Star Wars Rebels

Started by Shogunn2517, August 05, 2014, 10:33:03 AM

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detourne_me

I heard Forres Whittaker's chracter was gonna be on Rebels, but he looks totally different.

HarryTrotter

^I think he was already in Clone Wars,.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517


HarryTrotter

It starts like another infiltration episode,but it does end up playing into the larger story.And Thrawn is there,so thats always a plus.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

I've been watching this a bit more lately.  I'm several episodes behind because I can only take so much at a time, but it seems to be more or less of a piece with what came before, though a bit better.  The show still just feels mediocre with occasional moments of excellence.

I'm glad that there don't seem to be Jedi under every rock so far this season.  That's something.  On a random note, does it bother anyone else that the Rebels have A-Wings coming out of the wazoo?  I know the old canon has been jettisoned, but it will always be true for me.  I can't get past the fact that, in the old canon, A-Wings didn't show up until much later in the struggle.  It also really bothers me that these are advanced interceptors, but they regularly get waxed by regular old TIEs.  These are minor issues, but they really do vex me inordinately.  It's little things like that which, general quality of the show aside, just make it feel 'wrong' to me.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/


Talavar

Yeah, the A-wings and B-wing in Rebels kinda bugs me too--though the actual B-wing episode is nowhere as bad as that linked post makes it out to be.  But we're living in a world where the Crystal Star, Courtship of Princess Leia, Jedi Academy Trilogy, Dark Empire comic, Darksaber and so many more are no longer canon, and that is more than worth the price. 

In other news, didn't anyone catch the Rebels references in Rogue One? 
Spoiler
The Ghost is visibly parked on Yavin 4, and supposedly takes part in the climactic space battle (which I didn't catch), a call over the PA goes out to someone with Hera's last name (either for her or her father), and a droid that looks like Chopper rolls by (which I also didn't spot personally).

HarryTrotter

Well,one guy making the whole thing in a junkyard is a bit cartoonish.Just saying.
Where Legacy,Dark Times,Other Sons of Tatooine,KOTOR are no longer canon.Because movies based on existing books or comics never work,right?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

Spade, I actually have seen that episode, and it REALLY bothered me.  I just don't see the point in A) replacing functional and interesting canon stories like that one, and B) doing so with inferior versions.  While perhaps not quite as silly as that write-up makes it sound, it's still not a great story.

Ha, Tal, Courtship is pretty awful, I'll grant you that, and Academy has some huge (Kyp) weaknesses (Durron), but the price is too high for me, as the worst points of the continuity were already easy enough to ignore.  I hardly ever thought about those books after I read them the first time, and, despite their weak points, they did often give us valuable and interesting additions to mythos, like Dathomir itself and the Witches, things that outlived their less than stellar origins to become respected parts of the canon.  The same basic idea of the Witches, wild, untrained Force users who don't truly understand how they harness the power, has appeared several times in Star Wars materials to good effect.

For me, the price is far too high. 
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Talavar

Quote from: BentonGrey on December 18, 2016, 03:12:49 AM
Spade, I actually have seen that episode, and it REALLY bothered me.  I just don't see the point in A) replacing functional and interesting canon stories like that one, and B) doing so with inferior versions.  While perhaps not quite as silly as that write-up makes it sound, it's still not a great story.

Ha, Tal, Courtship is pretty awful, I'll grant you that, and Academy has some huge (Kyp) weaknesses (Durron), but the price is too high for me, as the worst points of the continuity were already easy enough to ignore.  I hardly ever thought about those books after I read them the first time, and, despite their weak points, they did often give us valuable and interesting additions to mythos, like Dathomir itself and the Witches, things that outlived their less than stellar origins to become respected parts of the canon.  The same basic idea of the Witches, wild, untrained Force users who don't truly understand how they harness the power, has appeared several times in Star Wars materials to good effect.

For me, the price is far too high.

They could make a canon cartoon that was just The Wacky Adventures of Jar Jar Binks and have it run for 6 seasons and a movie, and, to me, it would still be worth it to have Dark Empire gone.  That turd was so damaging to Luke's character, and was just wildly out of keeping with the entire Star Wars universe.  Consigning the collected works of Kevin Anderson to the dustbin of history is just a bonus after that, along with a few other choice entries like Courtship.

