The Dark Knight Rises!

Started by detourne_me, July 19, 2012, 07:56:23 AM

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detourne_me

Well, just got out of the theater.
I think it's a given that this film is a must-see.
No spoilers here, but the third act of the film was just spectacular.

I'm just bummed that being in Korea, although I get to watch the movie before the US, I get shafted by not having the Man of Steel trailer.
The same with the missing shwarma scene from the Avengers

captmorgan72

#1
So wait a minute...
Spoiler
http://nukethefridge.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Bane-Details.jpg According to this, Bane's mask dispenses gas to numb pain. Does this mean he doesn't have super human strength? I'm also confused by articles I am reading. Bane is referred to as a hulking man. In every picture I have seen, Batman looks taller and bigger than Bane.

detourne_me

Spoiler
To be honest, it isn't quite clear the purpose of Bane's mask until a point in the film. Rest assured, bane is VERY much a hulk of a man. I believe it's natural too (probably gonna watch Bronson some time this weekend to confirm.
It also looks like Nolan had been paying attention to Windind Refn's action sequences too. As the fighting between Bane and Batman is quite visceral and vicious.

Or if you don't want to read the spoiler. Don't worry. Tom Hardy (Bane) is a beast of a man

Shogunn2517

Yeah, wasn't really that impressed.

Spoiler
I really could have done without Nolan killing Batman, Ras Al Ghul, Talia, Harvey Dent, a throw away reference to Robin, Batman revealing who is is to Gordon, some dude just up and knowing who Batman is, 45 unnecessary minutes of movie, Batman taking a hiatus for eight years, a flying... Whatever it is, Bane's voice, and the fact Anne Hathaway looks like my ex who ripped out my still-beating heart and I had to look at her for three hours.

Other than that it wasn't too bad.

Figure Fan

I'm not exactly sure what to make of it yet. It was good enough, but not great. Bane wasn't all that compelling of a revolutionary figure/antagonist, at least not to me.

detourne_me

Just saw a good review where they say The Dark Knight is like a crush you fall in love with immediately while Rises is like a girl you grow to love, realizing she was the one all along.... well maybe not for you Shogunn.

ugh i want to see it again... and avengers.  and all the lead up movies from both companies!

JeyNyce

First off the movie was great.  It was a nice was to end the trilogy.  I had my doubts about Bane, but I was so wrong.  I liked him a lot in this movie.  Catwoman wasn't bad either and she looked really hot in the outfit.

Shogunn I think you missed on a few things:

Spoiler
1- Bruce didn't want to be Batman forever.  He made that clear in the first & second movie.  This was a way for him to "end" his career as Batman.  Also Bruce stated that "Anybody could be behind the mask" which leads to #2

2- The "throw away" reference to Robin was a bit more than that.  Remember that in the comics, Tim figure out who Batman & Robin was and he became the next Robin.  I figure Nolan did that for the fans because he said that Robin wasn't going to be in the film.

3- The movie came to a full circle in my book and it was nicely done

For anybody else who saw the movie: 

Spoiler
I think it cover 3 major story lines:  The Dark Knight Returns, No Man's Land, & KnightFall
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oldmanwinters

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on July 20, 2012, 08:07:13 AM
Yeah, wasn't really that impressed.

Spoiler
I really could have done without Nolan killing Batman, Ras Al Ghul, Talia, Harvey Dent, a throw away reference to Robin, Batman revealing who is is to Gordon, some dude just up and knowing who Batman is, 45 unnecessary minutes of movie, Batman taking a hiatus for eight years, a flying... Whatever it is, Bane's voice, and the fact Anne Hathaway looks like my ex who ripped out my still-beating heart and I had to look at her for three hours.


Ha!  But I loved all of those parts!   Uh... outside of the "looked like my ex" bit. :P

I know there have been some reviewers complaining about how long the movie was, but nothing in the film struck me as "filler." 

Just to help me understand your critique of the movie, what would you say were the 45 unnecessary minutes?

