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Author Topic: The Marvel Thread  (Read 206304 times)

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3630 on: December 20, 2018, 05:37:04 AM »
Man, it sounds like the Thing has really burned some bridges over at Marvel....
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3631 on: December 20, 2018, 08:15:26 AM »
Yes,because thats tottaly not all they are doing.Oh wait,it is.

That's not what I meant about going there.
You meant we are not allowed to say that for a while now,personal politics have been put before entertaiment?That Marvel fires people for calling Hitler an SJW (which part were they bothered with?)?That they alianated most of their fans?That most of their employees are on twitter 24/7 telling you they dont need your money?Did you mean we are not allowed to say any of that or was this just another "your racist/sexist/something for not liking x" kind of thing?
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3632 on: December 22, 2018, 05:55:08 AM »
Oookay.  I think you're being overly sensitive, HT.

Let's keep it friendly here.  Give each other the benefit of the doubt, and don't assume other folks have negative motives for their posts.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3633 on: December 22, 2018, 09:33:54 PM »
Based on my previous experiences where its always the same people going : "Your not allowed to say that" and "My opinion is a fact" Im not that quick to believe they have good intentions.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3634 on: December 24, 2018, 10:08:00 AM »
So I'm busy with some other stuff but I want to pop in real quick, since I've missed some debates here on the board before and I want to say my peace.

Benton, with all due respect, there is truth to what Spade/HT is saying, even if his lack of tact brushes up against people. I do notice some patterns he points out, and him and I have become good friends because we've managed to discuss things without arguing about really anything. You and I also discussed similar territory when that Spider-Man movie came out about two years back or so.

Making vague comments like what he's responded to don't help but it does tend in result in trying to figure out what the intent is, but even if it was intended to be obvious, it's not a very nice look. I've noticed this in an earlier thread or two. No voice equals no tone of voice ect.

But once again we're brushing up against the issue the comic industry laid out for us. All the little political digs aren't just stuff in interviews, message boards and twitter. These are things that are in the books themselves. We've discussed this before with, for example, Preist's topical/politically charged recent Justice League arc. The new season of Daredevil on Netflix had some political digs in it as well. I recall reading that an issue of, the new Marvel Two-In-One, I believe it was, had a little political joke from Spidey that was edited out before release, because while it's a joke someone might realistically make, it was unnecessary to the story and people would dwell on it instead of what the story's actually about.

When you have, say, the female Thor vs Absorbing Man fight from Thor (2014) #5 (not going to link to it, quote it, or describe it here, because it's not appropriate for this board, despite being in a non-mature rated book) How does one discuss that scene, and criticize it if you don't like it (I don't like it) without actually describing it? That's on the writer, they chose to put that in the book. And if they chose to put it in the book (or movie, or show, or game...) it should be fair game for criticism. Problem is actually discussing it gets you in hot water.

I'm not going to comment on that negative motives/good intentions part because that's not appropriate for the board IMO, and it's been addressed well by other people.

Hopefully I haven't ruffled any feathers, or at least too much, but I wanted to get my 2 cents in.

[EDIT]

As for your other comment Benton, I haven't heard anything about the Thing in Marvel's comics right now, other than he's apparently marrying Alicia Masters, so I'm actually not sure what you're referencing. Haven't really been paying much attention to the current FF comics. I have however, been discovering quite a bit of the Lee/Kirby stuff for the first time because of Marvel's $1 reprints.

[Edit]

OOh, I totally missed this comment:

Quote
Im guessing these are new versions of Darkhawk and Sleepwalker?And they will go on to join the Champions...er,Secret Defenders?

Actually no! They're the originals, Chris Powell aka Darkhawk (brought back as part of Gerry Duggan's attempt to bring back as much stuff from the DNA Cosmic books as possible) and the original Sleepwalker with his human host Rick Sheridan. The Sleepwalker story, while technically a light continuation of the Darkhawk mini, was overall pretty dopey even as part of Infinity Warps . It included an Ant-Man/Hulk hybrid that was basically an Ant-Man sized Hulk, and a Rick Sheridan fusion with Nick Fury of all people, seemingly so they can A. Use Nick to form the Secret Defenders instead of Dr. Strange like it was back in the 90s, and B. Give him the So-Bad-It's-Good name "Rick Fury". I assumed they were inspired by "Ric Grayson" over at DC.

