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DC Comics Reboot

Started by B A D, August 10, 2011, 04:50:53 PM

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Glitch Girl

IMO, they flinched more at the "marriage" part than the "gay" part, but who knows?

Does anymore remember hearing anything about how things were at Marvel when Bob Harass was in charge there?  I gotta wonder if there are any similarities.

Also a record of the new 52 departures which really illustrate that things are not healthy in this company if I'm any judge.  Like Dr.Mike, I used to love the universe, but now it's just a mess.
-Glitch Girl

"Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters." - Greg Rucka

bat1987

Dear lord, looks like a mess now that you look at it as a whole.

The only DC decision editorial wise I can get behind is the Diggle departure. From various reports that I read he had an "idea" of Superman loosing an arm and strugling with that.
If that is true I say good riddance. As for everything else, its sad, for the lack of better words.

DrMike2000

Wow! Superman losing an arm sounds like a bundle of laughs. I thought that was Reed Richard's schtick - more recently in Fantastic Four he had trouble with one of his arms, and I believe back in the 70's he lost the ability to stretch one of his arms. I hated that storyline as a kid. :)

That's a rather sorry looking list there, Glitch Girl. It really makes me think back to reading 13 comics a week for a month, when the New 52 kicked off, and feeling my heart sink a little with pretty much every one of them. I bought all the #1's and was kind of amazed just how few of them grabbed me, no matter how much I wanted to like them.

I hope this is just part of the natural cycle of things. The core of these characters aren't going anywhere, and can hopefully be higher quality again in the future under better management and writers and artists with free-er reign and clearer directions.
Stranger Than Fiction:
The Strangers, Tales of the Navigator and Freedom Force X
www.fundamentzero.com

Cyber Burn

Quote from: DrMike2000 on September 09, 2013, 02:07:05 AM
Wow! Superman losing an arm sounds like a bundle of laughs. I thought that was Reed Richard's schtick - more recently in Fantastic Four he had trouble with one of his arms, and I believe back in the 70's he lost the ability to stretch one of his arms. I hated that storyline as a kid. :)

That's a rather sorry looking list there, Glitch Girl. It really makes me think back to reading 13 comics a week for a month, when the New 52 kicked off, and feeling my heart sink a little with pretty much every one of them. I bought all the #1's and was kind of amazed just how few of them grabbed me, no matter how much I wanted to like them.

I hope this is just part of the natural cycle of things. The core of these characters aren't going anywhere, and can hopefully be higher quality again in the future under better management and writers and artists with free-er reign and clearer directions.

I have to admit DrMike, I also bought almost all of the #1 Issues hoping that something would garner my interest, but they pretty much all left a bad taste in my mouth.

Glitch Girl

#514
For monday morning face-palm:

Aquaman and Mera aren't Married... wait, what?

Related:
http://www.themarysue.com/dc-comics-no-marriage/
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/07/aquaman-is-not-married-to-mera-in-the-new-52/
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/09/08/dc-comics-and-the-war-against-marriage-comics-batwoman-aquaman/
QuoteAquaman and Mera were no longer married in New 52 continuity. And that Geoff Johns had very carefully written them in Aquaman and Justice League as if they were still married but had avoided any mention of that fact, or anyone actually referring to them as "husband" or "wife" of the other.

Honestly, the whole nu52 feels like a make-it-up-as-you-go-along fubar.  No one knows what's going on, there are editorial edicts that make absolutely no sense, there's talent turnover faster than a carnival ride... go home DC brass, you're drunk.





-Glitch Girl

"Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters." - Greg Rucka

BentonGrey

I...oh come ON!  Alright, I'm writing an ugly letter this afternoon.  That much is certain.  If DC doesn't backpedal within the next week, I'm cancelling my last DC book, Aquaman.  I'm sick of this stuff.  We've got basically one married superhero, and heaven forbid he do something that fits in with traditional morality.  How dare he not just be shacking up!  That's not young or hip enough.  No one in America cares about marriage vows or believes that anything like that is important.  No, no, don't be silly!  Well, my growing disgust has reached an impressive new height.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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bat1987

Wouldn't hold my breath Benton, the big 2 think that marriage makes heroes old and unrelatable, lol. Not sure why married=old and boring in the eyes of the publishers...

BentonGrey

Quote from: bat1987 on September 09, 2013, 07:29:41 PM
Wouldn't hold my breath Benton, the big 2 think that marriage makes heroes old and unrelatable, lol. Not sure why married=old and boring in the eyes of the publishers...

I'm not holding my breath.  I'm girding myself to drop a book I'm actually moderately fond of on moral grounds.  I can't in good conscience support DC anymore.  As it was, they were straining the bounds of my tolerance, but this is definitely the last straw.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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bat1987

#518
Ye I get it. I myself dont let things like this get to me, there are gonna be retcons, marriages, divorces, deaths, ressurections etc. these are comics after all.

If at the end of the day I like the story and am having fun reading it I can overlook some things. But I do understand when people cant get past some things no matter how hard they try.

BentonGrey

At this point it's a moral issue for me.  I don't want to give my money to people that, by all accounts, not only don't share, but also actively oppose, my values. 
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Podmark

The Aquaman isn't married thing is pretty silly. If that's what they were always going for in the reboot they should have made that clear. Saying it now just makes it seem like they're trying to justify not allowing Batwoman to get married (which is probably the case).

I can understand publishers being averse to marrying off their characters. It's a significant change to a character's personal life and requires another character permanently become part of their regular cast. Also marriage moves characters one step closer to kids and retirement. Marvel and DC are focused on keeping their characters timeless so having them age like that is real problem. And because of the shared universe aspect of their comics if one character gets married it can affect age of all their other characters.
Ex. If Spider-Man started his crime fighting career before Franklin Richards was born, and Franklin now about 8 years old then Peter Parker has been Spider-Man for over 8 years. That can be problematic.

DC's reboot is just a mess. It's biggest problems are that it was never really a reboot, just a partial one that made everything confusing, and secondly there's no consistency.
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BentonGrey

That's true Pod, but it makes absolutely no freaking sense for characters who have been married for PRACTICALLY their entire history.  Aquaman has been married to Mera since 1964.  He was actually the first superhero to get married.  Think about that.  He was married before a good deal of comic characters were even created, before nearly all of the major events of comic history, and before most of us were born.  With the exception of a brief period where they were separated/divorced in the PAD run (yet another reason I hate it), they've ALWAYS been married.  This isn't true for any character other than Mr. Fantastic and Sue Storm, and even they took years and years to tie the knot.  Dissolving their marriage in the first place is asinine, and even more so after presenting them AS a married couple for 23 issues of their new continuity.  Add to that the very clear nature of their relationship, and it just comes off as a rejection of marriage itself.  Whatever their intentions, the impression is downright appalling.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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Podmark

#522
I agree with you Benton. The way they are saying that Aquaman was never married in this new continuity is just ridiculous. I've never read the new series myself but from all I've heard they were married. If DC wanted Aquaman to not be married then the start of the reboot was their chance, just like Superman. Doing it now just breaks their existing narrative.

That said I will be curious to see how far this actually goes. Sometimes comments at cons like this don't actually amount to much in the actual books.


Edit: In other news it seems Brian Buccellato and Francis Manapul are finishing their Flash run and moving to an upcoming DC series. I really love Manapul's art and he did a great Flash. I'll be curious what he does next.
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bat1987

Quote from: BentonGrey on September 09, 2013, 08:03:51 PM
At this point it's a moral issue for me.  I don't want to give my money to people that, by all accounts, not only don't share, but also actively oppose, my values.

Fair enough.

Tomato

All I can think to do at this point is facepalm. I haven't read any DC books in the last few months, but even the slightest chance of me picking up another DC comic is shot to hell now. Good job Didio.

BentonGrey

Glad I'm not the only one, 'Mato.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Tomato

It's sad, because I started out really looking forward to the reboot (I was in the minority on it I know) but with every passing month now DC's been digging themselves into a larger and larger hole. Compare that with Marvel, who have gotten their dren together to the point where I am happily reading at least several "Core" books (Books like Uncanny Avengers and All New X-men) rather then just a few books that were too minor to be swept up in event madness.

DC... even with the Crime Syndicate around the corner, I don't think I can bring myself to even pirate any more dc books. I am so done with them, as a company, that I can't even bring myself to read stories about a team I started an entire blog about.

Starman

You can't even bring yourself to pirate any more DC books? How will the company survive?  ^_^

Deaths Jester

Well, I guess it's good I was never a DC comic supporter...course I'm now not a big Marvel Supporter like I used to be.
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

BentonGrey

It's so sad, because this whole plan had tons of potential...though they were determined to waste almost all of it from the earliest outset.  DC's schizophrenic approach to their world-building and storytelling has doomed whatever good ideas (like Aquaman) managed to leak through the fields of stupidity that surrounded their relaunch.

I like your picture there, 'Mato.  Apt.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Tomato

#530
Quote from: Starman on September 11, 2013, 11:43:57 AM
You can't even bring yourself to pirate any more DC books? How will the company survive?  ^_^

That didn't come off entirely as intended... what I meant was, I'm so disgusted I don't think I could bring myself to read anything they're putting out, even if it's just dling pirated copies (because really, there is no way I'm giving them ANY of my money after Didio's braindead comments).

Quote from: BentonGrey on September 11, 2013, 05:30:40 PM
It's so sad, because this whole plan had tons of potential...though they were determined to waste almost all of it from the earliest outset.  DC's schizophrenic approach to their world-building and storytelling has doomed whatever good ideas (like Aquaman) managed to leak through the fields of stupidity that surrounded their relaunch.

I like your picture there, 'Mato.  Apt.

Yeah, it'll probably stick around for awhile before I go back to something Tomato-related. The magnitude of how utterly asinine this whole thing is has me quite angry at Didio and at DC as a company.

(Speaking of Aquaman, if anyone here REALLY wants to see a rant, I made a huge one about his portrayal in flashpoint awhile back. It's oddly appropriate now)

DrMike2000

There's a nice write up by Brett White in his (btw very awesome) blog today on Comic Book Resources:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=47848

Basically he's just echoing the growing disenchantment with DC that I'm seeing around the net.
Stranger Than Fiction:
The Strangers, Tales of the Navigator and Freedom Force X
www.fundamentzero.com

AfghanAnt


DrMike2000

My pleasure, Ant. :)
I find Brett's blog to be an awesome wellspring of enthusiasm, even when he's criticising something.

Benton - nice rant there. I haven't seen Flashpoint, but did sit through a couple of the DC movie length cartoons recently, and found them turgid and overwrought.
Luckily, I got into The Brave and the Bold cartoons recently, which have been the  perfect antidote.


Stranger Than Fiction:
The Strangers, Tales of the Navigator and Freedom Force X
www.fundamentzero.com

deano_ue

ok this is what confuses me why are they against marriage and a gay one of this standard

and i stress right from the get go this idea is not something i agree with or share with such a simple mindedness. but its a lesbian couple you really think some narrow viewed arse didnt go hey its lesbians let them shack up with can sell that to 14 year old boys. i was always a marvel kid aside from batman and it was bruce timm that got me into dc. to watch them slide head first into a brick wall when the new 52 had so much potential

i didnt read batwoman but seeing the reviews and awards it was getting i'm amazed dc didnt just let them run with it. but then again these are the same people who have turned MOTU into the pms braindead conan hour, have gail simone fired over email only to rehire her due to they're shock at the outrage, cancel demon knights etc etc

and then there is stuff like synders batman and the idea of the forever evil arc that give them another week :(

Cyber Burn

I have to say that one of the minor things that has been bothering me in life is that I don't have the finances to maintain a monthly comics pull anymore. But realistically, from the sounds of things, I'm really better off for not having one. Disappointing.

Tomato

Quote from: DrMike2000 on September 17, 2013, 08:13:23 AM
Benton - nice rant there. I haven't seen Flashpoint, but did sit through a couple of the DC movie length cartoons recently, and found them turgid and overwrought.
Luckily, I got into The Brave and the Bold cartoons recently, which have been the  perfect antidote.

...

Quote from: TOMATO on September 12, 2013, 03:38:19 AM
(Speaking of Aquaman, if anyone here REALLY wants to see a rant, I made a huge one about his portrayal in flashpoint awhile back. It's oddly appropriate now)

BentonGrey

To be fair, if I had written it, it would have been even more awesome. ;)

Haha, really though, that was pretty well-written, 'Mato, and I have to say, I didn't realize what the source of the feud between Aquaman and Wonder Woman actually WAS.  That kills any interest I have in ever reading that story, because you are absolutely right.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Glitch Girl

-Glitch Girl

"Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters." - Greg Rucka

Starman

Sadly, I don't think I'm in the "biggest possible audience" they mention in that article. The New 52 comics I have enjoyed, like I, Vampire, Dial H, and Men of War, were all cancelled fairly quickly.