Topic: Costume Rating 6: All New X-Men

[Podmark]

So I said I would do this, took me a while to decide who to start with.

This is a costume response thread where you can rate and comment on selected superhero costumes. If things go well I'll post a few costumes every week or so and people can comment on it.

I'd like to see a rating because numbers are easy to digest. I suggest:

5 = Love it!
4 = Like it.
3 = It's okay/ meh / no strong feelings
2 = Dislike it
1 = Hate it!

I've selected two big name characters one from each of two major comics companies with two costumes each, a classic costume and a current costume. Seemed like a good way to start. This isn't really a which do you like better thing, just rate it how you like it. Ideally you should rate the costume outside of the stories they're used in but I'll leave that up to you.

Superman – classic


Superman – modern


Spider-Man – classic


Spider-Man – modern


I'll give my ratings later this week.

[Helix]

Pod -

I have been anticipating this thread since you mentioned it a few weeks back, but I am finding the rating concept difficult. From a pure design perspective I can easily tell you which costume I prefer, but that doesn't mean the one I like best represents the character.  So which perspective should influence my votes: the pure design perspective or the "best represents the characterr" perspective? In many cases, the answers will be different. For example:

Superman classic by design - 3
Superman modern by design - 4
Superman classic by character representation - 5
Superman modern by character representation - 3

Spiderman classic by design - 5
Spiderman modern by design - 3
Spiderman classic by character representation - 5
Spiderman modern by character representation - 4

If you leave it up to me to interpret the questions posed, then I may just score the from both perspectives and average it out to get my answer. But if you have a specific perspective in mind, let us know. Either way, I love the thread and I look forward to participating.

[Podmark]

Honestly it's up to you, you can leave out the rating entirely if you want. I just like numbers sometimes. Ultimately it's the comments and reasonings that I think people want to hear.

[BentonGrey]

Is the modern Spider-Man costume black instead of blue, or is that just weird coloring?  If the former, that's asinine. 

Superman Classic: 5
Superman Modern: 3

The classic costume is aesthetically perfect.  It's one of those classic DC costumes that were basically the ideal form of a superhero from the very get-go.  It's balanced, iconic, and an utterly apropos expression of who Superman is.

The modern version is not a bad costume, but with its more alien look it misses the point of who Superman is and what motivates him, and without the red trunks it is unbalanced.  It looks like it might belong to a Superman who is adventuring with the Legion.

[Podmark]

Is the modern Spider-Man costume black instead of blue, or is that just weird coloring?  If the former, that's asinine. 

This is one of those things that depends on the artist/colourist, but the intention is supposed to be that it's black based on the original character sheet.

It's worth noting that if my memory is correct the classic costume was originally supposed to be black as well. I believe it fell into the same hole of classic Cyclops where black with blue highlights became blue. Either that or the black Spidey colours didn't make it into the actual issues. I'm pretty sure it was one of the two.

[Helix]

Benton - I agree that Superman's modern costume is imbalanced. I would like to like the new costume better because I think the undies-on-the-outside trend in comics needs to die out, but it's difficult to embrace the new Supes design because of the color imbalance. Maybe the belt should be yellow? Or there should be some yellow trim on the top of the boots? I don't know.

Spiderman's classic costume is perfect. I've seen every incarnation of it (I think), but you can't beat the original.

[Ephemeris]

Superman classic-4  While I tend to dislike the spandex/cape/undies on the outside look, Superman's classic look is iconic.  Make a similar costume on anyone else and I'd think they were insane or unable to dress themselves in the correct order. 
Superman modern-3  The recessed areas of the belt needs hints of yellow.  Maybe make the buckle an "S" symbol.  Even the boots, sleeves or cape could have yellow piping along their edges to break the red and blue blandness of this costume.

Spider-Man classic-4
Spider-Man modern-4  I like the blue w/black shading more than the black w/grey highlights.  This costume is still recognizable even to the most casual observer.

[oldmanwinters]

Classic Superman = 5
Modern Superman = 1.5
Classic Spider-man = 4.5
Modern Spider-man = 4

I'm not a fan of the Superman costume sans red tights."  The classic Superman costume is probably the best costume of them all, but I don't mind seeing different versions of the S shield on the chest.  It makes for some cool variations.

Also, I think the "Classic" Spider-man costume pictured here isn't the original design.  The original didn't have the Spider chest logo in such a stylized scarab design.  I think it might have looked more like the red spider logo on the back of his suit.

Is the modern Spider-Man costume black instead of blue, or is that just weird coloring?  If the former, that's asinine. 

I'll admit it... I really like the red on black design for the Spidey costume.  That was always my most desired alternate palette I wanted to see during my Marvel Vs. Capcom playing days.  I like it because it reminds me of the super cool all-black symbiote costume while still preserving that classic Spider-man pattern on the upper torso.

[Helix]

Oldmanwinters - I apologize. I misspoke. While the Spidey Classic costume pictured is not the original design, I would still call it classic. As with most superheros costumes, "original" and "classic" are not synonymous.

[Tomato]

Superman (both)- 4

I'd put both costumes at about the same place, personally. I think the Classic has some slight edges over its Modern counterpart overall (the boots have always irritated me... Superman's boots should have the "M" shape, and I agree about the belt) but it loses a bit with the outdated "underwear on the outside" thing. I still like both, but neither are perfect. I actually really like his "normal" look in Injustice. Modernizes the look, keeps the details the modern costume SHOULD have kept, and does away with the trunks.

Spiderman
Classic-5
Modern-4

I don't think this one is a fair contest, in the same way as comparing Modern Cyclops to Classic Cyclops would not be a fair contest. "Modern" Spidey ISN'T the classic Peter Parker, it's doc ock in his body. The changes to the costume reflect that.

[oldmanwinters]

Oldmanwinters - I apologize. I misspoke. While the Spidey Classic costume pictured is not the original design, I would still call it classic. As with most superheros costumes, "original" and "classic" are not synonymous.

Aw, yes, that's true!  Same thing is true for Superman, Batman, and most superheroes.  Their original look isn't necessarily their most familiar.  I think the "classic" designation left me a little confused.

[Podmark]

Oldmanwinters - I apologize. I misspoke. While the Spidey Classic costume pictured is not the original design, I would still call it classic. As with most superheros costumes, "original" and "classic" are not synonymous.

Aw, yes, that's true!  Same thing is true for Superman, Batman, and most superheroes.  Their original look isn't necessarily their most familiar.  I think the "classic" designation left me a little confused.

Yeah that's what I meant. Perhaps iconic would have been a better word.

[Podmark]

Meant to get to this earlier but I've been busy this week.

Superman classic- 4
I was really iffy on giving this a 3 but decided to give it a 4. The positive of it is that it is the quintessential iconic superhero costume. The negative of it is that today it's on the bland side. Still, good logo, colours, and balance. It's a strong look.

Superman modern - 2
My main problem with this one is all the lines. It just looks way too busy. Additionally this is advanced tech armor, but Superman is isn't an advanced tech character. He's iconic strength and flight. The armor just doesn't fit. Most importantly I just don't like the look of it, probably because of the unbalanced colours.


Spider-Man classic - 4
Part of me wants to give this a lower rank because it's such a silly costume when you really look at it. All those spider line over red and blue pajamas. Why is a spider character red and blue. Regardless it looks good and fits the semi/sometimes bright world of Spider-Man. The best parts are the eyes (especially the bigger Bagley style ones) and the red spider emblem on the back.

Spider-Man modern - 4
These two costumes are really similar so it's difficult for me to change the mark at all. The weak spot of this new costume is more jagged cut of the red in spots. The strong spot is (again) the eyes and the spider emblems on the front and back. The black body suit is pretty snazzy too. Pretty good redesign in my opinion.

[bat1987]

Supes classic - 4
Vibrant color, look, prolly the most recognizable costume of all time. Sadly it didn't age too well. But for its iconic appearance it gets a 4.

Supes modern - 4.
I like the origin of the suit, and how it forms around Kal's body. The amount of lines can be pretty distracting, it really depends on the artist, some can make it work, some can't.

Spidey classic - 4
Can't shake the feeling that it always looked like pajamas to me. As iconic as it is, I really think they should have changed it more with time. Only gets a 4 for being enduring.

Spidey modern - 4
Not much if a change here really. I like the more tech used in the suit, which makes sense considering who's in it.

The upcoming costume update however is really hardcase, really hope Peter doesn't drop it when he comes back. I think its a nice redesign.
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/news/a470744/spider-man-arrives-at-shadowland-with-new-costume.html
 

[Helix]

Bat1987 - I'll reserve judgement on the new Spidey costume until I see a better artist draw it. Whoever drew the pic your previewed made him look androgynous. Its seriously creepy.

[Courtnall6]

Superman Classic - 5

Balanced, simple, and easy to draw. Even a child can do it. Imagine that!

Superman Modern - 1

Concept alone gave this outfit a 1. The Man of Steel should not be in any form of armour. Also being covered in more pointless line work doesn't help.

Spider-Man Classic - 4

One of the best overall costumes ever put together. It loses a point because of that damn webbing can be so tedious at times to draw!

Spider-Man Modern - 3

"Meh" is right. Not much point of a redesign here. It's just and "sharper" "edgier" version of the original. Really don't like the bulging eyes...but I guess that has to do more with who's behind the mask.

The upcoming Spider-Man costume is basically a slightly altered version  of Alex Ross's movie concept. "Meh" again.

[Tomato]

again, the modern spiderman is a just a few minor alerations relecting the fact that this is otto as spiderman, not peter.

[Podmark]

Took me a while to get back to this. Honestly I had trouble deciding on which characters to do. I decicded on classic Flash, and current Captain America.

Flash (classic):



Captain America (current):



So once again just tells us what you think. I recommend using the 1-5 rating seen earlier in the thread.

[Podmark]

Here's my ratings:

Flash (classic) - 3
I would have given this a 2 but some artists make it look great (example Francis Manapul - awesome artist). The all red body suit with just a dash of yellow here and there has just never worked for me.


Captain America (current) - 3
This is a another borderline 3 for me. When I first saw I thought it looked horrible, just a mess of overly complicating crud on the standard Cap costume...but now that I've seen a number of artists take on it it's not that bad, especially since most streamline the design a bit. It has a nice advanced military design that can work especially in the context of Cap upgrading to confront tougher foes (which is how it was introduced). Not the best Cap costume by any means but it can work.

[Courtnall6]

Classic Flash - 4

Simple, clean, easy to draw and always liked the colour scheme (although the blue and silver variant as seen in the old Flash live action TV show was pretty slick too). All the marks are here for a well designed superhero costume.

Current Captain America - 1 only because I can't give it a 0.

Ugh. Typical modern day artist over designed nonsense. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too busy. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too complicated to draw. Obvious and lame attempt to tie into the Avengers movie costume...which is also a crappy version of Cap. Oh yes...and more pouches he will never use. He's not Batman. Gotta love it when they add on crap for the sake of adding on crap. Garbage from head to toe.

[Cyber Burn]

I'll more or less agree with C6 on this one.

Classic Flash: 5---This is always been one of my favorite superhero costumes (I would mind seeing the blue and silver one that C6 mentions), it's simple, it's not mugged down by unnecessary details, it's classic.

Current Cap: 1---Sorry, but classic Cap was just that, classic, there was nothing wrong with his old uniform, and changing it was unnecessary. This version is bogged down by excessive details, and to me, it just isn't Cap.

[Tomato]

The color scheme on Pollox (Blue/Silver clone flash C6 mentioned is ok, but he has one of the dorkiest symbols ever and I don't know what they were thinking with it.

Flash (Classic Barry Allen)- 4. It's above average, but there are elements that were perfected in the Wally West version later on, such as the better belt, the lack of wings on his boots (I'm sure there are people who like them aesthetically, but from a purely practical sense those things would fall off every time ever) and I feel like going back to this design is a step backwards.

Captain America (Modern)- 3. It's meh, and I agree with C6 that it is a ripoff of the movie costume. Still, I don't think it's nearly as bad as he's saying it is either... for what it is, it's actually decent. Unlike other "Modernized" cap looks, there's no stupid browns or grays in there (because brown makes everything seem more realistic, said no-one ever) so it keeps the basic color scheme of the original, just with some (admittedly pointless) additional detail. I do have to disagree about the pouches though... this isn't a 90s design, it's not like there are pouches all over his costume. He has a few pouches on his belt to make up for the lack of pockets on his costume.

[Courtnall6]

I couldn't really remember the symbol they gave the Flash clone...had to google it. It is pretty dorky and way too big! 

One pouch is too much for Cap let alone four. He never needed them before and still doesn't. Like I said. Adding crap for the sake of adding crap.

Look at those gloves and how long it would take just to draw them. Or the complicated hexagonal pattern rather than simple scale/chain mail. Ridiculous. This kind of design belongs in live action movies and cg animation. A medium where you don't have to repeatedly draw it 50 times or more per issue. Marvel's hyper realism is way out of control.

[bat1987]

The Flash - 5

One of my all time favourites! Sleek, cool color combo. One of those costumes I felt they really shouldn't have changed in new52 (and the change they made is just for change's sake)

Cap - 3

To be fair I am not a fan of classic Cap's costume either. But this is an OK change, really looks a lot like a modern soldier in that getup (which I assume is what they were going for both here and in the movie).

[hoss20]

The Flash - 4
It's just classic. It's charm is it's simplicity. The contrast of the red and yellow fits perfectly.

Captain America - 3
I'm only ranking it this high because they basically kept the color scheme/design from his classic costume. What's up with the steampunk boots? You go ultra modern with the calf portion and then still have him with laces? I realize it's difficult, if not impossible, to realistically put on firm high boots and the laces may be necessary, but, come on, it's a superhero costume. Plus, it look like the calf pieces would just snap on anyway. Are those supposed to be forearm guards worked into the gloves? I guess he could make use of those since he doesn't carry around a shield or anything. Oh, wait; he does! I'm with C6 on this one. There's just too much unnecessary crap in an effort to make it look modern.

[Podmark]

C6, you think thats too complicated, you should see the original design sketches for Cap's new costume. Just an insane amount of detail and complicated bits.

Look at those gloves and how long it would take just to draw them. Or the complicated hexagonal pattern rather than simple scale/chain mail. Ridiculous. This kind of design belongs in live action movies and cg animation. A medium where you don't have to repeatedly draw it 50 times or more per issue. Marvel's hyper realism is way out of control.

See this is an interesting point. I'm not a comic artist so when I look at a design I don't really think about how difficult it is to draw. I'm just thinking about a) do I like it? and b) does it work for the character. And I am comparing it to other design in comics and other mediums including video games and movies, so generally simple designs tend to bore me unless there's something really compelling about it.

I recently read a comment from a comic artist saying that the new Cap costume is a pain to draw. I can't remember who it was though. So obvious some artists feel just like C6, and others must be okay with complicated designs - artists created them after all.


Also I like pouches, particularly for military/black ops/commando type characters. Something about them just seems to add the right amount of weight and balance to a design for me.

[Helix]

I 90% agree with C6. The other 10% belongs to Tomato because the Wally West Flash uni is better. New Cap is just horrible. I'm not opposed to updating his look a bit, but not like this. His new costume looks like it can fulfill 58 more functions than it actually can. He looks Iron Man-ish.

[BentonGrey]

Being properly chastised after looking at the original Spider-costume, I retract my condescension, though the blue looks vastly better.

There are lots of good points here already, but I'll throw in my two cents just the same.

Flash - 5
Like most of the rest of the original JLA, Flash's costume is darn near perfect.  I won't disagree with 'Mato that Wally's belt was better, but we're talking about grades of awesome, so I don't really think it's worth knocking a point off.  I don't think any other costumes is as good of an example of perfection and simplicity combined in such a great marriage as is this almost all red super-suit.  It's amazingly simplistic, and yet it is perfect for the character.  At the same time, it is unique; there's basically nothing else like it in comics that isn't derivative OF it.

Modern Cap - 3
I absolutely agree that it's over-complicated, over-designed, and generally over-everything other than awesome.  It's a pretty perfect example of the problem with messing with these classic costumes.  They really did capture lighting in a bottle, and adding to it is just gilding the lily.  This isn't a BAD costume, just not particularly good.  At least armor somewhat suits Cap, unlike Superman.

[Tomato]

I couldn't really remember the symbol they gave the Flash clone...had to google it. It is pretty dorky and way too big! 

One pouch is too much for Cap let alone four. He never needed them before and still doesn't. Like I said. Adding crap for the sake of adding crap.

Look at those gloves and how long it would take just to draw them. Or the complicated hexagonal pattern rather than simple scale/chain mail. Ridiculous. This kind of design belongs in live action movies and cg animation. A medium where you don't have to repeatedly draw it 50 times or more per issue. Marvel's hyper realism is way out of control.

See, I'm looking at it from a practical point of view... I work all day in scrubs, and one of the most annoying things for me as a guy is having to carry around keys and wallet and stuff (women can just stick that stuff in a purse, but men must suffer without them) when the most common scrub pants have like, one pocket. Even assuming cap doesn't need to carry around keys to the Quinjet or his Avengers ID badge, what if the dude just wants to have a stick of gum on hand?

Yes, having 20 pouches for ammo and gadgets is inane 90s garbage and that trend needs to go away. But on a uniform that features no pockets, I'm perfectly fine with a couple of discrete pouches on his belt.

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, I mostly agree with that, 'Mato.  At least those pouches aren't terribly noticeable, and they aren't too numerous.