DC Comics Reboot

[oldmanwinters]

Didn't Dr. Fate wear the black & gold in the Young Justice cartoon?

[daglob]

Color-wise, it looks good, but it's awful busy.

[Deaths Jester]

I must say it's a good idea...specially the fact that they added more Egyptian-based symbolism to the outfit, thus tying him more to his origin and all.

[daglob]

I just got hit with an idea: Dr. Moonknight.

Maybe it's the flu...

[cmdrkoenig67]

Dr Fate's been taking clothes from Donna Troy's closet? 

Dana

[Podmark]

Upcoming Batman Inc spoilers:

Spoiler

The New York Times revealed the (much speculated) death of Damian Wayne, aka Robin . I'm definitely sad to hear this. I didn't really care much about Damian when he first debuted but once I started to read books with him I quickly started to love him. I consider the character one of the best creations of the past several years. I'll definitely miss him (assuming he stays dead).

While I'm sad to see him go I am happy to see Morrison complete his story. I've thoroughly enjoyed his Batman work.

RIP Damian Wayne, your time was far too short. Long live the (likely) reign of Harper Row.

I don't talk much about the DC books I buy so here I go:

I'm largely disappointed in DC's line. I find their reboot very half-assed and there isn't much that I care about. I'm finally dropping Superboy. I didn't have a problem with this version baring little resemblance to the last version, but the book has lacked direction and gotten progressively less interesting. I'm still picking up Teen Titans and Justice League and they've been okay. I picked up the first issue of JLA and that was decent.

The real gems of the DC line (of the books I've read) are Batman by Scott Synder and Batman Incorporated by Grant Morrison. I absolutely recommend both of them. The Joker storyline in Batman was pretty gripping.

[Shogunn2517]

Not to interrupt any current conversations, but I was just recently taking a gander at some of DCs New 52 books in a local shop and like many of you found myself frustrated at their odd attempt at a reboot.  I never understood why they wanted to do it in thei first place.  It didn't make sense to me then. I've ignored it over the last 18 months.  I come to this thread for the first time and see opinions changed very little from where many of you were at the beginning of the thread.  And for those who have changed their opinion, it isn't a positive change.

I mean it made sense to do a reboot with the original crisis and for the most part it worked.  It wasn't a wholesale reboot.  It was for some, but for histories that weren't rebooted, we got some really awesome back stories that's has become a part of literally and cinematic history. That's what we had and we lived with it.  Some characters got some rewired yet weird new characicterizations(Superman's origin, the mess made of Hawkman/Hawkgirl/Hawkwoman) but even those were retooled in successive reboots, which weren't real reboots, just altered histories.

That's not the New 52.  It lost me.  Not simply out of interest, but from confusion.  I still really can't make heads or tails of what was rebooted(and why) and what wasn't and how the square the two.  If they wanted to do a reboot, they should have did a full one and not just pick and choose.  Just made a convoluted continuity MUCH more convoluted and confusing.  They seriously should have kept the original runs.  At this rate, I don't even need to convince anyone of a gaurantee of yet another reboot.  That's like Peyton Manning guaranteeing a pass completion.

I can't even imagine what told them this was a good idea.

Just my two cent rant.  Sorry.

[Panther_Gunn]

I can't even imagine what told them this was a good idea.

I'll take a stab at that.  Two words -- an accountant.   

[bat1987]

They needed a sale boost which reboot provided at the time. They needed something to get the people to buy comics again. And nowadays its hard to get that with just good writting, u need something like reboot to grab media attention.

On the other hand tittles like Batman and Green Lantern were good sellers pre New52 so they didn't want to change much. They made a mess of things, made some unnecessary changes etc. But they increased the sales which was their goal, the reboot affected comic sales in general not just DC.
So, its just how things are nowadays, u need something like New52 or Marvel NOW! to grab people's attention, and if it sells, both companies will do reboots and renumberings.

As for the quality of the stories, some are good some are bad. Batman line of books is really good right now, there is something for everyone. WW is amusing, and I like Earth 2. Heard good things about Swamp Thing and Animal Man. But I don't like what they did to Superman, Teen Titans etc.

[Cyber Burn]

I just got hit with an idea: Dr. Moonknight.

Maybe it's the flu...

I wouldn't mind seeing that.

[murs47]

Upcoming Batman Inc spoilers:

Spoiler

The New York Times revealed the (much speculated) death of Damian Wayne, aka Robin . I'm definitely sad to hear this. I didn't really care much about Damian when he first debuted but once I started to read books with him I quickly started to love him. I consider the character one of the best creations of the past several years. I'll definitely miss him (assuming he stays dead).

While I'm sad to see him go I am happy to see Morrison complete his story. I've thoroughly enjoyed his Batman work.

RIP Damian Wayne, your time was far too short. Long live the (likely) reign of Harper Row.

What an absolute terrible decision. It seems so difficult to create a new character that people gravitate towards in the Marvel and DC universe. But yeah, let's kill them off. *eye roll*

[thalaw2]

Agreed....a true waste.  I didn't like the character much but I hate the direction this story is going and I don't see anything coming out of it that hasn't been done before.....possibly better...with the same main character.

[BentonGrey]

Urg...DC continues to disappoint. 

You know, I'm still getting Flash, Justice League, and Aquaman, but I'm pretty ready to cancel everything but Aquaman, which has at least kept my interest.  The Atlantis attacks storyline in JL has been entertaining, but as always with these new DC books, I feel as if each issue is missing a few pages of story and development.  It's just hard to justify the expense of these books, which, even when they are decent I always find myself describing with a caveat.  "Well, Justice League was pretty good, but..."  This dilemma is thrown into even sharper focus by the incredible quality of the rest of the books I'm buying.  I read TMNT or Atomic Robo, and I am always thoroughly impressed by their quality.  I'm simply never disappointed, and I can't wait for each following issue.  Then there is the revived Larry Hama G.I. JOE book, in which every single new issue is better than the last.  These other books I'm buying, their every outing ranks among the finest comics I've read, and they just constantly reflect the poverty of storytelling that exists in the DC books on my list.  I may love the characters, but I think more and more that I can do without the current broken attempt to tell their stories.

I think that I'm going to cancel Justice League as soon as the Atlantis crossover is finished (though it may already be over, as I'm behind thanks to my comics being shipped to me from my old shop once they reach a certain value). 

[bat1987]

Ok something is seriously wrong in DC

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44383

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=44391

Both Diggle and Failkov exit the books before first issues of their runs have hit stands! I mean WTH? This is ridicilous...

[detourne_me]

Yeah, I think DC has screwed the pooch pretty badly lately.  They've already done the reboot thing, so they can't rely upon the "Ultimates" rebound that Marvel had in the late nineties.
I honestly can't think of a single way out of this for them aside from scrapping continuity altogether and going full anthology route,  which wouldn't be that bad.

It would require relinquishing almost all editorial oversight, switching to a trade format for a while (Let Batman: Year Zero test the waters) put out self contained Batwoman, Wonder Woman, and Green Lantern stories that could easily be collected (BUT KEEP THEM WITHIN THE MAIN SERIES'), and then TRY to sort out the mess with Superman.

What is key is keeping the current numbering system,  renumbering now would be like showing the world that the nu52 relaunch was a disaster.  Think about how Batman Year One actually occurred within the normal batman series.. was it #472-476?   

[Midnite]

CYBORG SUPERMAN Making a New 52 Comeback?

[Midnite]

DC Introduces 'JOKER's Daughter?!'

[BentonGrey]

Well, I've cancelled everything but Aquaman.  If something teased in a recent issue of that book comes true, I'll be dropping it as well:

Spoiler

A new character was introduced and addressed Mera as his "wife."  If she was previously married, I'm out.  One of my favorite things about Aquaman is the relationship he has with Mera.  They're a happily married, monogamous couple, which is ridiculously rare in modern comics.  I don't need or want any more complication along that line.

[bat1987]

New 52 Cheshire and Bronze Tiger, seems like he's an actual Tiger now (or weretiger lol), I don't like it.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/prev_img.php?disp=img&pid=1368815912

[Glitch Girl]

James Robinson leaves Earth 2 and DC comics

Door continues to revolve.

[Starman]

That's weird ... didn't James Robinson also tease that he'd be doing a new Shade miniseries for DC?

[Silver Shocker]

From the latest issue of JLA, issue #4:

Spoiler

While infiltrating the Society of Super-Villains, Catwoman is shot in the head. Like, hardcore shot. Ted Cord shot. While robot duplicates are involved in the story (Professor Ivo is one of the villains in the book), there's a possible out that Selina's been swapped out for a robot. Plus I was under the impression she still has a ongoing solo book, so I would assume this is a fake out. Still, holy violence against women, Batman! (Well said, Robin!)

Also in that issue, we get the new 52 introduction of one Dr. Arthur Light, now a well-meaning scientist helping Amanda Waller and Steve Trevor's JLA. At the end of the issue it appears the bad guys are going to give him his classic powers and he will "become" Dr. Light.

Lastly, in a backup strip we are told J'onn Jonzz' new origin.  In this version, he gains his psychological aversion to fire from guilt. His people died in a fire while he away on a rite of passage so he could be their new leader after the old man died. Interesting new take on it; I don't really any strong opinion on it one way or the other.

[AfghanAnt]

Well, I've cancelled everything but Aquaman.  If something teased in a recent issue of that book comes true, I'll be dropping it as well:

Spoiler

A new character was introduced and addressed Mera as his "wife."  If she was previously married, I'm out.  One of my favorite things about Aquaman is the relationship he has with Mera.  They're a happily married, monogamous couple, which is ridiculously rare in modern comics.  I don't need or want any more complication along that line.

I disagree with the happily married and monogamous and that's not even a recent change. After Artie Jr died didn't Aquaman almost kill Mera and she later married his doppleganer and had another son? Also wasn't she sent to kill Arthur but later fell in love and defected from Xebel? And didn't Aquaman have a child while they were married with an Eskimo woman (Koyrak or something?) and didn't he later hook up with Dolphin which upset both Mera and Garth?

[BentonGrey]

Well, I've cancelled everything but Aquaman.  If something teased in a recent issue of that book comes true, I'll be dropping it as well:

Spoiler

A new character was introduced and addressed Mera as his "wife."  If she was previously married, I'm out.  One of my favorite things about Aquaman is the relationship he has with Mera.  They're a happily married, monogamous couple, which is ridiculously rare in modern comics.  I don't need or want any more complication along that line.

I disagree with the happily married and monogamous and that's not even a recent change. After Artie Jr died didn't Aquaman almost kill Mera and she later married his doppleganer and had another son? Also wasn't she sent to kill Arthur but later fell in love and defected from Xebel? And didn't Aquaman have a child while they were married with an Eskimo woman (Koyrak or something?) and didn't he later hook up with Dolphin which upset both Mera and Garth?

Most of which they actually did seem to fix with this new continuity, finally.  The death of Aquaman's son is one of the low points of modern comics, and it just about irreparably damaged the character.  No-one knew what to do with him for years.  All of the really awful stuff that came out of that, Koryak (I REALLY hate Koryak), Mera's madness, Dolphin, and the general complete scum-bag nature of 90's Aquaman owes its existence to that event.  Heck, it wasn't until Vol. 4 of Aquaman that they finally made a real stab at resolving things, but their efforts were torpedoed (hah!) by Aquaman being turned into a squid-faced guy...then being killed...gah, I really hate DC sometimes. 

No, thankfully it seems that the worst thing the New 52's version of Aquaman had going for it was that Mera was an enemy turned friend for love, and that's a whole lot better than murdered son and estranged madness.  While I think it was something of an unnecessary wrinkle, it didn't take anything away from their relationship.  In fact, it made their romance all the more grand, in that she not only gave up her throne, she gave up EVERYTHING, duty, honor, everything.

I really enjoyed those two not having ridiculous amounts of drama and baggage.  That was what the New 52 was supposed to do, and in the very singular case of Aquaman, it seemed like it actually hit the mark.  It was really nice see those two getting to be what the characters were meant to be, partners in every sense, and a new melodramatic twist like that to which they recently alluded, well that really rubs me the wrong way. 

[Tomato]

I *shrug* I doubt they're going to do anything like that this early in the book Benton... the way it reads to me is that, if there IS/WAS an actual marriage between Mera and this dude(and he could just be spouting something that he feels SHOULD have happened, not what DID. We don't know yet), it will have been an arranged one and she clearly didn't love him like she loves Arthur. I can understand/relate to the desire to have one singular relationship that reflects the sanctity of marriage, but let's see where things go before we start making judgements. Mera is too important to the book so far to have her relationship with Arthur suddenly break over some contrived plot point, and I feel like this whole story is gonna end up as more of an excuse to get her to go back to Atlantis with him instead of hanging out on the beach buying groceries.

That said though, I wanted to throw a bit of personal perspective into the mix in case it IS a real marriage, arranged or otherwise:

Spoiler

Benton, what you need to understand about me is that, out of anyone on this board, I am probably the one who best understands where you're coming from in terms of marriage being a union between two people. I made a decision a long time ago that I would either find someone to spend the rest of my life with, or I would just stay single.

However, the reason I did that is because of my dad. When he was 18, he was seduced by a woman much more experienced then he was, ended up getting her pregnant, and, having been raised on tales of superheroes, did the honorable thing and supported her. And she took advantage of that, draining him of everything he held dear... including making him throw away every comic he owned because it didn't fit in her little perfect world. Comics that, today, would probably pay for every college bill I have. Eventually though, he had enough, and they finally divorced a few year later.

Eventually though, my dad met my mom. At the time, he was training to be an Arabic linguist for the Army, and she was studying to be a Hebrew linguist for the Air Force. The two married, and even over 25 years later they remain a happy, loving couple. I have never once, in 25 years, seen them really FIGHT. Small petty stuff sure, but nowhere near the same level as arguments I've seen from even close-knit families. They're the reason I refuse to settle for anything less than what they have, because I KNOW it exists.

What my parents have is amazing, and it is not less so because it's technically my dad's second marriage. So that's why, regardless of how this plays out, this silly plot twist doesn't bother me... as long as Mera and Arthur love each other, their marriage is still the valid one.

[BentonGrey]

To be clear, I'm by no means giving up on the book yet, but I meant that if this turns into something tawdry and melodramatic, I'm going to give it up.  I certainly hope you're right, 'Mato, but I'm glad you see my point. 

Spoiler

I understand where you're coming from, 'Mato.  I've often pondered on the nature of love and the implications of marriage in situations like that.  My wife's parents went through something similar, though with less clear villany, and her mother ended up with a man who is obviously perfect for her and was a fantastic father to my Lady Grey to boot.  There are moral questions involved that make me wonder, but in the end it is obvious that things are better this way than the other. 

That's just my point, though.  The world is full of that type of story, and the examples thereof are, if nothing else, sad in the waste and strife that they offer before their happy endings, even if they do end with bliss.  I read comics, as I've stated before, not to see the flaws of the real world represented in bright colors, but to see those flaws smoothed over in a more heroic and idealistic setting.  I want one relationship in comics that is spared that level of complication and strife, which I think you understand.  For my part, I'm a hopeless romantic at heart, and a true believe in true love.  It definitely exists, my friend.  I've found it with Lady Grey, and I'm sure you will too.

[bat1987]

http://www.buzzfeed.com/awesomer/dan-didio-and-jim-lee-talk-dcs-september-event-villain-month

Seems that its all about events and gimmick covers these days lol, but this does sound interesting

Oh btw loving how bizzarro looks.

[Amazo Version 2.2]

i remeber all of the old gimmick covers from back in the day, they just seemed like wallet breakers to me. i would rather see a good story that holds my attention than to see a gimmick cover that  is going to add to my expenses.

[BentonGrey]

i remeber all of the old gimmick covers from back in the day, they just seemed like wallet breakers to me. i would rather see a good story that holds my attention than to see a gimmick cover that  is going to add to my expenses.

Heh, unfortunately the latter is more likely than the former.

[Amazo Version 2.2]

too true, my friend.