Netflix is making Daredevil, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, AND Jessica Jones shows!

Started by BWPS, November 07, 2013, 07:58:11 PM

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HarryTrotter

Quote from: stumpy on August 20, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
LOL. Especially for Marvel!  ;-)
Its harder to find some differences really.
Quote from: stumpy on August 20, 2017, 07:19:25 PM
Umm... Hello? You live in a world where mythical beings, super-powered humans, sorcerers, aliens, and so on do battle at a scale that no one could really have missed. Please don't tell me that no one could possibly believe that there's a nefarious group hoping to use dark magic in New York City.
More like in a adjacent parasitic dimension.Rath to MCU's Dominaria.
But at least they didn't hammer in pointless references to the movies this time,I can respect that.
Quote from: BentonGrey on August 21, 2017, 04:50:30 AM
We just finished episode 3.  We're enjoying it, but it so far hasn't entirely wowed me.  I'm willing to be impressed.

I do have to say this, though.:
Spoiler
Why the HECK did Danny just stroll into the Hand's office and announce that he was coming after them legally rather than, you know, actually doing it?  I cannot think of a single explanation other than "he's intensely stupid."  This does not help the fact that we already sort of don't like him.  In fact, Lady Grey actively hates him and says at least once an episode "Colleen should be the Iron Fist!  She should be the superhero!"  Only my comic purist leanings keep me from agreeing with her.  :P
He gets a bit better later on.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Red Fisser

I think the series itself acknowledges that Danny Rand is pretty stupid and immature,in a number of occasions
Spoiler
like when colleen says he is a kid inside, or all those hand founding members who ve met (and perhaps killed?)all the other incarnations of the ironfist calling him the most dumb iron fist ever existed. I think Luke refers to that matter exactly on the handling of the situation in the Hand's office,while he is watching over him.....
My only consolation on his case(beside Colleen Wing) is trying to think of him as the  Michelangelo of the team through Danny=brat X10. Perhaps it would be better if he and Luke would share a series together,I dont know.

Silver Shocker

So I just finished it. I thought it was pretty good. Not my favorite of these shows but not bad.

I'll agree with that Ra' Al Ghul joke. I did think of League of Assassins/Shadows during the series.

The earliest episodes did feel like a fair amount of buildup, it actually reminded me of the first half hour or so of the first Avengers movie in that regard. Re introduce the various characters one by one and eventually get them to meet.

I think the key element is that seeing the main cast play off each other was fun. Unfortunately I failed to notice the creative color coding others did (Now I really wish I'd caught that!) but that's a nice touch.

Spoiler
I think for me the biggest downside for the series it that it's a lot of the Hand, and I've not found the hand all that interesting in any of these series. Once we got to the finale with a whole lot of Hand Ninjas, Electra, and a hip hop song during the fight (which, yes, did in fact make me think of the Vanilla Ice in the second live action Ninja Turtles movie) I was kinda zoning in and out.

I was disappointed in that when Stick died, I didn't care more. Though part of the reason why I didn't care more was 1. The show didn't dwell on his death much, and 2) Stick didn't really get to contribute a lot to the show other than deliver exposition (something he did a fair amount of in Daredevil S2. I could have done with more of Stick being a lovably snarky jerk and less being Basil Exposition, but oh well. I kinda think if the show had a few more episodes, they could have gotten more mileage out of him and thus made his departure carry more weight. It felt like an attempt to replicate Agent Coulson's death in the first Avengers film

Sigourney Weaver was....pretty good, but I still feel that, like Luke Cage and Iron Fist, this series suffered somewhat from the lack of a scene-stealing villain like Daredevil and Jessica Jones had. I did find amusement in one or two scenes that reminded me of Ghostbusters (namely the submerged car after the earthquake, and people taking about a big hole in the middle of New York). Those could very well be pure coincidences, but I like to think they're GB references.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Having finished it...it was okay.
In theory,Hand should be interesting(being a ninja death cult),but in reality they are a ninja death cult and that's not very interesting.If that makes sense.The most threatening member of the Hand is the guy tied to a chair.Anyway,
Spoiler
we should be going Handless
from now on,and all the better for it.
8 episodes instead of 13 should have helped with the pacing,but it doesn't.Im okay with the spontaneous build up to the actual team up,but then episodes 5-7 end up being a long sting of conversation along the lines of:
-I got to go save the world
-But Im worried...

We didn't really need all the satellite characters from the previous shows.Whenever Misty Knight shows up to deliver stock NYPD dialogue,you can sense the molecules of the show stopped moving.But,
Spoiler
she lost her arm,
so at least that opens some possibilities in the future.
They really need Bullseye in season 3 of Daredevil.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Tomato

I actually heard an interesting theory on how Bullseye could be worked in based on a scene from the final episode and how season 2 left Kingpin.

detourne_me

Silver Shocker, about Sigourney Weaver references, did you catch the one in i think the first or second episode when she went to the hospital? She made a kind of pose against the glass that reminded me of Aliens... or was it me remembering Sarah Connor in T2 with a pose like that?

Shogunn2517

In case anyone got to the end of The Defenders and were left a little curious...

Spoiler
Luke Cage, Season 2 is apparently in production....

detourne_me


stumpy

Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

catwhowalksbyhimself

I was surprised that they got one realistic detail right.  Namely, that little patch with the wire on her should.  That's how real bionic arms actually work.  Somebody did some research.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

HarryTrotter

Is Punisher delayed or something?Im hearing a lot about that,but cant find anything solid.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

crimsonquill

Quote from: HarryTrotter on October 21, 2017, 05:47:12 PM
Is Punisher delayed or something?Im hearing a lot about that,but cant find anything solid.

The final Punisher trailer was just released a few days ago.. official Netflix release date is November 17th, 2017. :D

Plans were for an earlier release during the New York Comic Con but the tragedy in Las Vegas had Marvel/Netflix delay it and replan how they would promote it (since they wouldn't have a comic con cast panel).

- CQ
"He said let there be light... CLICK! It was a lightbulb. And It was good."

HarryTrotter

''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

HarryTrotter

Punisher seems to be going for a slow psychological drama.Also,everyone has a habit of expositing their stances on various topics.
Im guessing "they want to take our guns" guy is forshadowing something.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Quote from: HarryTrotter on November 17, 2017, 05:26:41 PM
Punisher seems to be going for a slow psychological drama.Also,everyone has a habit of expositing their stances on various topics.
Im guessing "they want to take our guns" guy is forshadowing something.

Yeah I'm an episode in and I thought that was a little odd...

Spoiler
Homegirl was like "your father is a devout man but he knows the problems in his religion." And I'm like okay how is that relevant to the Punisher?

I mean Id mind less if it was in context but so far it just seems like the script want to just make it more topical than it needs to be.

stumpy

Quote from: HarryTrotter on November 17, 2017, 05:26:41 PMAlso,everyone has a habit of expositing their stances on various topics.
I haven't started the show yet, but that has me pre-cringing.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

HarryTrotter

First episode has a very speed-dating system of introducing new characters where they just come in an make a speech that spells out who they are.Ah,I get it,this is the tough,not-really-PC police captain. :)
It feels a bit forced.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Okay, I finished The Punisher earlier this moring and I gotta be honest, this is probably top 3 MCU/Nerflix shows.  Personally I liked it more than all save for Luke Cage.  As it holds up as a series, it's up there with Daredevil's first season and Luke Cage, rivaling Jessica Jones.  Thought it was a strong entry that had a good narrative but certain parts of the character and unfortunately personal agendas stop it from being better.

Spoiler

POSITIVES:
The Punisher was THE PUNISHER  I gotta be honest, I was not a fan of how the character was portrayed in Daredevil.  Not only did they make the character all about "vengeance" instead of punishment(more on that later).  More than that though, Berenthal played him almost maniacal.  Which isn't what I know the Punisher to be.  The Punisher's family was killed in a crossfire and he's out to punish ALL criminals and he does that extremely efficiently. And he can't be as efficient if he's running around like a crazy person.  The best example of this was the rooftop scene in Daredevil.  The scene as it was in the comics, very similar but Frank was in control, calm and gave Daredevil a simple choice with his eyes in a scope.  "You kill me or I kill him."  But in Daredevil, Frank was yelling and intense and damn near psychotic.  That's not the Punisher.  In this series, Frank was MUCH more in control, more human.  And more realistic IMO.  Worked a lot better for me here.  Moreover, there's been a lot said about the level of violence but I actually thought it was fully appropriate to the character. Some of it might have been over the top, like what he did to Rawlins but much of it was in-character.  He's the freaking PUNISHER. He should be punishing bad guys and doing it graphically.  THAT'S who he is. I'm glad they had that.

Punisher's relationships This was also one of my favorite parts of the series.  Punisher not only seemed more relatable and familiar with the way he was with certain characters, but the writing with it made the series stronger IMO.  Most notably his scenes with Micro.  They were a lot of fun and the dynamic between the two held up.  Also his scenes with Curtis were also good.  Also, Jason Moore himself did a good job with the character.

It was pretty topical Yes, we can(and I'm sure we will(more on this later)) debate how these issues were used, but honestly I think it's hard to have a show like this and NOT talk about these issues, domestic terrorism, gun violence, that kind of thing.  Even more extended to veteran issues and mental health(and how that relates to gun violence and terrorism).  I think the show handled that aspect well.  I'm not a veteran, though I have worked a lot with them, plus my dad spent his career working with veterans and helping them, not very much unlike what Curtis was doing(though my father helped them a lot more clinically/administratively).  So i understood how veterans can see this series and how it handles returning from war.  But overall, I'm a political guy.  I work in politics.  Many of these characters were born out of social and political themes.  So I'm glad to see them just to keep the debate alive, but at the same time I think they were being preachy without actually taking a side... if that make sense.  Like Lewis was the stand up guy defending the 2nd Amendment and individual freedoms, but he had Frank as a counterweight to the terrorist he actually was.  You had Senator Ori with strong gun control points and facts balanced with Karen's real life ordeal.  So I think it was a good balance.

NEGATIVES:
It was TOO topical I know I just said I liked the fact they delved into political issues, but in many parts it seemed really forced.  Like with Dinah's parents.  As a matter of fact Dinah's entire background was pretty immaterial.  She could have been black, latino, Asian and the character would have still worked.  But with her parents, they seemed only to serve as a device to talk about Islam... which again absolutely immaterial to the entire show.  And then O'Conner, who I suppose I get, but he was pretty over the top... and not too consistent either.  I dunno, I just think he could have been better handled than he was.  So, while I liked the fact it was topical, in some cases they kind of dialed up the politics way too much to a level of seeming kinda slapsticky. In some aspects I even wish they went the Daredevil/Avengers route and made social/political issues but made them comic centric.  IRL we don't talk about anti-vigilante laws. But they made it a thing in the series and it made sense. It was safe in that way.

He is not The Revenger Again, they did this last season and it drives me up a wall.  I mean, I did like the storyline and it played out well, but they was dead set on taking away what makes the Punisher THE PUNISHER.  His family was killed in a gangland crossfire.  He couldn't get his revenge so he was going to punish ALL criminals.  But for half of Daredevil and this season his entire focus was getting revenge for his fsmily.  From beginning to end.  In the first few minutes when he was tracking down the gangs and killing them, he finished and thought he was done and retired.  Even at the end when he killed Rawlins and got Russo, he again, stopped.  The series actually ended with him saying for the first time in a while he doesn't have a war to fight.  Which is true because they made the Punisher all about revenge.  And that's not what he is.  He's a reaction to what Americans were seeing in the 70s.  A homicide rate that was just getting higher and higher. Gun violence that was just way out of control.  America was going to Hell in a handbasket... and he was the handbasket.  This isn't a political point, but more of a philosophical point. That's the world he lives in.  He can't stop punishing because the world is a dark place and it won't get better, so he just keeps going.  That's what makes the character.  But they changed that dynamic.

More MCU connection This might be a minor gripe, but I would have really liked to have seen or heard more of a bigger connection to the MCU.  I know this had Karen Page and Brett, as well as Turk getting his butt kicked again(love the fact it's kind of a running theme in all the shows).  But beyond that there was no connection or mention to the films or even other Netflix characters. In the other these aspects rather played a role("the incident") or at least mentioned.  Here it was pretty much secular to what was going on in the show.  No mention of vigilantes or other heroes or anything.




HarryTrotter

You would assume there are enough topics to work with in the material without adding a few more...
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

So I did finish this a week or so ago, and I quite enjoyed it. It's the Netflix MCU show I've enjoyed the most since Daredevil and JJ (not even the Defenders hit those highs for me). I Thought Berenthal was great but I thought he was great in DD so that wasn't a huge surprise. I thought story wise it was a pretty well handled starring feature story for this version of the character. Yes it was very topical but considering Punisher was introduced as a more shellshocked vet version of the character I felt it was appropriate and made sense, even if some of it was a little clunky. A lot of it was buildup, so you didn't always see Punisher action but when you did, the violence was glorious.

Spoiler
The show's homage to Jigsaw at the end was awesomely brutal, one of the most wince-inducing things I've seen in a show/movie/ect, in a long time, and considering Frank pulled a Mountain-from-Game-Of-Thrones on Rawlins an episode or 2 earlier and I get grossed out easily by eye violence, that's saying something.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Red Fisser

I finished the punisher a few days ago too, but my feelings are mixed up(which was not the case on daredevil s1,or jessica jones as I BINGEWATCH those furiously without second thought)I definitely disagree on the imdb review that sets it above all the rest mcu/netflix shows.
I am not against the way his origin was handled. I think it serves for a more grounded(and political) approach of the character, without changing his bases dramatically, overall fits the mcu/netflix background,though I d like more of it.
I am definitely on with the self-blame part due to the origin changes.
I am a bit mixed about the overall pacing, and the punisher switch that goes on and off trough the series.
I like the newly introduced characters, I enjoyed micro and his background+chemistry with Frank and I want to see more of Dinah and where that goes(hopefully on daredevil or sooner on jessica jones) while I liked the use of the old(I think Karen was spot on) too.
Enjoyed the villains and where that goes even if some origins where changed, I think it was well handed.
MAJOR LETDOWN for me was the aesthetic aspect of the series, overall and most basically on the music part.
I am not an enemy of blues or anything, and I enjoyed seeing Castle knowing how to handle a guitar(or a book :P )
BUT when it comes to the punisher I expect some epic dramatic opera, a menacing hymn to vengeance and nothing less.
I think that was done better on the past portrayals of the character in the movies
and that was done perfect on (the full of respect to the source material) video game, which has a terrific soundtrack that just caches the essence of the Punisher !!!(if you havent heared it you should check it out on you tube)

Shogunn2517

Yeah I saw a lot of reviews giving Amber Rose Revah a bad rep.  I though Dinah was a good character. An interesting add and a good storyline.  At least IMO.

detourne_me

Honestly, I'm struggling to finish The Punisher.  It's better than Iron Fist, but that's about it.
Spoiler
He's not the Punisher.
He is not proactively going after criminals at all. The only people he actually kills are vets that work for a security company that think they are serving the greater good going after a terrorist.

There were about 3 good episodes, but the majority have MAJOR pacing issues.

I dunno... I figured he had a good enough introduction in Daredevil Season 2, we could've just gone straight into Punisher action, instead of waiting 11 episodes before he dons the skull.

HarryTrotter

Eh,maybe in season 3...
I still havent finished it,but so far,its a mixed bag.More 24 then Punisher,tbh.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

HarryTrotter

In the end,like a lot of comic adaptations in recent times,its just so generic I cant have any feelings about it.Im not sure why its even called Punisher,you could scrape off the name and call it anything you like,its just that bland.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Tomato

So I had a slow day at work today, so I started watching Luke Cage season 2. Now, I'm gonna be honest... despite loving the first season (despite its flaws, of which there were MANY) I wasn't really looking forward to it. The last four netflix Marvel series were... not great. Jessica Jones was mediocre at best. Between my indifference to the character and the mediocre reviews, didn't bother with Punisher. Defenders was disappointing. Iron Fist... HO BOY Iron Fist. But again, nothing better to do, so I started watching.

In short: It's better than season 1. Anyone who's felt, like me, that the Netflix series haven't been living up to the standard of what came before, Luke Cage season 2 delivers in a way that I haven't seen since Jessica Jones season 1.

Spoiler
Plus it has a guest appearance by Iron Fist... where he's actually a likeable character! I know, what a concept right? Hopefully that bodes well for a season 2/further team ups down the line.

Silver Shocker

I'm only two episodes into Cage season 2, but I will say I also wasn't that impressed with Jessica Jones season 2. I found it a big step down from season 1.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Tomato

On JJ Season 2:

Spoiler
To be fair to the series, I don't think it was BAD in the same way I can point to Iron Fist S1 or Half of Daredevil Season 2 as bad. It's biggest problem is that... it doesn't ever reach for the heights season 1 did. Much of that has to do with the much weaker villain, who isn't as interesting or even sympathetic as Tennant's Kilgrave... and when I can honestly say Jessica's mom is less sympathetic than KILGRAVE, there is a problem in the narrative structure.

And that also leads to another problem with season 2... I'm gonna be vague given the board's rules, but given the nature of the series villain it makes sense that season 1 had an almost over-reliance on adult imagery... yes it was absolutely played for cheap excitation and as such the scenes go on way too long (I skip through them all) but it made a certain sense given the subject matter. Season 2, though, is all about family, and yet it keeps up the same focus and emphasis on adult imagery. The resulting juxtaposition, unintended though it may be, is... rather off putting in the context of the narrative.

That said... I do like where the series ended up, just not what it took to get there.

On Luke Cage S2:

Spoiler
Having finished the entire thing, I can honestly put it up there with the best of previous Neflix series. Where I feel season 1 had a big problem with the villains (we subbed out Cottonmouth halfway into the series for Diamondback despite the latter being a much weaker villain with the same obsession with Luke we'd already cultivated in Cottonmouth) season 2 does a much better job balancing the opposing forces of Mariah and Bushmaster. The narrative weaved the character arcs together much more seamlessly than I've seen the Netflix series do since the first Daredevil series, and I was genuinely surprised by the direction Luke took by the end of the series.

Shogunn2517

Surprised?  Yeah that's a way of putting it.

So, I just finished LC2, but before that I'll add a word about JJ2.

Spoiler
I don't know why but I'm kinda the opposite of Tomato here and I pretty much enjoyed each of the seasons Netflix have produced for Marvel.  Call me a sucker, I dunno.
I get wrapped in the story lines and characters and just enjoy getting into it I suppose.  But I can see what you mean in regards to some of the problems.  Particularly for JJ2.  I think the biggest difference(or flaw, whatever) is the tone is so much different than JJ1.  It was more personal... less mystery if you will.  I don't think folk were that interested on that side of Jessica, but more of her superdetective drunk side.  That's her speed.  Perhaps we didn't get enough of that.

And as for LC2...
Spoiler
Yeah, didn't see the end playing out like that.  Had to watch the entire last episode again just to make sure I got it all right.  I mean it's good to see Luke taking on a bit of a leadership role, at least that's the way I'll take it.  And I'm taking it by calling himself "sheriff he tries to differentiate himself, but wearing the suits, giving the orders, dismissing Claire... that's some gangsta ish, and I don't mean that as just a figure of speech.

Overall, I did enjoy the season.  I have the say the tone that I thoroughly enjoyed from season 1, now it's just taken for granted.  It's not as "fresh" IMO.The cameos and in- and out-of-universe reference were all pretty nice.  Got a good laugh out of "make Harlem great again" line.  Really enjoyed ESPN's resident blerds, Michael Smith and Jamale Hill showing up with NY Jets coach Todd Bowles during the workout. Additionally, speaking of JJ2, LC2 made waaaaay more references to the Defenders and other shows than JJ2 did altogether.  I'm not even sure if it was at all referenced in JJ2.  Here, Luke talked about it, Foggy talked about it, Claire talked about it, Misty and Colleen HAD to talk about it (arms away!).  And of course the Luke Cage and Iron Fist team up was by FAR my favorite part of the season.  I think those kind of blends actually help these series.  It widens the scope.  It's what we all want to see, other characters showing up in other characters stories, like it goes in the comics.  I'm glad to have seen it.

And a word on some of the characters, good lord you gotta imagine Alfre Woodard enjoyed the heck out of playing Mariah.  She was almost as over the top and raw as Ali was with Cottonmouth.  I was glad to see Thomas Jones get more time with Comanche this season and to see his bond with Rossi/Shades gave his character much more depth.
He was actually likeable and motivated by other things than just being a common criminal. I'm almost sure they set it up for Tilda Johnson and Izquerda to have larger parts in season 3 as antagonist. At least I hope Sciora comes back.  Lastly, I really enjoyed Bushmaster.  Shakir did a wonderful job and reading a bit about him, I'm glad he got the opportunity to do so. He had motivation that was not just singular focused like Diamondback.  His powers didn't seem gimmicky which made his fights with Luke more dynamic and believeable. Of course I didn't enjoy him as much as Cottonmouth(who is still probably the biggest sore spot this series will have unfortunately) but he was a good foil. Overall good though.  But man am I glad I had the subtitles on, Jamaicans make it seem like the Irish speak the Queens English! Oy!

(But I'll bet $100 I'll walk into the office on Monday randomly asking "Wagawn?" Lol)

Like I said, overall I liked it.  Seemed better put together and less split-focused that. The first season.  But again, what I really, really liked about the show, I pretty much saw it in season 1, which makes this less of a... surprise, I guess you can say.  But good though.

Silver Shocker

For me it really was mostly just that the main plot/antagonist in JJ2 didn't hold my interest much, not like Killgrave. Mind you you'd need someone really captivating to match or top David Tennant, but still...
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa