Young Justice

Started by Tomato, August 30, 2011, 10:22:43 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Talavar

I'm not really up on Wally West's 'Kid Flash' days - why is he so much slower?

captainawesome

Did anyone notice that Flash directed that civilian to a shelter "on Fox and Gardner", lol.

oldmanwinters

#152
Quote from: Talavar on June 02, 2012, 07:22:01 PM
I'm not really up on Wally West's 'Kid Flash' days - why is he so much slower?

My guess is that it is partly because he's been "retired" for a little while and is somewhat out of shape/practice.  Either that, or else he didn't bring his "game face" and got embarrassed by his more enthusiastic and focused counterparts.

Speaking of which, I was surprised he just put his costume back on and went out to the battle without any acknowledgement of his "post hero" status. 

Quote from: captainawesome on June 02, 2012, 07:34:45 PM
Did anyone notice that Flash directed that civilian to a shelter "on Fox and Gardner", lol.
Ha, that was pretty clever.

I'm not too educated in my DC geography.  Is Central City a stand-in for St. Louis?  That was the first time I've ever seen a giant arch in a DC cartoon, and I figure St. Louis' "Gateway to the West" moniker would make it a prime candidate to be a "central" city.

Tomato

Actually, Wally being that much slower is a nod to the original comics. In the days after becoming the flash, Wally was very limited in how fast he was capable of going. There's a pretty good book called "The Return of Barry Allen" that explored that fact, and ends with Wally overcoming those limitations.

oldmanwinters

#154
Quote from: Tomato on June 02, 2012, 11:10:36 PM
Actually, Wally being that much slower is a nod to the original comics. In the days after becoming the flash, Wally was very limited in how fast he was capable of going. There's a pretty good book called "The Return of Barry Allen" that explored that fact, and ends with Wally overcoming those limitations.

Now you got me curious, 'Mato!  Until I can track down a copy of that book and read it for myself, care to clue me in as to just what Wally's limitations were and how he overcame them?

I actually does make sense that Wally is significantly slower than Barry and Impulse in this episode, on account of how long it took him to travel across the continental United States in the "Coldhearted" episode.  Granted, it was in severely icy conditions and he had to be careful not to damage the heart he was carrying in his pack, but I was surprised at how it actually took him a few hours to make that trip.  I couldn't help but think that Barry Allen probably could have made the trip safely in under an hour.

murs47

This weeks episode was quite possibly the best episode of the series so far! :thumbup:

BentonGrey

This one I enjoyed.  Y'all know that Barry is a favorite of mine, so it was really cool to see him animated...though I'd have liked to see a bit more of him in action.  It was really cool to see the Flash family, though.  This was a good episode, and I definitely enjoyed the twist.  I like the metagene angle they're taking with the show.  I think that's got potential for interesting stories.  However, this episode highlighted something for me once again.  One of YJ's greatest weaknesses is its voice acting.  Many of the voice actors are just adequate, not really breathing much life into their characters.  I felt that way about the guy who played Barry.  A better fit in voice acting could have made more of his short appearance.  I will say this, though:

Spoiler
The entire episode I was expecting them to kill off Barry, and I was prepared to be unhappy about that, so I was very pleased when Impulse saved his life.  That whole ending was handled very well.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Talavar

Gotta agree with you, Benton - the voice acting on this show is a mixed bag.  The core cast is good, but some of the choices for villains, League members and bit-parts isn't to the same standard.

Tomato

Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 02, 2012, 11:34:53 PM
Quote from: Tomato on June 02, 2012, 11:10:36 PM
Actually, Wally being that much slower is a nod to the original comics. In the days after becoming the flash, Wally was very limited in how fast he was capable of going. There's a pretty good book called "The Return of Barry Allen" that explored that fact, and ends with Wally overcoming those limitations.

Now you got me curious, 'Mato!  Until I can track down a copy of that book and read it for myself, care to clue me in as to just what Wally's limitations were and how he overcame them?

I actually does make sense that Wally is significantly slower than Barry and Impulse in this episode, on account of how long it took him to travel across the continental United States in the "Coldhearted" episode.  Granted, it was in severely icy conditions and he had to be careful not to damage the heart he was carrying in his pack, but I was surprised at how it actually took him a few hours to make that trip.  I couldn't help but think that Barry Allen probably could have made the trip safely in under an hour.

Basically it stemmed from Wally not wanting to surpass Barry... He subconsciously limited himself to not being able to vibrate through walls or run as fast because that would mean he had once and for all replaced his mentor. I won't go into the details on why he finally has to go beyond those limits (spoilers!) but in the end what pushes him to surpass his limitations is exactly what was holding him back: the fundamental need to protect Barry's legacy.

Like I said, it's a really classic Flash story, one of my personal favorites.

BentonGrey

That's cool 'Mato.  That sounds like a good story.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Cyber Burn

Quote from: BentonGrey on June 03, 2012, 06:16:38 PM
That's cool 'Mato.  That sounds like a good story.

One of my favorite Flash stories as well. :thumbup:

Glitch Girl

#161
BTW: Bloodlines was written by Peter David.  And yes the Flash family is a fun group.  Nice little shout out to "Fox Gardner" in there as well.  As for the episode...

Spoilers ahoy!
Spoiler

This was one of those episodes, where I had to go back and watch it again after the reveal to really analyze Bart's dialogue (and to try to get a better look at the two "controllers" for lack of a better word).  "Crash the Mode" indeed.  I didn't realize just how much of the ditziness was an act, but even so, he dropped enough hints that there's a very good chance that Nightwing or even Kid Flash may have picked up he's hiding a BIG honkin' secret.   That Neutron namedrop is definitely a big giveaway, though I think that one was a genuine accident.   The rest... not so sure how many were on purpose and how many were part of the act.

It's a very different Bart that what I was used to, but I did not mind.  I liked this version a lot.   For the most part, I have liked the re-imaging of characters this series has done.

The scenes with the Flash family at the Garricks was a lot of fun.  That bit about "Back in a flash!" and everyone sighing was very Peter David.  I also liked the Wests found out it was going to be twins.   I was surprised that Kid Flash is so much slower than Barry and Bart, but I never read the Flash much so now I know thanks to this thread.

I get the impression that Wally left the hero business to deal with college with Artemis.  I remember in a prior episode when he was talking to Artemis about his paper that he needed some help with it, which implies that while he might be fast, he's someone who has to work to get good grades, and doing that while being on call 27/7 probably doesn't work.  The fact that his girlfriend seems to be doing the college thing too is probably good incentive as well.  We may know more after the next episode, which is an Artemis focused episode, but my theory is that Kid Flash is growing up. 

The Controllers (I don't know what else to call them at present)... we know that they are alien (from the language), humanoid (from the silhouettes), working with the Kroatans (the whole "metagene" mention) though they may be using them (that bomb incident, the planter was also humanoid), and can control minds (Neutron while in the suit, and after not knowing what happened) and make superbeings (Neutron).   The way the time stream exists now, they appear to have won (didn't crash the mode), though things are changing ever so slightly.  Neutron may no longer leveled Mount Justice (implied, but not certain) but SOMETHING blew it up, as it remains blown up after the time shift which Neutron notices...

Yeah, about that.  Time travel is a little hinky to deal with, but the fact he stayed behind and is aware of the change bugs me.  I know they needed someone narrative-wise to point out that things are going to get really bad, but it still bugs me because he obviously was affected by the new timeline (from the prison garb and dampener collar to regular clothes in the instant Bart left).   

Argh, time travel makes my head hurt.

As for the B story with Red Arrow and Cheshire looking for Speedy, that was fun, even if the Rule of Comedy overrode logic a bit (ie: Bringing Liam along).  So the real Roy is... well back in the picture at least with people who will care for him, minus half an arm.  I don't think that much genetic material was needed to make Red Arrow, so there's the question of what happened to it, and him for that matter.  He hasn't woken up so who knows his mental state and what it may be when he finds out all the stuff he missed. 


BTW: I think after next week's episode, there's going to be a break (BOOO!!), so be warned.
-Glitch Girl

"Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters." - Greg Rucka

Cyber Burn

#162
When I hear "Meta-gene", I immediately think of the:
Spoiler
The Dominators
.

Glitch Girl

Cyber Burn
Didn't know much about them, but now that I've looked them up, I think you're right.
-Glitch Girl

"Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters." - Greg Rucka

oldmanwinters

Quote from: Cyber Burn on June 04, 2012, 02:17:55 AM
When I hear "Meta-gene", I immediately think of the:
Spoiler
The Dominators
.

Indeed.  I have all three of the main issues from that original "Invasion!" arc.  I believe it was DC first big company crossover event after the Crisis reboot.

thalaw2

I always hated Bart until this epi.  I couldn't stand to read any book with him in it...and when he showed up in YJ I was expecting it to go down the toilet.  I'm glad they made him more mature. 
革命不会被电视转播

Thunder

This Invasion storyline has got me intrigued....I think the ultimate end bad guy is:

Spoiler
Darkseid.  I know that the Reach is referenced (because Blue Beetle is one of their soldiers), but there are clues as to ol' Darky. 

  • G. Gordon Godfrey is a Darkseid minion
  • In the comics, Godfrey turned public opinion against the JLA
  • Darkseid "using" the Reach to advance his plans  shows his ability to manipulate others
  • Intergang and their Apokoliptian weaponry
  • Beetles armor was ineffective against Apokoliptian tech

Just my two cents

oldmanwinters

Quote from: Thunder on June 06, 2012, 10:54:31 AM

Spoiler
Darkseid.  I know that the Reach is referenced (because Blue Beetle is one of their soldiers), but there are clues as to ol' Darky. 

  • G. Gordon Godfrey is a Darkseid minion
  • In the comics, Godfrey turned public opinion against the JLA



Once again, I feel so naive!  I never even looked that up and just assumed the Godfrey character was a simple parody of opinionated talking TV heads.

Podmark

Yay now we finally have all four of the core YJ from the comics. Those four are among my favorite DC characters.
Get my skins at:
HeroForce
my Google page

oldmanwinters

Re: "Depths"

"There's no static on the psychic link!"
:lol:

Spoiler
Just when they had finally convinced him that Kaldur had really become a jaded scumbag, they went and pulled off ending like that!


While I was watching it (recorded) I couldn't quite tell if they were showing blood on Artemis's shirt or not, so when I went back and looked, I was fooled into thinking that "device" Nightwing placed on her chest was just supposed to be a blood stain.  They fooled me on account of the fact that I didn't think the censors would let them get away with anything more explicit.

Glitch Girl

Also re: Depths

Spoiler
TOTALLY CALLED IT!!  :D :D :D  (now if I could only find the post where I actually did call it ;) )  I KNEW he was under deep cover!  Though Nightwing and friends are gonna have some 'splain' to do when this is all over.  They're keeping this on the QT, but why?  Why can't they trust the team?  And can anyone tell me who she's disguised as, if it's anyone of note?

The further revelation of why M'ghan and Conner broke up... ouch!  She tried to make him forget... I'm starting to wonder if she's entirely in control or if there are subtle influences going on.

Have to admit, I really like Artemis and Wally as a couple. 


Oh yeah, nice touch that Carol was dressed in the light purple reminiscent of Star Sapphires.
-Glitch Girl

"Cynicism is not maturity, do not mistake the one for the other. If you truly cannot accept a story where someone does the right thing because it's the right thing to do, that says far more about who you are than these characters." - Greg Rucka

oldmanwinters

Quote from: Glitch Girl on June 10, 2012, 12:23:24 AM
Also re: Depths

Spoiler
TOTALLY CALLED IT!!  :D :D :D  (now if I could only find the post where I actually did call it ;) )  I KNEW he was under deep cover!  Though Nightwing and friends are gonna have some 'splain' to do when this is all over.  They're keeping this on the QT, but why?  Why can't they trust the team?  And can anyone tell me who she's disguised as, if it's anyone of note.


GG, you may have indeed "called it," but, as Nightwing stated, his hands aren't exactly clean either.

Also, I was so sure that I had "called it" on the event that would bring Wally West out of retirement:
http://freedomreborn.net/forums/index.php?topic=54686.msg751515#msg751515

Alas, the twist ending proved me wrong!

JeyNyce

WOW!
This show just keeps you guessing until the end.  This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.
I don't call for tech support, I AM TECH SUPPORT!
It's the internet, don't take it personal!

oldmanwinters

#173
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss.  That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.

Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.

Uh... not quite.

In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.

JeyNyce

Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss.  That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.

Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.

Uh... not quite.

In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.

Well YJ is heading that way then.
I don't call for tech support, I AM TECH SUPPORT!
It's the internet, don't take it personal!

oldmanwinters

Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss.  That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.

Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.

Uh... not quite.

In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.

Well YJ is heading that way then.

It is getting pretty good this season.

murs47

Great episode! More Black Manta-Lad goodness! This episode reminded me of The Departed.


thalaw2

Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 07:16:17 PM
Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 06:58:29 PM
Quote from: oldmanwinters on June 10, 2012, 05:43:12 PM
I feel ashamed to admit it, but the presence of Martian Manhunter at the Ferris press-conference didn't immediately set off caution flags in my mind that something was amiss.  That was a pretty good fake out YJ pulled off.

Quote from: JeyNyce on June 10, 2012, 01:07:15 PM
This is a bit more mature or more serious than JLU ever was.

Uh... not quite.

In JLU, people died, some deaths were faked, heroes were beaten to within an inch of their life, and secrets sowed seeds of disunity and doubt both among the public and within the League.

Well YJ is heading that way then.

It is getting pretty good this season.

People have died in YJ.  In season 1 Dr. Fate died...and told Wally to hook up with Artemis.  Also, characters have taken a pretty good beating on more than 1 occasion.
革命不会被电视转播

oldmanwinters

#178
Quote from: thalaw2 on June 10, 2012, 11:25:47 PM


People have died in YJ.  In season 1 Dr. Fate died...and told Wally to hook up with Artemis.  Also, characters have taken a pretty good beating on more than 1 occasion.

I was just trying to say all the mature themes in YJ aren't terribly new when compared to the totality of JLU & and DC Animated Universe.

That will probably be the last statement I make on the matter, since I really don't like the "This new show isn't as good as the older show" or vice versa comparisons.  My apologies for more-or-less bringing up the subject again.

thalaw2

No apologies necessary, Oldman...it's what we're here for.
革命不会被电视转播