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Author Topic: Star Wars Rebels  (Read 9566 times)

Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #90 on: November 30, 2016, 04:43:05 AM »
I gotta imagine that sometime over the next two weeks there would be some crossover material from Rogue One...  Perhaps character types or planets or something that's seen in Rebels or seen in Rogue One that will be in Rebels.

Or at least I'd assume.  Could be wrong.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #91 on: November 30, 2016, 11:51:44 AM »
Maybe a nod,like the crossguard lightsaber last time.
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Offline detourne_me

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #92 on: December 02, 2016, 04:09:26 AM »
I heard Forres Whittaker's chracter was gonna be on Rebels, but he looks totally different.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #93 on: December 02, 2016, 05:55:56 AM »
^I think he was already in Clone Wars,.
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Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #94 on: December 03, 2016, 03:40:35 AM »
He was.


Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2016, 12:03:08 PM »
It starts like another infiltration episode,but it does end up playing into the larger story.And Thrawn is there,so thats always a plus.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #96 on: December 17, 2016, 02:01:47 AM »
I've been watching this a bit more lately.  I'm several episodes behind because I can only take so much at a time, but it seems to be more or less of a piece with what came before, though a bit better.  The show still just feels mediocre with occasional moments of excellence.

I'm glad that there don't seem to be Jedi under every rock so far this season.  That's something.  On a random note, does it bother anyone else that the Rebels have A-Wings coming out of the wazoo?  I know the old canon has been jettisoned, but it will always be true for me.  I can't get past the fact that, in the old canon, A-Wings didn't show up until much later in the struggle.  It also really bothers me that these are advanced interceptors, but they regularly get waxed by regular old TIEs.  These are minor issues, but they really do vex me inordinately.  It's little things like that which, general quality of the show aside, just make it feel 'wrong' to me.
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Offline Talavar

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #98 on: December 17, 2016, 05:53:18 PM »
Yeah, the A-wings and B-wing in Rebels kinda bugs me too--though the actual B-wing episode is nowhere as bad as that linked post makes it out to be.  But we're living in a world where the Crystal Star, Courtship of Princess Leia, Jedi Academy Trilogy, Dark Empire comic, Darksaber and so many more are no longer canon, and that is more than worth the price. 

In other news, didn't anyone catch the Rebels references in Rogue One? 
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #99 on: December 17, 2016, 06:05:07 PM »
Well,one guy making the whole thing in a junkyard is a bit cartoonish.Just saying.
Where Legacy,Dark Times,Other Sons of Tatooine,KOTOR are no longer canon.Because movies based on existing books or comics never work,right?
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #100 on: December 18, 2016, 03:12:49 AM »
Spade, I actually have seen that episode, and it REALLY bothered me.  I just don't see the point in A) replacing functional and interesting canon stories like that one, and B) doing so with inferior versions.  While perhaps not quite as silly as that write-up makes it sound, it's still not a great story.

Ha, Tal, Courtship is pretty awful, I'll grant you that, and Academy has some huge (Kyp) weaknesses (Durron), but the price is too high for me, as the worst points of the continuity were already easy enough to ignore.  I hardly ever thought about those books after I read them the first time, and, despite their weak points, they did often give us valuable and interesting additions to mythos, like Dathomir itself and the Witches, things that outlived their less than stellar origins to become respected parts of the canon.  The same basic idea of the Witches, wild, untrained Force users who don't truly understand how they harness the power, has appeared several times in Star Wars materials to good effect.

For me, the price is far too high. 
God Bless
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Offline Talavar

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #101 on: December 18, 2016, 05:25:55 AM »
Spade, I actually have seen that episode, and it REALLY bothered me.  I just don't see the point in A) replacing functional and interesting canon stories like that one, and B) doing so with inferior versions.  While perhaps not quite as silly as that write-up makes it sound, it's still not a great story.

Ha, Tal, Courtship is pretty awful, I'll grant you that, and Academy has some huge (Kyp) weaknesses (Durron), but the price is too high for me, as the worst points of the continuity were already easy enough to ignore.  I hardly ever thought about those books after I read them the first time, and, despite their weak points, they did often give us valuable and interesting additions to mythos, like Dathomir itself and the Witches, things that outlived their less than stellar origins to become respected parts of the canon.  The same basic idea of the Witches, wild, untrained Force users who don't truly understand how they harness the power, has appeared several times in Star Wars materials to good effect.

For me, the price is far too high.

They could make a canon cartoon that was just The Wacky Adventures of Jar Jar Binks and have it run for 6 seasons and a movie, and, to me, it would still be worth it to have Dark Empire gone.  That turd was so damaging to Luke's character, and was just wildly out of keeping with the entire Star Wars universe.  Consigning the collected works of Kevin Anderson to the dustbin of history is just a bonus after that, along with a few other choice entries like Courtship.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #102 on: December 18, 2016, 06:15:32 AM »
^Yup,there it is.Pick one thing you didnt like and somehow that justifies it.That one bad thing must mean everything else was also bad.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #103 on: December 18, 2016, 09:51:08 AM »
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with Spade here. I have fond memories of the EU and didn't have any particularly desire to see it jettisoned. Yes, there's bound to be bad stories/product but that's going to happen when you have so much of it. Tal expressed his opinion back when Force Awakens came out and I didn't agree with it then either (no offense intended, I just don't agree). As it happens I actually only read a small handful of Star Wars novels, which included the ones you guys didn't like such as Courtship and Jedi Search, as well as other ones people didn't like such as the Bounty Hunter Wars, and those were good enough for me to get me interested in the EU. Mind you, I only read the first installment of Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy and I found it obscenely overrated, so maybe I'm just contrarian like that.

I actually missed the Rebels references in Rogue One, so good to know. I'll definitely have to try to catch them on a repeat viewing.

To bring it back to Rebels, a promotional image surfaced that indicates that a certain character will appear in Rebels:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

On the topic of the latest episode, pretty good, but it's become depressingly evident that all the "good stuff" like Maul's vision and, potentially the business from the S2 finale involving Ahsoka will be saved for the S3 finale. I liked the episode even though I thought Ezra and Kanan seemed a little too at ease around Maul.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Offline Talavar

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #104 on: December 18, 2016, 02:54:23 PM »
^Yup,there it is.Pick one thing you didnt like and somehow that justifies it.That one bad thing must mean everything else was also bad.

I guess you missed the list, but it wasn't one thing I didn't like.  In fact, it's pretty much the reverse of what you said: the handful of good things drowned by everything else that was bad. Because the old expanded universe did have some good stuff--the original Thrawn trilogy, mostly, the X-wing books, um, probably a third thing--but the bad stuff kept piling up until the sheer weight of it overwhelmed the little bit of good.  Multiple terrible trilogies and sub-series of books, bad fantasy novels with a thin Star Wars veneer laid over top, stuff that didn't understand what was important about the characters at all, and a bunch that was already invalidated by the Prequels.  The people behind the old Expanded Universe very quickly realized quality didn't matter; garbage would still sell.

To keep this tangentially on topic, as much as the current Star Wars overlords say everything is canon, Rebels and Clone Wars and the books & comics coming out now are still an expanded universe.  Forest Whitaker played someone who was from Clone Wars in Rogue One, but nothing about his role in the movie depended on anything from the cartoon.  Stuff from Rebels had blink and you missed it cameos in Rogue One.  Now, I don't love Rebels--I think it's okay, with some stronger episodes here and there, and that's pretty much my feelings about Clone Wars as well.  But an effort is being made to keep things consistent and unified now that was missing from the old EU from almost its earliest days. 

Offline Ouflah

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #105 on: December 18, 2016, 04:15:51 PM »
I know I'm in the minority, but I never thought of the Star Wars extended canon as real canon. I mean, anything that is not in the original medium (in this case the original medium being the live action movies) is expendable to movie makers. 
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #106 on: December 18, 2016, 04:44:44 PM »
@Talavar Thats another straw argument.It wasnt canon already.But it was.Everything,and I do mean everything had to be okayed by George Lucas.
Im not that versed in the books,my domain was mostly DH comics,and I cant really remember anything sooo horrible.
@Outflah See thats the thing.It was as deep as you wanted to dive in.You just wanted the movies,thats cool.You wanted more,it was there.

And if it was all so terrible it had to be wiped from existance,why the hell are Disney and Marvel retreading that same ground?
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Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #107 on: December 18, 2016, 05:09:50 PM »
It wasn't that it was terrible.  It was that they didn't want to worry about contradicting something somewhere in all the years of stories when the sequels came out.  It would have been pretty much impossible not to do so.

Maybe they shouldn't have made such a big deal about it, but there was no way to do any sequels if they didn't.  Not unless they directly adapted the pre-existing material.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #108 on: December 18, 2016, 05:15:45 PM »
^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.
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Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #109 on: December 18, 2016, 05:33:16 PM »
I agree that canceling the old extended universe was unnecessary.  They could have just declared it a separate universe and let authors continue to write in it.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #110 on: December 18, 2016, 05:36:52 PM »
I agree that canceling the old extended universe was unnecessary.  They could have just declared it a separate universe and let authors continue to write in it.

My point exactly.Or at least let the ongoing series like Legacy 2 finish properly.
Fun Fact: The Old Republic is the only story still going in the original continuity,because EA has a contract they couldn't cancel.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 05:41:05 PM by Spade »
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Offline Talavar

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #111 on: December 18, 2016, 06:19:59 PM »
@Talavar Thats another straw argument.It wasnt canon already.But it was.Everything,and I do mean everything had to be okayed by George Lucas.
Im not that versed in the books,my domain was mostly DH comics,and I cant really remember anything sooo horrible.

What was a straw argument?  That I didn't outline how the EU was filled with terrible books?  I felt it was a given, but if someone wants to defend any of the terrible books I've listed, I'm game.  For those just curious, here are some rather on the nose recaps of a few of them in all their stupid glory: http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-dumbest-thing-the-star-wars-expanded-universe-did-t-1740235732, http://io9.gizmodo.com/this-star-wars-expanded-universe-story-proves-that-luke-1744243073, http://io9.gizmodo.com/crystal-star-really-is-the-worst-star-wars-book-ever-1788426849.

As to 'soo horrible,' here's what happened in Dark Empire: the Emperor resurrects himself in a clone body a few years after RotJ, re-unifies the Empire and goes on the offensive with new superweapons that were apparently just sitting on ice, Luke joins the Dark Side and becomes the Emperor's apprentice for a bit, a bunch of random other Jedi, good and bad, are revealed to have survived too, the Emperor reveals further force powers dwarfing anything seen before in the films (beyond just cheating death a couple more times), more Imperial superweapons turn up, the Emperor tries to reenact the plot of Ghostbusters 2 and take over Leia's kid's body for himself, and then it finally all implodes after making bad fan fiction look good in comparison.

Not only is Dark Empire terrible in and of itself, but it actively undoes or contradicts key developments of the original films, a hallmark of terrible EU writing.  Luke resists the Dark Side in RotJ and Empire even when it might have saved his life/his friends' lives/the Rebellion; here he joins up because the Emperor reveals a new party trick.  The Imperial resources and super weapons that keep popping up verge on the side of comedy.  It is awful.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #112 on: December 18, 2016, 06:36:40 PM »
The straw argument of: It was never canon anyway.We heard that before.And the straw argument of: X sucked,so the whole thing had to go.
Yeah,there was something stupid in some obscure RPGs manual that you didnt like.Makes perfect sense to throw out the baby with the bath water.
At least Dark Empire was original,unlike a certain movie I could name.And if the new owners disliked it,they could have just ignored it.
Next up will be the straw argument of:They didnt take your comics.That one always comes up.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 06:39:35 PM by Spade »
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Offline Ouflah

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #113 on: December 18, 2016, 06:45:41 PM »
^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.
Well, it's not like you can't interpret the new movies as an alternate universe anyway. You don't really need a studio executive to say "this is a different universe with an alternate future" to be able to imagine that it is. In the end it's all fiction anyway. I'd worry less about what a bunch of bigwigs consider officially canon and just enjoy what you think is good.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #114 on: December 18, 2016, 06:58:23 PM »
Yeah,the problem with that is that those stories stopped.They took away the resolution to those stories.I cant go back and enjoy things that never happened.Like the games that got canceled,for example.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2016, 07:02:55 PM by Spade »
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Offline Ouflah

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #115 on: December 18, 2016, 08:00:47 PM »
True. Most of my favorite movies never got sequels, so I know dem feels.
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Offline Talavar

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #116 on: December 18, 2016, 11:57:12 PM »
The straw argument of: It was never canon anyway.We heard that before.And the straw argument of: X sucked,so the whole thing had to go.
Yeah,there was something stupid in some obscure RPGs manual that you didnt like.Makes perfect sense to throw out the baby with the bath water.
At least Dark Empire was original,unlike a certain movie I could name.And if the new owners disliked it,they could have just ignored it.
Next up will be the straw argument of:They didnt take your comics.That one always comes up.

Where did I say it say it was never canon?  I think you're confusing me with Ouflah, who said:

I know I'm in the minority, but I never thought of the Star Wars extended canon as real canon. I mean, anything that is not in the original medium (in this case the original medium being the live action movies) is expendable to movie makers. 

This stuff was canon, it was just 75% terrible.  I mean, Ouflah is right: the movies will always have primacy over the ancillary materials.  Just like the Marvel movies will continue to largely ignore Agents of Shield and the Netflix shows.  Eventually this new canon Disney is making will contradict itself, and when it does, it's the movies that will matter.  But still, not my argument.

And the books I was referencing were hardly obscure RPG manuals.  These were coming out right after the Thrawn trilogy, foundational books to much of the EU, and most were best-sellers despite sucking hard.  I don't really know what you think the EU was without books like these?  RPG manuals, maybe.

Finally: Dark Empire was original?  With its resurrected Palpatine, multiple Death Star stand-ins, and rehashing the climax of RotJ (not to mention Ghostbusters 2)?  You're either joking or using that word wrong.  Sure, Disney could have pretended it didn't exist, but if they just picked and chose from the old canon, how would that be different in practice from what they are doing?  Thrawn is on Rebels, after all.  Some elements of the old EU are making the jump into the new canon.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #117 on: December 19, 2016, 05:15:05 AM »
Look,everything that runs for 40 or so years will have its share of cr@p,thats true.
I can ignore the bad things that did happen,but I cant enjoy the good things that didnt.I cant watch Star Wars Detours,when Disney refuses to release it,for once.
Another thing,it was never meant to replace the movies,but to supplement them.Its a bit more interesting if you can say: Oh,I know that guy.
And the DisCanon has its share of weird and stupid too.Lightsaber crystals being sentient?
« Last Edit: December 19, 2016, 05:37:39 AM by Spade »
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Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #118 on: December 19, 2016, 07:09:33 AM »
^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.

You're a funny guy...

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Star Wars Rebels
« Reply #119 on: December 19, 2016, 07:16:55 AM »
^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.

You're a funny guy...

A bit too much,I know.Im just trying to say a blank slate reboot was not the only option they had.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
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