Silhouette from New Warriors was teased as a potential member of the team. She made an Early Bird Cameo at the beginning of the first issue, where she name dropped....sigh, "Hummingbird" aka Aracally from Yost's Scarlet Spider and New Warriors. Wolverine also will apparently be a member, as in Wolverine with his yellow-and-blue costume Wolverine, or at least some version of Wolverine. Umm, I think they forget to check the current status quo of Logan.

The nice thing about miniseries like this is you don't need to worry about whether it can sustain an ongoing. Quicksilver didn't need to be an ongoing after Avengers: No Surrender, and that string of minis following the cancellation of Sean McKeever's Young Allies didn't need to be ongoings. I miss those characters, and the Young Avengers. Seems like such a long time ago.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 07:11:22 AM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3635 on: December 24, 2018, 04:45:36 PM »
In all of this,I forgot What I was going to say about Asm #12...
Or X-men fighting the Russian Collusion,or Captain America defending Antifa from red-hat-wearing Hydra supporters,or Angela,or Storm trying to secede Harlem...I could go on,but you get the general idea.And no,Im not kidding or abridging anything,all of those things happened exactly as described.And we have every right to make fun of them.
Oh yeah,I think YA came up before...I liked that series that wasnt writen by Gillen.Thats a recurring theme.
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Offline kkhohoho

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3636 on: December 25, 2018, 04:33:47 AM »
So are we saying that comics, hell, any piece of media can't have something to say about politics? That they aren't allowed to make a point? Is that seriously what everyone's trying to say here?
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3637 on: December 25, 2018, 05:27:19 AM »
Oh for the love of...
You know,Marvel provided the answer last week.They reprinted Stans editorial where he says Marvel first priority is to ENTERTAIN.Well,not this Marvel,their first priority is to preach,Brian Griffin style.Thou,Brian gets called out on his hipocrisy once in a while,but we are not allowed to criticise Marvel,apparently.
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Offline kkhohoho

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3638 on: December 25, 2018, 06:07:08 AM »
And is there nothing saying you can't make a point while also being entertaining? Don't get me wrong, I know this can easily go horribly wrong and you can wind up with BS like Captain Hydra. But as long as you don't overdo it, there's nothing wrong with making a point. Especially if it involves sticking it to the Orange.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3639 on: December 25, 2018, 02:29:38 PM »
this can easily go horribly wrong and you can wind up with BS...
You answered your own question there.
If they want to do this BS,they can do their BS.But we have every right to comment on it.Or as Linkara once said: I will stop making fun of them once they stop doing stupid things.
Or another example,some 10 years ago,a right leaning writer was writing a team book for DC.And he sometimes used a revived 90's parody as his mouthpiece.And that guy from Kingdom Come had things to say about gun control.It was a bit cringy and people called him out on that.A bit different group of people piled up on the same writer because his Vertigo comic was pro-Israel.Which was a real streached theory IMO,but people complained.
BUT now,we are not allowed to mention anything about the preaching going on in Marvel comics.Hypocrisy?
But hey,if you like tha direction,cool,buy the books.But dont call people racist/sexist for not buying them.And dont dox them if they make fun of them on Youtube.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2018, 02:52:21 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline kkhohoho

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3640 on: December 25, 2018, 03:01:33 PM »
this can easily go horribly wrong and you can wind up with BS...
You answered your own question there.
If they want to do this BS,they can do their BS.But we have every right to comment on it.Or as Linkara once said: I will stop making fun of them once they stop doing stupid things.
Or another example,some 10 years ago,a right leaning writer was writing a team book for DC.And he sometimes used a revived 90's parody as his mouthpiece.And that guy from Kingdom Come had things to say about gun control.It was a bit cringy and people called him out on that.A bit different group of people piled up on the same writer because his Vertigo comic was pro-Israel.Which was a real streached theory IMO,but people complained.
BUT now,we are not allowed to mention anything about the preaching going on in Marvel comics.Hypocrisy?
But hey,if you like tha direction,cool,buy the books.But dont call people racist/sexist for not buying them.And dont dox them if they make fun of them on Youtube.

The heck? That's not what I'm saying. At all. If someone's trying to make a point but that point is frigging stupid, then by all means they should be lambasted for it. But if they actually have a good point to make, then they should be allowed to make it. Or are you saying no-one should be allowed to make a point even if it's a good one?
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3641 on: December 25, 2018, 03:16:10 PM »
*pops in wearing a boxing refs outfit*
Alright, I want a fair fight here. No biting, no hitting below the belt, and please no ballroom dancing. Now go to each other's corner and when the bell rings come out swinging those carp!
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3642 on: December 25, 2018, 04:11:51 PM »
this can easily go horribly wrong and you can wind up with BS...
You answered your own question there.
If they want to do this BS,they can do their BS.But we have every right to comment on it.Or as Linkara once said: I will stop making fun of them once they stop doing stupid things.
Or another example,some 10 years ago,a right leaning writer was writing a team book for DC.And he sometimes used a revived 90's parody as his mouthpiece.And that guy from Kingdom Come had things to say about gun control.It was a bit cringy and people called him out on that.A bit different group of people piled up on the same writer because his Vertigo comic was pro-Israel.Which was a real streached theory IMO,but people complained.
BUT now,we are not allowed to mention anything about the preaching going on in Marvel comics.Hypocrisy?
But hey,if you like tha direction,cool,buy the books.But dont call people racist/sexist for not buying them.And dont dox them if they make fun of them on Youtube.

The heck? That's not what I'm saying. At all. If someone's trying to make a point but that point is frigging stupid, then by all means they should be lambasted for it. But if they actually have a good point to make, then they should be allowed to make it. Or are you saying no-one should be allowed to make a point even if it's a good one?
And who decides what a good point and whats a stupid one?
Captain America fighting red hat wearing Hydra supporters,for example,is that a good point?What if think its a cheap jab at people the creative team didnt like?
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3643 on: December 25, 2018, 04:57:00 PM »
*pops up wearing a hockey refs outfit*

That's two minutes in the penalty box for roughing on #14 on the Kkhohoho team and #23 on the Trotter team. Don't make this into a game misconduct...or something I can't do...
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3644 on: December 27, 2018, 02:59:07 PM »
X-Force #1 There is some potential here,but its pretty amateurish.The story is all over the place and trying to do too much.And the art is inexperienced while trying to imitate Ottley.At least I think thats who they were trying to imitate.
Its raw.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3645 on: December 27, 2018, 06:48:42 PM »
So hey I'm back.

*looks above my own post*

So yeah that was a thing. I've got nothing. I missed breakfast and lunch, haven't eaten anything except Christmas snacks and I need a nap. I got nothing.

Anyway:

Amazing Spider-Man #12: Whether or not Spencer did Chip's J.Jonah Jameson justice (I do think he backslid a bit) takes a backseat as we get Spidey/JJ. Buddy Cop comedy, Arcade deathtraps (notice Arcade's big role in Avengers Arena might as well have never happened? I mean, if the rest of Marvel wants to pretend that book didn't happen, I suppose I can, but you know, I really did like Deathlocket before she turned mopey. Heck, put her in Champions!) and the reveal of the mystery villain of this arc (no, not that one, a different one. Yes Spencer had two mystery villains at the same time):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote
while trying to imitate Ottley

While acknowledging that there are many out there who would disagree with me....why would anyone WANT to imitate Ottley?

Who draws comic art and goes "You know what my art needs? More arkward, bad-looking angular jaws, knees the shape of bricks and beady little black eyes".

Quote
You know,Marvel provided the answer last week.They reprinted Stans editorial where he says Marvel first priority is to ENTERTAIN

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That was actually a really cool thing they did. I thought it was a nifty time capsule that was a good example of how things were different from the way Marvel interacts with its audience these days.

Quote
Oh yeah,I think YA came up before...I liked that series that wasnt writen by Gillen.Thats a recurring theme.

I'm sure I've said it before, but Kieron Gillen's Young Avengers run was very much just his book Phonogram with the Young Avengers in it and slightly more coherent. Same artist too.

In fairness, Gillen's Uncanny X-Men run was almost good. I still really liked Unit as a villain.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2018, 06:53:20 PM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3646 on: December 27, 2018, 07:43:36 PM »
To Silver Shocker:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also, Deathlocket can't be in the Champions, see turned into a villain at the end of Avengers Arena and joined Zemo's Masters of Evil group...
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3647 on: December 27, 2018, 08:05:46 PM »
Ottley might just be the closest comparison,its an odd halfbaked noodle-person clay faces artstyle.

