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The Marvel Thread

Started by Previsionary, December 24, 2008, 11:48:35 PM

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HarryTrotter

This weeks quote from Stans soapbox is how they are always trying to entertain and not editorialize.As such they try to keep their personal opinions out of their sagas.
Marvel in 2019 is quoting this.Are they being sarcarstic or are they that funting self unaware?
You are editorializing and personal opinions far outweight the entertainment in your book.So dont spit in our faces and then try to hide behind Stan Lee.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

detourne_me

Has anyone else been reading the Age of X-Man stuff?
I loved AoA so much i thougut I'd try all of the first issues for this. NextGen and Marvelous X-Men were pretty good. While Nightcrawler was so-so and Xtremists was just garbage. I just read Prisoner X, and its interesting seeing Bishop be the one linked to the real world again. I'm looking forward to tye Apocalypse book, cause it seems interesting. It seems like the AoA analogues will carry over in terms of quality of the book too. Marvelous X-Men is like Astonishing X-Men, which was good. Both Generation Next and NextGen are really great, and X-Tremists is more like Factor X... weak.

Silver Shocker

Haven't read any new X-Men stuff in a long while. The last one I read was Soule's Astonishing X-Men. I thought that was decent. It seemed like it was doing a little cross-media synergy with the Legion Tv show and the newer movies.

There was an annual by a different writer that I didn't read, but it brought back the alien that called himself Luficer from the original Stan Lee run of X-Men. The one who was originally responsible for the loss of Xavier's ability to walk, before that got retconned. The character made very few appearances after that.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

kkhohoho

Haven't read any X-Men books since around 2014 or so. If they let mutants make some darn progress instead of facing extermination every other week, maybe I'll start picking them up again.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

Silver Shocker

#3664
As I've said before, I did a hard boybott on X-Men during the X-Men vs Inhuman business. Only Spider-Man/Deadpool was exempt from it. Mind you, the X-Men books weren't really putting out anything I wanted to pick up at the time anyway. Astonishing came out after IVX, so I picked that up, which I liked, but the later stuff has lost me.

And yes, I think X-Men especially has a problem we see a lot with Marvel and DC these days; they're doing status-quo shaking events too often to tell enjoyable stories with the status quo and characters they do have. Well, that and they keep going "Let's just kill off whoever editorial will let us kill, and let the readers look them up on the fan wiki" as a substitute for a good story.

Right now, I'd rather just read my Essential reprints I never got around to reading. Much more enjoyable, honestly. With those, even the stuff that's kinda bad is still good, because it becomes a charming element of the era the books came from. The modern comics really do not benefit from this factor.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Shaking up the status quo is only needed if you have a status quo.If you cant have 2 issues without tying into some event,then your events ARE the status quo.
Event-aftermath/prequel-Event+Spiderman crossover+X-men event-aftermath/prequel-Infinity something...
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Tomato

Just read Uncanny X-men 13...

Spoiler
Sorry Marvel, putting the X-men in "iconic" costumes isn't going to make me love them again. Also... I get they're supposed to be a bunch of random outfits Scott found in the basement... but MAN is that an eclectic selection. 80s Wolverine, 90s Cyclops, early 2000s Havok... Don't get me wrong, I love me some Brown Wolverine, but like... it's just a *bizarre* collection of outfits.

HarryTrotter

Not to hijack the movie thread- IIRC Wasp came up with the name Avengers because she thought it sounded hip.Was that ever retconed?Or any other explanation given?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

You are correct. That was in the very first issue of the Avengers. Was it ever further retconned or expanded in the comics? I don't recall. I'd guess if it was, the most likely place would be in those Joe Casey "Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes" miniseries that go back to the early days of the team (which also includes the mini "Hulk Smashes the Avengers") but I haven't read those yet. Maybe I'll have to give them a read sometime.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter


It still seems like thats the case.And you think Tony should remember,he was there.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#3670
Man, I read that when it came out, and didn't even remember.

Also, yeah, I enjoyed that run, but that's some bullcrap. Tony doesn't remember (or pretends not to, which is a d-bag move, even for post Downey Tony) And Ms. Marvel knows (how? Well, I guess that's less important than having her "Um, actually" a founding Avenger) and Tony basically bashes the Wasp behind her back? Are we sure Remender didn't write this?