HarryTrotter

^Yup,there it is.Pick one thing you didnt like and somehow that justifies it.That one bad thing must mean everything else was also bad.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with Spade here. I have fond memories of the EU and didn't have any particularly desire to see it jettisoned. Yes, there's bound to be bad stories/product but that's going to happen when you have so much of it. Tal expressed his opinion back when Force Awakens came out and I didn't agree with it then either (no offense intended, I just don't agree). As it happens I actually only read a small handful of Star Wars novels, which included the ones you guys didn't like such as Courtship and Jedi Search, as well as other ones people didn't like such as the Bounty Hunter Wars, and those were good enough for me to get me interested in the EU. Mind you, I only read the first installment of Timothy Zahn's Thrawn trilogy and I found it obscenely overrated, so maybe I'm just contrarian like that.

I actually missed the Rebels references in Rogue One, so good to know. I'll definitely have to try to catch them on a repeat viewing.

To bring it back to Rebels, a promotional image surfaced that indicates that a certain character will appear in Rebels:

Spoiler
Saw Guererra. I was just waiting for that to be confirmed.

On the topic of the latest episode, pretty good, but it's become depressingly evident that all the "good stuff" like Maul's vision and, potentially the business from the S2 finale involving Ahsoka will be saved for the S3 finale. I liked the episode even though I thought Ezra and Kanan seemed a little too at ease around Maul.

Spoiler
The reference to Pre Visla/the Deathwatch via the black lightsaber was a nice touch, as was the business involving the Nightsisters. Here's some cool Clone Wars trivia for you: the voices for the two Nightsister ghosts were provided by the voice actresses for Duchess Satine and Bariss Offee.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Talavar

Quote from: Spade on December 18, 2016, 06:15:32 AM
^Yup,there it is.Pick one thing you didnt like and somehow that justifies it.That one bad thing must mean everything else was also bad.

I guess you missed the list, but it wasn't one thing I didn't like.  In fact, it's pretty much the reverse of what you said: the handful of good things drowned by everything else that was bad. Because the old expanded universe did have some good stuff--the original Thrawn trilogy, mostly, the X-wing books, um, probably a third thing--but the bad stuff kept piling up until the sheer weight of it overwhelmed the little bit of good.  Multiple terrible trilogies and sub-series of books, bad fantasy novels with a thin Star Wars veneer laid over top, stuff that didn't understand what was important about the characters at all, and a bunch that was already invalidated by the Prequels.  The people behind the old Expanded Universe very quickly realized quality didn't matter; garbage would still sell.

To keep this tangentially on topic, as much as the current Star Wars overlords say everything is canon, Rebels and Clone Wars and the books & comics coming out now are still an expanded universe.  Forest Whitaker played someone who was from Clone Wars in Rogue One, but nothing about his role in the movie depended on anything from the cartoon.  Stuff from Rebels had blink and you missed it cameos in Rogue One.  Now, I don't love Rebels--I think it's okay, with some stronger episodes here and there, and that's pretty much my feelings about Clone Wars as well.  But an effort is being made to keep things consistent and unified now that was missing from the old EU from almost its earliest days. 

Ouflah

I know I'm in the minority, but I never thought of the Star Wars extended canon as real canon. I mean, anything that is not in the original medium (in this case the original medium being the live action movies) is expendable to movie makers. 
"Superhero deaths are basically an unproven hypothesis at this point."
-Mike Exner III

HarryTrotter

@Talavar Thats another straw argument.It wasnt canon already.But it was.Everything,and I do mean everything had to be okayed by George Lucas.
Im not that versed in the books,my domain was mostly DH comics,and I cant really remember anything sooo horrible.
@Outflah See thats the thing.It was as deep as you wanted to dive in.You just wanted the movies,thats cool.You wanted more,it was there.

And if it was all so terrible it had to be wiped from existance,why the hell are Disney and Marvel retreading that same ground?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

catwhowalksbyhimself

It wasn't that it was terrible.  It was that they didn't want to worry about contradicting something somewhere in all the years of stories when the sequels came out.  It would have been pretty much impossible not to do so.

Maybe they shouldn't have made such a big deal about it, but there was no way to do any sequels if they didn't.  Not unless they directly adapted the pre-existing material.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

HarryTrotter

^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

catwhowalksbyhimself

I agree that canceling the old extended universe was unnecessary.  They could have just declared it a separate universe and let authors continue to write in it.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

HarryTrotter

#108
Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 18, 2016, 05:33:16 PM
I agree that canceling the old extended universe was unnecessary.  They could have just declared it a separate universe and let authors continue to write in it.

My point exactly.Or at least let the ongoing series like Legacy 2 finish properly.
Fun Fact: The Old Republic is the only story still going in the original continuity,because EA has a contract they couldn't cancel.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Talavar

Quote from: Spade on December 18, 2016, 04:44:44 PM
@Talavar Thats another straw argument.It wasnt canon already.But it was.Everything,and I do mean everything had to be okayed by George Lucas.
Im not that versed in the books,my domain was mostly DH comics,and I cant really remember anything sooo horrible.

What was a straw argument?  That I didn't outline how the EU was filled with terrible books?  I felt it was a given, but if someone wants to defend any of the terrible books I've listed, I'm game.  For those just curious, here are some rather on the nose recaps of a few of them in all their stupid glory: http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-dumbest-thing-the-star-wars-expanded-universe-did-t-1740235732, http://io9.gizmodo.com/this-star-wars-expanded-universe-story-proves-that-luke-1744243073, http://io9.gizmodo.com/crystal-star-really-is-the-worst-star-wars-book-ever-1788426849.

As to 'soo horrible,' here's what happened in Dark Empire: the Emperor resurrects himself in a clone body a few years after RotJ, re-unifies the Empire and goes on the offensive with new superweapons that were apparently just sitting on ice, Luke joins the Dark Side and becomes the Emperor's apprentice for a bit, a bunch of random other Jedi, good and bad, are revealed to have survived too, the Emperor reveals further force powers dwarfing anything seen before in the films (beyond just cheating death a couple more times), more Imperial superweapons turn up, the Emperor tries to reenact the plot of Ghostbusters 2 and take over Leia's kid's body for himself, and then it finally all implodes after making bad fan fiction look good in comparison.

Not only is Dark Empire terrible in and of itself, but it actively undoes or contradicts key developments of the original films, a hallmark of terrible EU writing.  Luke resists the Dark Side in RotJ and Empire even when it might have saved his life/his friends' lives/the Rebellion; here he joins up because the Emperor reveals a new party trick.  The Imperial resources and super weapons that keep popping up verge on the side of comedy.  It is awful.

HarryTrotter

#110
The straw argument of: It was never canon anyway.We heard that before.And the straw argument of: X sucked,so the whole thing had to go.
Yeah,there was something stupid in some obscure RPGs manual that you didnt like.Makes perfect sense to throw out the baby with the bath water.
At least Dark Empire was original,unlike a certain movie I could name.And if the new owners disliked it,they could have just ignored it.
Next up will be the straw argument of:They didnt take your comics.That one always comes up.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Ouflah

Quote from: Spade on December 18, 2016, 05:15:45 PM
^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.
Well, it's not like you can't interpret the new movies as an alternate universe anyway. You don't really need a studio executive to say "this is a different universe with an alternate future" to be able to imagine that it is. In the end it's all fiction anyway. I'd worry less about what a bunch of bigwigs consider officially canon and just enjoy what you think is good.
"Superhero deaths are basically an unproven hypothesis at this point."
-Mike Exner III

HarryTrotter

#112
Yeah,the problem with that is that those stories stopped.They took away the resolution to those stories.I cant go back and enjoy things that never happened.Like the games that got canceled,for example.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Ouflah

True. Most of my favorite movies never got sequels, so I know dem feels.
"Superhero deaths are basically an unproven hypothesis at this point."
-Mike Exner III

Talavar

Quote from: Spade on December 18, 2016, 06:36:40 PM
The straw argument of: It was never canon anyway.We heard that before.And the straw argument of: X sucked,so the whole thing had to go.
Yeah,there was something stupid in some obscure RPGs manual that you didnt like.Makes perfect sense to throw out the baby with the bath water.
At least Dark Empire was original,unlike a certain movie I could name.And if the new owners disliked it,they could have just ignored it.
Next up will be the straw argument of:They didnt take your comics.That one always comes up.

Where did I say it say it was never canon?  I think you're confusing me with Ouflah, who said:

Quote from: Ouflah on December 18, 2016, 04:15:51 PM
I know I'm in the minority, but I never thought of the Star Wars extended canon as real canon. I mean, anything that is not in the original medium (in this case the original medium being the live action movies) is expendable to movie makers. 

This stuff was canon, it was just 75% terrible.  I mean, Ouflah is right: the movies will always have primacy over the ancillary materials.  Just like the Marvel movies will continue to largely ignore Agents of Shield and the Netflix shows.  Eventually this new canon Disney is making will contradict itself, and when it does, it's the movies that will matter.  But still, not my argument.

And the books I was referencing were hardly obscure RPG manuals.  These were coming out right after the Thrawn trilogy, foundational books to much of the EU, and most were best-sellers despite sucking hard.  I don't really know what you think the EU was without books like these?  RPG manuals, maybe.

Finally: Dark Empire was original?  With its resurrected Palpatine, multiple Death Star stand-ins, and rehashing the climax of RotJ (not to mention Ghostbusters 2)?  You're either joking or using that word wrong.  Sure, Disney could have pretended it didn't exist, but if they just picked and chose from the old canon, how would that be different in practice from what they are doing?  Thrawn is on Rebels, after all.  Some elements of the old EU are making the jump into the new canon.

HarryTrotter

#115
Look,everything that runs for 40 or so years will have its share of cr@p,thats true.
I can ignore the bad things that did happen,but I cant enjoy the good things that didnt.I cant watch Star Wars Detours,when Disney refuses to release it,for once.
Another thing,it was never meant to replace the movies,but to supplement them.Its a bit more interesting if you can say: Oh,I know that guy.
And the DisCanon has its share of weird and stupid too.Lightsaber crystals being sentient?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Quote from: Spade on December 18, 2016, 05:15:45 PM
^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.

You're a funny guy...

HarryTrotter

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 19, 2016, 07:09:33 AM
Quote from: Spade on December 18, 2016, 05:15:45 PM
^And that obviously wouldnt work.Who would want to watch a movie based on a book?
And having 2 universes at the same time also wouldnt work.Because peoples minds would implode.I mean a work of fiction having 2 or more timelines?Unheard off.

You're a funny guy...

A bit too much,I know.Im just trying to say a blank slate reboot was not the only option they had.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Quote from: Talavar on December 17, 2016, 05:53:18 PM
Yeah, the A-wings and B-wing in Rebels kinda bugs me too--though the actual B-wing episode is nowhere as bad as that linked post makes it out to be.  But we're living in a world where the Crystal Star, Courtship of Princess Leia, Jedi Academy Trilogy, Dark Empire comic, Darksaber and so many more are no longer canon, and that is more than worth the price. 

In other news, didn't anyone catch the Rebels references in Rogue One? 
Spoiler
The Ghost is visibly parked on Yavin 4, and supposedly takes part in the climactic space battle (which I didn't catch), a call over the PA goes out to someone with Hera's last name (either for her or her father), and a droid that looks like Chopper rolls by (which I also didn't spot personally).

I know there were a few folks here who said they didn't see or catch all of the SWR Easter Egg/References in Rogue One.

Spoiler
-The first I caught of course was the Hammerhead Corvettes.  They had a prominent role in Leia's SWR episode and were prominently used to turn the tide of the battle for the Alliance in Rogue One.
-It took another viewing and while I did NOT see the Ghost parked in Yavin, it's pretty clear in the final battle, you can see it when the Alliance fleet arrive at Scarif and in the "#1 in theaters" commercials they show, you can also see it in the lower left hand corner if you don't want to go watch the movie again.
-Hera(or General Syndulla) is called on the intercom after the scene of the Alliance Council when Jyn is walking away.
-After they begin to leave the hanger, Chopper is seen rolling out of the hanger, exiting screen left.
-Also, though he hasn't been in the show yet, Saw Gerrera will be appearing in SWR shortly and of course he has a prominent role in the movie.
-Lastly, in Jedha, you can see Hondo and his band come on screen when- joking.  Hondo's not in it.

Shogunn2517

Okay, so I saw Rogue One again and have a couple of edits from the previous post:

Spoiler

-The Ghost is INDEED parked at Yavin Base.  It is seen CLEARLY with the first open shot of the Yavin temple is shown.  Or at least 3/4ths of it on the left side of the screen.  Additionally, it's seen once or twice during the battle sequence as well.
-Chopper isn't seen when the Rebels leave, but rather is seen when they cut back to Yavin during the battle.

Additionally, more Rogue One connections:
Spoiler
http://screencrush.com/rogue-one-star-wars-rebels-cassian-andor-fulcrum/

Cassian Andor uses the codename "Fulcrum" also used by Ahsoka Tano and Agent Kallus.  That said, and judging from the popularity of the character, I can only imagine he shows up and maybe rather prominently in SWR over the second half of Season 3 and likely Season 4 as well.