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DC Comics Reboot

Started by B A D, August 10, 2011, 04:50:53 PM

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SickAlice

#1560
I believe Levitation is
Spoiler
Samuel Lane

Tomato

Just read all of Young Justice because they have an earth 3 issue coming.

EARTH 3 YJ CHARACTERS YO!

SickAlice

Nope. I was totally wrong and wouldn't guessed that in a million years.

Silver Shocker

Dan Didio is no longer in charge of DC.

I'm seeing a lot of comic creators, who obviously have a conflict of interest, talking about what a great guy he is, while you have someone like Linkara, who has no such loyalty, willing to throw the book at him with expert aplomb. Rob Liefield (whose thrown some shade online many times in the past) also bashed him. And all I can do is once again say to quote The Wasp: It's about damn time.

I'm hearing people doomsay about how things are going to get worse going forward, but honestly I'm a bit skeptical about that myself.

Gail Simone tweeted that Didio took credit for the bad stuff, and let other creators take credit for the good stuff. Maybe that's true, but I don't personally believe it and Linkara says he's heard the exact opposite.

For those coming in late, or those who forgot (nevar forget) Didio's list of sins include:

-Wanting to kill Grayson at the end of Infinite Crisis.
-Hating the weekly series "52" and claiming the much-derided Countdown to Final Crisis was "52 done right" (it was not)
-Wouldn't let Stephanie Brown have a display case in the batcave after she (temporarily) died.
-During his run on Outsiders, he wrote a harsh real life critic into the comic and portrayed him in a less-than flattering light.
-A ban on (nearly) any appearances by Cassandra Cain and Stephanie Brown, going to far as to prevent the latter from even appearing in the Smallville comic continuation of all things (they shared a writer)
-Banning Kate Kane (Batwoman) and Renee Montoya from getting married, as well as Aquaman and Mera.
-Being rude people at conventions who suggested DC hire more women.

"Heroes shouldn't have happy personal lives. They are committed to being that person and committed to defending others at the sacrifice of their own personal interests... People in the Batfamily, their personal lives basically suck."
~Dan Didio."
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

kkhohoho

Don't forget maybe ****ing JG Jone's wife.

For those who've never heard of him, JG Jones was the artist who drew the first six issues of Final Crisis. He didn't draw the last one.

Apparantly there was a reason for that.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

SickAlice

I think much of it though they would be reluctant to say just has to do with an unstable time in the industry raising tensions. IDW having major problems for example and as a result we're seeing the big names who were working there or at Dynamite revolving back to Marvel and DC, something most of them said they would never do again and noted said while business was good. Else I don't take any of it personally, these people all have history with one another between the panels and who knows what drives those choices they make. Lastly in his case it was bound to happen. You don't stand for being top dog and shuffled into the sidelines when you work in the arts. He knows well he can just go across the street and get a job with higher accolades. Same as Bendis did more or less with his jump from Marvel to DC.

Silver Shocker

Quote from: kkhohoho on February 22, 2020, 05:42:02 PM
Don't forget maybe ****ing JG Jone's wife.

For those who've never heard of him, JG Jones was the artist who drew the first six issues of Final Crisis. He didn't draw the last one.

Apparantly there was a reason for that.

I've never heard that one! Wow, that's a thing. Yeah, I remember JG Jones, I read Final Crisis back in the day, and I do remember the art changing for it. That's interesting.

QuoteI think much of it though they would be reluctant to say just has to do with an unstable time in the industry raising tensions. IDW having major problems for example and as a result we're seeing the big names who were working there or at Dynamite revolving back to Marvel and DC, something most of them said they would never do again and noted said while business was good.

Yeah, that's kinda what I've read. Didio being let go apparently came from on high (WB) and they've been shuffling chairs in general lately. People speculate that whoever's put in charge will likely be a yes man who will play things safe and bland, which of course, doesn't sound terribly appealing.

Someone at Scans_daily put it really well: the guy who we may be getting in the future may be the kind of guy who would never approve Watchmen but would totally greenlit Before Watchmen. That's a pretty good analogy.

Personally I'm not super attached to DC right now anyway. I didn't like what Tom King did with Batman, Booster Gold or Wally West or what Bendis did with Superman (I've mentioned as much earlier in this thread) and now that Doomsday Clock is over and after dropping Shazam after delays and fill in artists, I wasn't buying any new DC books. I mostly buy the reprints, and honestly I like those better. See, I don't feel like I really need to read the new stuff. I've still got 52 and the Ostander Suicide Squad to finish, so I'm good for now.

As for IDW, yeah, we discussed that on this board a while back. I've not heard much lately but I don't really seek out that kinda information, I usually come across it by accident. But the Didio thing naturally made headlines.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

SickAlice

Mostly when you say things like loyalty. Thing is it's not real for any of us. We all are moral and upstanding and the masters of our own destiny when the fridge is stocked. When times are tough though and the budget is in the red, well, it's all about getting by. And most of the people that work in comics are the bread winners for their families, not just immediate either but paying their grandkids tutions and such. Like I said most won't admit it but that's most likely the real reason behind things right now given the low state of the industry and sales.

I hear ya about DC though in fact I feel the same about Marvel as well. Then again that's going rate whenever sales are down too, that is they try new things and a different take on their standard stuff to try and pull in sales, gimmicks as it were. Mostly in cases it becomes something I don't enjoy though sometimes a dynamic peeks through that's so refreshing I love it, like the current Hulk run for example. Else I'm tried and true Transformers and Ninja Turtles here, nice to see both are having good enough sales to warrant even more spin-offs for that matter. For DC and on topic I guess much of my look forward to stuff was all mini-series and all of em are wrapping, most recently Flash Forward so I don't know where I stand there? Maybe Justice League Dark is my go to but I really haven't given it much thought, too much real life stuff to tend to right now. At least that book is consistent. For now I don't have to worry about coming in and finding an all new issue #1 relaunch that's something entirely different from what I was following. For now. I guess that's the downside of enjoying a serial based media though. Part of the enjoyment is the continuation like any good soap opera but it has to switch up at some point in order for the artform itself to survive and thrive in the business world.

Also feel ya about TPB's. That's standard for me. Currently anything and everything Lady Death but mainly because I'm making a model for this site and need the reference material. Why not really though? If the new stuff doesn't trip your trigger read the stuff that does. Eitherway you're paying dollar and supporting the artists.

HarryTrotter

Hi,everyone.
Finished Batman Universe. Its pretty...okay. Batman is a total dick.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

I don't think I've ever even heard of Batman Universe.

QuoteBatman is a total dick.

Not a particularly uncommon characterization of Batman, really. Depending on your definition of the word "total" in the context of Batman.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

SS, unfortunately, that's become the standard; one of many things about modern comics I don't care for.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

GhostMachine

I blame it on Frank Miller. Batman is sort of a jerk through DKR and its follow ups, but you can understand why considering what he's gone through.....then you get All-Star Batman, which is a DKR prequel, and he's a world class jackass from the beginning.




BentonGrey

Gah, it makes perfect sense that All-Star Batman, which seems to be nearly universally derided, would somehow be influential.  Ha, I think the field is about that irrational.... :P
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

SickAlice

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2020, 06:05:17 PM
SS, unfortunately, that's become the standard; one of many things about modern comics I don't care for.

I think mostly that. There was a shift in the climate of the industry, what was this the late 80's I think? It was a brief era called the Grim And Gritty era. This is about when Azbats came in, Superman died, Spider-man would be beaten and bloody every issue, everyone had stupid huge guns and characters that did became the favorites as well Wolverine and characters that were a little more pure became "lame boy scouts" and eventually had to be hardened to go with the flow. Likewise the villains began murdering, raping and becoming more overall Hannibal Lectors. In Batman's case they didn't want to make him appear to have a lack of self-control thus the option was to make him more callous and blunt, something which was just way hammed up more than it needed to be and somehow got critical acclaim thus stuck. Imo I like a dry wit Batman better that can use heart to win a battle by just applying clarity and therapy. A guy who fights passionately for the right reason, to save people and not more because "this is the way the world works". I think the standard is going to change though myself. The real world is just a little too terrible and people are more sick of real violence and heartlessness than to be stimulated by the fantasy version of it. I know I personally can't stomach a shoot-out film the way I used to, heard too many gunshots in real life to want that as my form of relaxation and escapism. I'd rather watch a RomCom if it comes to that.

abenavides

Agree it started (or became popularized) with Frank Miller, but probably even earlier than All-Star Batman. goes back to Dark Knight Returns and Batman: Year 1.
That being said, those 2 were actually good (especially compare to All-Star Batman which is incomprehensible and basically a parody of Miller by Miller :)

Like many things that become popular, everybody apes it but often to lesser quality.

re: Batman - my Batman was Adams-Aparo era where he was buds with Superman and teamed up with everyone on Brave & The Bold (yeesh I'm old)
www.alexff.com
Creator of EZ Danger Room, EZFX, EZHero, The JLA Mod, The X Mod, Superhero TV, & famous Hero Recipes, coming up: New mods.

SickAlice

Tell me about it. I remember when signal boosting meant putting a crumpled ball of tin foil on something.

BentonGrey

Yeah, the 90s have much to answer for, ha!

Exactly, SA!

Quote from: abenavides on May 27, 2020, 06:11:15 PM
re: Batman - my Batman was Adams-Aparo era where he was buds with Superman and teamed up with everyone on Brave & The Bold (yeesh I'm old)

Haha, I'm not quite so old, but I sympathize.  I love a character with a bit more nuance and a bit more good in him. 

Darwin' Cooke's cover with the two of them having disarmed a bomb really captures what I want to see from them:
https://66.media.tumblr.com/de2dcd1837c7bd6ab4c14df6107e4df6/tumblr_nbr82lMFJM1qa6fdmo1_1280.jpg

There should be some warmth and humanity in these characters.  That's part of what makes Batman: TAS so perfect.  They have the Dark Avenger version, but he's still a good man, and he's not afraid to smile and laugh, on occasion. 
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Silver Shocker

Denny O'Neil has passed away.

One of the all-time greats. Someone online said he was the best Batman editor of all time and I'm inclined to agree. I remember really enjoying the Batman family of books while he was editor.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Ohh, that's a real loss.  I've read a lot of his work as I moved through the DC Bronze Age, and while it sometimes hasn't aged well, it was obvious how creative and influential he was.  He was a real pioneer and a fantastic storyteller who tried to edify his audience as well as entertain.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

SickAlice

Not familiar. Though if it isn't before their time I'm usually not depressed about such news. I see people like that as people who lived their dreams to the fullest thus "lived" as opposed to "died" if that makes any sense. The tragedy to me is when people who die who never got the chance to live.

Else nothing to say on topic, I'll pretty much concede that lately I am just happy to have new comics at all, so much that I can't find myself even critiquing their merits.

abenavides

Sorry to hear about this. O'Neill was one of the great comics writers. He co-created Ra's Al Ghul, Talia,  the League of Assassins, etc. He did the famous (infamous?) Speedy on drugs storyline with Neal Adams, very ground-breaking for the time. He did Superman vs Muhammed Ali (which I had as a kid). He had a good run on The Question. Quite influential and was even a teacher for a while at NY's School of Visual Arts (which my daughter may attend next year). Thx for everything, Denny.
www.alexff.com
Creator of EZ Danger Room, EZFX, EZHero, The JLA Mod, The X Mod, Superhero TV, & famous Hero Recipes, coming up: New mods.

HarryTrotter

By Gawd,Bob Harras (along with plenty of others) was fired. Maybe there is still some hope for DC comics.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

GhostMachine

Its not a good sign at all. The company is being gutted. And sadly there's an expectation that Marvel will do the same in the next few months.

DC might stop losing readers if they would quit doing reboots every time an EIC considers the idea.



HarryTrotter

It was high time for some cleanup. And we can only hope everyone else follows suit.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#1584
Haven't checked here in a while:

QuoteHe did Superman vs Muhammed Ali (which I had as a kid).

Oh yeah, I read that back in the day myself. Really liked it! Ideal version of itself for sure. Surprisingly well thought out for such a silly premise.  :thumbup:

As for the newer posts. I've been reading a few articles lately. DC's being undergoing some MASSIVE shakeups lately, including mass layoffs, billions of dollars in debt, and AT&T breaking out the katana to start cutting some bizness.

DC Universe streaming service, in a move that should surprise noone, is getting ruthlessly cannibalized by HBO Max and anything not called Stargirl (moving to CW, also unsurpisingly) that doesn't get cancelled (the Harley Quinn animated show hasn't been picked up for a second season yet, last I heard) will apparently migrate over there. And lastly, AT&T is about to sell Crunchyroll to Sony, a move that almost makes me want to cry in the shower giving how the American anime industry has been utterly eating itself to death after Sony bought Funimation.

To quote Linkara of Atop the Fourth Wall: "We live in Hell. And it's soooo stupid."
------------------------------------------
In other, more pleasant news, I recently read the legendary Teen Titans arc "The Judas Contract" for the very first time. Does it live up to the hype? Ehhhh....not really. It's pretty good, but not quite a legend in my jaded world-weary eyes. I imagine it probably would blown the doors off back in the day. Roughly half of it feels like Marv Wolfman's pitch for a Deathstroke spin-off series (which he got to make, so mission accomplished). The debut of Nightwing kinda gets lost in the proceedings and Dick Grayson kinda just bumbles around until he and Jericho find the plot. To my vindication, the arc also explicitly states in no uncertain terms that Deathstroke can't take Donna Troy in a straight fight, meaning the live action Titans tv show did in fact depower Wonder Girl considerably.

While I'm talking about the New Teen Titans, Brother Blood is SUCH a boring villain. One of Wolfman and/or Perez pointed out he's positively tame by modern standards (and he pretty much is) but at the time was super edgy and lurid but all I'm thinking is "When the hell is this idiot gonna die" and "How is he any threat to the Titans? I haven't seen a villain who's powerset is this poorly defined since Apocalypse and Mr. Sinister"
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

SickAlice

Personally I agree that they're being gutted in fact they all will. The industry is in a weird place, most industries are for that matter and this type of thing is surfacing across the board. Pandemic, economy, whatever state of affairs you want to name here. I learned to roll with it at some point, seems it's all one can do else read old trades.

Tomato

Quote from: Silver Shocker on August 21, 2020, 12:38:14 PM
DC Universe streaming service, in a move that should surprise noone, is getting ruthlessly cannibalized by HBO Max and anything not called Stargirl (moving to CW, also unsurpisingly) that doesn't get cancelled (the Harley Quinn animated show hasn't been picked up for a second season yet, last I heard) will apparently migrate over there.


Harley Quinn season 2 is finished already, season 3 being picked up for HBO Max was the first major warning sign that DCU was doomed. Personally, I feel like it was inevitable (it didn't make any sense to split their content like that) but I still kind of hope DC Universe will get restructured as DC's answer to Marvel Unlimited, since that was a major strength of the service anyway.

That said, I'm just salty that DC Direct got closed, so I haven't paid terribly much attention to DC since.

GhostMachine

What I hate, is that if I want to watch HBO Max, I have to do it on my computer. We're supposed to get it free as part of our Xfinity subscription, but my phone is through Safelink (ie, basic smartphone without much storage) and my tablet is a Kindle. You can't download HBO Max on a Kindle yet.

(At least I do get Peacock free, but there's not much on there that I want to watch.)

HarryTrotter

They couldnt sell a streaming service during a global pandemic. When people had nothing else to do but watch stuff. Tiger King went viral,people.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Tomato

Yes and no. The issue is, because of that same pandemic, there's only so much money the average (unemployed) person could justify on subscriptions... and DC Universe was, unfortunately, just not suited for it. Between Netflix, Hulu, Disney+, Crunchyroll, and other sites, the video content on DCU was kinda pitiful. A few series done relatively cheaply spread out over months (as opposed to Netflix's "release and binge" schedule), a handful of Direct to DVD animated films (which they rotated in and out) and a backlog of 10-40 year old tv shows.

On top of that, all the content was aimed at one type of fanbase, and they split even that fanbase since Watchmen (which got more buzz online than any of the DC shows on DCU) and other DC shows were/are being made exclusive for HBO Max, plus all the contemporary CW shows being exclusive to their awful site. HBO Max in particular is just a better video platform with a better video library. If they move what's on DCU over, I'd switch in a heartbeat.

Really, the only advantage to DCU is... DC Comics. But that's never been marketed properly. Again, I point to Marvel Unlimited... DC absolutely has the backlog to justify a similar model to Marvel's, potentially even more-so because of how long DC has been making comics... but all I ever heard about was the video stuff. I didn't even know DCU had the comic backlog until months into being subscribed. No, instead everything was "Oh, look at these shows we're making" or "If you're subscribed you can BUY exclusive swag."

DCU should be focused on taking over that market, on competing on that footing, rather than trying to be Netflix lite. They've failed to do that so far, and people had better subscriptions to spend their money on.