UnkoMan

I, for one, loved it. I didn't even notice it was so long.
I also thought it makes the first movie so much better. When Dark Knight came out I thought it made the first one seem weak by comparison, but this one brings it back full circle and makes Dark Knight, to me, seem like a little bit of fan pandering filler. I mean, it's still awesome, but gee whiz.

On the other hand I also found this movie pretty darn predictable, but I read a study somewhere that says that human brains apparently love getting guesses correct, so maybe that's why I loved it?

style

Spoiler
Didn't Like the Robin change of origin and name change
The Ultimate Fan!

murs47

Just got home from seeing...man oh man! I thought everything was excellent!

Spoiler
The twist with Miranda Bates I saw coming a mile away. That would be my only flaw. But that flaw is partially on my end from reading the comics, and having a greater understanding of the Bat universe than an average movie-goer would. I'm sure they loved it though.

deano_ue

Just seen it, and truthfully if you are one of the Nolan fans who want nothing but for everyone to praise this film and worship at nolans feet then skip this post, I don't need to deal with that. I have always loved the Nolan bat films(may not have liked fans) but the films are something I've always enjoyed

Ok first and foremost the film is a decent film, decent but in no way the epic masterpiece its being made out to be or even a brilliant comic book film. The story wasn't bad and had an interesting arc and the acting on some characters was quite enjoyable

Spoiler
Pros

Like I said the story was interesting and really flowed quite well.
The fights were well done
Hardy though having the shortfalls of the character(see cons) worked superbly has bane and did bring a lot to the character.
Hathaway was perfect, while I do not think she topped Pfeiffer, it was a different catwoman. Her acting was great and she controlled the screen anytime she was on. Smart sexy and sassy
Gordon-levitt really surprised me, I was dreading his character and he really played it well. It added to the story with out seeming forced in for the sake of the actor


Spoiler
Cons

The bat was overused yeah it looked cool and had an impact but constantly showing up made it lose any wow factor it had. At least the tumbler worked because you seen it once or twice and that's it
Banes design and voice was still extremely poor and near impossible to understand when he went on one of the speeches.
Blakes twist was easy to spot but come on his legal name is robin....robin. name him tim drake or dick grayson. If your going to hint at it be subtle not a sledgehammer to the face.
The bane twist did have me annoyed until the fixed it.
The Miranda twist was easy to spot but most of his did that well before anything even started filming
No mentioned of the joker, yeah yeah I know it was outta respect but come on with all this dren going on and jokers MO being about bringing chaos not even a mention. It was simple enough have Gordon say he's in lockup or bane say he wants nothing to do with the clown and that's it.
Everyone bloody knowing who batman is, blake I can kinda understand, and fox has been hinted at though again its never meant to be outright said let alone bruce suiting up in front of him. But Gordon come on the whole point is Gordon does not want to know, he could have known from day one but he chooses not to.
Alfred leaving.. seriously out of all his allies out of everyone who has been with batman the one man that would never leave him is Alfred.
The ending, that ending is a complete middle finger to the whole idea of batman. I was ticked when I called it early in the film that he was going to kill off bruce wayne, which is a stupid idea in this film and comics. But to then cop out with ahh here's the happy ending just made the whole thing even more pointless. The whole thing is simply a way for Nolan to take his toys and go home.
The film is a alright film, but and I know this will do nothing but make me enemies with people here but its no way as good as the avengers and I'm an avid dc comics fans over marvel.  the third film syndrome strikes again. Just a poor conclusion to the trilogy. Nolan really seemed to get it in, the dark knight. But this film really seemed like the message was its my universe and to hell with what's expected from anyone else. And I'll mess with the ideas all I want. Yeah I know my opinion will not make me any friends but that's all it is one batman fans opinion

I had avoided spoilers and literally knew very little about this film going in but even as I write this I'm having trouble even remembering a lot about this film and I never thought I'd say this about a Nolan batman film.

It's a low 2 ½ outta 5 for me at best

oldmanwinters

#12
Spoiler
I've always been one of those people who believes that "Batman would never retire!"

And while I still hold to that principle in comics and animation, Nolan actually made me believe that a real man who dresses up like a bat would eventually have to hang it up after a certain point.  The fact that a guy with no cartilage in his knees would be able to make a jump like he did in the Pit had to have been divine intervention.  And, with Wayne Enterprises bankrupt and the R&D department forever compromised (on a very public level), it's clear that "Bruce Wayne" could no longer exist in Gotham City as he once did.  He needed to retreat, heal, and enjoy life a little bit.

In my imagination, Nolan's Bruce Wayne and Selina Kyle won't necessarily live happily-ever-after.  Selina's obsession with adventure and questionable moral code will eventually drive a wedge between her and Bruce.  Bruce will eventually sense that Batman is needed again (because a "Nightwing" is never enough) and will attempt to get back into the fight, whether it's behind a mask or behind a computer screen, feeding information to a protege ala Batman Beyond.

But for the sake of Nolan's trilogy, Bruce Wayne (and the fans) deserve a happy ending... even if it wont' last forever.

Podmark

Just got back from seeing it and I loved it.
It's not as enjoyable as The Dark Knight, but it felt more satisfying or meaningful.

Spoiler

I loved the last few minutes. The scene with Alfred in Italy (?) was just perfect to me. Was that supposed to be Selina with Bruce? I wasn't sure.
Bane was good, and I like how everything tied into the first movie.
I really liked everything with the John Blake character, and now I want the next film to be him as Batman.
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oldmanwinters

Quote from: Podmark on July 22, 2012, 12:02:40 AM
Just got back from seeing it and I loved it.
It's not as enjoyable as The Dark Knight, but it felt more satisfying or meaningful.

Spoiler

I loved the last few minutes. The scene with Alfred in Italy (?) was just perfect to me. Was that supposed to be Selina with Bruce? I wasn't sure.

Spoiler

Yeah, it was Hathaway sitting with him.

murs47

Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on July 21, 2012, 10:52:49 PM
The film is a alright film, but and I know this will do nothing but make me enemies with people...

It's true. You having a polar opposite opinion on this movie is the equivalent to slapping my mother in the face. I hate you. :rolleyes:

Shogunn2517

First of all, TUE, I'm with you every step of the way.  You called it right from where I sit and I don't think I could agree with what you said much more.

Quote from: JeyNyce on July 20, 2012, 07:28:42 PM

Shogunn I think you missed on a few things:

Spoiler
1- Bruce didn't want to be Batman forever.  He made that clear in the first & second movie.  This was a way for him to "end" his career as Batman.  Also Bruce stated that "Anybody could be behind the mask" which leads to #2

2- The "throw away" reference to Robin was a bit more than that.  Remember that in the comics, Tim figure out who Batman & Robin was and he became the next Robin.  I figure Nolan did that for the fans because he said that Robin wasn't going to be in the film.

Here's the problem:

Spoiler
Not everyone CAN be Batman.  Not everyone is a master detective.  Not everyone is the worlds greatest martial artist.  Not everyone has the drive he does to do what he does.  The reason why he doesn't want to be Batman forever is because he wants Gotham to get to the point where it doesn't need a Batman.  That would be a perfect world.  A perfect world does not exist.  The REAL Bruce Wayne knows that.  At least he does in the comics.  This is why he literally can't stop being Batman.  The moment he does some other eight year old kid's parents are gonna get blown away.  In his world he CANNOT let that happen.  That's why Batman has to be Batman and John Blake can't be.  Not to mention John Blake was just some flat foot cop at the beginning of the movie.  He try to do what Bruce does he'd get himself killed in three hours tops.

But seriously though, if they said his real name was Richard or Tim or even Jason or better yet, TERRY MCGINNIS it would have worked ALOT better.  But to just use Robin as if Robin is even Robin's real name was like WTF?

OLDMANWINTERS,

Spoiler
Because I knew it was coming, I looked dead at her face and I swear it was NOT her.  I could be wrong, maybe I was looking to see my ex's face, but I really didn't think it was Hathaway.  Even if it was, I'm not convinced that wasn't what Alfred wanted to see.  He wanted to see Bruce at the cafe, like he said earlier in the movie.  That was his dream to see Bruce living a regular life.  But I don't think it wad so.

deano_ue

Quote from: murs47 on July 22, 2012, 05:28:38 AM
Quote from: the_ultimate_evil on July 21, 2012, 10:52:49 PM
The film is a alright film, but and I know this will do nothing but make me enemies with people...

It's true. You having a polar opposite opinion on this movie is the equivalent to slapping my mother in the face. I hate you. :rolleyes:


Well to be fair murs I did post that review on a few sites, and one or two have some really crazy nolanites ala rotten tomatoes going to attack any critic who does not give it 10/10 crazy

So that part may not have applied to here :)

JeyNyce

I do agree with you Shogunn:

Spoiler
John Blake name should have been Terry, because it looks like he was suppose to be the next Batman

Still, even though the movie is flaw, it's still a good movie.  It not like the fans can go online and start a petition to can the ending.  ;)
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Podmark

Quote from: JeyNyce on July 22, 2012, 12:08:07 PM
I do agree with you Shogunn:

Spoiler
John Blake name should have been Terry, because it looks like he was suppose to be the next Batman

Still, even though the movie is flaw, it's still a good movie.

Spoiler

Yeah Terry would have been the way to go but then the majority of the audience wouldn't get the reference. He's clearly set up to be Bruce's successor not his partner like Terry. Calling him Robin was the simplest way to get a shout-out.

That said I actually prefer him being an original character, I think it works better in this film, and minimizes us comparing his characteristics and origin to Dick or Tim or Terry and he can stand as his own character.

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on July 22, 2012, 07:10:03 AM
Here's the problem:

Spoiler

That's why Batman has to be Batman and John Blake can't be.  Not to mention John Blake was just some flat foot cop at the beginning of the movie.  He try to do what Bruce does he'd get himself killed in three hours tops.

Spoiler
I like to imagine Bruce already prepared for that and either left training instructions or plans to return to train him. That's what I see happening but who knows if we'll ever see a John Blake continuation.
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captmorgan72

I totally agree with Podmark with this
Spoiler
Yeah Terry would have been the way to go but then the majority of the audience wouldn't get the reference. He's clearly set up to be Bruce's successor not his partner like Terry. Calling him Robin was the simplest way to get a shout-out.

That said I actually prefer him being an original character, I think it works better in this film, and minimizes us comparing his characteristics and origin to Dick or Tim or Terry and he can stand as his own character.

Shogunn2517

#21
Quote from: Podmark on July 22, 2012, 03:39:22 PM

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on July 22, 2012, 07:10:03 AM
Here's the problem:

Spoiler

That's why Batman has to be Batman and John Blake can't be.  Not to mention John Blake was just some flat foot cop at the beginning of the movie.  He try to do what Bruce does he'd get himself killed in three hours tops.

Spoiler
I like to imagine Bruce already prepared for that and either left training instructions or plans to return to train him. That's what I see happening but who knows if we'll ever see a John Blake continuation.

That reminds me of the time when Batman had to retrain Cassandra on how to fight.  He gave her a CD with every fight discipline A to Z and she started at Aikido really excited by by the next pane she was at Z looking at Batman's image bored to death.  Funny.

That said:
Spoiler
She had already been trained to kill and just lost that ability, but was already a great fighter. Blake isn't.  Why would have Batman left plans to retrain someone?  He just started fighting again and the whole premise of him leaving wasn't so he could just retun to teach someone else to do what he feels he has to do.  But there won't be a continuation with Blake anyway because this was Nolan's last movie and for them to do ANOTHER Batman movie WITHOUT Bruce Wayne is a smack in the face to Bob Kane.

deano_ue

Quote from: Podmark on July 22, 2012, 03:39:22 PM


Spoiler
I like to imagine Bruce already prepared for that and either left training instructions or plans to return to train him. That's what I see happening but who knows if we'll ever see a John Blake continuation.

nope, wb are already talking full reboot to tie into the upcoming justice league concept, which makes the cameo even more pointless

Deaths Jester

Aside from the gripes mentioned above which I won't mention, my biggest gripe (which I mentioned even before the film came out) is how Anne Hathaway plays Catwoman like a bloody nuetered cat.  She has the chance to deliever the lines with such sexiness but never seems to actually succeed.  that and the way she walks doesn't exactly exude the sexy silkiness Catwoman is supposed to have.  I mean, come on, Catwoman is all about confidence and sexual allure..not whatever Hathaway brought about.

-DJ
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

GogglesPizanno

Quote from: Deaths Jester on July 22, 2012, 06:16:50 PM
Aside from the gripes mentioned above which I won't mention, my biggest gripe (which I mentioned even before the film came out) is how Anne Hathaway plays Catwoman like a bloody nuetered cat.  She has the chance to deliever the lines with such sexiness but never seems to actually succeed.  that and the way she walks doesn't exactly exude the sexy silkiness Catwoman is supposed to have.  I mean, come on, Catwoman is all about confidence and sexual allure..not whatever Hathaway brought about.

HEATHEN!
While I have gripes and issues with most recent comic movies (this one for sure as well) Anne Hathaway will never be one of them.

Deaths Jester

Quote from: GogglesPizanno on July 22, 2012, 07:11:08 PM
Quote from: Deaths Jester on July 22, 2012, 06:16:50 PM
Aside from the gripes mentioned above which I won't mention, my biggest gripe (which I mentioned even before the film came out) is how Anne Hathaway plays Catwoman like a bloody nuetered cat.  She has the chance to deliever the lines with such sexiness but never seems to actually succeed.  that and the way she walks doesn't exactly exude the sexy silkiness Catwoman is supposed to have.  I mean, come on, Catwoman is all about confidence and sexual allure..not whatever Hathaway brought about.

HEATHEN!
While I have gripes and issues with most recent comic movies (this one for sure as well) Anne Hathaway will never be one of them.

As herself, she isn't a problem...as Catwoman she is!
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

Tomato

Just got back from seeing it, so now I can actually read and respond to y'all's shenanigans.

DJ, you're being silly. While I agree with the statement that she wasn't quite as sexy in the role as Pfeiffer was, she wasn't trying to be... and in many ways, I felt her take on the character was intended to be much more genuine and realistic. If it had risen to the overt sexuality Pfeiffer's take had, it wouldn't have worked within the framework of the film, and would have turned the character into little more then fanboy jack off material. I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually liked Hathaway's Catwoman better because she actually felt like a real human being. And I'm sorry, I'd rather be dealing with a real woman then a purely fan-service whore any day of the week.

That said, I did feel like this film was a bit weaker then it's predecessor. It's nothing overt (Honestly, I felt like the pacing and action was actually much better in this film then in TDK) but it just didn't excite me as much overall. Maybe it's because TDK had my favorite batman villains and TDKR had one of my least favorite (I've never liked the other primary antagonist at all), so I'm not as invested in them as I was in Harvey Dent/Two Face, but even so it still kind of fell a bit flat. Still enjoyed it (more then Spiderman) but I won't be dragging everyone I know to repeated showings either.

Conduit

I really liked this movie. It wasn't as great as the Dark Knight (what is?), but it's still a really solid film, and a very satisfying end to the trilogy. The writing, directing, acting, etc. were all very good and, while the story felt a bit disjointed, it was paced well enough and kept my interest throughout.

Spoiler

Bane was great. He had a tremendous presence and generally felt like a scary, powerful villain. I also liked that he wasn't a dumb brute like certain other adaptations, here he was very intelligent and disciplined.

Anne Hathaway did a really good job as Catwoman (even if they never call her that in the film). She fit really well in the context of the film, and was just a really good character overall.

Having only a basic knowledge of the comics, I didn't see the "Talia" reveal coming at all, but once I got over the surprise, I remembered who the character was and thought that it was a genius twist. However, I can see how this may not work well for other people. I would imagine that people with a thorough knowledge of the comics would see the twist coming a mile away, while the general moviegoing public would just wonder who Talia was and why it had any significance.

At the end, I was about 50% convinced that Bruce had died in the explosion. After all, this was the end of the series, and Christopher Nolan has enough clout at this point to do almost anything he wanted with the character. But still, I kind of like the idea of Bruce Wayne faking his death and retiring. I think that it fits very well with his character in this portrayal and with the series as a whole.

I agree that the "Robin" twist was a little on the nose. I think it would have been better to make it more subtle, like some kind of obscure nickname or something a character said. However, I still think that this is a great way to conclude the trilogy while leaving the story open, so that we know that things are still going to happen after the credits roll.

And I just want to comment on how, like most bombs in movies, the timer on the reactor core had absolutely no relation to how long things actually took, either in the story or the film itself. I mean, it's 45 minutes away at night, then a few scenes later it's during the day, Batman, Gordon, and the police have prepared for the assault on city hall, and the timer is at about 15 minutes? And I also like how Wayne Enterprises put a big, dramatic timer on the core, for a decay process that either wouldn't happen or wouldn't mean anything if it was used as intended.

Also,

Spoiler
I understand why they didn't want to bring up the Joker, but the way they constantly talk about everything else that happened in The Dark Knight ends up making it feel like the elephant in the room. But I don't really know what would have been the best way to deal with a situation like this.

And you can't help but wonder what this movie would have been like if Heath Ledger had lived. I've heard people say that the story would have been the same and he would have made a brief cameo (like Scarecrow did), and while that sounds plausible, I'm not completely sure. The Dark Knight really seemed to set up a continuing rivalry. "I think we're destined to do this forever." Also, I don't think that the end of The Dark Knight was a proper set up for Bruce hanging up the cowl for 8 years. I think that Heath's death may have had an even greater impact on the series that most people assume.

There's one more thing. If we want to make sense of the story, we have to conclude that the Joker never escaped from prison/Arkham, as that would surely have brought Batman out of "retirement." He may have even been given the death penalty. It seems that, in the Nolanverse, the Gotham criminal justice system actually works.

BWPS

It's stupid how great this movie is.
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bredon7777

#29
Here's the thing about TDKR: It's a great 6th movie in a series of 6.  The problem is, of course, that its only the third movie.

They needed at least three more movies to properly set up this movie (although, to be fair, one of them could be a Catwoman solo movie. WB, if you're listening:I would watch the CRAP out of an Anne Hathaway solo Catwoman movie, and I pray you were smart enough to put that option in her contract. She was PURR-FECT (Death's Jester, I don't know who you were listening to- her line readings, especially as Catwoman, just dripped with sexiness to me), and you need to wash away the stain of that Halley Berry abomination).

The thing that was the most glaring of course was
Spoiler
The level of damage that Bruce has sustained.  We're supposed to believe he went into hiding the night Harvey died, which took place a few months after he became Batman, and yet he has the body of a man who has been doing this for years and years. I don't think so.  Another couple of movies would've done a great deal towards making this particular plot point more believable.

That was the biggest thing, but there were other things that would've benefited from given more time and more build up:
Spoiler
Alfred's attitude, the introduction of Miranda Tate, Wayne Enterprises financial trouble, etc.  Because these things were not given the proper build up, they all felt rushed.
.

But those are minor nitpicks on an otherwise brilliant film. I just wish we could've seen the films that would've set it up properly.

Oh, and shogun:
Spoiler

Sorry mate, it is very clearly Selina with Bruce. It's definitely Hathaway. Alfred got his wish for Bruce.
.

ETA: Also, WB, I would watch the crap out of a
Spoiler
Robin Blake becoming Batman
movie.  As long as you kept the same cast, at any rate. Just so you know.
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