Doctor Who Series 7

Started by Tomato, September 02, 2012, 09:27:02 AM

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Tomato

Just watched the first episode, wow.

Spoiler
I don't know what all to say about this one. The Daleks came back in a big way (after a much needed break, thank you Moffat) in this episode, with no less then two planets full of them. So much for the Doctor stopping their spread across the galaxy.

I do think the shock at the end might have been a touch obvious though, because I guessed it about halfway through the episode. I dunno if that's just because I'm just too clever for my own good, I've watched too much doctor who lately (been watching some of the third doctor serials the last few days), or if it's genuinely easy to get, but whatever.

"The Question" popped up again in this episode, and it's a genuinely interesting twist how it's included here. I argue that it takes away the Doctor's use of intimidation on the Daleks, but another fan who watched it about the same time pointed out that it also means he has the element of surprise with them again.

Talavar

I didn't...
Spoiler
see the twist with Oswin coming, so it wasn't that obvious.  Of more interest to me though, is that Oswin was played by the actress becoming the Doctor's new companion.  Clone, robot or evil twin?  Or maybe time travel shenanigans?

Tomato

Spoiler
Well, I knew that she wasn't what she seemed right from the beginning. Between whole thing with the wristbands protecting them being repeated, and the fact that the Doctor had already emphasized that her hacking skills were more then they should have been, I knew she wasn't what she seemed. Between that, the constant use of "Dalek vision" whenever we were looking at things from her point of view, and the fact that the Doctor emphasized the fact that they never were ALLOWED to see her... it kind of fell together a bit early on for me.

Mr. Hamrick

I knew something was up.  However, the extent of the twist both surprised and intrigued me.

Spoiler

I'm guessing Oswin shows up again in a similar manner.  I don't think we know her whole story yet.  One scenario that leapt out at me was that the new companion (Oswin) would be a deprogrammed or unsuccessfully programmed Dalek puppet.   Another one is that The Doctor is prompted to go back in time and save her.  However, the first has too many holes and the second is kinda lame. 

So a third.  There is more to her than "just being trapped" which leads to her showing up again in various capacities.  Then, The Doctor goes to find her after the Ponds' death.  She turns out to be some sort of AI. 


catwhowalksbyhimself

There's another possibility:

Spoiler
That she managed to escape in Dalek form and will be a Dalek the entire time on the show, but will show up in human form either in the same manner as in this episode, or possibly as a hologram or something similar.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Talavar

Dinosaurs on a Spaceship time!

Spoiler
Another solid episode, which was a pleasant surprise for me, given that it was written by the same fellow who wrote the half-baked Silurian two-parter in season 5.  I quite liked Rory's dad, and his little character arc (though wouldn't he have seen the Doctor & Tardis materialize before, as it did so at Amy & Rory's wedding?)

Mr. Hamrick

#6
Quote from: Talavar on September 09, 2012, 04:23:15 PM
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship time!

Spoiler
Another solid episode, which was a pleasant surprise for me, given that it was written by the same fellow who wrote the half-baked Silurian two-parter in season 5.  I quite liked Rory's dad, and his little character arc (though wouldn't he have seen the Doctor & Tardis materialize before, as it did so at Amy & Rory's wedding?)

Spoiler
He may have seen it materialize before at the wedding.  However, he has never had the thing materialize AROUND him which it did in this episode.  He also has never been inside The Tardis.  In addition, he would not be that familiar with who The Doctor is or what The Tardis is or anything about Rory and Amy's adventures.  If they had mentioned them, he'd likely have not believed them. 

Something that I noticed in this episode. 

Spoiler
There was no data on The Doctor in Solomon's database.  His interests in The Doctor were because he believed him to be a doctor and needed medical attention as well as his desire to turn the ship around so he could sell the dinosaurs.  He did seem to know who The Doctor was though.  I find this to be very curious given that Oswin wiped the information on The Doctor from The Daleks last week.  Could he have been wiped from all databases by her? 

Talavar

Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on September 10, 2012, 05:48:23 AM
Quote from: Talavar on September 09, 2012, 04:23:15 PM
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship time!

Spoiler
Another solid episode, which was a pleasant surprise for me, given that it was written by the same fellow who wrote the half-baked Silurian two-parter in season 5.  I quite liked Rory's dad, and his little character arc (though wouldn't he have seen the Doctor & Tardis materialize before, as it did so at Amy & Rory's wedding?)

Spoiler
He may have seen it materialize before at the wedding.  However, he has never had the thing materialize AROUND him which it did in this episode.  He also has never been inside The Tardis.  In addition, he would not be that familiar with who The Doctor is or what The Tardis is or anything about Rory and Amy's adventures.  If they had mentioned them, he'd likely have not believed them. 

Something that I noticed in this episode. 

Spoiler
There was no data on The Doctor in Solomon's database.  His interests in The Doctor were because he believed him to be a doctor and needed medical attention as well as his desire to turn the ship around so he could sell the dinosaurs.  He did seem to know who The Doctor was though.  I find this to be very curious given that Oswin wiped the information on The Doctor from The Daleks last week.  Could he have been wiped from all databases by her? 

Reply in spoiler vision:
Spoiler
I got the exact opposite impression, that Solomon did not know who the Doctor really was.  If he did, even without the price indexing software, I think he'd have been more interested in trying to sell the Doctor or the Tardis than dinosaurs or Nefertiti.  That the doctor was absent from database is suggestive though.  Another Oswin theory - she escaped as just data, a digital version of herself, and is scrubbing the Doctor from electronic records.  Later, she gets re-embodied somehow.

Now a Pond theory - for them, it's been ten months since the last episode, and after this one they also want to get dropped at home for an indefinite amount of time.  Given the numerous amounts of time the Doctor has skipped over in their lives, maybe they'll actually be aged out of doing this sort of thing any more, or something.  Given them leaving the show has been announced, and the death foreshadowing in this episode, I've got to think they're going to try and throw us a curveball.  And I hope they do - I don't like it when Doctor Who gets too maudlin, and it'd be hard to avoid that after the deaths of two long-time companions.

Mr. Hamrick

Quote from: Talavar on September 10, 2012, 01:19:39 PM
Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on September 10, 2012, 05:48:23 AM
Quote from: Talavar on September 09, 2012, 04:23:15 PM
Dinosaurs on a Spaceship time!

Spoiler
Another solid episode, which was a pleasant surprise for me, given that it was written by the same fellow who wrote the half-baked Silurian two-parter in season 5.  I quite liked Rory's dad, and his little character arc (though wouldn't he have seen the Doctor & Tardis materialize before, as it did so at Amy & Rory's wedding?)

Spoiler
He may have seen it materialize before at the wedding.  However, he has never had the thing materialize AROUND him which it did in this episode.  He also has never been inside The Tardis.  In addition, he would not be that familiar with who The Doctor is or what The Tardis is or anything about Rory and Amy's adventures.  If they had mentioned them, he'd likely have not believed them. 

Something that I noticed in this episode. 

Spoiler
There was no data on The Doctor in Solomon's database.  His interests in The Doctor were because he believed him to be a doctor and needed medical attention as well as his desire to turn the ship around so he could sell the dinosaurs.  He did seem to know who The Doctor was though.  I find this to be very curious given that Oswin wiped the information on The Doctor from The Daleks last week.  Could he have been wiped from all databases by her? 

Reply in spoiler vision:
Spoiler
I got the exact opposite impression, that Solomon did not know who the Doctor really was.  If he did, even without the price indexing software, I think he'd have been more interested in trying to sell the Doctor or the Tardis than dinosaurs or Nefertiti.  That the doctor was absent from database is suggestive though.  Another Oswin theory - she escaped as just data, a digital version of herself, and is scrubbing the Doctor from electronic records.  Later, she gets re-embodied somehow.

Now a Pond theory - for them, it's been ten months since the last episode, and after this one they also want to get dropped at home for an indefinite amount of time.  Given the numerous amounts of time the Doctor has skipped over in their lives, maybe they'll actually be aged out of doing this sort of thing any more, or something.  Given them leaving the show has been announced, and the death foreshadowing in this episode, I've got to think they're going to try and throw us a curveball.  And I hope they do - I don't like it when Doctor Who gets too maudlin, and it'd be hard to avoid that after the deaths of two long-time companions.

Nope, not the opposite impression about Solomon at all. 

Spoiler
He didn't seem to know who The Doctor was at all and his database didn't help him.  He thought of him as A doctor not The Doctor.

Regarding The Ponds' exit. 
Spoiler
The only things we know for sure about their exit is that 1) They are leaving.  2) The episode that they are leaving in involves Weeping Angels and NYC. (This last bit can be verified via photos published of them in NYC in Central Park during a break from filming as well as other photos.   We also know that The Doctor seems to be concerned for some reason and seems to know that something bad is about to happen that he won't be able to prevent.  This is furthered in the web series "Ponds' Life" that serves as a lead in to the events of the first episode.   

However, I do think there is a curveball here.  Consider this for a second: instead of killing The Ponds off, what if Amy and Rory tell The Doctor that don't want to travel with him anymore but in a much more "dramatic" fashion than Martha's exiting the 10th Doctor's side.  In essence, they come to conclusion that The Doctor has done as much harm as good to their lives.  Of course, the reason for this would be something that happens with The Weeping Angels in NYC.   

Another thought/note on Oswin.
Spoiler
Jenna Louise Coleman is not officially becoming The Doctor's companion until The Christmas Episode.  That episode lists Jenna as allegedly playing a character named "Clara".  It also contains the Sontarian and the Silurian lesbian from the "Demon's Run" episode.  What if Oswin and Clara are two different characters and "Clara" is the companion?  Probably not the case but....   

catwhowalksbyhimself

Some sources have listed Oswin's full name as Clara Oswin, make of that as you will.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Talavar

Mr. Hamrick: I must have misunderstood your first post.


Talavar

A Town Called Mercy aired this weekend - what did you think?  Though I enjoyed it, aside for a couple of points in spoiler-text, I don't have a lot to say about it.

Spoiler
I enjoyed the contrasting alien doctors in particular, and getting confirmation that the Doctor has indeed spending a lot of time without the Ponds (1200 years old now, almost another century older than he was by the end of last season).  Speaking of the Ponds, this episode didn't give either Amy or Rory much to do, and leads into them taking another break from travelling.

Talavar

Two more entries for Doctor Who have aired, the last until Xmas, and the last outing of the Ponds.  But first, the Power of Three: 
Spoiler
a pre-emptive goodbye for Amy & Rory, this episode is light on conflict and big on character, with the actual threat being resolved with a wave of the Doctor's sonic screwdriver.  Seeing the Doctor try to stand still is amusing, and the episode has some nice insight into the relationship between the Doctor, Amy & Rory - as well as some minor revelations: the Doctor is now 1200, and the Ponds have been with him, on and off, for ten years of their own time.  I like that the linear nature of previous incarnations of the Doctor/companions has been abandoned here - in a show about an immortal time traveller, why does his aging, or the time his companions spend with him, have to relate directly to the amount of time passing in the real world?  Also, the episode was a nice introduction for Brigadier Lethbridge-Stuart's daughter, new head of UNIT.  I hope we'll see her again.

Next was the Angels Take Manhattan:
Spoiler
here the Weeping Angels threaten once again, and have returned to their original mechanic of displacing their victims in time.  River is also back again, here a version much later from her own timeline (a professor now), and presumably closer to her own end-point.  In the end, the Ponds are displaced by the Angels, and live and die together, without the Doctor.  The time travel mechanics are a little wonky here, and while it's emotionally strong, it's narratively weak.  Sure, the Doctor couldn't take the TARDIS to 1938 New York again, but what about 1939?  1938 New Jersey?  Still, it manages to get the Ponds out with a somewhat happy ending for themselves, without the anti-climax of them just stopping or the major downer of them dying violently. 

It also makes me wonder how much more we'll see of River Song, as this episode, combined with some shorts filmed for the last season DVD release, seem to have filled in a lot of her and the Doctor's time together.

Mr. Hamrick

Quote from: Talavar on October 01, 2012, 01:10:23 PM
The time travel mechanics are a little wonky here, and while it's emotionally strong, it's narratively weak.  Sure, the Doctor couldn't take the TARDIS to 1938 New York again, but what about 1939?  1938 New Jersey?  Still, it manages to get the Ponds out with a somewhat happy ending for themselves, without the anti-climax of them just stopping or the major downer of them dying violently. 

It also makes me wonder how much more we'll see of River Song, as this episode, combined with some shorts filmed for the last season DVD release, seem to have filled in a lot of her and the Doctor's time together.[/spoiler]

Spoiler
No, the mechanics are not THAT wonky.  The Doctor mentioned that Amy doing what she did (and what had just happened to Rory) would create a "fixed point in time" which I think meant that The Doctor couldn't alter that point.  Basically, he could go visit them but he couldn't remove them from that point without causing a problem with the time stream.  (If I understand it correctly, that is.)  And I don't think he will visit because it would be too painful for him and them.

As for River, I will be kinda shocked if she pops up again on the series.  I will not be surprised if she pops up in literature or in a radio play.  I think River's comment to The Doctor was a way of "writing her out of the series" but allowing for a few more travels before her eventual demise.   

That said, I am looking forward to the Christmas episode.

Tomato

Spoiler
One interesting thing I noticed is that they made sure to point out that the Doctor was probably  the one going around erasing himself from the different databanks. So while Oswin might have given him the idea by erasing him from the memories of the Daleks, she doesn't seem to have deleted him from all the databases ever.

Talavar

Quote from: Mr. Hamrick on October 01, 2012, 09:33:05 PM
Quote from: Talavar on October 01, 2012, 01:10:23 PM
The time travel mechanics are a little wonky here, and while it's emotionally strong, it's narratively weak.  Sure, the Doctor couldn't take the TARDIS to 1938 New York again, but what about 1939?  1938 New Jersey?  Still, it manages to get the Ponds out with a somewhat happy ending for themselves, without the anti-climax of them just stopping or the major downer of them dying violently. 

It also makes me wonder how much more we'll see of River Song, as this episode, combined with some shorts filmed for the last season DVD release, seem to have filled in a lot of her and the Doctor's time together.[/spoiler]

Spoiler
No, the mechanics are not THAT wonky.  The Doctor mentioned that Amy doing what she did (and what had just happened to Rory) would create a "fixed point in time" which I think meant that The Doctor couldn't alter that point.  Basically, he could go visit them but he couldn't remove them from that point without causing a problem with the time stream.  (If I understand it correctly, that is.)  And I don't think he will visit because it would be too painful for him and them.

As for River, I will be kinda shocked if she pops up again on the series.  I will not be surprised if she pops up in literature or in a radio play.  I think River's comment to The Doctor was a way of "writing her out of the series" but allowing for a few more travels before her eventual demise.   

That said, I am looking forward to the Christmas episode.

The fixed point though...

Spoiler
is that Rory has to die at some point in the past, at the age of 85.  Theoretically, the Doctor could still comply with that by retrieving Amy & Rory, travelling with them until they're 80, then dropping them back off in that unspecified time period to die of natural causes.  Like his own "fixed-point" death last season, the requirements that must be met actually leave a lot of wiggle room.

catwhowalksbyhimself

Actually Tomato:

Spoiler

River assumed that the Doctor was erasing himself and he didn't say otherwise, but it's never actually said as far as I remembered.  Rule 1: The Doctor Lies.  Forgetting to mention something surely isn't beyond him.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Tomato

Spoiler
Well to be fair, that's why I said probably and not just that it definitely was him (and upon further reflection, I don't think it is. He was surprised when filch's scan was negative). However, I do think the continued references in the show imply something more is going on then oswin erasing him from all the dalek's minds.

Talavar

So, the 2012 Xmas special has come and gone.  Very interesting...

Spoiler
I like Clara Oswin Oswald; I liked her in Asylum of the Daleks, and I like her here.  That said, I wouldn't mind if Vastra, Jenny and Strax became companions either, and it was nice to see them again here.  Clara definitely is the same character, in some yet to be specified way, which has got be greatly intrigued.  The actual story this time out, however, felt slight.  It did have a surprising number of Classic Who shout-outs though, which I totally missed, and had to read about online.

catwhowalksbyhimself

I pretty much agree.  The episode itself was okay, but not great by itself.  The fact that it serves as a prequel to some of the earliest Dr. Who serials, and tells the origins of an early villain not seen in many years, however, makes up for that somewhat.

The stuff with the new companion, however, was great, and the revelation about her was one I hadn't thought of at all, so well played Moffat.  I am now eager to see more.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Mr. Hamrick

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 29, 2012, 02:32:15 AM
I pretty much agree.  The episode itself was okay, but not great by itself.  The fact that it serves as a prequel to some of the earliest Dr. Who serials, and tells the origins of an early villain not seen in many years, however, makes up for that somewhat.

The stuff with the new companion, however, was great, and the revelation about her was one I hadn't thought of at all, so well played Moffat.  I am now eager to see more.

And the best part is that we still are not 100% sure what that revelation about her means.   Out of all of it, I found the girl's line at the end the most interesting. 

Spoiler
"I don't believe in ghosts." 
So just who / what is Oswin?

And did you see the date on her tombstone?  I will assume people here know the significance of the born date for her.


On another note, it wasn't just a prequel to some of the earlier Doctor Who serials.  It's the beginning of the build to the 50th Anniversary of Doctor Who. 


RTTingle

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 29, 2012, 02:32:15 AM
I pretty much agree.  The episode itself was okay, but not great by itself.  The fact that it serves as a prequel to some of the earliest Dr. Who serials, and tells the origins of an early villain not seen in many years, however, makes up for that somewhat.

Only got into the most recent Doctor... would love more info on how this special tied into the previous incarnations.  Got a link I can followup on?

Talavar

Quote from: RTTingle on December 29, 2012, 07:09:20 AM
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 29, 2012, 02:32:15 AM
I pretty much agree.  The episode itself was okay, but not great by itself.  The fact that it serves as a prequel to some of the earliest Dr. Who serials, and tells the origins of an early villain not seen in many years, however, makes up for that somewhat.

Only got into the most recent Doctor... would love more info on how this special tied into the previous incarnations.  Got a link I can followup on?

Here's where I read about the connections to Classic Who: http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/2012/12/27/doctor-who-an-annotated-look-at-the-snowmen-christmas-special/

catwhowalksbyhimself

#23
You can also read about the villain here.

I should add that I also love the new opening sequence.  It's very similar to classic who openings with some modern updates and it looks pretty too.

The TV Tropes entry for this episode actually gets even more of the reverences than the article linked by Talavar, and in a more succinct and readable form.  In particular, check out the sections for Actor Allusion, Call Back, Continuity Nod, Mythology Gag, and Shout Out.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

catwhowalksbyhimself

And it's back!

Decent start to the half-season.  We now have what seems to be a Big Bad working in the background, drawn from long time Dr. Who lore.

Spoiler
It's the Great Intelligence who last appeared in The Snowmen, only now he's tackled with the Second Doctor and UNIT and knows them both pretty well.

Like the new companion just fine and look forward to seeing more.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Talavar

Yep, that was a good, solid - if not amazing - start to the second half the season.  I'm curious...
Spoiler
who it actually was that told Clara to call the Doctor).

catwhowalksbyhimself

That's a good question, and one that I forgot to address.  My best guess would be
Spoiler
River Song
but that's only a wild guess.

Also BBC has confirmed that David Tennant and Billie Piper will be resuming their roles for the 50th anniversary special.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Talavar

So a bunch of Doctor Who episodes have aired since anyone last posted in this thread - let's talk about them!  Unfortunately, thus far, I don't have a lot of great things to say about the second half of the 7th season.  The best of the lot has been Hide in my opinion, while Rings of Akhaten and Cold War were somewhat underwhelming.  The most recent episode, Journey to the Centre of the Tardis seems like such a missed opportunity...
Spoiler
giving us glimpses of something fans of wanted to see more of for years, but wasting it on an episode that retcons most of itself out of existence.
Here's hoping they turn things around in the last 3 episodes.

catwhowalksbyhimself

#28
Yeah I'm getting tired of that kind of episode in sci-fi fantasy in general.  If you're going to have a story have a story if you have to
Spoiler
undo it so that none of it really happened
it's generally completely pointless.  It had some good moments, but as you said, was a wasted opportunity that really revealed nothing and developed nothing.

I am looking forward to what might turn out to be a poorly disguised pilot next week for a spin off (at least I hope so) as Vastra, Jenny, and Strax take over for an episode.  REALLY hoping it's a pilot.

We also have Neil Gaiman returning to write another episode, this time revamping the Cybermen and I really can't see that going badly, so I think it's looking up.

EDIT:  Oooh, and Vastra, Jenny, and Strax will be back for the final episode too.  Good, I like that.  I don't mind Clara, but I'd actually be in favor of her being replaced by those three, if they don't get their own show. (which I'm still hoping for.)
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Talavar

I actually like Clara, except she's been kept on a character-development diet due to her earlier
Spoiler
deaths
.  She's not any part of my problems with the current batch of episodes.  I'd just like to actually learn something about her at this point.  That said, Strax, Vastra & Jenny are fabulous, and if they got a spin-off, I would watch it.