The Marvel Thread

[Ares_God_of_War]

Spoiler

wow the coment made it seem like steve somehow beat the crap out of thor and was shaking over what he had done. now I am less intrigued

[Podmark]

I got it and I thought it was pretty good. It was surprisingly less talky than Bendis typically is which was a pleasant surprise.
Also the art was fantastic.

[Previsionary]

The art was good, but I found it blah (overall) myself. Also, Volstagg never appeared again after the beginning DESPITE the "heroes" that kicked off the whole thing, that no one seemed to recognized despite being the official team of that state, iirc, being there. Also, I wasn't fond of the Thor fight. He generally did nothing.

[tommyboy]

I'm sure that nobody would be surprised that I disliked "Siege" #1.

Spoiler

It's quibbling slightly to point out that as yet, the term "siege" does not apply. What we have is an attack or an assault, but definitely not a siege. I suppose that could change in coming issues, so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, even though they don't actually deserve it.
Next we have the "lets quickly kill 60,000 or so people so we can get this moving". At least "Civil war" had some token scenes of the aftermath and the effect of the tragedy on media coverage and people's opinions. In Siege we get "Boom! Attack Asgard!!". Leaving aside that neither Vector nor X-Ray actually have powers which can cause an explosion killing thousands, and that even if they did, neither could possibly survive such an explosion themselves, it's ludicrous, even by Bendis' standard.
The book manages to be overly talky AND feel like its rushed. Thor is a punching bag who manages to get in one blow before being taken down by by an explosion caused by people standing in the epicenter, all of whom, even DiamondBack, survive, but Thor doesn't. Then Osborne drops Thor with one punch. Cue full page Shakey-Fist Cap. Oooo! What will happen now!?!!1111
The art is OK I guess, a little sketchy and cartoon-y for my tastes, with people in medium shots missing facial features for no good reason, Asgard now looks like DoomStadt crossed with Disneyland Paris (but to be fair, that's how its looked in Thor's new book, so that's consistent with that book, and hey, what did Jack Kirby know about costume design or architectural grandeur anyway?).
In short, for a Big Crossover Universe Changing Event Book, it looks and reads as small and unimpressive.
Everything that happens, as nonsensical and rushed as it is, is just to tick off boxes. We need the US at war with Asgard, so Big Exploasion + Ineffectual President= War. Check. We need Thor out of the way, so lets have him beaten up by Diamondback and the Green Goblin. Check.
Truly, Bendis is the Liefeld of writing. Both have sold comics in vast quantities, so are judged by some as masters of the form. Both will be judged by history as very very lucky men indeed to have been able to parlay less than mediocre abilities into a fortune.

[GhostMachine]

tommyboy, Bendis is NOT the Liefeld of writing. That would be Jeph Loeb. Or maybe Chuck "has no sense of what continuity is" Austen.

I don't like Bendis mainly because his best talent is padding - being able to stretch something that could be done in one or two issues into a 4 to 6 parter. Other than that, he's a decent enough writer, but he's too wordy at times.

[murs47]

Spoiler

tommyboy, do yourself a favor and go read Bendis' run on Daredevil.

Anyways, I do agree with you on Siege a bit. The aftermath and response(other than Norman's) not being explored of Volstagg's mishap in Chicago bothered me a lot. It loses it's emotional impact because of that.

I think the reason why Thor was so easily beaten is because Mjolnir hasn't been fully restored yet.

Art was pretty good. Funniest cliffhanger ever. It was so corny I el-oh-el'd. I still be picking it up. Things should be getting a lot better.

[Previsionary]

On the Volstagg front, if you picked up "The Siege: Embedded," it turns out that Volstagg is just walking from Chicago back to Oklahoma and has now joined up with Ben Ulrich and some other journalist on said trip. Ironically, while Norman and his team are out fighting everyone on Asgard, the media/gov't/police just allowed Volstagg to wander from the event with no type of resistance as he tries to turn himself in for judgment. And since this is a big event, you know Ben will be the major character of this book as he once again tries to bring Norman down (and yes, Volstagg told Ben what happened from his POV).

The thing that really concerns me on The Siege front is how easily Norman manipulated and conned everyone into his plan. When you have EVERYONE working for you saying it's a bad idea and it takes less than a page to get them all on your side, it just says "rushed" to me. It really doesn't help that Norman's Dark Reign has done nothing for Norman's character except make him look incompetent, and it didn't help out or redefine Marvel's universe very much at all.

BTW, can anyone inform me as to why Volstagg was in Chicago anyway when he was last seen in town with Thor/Donald?

[tommyboy]

tommyboy, Bendis is NOT the Liefeld of writing. That would be Jeph Loeb. Or maybe Chuck "has no sense of what continuity is" Austen.

I don't like Bendis mainly because his best talent is padding - being able to stretch something that could be done in one or two issues into a 4 to 6 parter. Other than that, he's a decent enough writer, but he's too wordy at times.

Well, at the risk of beginning a slightly futile argument, I would support my contention and dispute yours as follows:
Chuck Austen has a sense of continuity. During his widely disliked run as Avengers writer, in issue 78 (#493 by the old numbering) he has the Wrecking Crew appear as villains. Thunderball, who has previously been shown to actually be an educated man, (from wikipedia:"Dr. Eliot Franklin was born in Buffalo, New York. He became a brilliant physicist and engineer whose greatest claim to fame was inventing a miniature gamma-ray bomb, something that Dr. Robert Bruce Banner (better known as The Hulk) was unable to do at that time. Dr. Franklin was often called "The Black Bruce Banner" because of his genius-level intellect and his scientific knowledge in the field of gamma radiation.") discusses literature and quotes Frederic Douglass:"Such a worthy woman of letters. It would be a shame to end the life of one so intelligent and well-read". His speech patterns, vocabulary and actions are those of an intelligent, albeit evil man. This is in keeping with previous continuity.
During Thunderball's appearances written by Bendis his dialogue is things like "Dizzy broad" (New Avengers #55), "What the ~@&??" (NA #56), etc in other words, Thunderball is written as if he were a big strong dumb guy. No continuity.
Jeph Loeb appears (to me) to be able to write more than one character, and to actually know the meaning of the words he uses. Bendis does not.
You may dislike their writing intensely, and be able to point to faults in their writing, but I would argue that both Loeb and Austen can spell, have a vocabulary of more than 200 words, understand what a story is, and can tell one.

Bendis, like Liefeld, is highly stylized. You can recognize his verbal tics as easily as Liefeld's missing feet and many many pouches. Like Liefeld he repeats the same few things over and over, and like Liefeld is an astute and rapacious self-publicist. Like Liefeld, Bendis is at the forefront of a "new" movement in mainstream comics and has successfully captured the imagination of a lot of buyers of comics. New Avengers is the X-force/Youngblood of its day, outselling all others, and feted by those for whom sales are the pinnacle of quality. It sells well, but is laughably bad, and is the sort of comic which makes me as an adult once again ashamed to admit to reading comics.

Now, however much one might wish to pursue the argument that there is no bad art or writing, (merely art or writing which is not to ones taste), an inability to master basic human anatomy IS bad art. An inability to write more than ones own voice IS bad writing.
Liefeld is a bad artist, Bendis is a bad writer. If they ever work on a comic together I suspect that would be a portent of the End Of Days, I'm pretty sure they specifically mention it in both Revelations, the writings of Nostrodamus and at the end of the Mayan calender. I would sooner gouge out my eyes than witness such a thing...
Err... I digress a little...
Aaaanyway, he IS the Liefeld of Writers, so there. Ten times anything you say, and no returns.


(And murs, I've read Bendis' Daredevil. It was boring, talky, repetitive, self indulgent and everyone spoke in the same voice. The attempts at legal drama were risible, even for superhero comics. You might as well have told me to do myself a favour and read X-Force for Liefeld's art.)

[Tomato]

Um... if I may interject here, I would say that Liefield, having written several horrible horrible comics, is in fact the Liefield of comics. Really Tommy, Whatever you feel about Bendis (which I am not unsympathetic too), at least he's better then Liefield. Give him that much, at least.

[tommyboy]

Um... if I may interject here, I would say that Liefield, having written several horrible horrible comics, is in fact the Liefield of comics. Really Tommy, Whatever you feel about Bendis (which I am not unsympathetic too), at least he's better then Liefield. Give him that much, at least.

Nope.
He writes as well as Liefeld draws. I never said he was the Liefeld of comics, but rather asserted that Bendis is the Liefeld of writing.
Of course Liefeld writes badly as well. And of course Bendis draws badly too. Neither writes nor draws well. One is known primarily as a bad artist, the other as a bad writer, both have sold so many comics that I despair.
And that's my annual Bendis rant over. See you next year everybody.

[thanoson]

Umm.... have you read Liefelds' writings? He IS the Liefeld of writing.

[edit] Ninja'd. Damn.

[murs47]

And that's my annual Bendis rant over. See you next year everybody.

I can't wait!

[Blkcasanova247]

Spoiler

tommyboy, do yourself a favor and go read Bendis' run on Daredevil.

And Ultimate Spider Man.

Aaaanyway, he IS the Liefeld of Writers, so there. Ten times anything you say, and no returns.


(And murs, I've read Bendis' Daredevil. It was boring, talky, repetitive, self indulgent and everyone spoke in the same voice. The attempts at legal drama were risible, even for superhero comics. You might as well have told me to do myself a favour and read X-Force for Liefeld's art.)

Eh...I'll disagree with ya there partner but...I whole-hearted respect your opinion. Wrong as you are.

[Podmark]

So Iron Man is getting a new armor soon:



It's alright but I thought the Granov armor was prefect. I'm really quite disappointed that they're moving on from it.
The shoulder separation on the new armor really bugs me.


On Bendis, he definitely has his weaknesses, but he's written stuff I've really liked, and of course stuff I didn't care for. I've enjoyed most of his Ultimate Spider-Man, but haven't really cared for much of his Avengers stuff.

[Blkcasanova247]

I like it...for the most part but I agree the separation bugs me. For the "gauntlets and boots" as well...it needs to be red in those sections. I also bugged by the "big toe" separation...Ninja Iron Man...that's all we need. I hope that this isn't the final version but the overall thought behind the design I dig.

[ghazkul]

I like the armour. At least it will be easier to skope then the last few have been. Actually I think I can hear Tommyboy screaming. It has a City Of Heroes feel for some reason.

[thalaw2]

I haven't been following much Iron Man....is the armor still bonded to him?  If so how can it change?

[Courtnall6]

Meh...it looks more like a tight bodysuit Tony would where under his armour...not as his actual armour.

I just feel sorry for the poor SOB who has to draw this design...page after page and panel after panel...for 20+ pages. Don't expect issues of Ironman to come out on a timely fashion anymore.

[Previsionary]

Gang, here are a couple of prevews/synopses that caught my attention... and not all of them for good reason:

Spoiler

Also, I'd like to point out the absurdity of how many Marvel events are going on right now.

1. The Siege
2. Realm of Kings (space)
3. Spider-man Gauntlet
4. Doom War
5. Attack on Olympus
6. Fall of Hulks
7. Nation X
8. Necrosha (which seems to have sped by in New Mutants... welcome back, Cypher)
9. Second Coming

Doesn't that seem like a little TOO much to be happening? Every book seems to be tied up in some event to the point of inanity. I disapprove. Also, can anyone let me know what's going on with Red Hulk and the She-Hulks? Will we now be getting 5 Hulk family on-goings (Incredible Hulk, Hulk, Red Hulk, The Savage She-hulks, Skaar) or what?

[tommyboy]

The mildly ironic bit about the new Iron man suit is the classic mk5 armour was streamlined till they added loads of shoulderpads and flashlights to it. This new one isn't terrible but isn't a great design either. Isn't there a principle that says you should be able to recognize a character in silhouette? And the colour scheme is indistinct and too fiddly. It looks like an MUA2 alternate costume. And unless its what hes wearing in Iron Man 2 the movie, wont it hurt sales a little, too?

[Zippo]

I quite like the new armour. I think Tony needs something like this, something a bit more futuristic-looking, a bit more streamlined, so that when he's back in action it's clear that Osborn is/was just a total poser and Stark is the real deal.

[BlueBard]

Is it just me, or is anyone else wondering how the torso of this new Iron Man armor is supposed to rotate at the waist like a human's would naturally?

The lines would suggest that it could not, unless that metal is flexible.  And if it was, why bother with joints at all?

If -I- were Iron Man, I'd be wanting armor that's MORE articulated, not less.

[Podmark]

I read this week's Spidey with the new Rhino. I really liked it, it's a great story for the original Rhino. I hadn't read much Joe Kelly before his Spidey tenure but I've really liked his stories.

[Previsionary]

Thanks for the short review, Pod. Rhino was in Web of Spidey recently as well, and I recall that to be an adequate tale as well.

As for my reads, I checked out X-nation #2. It was average. Art went from great to bleh the further I got into the book. The Jubilee tale didn't really amount to much, though she seems to have taken on her older style and for some reason, Surge has an issue with her. I'm sure I missed something. As for Northstar, his story had less to do with Utopia and more to do with him not operating correctly because he missed his boyfriend.

The other two stories weren't as memorable. One featured Quentine Quire as a super villain vs. Martha Johansson in a game of mind control, and the other one featured Gambit trying to come to terms with his darkside and the fact that Cyclops forgave him.

In other news, Marvels Project #4 is still going strong with this issue revolving around Angel/Thomas Holloway trying to tie up loose ends in his investigation, the official creation and first mission of Captain America, and Nick Fury's adventures in Germany against the Red Skull.

[AfghanAnt]

Thanks for the short review, Pod. Rhino was in Web of Spidey recently as well, and I recall that to be an adequate tale as well.

As for my reads, I checked out X-nation #2. It was average. Art went from great to bleh the further I got into the book. The Jubilee tale didn't really amount to much, though she seems to have taken on her older style and for some reason, Surge has an issue with her. I'm sure I missed something. As for Northstar, his story had less to do with Utopia and more to do with him not operating correctly because he missed his boyfriend.

The other two stories weren't as memorable. One featured Quentine Quire as a super villain vs. Martha Johansson in a game of mind control, and the other one featured Gambit trying to come to terms with his darkside and the fact that Cyclops forgave him.

I thought the Martha Johansson's tales was cute - especially since we never knew she had thoughts (well it was hinted from Ernst btw where is Ernst?).

The Jubilee tale was good until Nori went totally out of character - like totally. Hello David and Danni are still on the island and she is hating on Jubilee? Though upon reading it again (yeah I read comics twice) it seemed more of an Asian thing than a mutant thing (black folks will understand).

The Northstar story was cute but confusing. I thought the Black guy was trying to break up with Jean-Paul but it turns out he doesn't want to be around mutants who are always in danger (completely understandable) but I thought Jean-Paul was adorable in this tale. So gay, so lovable.

[Previsionary]

Heh, AA. I wish I could enjoy some of the stories like you did. I noted you ignored Gambit altogether. I... don't blame you. .

Jubilee:

My problem with her tale is that it didn't really develop anyone, so now I have to wait until March to see what Jubes and X-23 have in store. Lame. The Surge thing though... meh. I know she has her little moments where she'll just unjustifiably target someone, but she doesn't even know Jubilee. None of the kids actually know her... so that whole setup was weird to me. I know Jubilee was around the mansion once or twice when they were around, but for the majority of them to like her so much means they had more bonding time than any of us readers are aware of. I'd rather see Jubilee, Emma, and Monet interact again. Imagine the quips, tude, and attempts at being queen "B."

Sidenote: Surge needs to come off it. She's living on an island with "powerless" prostitutes for heaven's sake. And no, I'm not taking shots at Emma.

Martha:

I don't have a problem with this story, I just didn't find it as memorable. I mean, I suspected Quentin would return (I said it a few pages back), but I thought an actual story would be built around him instead of, "I'm back and wanna be bad despite my last few appearances showing me as remorseful and heading towards the good side." It just seemed like a major regression on his part. Also, I thought he and Martha were like best friends at one point? Maybe that's why he chose her, though the ending was kinda... eh? Martha didn't look to be in good shape.

-Sidenote, I found the caption style in that story odd. Martha's box was written in second person, so I was wondering if there was an unnamed narrator telling what she was essentially thinking/doing.

Northstar:

Let me start off with, how should I feel about this story portraying Blindfold about to shoot a basketball at someone lifting weights? My issue with this story, other than how badly Northstar and Jean Marie were written, is that it sent very confused messages.

Message 1: "It's OK to bring trouble to your friends (war wolves? they're relevant?) when you're missing your boyfriend, and then you can completely ignore them until said boyfriend leaves. While with your boyfriend, be so dominant that you don't hear a simple request repeated 3 or more times."

And I'm pretty sure arrogant Northstar can fight better than he was portrayed here, but I understand the "War Wolves" weren't the meat of the story.

Message 2: "Be happy to be with your boyfriend, but don't even attempt to be a part of his world. Seriously, outside of maybe a few hours stay, don't try again."

Maybe I'm misinterpreting the intended message, but Kyle was ready to go the second he and Northstar got out of bed. At that point, nothing bad had happened. I understand the need for normalcy, but Kyle/Jean Paul have been together for at least 2 months (dunno how long they were together when Kyle was introduced in Uncanny). Everything around them as a couple just falls flat to me because they have never been built up at all. As a light, fluff tale, I suppose it's fine, but the messages it unintentionally carries bring it down to me.

My ranking: Issue #1 > Martha > Jubilee > Northstar > .... > ... > Gambit.

[AfghanAnt]

I hated the Gambit story. The only thing I liked was the art.

[Previsionary]

So, how is Kitty coming back? You can thank Magneto for doing it as a trust building exercise! Because, obviously, he's been trying so hard to regain the X-men's trust (I think Fraction's overplaying his supposed "Magneto redemption" plot points.).

"The X-Men may not have reacted by thinking, 'He's here. Let's punch him!' But they still don't trust him. So I wanted to build that [trust] by having him give a gift to the X-Men, who are now his people, in the form of Kitty. It felt very right in this weird, full-circle way," Fraction continued. "It brought all these people back and made sense; especially with the way things are with the current 'Nation X' storyline and the emotional and character arcs we've been telling for the past eight months."

Before Fraction implemented his plan to bring Kitty back to the X-Men, he sought out feedback from a fellow creator. "I called Joss Whedon and ran it by him. I enjoyed and respected the job he and John did on 'Astonishing X-Men,' so his approval meant a lot to me. I felt like I was asking if it was okay if I dated his daughter," Fraction joked. "I wanted to make sure that the guy who wrote Kitty's exit approved, and when he said he liked what we wanted to do, it fired me up to do this crazy story."

Kitty's return comes at what seems like a busy time for the X-Men. "Uncanny" #522 is the final installment of the current "Nation X" arc, a story which has found the X-Men dealing with Magneto joining their ranks, the threat of a mysterious new set of enemies and the infrastructure problems stemming from the move to their new island home of Utopia. "Issues #520-521 are kind of the wrap up to 'Nation X,' and #522 serves almost as an epilogue or a coda. Everything but the X-Men and Magneto story is resolved by #522," Fraction explained. "In issues #520-521, the other storylines terminate and everything focuses down to just Magneto and Magneto's return. Magneto problematizes the question of what exactly Utopia is. As 'Nation X' progresses, Magneto will realize that it's going to require deeds, not words, from him. So he decides to present a gift to the X-Men."

[Podmark]

I hope this doesn't all end with Magneto having a secret plot and becoming a bad guy again. I like Magneto being a good guy.

The other interesting thing about the article is that it seems to confirm Fraction will be on Uncanny after Second Coming.

[lugaru]

I hope there is alwyas an X-Nation book keeping track of other x-characters, but I hope it improves soon.