marvel and DC (though there are certainly stories I do dislike and have talked at length about here); a big part of that might be I wasn't around for those older stories the first time.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2018, 05:40:36 PM by Silver Shocker »
"If you put out a story that needs supplementary reading in order for it to be coherent, then's it's a BAD story! If you thought it was that important, you shoulda put it in the actual damn comic!"
~Linkara, Atop the Fourth Wall Final Crisis review

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3505 on: December 02, 2017, 06:27:47 PM »
World War Hulk 2.Nice to know Alonso is still with us in spirit.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3506 on: December 20, 2017, 05:19:40 AM »
Good news,everyone.Dan Slott is doing his final arc of Spiderman.
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Offline detourne_me

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3507 on: December 22, 2017, 04:26:10 PM »
I actually bought a new Marvel comic this week! :thumbup: Ed Piskor's Xmen: Grand Design #1 was everything I'd hoped it would be and more...  now only need to wait a year for #2.

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3508 on: December 24, 2017, 09:40:25 AM »
Good news,everyone.Dan Slott is doing his final arc of Spiderman.



It's about damn time.

[EDIT In the event that my image hosting provider is being an enormous arse (as is the case at the time of this writing) and in the event it wasn't clear what I'm referencing, it's a picture of Hope Van Dyne from the end of the Ant-Man movie. On the plus side, YAY, cute cat photo and my current profile pic is now a cat without me having to do anything!]

I look forward to seeing who the new writer will be. Depending on the creative team and story direction I may be picking up Amazing for the first time in about 2-3 years. I'm still going to read the rest of Slott's run at some point, since He started Renew Your Vows and I mean to read that, and because he's doing a nifty crossover with Venom right now which I definitely want to read at some point in the future.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 09:49:44 AM by Silver Shocker »
"If you put out a story that needs supplementary reading in order for it to be coherent, then's it's a BAD story! If you thought it was that important, you shoulda put it in the actual damn comic!"
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3509 on: December 24, 2017, 01:39:12 PM »
Also,around 7 titles got canceled.Ok,seriously,guess which ones? 😀
And Jim Starlin quits Marvel.Over a feud with Tom Brevoort.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer