Topic: The Flash (possible Spoilers)

[Talavar]

About his mother and the ending of season 1.

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They earlier explained that past events like that which would be negated by future actions still exist by a pocket timeline.  It doesn't make sense if you think too hard about it, but nothing about time travel ever usually does.

I guess.  But I'm a Doctor Who fan, which has ranged from the awesome to the abysmal in its uses of time travel, and the Flash has been worse than it at its worst when it comes to making any kind of sense. 

[Ouflah]

Yeah, I thought the episode was good, but really... rushed. And that's not an intentional speed pun. They did in one episode what should have taken at least 3-5 episodes.

And in reference to the time travel, I was able to make sense of it in season 1, but season 2 was quite inconsistent with itself and often went against the rules established in season 1.

[BWPS]

Man none of that bothers me at all on account of time travel isn't real and I definitely can't say "that's not how that works." The show handles time travel in a way that makes it a good show.

[Talavar]

Man none of that bothers me at all on account of time travel isn't real and I definitely can't say "that's not how that works." The show handles time travel in a way that makes it a good show.

It bothers me because it's neither consistent nor convincing, and has mainly been used as a character development reset button/randomizer.  But I think I'm coming to the realization that the Flash isn't for me.  Like Smallville before it, the promise of the first season is being frittered away on a long slide downhill.

[Spade]

These past few episodes have been kinda...slow.

[thalaw2]

It's terrible that the science behind the speed force that was established in season 1 has been thrown out the window this season. 

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How is Jessie to operate at a high level without experiencing any of the problems Barry had in Season 1?

It seems that the show has been "Nerfed."  The plots are simple and uncomplicated in the last 2 episodes.  I'm sure most of us can guess what's going to happen in the next episode or two.  I really hope things get better soon.

[thalaw2]

Is it me or is the show getting progressively worse still?  It's so sad.  I'm still living off residual excitement from the last 2 seasons and that keeps me tuning in to this show. 

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I do not like the H.R. Wells non scientist!  I suppose he has an idea for a time machine.

[Spade]

Yeah,its kinda falling into same problems like Arrow.
Maybe they should have found Wells whos a lawyer working out of a bowling alley.

[Ouflah]

Honestly my biggest concern is that they've toned down one of their biggest appeals, and that is Cisco's personality. He just isn't as zany as he used to be.

[Spade]

They turned Shade into smoke-monster-of-the-week.And then Megatron shows up?

[crimsonquill]

They turned Shade into smoke-monster-of-the-week.And then Megatron shows up?

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Shade got captured and arrested so I'm sure he will be showing up again and probably more comic accurate (unless he is killed first). Now Savitar thinks he is THE God Of Speed plus there is nods to Godspeed (a current Flash villain wearing a suit of speed force) in his appearance but they wanted to give folks a shock who were tired of Reverse Flash, Zoom/Black Flash, and Rival just just looking like normal looking guys.

[Ouflah]

Shade was a bit anticlimactic, but otherwise I thought the episode was good.

[thalaw2]

This ep was better than other eps. this season, but I don't think that's saying much.  H.R. needs to ether go or get a serious upgrade IMO.

[Cyber Burn]

This ep was better than other eps. this season, but I don't think that's saying much.  H.R. needs to ether go or get a serious upgrade IMO.

H.R. is starting to push me away from the show, he has got to go, period.

[Ouflah]

Really? I kinda like HR, he's filling the void that Cisco left when Cisco got all mopey.

[Tomato]

I agree to a point, but he's not really good at it. He's easily the least interesting cast member right now, and considering how he was THE cornerstone of season 1 that's kind of sad.

That having been said... While I think Flash is easily the worst executed of the 3 main Arrowverse shows right now (Supergirl is kind of doing its own thing) I will say that, overall, I like how the narratives have been structured this season. For a few years the shows have been hampered by having all the long-term narrative focused on a single villain, with most of the other Antagonists relegated to villain-of-the-week status. Arrow in particular has been a victim of this structure, with SO MUCH focus given to Damian last season right from the start that I was just bored of him by the end of the season. This year, the three shows have been taking a more intricate approach... Arrow started off with Church, dropped hints of the season's main threat (Prometheus) before giving him an episode, but now has backed off again to focus on another antagonist. Similarly, Legends may focus on Reverse Flash as it's main baddie, but they brought back Damian, and it sounds like they're setting up a full on Legion of Doom. And Flash has also been spending a bit more time developing secondary antagonists beyond what we're used to seeing.

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BTW, calling it now... Doctor Alchemy is either Julian, or we're meant to think he is. The line about him being absent during the raid was a bit obvious.

[Ouflah]

I strongly disliked season 3 of Arrow and the first season of Legends, so I haven't been watching them. Would you say they've improved since then?

[Spade]

@Tomato That would be way too obvious.

[GhostMachine]

I strongly disliked season 3 of Arrow and the first season of Legends, so I haven't been watching them. Would you say they've improved since then?

Both shows have gotten better. Legends especially since they're no longer chasing Vandal Savage around and have some new members of the team.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I strongly disliked season 3 of Arrow and the first season of Legends, so I haven't been watching them. Would you say they've improved since then?

Legends is practically a different show.  Actually, the last couple episodes of the first season are quite good, especially since they are the only ones that matter

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As it's revealed that the entire rest of the season they have pretty much just been unknowing puppets of the Time Masters making the entire season up to that point utterly pointless.

The show no longer had that premise though and is mostly a time travel adventure show.  The episodes are mostly stand alone, so no reason not to just jump back in, although the next episodes will be the four series crossover anyway.

[Tomato]

First... it's a couple weeks after the fact but... *cough*called it*cough*

Second

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Can we just talk about the fact that they cast Tom Felton to be a villain that wields the Philosopher's Stone?

[thalaw2]

I admit the show is looking much better now.  However, I still want scientist H.R. Wells back.  Is Tim C. being punished for something by the studio?

[Tomato]

https://medium.com/@demiurgent/my-name-is-eric-burns-white-and-i-have-almost-always-hated-barry-allen-f7a8e79abf86#.weudg5lb0

I've actually read this article a few times (it was written during season 1), but I come back to it every so often. Ironically, it's more poignant in the years since (ala BvS, Suicide Squad, and even Civil War) than it was when I first read it.

[Spade]

^I could agree about Barry being a bit bland(in the comic),but Im not sure if hes a republican.

[Tomato]

TBF, even the article kinda disputes that moniker, but I think the intent behind it was not so much a political one... as the article says "for Barry Allen to have politics he’d actually have to have enough of a character to possess a political opinion." It's more his general attitude... he's a clean cut, square jawed CSI who is so perfect he squeeks. People give Superman a hard time for that, but he's got nothing on Barry Allen. He's a good man with no interesting characteristics in the midst of entire Leagues and Societies worth good men who have actual pathos.

But then, what makes Barry boring in the original comics is also why I still love the TV series, warts and all. In a world where Superman has to kill people to stay relevant, Barry Allen laments even the death of his childhood Bully. I have friends who won't even bother with SHIELD anymore, but who still love Flash.

[Spade]

It was the 60's,everyone was bland.On the other hand,competition had sexism and xenofobia.Nobody was perfect.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I'm surprised no one else brought it up yet, so I will.

The Gorilla City two-party just finished and I thought they were fantastic.  Probably the best two episodes this season.  I like how Grodd really does come across are truly intelligent.

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Since he basically outmaneuvers everyone all at once in the first part in a plot that actually makes total sense once you realize what he pulled off.  Even in the second one, he doesn't do the obvious invade the city with apes, but tries a more sophisticated tactic first.  Really solidified Grodd as a truly intelligent and dangerous foe, ape or not.

[catwhowalksbyhimself]

I saw the Music Meister crossover.  In reality, the character is Music Meister in name only.  His powerset, motivation, background, and everything else about him is completely different.  Also the episode wasn't really that good.  It wasn't bad, but it was entirely focused on the romantic drama that I have no interest in anyways and appears to have been shoved into both shows just so it could be resolved in this crossover.

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This version of Music Meister seems to be something like a benevolent Mr. Mxyzptlk.  He's an extra-dimensional being who "teaches" people in distress lessons by trapping them in a fiction reality based on whatever their current interests are.   In this case, musicals.  He also seems to be able to siphon superpowers, although that's never actually explained, nor is the way he seems to act like a bad guy only to be revealed to be good.  In fact, the name makes no sense either, since his powers have nothing to do with music; Kara and Barry both happen to like musics, so they get trapped in one.  It's all quite confusing really.

One thing I did like though, was finally seeing Cisco in costume and one the field.  I dont' recall that happening before.

[Silver Shocker]

I enjoyed the crossover, but yes, the Music Meister was an odd version of the character.

[Ouflah]

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nor is the way he seems to act like a bad guy only to be revealed to be good.

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He was "robbing" the bank with heat vision to get Wally's attention, to help Wally out as well. Wally got "back on the horse" per se, said he wasn't afraid, and was laughing by the end of the fight when he knocked out Music Meister.

I really liked the episode. Though, I'm a bit biased I suppose as I enjoy musicals in general. But even the musical part aside,

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The fight with Cisco, Martian Manhunter, and Kid Flash was really, really, really cool to watch.