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The Marvel Thread

Started by Previsionary, December 24, 2008, 11:48:35 PM

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Silver Shocker

#3690
Quote from: crimsonquill on May 04, 2019, 03:29:30 AM
Quote from: Silver Shocker on May 04, 2019, 02:38:16 AM
It's a shame too, because Fox was supposed to release a New Mutants movie sometime in the future, featuring Maisie Williams (Arya Stark from Game of Thrones) as Wolfsbane, which could have made some people fans of her, but in the comics, you get this.

But they showed New Mutants among the films to be released this year but it didn't seem obvious if it was theatrical, Hulu, or otherwise. I'm getting the feeling they are waiting to see how Dark Phoenix does and use New Mutants to change the discussion of the last FOX mutant project they release.

That is a pretty good option, that I didn't actually think of prior. However, they're now saying it will be release theatrically in 2020.

Anyway, time for a comics roundup:

Avengers: No Road Home: I found this weekly series had some noticeable similarities to the last two Avengers movies that I would guess are intentional. Most people would recognize this story as the one that introduces (or perhaps it would be more accurate to say reintroduces) Conan The Barbarian into the Marvel Universe. But there is quite a bit more going on. For one thing, Al Ewing being one of the writers involved, there are a bunch of references to his Mighty Avengers run.

Spoiler
The story includes a subplot of Rocket Raccoon spending time with Hawkeye and Hulk for a while, The Avengers largely getting curb-stomped by an overpowered villain who kills a LOT of established Marvel characters, and who has a miniboss team who the Avengers kill one by one. Then there's the ending, which sees Hercules going into space (possibly to appear in Guardians of the Galaxy)

There's also a heavy focus on Vision, which culminates in what I took as an extended tribute to Stan Lee, in which Vision chases down the villain to a magical house referred to as the "House of Ideas" and whups her butt by summoning the collective cast of Marvel comic's rich history, all drawn in the style of the Golden Age and Silver Age comics (including a visual homage to Vision's old backstory of being made based off the body of the original android Human Torch.

Even with all that going on, I found myself not enjoying it as much as I would have liked; I think its predecessor series, No Surrender, was better, and this one felt a little bit forced as a followup.

Avengers #18 A War of the Realms tie-in that's also a proper introduction to the newest incarnation of the Squadron Supreme, introduced earlier in Jason Aaron's run, and with a hefty dash of wink-wink Justice League references.

-There're now called the Squadon Supreme of America
-They're based in Washington DC, and are referred to more than once as "DC's Greatest Heroes!"
-Power Princess has a redesigned outfit that makes her look much more like Wonder Woman than ever before.
-Hyperion is a high school history teacher, teaching American history.
-Nighthawk is black (I think this is the first time that's happened?) And is the newly elective representative of the District of Colombia. It seems to be implied that his secret identity is public knowledge, or at least is known to his closest aids. He's also obsessively driven, fixated on his dead parents and suspicious of his teammates, just like Batman. (Or perhaps I should say, modern takes on Batman). As one character puts it "He's best when he's brooding."
-Power Princess is reimagined as an MMA fighter in her civilian life.
-Instead of Whizzer or Speed Demon, we have Blur, who works an office cubicle job and sometimes works multiple jobs due to his super speed. He's also a social media addict.
-It's drawn by Ed McGuinness, who's worked on Batman/Superman and JLA Classified, making it look very reminiscent of JLA.
-Apparently S.H.I.E.L.D. has/had a database of celebrity sex tapes. "Who knew Vision was such a freak in the sheets?" Yes, really.
-Ontario and Lake Eerie gets namedropped in this issue, which amuses me, since I live in Ontario. The SSA, being very gung-ho America, aren't as concerned about protecting Canada apparently.

Spoiler
When the SSA was introduced several issues ago in this run, they were revealed to be organized by Agent Coulson, who was miraculously brought back from the dead after dying in a Secret Empire tie-in. They reveal how he came back during a big reveal at the end of this issue. He was brought back by Mephisto, who's secretly behind this incarnation of the SS. Man, Mephisto's getting around these days. Coulson, surprisingly, seems to have turned heel too. He seems perfectly happy to be wining and dining (literally and figuratively with Mephisto, and, like Agent Garret in Al Ewing's New Avengers/U.S. Avengers run, is written, for one scene at least, as a stawman. He describes Power Princess as "Thor, but with boobs. Or Wolverine, you know, the OLD them. Before they went all SOFT." (I assume that's a reference to X23 taking over the role of Wolverine?) I'm curious how fans online feel about this take on Coulson. I may have to look that up later.