Oh, on a not-particularly-related note, I'm reading some recent Marvel comics the other night, when I see an ad for a War of the Realms tie-in, and what do I see?

"War of the Realms: Journey into Mystery" featuring, among other characters, Death Lockett! So she does exist and somebody decided to use her? Coolio, Now if they could just do that for Gravity, the Eli Bradley Patriot, Wiccan, Hulkling, Speed, Cassie Lang, pretty much all of the Thunderbolts.... (oh right, just gotta wait for the movies to come out)

Also, I love how you can tell just from the cover that she's still "Angsty, unlikable" Death Lockett. I mean Arcade can make later appearances that don't reference or play off Avengers Arena/Undercover in any way, shape or form, but apparently the same does not apply to her...ok...
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

#3671
Because she a super special awesome fangirl?And Tony might have been drunk?
Wasp was only around for a month?Just the first team or do you count her entire tenure as an Avenger?She left and rejoined a few times,but its probably a bit more then a month?

Its funny that you can pick any page of any post-2015 Marvel comics and find at least 2 things that dont make sense.

Seems like the current batch of "writers" only knows about 3 villains:Doctor Doom,Taskmaster and Arcade.What is this opsession with Arcade?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#3672
QuoteSeems like the current batch of "writers" only knows about 3 villains:Doctor Doom,Taskmaster and Arcade.What is this opsession with Arcade?

So a recent issue of Avengers: No Road Home had a text page in the back where the various writers on the mini talked about what villains they enjoyed writing or just liked in general. It included a juggling-themed villain team, Loki and Doctor Doom. It was kinda neat and gave a pretty good insight into where their heads are at and what their preferences and sensibilities were. Like how Loki can work as both a good guy and a bad guy.

Waid talked about Doom, and talked about how flexible he is as a villain in terms of how "noble" he is. Which isn't surprising. Waid, in his FF run, did a Doom arc that started with what he called "deconstructing his nobility". It involved him finally getting his mother back with dark magic like he always wanted to and then immediately sacrificing her for more power.

Anyway:

Jonathan Hickman is going to be doing some X-Men.

I got nothing. I did read his Avengers a few years ago, but I never finished it. I had trouble latching on to his writing, so I don't know about this. If I look into it and something grabs me maybe I'll get into X-Men with it but I kinda doubt it. I've got at least 5 weeks of new comics to get caught up in right now as it is.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Silver Shocker

#3673
It's convention season so time for a comics roundup:

-Marvel's about to put out a Spider-Man mini where Spidey fights Mysterio, obviously because of the upcoming movie. It actually takes place during the original black suit saga, which, according to an interview I was looking at, never featured Spidey fighting Mysterio, so it's somewhat uncharted territory. The editor of the book insists it will fit into continuity.

The good news: it's written by Peter David. Yay! The bad news? It's "drawn" by Greg Land. Boo!

I'll give it a pass on first release. Might read it a lot more down the line.

-Marvel's doing a War of the Realms tie-in mini where Spidey leads a team of Asgardian-themed characters. Not all that appealing to me.

-A new Death's Head mini where he teams up with, of all people, Wiccan and Hulkling of the Young Avengers! I'm probably not going to pick it up on first release, but I'll keep an eye out for it, yeeesss.....

-At a C2E2 convention panel, C.B. Cebulski was asked about the Young Avengers, and he replied that It's definitely going to be a good time to be fans of the YA, "but I can't confirm or deny Allan Heinberg or Jim Cheung's involvement." Kinda weirdly specific there. I mean, it's not like they were the only creative teams that worked on the original YA. I mean, even if you discount the Gillen lineup there was Zeb Wells, Chris Yost, Brian Reed, Ed Brubaker, Paul Cornell...

-I can't remember if I mentioned this before but they're doing a War of the Realms: Giant-Man mini, which should really have been called "Giant-MEN" because there's four of them: Scott Lang/Ant-Man, the new Giant-Man that was introduced in Astonishing Ant-Man, Atlas from Thunderbolts and Black Goliath's nephew Tom Foster. They fight an army of frost giants led by Moonstone of all people. Mind you, Moonstone lost her Moonstone during the recent "Thor vs Hulk: Champions of the Universe" but this was ignored after as she was seen fighting Carol Danvers in a recent Captain Marvel comic. Oh well. I'll be keeping my eye on this comic (I lost my other eye by trusting the wrong person  :P)

Also very recently in Immortal Hulk:

Spoiler
Rick Jones came back to life.

[EDIT] oh and here's one I missed. I had to track down where I saw this:

There was an ad running in Marvel comics a few weeks ago for a story involving Venom that showed a bunch of Marvel characters being engulfed in pinkish/reddish tentacles with Venom at the top (a Carnage storyline I think; I vaguely recall hearing about that online) with the tagline "Everyone is a Target" The part that made it notable for me though? The teaser image was drawn by Greg Land, so in my mind it was "Everyone is a Target.....Of Terrible Greg Land Art"  :D
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Suppose it could have been worse,could have been Salvador Larroca.No wait,thats the same thing.
It could have been...Javier Pulido?Or any of the ton of people with that webcomic/tumblr artstyle Marvel likes so much these days.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

Yeah, I'm not a fan of a lot of the work Larrocca puts out these days. But he didn't use to look like that. You go back far enough, say, Extreme X-Men, I don't think it looks as photorealistic-style as it does now.

Does Larocca constantly recycle his own work, his own faces? Does he ripoff other artists' work constantly? Because I'd still put him above Land.

QuoteIt could have been...Javier Pulido?Or any of the ton of people with that webcomic/tumblr artstyle Marvel likes so much these days.

I have trouble remembering what Pulido's art looks like, but I'm sure I've read stuff by him. Yeah, there's a lot of artists working for Marvel these days I don't care for, including some a lot of people really like. I do find it a, let's say, detriment to the enjoyment of some of the books I do read.

I mean, right now mostly I'm just happy the artists of Avengers: No Road Home actually know how to draw Rocket Raccoon. It's been a long time coming.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Larocca does a lot of tracing.And like really lazy- I googled "Han Solo" and traced the first picture that came up - kind of tracing.
Ok,I had to look up who did that cr@ppy webcomic artstyle and Pulido came up.Thou,I assume hes not the only one responsible of that.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

detourne_me

Pulido is great! Especially his Robin Year One stuff. He's been around a while too, and comes from the same era as Michael Allred. Hard to lump him in with the tumblr crowd.

HarryTrotter

Okay,not the worst example.Take for example Brittney Williams or Kate Niemczyk.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

I'm happy to say I've never heard of either of those. I've got it lucky I guess.

Quoteand comes from the same era as Michael Allred

Sorry to say, I'm not a big fan of Micheal Allred. But you're right, he does come from that era.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Everyone saw that Mockingbird cover,but nobody looked inside...

Food for thoughts- with Disney buying Fox,Marvel might get Alien and Predator licences.Considering the sad state of both franchises,even Marvel-2019 couldnt funt it up any further.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

HarryTrotter

Spiderman Life Story #1 and #2 - Its actually good.We follow Peters life from '66 and in real time with (Im not gonna say realistic) naturalistic consequences.Vietnam war,Green Goblin,Professor Warren,Peters love triangle.And a lot of things play out differently due to the real time aspect.Like Flash dying in Vietnam,or Reed being divorced.But it doesnt feel dark,it just feels like life.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

Yeah, I meant to talk about this mini series in this thread a while ago. I was reading the solicits for it recently and thought it sounded kinda nifty. I wouldn't mind reading it some time down the line.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

#3683
Savage Avengers #1- Its some goofy $hit.And thats not a bad thing.You got Wolverine and Conan,cults kindnapping opera singers,elder gods... there is potential.However it wouldnt be the first time Duggan started good but just dissolved 10 issue in.
Deodados art is great as always,but the coloring is that super-digital in-house style and it screws it up royaly.
Oh,and its called Avengers but the team is more like Marvel Now Thunderbolts + Conan.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

kkhohoho

Seeing as no-one else has brought this up, I guess I will. This week's Uncanny X-Men dropped a few days ago and apparently it had Rahne (AKA Wolfsbane) beaten to death by a human mob as a metaphor for trans deaths. The author has apologized after his twitter feed exploded in outrage, but the deed is still done.

For the record, Rahne is one of my favourite X-characters of all time. She's adorable and awesome and I love her to bits. So to see her not only killed off in such a fashion that highlights the problem with the franchise of late, but to do so to address a topic that the writer clearly has little to no experience with is nothing short of rage-inducing. Nevermind that she's not even trans. It's f***ing tasteless.

https://www.newsarama.com/45039-uncanny-x-men-writer-addresses-controversial-scene-spoilers.html
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

daglob

I quit reading mutant books years ago because I just got tired of them dumping [censored] on them every month. It was unnecessary, just a kind of mental onanism in the disguise of being "edgy". Earlier writers and artists worked hard to make us  care for these characters, to want them to succeed and to have an occasional "up" with the "down". Sounds like things haven't changed.

crimsonquill

#3686
Rahne's pointless death just annoys the hell out of me because it just once again shows that current writers don't follow ANY character development OR even their own official handbooks. Heck, Rahne during her X-Force membership could charge into crowds of heavily armored Purifiers with weapons and leave with only a few scratches. Now she has been nerfed down to being taken out by a group of random haters without not fully cutting lose on them if her life was threatened?!?!

Spoiler
She literally is attacked then shifts into her half-wolf mode to defend herself wounding one of the attackers and then suddenly shifts back and apologizes for lashing out then after begging them to stop advancing on her she curls into a fetal position and they kick and attack her with blunt weapons. Seriously, She suddenly reverts back to her post-New Mutants frightened little girl state when Moria found her being chased by her fathers religious mob in Scottland. Seriously??! I'm sorry but after all of her character development in the last decade into becoming a tougher girl and even a member of X-Force that Cable and Deadpool were impressed by.. she now needed to become a normal defenseless human and reject her mutant side and die as a result.

OH HECK NO! Not even close to her wanting to leave her old life behind. She did that before when she thought she lost her powers and became an adrenaline junkie because she needed something to fill her need for action. This almost reminds me of that stupidity of writing we got when a story arc started with random mutants crucified on the lawn of the X-Mansion just to make a story impact and most of those deaths were retconned during Age Of X.

- CQ
"He said let there be light... CLICK! It was a lightbulb. And It was good."

Silver Shocker

Yeah, that sounds pretty bad. I haven't read X-Men in general in a few years (not counting Spider-Man/Deadpool, I picked up Charles Soule's Astonishing and Generation X, I think that was it) and it doesn't seem like I've missed anything good.

I have a longtime fondness for Rahne too, so yeah, that sounds pretty crappy.

QuoteThis almost reminds me of that stupidity of writing we got when a story arc started with random mutants crucified on the lawn of the X-Mansion just to make a story impact and most of those deaths were retconned during Age Of X.

So the X-Books are Chuck Austin bad these days? If so, that does put things in perspective.

As I'm sure I've said quite a few times lately, I've been reading a lot of older Marvel (and DC) comics in recent years, and I find it kinda refreshing. There's some good, fun, oldschool stories from back then that seem detached from the modern trends and instances of "because x writer says so" (not that that kinda thing didn't happen sometimes in comics written before 2005 or so, just it doesn't feel like it happened AS much).

It's a shame too, because Fox was supposed to release a New Mutants movie sometime in the future, featuring Maisie Williams (Arya Stark from Game of Thrones) as Wolfsbane, which could have made some people fans of her, but in the comics, you get this.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

crimsonquill

Quote from: Silver Shocker on May 04, 2019, 02:38:16 AM
It's a shame too, because Fox was supposed to release a New Mutants movie sometime in the future, featuring Maisie Williams (Arya Stark from Game of Thrones) as Wolfsbane, which could have made some people fans of her, but in the comics, you get this.

During the Cinemacon event a few weeks ago that Disney/FOX stepped out to show they are working together to bring new life into the franchises they purchased in this buyout, They confirmed that Deadpool will remain under the FOX banner with Ryan Reynolds leading all of connected films (I'm assuming that X-Force will be part of the Deadpool Universe) and letting the X-Men pass into the Marvel Cinematic Universe once X-Men: Dark Phoenix is released.

But they showed New Mutants among the films to be released this year but it didn't seem obvious if it was theatrical, Hulu, or otherwise. I'm getting the feeling they are waiting to see how Dark Phoenix does and use New Mutants to change the discussion of the last FOX mutant project they release.

- CQ
"He said let there be light... CLICK! It was a lightbulb. And It was good."

HarryTrotter

For a NoPrize-- It was those evil white nahzeeees from the south?   :banghead:
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer