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Author Topic: Young Justice  (Read 11625 times)

Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2012, 05:29:05 PM »
Some of the early stuff is just kinda passable (a few stories about what Superboy did during the gap in episode 1, a few obligatory origin issues, etc), but starting with Issue #7 the writing for the book was taken over by Greg Weisman (One of the show's actual creative heads and creator of several of my favorite TV shows). From that issue forward, the comic weaves in and out of the show... going into how Artemis was there during the Amazo incident, what Robin was doing with Batman during the Dr Fate incident, expanding on why Kaldur was at fault for the Clayface debacle (and why Artemis was absent during it).

In short, yes, it is just as good. It's obviously well behind the show now (chronologically the current arc takes place September 6th, or between episodes 9 and 10) but I'm sure it'll catch up when CN inevitably delays the show for another year and a half.

Offline Talavar

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2012, 05:44:39 PM »
I'm with Benton on this - Young Justice is good; JLU was great.  Those "bad ideas" you mention, Tomato, don't bother me at all (Supergirl had an evil clone they used to wink at Power Girl - Power Girl wasn't an evil clone; Captain Atom had to make a hard choice between loyalty to his country/military and the Justice League), but Young Justice occasionally has characters that act so boneheadedly, I'm continually surprised when the show just lets those actions pass (Dr. Fate and his abduction/slavery spring to mind) as if they're okay/sensible. 

On a more sensory level, I generally prefer the character designs on Young Justice, and both have pretty good animation quality generally (though Young Justice has yet to have any real wowers of animation like a handful of later JLU episodes).  Finally we come to voice acting, where JLU laps Young Justice a few dozen times.  The main cast of both shows is/was pretty great (special shout-out for Kevin Conroy's Batman), but when it comes to villains & guest stars, JLU is so far ahead it's not even a comparison: Mark Hamil's Joker, Clancy Brown's Luthor, JLU's Vandal Savage, their Amanda Waller; I've yet to hear a villain voice actor on Young Justice really impress me, and some make me cringe.

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2012, 05:56:38 PM »
Actually, I personally like YJ a lot more then I ever liked JLU... JLU had some great moments don't get me wrong, but there was an awful lot of random nonsense in the stories because the writers didn't really nail down what they were doing from episode to episode. As a result, while JLU had a lot of good stories, there were also some very bad ideas in there too (Powergirl being demoted to Supergirl's evil clone, Captain Atom's betrayal, etc.) But there isn't really any story or character from either the show OR the comic tie-in (Seriously, if you haven't read it yet, GO PICK IT UP) that I don't think adds to the narrative.

Ha, well 'Mato, I pretty strongly disagree.  It's funny, the examples you bring up as being 'random nonsense' I found really entertaining and interesting.  The episodes surrounding Powergirl's reveal and Captain Atom taking sides are some of my all-time favorites.  See, one of the things that JLU did that appealed to me so much was that they created a universe that flowed together and 'made sense' in a way that the comics just don't.  Everything fit, everything worked, and the result was a series of really compelling stories.  If you've ever read the descriptions and write-ups I've done about the DCUG, you'll find that it is just such a re-imagining that I was trying to accomplish in my little project.  That's what JLU has over YJ, a world that really comes together and works towards the show's goals.  That isn't necessarily a knock on Young Justice, but it is, I think, that quality that I was unable to identify earlier.  I think this comes from a difference in the overall concepts of the shows themselves.  JLU was about the League, and the DC Universe at large.  The world was the story as much as the characters.  YJ is a smaller story, though they are expanding it.  It's about this small group of characters moving through this larger world, but the world itself is left mostly sketchy at the margins.  I like a great deal of what they've done, and I enjoy the depth of comic influence and reference in the stories they've told, but I'm often left thinking, 'that's great, but I'd rather hear the story of the League and the larger drama unfolding.'  So, in that sense, I suppose it is just a matter of taste that I choose the one over the other.

In the end, however, I will always defend the quality of the writing in JLU over that in this show.  This one is good, don't get me wrong, and the writing is probably better than that in the Avengers, and certainly better than that of the other superhero shows we've seen since the Timmverse's swan song, but to compare these two is to illustrate the difference between good and great.  The Cadmus stories, the Thanagarian Invasion, and so many other arcs produced utterly moving and compelling episodes like "For the Man Who Has Everything," "Wake the Dead," and even those very episodes you called nonsense, like "Question Authority."  I've just never felt that sublime joy or sadness that JLU so often evoked when watching Young Justice.  It is only just getting started, and we all know that JLU didn't start out as good as it became, so perhaps the writing will reach that level as they go on.

:EDIT: Ahh, and Talavar managed to hit something else quite on the head that I was struggling to articulate (and failing to articulate entirely).  Yeah, I like the design style of YJ much better than the exaggerated Timmverse designs, though I really hate several of YJ's actual character design, like their Riddler.  The animations itself, however, was, on the whole, much more impressive in JLU.  However, Tal's point about the voice acting is perhaps one of the most pertinent.  It is the incredible talent of the voice cast that brought those equally incredible episodes to life.  The villains DEFINITELY had a lot more personality and charisma, and a good part of that is thanks to their voice actors.  Let's face it, a story is only as good as its villains. ^_^
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 06:01:04 PM by BentonGrey »
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Offline Previsionary

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2012, 05:57:04 PM »
So, is there a reason you guys are comparing the first season of YJ to the final seasons of Justice League or did that just happen at the spur of the moment? Wouldn't the better comparison be to compare JL (season 1) to YJ (season 1), i.e., both shows in their infancies.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2012, 06:01:42 PM »
I actually mentioned that Prev.  Why don't you pay attention, hmm? :P
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Offline oldmanwinters

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2012, 06:15:06 PM »
I've been pleasantly surprised by YJ over the last couple of years.  I really commend Weisman & crew for giving us a show that shows us two different leagues of DC superhero shows.  It should be an epic finale next week.

Much has been said about the comparisons between Weisman's YJ and DCAU's Justice League/JLU.  The fact that the conversation can even be had is a credit to the quality of YJ.  In some ways, YJ exceeds its predecessor, mostly notably with the much better use of CGI, the Achilles Heel of JLU.

YJ has been more ambitious with its season long story arc than JL, which only really had about 3 major season arcs (Thangarian invasion in Season 2, Cadmus/Luther plot in JLU Season 2, and the Legion of Doom in JLU Season 3).  Not everybody prefers the episodic, seemingly self-contained stories in the early season of Justice League when compared to the "Master Plan" philosophy that has tied together the first season of YJ.

However, I cannot speak of many episodes of YJ that actually appealed to me on the basis of the immediate story; my interest has more been "I wonder where they're going with this plot thread?"  It keeps me tuning in next week, but it doesn't necessarily give me a sense of satisfaction and resolution while watching the specific episode.  The notable exception for me was the recent Kid-Flash race-against-time episode, "Coldhearted."  That was probably my favorite memory of the season, on account of how personal the story was for KF; it was a good reminder that sometimes the most important battles aren't fought in the skies amongst gods but on the ground among the seemingly insignificant arenas.

So, to sum it up, Justice League is still the Top Dog of DC Animation, but I really anticipate seeing Young Justice: Invasion premiere in a few weeks.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2012, 06:48:53 PM »
I'm not going to argue most of this since I think it's all pretty much personal preference on both sides of the fence (I fully admit that my preference is partly based on the main characters, who I've always felt more of a connection to than the JL.) but I WILL defend both of the cases I mentioned in my post. Now, I have nothing against the actual episodes that stuff appeared in... I actually purchased the itunes versions of those particular episodes because they are among my personal favorites. But I feel very strongly that those particular elements were handled poorly and I wanted to express WHY since I've been called out on it.

First, Power Girl. My God, seriously? You thought that was a good thing? I'm sorry, but I cannot in good faith support that. In the comics, Power Girl is probably one of DC's best examples short of Wonder Woman of a strong, independent female character. JLU turned her into a Supergirl knock off with clone-itis (Oh, I'm a clone, how horrible is my life, WAH!) who spent an ENTIRE EPISODE doing nothing but obsessively wailing on the JLU because she felt INFERIOR TO A TEENAGE GIRL. I am by no means a feminist or anything, but taking an independent and strong character like Power Girl and making her a whiny beach with an inferiority complex is something I personally find both disgusting and repugnant. 

Second, Captain Atom. Ignoring the blatant fallacies JLU has perpetuated with regards to how his powers actually work, his betrayal of the team was executed very poorly. We don't see him struggling with his decision, we don't see any internal conflict, we aren't even given adequate time before the episode for him to leave any impression on the audience... he showed up in the first episode of the season sacrificing himself to save everyone and then didn't really show up again until BAM! he's betrayed the team. No build up, no internal conflict, nothing. The whole thing just felt forced and it left a very bad taste in my mouth for that reason.

Offline Talavar

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2012, 08:06:56 PM »
I'm not going to argue most of this since I think it's all pretty much personal preference on both sides of the fence (I fully admit that my preference is partly based on the main characters, who I've always felt more of a connection to than the JL.) but I WILL defend both of the cases I mentioned in my post. Now, I have nothing against the actual episodes that stuff appeared in... I actually purchased the itunes versions of those particular episodes because they are among my personal favorites. But I feel very strongly that those particular elements were handled poorly and I wanted to express WHY since I've been called out on it.

First, Power Girl. My God, seriously? You thought that was a good thing? I'm sorry, but I cannot in good faith support that. In the comics, Power Girl is probably one of DC's best examples short of Wonder Woman of a strong, independent female character. JLU turned her into a Supergirl knock off with clone-itis (Oh, I'm a clone, how horrible is my life, WAH!) who spent an ENTIRE EPISODE doing nothing but obsessively wailing on the JLU because she felt INFERIOR TO A TEENAGE GIRL. I am by no means a feminist or anything, but taking an independent and strong character like Power Girl and making her a whiny beach with an inferiority complex is something I personally find both disgusting and repugnant. 

Second, Captain Atom. Ignoring the blatant fallacies JLU has perpetuated with regards to how his powers actually work, his betrayal of the team was executed very poorly. We don't see him struggling with his decision, we don't see any internal conflict, we aren't even given adequate time before the episode for him to leave any impression on the audience... he showed up in the first episode of the season sacrificing himself to save everyone and then didn't really show up again until BAM! he's betrayed the team. No build up, no internal conflict, nothing. The whole thing just felt forced and it left a very bad taste in my mouth for that reason.

The thing is - she's not Power Girl.  She's an evil Supergirl clone.  Different name, different origin, sometimes (Power Girl's have fluctuated over the years) different powers; Galatea =/= Power Girl.  In a bit of winking fan service, they gave her a similar costume, and a 3 second shot of her walking with a red towel over one shoulder where Power Girl's red, off one shoulder cape would be.  A clone feeling inferior to the original I find perfectly believable.

Captain Atom wasn't a main character, and his moral dilemma didn't matter to the larger story.  It's a disservice to him as a character, but that conflict isn't really about him, it's about Superman & Cadmus.  That, and I think you're making too much of his betrayal of the League, and not enough of his loyalty to the military.  It's clear, JLU's Captain Atom is not the same as DC Comics' Captain Atom.  Like you mention, his powers function in very different ways, JLU version is living energy in a containment suit which I don't think is true of the DC version, and their origins may be very different (ie. no false murder conviction, etc.).  As a career military man he's got good reasons to follow his orders.

So, is there a reason you guys are comparing the first season of YJ to the final seasons of Justice League or did that just happen at the spur of the moment? Wouldn't the better comparison be to compare JL (season 1) to YJ (season 1), i.e., both shows in their infancies.

I think we're comparing both shows as they exist thus far.  Young Justice in its first season has certainly been better than Justice League's first season, so it could definitely surpass the other show.  If only they'd get better voice actors for the villains!

Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2012, 11:30:11 PM »
...


AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!

So, as I was saying above, I've been really impressed with the comic series since issue 7. However, I'm honest enough to say that I was not overwhelmingly enthusiastic about the current arc... most of the other stories have fit into the show's continuity as though they were just deleted scenes or something, but this one just seems a bit crammed in. Basically it's another "Aqualad in Atlantis" story, which features Ocean Master's master plan to take over Atlantis with... well, there's no other way to put it: with the Atlantis equivalent of the KKK. Yeah, I'm hoping the next issue is a bit better, because right now this arc is kind of the Black Sheep of the YJ comics.

That said, I do like the backup story quite a bit... it goes into greater detail about the other Reds and how Morrow was able to reacquire them.








... What? it's not like we were getting anywhere with the other topic.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2012, 11:40:07 PM by Tomato »

Offline Podmark

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2012, 03:18:25 AM »
Been loving this show. Not surprised though, it's by the same guy behind Gargoyles and Spectacular Spider-Man - two of my favorite cartoons ever.
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2012, 12:40:18 AM »
Season 2 Trailer

...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

S2's going to be very interesting.

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2012, 01:17:20 AM »
Yep, I was pretty surprised to see LB.
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Offline Talavar

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2012, 02:55:54 AM »
Looks good, and the best thing is, they're going right into season 2 once season 1 wraps!

Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #73 on: April 22, 2012, 12:34:16 AM »
...

Why is no one discussing this episode yet? I demand you all type words on the subject of the awesome that was today's episode. And by that I mean I will pull my stabbity knife out of semi-retirement if there are not words about this episode's awesome tomorrow after lunch. Why are you still reading this post!?!

*collapses in fangasm*

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #74 on: April 22, 2012, 12:52:17 AM »
I missed it, so I can't watch it until tomorrow morning.
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Offline oldmanwinters

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My Season 1 retrospective
« Reply #75 on: April 22, 2012, 01:34:30 AM »
Season 1 is in the can! Kudos to the YJ creative team for highly impressive work.

I thought it was clever how they paired 6 of the 7 Justice League members most familiar to fans of the Timm-verse: Supes, Bats, Wondy, Manhunter, GL John Stewart, and Hawkgirl (or is it HawkWoman?). Apparently it was most than just a homage though, as we'll be finding out just what exactly they did during those unaccounted-for 16 hours.

I was a bit confused as to why they didn't include The Flash and complete the lineup of the "Original Seven," but then I realized that it wouldn't have worked because Wally West is actually Kid Flash in this continuity.

I do have to air at least one major complaint about this series, however. Namely, the Villains. They all seem to have about the same agenda and cooperate fully without contention, bickering, or scheming their own agendas. Apparently, we've got Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion functioning as lackeys to some "Greater Evil." There's just no way that could happen given the diverse character (or lack thereof) of that motley crew.

I can only assume that 90% of all the villains we've seen on this show have been brainwashed by the yet-to-be-revealed "The Light." I'll go on the record in saying that Mind Control is fun for short bursts but is a pretty weak way to write villains at lengths. And if they aren't being MC'd... dang, I'll be really disappointed.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 01:36:56 AM by oldmanwinters »

Offline Talavar

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #76 on: April 22, 2012, 03:15:44 AM »
A great final episode, only made better by the fact we only have to wait one week for the next season!  Glossing over the vast, mid-season break in new episodes of course....

My only complaint:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Mystik

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Re: My Season 1 retrospective
« Reply #77 on: April 22, 2012, 03:29:12 AM »
Season 1 is in the can! Kudos to the YJ creative team for highly impressive work.

I thought it was clever how they paired 6 of the 7 Justice League members most familiar to fans of the Timm-verse: Supes, Bats, Wondy, Manhunter, GL John Stewart, and Hawkgirl (or is it HawkWoman?). Apparently it was most than just a homage though, as we'll be finding out just what exactly they did during those unaccounted-for 16 hours.

I was a bit confused as to why they didn't include The Flash and complete the lineup of the "Original Seven," but then I realized that it wouldn't have worked because Wally West is actually Kid Flash in this continuity.

I do have to air at least one major complaint about this series, however. Namely, the Villains. They all seem to have about the same agenda and cooperate fully without contention, bickering, or scheming their own agendas. Apparently, we've got Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion functioning as lackeys to some "Greater Evil." There's just no way that could happen given the diverse character (or lack thereof) of that motley crew.

I can only assume that 90% of all the villains we've seen on this show have been brainwashed by the yet-to-be-revealed "The Light." I'll go on the record in saying that Mind Control is fun for short bursts but is a pretty weak way to write villains at lengths. And if they aren't being MC'd... dang, I'll be really disappointed.

they did reveal the light I thought Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion was the light

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Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #78 on: April 22, 2012, 03:56:52 AM »
A great final episode, only made better by the fact we only have to wait one week for the next season!  Glossing over the vast, mid-season break in new episodes of course....

My only complaint:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I tend to agree. If there's any real flaws between this episode and the last one, it's that they felt too rushed compared to the rest of the season.

Offline oldmanwinters

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2012, 04:12:48 AM »
A great final episode, only made better by the fact we only have to wait one week for the next season!  Glossing over the vast, mid-season break in new episodes of course....

My only complaint:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Good point about that.  I just remember Aqualad saying something like, "Good thing Mara & crew figured out an antidote so quickly."  :huh:

Those battles between Batman & Robin and Superman & Superboy really were great Saturday morning television.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2012, 01:04:48 PM »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline oldmanwinters

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Re: My Season 1 retrospective
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2012, 06:54:51 PM »

they did reveal the light I thought Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion was the light

Ah, okay, the highly serial nature of this show and my failure to catch reruns on TV or DVD confused me.

Seems like Weisman is trying to turn the major DC villains into The Illuminati or something.  It doesn't necessarily make sense to me but maybe the payoff will be worth it in Season 2.

Offline JeyNyce

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2012, 07:21:26 PM »
Even though the season final was awesome, it was rushed and they should had made it into 2 parts.

Quote
they did reveal the light I thought Vandal Savage, Luthor, Joker, Ra's Al Ghuul, and Klarion was the light

I don't think Joker is part of it.  It seems like 5-7 people pulling the strings and a bunch of sub group/ companies underneath that.  Joker is part of the sub groups.
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Offline oldmanwinters

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2012, 11:06:15 PM »


I don't think Joker is part of it.  It seems like 5-7 people pulling the strings and a bunch of sub group/ companies underneath that.  Joker is part of the sub groups.

The YJ Wiki comes through; I LOVE the internet so much. 
http://youngjustice.wikia.com/wiki/The_Light

Apparently, there are 7 Members and numerous Operatives in The Light.

EDIT: The first time I saw Klarion on the show, I just assumed he was supposed to be Morgaine le Fey's son Mordred;  I feel like such the comics noobie!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2012, 11:08:56 PM by oldmanwinters »

Offline Mystik

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2012, 12:05:42 AM »

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Offline oldmanwinters

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2012, 01:51:10 AM »
http://www.youtube.com/embed/cOGOjhFBu4M

batgirl and more

Wow, was that the Blue Beetle in there?

Beast Boy looks awesome!

Offline murs47

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2012, 03:00:43 AM »
I gotta say, season 1 was mighty impressive. Can't wait for next week's opening for season 2.

All those cameos excite the little boy in me! ^_^

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Offline Tomato

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2012, 03:53:34 AM »
(No, i did not eat a child...you're weird for even thinking that.)

Dangit murs, no one thought that but you!

Offline Podmark

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2012, 04:40:26 AM »
That was an amazing finale. The stuff with Roy really interests me.
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Offline JeyNyce

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Re: Young Justice
« Reply #89 on: April 23, 2012, 12:37:39 PM »
Looks like Robin costume will be alter a bit.  They also made him look a bit older or is that just me?
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