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Author Topic: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!  (Read 30590 times)

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #450 on: December 03, 2018, 03:31:37 PM »
Entirely true, SS.
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Offline stumpy

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #451 on: December 03, 2018, 05:11:10 PM »
I have to say, there is always some chance that the shows aren't being renewed because... the most recent season wasn't all that great? I very much enjoyed most of the Netflix Marvel shows when they were starting up. Then there was the whiny Iron Fist, then a poorly paced second season of Luke Cage, and so on. We have been sort of planning to watch the latest season of Daredevil, and may or may not give Iron Fist another shot. But, the enthusiasm is not very high.

BTW, I have been reading that Disney properties have been losing old-style cable subscribers, particularly as cord-cutting marches on. Perhaps because of that, Disney (and CBS, etc., etc.) have been considering an "exclusive content" view of their streaming services. I understand that they want to drive subscriptions and correctly see that the traditional cable cash cow may be going away. But, they have to understand at some level that streaming subscribers aren't looking to subscribe to 20 services. Disney may have enough desirable content to justify a separate subscription for some people. But, Disney could also monetize their content the way they have, by partnering with companies like Netflix. There is no rule that Marvel TV shows can't be both on Netflix and on a Disney streaming service. Remember, Netflix pays them for that content. And, Netflix subscribership is growing.

I am not hoping to see Disney buy Netflix. Less competition in online services will only hurt consumers.
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Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #452 on: December 04, 2018, 12:50:50 AM »
Benton: Yes, I also was thinking the other night that Disney might as well buy Netflix like they buy everything else. Honestly, I'd rather they did that. This whole split-up-all-the-content thing is the pits and the consumer gets screwed over by it. As I said earlier, I miss the days where you could just watch all your shows on tv. Getting to watch all your favorite shows shouldn't feel like work. It shouldn't be stressful. But it is.
The backlash has already started.  Online TV piracy rates had fallen to almost nothing after the prevalence of all these streaming option, but now with the splintering up into various pay for stream sites, TV piracy is skyrocketing again.  People are willing to pay a reasonable fee for their shows, but make it DIFFICULT and they'll just take it instead.  And there isn't a whole lot that companies can do about that if they insist on fighting the customers instead of just giving them what they want.

Disney's best bet woudl have actually been to buy the rest of their partners out of Hulu, since those companies seem less than invested in it, yet it's original shows are very popular and it's one of the big three streaming brands.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2018, 12:52:36 AM by catwhowalksbyhimself »
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #453 on: December 04, 2018, 04:26:07 AM »
Absolutely. We talked about that earlier and I said no surprise, because it's not a surprise. The key word that none of these greedy companies seem to grasp is "convenience." Once upon a time Napster reigned supreme until Itunes was created and all of a sudden people actually felt inclined to pay for their music. Comics have Comixology. Honestly? I think Comixology might be the smartest move the comics industry has done in my entire lifetime, because now if you miss your book at the store, or don't want to bother with the drive to the store and comics lining your shelves and filling your boxes, you can just buy them there on your tablet day one lickety split and they're going to have every book. They adapted to and competed with the modern world and found a way to turn pirates into customers.

These streaming services are the exact opposite of all of that. You're making it less convenient, more time consuming, more difficult to see your content (legally, pirating a major new show takes less time than it takes to take a shower if you already know how) which is the exact wrong move in this age. You need a gosh darn flow chart just to keep track of all your Marvel, DC and Star Wars content, never mind if you want to get caught up on Game of Thrones, Westworld and Rick and Morty (I use a notepad file myself). But when my friends are over on Sunday for pizza, games and shows they want to be able to watch Game of Thrones, Westworld or Rick and Morty right away, and none of them seem to value supporting content they like as much as I do.

You have fans online who want to be able to see Rick Grime's final episode of Walking Dead day 1, catch up to the day 1 front page spoilers and start sharing memes on Twitter and Tumblr. You have to adapt to and start appealing to that market. You can't just bury your head in the sand and assume people are going to pony up for a streaming service purely for a divisive Star Trek and a heavily derided Titans. You can't just take away the content people loved (and payed for) and then expect them for pony up for the Disney service for Scarlet Witch and Loki streaming shows (actual things promised by the way) because "We're Marvel bay-bay!" I go to the theater to see Infinity War. I pay that for THAT movie. I don't pay for a Moviepass so I can watch IW and NOT watch Venom, Aquaman and Wreck it Ralph 2, but still pay for them, because I don't want to see those movies, I want to see the one I actually like. That's how it works. And hey, at least that would include non-Disney movies lol!

I have to say, there is always some chance that the shows aren't being renewed because... the most recent season wasn't all that great? I very much enjoyed most of the Netflix Marvel shows when they were starting up. Then there was the whiny Iron Fist, then a poorly paced second season of Luke Cage, and so on. We have been sort of planning to watch the latest season of Daredevil, and may or may not give Iron Fist another shot. But, the enthusiasm is not very high.

A lot of people did like Daredevil S3 and Luke Cage S2 though. I don't know if Netflix and/or Disney was concerned with that vs. viewership numbers, but they weren't getting bashed far and wide like Iron Fist was.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 09:05:25 PM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #454 on: January 11, 2019, 01:22:04 AM »
BTW, new trailer for the Punisher has apparently released for Season 2's release next week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrLhP5sK2wI

Two main problems with what I'm seeing:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline daglob

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #455 on: January 11, 2019, 02:11:54 AM »
General answer to your last question: because someone involved in the production thinks this is an improvement over the silly comic book.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #456 on: January 11, 2019, 03:03:24 AM »
No, because being able to go over the top with it would be shocking to people who don't already know the character, which is something the Netflix shows have been prone to be. More likely it's a combination of two factors: A. They don't want to spend the money on designing the makeup, since this is the final season and that's money they don't want to spend and B. The actor probably doesn't want his face covered up.

Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #457 on: January 20, 2019, 11:09:12 AM »
Well, finished season 2 of The Punisher.  And it took some warming up(maybe a lot of warming up), but it got going and I gotta be honest, I think while the first season was technically better I enjoyed this season more... I think is precise.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

If this is how the series ends, I'm happy with it. It wasn't perfect. It was fairly confusing at times, but it seemed like a vehicle for the Punisher to be the Punisher. Which if you're a fan, you definitely should love and if you just want to see an action-filled thriller, you should enjoy it too.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #458 on: January 20, 2019, 11:33:48 AM »
You could have gonne with The Rev.But I guess that doesnt really work either.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #459 on: January 21, 2019, 12:22:59 AM »
I didn't enjoy it that much myself. Yeah, there were some brutal fights, but I wasn't crazy about how they used Frank for most of it (though Berenthal still sells it with his acting) I was disappointed with how Russo was used, and I found myself seriously zoning out for the middle. More than any other Marvel Netflix show (even Iron Fist!) this was the one where I was agreeing with people who say these shows drag on too long.

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« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 09:13:34 PM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #460 on: January 21, 2019, 02:19:38 AM »
I can see that SS. Particularly through the middle parts. I got the sense that many may not dig it.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #461 on: January 21, 2019, 02:38:09 AM »
Yeah, I'd say it was a bit all over the place. It took quite a while for the various plots/subplots to come together but I dunno, I guess I'm used to that by now in these shows, and you already covered the show's plot pretty thoroughly.

Oh one thing that came to mind:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

OH, one other thing I totally forgot about: This season of Punisher brought to you by Coca Cola. Boy oh boy was it ever brought to you by Coca Cola. Every other scene that girl was either drinking a Coke or, in one case early on, talking about wanting a Coke.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 02:42:26 AM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #462 on: February 21, 2019, 03:36:59 AM »
And, as expected, the remainder of the shows were cancelled.  RIP Netflix Marvel shows.
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #463 on: February 21, 2019, 05:07:32 PM »
JJ season 3 is finishing, that should be clarified. Also, there are rumors Hulu wants to revive them but is waiting for the deal to finish with Disney.

Frankly though... I think what's there is fine. I'm excited to see JJ's conclusion (I may not have liked s2 a ton, but it ended well) DD got a great send-off, and IF's ending at least promised better material than we ever got.

Offline Silver Shocker

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Watched Jessica Jones season 3. Not too bad, it is better than season 2, but as an ending to the Marvel Netflix experiment, it's a bit bittersweet. And, like the last few, it goes on just a bit too long. Wasn't crazy about a major character turn. Carrie Ann Moss was the best thing in the season. Who, watching the Matrix movies back in the 2000's, could have predicted that? I found her, along with Trish, Malcolm and Ritter as Jess (regardless of her actual plot) to be the saving graces of the not-great S2, and that trajectory is consistent here. Eric felt like an obligatory love interest character, who didn't really need to be there.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 09:18:58 PM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline Shogunn2517

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Well, I was enjoying this season until I came here and read what SS wrote. I don't know why. I couldn't help myself for some reason. I wasn't looking at this as "oh cool spoiler, I wonder how spoilery, what's it say?" I was actually thinking "Oh Silver Shocker is saying something and I want to finish reading what he saying" almost as if it was a "continue reading" tab you'd see on FB or something and I clicked it and bam, the first sentence. And I was thinking "Crap! Why did I just click that!?" And I had to convince myself that I read it wrong... and I actually thought I did for a while. Then I didn't. Then I did. And then I didn't again.

I'm kidding, SS! That was all me. Lol.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But like I said overall, I really enjoyed this. Definitely more than the second. Maybe more than the first because here the characters all seemed more "complete" versions of themselves. As I think about it, months removed, Punisher 2 is quickly becoming my favorite season, followed by DD1 and LC1. But this is up there among those to me. Maybe my opinion will rise. That said, it was a good ending IMO. Maybe I'd want that character turn to go another way, but I'll take it for what it's worth.

Offline Silver Shocker

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Sorry about that Shogunn. I definitely could have stated "Spoilers under the cut", but didn't think of it. And if it really did end up enhancing your experience, then glad to hear it.  In any case, glad to hear you enjoyed the season.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 12:09:53 AM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #467 on: October 31, 2019, 03:34:19 AM »
Surprised to see another post here?  Well, while not quite confirmed, there are a LOT of rumors going around that all of the characters from these shows are being brought back fully into the MCU with the exception of Iron Fist and all of his cast.  There's a possible Daredevil movie with most of the series cast as well as a good possibility that Luke Cage joins the New Avengers team.  If true, it's good that these shows are not being dropped completely out of the MCU.

Iron Fist, however may be rebooted completely with an entirely new cast.
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Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #468 on: October 31, 2019, 05:51:48 AM »
Honestly, I've been hearing that they've been campaigning like real hard to reprise their roles in some way. At least the Daredevil and Punisher stars, that I do know. Somehow I gotta imagine that with three stars of two of the series on CBS primetime(with Evil also being picked up for a 2nd season), things might be a bit more difficult.  Overall, it'd be a shame for them to go away. The fan reaction, in a day and age where fan toxicity is extreme, it's responded well. Even surprisingly to Iron Fist 2nd season. SO yeah it'd be a complete shame if they left.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #469 on: October 31, 2019, 06:01:13 AM »
I'd like to see more from these series, even in a different form, but I think that the stuff about IF being excluded is... problematic. Yes, S1 is... not great (it's a martial arts show with bad martial arts) but at the same time... I did like some of the supporting characters and the problems with Danny were how he was written, not how he was acted, as he was much better in LC season 2. But in addition to that, now we're going right back to the same problem we had at the start of the series: Who to cast. You cast a white dude everyone goes nuts because it's still a white man assimilating another person's culture. Make him Asian, great, now you've made the martial arts guy an asian because that isn't a stereotype at all, not to mention upsetting purist fans. You make him something else, now you've ticked off both camps.

For all the issues one can, deservedly, give Iron Fist, by the end of Season 2 they'd found a good third option. Danny was OG Iron Fist, but has since transferred the mantle to Colleen Wing. You now have the focus of the series on an Asian actress without it feeling forced, and Danny is still around with power (somehow) in his classic comic book form getting to run around and team up with Luke Cage, which is what most of us wanted to see happen anyway. They just needed to give him a bloody costume.

Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #470 on: October 31, 2019, 01:02:01 PM »
Allegedly IF's exclusion is because Fegi doesn't like that series, but likes the other ones and the TV stuff now falls under him as well.

Apparently the plans are to recast Danny as Asian.

Given that the rumored plans for DD and LC are for movies rather than tv the inclusion of actors in other tv shows shouldn't be too big of a deal.  Plus these are a couple years off probably.  Supposedly as part of the Netflix deal they have to wait that long before using the characters again anyway.
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #471 on: October 31, 2019, 03:45:12 PM »
Mehhhhhh...

Listen, y'all know I am the last person to complain about diversity casting, but that would not be a good move. Between Shang Chi and Iron Fist, both of the headlining Asian characters of the MCU would be relegated to the Martial artists, and that's not a great look. I'd almost rather see a third option... Arabic, Latino, Israeli, etc. since that eliminates the white savior complaint while also not reinforcing stereotypes.

That's not to say I can't see an Asian Danny, son of Chinese/Japanese executives who comes home after becoming the iron fist and resulting in that same modern vs historic culture conflict as the source material. I just REALLY don't like the idea of the Asian lead roles all being relegated to the kung Fu movies.

Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #472 on: November 02, 2019, 04:30:08 PM »
Not just Shang Chi, but I'm almost certain when(if) they cast Namor he'd very possibly be Asian and I wouldn't have a problem with that at all.  Not that there need to be a quota of diversity, but there's a REASON why Shang Chi was being pushed. It's a bonefide character to showcase the publisher's diversity. I get that I support that.

But I'm sorry, if they're really trying to make Danny Rand a rich guy that grows up in Asian culture Asian then what's the point of even calling him Iron Fist. That ain't Iron Fist anymore and it's just ridiculous. Extremely ridiculous. Who the hell are you trying to please doing something as silly? The character is NOT Asian. Part of the character's actual character is being just a white guy. It's that characteristic that IS a story element. And there's nothing wrong with that. What would be wrong (or problematic really) is to make everybody else white with him. But they went out of their way to make Asian culture a big part of the show and they could have not.

I've said it before. I know I'm not Asian so I can't claim a full supportive or offended position. But I know from where I sit, when I hear rumors like casting Micheal B. Jordan or a Will Smith as a Batman or Superman and I'm thinking what for? There are a TON of actually black superheroes I'd rather see. Why make Superman black, just give me Icon.(errrr duh look at the pic lol)  Just the same, I know there aren't a ton of Asian superheroes to celebrate, but I'm really not a big fan of shoehorning a whole different race on another character for just because reasons. Particularly when you're doing it at the expense of other characters and other stories I think audiences would love to see and fanboys would crave.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #473 on: November 02, 2019, 05:00:34 PM »
TBF, I can see Iron Fist as non-white, and I do get that his whole backstory is a white savior narrative (last samurai, etc.) which is why Danny being white IN PARTICULAR is a problem for a wider audience in today's world. And it's a no win situation, because they can't just NOT do Iron Fist because of his long history with Luke Cage. However, my stance is that the choice isn't binary, and even if it was, making him asian is the more racially divisive choice because not only are you going against the comic version of the character, but doing so to lean INTO racial stereotypes like the Asian being the Martial Arts guy.

Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #474 on: November 02, 2019, 11:12:12 PM »
I'll concede that point. Of course. It is less of a blow to avoid the "white savior" without a stereotypical Asian role by having Danny Rand be black or latino, Israeli, Filipino even. But honestly, might just be a personal opinion, but I think the character is more effective as is, but that's neither here nor there.

Like I said, I get the arguments of cultural representation vs cultural appropriation, but in this particular case, I don't think it's that kind of a deal. Specifically for those clamoring for the character to be played by an Asian. That's not who he is. Like when they say "how are you gonna have a guy connected to Asian culture doing kung fu and not be Asian", well that's kinda the point of the entire character isn't it? He's a bit of a fish out of water... and it's that flsh being out of water that makes it peculiar.

Offline daglob

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #475 on: November 03, 2019, 03:02:33 PM »
I haven't read Iron Fist in years, but weren't the populace of Kun'lun extraterrestrials, or was it just the dragon?

Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #476 on: November 04, 2019, 01:22:05 AM »
The latest is that it seems marvel is planning on moving into a series of R-Rated movies with their own crossover team as a version of the Midnight Sons and Punisher, with the Netflix cast, would be one of those. Blade and possibly Deadpool would be part of that as well (but it doesn't sound like Deadpool is part of the team, only the R-rated movie series)
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Offline GhostMachine

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #477 on: November 06, 2019, 05:30:10 AM »
There were complaints than Danny was white rather than Asian when the Iron Fist series was first announced, including complaints by a few people who should have known better. (A writer who had actually worked for Marvel, for example.) My response was `Sure, lets make Danny Asian. And while we're at it, introduce Shang-Chi, but make him an African-American rapper with Shang-Chi being his rap name. Because that makes about as much sense.' I get the desire for some to avoid the white savior trope, but Danny *not* being Asian is sort of the point. Wanting to make Danny Asian is a case of being overly racially sensitive and PC. Probably also the reason that Snake-Eyes is going to be played by a partially Asian actor. So now they're going with sterotypes. How is that any better?

I usually do not have a problem with changing a character's race, but Danny Rand and Snake-Eyes shouldn't be Asian. The only character whose race shouldn't be changed more than them is James Bond, unless they finally admit its a code-name and there's more than one Bond. (Maybe he's a Time Lord?!)

And to answer daglob, if I remember right the Kun'lun are extradimensional beings.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 05:33:20 AM by GhostMachine »

Offline SickAlice

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Re: Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!
« Reply #478 on: November 07, 2019, 02:00:54 AM »
I just got rid of Netflix in favor of Prime, doesn't sound like I'm missing anything. After the price hike, Jones ending and Netflix being way too focused on their own content it didn't seem like a good option anymore. Plus Prime opens me to Disney as well CBS for the new Picard show. Tbh I wasn't very into the Netflix shows anyways short of Jones.

Far as the casting...I guess I couldn't care. Not enough about Iron Fist anyways. I do see where changing him would dither the essence of the character at least in being a prototypical upperclass white boy learning to appreciate Asian lore but perhaps that concept just isn't with the times anyways. Yet in the end as long as it's entertaining and the actor puts on a good show that's all that matters to me imo. That's about the limit of thought I can put into it really.