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Author Topic: Nickelodeon's TMNT  (Read 7180 times)

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #60 on: April 24, 2013, 10:39:36 PM »
So noone's talking about this show right now? That's a shame. I'll go first.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
.

The 2k3 was my favorite show of all time when it aired, and if it isn't now, it still stands high in the pantheon along with stuff like Reboot, Beast Wars, Firefly, most of Greg Weisman's shows, Avatar, ect. So you'll understand my need to defend its honor. This is where I get defensive and contrary. Oppa Benton Style.

its takes a character that has already been established over many many different forms of media as the big bad that could easily hold his own with the other villains, due to his high intellect, experience with both mysticism and technology let alone a personal world spanning army of mutants and ninja warriors all to flush it away to get a reaction of of fans. ohh ohh lets stick an alien in his belly. [
]

A jaundiced account. Shredder was never as good as you make him sound there.

-80s cartoon Shredder was a saturday morning cartoon villain, plotting, cackling, bickering, and running away with a "I'll get you next time Gadget!". Didn't even fight the turtles in his first appearance, hid behind his equally useless goons. He was on par with Team Rocket from Pokemon (ironic, since Team Rocket has now been portrayed as serious,  competent and sinister as late). What mutant army? Far as I remember, every mutant he created other than the first three (Bebob, Rocksteady, and the one punk he turned into a bat in the early episodes)  turn on him in seconds. Groundchuck, Dirtbag, and Tatoo all abandoned him in the same flipping storyline.

-In the Konami video games Shredder was a butt kicker of epic proportions, but that was a beat em up arcade game; the priority was to be challenging, not be true to the tone of the show. Krang and Slash was cheap as all heck in those games too; doesn't mean that's what they were like that in the show.

-Comics Shredder got killed in his first appearance when Donnie knocked his own grenade back at him. That's some epic fail right there. He came back to life as a result of cloning and "healing worms". Later he became a shark/octopus hybrid thing, real dime-store Lovecraft. And as someone who read the original run of the comic, the first issue was Splinter getting REVENGE and sending his kids to do his dirty work. As such, Shredder's return in the comic carries an unspoken theme of "your past sins come back to haunt you". Eastman and Laird never intended him to be "Space Jesus" (to quote Mr. Plinkett re: Darth Vader). He just got so iconic that everyone came to expect more Shred-Head. Also, the crazy Shredder clones from the 2K3 (including Lobster Shredder and Midget Shredder) were in the comic. I think that does just as much or more to make Shredder harder to take seriously. Someone just got an extreme makeover.

-Live action Shredder fought the Turtles once, beat them, got beaten by Splinter, and fell off a roof. An accurate account of the first fight with 2K3 Shredder. In the second film, he hid behind his goons, fought nobody, and killed himself by accident. That's what we call "Villain Decay".  The less said about "The Next Mutation" the better.

[
Quote
] dont dress it up thats all the utrom shredder was something that they knew would get a reaction and went with it.
]

 I don't "dress it up" as any such thing. I calls it as I sees it. In the parts of the fandom I've seen online, Chrell is considered Numbah 1 Shredder, (with good reason too. In Turtles Forever, he came within an inch of destroying the MULTIVERSE. 80s Shredder plotted to create a "tickle ray" and Mirage Shredder briefly showed up and was promptly knocked off a roof, just like in the comic. I don't see anything wrong with this.) to the point that before this show premiered, people was seriously debating whether the new version will top him (I firmly contend he hasn't. How could he? All he does is sit on his throne Darseid-style).

As for messing with the lore....this is Turtles we're talking about. They can't go five minutes without messing with the lore. There were worse offenders in the OPENING arc of the 80s cartoon, as in the main cast.

Quote
as for making him have an impact over the history, idw has done this perfectly with keeping the character true to his roots and simply adding the idea of reincarnation and destiny of a feud

Now on that we can agree. The IDW version of the comic in general is simply sublime.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #61 on: April 24, 2013, 10:45:52 PM »
Quote
That was a very controversial decision, as evidenced by the various fan opinions.

Everything about that show was controversial in the eyes of the fans. The theme song, April not being a reporter, the Turtles having brown knee  pads and white eyes, the Utroms "being Krang". I wouldn't be surprised someone complained that Baxter Stockman was black! A few years back I seriously saw some cat online write off the show because Mikey made a fart joke in an early episode (ironic, considering he made a fart joke in the latest episode of the Nicktoons show). It wasn't "their" Turtles, implying turtles can only be one thing. It's especially funny since the first live action film had more in common with the 2K3 (since both were based on the comic), yet I've never heard a single person say the first film ruined Turtles.

Quote
The real treat was that this decision allowed the show to get away with showing Leonardo behead the Shredder during their climatic showdown at the end of Return to New York.  None of us fans ever thought that bit from the comics was going to get adapted into the show.  I remember being half asleep on that Saturday morning a decade ago watching this episode (the arc had kinda dragged on too long in my opinion), but when I saw that scene... man, I was shocked... SHOCKED! (to quote Claude Rains's character from Casablanca).

And on 4Kids no less. These are the guys who tried to convince kids that the Navy uses squirt guns.  And to my knowledge, they've never been topped in that regard until Clone Wars, the Most Violent Cartoon on Tv. Also, see "Same as it Never Was". Undoubtedly my favorite episode of the whole show.

Quote
The biggest downside to that plot twist, in my opinion, is that the reveal quickly turned the Shredder into a joke, a character that could no longer be truly feared because you knew he was just a squid in a robot suit.  I think Laird and the 4Kids creative team hoped to use this fact to their advantage and try to prove to the audience that the TMNT didn't need Shredder looming around as the Big Bad every week.  They even aspired to remove him completely from the show at the end of Season 3.  But I think the later seasons of the show prove just how difficult that task can be.  The show (much like the old Mirage Comics) struggled to find its new post-Shredder Big Bad and eventually they started reintroducing new versions of Shredder: Karai Shredder, Tengu Shredder, Cyber Shredder, and even Sh'Okanabo's armor bore a little resemblance to the Shredder suit during the Fast Forward season.  I guess the Nick & IDW series will try their hand at having Shredder around without making him the sole Big Bad every week.  We shall have to wait and see how it works out.

Fun fact, there was actually going to be a TRICERATON SHREDDER in Fast Forward. How awesome is that? He would have been revealed to be a Triceraton who'd been possessed by Ch'rell face-hugger style.

I don't feel him being a squid in a suit made him a joke at all. The only time I thought he suffered any significant Villain Decay was Rogue In The House, in which he had a plot to replace the Present of the USA and the Prime Minister of Britain with robots, a cornball plot that could have been pulled straight out the 80's cartoon (or any 80s cartoon for that matter) and didn't ring true to his motivations at all. And yet that episode is absolutely saved by the growing Leo/Karai dynamic, the awesomeness of Zog, and Baxter Stockman once again cheating death (man, why doesn't he do that stuff in the new one?) Him being a squid didn't stop him from beating the turtles black and blue in the finale of season 3. And anyone who thinks this Shredder was a joke needs to drop everything right now and watch "Same as it Never Was", if they haven't already.

As for season 4, season 4 and 5 (the Ninja Tribunal season) are actually my favorite seasons. In the absence of Shredder, Karai, Bishop and even Hun really stepped up. Karai as the Shredder in her first appearance was all sorts of awesome, though her next appearance was pretty darn embarrassing. I've always held season 4 as a firm example that you don't need to rely on Shredder nonstop to tell good stories, and really, why would you? He's been played out. Give us something new.
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Offline Glitch Girl

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2014, 02:53:04 PM »
Raising this thread from the dead thanks to some great bits slipped into this week's episode.

At one point, April, Casey, and the Turtles are in a place filled with portals to other dimensions.  Looking into one of the portals they see... 80's animated TMNT world.  Not done in CG, but done in all it's cell-shaded glory. 
Quote
Mikey (after concluding that these are alternate thems):"We look like dorks"
April (sees 80's April): Is that supposed to be me?
Don (enjoying the view): Nice jumpsuit...

Then the episodes final stinger
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Offline bat1987

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2014, 03:43:27 PM »
Love this show, even the new takes on some of the characters I like. Loved the 80's part of the last episode.

Shredder and Splinter here are prolly my favorite versions of the characters.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2014, 04:39:38 PM by bat1987 »

Offline oldmanwinters

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #64 on: March 20, 2014, 02:52:22 AM »
Raising this thread from the dead thanks to some great bits slipped into this week's episode.

At one point, April, Casey, and the Turtles are in a place filled with portals to other dimensions.  Looking into one of the portals they see... 80's animated TMNT world.  Not done in CG, but done in all it's cell-shaded glory. 
Quote
Mikey (after concluding that these are alternate thems):"We look like dorks"
April (sees 80's April): Is that supposed to be me?
Don (enjoying the view): Nice jumpsuit...

Then the episodes final stinger
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those were indeed the original voice actors!  Also, I think they mixed up Townsend Coleman and Barry Grossman in the credits.

Cam Clarke seemed the most out of practice with his Leonardo voice; it was weird because the turtles were drawn similar to their Season 1 look but Clarke sounded like he was trying to use his later season voice range for Leo.

Offline Glitch Girl

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #65 on: September 16, 2014, 02:54:31 PM »
Okay, had several major fangirl moments during the most recent episode. 

The episode was a big ol' nod to Big Trouble in Little China featuring Lo Pan Ho Chan voice by James Hong.  They even did the finger bit where he's controlling his minions Thunder, Wind, and Lightning (complete with the big hats).
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Offline Podmark

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #66 on: September 18, 2014, 02:51:27 AM »
Haven't seen the latest episode yet, but that last chunk have been impressive.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Very happy with this show, but the ongoing plots and the villains could use some work. The Kraang are kinda throwaway at this point. And I found the squandered a lot of story revolving around April.
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Offline XStream

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2014, 05:43:14 PM »
You know, I've tried to like this show. And what I like about it I really like. However there are a few things that continue to bug me about the show.

Most of which are the mutations. For the most part the villain's mutations
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
are just odd. It leaves me wondering how this design team would have made the turtles if they were forced to make them resemble the source material.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2014, 01:47:16 AM by XStream »
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #68 on: October 12, 2014, 03:57:24 AM »
So I just saw the Season 2 finale, and man was it good. Much better than the season 1 finale, and unlike that season, this one really has me looking forward to seeing where they go from here with the various plot points.

Spoilers ahoy:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
-"Wherever kindness is MOCKED--and CRUELTY is worn as a badge of honor--THERE you will find them. So WEAK inside,

that they cannot imagine that TRUE strength of SPIRIT--can even exist."
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Offline Glitch Girl

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2014, 02:08:14 PM »
The season 3 opener has already aired but wanted to mention a few things:

  • Leo got a voice recast - he's now voiced by Seth Green.  The fact he  sounds different is addressed in the show.
  • They are currently staying at a farmhouse and the tub is used for recovery, a la the original TMNT movie.
  • TONS of slasher movie tropes in the opening episode
  • The following episode featuring Bigfoot was far less satisfying sadly, but we'll see where they go.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #70 on: October 14, 2014, 12:47:22 AM »
^ In America, yes. I've been been watching it on Canadian tv so it's a few episodes behind. They're supposed to start s3 this week. I read about the plots of the first three or so episodes so I knew it wasn't anything too exciting. I did see a preview clip of Seth Green as Leo though, and he sounded alright, though noticeably different.  Jason Biggs (American Pie) was a great Leo, and him having a stand-in for the back half of season 2 hurt the show a bit, so this is probably for the best. I love Seth Green in most of his other stuff (his role on Hulk excluded), but he usually such a comedy actor so I'm looking forward to seeing him handle some heavier material as Leo.

Upcoming announcements for the show:

-Napoleon Bonafrog will be showing up
-Mondo Gecko will be showing up, voiced by Robbie Rist, the voice of Michealangelo from the original Live Action Turtles movies. I think that's neat.
-The creators have said that Fishface will not be mutating into Tokka, but they're not opposed to Tokka.
-Muckman will apparently be showing up in the future.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2014, 12:04:39 AM »
I'm way behind on this show (only being able to watch it when I'm at home on the weekends and the wife is busy, as she doesn't like it at all), so take this with the appropriate portions of salt:

I'm more or less in the same boat as XStream, here.  I actually like a lot of things about this show but can't really get onboard with it.  The writing is clever at least a little more often than not, there are some genuinely good character moments, and the animation is generally quite good.  The villains actually manage (other than the Krang) to be somewhat menacing too, and that helps keep the show interesting as an adult.  Yet, despite all of that, just about every episode I watch ends up annoying me to no end.  It's like reading a comic written by Kurt Busiek but drawn by Rob Leifield. 

I hate, not just dislike, not just 'am not crazy about,' but actively hate pretty much every new character design they introduce.  The Turtles themselves looks great, as does Splinter.  April is fine, the Foot look good, and even though Shredder looks a bit goofy, I can live with him.  Therein lies every positive thing I could say about the show's aesthetic.  Every mutant they introduce is terrible looking, hideous and at the same time forgettable.  I think it has a lot to do with their obsession with making everything asymmetrical.  The charming grotesqueness of the original 'toon and toyline (so ugly they're cute) is completely absent here, in both the looks and the names of the various mutant characters.  Of course, this is doubly a shame since the toys they are putting out are awesome in quality.  I mean, just look at this slice of 80s awesomeness:
http://myyardsalepick.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/sam_9738.jpg

Hence, here we are, about to have some of my favorite character reintroduced, and all I can think is, 'Holy Hannah, what kind of hatchet job are they going to do on the Punk Frogs?'  It's a real shame, because if they'd just fire whoever the heck is in their art director, this series could be really, REALLY great. 

Ohh, and I hate Casey Jones' gap-toothed design so much, I want to knock out the REST of his teeth. :P
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Offline Podmark

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2014, 02:41:29 AM »
Benton, I believe I have all but seven of the figures in your picture :)
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2014, 03:42:26 AM »
Benton, I believe I have all but seven of the figures in your picture :)

Ha, awesome Pod!  At one time, I'm pretty sure I had all of them except for Rahzar and Slash! :D
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Offline Podmark

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2014, 03:55:15 AM »
I have a whole bunch of figures you don't have pictured, plus many of the vehicles and playsets. I was huge on Turtles as a kid.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2014, 04:04:58 AM »
It's possible I was, and still am, a humongous Turtles fan!:
http://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2010/01/15/further-projects-from-the-ether/

Did you ever play my TMNT mod, Pod?
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #76 on: October 16, 2014, 12:55:48 AM »
I didn't even know that version of Slash with the silver legs existed. Is that a real figure or a fan-modified one?
I haven't had the problem with the mutant character designs others here have had, but I will say Dogpound's design always bothered me. He's big and bulky, with one huge arm, and a disproportionately large head, like a bad sprite from a old video game. I also prefer Bradford as a more agile fighter (he did after all, start out as Chuck Norris). On that note, while the new Rahzer design is bizarre and ghoulish, I still greatly prefer that one to Dogpound.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #77 on: October 16, 2014, 01:38:50 AM »
On that note, while the new Rahzer design is bizarre and ghoulish, I still greatly prefer that one to Dogpound.

Agreed.  Dogpound's design was one of the worst, though for my money, Mr. O'Neil's bat-mutation was THE worst.  Yeah, I think that version of Slash is real.  I seem to remember there being more than one. 
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Offline Podmark

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #78 on: October 16, 2014, 04:09:35 AM »
Did you ever play my TMNT mod, Pod?

Not yet. Haven't spent any time on mods for a long time. I'll have to make some time one day.

Agreed.  Dogpound's design was one of the worst, though for my money, Mr. O'Neil's bat-mutation was THE worst.  Yeah, I think that version of Slash is real.  I seem to remember there being more than one. 

Admittedly I'm pretty sure Kirby's mutation was supposed to look terrible. It's all about a tragic turn for the character that he must be saved from.

I liked Dogpound for what he was. Fish Face is the one I don't like, and some of the throwaway villains like Spiderbite. Rahzer has a cool design.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2014, 04:39:34 AM »
Not yet. Haven't spent any time on mods for a long time. I'll have to make some time one day.

Ohh man, I have to say, if you're a fan of the classic Turtles, you might be missing out! ;)

Admittedly I'm pretty sure Kirby's mutation was supposed to look terrible. It's all about a tragic turn for the character that he must be saved from.

I liked Dogpound for what he was. Fish Face is the one I don't like, and some of the throwaway villains like Spiderbite. Rahzer has a cool design.

Urg.  Kirby's supposed to look terrible, but it just looks sloppy, not horrifying....well...not INTENTIONALLY horrifying.  It's just a terrible, terrible design.

I don't care for any of them, but Rahzer is a lot more tolerable now.

I just saw the episode where the Newt guy teams up with Slash, and I was reminded that I actually don't mind the lizard fellow's design.  It's pretty solid, though not anything amazing.  Slash just looks overly-sized and silly.  The episode itself was pretty good, though.

:EDIT: Anyone else creeped out by Mikey eating a sentient being in the "Pizza Face" episode?
« Last Edit: October 18, 2014, 07:43:13 PM by BentonGrey »
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Offline spydermann93

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #80 on: October 19, 2014, 04:59:23 PM »
:EDIT: Anyone else creeped out by Mikey eating a sentient being in the "Pizza Face" episode?

Yes!  Stuff like that always gives me the creeps.

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #81 on: October 19, 2014, 11:30:57 PM »
It's ok. That episode may or may not have been a dream. It's not entirely clear.
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Offline XStream

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #82 on: October 22, 2014, 04:05:55 AM »
It's ok. That episode may or may not have been a dream. It's not entirely clear.

 :blink:

I did have all of those figures except the silver-legged Slash and the Bebop and Rocksteady (had the original though, I see him in the pic too) in that picture... and that red bull, but I remember my best friend had it!

I enjoy the story of this show, a great deal actually. I love the designs of the core team. But I hate how the mutagen affected all the mutants. I'm thinking that as the Krang have perfected the mutagen it has made the mutations worse...

Take Spider-byte... This could have been a very cool and creepy looking character. But instead it looks like a Pokemon or something. What sense does the sphere with legs that make him look more like a hand make? And he is so cartoonish...

Dogpound was.... well meh. I was glad to see the change into Razar (however they spell it), but even that change doesn't look quite right when you consider the original character model. There is no way that narrow skull was under the ma-hunkin head.

And then there was the snake character introduced at the end of season two (yes, I know who it is. Trying to stay spoiler free)... Snake hands? Who asked their three year old to design such an important character to the show's storyline?

Wait, and then they get very realistic looking on Baxter's mutation... What's up with that!?

I do actually enjoy the show, but my family hates it. We watch the first four episodes on DVD but that's it. The show is too scary for my little ones, and it annoys my wife. Now, this is coming from a family who watches the 80's toon and 2k3 all the time. My two year old can sing the original theme song and can probably sing more of the 2k3 song than I can (although I can get the counting part pretty easily...).

Maybe I am asking too much from a very popular show, but the only place I feel the show really lacks are in the mutant designs. Their turtles look like turtles, their rats look like rats, but spiders look like pokemon, and Spike/Slash looks like a muppet...
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Offline Glitch Girl

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #83 on: October 22, 2014, 12:58:18 PM »
Speaking of scary, that last episode introducing April's mom was pure nightmare fuel.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #84 on: October 22, 2014, 02:14:56 PM »
Yep XS, I pretty much wholeheartedly agree.

:EDIT:  Oddly enough, my wife hates the show, but not for any of the reasons that you might expect.  She just hates the animation.  She says that the Turtles are 'sharp and boxy, and that is stupid.'  Ha, Lady Grey tends to get hung up on minor details.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2014, 02:28:19 PM by BentonGrey »
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Offline bat1987

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #85 on: October 22, 2014, 07:50:45 PM »
I love the show. Good balance between humour and some serious stuff from time to time. Love shredder and Splinter here. Def one of my favorite incarnation of the turtles as a whole.

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #86 on: October 23, 2014, 12:23:38 AM »
It's ok. That episode may or may not have been a dream. It's not entirely clear.

 :blink:



Take Spider-byte... This could have been a very cool and creepy looking character. But instead it looks like a Pokemon or something. What sense does the sphere with legs that make him look more like a hand make? And he is so cartoonish...

I agree. It think it's neat that he was voiced by comedian Lewis Black (though I'm not personally familiar with his material) but otherwise the villain's a complete joke. Probably the weakest foe in the show along with Snakeweed.


And then there was the snake character introduced at the end of season two (yes, I know who it is. Trying to stay spoiler free)... [/quote]

You actually spoiled it several posts up. You might want to edit that, not everyone's caught up. I didn't realize Benton was as behind as he is, for one.  That's not the end of season 2 by the way. The show went on hiatus for a while while the movie was coming out. The s2 finale was a two parter called "Invasion" (I talk about it in an earlier post).

Quote
Wait, and then they get very realistic looking on Baxter's mutation... What's up with that!?

Baxter was weird, but I kinda like how they did him, it makes him extra pitiful.  I felt sorry for him in that episode.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #87 on: October 23, 2014, 01:01:47 AM »
I caught up a lot this week.  I think I'm only 3 episodes behind now, but I'll get further behind as I won't be able to go home for the next two weeks.

Also, the classic version of The Fly was plenty pitiful, especially with that voice:
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081124213915/tmnt/images/a/a4/Baxter_the_Fly.jpg

I'll take that over this version any day. :P
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Offline XStream

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #88 on: October 23, 2014, 02:06:30 AM »

You actually spoiled it several posts up. You might want to edit that, not everyone's caught up. I didn't realize Benton was as behind as he is, for one. 

 :blink:

Edited. Sorry about that. Hope I didn't spoil anything for anybody.

I do want to reiterate that for the most part I do enjoy the show. I believe the story and characterization is one of my favorite interpretations of the characters. And as much as I dispise some of the designs, there are also some really good ones. I like Metalhead, Leatherhead, that Newt guy, Tigerclaw, and many others. It just seems that some of the designs should not exist next to one another... if that makes sense.

Case in point; Leo, Raph, and Donnie all have this sharp edge around their head model... it is placed in a different place to create some distinction in the turtles heads. Mikey lacks this ridge... and it bugs me. Sometimes I wish they all had more rounded faces like Mikey (which I believe they did to create a more youthful design to reflect his maturity) and sometimes I wish Mikey had one somewhere just for consistency...

Now, I am doing it again. I do really like this show... I promise.
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Offline XStream

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Re: Nickelodeon's TMNT
« Reply #89 on: October 23, 2014, 02:11:19 AM »
I caught up a lot this week.  I think I'm only 3 episodes behind now, but I'll get further behind as I won't be able to go home for the next two weeks.

Also, the classic version of The Fly was plenty pitiful, especially with that voice:
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081124213915/tmnt/images/a/a4/Baxter_the_Fly.jpg

I'll take that over this version any day. :P

You know Benton, I've seen that episode a few times recently and talk about a show with some plot holes. Krang couldn't send Bebop and Rocksteady to earth without something coming through the portal first... So Shredder throws little ol' Stockman in exchange for two massive mutants. I guess there was no need in equal a mass going through the portal. Then after Stockman is turned into a fly mutant (in an incinerator!) he flies through the portal on his own... One of the few times I felt the show writers were a little lazy. Man I still love that show. I need to pick up season 4 soon.
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