Marvels bill of reader rights,just for a then and now comparison.We can still call the editors  by their first names and talk about comics in public.Anything else?
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3648 on: December 28, 2018, 01:36:48 AM »
To Silver Shocker:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Quote
Also, Deathlocket can't be in the Champions, see turned into a villain at the end of Avengers Arena and joined Zemo's Masters of Evil group...

Yeah, I read that one too, Avengers Undercover. But they can change her back into a hero if they want. Hawkeye, Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver all had a face turn, as did Rogue. So did Zemo for a while, and all of the Thunderbolts. And while she did join some villains, she didn't actually carry out her assignment (which was to kill Captain America) The one who did got shot, Chase from Runaways, didn't die, so I feel she wasn't made irredeemable. As I said in this thread at least a year ago, I'd be perfectly happy to ignore the events of Undercover in a a future story (again, they ignored Arena and Undercover for future Arcade appearances, including the one in this arc of Spider-Man) and just have Death Locket appear again as a young hero. To my knowledge, and according to the Marvel Wiki, she hasn't actually appeared again outside out of a one-panel cameo in an issue of S.H.I.E.L.D when talking about all the different versions of Deathlocke.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2018, 03:03:40 AM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3649 on: December 28, 2018, 02:12:40 AM »
Guh...my Marvel fu is getting all screwed up by working on Benton's DC characters. Hmm...didn't know the villian and Jonah were in the same room...and is "gunning" for JJ. Hmm...I have an idea who it might be then...
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3650 on: January 04, 2019, 07:25:49 AM »
Conan #1 was actually good.I honestly didnt expect that.
Im dreding the next 2 or 3 issues.

On an unrelated note,why didnt any of the recent hip young team books use Jolt?Probably best they didnt,but they could have.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 07:29:20 AM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3651 on: January 07, 2019, 12:55:14 PM »
We are now getting Old Man Quill.Seriously,Marvel...
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3652 on: January 07, 2019, 11:40:56 PM »
The comics industry, Marvel in particular, mirror the video game industry a lot in their obsession with chasing trends and jumping on bandwagon. Peter Quill sounds especially not-fun. Considering how beat down and miserable Old Man Logan was, I shudder to think what the emotionally stunted man-child that is Peter Quill will be like as a run-down, miserable old man. (and keep in mind, I love Star-Lord when he's written well; when he's not, as seen in Guardians of the Galaxy cartoon, he's insufferably whiny)

Come to think of it though, between Marvel and Star Wars, Disney/Marvel sure likes to turn our childhood heroes into miserable, aging failures, don't they? 
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3653 on: January 08, 2019, 07:22:43 AM »
In regards to recycling one complete series,comic industry is pretty unique.
Can expect Old Man Deadpool or Old Man Black Panther soon?
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Offline daglob

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3654 on: January 08, 2019, 04:04:24 PM »
"Old Man Thor... AT The End of Time."

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3655 on: January 08, 2019, 04:06:08 PM »
"Old Man Thor... AT The End of Time."

I think Jason Aaron did that already.
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3656 on: January 08, 2019, 04:29:57 PM »
Old Man Willie Lumpkin...When the Mail Must Be Delivered?
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3657 on: January 08, 2019, 07:24:51 PM »
I can see an Old Man Tony movie happening in a few years as a farewell to the character.Or at least thats how I would play it.
What I wouldnt do is have Old Man Hawkeye brutally murdering other Thunderbolts,but I guess thats why I dont write for Marvel.That and I dont have a blue checkmark on my twitter profile.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 07:36:51 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3658 on: January 12, 2019, 03:04:55 AM »
Time for a Marvel comics roundup:

Champions #1:

This is one of those issues that's basically just setup until you get to the final page that's the premise of the actual opening story (see also, the new Shazam #1):

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man #1:

Same thing, only there's a hook at the end of the main story, and then at the end of a backup story; the latter is the more interesting:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Avengers #12:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 07:50:49 AM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline Merchant

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Re: The Marvel Thread
« Reply #3659 on: February 03, 2019, 05:18:25 AM »
I have not bought comics in years but now and then read up on some goings on.

I gladly enjoy not reading today. I loved comics back in the 80s and 90s before life changed and I had to stop.

Some of the stuff going on today, I would not waste time or money on.