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The Marvel Thread

Started by Previsionary, December 24, 2008, 11:48:35 PM

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murs47

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=23842
New series in 2010 called Shield. Seems like it'll be a more expansive Marvels Project, which has been pure gold so far.


Previsionary

Uncanny #517 (3):

After a very long hiatus, I decided to give this book another chance to see how well Fraction could do with his own plots. This issue is part of the 8 issue long Nation X plot. Did I change my mind about Fraction writing the X-men? Well...

Spoiler
The story for this issue is simple and very one note. Modified Predator Xs have attacked Utopia and the X-men need to defeat them before they are eaten.  This battle lasts all issues and a good deal of the X-men get some screen time including Storm, Iceman, Colossus, and Rogue. Surprisingly, Emma and Wolverine didn't get many, if any, action scenes this go round. Although I still don't think Fraction has a good handle on Storm and her dialogue, I really do have to give the man props for using Rogue as a mutant powerhouse similar to how she was used during X-treme when she could channel the powers she absorbed. It was a pretty impressive scene, though I'm aware that he was really pushing it. Yes, I'm avoiding questioning his thinking process for that scene because I find it nice to see Rogue active in battle again. Another thing I have to praise Fraction on is his use of the cuckoos. Why, you ask? For the first time in several years, someone remembered that they had phoenix segments lodged in their crystal hearts, and Fraction released them in this very issue. Is Jean closer to being back now that she's collected five phoenix fragments and will it tie into Messiah Complex pt 3? We'll have to see. All I can say for certain is that I think Fraction is finally moving on the right path despite a few flubs he had in this issue, which mostly revolved around his dialogue choices for several characters.

As for the art, it's Land. You either love it, hate it, or are indifferent to it. Nothing really distracted me this issue about it, but I did detect traces of copy and pasting jobs and maybe some tracing, but eh... everyone should know where they stand when it comes to his art by now. I rate this issue... a 3. I know, surprised me too, but when I compare it to the last book I read (Psylocke's return storyline), this was definitely better. However, I do feel the need to bring this up: what was the point of bringing Dazzler and Northstar into this book if they BARELY do anything... ever? Weakened Magneto, fine... old X-men characters that just fill up backgrounds and say cheesy dialogue from time to time, I can do without.

AA, this is where you come in and tell me how on or off the mark I am. :P
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AfghanAnt

No, your review seems dead on. I really couldn't stand how almost everybody's hair had a wind machine on it and why was Psylocke on the cover if she isn't in the comic? Oddly enough, I thought this is ok but why did nothing these characters say ring true to who they are (especially Magneto)?

I did like the Rogue bit with the NXMers. It reminded me of all the things I liked about Rogue when she as she appeared in the first 12 issues of Xtreme X-Men.

One more thing, where are they getting their food?

Previsionary

I don't think they eat. :P.

If I were to begin questioning things in Fraction's Uncanny, I can only imagine myself hating the book more than I originally did.  I mean, I did completely skip over Cyclops' comment about "needing Emma (as the lead psychic)" since the cuckoos were KOed when Xavier and Psylocke (shouldn't she and Wolvie be in Japan?) are on the island with him. Also, I completely ignored the fact that Fraction FORGOT he already had Storm on utopia for an X-meeting... I just assumed she tornado-ported back to Wakanda and then came back for an "epic/corny" entrance like her moment in Astonishing. And I completely ignored that Fraction had Xavier be a whipping dog and take Magneto's position in a fight they already had in Carey's X-men Legacy when Xavier was captured by Exodus. So, I think it was very easy for me to ignore that they don't have food, but I just assume they teleport back into their old base to get what they need for now like they did in Agents of Atlas vs. X-men #1-2.

Obviously, Fraction's run leaves a lot up to the imagination because such frivolous details are just... unnecessary to whatever Nation X seems to be about (I actually don't know what this storyline is supposed to be about because there doesn't seem to be a major thread running through the issues. Just a bunch of small plots under a banner.).

Wow... everything is right in the world again. ^^.
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Podmark

Quote from: AfghanAnt on November 26, 2009, 08:36:37 AM
One more thing, where are they getting their food?

I think they convinced the Mayor to ship them stuff. Iceman and Storm are handling water.
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murs47

I don't how I felt about Uncanny. The action was good, but the dialogue was just so darn poor. I think I'm just reading this to see what's up with Magneto in all honesty. But we'll see how long that lasts, I'm not liking Fraction's portrayal of him.

Reading this back to back with Iron Man baffles me. Same writer, but world's apart in terms of quality. I don't get it.

AfghanAnt

#606
Quote from: murs47 on November 26, 2009, 05:52:46 PM
I don't how I felt about Uncanny. The action was good, but the dialogue was just so darn poor. I think I'm just reading this to see what's up with Magneto in all honesty. But we'll see how long that lasts, I'm not liking Fraction's portrayal of him.

Reading this back to back with Iron Man baffles me. Same writer, but world's apart in terms of quality. I don't get it.

Those are seriously my major complaints with Fraction - why is Iron Man winning awards and simply amazingly thoughtful and X-Men is incredibly (or uncannily) phoned in.

Also I completely forgot Prof X was on the isle. What the frell is Cyclops talking about with Emma when Prof X has been stated time and time again as the world's most powerful telepath? Thank you Prev for helping me realized I need to stop wasting my money on this series and start buying Secret Warriors more religiously.

Zippo

My guess is that, as they usually come out in the same week, Fraction spends most of his time writing Iron Man, then churns out a script for Uncanny in a single afternoon.

After reading this weeks issues of each series back to back, I have to agree that it's almost unbelievable that they're written by the same person.

Podmark

It might be that Fraction is more in his element writing Iron Man, or that he's trying (and failing?) to do something different with Uncanny. I don't know I don't buy any Fraction books regularly.

I've read the Order after it was done, it was pretty good; a Young Avengers issue by Fraction which was also good; Uncanny X-Men 500 - probably the worst comic I've ever read; Utopia, the List, and the first issue of Nation X - all of which I liked to varying degrees. Planning to pick up more of the new Uncanny issues next time my shop has a sale. I'm very interested in the current X-direction.
I might have to try his Iron Man one day.
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Previsionary

#609
To be fair, X-men 500 wasn't just Fraction's fault. That fell both on Brubaker and Fraction since they both wrote that issue. If I remember the script correctly though, I think Fraction wrote a bit more of it than Brubaker did.

All the issues that you liked, Pod, are the ones I found low to mediocre for different reasons. Out of all of those, I think I liked "The List" the most despite how Fraction wrote Iceman ('can't freeze water without a [weak] psychic named Psylocke'), Namor ('I have no issues killing my [should be still] dead wife and ripping off her head, despite having strong feelings for her), and his constant need to promote his brand of "witty" and "nerdism." Also, I can really do without him constantly ripping on Alpha Flight. Having Cyclops comment on them like he did to Northstar was pretty low. It's not like the majority of that team didn't die in an explosion a year ago marvel time... oh wait! ^_^

But yeah, as I said in the past about both Fraction and Brubaker, team books of the X-men nature just don't seem to suit them. Fraction has the bigger issue of trying to use the whole cast, but only focusing on 5 big dogs the majority of the time while everyone else is repelled into the background. His use of Namor is really jarring to me because he only uses him as a tank that can barely handle his own. In fact, I've noticed that many fans want Namor out of the book, which I was kinda shocked by. I thought it'd be a good move to explore Namor more, but Fraction isn't providing that at the moment.

This leads to my bigger issue with him. Outside of his half thought-out plots, which usually involves some form of contradiction or omission, Fraction just doesn't have a handle on the majority of the characters he's working with. He doesn't really understand the basics of any character on his main "rotating" cast, so I know he doesn't really grasp the depth the majority of those characters have. It comes across very clearly in his writing, and especially in his interviews, that he just doesn't get them and is trying to make pieces fit to his writing as well as he can make them fit. Maybe he'll get better before his next X-event, but he has quite a long way to go, imo. So, in closing, Fraction's X-work (and Thor minis) is sub-par compared to his runs on Ironfist and Ironman.

Speaking of omissions, Pod, you read Utopia in full, no? Did Fraction ever explain what happened to Beast and how all his hair (and his claws) are back in such a short period of time? I thought that was one of the "big" points in that storyline, so I was hoping he eventually got around to explaining it.
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Podmark

#610
Yeah I liked the issues, but I never said they were prefect. Fraction really doesn't get the characters well at all. Nobody is really written that well. I find Mike Carey, and Yost and Kyle vastly superior with characterization than him.

I really like Namor being in the book, but it's all context - I think him being around while the X-Men setup their own island adds more legitimacy to the idea. I don't really have any problem with the way he writes Namor, but I'm hardly a die-hard Namor fan.

Yeah I read the whole Utopia story, and no he never properly explained the Omega Device in the book. The device allowed Michael Pointer to absorb the mutant energy of whoever was sitting in the chair, thus powering up Pointer and subduing the powers of whoever was in the chair and making them feel sick. That much you can tell in the book, but he explained the rest in an interview, the device's effects were just temporary so Beast's fur and claws just grew back in. If you need an explanation of how that happened so fast just remember that the X-Men have three or four healers right now.
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Deaths Jester

Quote from: Podmark on November 27, 2009, 07:13:09 PM
Yeah I liked the issues, but I never said they were prefect. Fraction really doesn't get the characters well at all. Nobody is really written that well. I find Mike Carey, and Yost and Kyle vastly superior with characterization than him.

I really like Namor being in the book, but it's all context - I think him being around while the X-Men setup their own island adds more legitimacy to the idea. I don't really have any problem with the way he writes Namor, but I'm hardly a die-hard Namor fan.

Yeah I read the whole Utopia story, and no he never properly explained the Omega Device in the book. The device allowed Michael Pointer to absorb the mutant energy of whoever was sitting in the chair, thus powering up Pointer and subduing the powers of whoever was in the chair and making them feel sick. That much you can tell in the book, but he explained the rest in an interview, the device's effects were just temporary so Beast's fur and claws just grew back in. If you need an explanation of how that happened so fast just remember that the X-Men have three or four healers right now.

Also wasn't it set up at some point in the way past...around the time that Logan had just been Apoclaypse's Death, that it was revealed that Beast had a healing factor as well and when they went to jail, his fur was removed by the dampening factor of the area but soon afterwards he grew it back.  Just thinking out loud.
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Previsionary

#612
Healing wouldn't actually affect the speed of hair growth that much, but this is comic book logic, so I'm not going to push it. Actually, I haven't seen any of the X-healers around lately. They always seem to be missing or KOed. But yes, DJ, Beast has a slight healing factor (though it was boosted at one time) that is rarely used or mentioned kinda like his pheromone ability. ^^. Actually, I wouldn't even call it that. It's more of a, "I heal faster than a typical human," type of thing similar to Spider-man at least in how it's been portrayed.

Incredible Herc #138 (3.5):

If you haven't been keeping up with Hercules, then you're missing out. This is the second part of the "Mount on Olympus" storyline that sees Hercules, Hebe, Cho, Athena, Kid-Zeus, New Avengers (Spider-woman I, Spider-man, and Wolverine), and the Mighty Avengers (USAgent, Pym, Jocasta, and Quicksilver) trying to fight off Hera and put an end to her Continuum plan, which basically involves the Gods reclaiming and recreating the Earth in their image. How well does the book work? Well, let's see:

Spoiler
This issue picks up immediately after last issue. There's no setup here, we hit the ground running. After Hercules and Spider-man's little spat over Hebe, the two find themselves working together, along with the other characters I mentioned earlier, preparing for a way to sneak into Hera's sanctum. With the help of Pym's newly created machine that he places on Hebe's head, the whole team is able to see the building's layout and try to figure out what is the best way to enter it. Hebe points out how impossible it'll be and how many defenses Hera has set up. This provides quite a character building scene where USAgent points out that the Gods are just fading beliefs people once had and he doesn't believe in them. Athena sees wisdom in these words, and Cho comes up with a plan to get the team inside. It involves Hebe, a hologram, and, if you know your classic literature, an updated version of the Trojan horse scene from the epic poem Aeneid.

This issue was easily a good 3.5. It had the humor, the character building, and the action that most of the Inc. Hercules issues contain, but it also continues to round out Amadeus Cho and makes Athena even more ambiguous in her morals. Is she a villain or a hero? Personally, I tend to think she's a chaotic neutral type character that likes to keep certain things in her favor. This storyline also has me very interested in what will happen between Amadeus and Herc (who seems to be back in love with Hebe, his wife). Oh, and for you Atlas fans, the team currently is in the Herc book as a backup. Considering Atlas is at the same place as Hercules, I can see them crossing paths sooner rather than later.
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Podmark

Quote from: Previsionary on November 28, 2009, 09:06:00 PM
Healing wouldn't actually affect the speed of hair growth that much


Elixir's ability isn't healing it's biological manipulation. He could restore Beast's hair, and for once Josh is actually conscious - well he was at the time.
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Previsionary

From the latest Uncanny preview: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vmizTggXAos/SxGKjHTwHmI/AAAAAAAABV4/d_55zt1tqoM/s1600/UXM518-03.png

Query, when exactly did Emma go from mid-level telepath with the ability to augment her powers with weapons she created to "omega" level? The X-men and their power levels are harder to keep track of than a pair of socks in a dryer... or something much more witty than that. Sorry, off day. :P
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Tomato

harder to keep track of then continuity in a Marvel or DC comic book?

Podmark

Quote from: Previsionary on December 02, 2009, 01:47:10 AM
From the latest Uncanny preview: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vmizTggXAos/SxGKjHTwHmI/AAAAAAAABV4/d_55zt1tqoM/s1600/UXM518-03.png

Query, when exactly did Emma go from mid-level telepath with the ability to augment her powers with weapons she created to "omega" level? The X-men and their power levels are harder to keep track of than a pair of socks in a dryer... or something much more witty than that. Sorry, off day. :P

Yeah this is bugging a lot of people from what I've seen, me included. I thought Phoenix Endsong went out of it's way to say Emma was not an Omega level?

Part of the problem is that there's never been a clear definition of what Omega class mutants are. I've always used the definition Nunzio DeFilippis and Christina Weir used when they classified Elixir  as an Omega. It was something to the extent that an Omega needed to have the potential to have complete control over whatever their power allows them to manipulate. Essentially an Omega at full potential should be able to do anything within the full context of their powers. But even that is kinda vague and could allow mutants to sneak in who don't belong.
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Previsionary

#617
Tis true, Omega class is very vague, but it was always my understanding that it wasn't a level of power you could grow into naturally. It was a level that you were inherently born with such as Iceman, Jean, and Xavier. It's a very exclusive class. The only other way to even reach that point is to have your powers augmented to that level via Cortez or Sage. But then again, the X-men around Emma are also being screwed with power wise (Psylocke, Iceman, Rogue), so maybe they're changing the rules albeit quietly?

I just thought that was a level of power writers were vehemently trying to avoid because of all the restrictions it presented. When Jean reached that level, they stopped using her and killed her off. When Psylocke reached that level under Claremont (recently), she started getting beat up all the time and could barely maintain her uber teke powers. If Emma really reaches that level, I can only imagine what'll happen to her when Fraction isn't controlling/writing her. Besides, the real charm of Emma wasn't how strong she was as a TPer, but how she managed to use her powers in unique and manipulative ways (I.E., an extension of her actual personality).
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Podmark

Yeah, Omega level is something you're born with. You don't randomly get upgraded to that level.

Also Xavier, to my knowledge, is not Omega level. The only ones I know of are Jean, Iceman, Elixir, Franklin, Mister M, Vulcan (though I personally dispute this one) and presumably Rachel, Cable and X-Man but I've never seen these three confirmed on panel myself.
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Previsionary

Interesting about Xavier. I always assumed he was because of his and others claims that he was "the strongest telepath in the world." And he kept that title even after Jean went Phoenix. Also, his powers came back and were greatly enhanced after he fell in the M'Kraan crystal, so if he wasn't before, he definitely should be one now. Actually, checking wiki, Fraction named him and Emma both Omega telepaths... so I'm now going to ignore it. :P
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Podmark

I'm not saying Xavier isn't for sure, but I've never heard him cited as one. And personally I don't think he qualifies. But I'm also not sure what a telepath needs to be able to do to qualify.

Jean and her offspring I think qualify based on the telepathy/telekinesis combo. If you've read Cable's fight against the Silver Surfer - that was what an Omega should be capable of. Destroying and immediately reassembling not just parts of a space station but the people inside it.
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murs47

I always figured a mutant designated as an omega class/threat was because they are capable of committing genocide.

Zippo

I'd heard it was any mutant capable of very precise and widespread matter, energy or reality manipulation. That's why Jean was Omega when she started being able to TK individual molecules, Iceman has the potential for thermodynamic and water manipulation, Elixir can control biological systems on a very precise level, Mister M, X-man/Cable, and Franklin Richards are pretty self explanatory.
People like Xavier, while very powerful, lacked the ability to manipulate matter or energy and were thus exempt from omega status.

Bah, it's too confusing.

detourne_me

You guys are forgetting about one of the most obvious examples,  Kid Omega - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quentin_Quire

but let's not even get into what the movie franchise declared to be omega level mutants :P

Previsionary

I tend to ignore Quentin because of his role in Endsong and because of his appearances and storylines that happened around a certain story that I hated in New X-men. :P But regardless, wasn't his power, too, jump-started thanks to the booster drug Kick? I don't know how natural his powers were because he overdosed on that stuff and burnt out. Then again, he was revealed to be a future host to the phoenix force as was Vulcan (in a non-canon "what if" where Quentin was also present). At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Quentin popped up again as a major threat sometime down the line. The mansion was destroyed and he was never recovered, right? Maybe then we'll get a clearer answer on him.

Anyway, new week, new comics. Anyone got any reviews (for those that got them today, of course).
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Silver Shocker

The only book I got this week was Nova.
Spoiler
After the apparent destruction of the planet Shard, Nova and Darkhawk find themselves in Egypt, where they encounter the Sphinx, an old Nova/New Warriors foe. He tells Nova that he must fight a contest of the gods, while Nova notes that he apparently can't detect Darkhawk's presents. Some strange enemies made out of sand, whom the Sphinx calls Djinns, show up, and Nova and Darkhawk fight them off. The Sphinx helps at first, then says that he's disappointed in Nova's performance and disappears. The Djinn's try to rip Darkhawk's amulet out of his armor, and when Nova tries to summon the Worldmind, he finds that he's cut off from it. He explains that without Worldmind to help him control his power, his powers are much more dangerous, and he destroys the enemies with a large blast.  After that Nova finds a past version of Reed Richards, who'd been whisked away to this time and place. After some exposition, they notice The Fault in the sky. Nova and Darkhawk try to fly towards it, but Nova hits some kind of invisible barrier and goes falling back to the surface. Darkhawk, still in the air, is then attacked by more Djinn. Nova wakes up in a tent, attended to by Richards. Walking out of the tent they discover Black Boltalso from the past, who brings with him a female body wrapped in bandages. After fighting a giant crocodile, Darkhawk returns saying that his claw drone (a device in his armor that turns into a bird) gathered some data on where they are. They discover that they aren't on Earth, but a magical construct made to resemble Egypt. Nova takes this time to unwrap the bandages from the woman who turns out to be Namorita, in her non-blue form.

This wasn't a super exciting issue, mainly because a large number of splash pages and large panels during action sequences made it a fairly short read. It would have been shorter had it not been for the amount of exposition in it. It was still a enjoyable read, and fairly fast pages, but I didn't find the guest stars, save for the one at the end, to be very interesting. In interviews DNA hyped up this storyline by saying it would feel a lot more like Nova's older adventures (pre-Annihilation) and seemed to imply that the New Warriors would be in it, so I do have hopes it will get more interesting as it moves along.  I found the art strong, but as I mentioned I find Divito rarely does a poor job. I especially liked the way he drew the Sphinx, particularly in the splash page where he shows up.
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Previsionary

Thanks for the review, SS! I'm very interested in the cosmic stories these days, so I hope all these stories play out fairly well while the Earth heroes go through event after event after event with no end in sight.

Meanwhile, Beast is gearing to leave Uncanny soon (next issue in fact), which brings me to this: http://freakangels.com/whitechapel/comments.php?DiscussionID=7178&page=19#Item_16

Matt Fraction explains what he meant by Omega Telepath and... it still makes no sense, but OK. Let's just roll with that. Also, apparently Brubaker also called Xavier an Omega in Deadly Genesis, which I don't remember at all. However, I am excited for Jubilee's possible return... SOMEWHERE. Haven't seen her since New Warriors ended. And I want classic, but mature, Jubilee... not the Wondra person she was forced to be. :P
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Podmark

Personally I wouldn't have a problem if Jubilee showed up with her Wondra tech (I assume she still has it - I didn't read the end of New Warriors). I like it when continuity is acknowledged.
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Previsionary

Eh, I meant more of her personality during New Warriors, not her costume. She wouldn't be nearly as useful without it, especially since most writers forget her none mutant skills.
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Podmark

Yeah, poor characterization is something I don't mind being ignored.

I kinda run a just the facts system. I like to think of comics continuity, when possible, as the characters' actual history. So stuff that happened did happen, unless proven otherwise.
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