Spider-Man FCBD:
It features a Spider-Man story by Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man writer Tom Taylor that may very well be the most pointless Spider-Man story I've ever read, if not ever published. It's a team-up between Peter and Miles (I'd assume motivated by the success of the Into the Spider-Verse movie) and features them teaming up to battle The Shocker and discussing what pizza places in New York they think makes the best pizza. That's literally all that happens in the comic. (There's also a lead in to an upcoming Venom/Carnage story, but I'm specifically talking about this story)
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Supreme power had a black Nighthawk.He was even in the last Squadron Supreme series and had two series of his own.
/Checks wiki/ He got killed in Occupy Avengers,so I guess its not the same guy.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

No, it's definitely not the same guy. There's a running concept in the issue that this new Squadron Supreme is being "groomed" to be the NEW Squadron Supreme that's kinda vaguely defined but also clearly supposed to be subversive (some online have claimed that this version of Hyperion and Power Princess being a couple was a dig at The New 52's most criticized Supes/WW coupling, which I could believe) but also can't be too subversive because it's yet another retread at a team that was always an on-the-nose wink-wink reference to the "Distinguished Competition". So basically every version of them is either "Get it? They're the Justice League!" Or "This is not your father's Justice League" (which is funny, since the official DC does that with every other iteration anyway), or, in this case, a bit of both.

I enjoyed it, but the big twist seemed engineered to make fans angry (I'm one of those people who heavily suspect DC and Marvel often do that on purpose as a marketing ploy) and I'm only mildly curious to see where it actually goes since Aaron's run has been nothing if not all over the place (It's about caveman Avengers! It's about Namor! Now it's about the Russian superheroes! Now it's about The Squadron Supreme! Now it's about vampires!)
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Also,as I probably mentioned a few times,DC dropped the "of America" part 10 years ago,so this is a bit of a late jab.
And when your heroes only ever bother with New York,do you have the moral highground here?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

Well, at least in this case, that myopia is intentional, and meant to mark them as bad dudes.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

I get that,but its kinda lazy.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#3696
I've read the FCBD Avengers story now. It somehow managed to be even less subtle  :o

Tony Stark: Look, I've never considered myself an enemy of DC. There have been times you could even say I was a big fan. No matter the regime, they've always had people there who do great work. It's in all of our best interests that they do great work. But it's always seem to me they spend too much time worried about us, and annoyed we spend so little worried about them. [...] So hate us all you like. But deep down, you damn well know you wanna BE us. You wanna scream with all your might...MAKE MINE AVENGERS!

That's not to say we always know what we're doing around here. Even when it looks like we do, we probably made it up on the fly. We're good at that. It just means things get WEIRD sometimes. But you know what ol' Tony Stark always says...If ain't weird, you ain't trying.
-----------------------------

Gee, Jason Aaron, tell us how you really feel! I mean, come on! Half of that barely even fits the metaphor, if at all! To quote Giles from Buffy: The subtext is rapidly becoming text.

[EDIT] And now for something completely different:

Going over some older posts in this thread, this part stood out:

Quote from: HarryTrotterLarocca does a lot of tracing.And like really lazy- I googled "Han Solo" and traced the first picture that came up - kind of tracing.

I was looking at a Disney/Marvel Star Wars comic recently (can't remember which one - it was one of the recent $1 reprints) and the tracing for the Original Trilogy cast was really blatant. Like some of the most blatant tracing I've ever seen. It doesn't help when you're tracing the main cast of the one of the most iconic genre fiction franchises of all time. People are going to notice you traced live action visuals of Mark Hamill and Harrison Ford.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Im sensing some resentment there.Did DC did something to you while you were young,Jason? This is Warren Ellis level of "spontanous" rant.
#DiDioManBad I guess?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

HarryTrotter

We are almost at the end of this ASM crossover.And unless something really stupid happens in the last issue,it was...decent,I must say.Thou I will have the words "Thats so Kraven" stuck in my head.Spencer is down with the pop culture,he knows what kids are into. 🙂
X-men are getting a line wide reboot by Hitch.They must have funted up pretty bad,since they barely reached 20 issues.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

daglob


HarryTrotter

Around that,I think?2-3 less,maybe,I wasnt really keeping up.
And speaking of numbering,Marvel is doing a Marvel Comics #1000.Since the first issue of MC came out in 1939 I dont think this math adds up.But DC did it,and we need a landmark,dammit.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

HarryTrotter

Spiderman Life Story #3.It doesnt bring back as many elements as the previous issues.Mostly covering Kravens Last Hunt.But it still does an interesting spin on that.
And the WW3 thing pushes this a bit too much into What If territory.
Oh and quoting Stan Lees columns...even if you are not doing it ironicly,it doesnt work in your defense.Things changed.Stan said people told him there are too many Marvel titles,but also wanted new titles.He was kinda joking.Because you demanded it,Hulk gets a series and all that.Back when there were maybe 20 titles.
Now there are 70+ Marvel titles every month.There indeed IS too many titles.And nobody asked for them.Nobody wanted five Squirrel Girl books.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

kkhohoho

Quote from: HarryTrotter on May 20, 2019, 12:44:53 PM
Spiderman Life Story #3.It doesnt bring back as many elements as the previous issues.Mostly covering Kravens Last Hunt.But it still does an interesting spin on that.
And the WW3 thing pushes this a bit too much into What If territory.
Oh and quoting Stan Lees columns...even if you are not doing it ironicly,it doesnt work in your defense.Things changed.Stan said people told him there are too many Marvel titles,but also wanted new titles.He was kinda joking.Because you demanded it,Hulk gets a series and all that.Back when there were maybe 20 titles.
Now there are 70+ Marvel titles every month.There indeed IS too many titles.And nobody asked for them.Nobody wanted five Squirrel Girl books.

Except there aren't five Squirrel Girl books.

Methinks you're exaggerating just a wee bit.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

HarryTrotter

#3703
1) You are really trying too hard
2) Its a figure of speech.There are plenty of titles nobody asked for and that sell under 10k.
How many Iceman titles we had by now?
3) You did say your not buying any Marvel books,so why do you have a problem?Is it just me?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

stumpy

After several complaints about the ongoing political discussion and some personal back and forth here, I have deleted some posts in this thread. There is nothing exact in which posts have been deleted; don't assume that things were all 100% okay before the deletion and don't assume that the first post that was clipped was the "bad one". That's not how real life works.

To be clear: Politics are often a part of the context or subtext or plaintext or cyphertext or whatever of many things, including comic books. That's not the issue. The issue is that FR is not the place to discuss such things. We often vary over when the line is crossed, but if the comment about a political aspect of a comic is going to tempt someone to follow up on it, then this isn't the place for that comment.

To be even more clear, when discussions enter the realm of personal remarks or implications that someone is endorsing or advocating something distasteful, then the line has definitely been crossed. It does not matter if someone else started it. If someone posts something that's out of bounds, the use the report feature. The mod team will take a look at it and decide what to do. Don't assume that since you can't see what's been done that nothing has been done.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

SickAlice

I swear it's always heated here. It's easy to get buried under all the details and more the nonsense in the world. In the people, in the communities, in life and in consumerism. It's a complex time to be alive. Don't let it drag you, even when it comes to your passion for the comic industry. This group has and always has been something special I don't see around the internet a lot. This is a very selective place for unique individuals with strong hearts for art coming together. Never let things like counter-opinions pull you from the importance of that and of the potential for great friends here. These people helped me through some of the most tragic times in my life and helped lift me up when I was at my most tragic. The thing to remember that for all the painful bologna is it's to serve as a reminder to focus and appreciate the good things when they are there and the good people. And you're all good people in my book. Else political stuff...yeah, that's what social networks are for now I think, or at least for political memes? Anyways love ya all, peace and killer whale.

On topic well, I don't care for the event but that's okay. Keeps me cut down on reading and I have too much else to do. And pay for for that matter. Let's me focus on the books I think are gems. I consider this and across the board here is it's a different time for superhero comics, like then we've ever seen. Both major companies are owned by entertainment giants now and all other properties are either trademarked by someone or at least all people working in the field are keeping themselves upon to being eyed by the industry so they can make some of that hot dollar. And who wouldn't really? That and we are at the cusp of an era where style is changing for the next generation, sort of like when the alternative music scene became a huge thing. With that happening it's all changing fast as the older folks running these publishing houses are trying to make sense of what the next generation will want to buy, noting the future of print itself standing on a ledge here, and what the die-hards still will as well. I think that accounts for why the state of comics are so strange right now and very scattershot for lack of a better term. It's a fun time to be watching it all at least. My stepdad has a plastic Rocket Raccoon on the dash of his truck, I mean he knows who that character is and I never would have dreamed of this day. I guess that's my sum and I say don't let yourself see it for anything it isn't. They're still people trying to entertain and do their jobs, it's just that they live in a time where it's not really concluded what that actually is. Me, I've just been reading old TPB's anyways. I figure if my love is for how the classics where told then why not give them a go again. Best I have to offer on the topic.


SickAlice

My mom makes fried bologna. Looks like zombie Pac-MAN.

GhostMachine

Fried is the only way I like bologna. And I like to cook it until the edge starts to turn black.


murs47

It's been a while since I popped a comic open but I hear Jonathan Hickman is making a comeback and Marvel is giving him full reign over the X-Men. Any details on what he's planning? Inside trade secrets? Stolen personal diary? Spill it folks!

SickAlice

Most is all over CBR and what not about that. I'm a fan so sounds good. Mostly covers, he likes to surprise his readers and doesn't seem apt to say much. Though in the interviews they kept coming at him with fan assumptions and it seemed to be making him upset a little. This is the interview in question but it's as verbal as I've seen him about the whole thing so far and the least cryptic.

https://www.cbr.com/jonathan-hickman-house-of-x-powers-of-x-interview/

There's some other sort of answers linked in it. This tweet by him is just fun.

https://twitter.com/JHickman/status/1131373624273887232

murs47

That was an intriguing article. A bit cryptic. Or perhaps void of many details. It looks like each issue will be 40+ pages if I read that correctly; without relying on cliché cliffhangers at the end of every issue. Yup, I'll be trying this.

That tweet :lol:

SickAlice

Right? I mean Hickman is a bit of a snob but he's so eloquent and funny about it. And for sure, what else is new with him. Year one and two of keeping everyone guessing then he drops the bomb on it, it works so well for his writing. His Fantastic Four run speaks for itself here.

murs47

"The most important scene in X-Men history." wasn't just hype and marketing. The latest issue(House of X #2) really blew my mind. I think Hickman just out-Morrison'd Grant Morrison, but without drugs.

SickAlice

Heh. Funny way to put it. Interesting method and I mean cleaning up continuity errors at the start of the story rather than at the end like he did with Time Runs Out. Complicated too, bless him for the included infographs explaining all that. Any read you have to sit and think about after is a worthwhile read.

murs47

Quote from: SickAlice on August 08, 2019, 02:33:44 PM
Any read you have to sit and think about after is a worthwhile read.

Right? I read it before heading to bed last night and thought to myself:

Spoiler
"Moira, you knew everything this entire time and every event was you trying to manipulate the future to fit your goal." X-Men events sped through my mind. Each one sparked by Moira's actions. We've known her for so long, but really, she didn't have many layers. But it's always been her. Everything has been her. It sounds so ridiculous, but reading the issue, it works so darn well. Hats off to Marvel for allowing Hickman to be bold and daring. And to Hickman for executing it like a champ.

SickAlice

Exactly tho, he is one of the few that can take something that on paper would sound silly and make it work. The fun part is this just the start. Knowing how he writes we haven't even seen the real double take yet and that's saying something.

SickAlice

Just when you think you saw the most unnerving piece of nightmare fuel Immortal Hulk had to offer you read the next issue and find out how wrong you were.

SickAlice

Typing it somewhere just because it's a bit of a tick in my brain but I noticed Marvel very recently put out at least four direct sequels of established storylines without naming nor promoting them as such, in some cases rather applauded and well known ones. Just seemed odd that they wouldn't attempt to notify fans of those stories they had continued them.

Silver Shocker

#3718
QuoteTyping it somewhere just because it's a bit of a tick in my brain but I noticed Marvel very recently put out at least four direct sequels of established storylines without naming nor promoting them as such, in some cases rather applauded and well known ones. Just seemed odd that they wouldn't attempt to notify fans of those stories they had continued them.

The funny thing is I knew a guy at the previous comic book store I used to go to. He was one of the most insufferable people I'd ever met in my life. I used to watch an old Canadian tv show as a kid and one of the characters had a nickname for someone: "Pretentious Idiot". Before we threw around the word "hipster". This guy is that guy.

With Marvel he'd be all like "What is there to like? They just rehash all of their old stories?" And I'm just like 1) Nice oversimplification for the benefit of bashing them. 2) I KNOW you haven't read a Marvel in years and 3) You can do that for EVERYTHING.  (and in many cases, we do) You can do "DC? What is there to like? They just reboot their universe every few years, then undo it, then reboot again, rinse and repeat"

That one, shallow, stubborn, narrow-minded criticism (from someone who would later praise some DC books for doing their own takes on classic Marvel characters) got me thinking for a longtime, and my conclusion was that originality is 1) overrated and 2) ultimately worthless. It's going to come down to execution. "Originality" (or rather "the illusion of originality") is ultimately only going to get you so far.

Back to Marvel, if we're at the point where they actually don't want to use the name of the story they're making the new story a sequel to, because they are worried people will see that name with a number or a subtitle at the end ("Annihilation: Scourge", for example) and will actually be discouraged from reading them, I actually can't fault them for that. It's kinda a problem they created for themselves over time, but it is what it is.

In any case, Empyre, for example. That book can be complete trash. It can be a pointless retread, ect. And ultimately, I'm probably not going to care because Hulkling from Young Avengers in it. That's the fanboy in me, I supposed, but darn it, I've been waiting a long time for some YA content. Sometimes I'll take what I can get.

[edit] Returning to this point months later....I must have been pretty tired when I wrote this because the middle paragraph was so awkwardly, poorly writing, I myself had trouble telling what I was originally trying to say and opted to rewrite a good chunk of it for clarity's sake.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

SickAlice

#3719
Annihilation: Scourge was one example, can't recall the rest I read when I said that. It was the continuation and closure of several dangling plotlines from over the years yet they made no mention of it in the adverts for it. Oh and the recent Death's Head mini speaking of YA was a continuation of every Death's Head versions story but moreso a Young Avengers sequel, focusing on Wiccan and Hulking. Yet again they didn't promote that. Seemed odd to me, I would think they'd want to alert the fans of those characters.

Not sure I understand where the rest of that is stemming from sorry, it wasn't in my post? I was just wondering why they didn't tell the public. Though yeah, my comic shop guy was a nightmare when I was a kid. It was Batman or nothing, I eventually found a different way to get comics because I didn't feel like dealing with him. And holy moly did he hate the Archies Turtles with passion. Had a huge mural on the wall that said "Death To Archies" with a middle finger painted on it and refused to sell anything by the company as a result. Not sure if it's an LCS thing or a fandom thing, I think the latter. At some point it can become like a clubhouse and the fans become confused into thinking the medium is owned by and supposed to cater to themselves solely. Noting that in any fandom, music ones as well can be rife with it. I got to a point where I filter all that out, full time job online of course and choose to indulge whatever I feel like. No different than someone hating on a type of pie, won't prevent me from eating and enjoying it.

I'll add my stance for completions sakes here, "I like comics". There's never been a home team for me. Same applies to any arts, I like any music depending on the mood and the individual case. I note that I grew up in an era where B was acceptable. A movie could for example be poorly done in fact they spit out tons of them back in the day but it didn't mean a person could enjoy it any less. At best I consider this idea of picking apart the arts to the point of being hostile about it a result of growing up in a consumerism. "My way right away" as the slogan says. I never became acclimated to that, perhaps from growing up in poverty. As far originality well comic books, and I mean the very structure and foundation are based in trends so it's really a moot point. And not the devils handiwork some would make it out to be. The compromise with art when trying to share it with the masses is in order to do that it must become a product and thus confined by the structure of a product. It has to cater to what sells otherwise it doesn't. This will become more relevant in the coming year I think with the stock market in the hole and shops closed as series end up cancelled or just delayed. Naturally instead of minding the market trends most of fandom will probably just as well direct that frustration over not getting it their way right way in the form of dissing and/or blaming the rival product to the one they desire the most. Then again that itself is just a trend and in an odd way just some peoples way of showing appreciation for the arts so it might not be a bad thing. It's passionate interest I mean and thus supports the industry one way or another in the end.