Please, please, don't go see Transformers 2

Started by BWPS, June 28, 2009, 09:13:14 PM

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House Quake

Quote from: stumpy on July 07, 2009, 04:38:38 PM
What the heck? One doesn't have to be part of a "cynical minority" to think many of the issues discussed about this movie are likely to make it crummy entertainment. And, I haven't really been hearing that the majority of moviegoers (cynical or otherwise) are raving about how entertaining they found it.

You're taking what I said wrong.  The biggest cynics of movies, whether it's a good movie or bad movie, will always be the minority.  And i wasn't talking about this movie specifically... just in general.

The people on these forums tend to be some of the most critical and cynical of movie goers.  On these forums... for years.. I've seen movies diced to shreds before the script is even written.  To many people assume a movie will suck before they go see it OR they build up thier expectations so high... the movie has little chance to satisfy.  so they dice it up after the fact.

Personally... I have no problem with anyone liking or disliking a movie.  I do, however, wish they would judge for themselves rather than going off of the opinions of others.  But if they choose to mandate thier movie experiences based on the opinions of others... then so be it.  But what I do have problems with, is when these same cynics in thier cynicism... infer that there is something 'wrong' or 'inferior' about people who enjoy what they consider to be a bad movie.  The people who they say belong to the 'lowest common denominator' of life or get what they deserve by apying to see movies 'they' say are bad.

People need to realize that thier opinions are just that... opinions.  Just because a movie doesn't add up to thier expectations..doesn't mean it is necessarily a bad movie...  just bad to them.  And it certainly doesn't mean there is something wrong with those who would pay to see the movie and find it enjoyable.
Quote from: UnfluffyBunny on July 08, 2009, 12:32:55 AM
so either i'm reading incorrectly between the lines of posts in this thread, or i'm indirectly being called "uneducated" for enjoying this movie?
I picked that up a while ago 

BentonGrey

If the shoe fits......

Kidding. :P  I haven't seen this movie, and so I am making no judgments about what your liking it might say about you or anyone else.  I AM saying that by settling for movies that are all show and no stay (whether Transformers is one of these or not), we, as a culture, are setting ourselves up for more of the same.  We could get movies that have great action AND a decent story, but because we vote with our wallets for garbage, we are sure to get more of the same.  

Sorry HQ, I don't by literary relativism.....or really, relativism in general.  All works are not created equal.  Yeah, there is a lot of room for taste, but some things are good, some things are bad, and human beings are certainly not above enjoying something that is bad for them.  I love cheeseburgers....mmmm....cheeseburgers.....
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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Ajax

Thank you HQ. You put that far more eloquently than I ever could. Seemed before Kommando made the first post this whole thread was going to be a treatise on how TF2 is a sign of the downfall of man and how uneducated 'the masses' are who helped this movie make so much money. Like I said I was a bit afraid to even say I enjoyed the movie because they would probably have torn me to shreds.

Is the movie going to be on anyone's top 10 of 2009? Top 30? Probably not. But there are dozens of movies released every year just in this country alone (and we are 2nd/3rd in terms of # of movies produced annually HK being #1 and Bollywood being around where we are). The industry is playing the odds and hopes at least a few of them are hits. Plus their favorite things are properties like Transformers, they don't see it the same way fans do, they just see the fans as a built in audience. As for how a script like this one gets by, the way I understand it, your average script reader reads three scenes, the opening, a randomly selected scene in the middle and the final scene. From these three scenes the reader has to make a judgment as to whether the script gets green lighted or not. When it comes to a sequel I'm sure the method is even looser.

Sevenforce

Quote from: BentonGrey on July 08, 2009, 03:28:09 AM
If the shoe fits......

Kidding. :P  I haven't seen this movie, and so I am making no judgments about what your liking it might say about you or anyone else.  I AM saying that by settling for movies that are all show and no stay (whether Transformers is one of these or not), we, as a culture, are setting ourselves up for more of the same.  We could get movies that have great action AND a decent story, but because we vote with our wallets for garbage, we are sure to get more of the same.  

Sorry HQ, I don't by literary relativism.....or really, relativism in general.  All works are not created equal.  Yeah, there is a lot of room for taste, but some things are good, some things are bad, and human beings are certainly not above enjoying something that is bad for them.  I love cheeseburgers....mmmm....cheeseburgers.....

What he said, but I'll add that paying for sub-par entertainment only encourages more sub-par entertainment, using more money than is needed, when that money could be better used elsewhere, on smaller budget endeavours, for better results. See: a lot of Joss Whedon's work.

The entertainment industry as a whole is bloated, looking for the common denominator and the 'bottom line' to get the most money from a production, and, while good business, its not an indicator for quality (damn capitalism :P).

However, I will concede that all of that is exactly what HQ said - it's my opinion. Is it right? That is also up to public opinion. At the end of the day, the majority wins out, and at the moment, the majority has spoken with both money and opinions. The money just happens to speak louder :D
I so need booze -_-

BWPS

Yeah guys, people paid Picasso and Mondian for their crap which lead to even more BS stuff like Pollock and Warhol. One day far from now some poor student will have to watch and be tested on Transformers 2 and ask why they're watching such a bad movie and why anyone considers Bay one of the great filmmakers and the douchey film teacher will try to make him feel bad because he doesn't "get" it.

I'm just kidding, enjoy whatever you like.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

BentonGrey

Quote from: BWPS on July 08, 2009, 02:28:30 PM
Yeah guys, people paid Picasso and Mondian for their crap which lead to even more BS stuff like Pollock and Warhol. One day far from now some poor student will have to watch and be tested on Transformers 2 and ask why they're watching such a bad movie and why anyone considers Bay one of the great filmmakers and the douchey film teacher will try to make him feel bad because he doesn't "get" it.

I'm just kidding, enjoy whatever you like.

Ohh good heaven!  I have seen the future, and it is a dark and hopeless place!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

deano_ue

Quote from: UnfluffyBunny on July 08, 2009, 12:32:55 AM
so either i'm reading incorrectly between the lines of posts in this thread, or i'm indirectly being called "uneducated" for enjoying this movie?

thats the way i took this thread, if i enjoyed this movie in anyway then i must be an idiot and part of the downfall of society. yes i see the faults in this film and wish we hadn't seen devastors nutsack, or the ghetto/hillbilly bots but i still enjoyed an action film which when you see micheal bays name you should expect

Talavar

Quote from: House Quake on July 07, 2009, 04:02:46 PM
Quote from: Talavar on July 04, 2009, 04:22:54 PM
If people want to watch good summer movies - and I don't mean Hamlet here, but ones like Iron Man, the Dark Knight, the films Pixar makes, etc. - they have to show that quality matters to them in the only way that movie studios pay attention to, and that's by voting with their spending dollars.
The public actually does speak volumes about what they enjoy vs. what they don't.  It just doesn't matter to the public what you or I would consider a good movie and what we don't. Do you realize just how many so called summer blockbusters fail...?  Most of them flop.  Very few succeed.  And they succeed not by catering to the cynical minority... but by trying to cater to the majority who simply wants to have be entertained.  Movie studios don't purposely spend millions on a 'bad' movie... but they will try to spend the money on movies they think would entertain.  The question is what do you consider entertaining?

A lot of summer blockbusters fail?  Since when?  This year so far, the only outright flop of a hoped-for 'blockbuster' was Land of the Lost; Terminator Salvation & Wolverine have "underperformed."  And here's Hollywood's dirty little secret for whenever they plead poverty - all films make money.  With international box office, home video sales & rentals, and the various levels of selling television rights (pay channels, broadcast networks, cable networks, etc.) every film turns a profit eventually.

But you're right, they don't try to make a 'bad' movie; quality is a non-factor on films like this.  It's an added expense to pursue, with no guarantee of achieving it, and even if they did, quality is no guarantee of high box office.  What they do try is to make a movie that, while appealing to the largest number of possible audience members, also does nothing to turn off or challenge those audience members.  The audience for big summers movies like Transformers is mostly young - teens to late twenties - and mostly male, though that is somewhat changing.

Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on July 08, 2009, 04:06:39 PM
Quote from: UnfluffyBunny on July 08, 2009, 12:32:55 AM
so either i'm reading incorrectly between the lines of posts in this thread, or i'm indirectly being called "uneducated" for enjoying this movie?

thats the way i took this thread, if i enjoyed this movie in anyway then i must be an idiot and part of the downfall of society. yes i see the faults in this film and wish we hadn't seen devastors nutsack, or the ghetto/hillbilly bots but i still enjoyed an action film which when you see micheal bays name you should expect

If you went to Transformers 2 and genuinely enjoyed it, then you got your money's worth, and that's fine.  But if you're just settling for it being good enough, because it's this year's big movie, or finding small elements to like in an otherwise flawed whole - which is what I've mostly been hearing about Transformers 2 - it still doesn't make you uneducated, or an idiot, or part of the downfall of society, but it does make you an undiscriminating consumer.  If you bought a pair of pants and you realized they weren't very good, but they had a few things you liked about them, would you buy more pants like that?  Maybe, but most people would look for pants that included those elements they liked, but that were all-around a better fit.  That's true of most purchases, but a lot of people seem unwilling to extend that kind of discerning spending to entertainment.  And that's the only way to encourage, not "better" films, but films that you like.

We vote with our dollars spent, and too many people seem willing to vote for products and services that they don't really like without deep reservations or misgivings.  That's the problem as I see it anyway.

BentonGrey

God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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Ajax

Quote from: Talavar on July 08, 2009, 04:56:04 PMIf you went to Transformers 2 and genuinely enjoyed it, then you got your money's worth, and that's fine.  But if you're just settling for it being good enough, because it's this year's big movie, or finding small elements to like in an otherwise flawed whole - which is what I've mostly been hearing about Transformers 2 - it still doesn't make you uneducated, or an idiot, or part of the downfall of society, but it does make you an undiscriminating consumer.  If you bought a pair of pants and you realized they weren't very good, but they had a few things you liked about them, would you buy more pants like that?  Maybe, but most people would look for pants that included those elements they liked, but that were all-around a better fit.  That's true of most purchases, but a lot of people seem unwilling to extend that kind of discerning spending to entertainment.  And that's the only way to encourage, not "better" films, but films that you like.

We vote with our dollars spent, and too many people seem willing to vote for products and services that they don't really like without deep reservations or misgivings.  That's the problem as I see it anyway.

There is a problem with your pants metaphor. You can try a pair of pants on before you buy it. You can't do the same with a movie (legally). The only honest way to judge whether a movie is good or not is to go see it, but you have already spent money on it sight unseen. You can't depend on reviews cause they are all filtered through the experince of the reviewer. You also can't rely on your friends word of mouth since I for one know that there are movies my friends love that I hate and vise versa. So that leaves us back at square one. How do we tell the movie companies we don't like a movie without offhandedly dismissing it without ever seeing it? I think cat has the only viable option which is not go see the sequel though that assumes there will be one to go see.

BentonGrey

#70
Well, if you know your friends, then generally you can get a pretty good idea of what a movie is going to be like from their reactions.  For example, if my friend Hank pans a movie because he said it was boring, I know not to take that at face value, since he doesn't have the patience for deep films.  However, if my friend James tells me the movie is boring, then I give that more credence.  On the flip side of that, Hank has a great appreciation for impressive visuals, and so on.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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TheMarvell

the movie is a sequel to a film that was relatively well received by both critics and audiences alike. Rotten Tomatoes gave the first one around a 50% or so, which isn't really that bad, all things considering. I saw the first one and liked it a lot, and still want to see the sequel regardless of word of mouth. Therein lies the issue with this debate here. If you liked the first one, there's not much reason to not see the second one.

I've noticed the cynicism on this thread as well, but it can go both ways. I've seen movies I loved get totally bashed on this forum, while movies I thought were terrible get mostly praise. Just off the top of my head, I really like X-Men 3, but a vast majority here hate it. Same with Ang Lee's Hulk. On the flip side, I absolutely hated Indiana Jones 4, while most people here loved it. I was a bit torn with Watchmen, thinking it was only good in portions and weak overall as a movie, but was surprised to see almost everyone here give it praise.

Strange world we live in.  :P

marhawkman

whereas I liked most of those movies you mentioned. :p

Talavar

Quote from: Ajax on July 08, 2009, 08:42:27 PM
Quote from: Talavar on July 08, 2009, 04:56:04 PMIf you went to Transformers 2 and genuinely enjoyed it, then you got your money's worth, and that's fine.  But if you're just settling for it being good enough, because it's this year's big movie, or finding small elements to like in an otherwise flawed whole - which is what I've mostly been hearing about Transformers 2 - it still doesn't make you uneducated, or an idiot, or part of the downfall of society, but it does make you an undiscriminating consumer.  If you bought a pair of pants and you realized they weren't very good, but they had a few things you liked about them, would you buy more pants like that?  Maybe, but most people would look for pants that included those elements they liked, but that were all-around a better fit.  That's true of most purchases, but a lot of people seem unwilling to extend that kind of discerning spending to entertainment.  And that's the only way to encourage, not "better" films, but films that you like.

We vote with our dollars spent, and too many people seem willing to vote for products and services that they don't really like without deep reservations or misgivings.  That's the problem as I see it anyway.

There is a problem with your pants metaphor. You can try a pair of pants on before you buy it. You can't do the same with a movie (legally). The only honest way to judge whether a movie is good or not is to go see it, but you have already spent money on it sight unseen. You can't depend on reviews cause they are all filtered through the experince of the reviewer. You also can't rely on your friends word of mouth since I for one know that there are movies my friends love that I hate and vise versa. So that leaves us back at square one. How do we tell the movie companies we don't like a movie without offhandedly dismissing it without ever seeing it? I think cat has the only viable option which is not go see the sequel though that assumes there will be one to go see.

The entertainment equivalent of trying on a pair of pants is finding people who's opinions you do trust on that type of entertainment, whether that's friends, reviewers, aggregates of reviews like Rotten Tomatoes or Metacritic or something else.  It's not foolproof, but then, neither is trying on pants.

The performance of sequels has come to be a measure of the quality of the previous film in a series for a few reasons: big films put such a marketing blitz out that most of the people going to see a film in theatres see it in its first week, and big films often embargo reviewers from printing anything before the film is in wide-release.  If the previous film in a series was good, in the absence of contradicting information, its fans will go out to see the next film in large numbers - the factor I blame the large box offices (the largest in their respective series) of X-men 3 & Spider-man 3 on.  Wolverine, in many ways X-men 4, may have suffered as much from the reception of 3 as it did from the internet leak & from poor word of mouth on the film itself, and I imagine Spider-man 4 will have an uphill climb in proving it's better than 3 was, and may still take in less money than 3 did.

UnfluffyBunny

Quote from: Talavar on July 08, 2009, 04:56:04 PM
If you went to Transformers 2 and genuinely enjoyed it, then you got your money's worth, and that's fine.  But if you're just settling for it being good enough, because it's this year's big movie, or finding small elements to like in an otherwise flawed whole - which is what I've mostly been hearing about Transformers 2 - it still doesn't make you uneducated, or an idiot, or part of the downfall of society, but it does make you an undiscriminating consumer.  If you bought a pair of pants and you realized they weren't very good, but they had a few things you liked about them, would you buy more pants like that?  Maybe, but most people would look for pants that included those elements they liked, but that were all-around a better fit.  That's true of most purchases, but a lot of people seem unwilling to extend that kind of discerning spending to entertainment.  And that's the only way to encourage, not "better" films, but films that you like.

no-one's claiming they're "settling" for the movie, it's been said by multiple posters, myself included, that they enjoyed the movie, which is an apparant impossibility because of apparently how attrocious it is, saying things like, and yes I adlib slightly, films like the transformers "arent aimed at us, they're aimed at them" is a pretty wide accusation to make, one of many comments indicating the impression that people who would enjoy the movie are somehow of a lower standard, which would make me more prone to question the kind of person who would publicly enforce this somewhat ignorant stereotype of a "them" over a simple matter of personal taste.
(not aimed directly at the poster who made the us/them comment, it's a general thing between ALOT of the posts).
slating a film off is one thing, freedom of speech and right to oppinion and all, but slating off a film and generalising the people who would enjoy said film in such a negative manner is a pretty shameful act.
I suppose it's another netiquette issue, people forget that things they say on an internet forum may be read by people they shed in an unfavourable light upon, and in such dont realise they're insulting people untill someone points it out.

BentonGrey

Now UB, most of the posts I've read of people who enjoyed the film indicated that they didn't necessarily think it was a "good" movie, but that they enjoyed the action, or something along those lines.  Several of the people who have responded favorably to the movie have said that they DID wish that several things had been different about it.  I think it would be fair to say that they are "settling" for the movie if they weren't 100% happy with it.  As Talavar said, though, they got their money's worth if they enjoyed it.  Good for them.  That being said, it isn't like I've never done that myself.  I settled for RotK in the theaters, thinking that the extended edition would make up for its shortcomings.  Turned out I was wrong, but still, the point stands. :P
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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House Quake

Quote from: BentonGrey on July 09, 2009, 12:13:48 AM
Now UB, most of the posts I've read of people who enjoyed the film indicated that they didn't necessarily think it was a "good" movie, but that they enjoyed the action, or something along those lines.  Several of the people who have responded favorably to the movie have said that they DID wish that several things had been different about it.  I think it would be fair to say that they are "settling" for the movie if they weren't 100% happy with it.  As Talavar said, though, they got their money's worth if they enjoyed it.  Good for them.  That being said, it isn't like I've never done that myself.  I settled for RotK in the theaters, thinking that the extended edition would make up for its shortcomings.  Turned out I was wrong, but still, the point stands. :P
No it isn't fair to say that.  Because some people may be 100% happy with a movie IN SPITE OF its shortcomings.  It all comes from my original assertions of what do you expect out of a movie and what do you consider entertainment. The term 'settling' infers acceptance of a lower standard vs. personal taste.

That's like saying you settled for your GF because others said she was too short, or too fat, or not bright enough.  Heck somethings they say, may even be true in your eyes as well.  But you would never say you settled.... or would you say you love her in spite of... or you just love her and the opinoons of others don't matter.

But... I probably shouldn't be surprised.  People who think so highly of thier own opinions, often take the stance some have in this thread and others like it.  People need to realize personal opinions and preferences are just that.  And just because others like, accept, tolerate, etc something the cynics deam is beneath them... only speaks of the cynics own jaded standards and not the supposed sub-standards of others.

And I thought LotR:RotK was a very good movie

Jakew

#77
http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2009/07/i_am_a_brainiac.html

I'm a proud Brainiac

QuoteBy Roger Ebert on July 5, 2009 10:55 AM | Permalink | Comments (708) | TrackBacks (0) [/b]

Roger Ebert is a moron! Transformers 2 is the best action movie ever. Don't listem to that moron! He is only into slow boring romantic movies. That is his type of movies. Michael Bay did a great good. Roger... your an old fart! John C

Having now absorbed all or parts of 750 responses to my complaints about "Transformers," I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that most of those writing agree with me that it is a horrible movie. After all, look where they've chosen to comment. There have, however been some disagreements that I thought were reasonable. These writers mostly said they had a thing about the Transformers toys of their childhoods, or liked the animation on TV, or like to see stuff blowed up real good. In that case. Michael Bay is your man. If you enjoyed the movie, there is no way I can say you're wrong. About yourself, anyway.

[...]

[mod edit]

stumpy

#78
Look, there is nothing wrong with judging a movie we haven't seen. It's a necessity for movie-goers. Most of us don't have the luxury in time or money to see every movie that comes to the screen. When I choose to see A over B, it's usually because I am judging A to be better than B, in terms of its entertainment value. (And, though it should go without saying, I mean it's entertainment value to me.) I usually have to make that judgment before seeing either one and making that judgment doesn't make me a snob or a cynic or (at the other end) a rube or a Pollyanna.

Furthermore, neither does making judgments based on others' opinions of the movies. We all use the information we have available, tempered by understanding of its context and potential biases. No one who has to make choices about movies goes in without some pre-judgment of the movie, even if that judgment is only that the movie is likely to be worth their $10 or whatever. (And, the value judgment we make includes the social context surrounding the outing. I have gone to movies fully expecting the movie to stink but thinking that it would be fun to see it with my friends, even if only to laugh at its mediocrity.) Even the trailer for a movie is a review of sorts (saying "Here is what this movie is like!"), though it is one we understand to be deliberately biased. Furthermore, even people who say, "I am waiting for the DVD, so I am not judging now" aren't exactly correct, because they are at least judging that it isn't worth it for them to see in the theater. If they thought it was the best movie of all time, they would likely not want to wait, so they are judging that it's somewhere below that quality.

Speaking perhaps only for myself, I don't particularly like populism ("it must be good because so many people like it"). And, I don't like anti-populism ("it must stink because so many people like it"). I feel pretty much the same way about elitism ("it must be good because only a select few appreciate it") and anti-elitism ("it must stink because only snobs like it"). And all reviews have potential problems. So, I respect the view that it's tough to come to a conclusive judgment about a movie without seeing it yourself. But, it's also true that you can come to a perfectly useful judgment about a movie by listening to others' critiques, calibrated, to the best of your ability, to your own tastes. In my view, that judgment might not be a final call on the matter, but it often is in practical terms, because there are only so many opportunities to revisit it. And, doing so doesn't make you a populist or an elitist or one of their opponents.

Further, it's not necessarily snobby to say that the success of something that you judge to have low quality is a sign that many people aren't great judges of quality or aren't discerning consumers, by your standard. I once heard someone declare that the the world "must love garbage" because a certain corn chip had more shelf space than the one he liked. I don't think he considered himself among the culinary elite. And, people can make mind-boggling choices and still not be stupid. I've met people who admitted to buying a "pet rock" back in the day; they weren't all idiots. Moreover, it's also true that lots of people go see the weekend's "big movie" without spending much time looking over reviews or listening to word of mouth because they are pre-judging based on the trailer, or their enjoyment of the first movie, or whatever else.

On the other hand, the fact that a lot of people see a movie simply does not mean that most of them liked it. I usually check movie listings at moviefone, which has links to critics' reviews and user reviews. I don't usually even bother looking at the user reviews because there are too many of them and they are all over the map. But, it is pretty rare for such a widely-viewed movie to have as low an average user review as this one (less than 1/5 stars). I don't take that as anything other than confirmation that a movie's ticket sales are neither an indicator that it's good nor an indication that people have no taste.


Anyway, there has been a fair amount of heat in this thread on both sides. I'm not comfortable with the idea that people who liked the movie are all due for remedial instruction. And, I also note that it's a similar gross generalization to say that people who think the movie will stink or that Hollywood often lets quality slip are all cynical snobs. Neither view seems all that accurate and both (well intended or not) come across as a little rude.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

Talavar

Quote from: UnfluffyBunny on July 08, 2009, 11:41:34 PM
Quote from: Talavar on July 08, 2009, 04:56:04 PM
If you went to Transformers 2 and genuinely enjoyed it, then you got your money's worth, and that's fine.  But if you're just settling for it being good enough, because it's this year's big movie, or finding small elements to like in an otherwise flawed whole - which is what I've mostly been hearing about Transformers 2 - it still doesn't make you uneducated, or an idiot, or part of the downfall of society, but it does make you an undiscriminating consumer.  If you bought a pair of pants and you realized they weren't very good, but they had a few things you liked about them, would you buy more pants like that?  Maybe, but most people would look for pants that included those elements they liked, but that were all-around a better fit.  That's true of most purchases, but a lot of people seem unwilling to extend that kind of discerning spending to entertainment.  And that's the only way to encourage, not "better" films, but films that you like.

no-one's claiming they're "settling" for the movie, it's been said by multiple posters, myself included, that they enjoyed the movie, which is an apparant impossibility because of apparently how attrocious it is, saying things like, and yes I adlib slightly, films like the transformers "arent aimed at us, they're aimed at them" is a pretty wide accusation to make, one of many comments indicating the impression that people who would enjoy the movie are somehow of a lower standard, which would make me more prone to question the kind of person who would publicly enforce this somewhat ignorant stereotype of a "them" over a simple matter of personal taste.
(not aimed directly at the poster who made the us/them comment, it's a general thing between ALOT of the posts).
slating a film off is one thing, freedom of speech and right to oppinion and all, but slating off a film and generalising the people who would enjoy said film in such a negative manner is a pretty shameful act.
I suppose it's another netiquette issue, people forget that things they say on an internet forum may be read by people they shed in an unfavourable light upon, and in such dont realise they're insulting people untill someone points it out.

I don't think it's an impossibility that people genuinely liked the movie; I opened my statement with "If you went to Transformers 2 and genuinely enjoyed it, then you got your money's worth, and that's fine," after all.  But some people in this thread have very much suggested that they're settling for Transformers 2, and I've heard similar from friends who have gone to see it - namely that it had cool parts, but was generally not so good. 

thanoson

Hmm... I should probably post something. However, I am a snob and know it. I'm not ashamed. I do have my views and opinions. I do believe my taste in things is slightly above others. Why? I don't know. Maybe how I was raised. Though, my mom did raise me well. Hmm... I think I'll look into that.
Long live Slaanesh, Prince of Pain!!!

BentonGrey

Right Stumpy, I agree that there is undue heat here.  Thank you for a well reasoned post with a number of excellent points.

Exactly Talavar.  If you don't think the statement above applies to you...then maybe it doesn't!  Neither he nor I said that EVERYONE who liked the movie is settling.  

I'll post more later when I can phrase it properly.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

BWPS

Quote from: thanoson on July 09, 2009, 04:07:39 AM
I do believe my taste in things is slightly above others.
So does everyone else. How can you judge how good someone else's taste is except by simply comparing it to your own? That's why saying things like "in my opinion" is really just a waste of words used to keep people who don't understand that anything that isn't necessarily a fact is an opinion. I can be mean and yell at people for liking terrible (in my opinion  :P) movies or music or whatever but that won't stop them from liking Transformers 2 or R&B/rap/country/metal. I just noticed that Transformers 2 was a huge, long, depressing, disappointing waste of time and thought I should warn people who want to see it because they liked Transformers 1 because I really liked the first one and this evil satan of a crappy movie put a black spot on my heart and it hasn't beat the same since.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

Jakew

I enjoyed Hudson Hawk. Also, Ice Pirates.

There. I said it.

Verfall

Quote from: BWPS on July 09, 2009, 04:22:03 AM
Quote from: thanoson on July 09, 2009, 04:07:39 AM
I do believe my taste in things is slightly above others.
So does everyone else. How can you judge how good someone else's taste is except by simply comparing it to your own? That's why saying things like "in my opinion" is really just a waste of words used to keep people who don't understand that anything that isn't necessarily a fact is an opinion. I can be mean and yell at people for liking terrible (in my opinion  :P) movies or music or whatever but that won't stop them from liking Transformers 2 or R&B/rap/country/metal. I just noticed that Transformers 2 was a huge, long, depressing, disappointing waste of time and thought I should warn people who want to see it because they liked Transformers 1 because I really liked the first one and this evil satan of a crappy movie put a black spot on my heart and it hasn't beat the same since.

Ya know, the more BWPS posts I read, the more I'm confused. Do you like anything? Anything at all? Cause the negativity you throw out is staggering at times.

Just utterly staggering.
"My word and world holds ground and is real
Your word is like floods of poisoned water
A language spoken with spit from different tongues
You can never corrupt me again"

Ares_God_of_War

"That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange eons even death may die."

UnfluffyBunny

Quote from: Verfall on July 09, 2009, 06:22:18 AM
Ya know, the more BWPS posts I read, the more I'm confused. Do you like anything? Anything at all? Cause the negativity you throw out is staggering at times.
Just utterly staggering.

I get left 4 dead flashbacks....
"Is there anything you dont hate?"
"Vests... I dont hate vests.."

thanoson

I enjoyed Showgirls and Reform school girls. Showgirls because it was a great comedy. Reform School Girls because Wendy O Williams from the plasmatics was supposed to be a teenager.
Long live Slaanesh, Prince of Pain!!!

BentonGrey

Quote from: Jakew on July 09, 2009, 05:03:04 AM
I enjoyed Hudson Hawk. Also, Ice Pirates.

There. I said it.

Hey, Ice Pirates was a great movie....GREAT.... ;)
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

BWPS

Quote from: Ares_God_of_War on July 09, 2009, 06:55:59 AM
He likes the Misadventures of Flapjack
It's true, I love it.

Quote
Ya know, the more BWPS posts I read, the more I'm confused. Do you like anything? Anything at all? Cause the negativity you throw out is staggering at times.

Just utterly staggering.
I like more things than I hate except maybe when it comes to music. Maybe you just don't notice my positive posts because they're less noticeable or maybe you've only read this thread which is about how much I hate Transformers 2. I liked every major action movie that came out last year, even Hancock and Indy4. Even Max Payne and Doomsday I liked. I liked Transformers 1. I like most video games. I do like many things and I don't think I hesitate to say so. I'm sorry if my negativity is staggering, I guess. But this movie was the worst I've seen and I really think it deserves it. Also, I just nerd out on things and over exaggerate.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.