Captain America 3: [....SPOILER IF YOU CLICK]

Started by Shogunn2517, October 14, 2014, 03:32:27 AM

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Shogunn2517

CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/robert-downey-jr-to-join-captain-america-3-exclusive-1201312229/

Although the article is about Robert Downey Jr. signing a new deal to be featured in the next Captain America movie due to begin production next year for a release in the proceeding year, what's notable is the fact that the role was originally written as not much more than a cameo, until RDJ requested a larger role(money) and producers decided to write the character out, essentially going another direction.  But with the release of this article, it is confirmed that RDJ is on the verge of signing a FEATURED role in CAPTAIN AMERICA 3, which will be written in form of Marvel's 2006 Civil War

At least this is what's being reported now.  Of course such a movie would easily rival the scope of the Avengers and as such I would imagine it'd feature more than just Captain America and Iron Man.

Podmark

Well this sounds great.
It'd been wildly speculated that Cap 3 would be Civil War, but I'd been wondering how they could pull it off without SHIELD or other major heroes appearing. But if RDJ is really set to appear then they can probably make it work. And it is the next step in the story of Bucky.
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Talavar

One thing most sites aren't reporting is that, just as this coming summers Age of Ultron has very little in common with the comic of that name, any Marvel Cinematic Universe version of Civil War will have to be radically different from the comic storyline. 

BentonGrey

Ugh, I hope so, Tal.  I can't say how little an adaptation of that story interests me.
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catwhowalksbyhimself

It would actually fit right in with Cap 2 and Season 2 of Agents of SHIELD.  Shield's been condemned and blamed for all HYDRA's stuff, so it would make sense for the public to start eyeing the heroes that they supported as suspicious next.  The thing is, this would make Cap and IM more likely to take the opposite of their stands in the comics.

I expect it would likely turn out to be very different though.
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BentonGrey

Do they have the same director from Cap 2 onboard for 3?  'Cause that guy's got my full confidence.
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spydermann93

Quote from: BentonGrey on October 14, 2014, 10:59:28 PM
Do they have the same director from Cap 2 onboard for 3?  'Cause that guy's got my full confidence.

Same, here! :thumbup:

Uncle Yuan

Quote from: BentonGrey on October 14, 2014, 10:59:28 PM
Do they have the same director from Cap 2 onboard for 3?  'Cause that guy's got my full confidence.

Man, the opening scene alone is worth the price of admission!
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For the people who are still alive."

Starman

Cons:

* Marvel is just doing this to counter Batman vs Superman ... this will be Captain America vs Iron Man. I'm not sure how I feel about marketing strategy having importance over organic story-telling. I'd kind of just like to see another good Captain America film rather than Avengers 2.5. Instead, the two biggest comic book films of the year will both be heroes beating each other up.

* Iron Man is anti-government in the MCU, and there really aren't enough heroes or heroes with secret identities for them to do something similar to the comic book Civil War. If they announced a Civil War themed film after Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Dr Strange, Ant Man, and whatever characters the plan to introduce in Agents of SHIELD had been introduced, I could see that storyline working. Speaking of SHIELD, what role would they play in this since being demolished in CA:TWS??

* Iron Man is becoming the MCU's Wolverine. There can be too much of a good thing. Iron 2 & 3 were pretty ordinary although they made a ton of money. Once again, I'd rather see Captain America break the comic book trilogy curse with another good film instead Avengers: Disassembled.

Pros:

* Positing Iron Man, the big bread winner of the MCU, as a "bad guy" is interesting.

* Civil War would be a good way to get around to Iron Man exiling Hulk and spinning-off a "Planet Hulk" film

* I guess this would be a good way to cram in some cameos from minor superheroes?

John Jr.

Quote from: BentonGrey on October 14, 2014, 04:13:39 PM
Ugh, I hope so, Tal.  I can't say how little an adaptation of that story interests me.

Same here. I hated Civil War...

Podmark

#10
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 14, 2014, 10:59:28 PM
Do they have the same director from Cap 2 onboard for 3?  'Cause that guy's got my full confidence.

Yes!


I imagine the movie will only display inspiration of the story but few plot details, much like The Winter Soldier. The infrastructure really isn't there to do things the same way. You'd need far more heroes, and more (any?) that have secret identities.
What I would expect is a different government/hero conflict. I don't think identities would work with the current MCU, but forced registering and working for the government. Steve and Tony would get pitted against each other. Falcon, Bucky, Crossbones, are all supposed to return and I'd expect Agent 13 as well.
Of course what is the big thing from Civil War that they'd want for a Captain America movie? Cap's death and the sidekick taking the shield. That's what I think this is all really about.
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BentonGrey

Bah, I do NOT want to see that.  I LOVE Chris Evans as Cap!
God Bless
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John Jr.

I agree with Pod, the Marvel Movieverse will need an entire new structure for the "Civil War" theme, since they don't have two armies of super powered guys like the comics. But I'm kinda tired of all the "hero vs hero" theme, I don't have anything against it, per se, but it was done to the death in recent comics and now we'll have two different movies following the trend.

spydermann93

As tiring as the Hero vs Hero theme is, I am definitely more than willing to give Marvel Studios their fair chance on this.

They haven't disappointed me yet (except Iron Man 2), and Cap 2 was reeaally good!  I believe that they'll do this right, and I can't wait to see it.

lugaru

Honestly I think Civil War was a great idea, but was somewhat poorly implemented. I've been more interested in people revisiting that story (which has happened in a few places, mostly games) than the original story.

BentonGrey

Quote from: lugaru on October 15, 2014, 11:07:34 PM
Honestly I think Civil War was a great idea, but was somewhat poorly implemented. I've been more interested in people revisiting that story (which has happened in a few places, mostly games) than the original story.

The idea isn't bad, but it would need to be dramatically changed to work in the movie-verse, as lots of folks have said.  It seems like, to be effective, the concept would have to be changed so much that it would be radically transformed. 
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Jimaras8

Of course Marvel is going to keep the truth be told very socialised and political background of the conflict and bring it into MCU status. It will be interesting to see how the battles goes and if the appearance of Thanos is going to bring them back together. I don't know if Marvel does it to counter BvS but i honestly don't think so. Feige is said to have the event in works for years and it makes sense launching it before the first generation of Avengers expire their contracts.

lugaru

The other funny thing is that they will need to introduce a lot more marvel characters, or Civil War will basically be that fight scene in the woods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1g-B8BJzwc

Maybe they can license back Spidey, the Fantastic Four and other characters that they are licensing out. Hopefully it will be like the 1 good thing about X-Men the last Stand (wall to wall mutants) and not the bad things (some awful characterizations and plot devices).

Shogunn2517

#18
As first noted by JeyNyce, it's now official, the title is CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR.  But now, it won't only star Robert Downey Jr., but also will star Chadwick Boseman as T'Challa.  I don't know if Captain Marvel or Doctor Strange will be in the 3rd Captain America, but it has been confirmed that Black Panther WILL BE.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/marvel-casts-chadwick-boseman-as-744491

JeyNyce

Now I have a question for you guys.....

Do you think Marvel/ Disney already had this planned out already or did they just announce another movie, wait until fans say what they want to see and then write a story around it?  If you saw the ending of Cap 2, you knew that Cap 3 was going to be about finding Bucky, but since fans wanted to see Black Panther, and then Civil War, I think Marvel said "Let's see if we can add that stuff" and here we are.
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Talavar

Quote from: JeyNyce on October 29, 2014, 01:52:08 AM
Now I have a question for you guys.....

Do you think Marvel/ Disney already had this planned out already or did they just announce another movie, wait until fans say what they want to see and then write a story around it?  If you saw the ending of Cap 2, you knew that Cap 3 was going to be about finding Bucky, but since fans wanted to see Black Panther, and then Civil War, I think Marvel said "Let's see if we can add that stuff" and here we are.

I think Marvel is planning longer term than we sometimes realize.  Apparently the Civil War stuff is getting set-up in Avengers 2 (in post-production) and was the reason for the Black Widow/Capitol Hill scene in Cap 2 (a scene shot late in the production of that film).  This isn't just fan service.

Shogunn2517

#21
Quote from: Talavar on October 29, 2014, 02:18:20 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on October 29, 2014, 01:52:08 AM
Now I have a question for you guys.....

Do you think Marvel/ Disney already had this planned out already or did they just announce another movie, wait until fans say what they want to see and then write a story around it?  If you saw the ending of Cap 2, you knew that Cap 3 was going to be about finding Bucky, but since fans wanted to see Black Panther, and then Civil War, I think Marvel said "Let's see if we can add that stuff" and here we are.

I think Marvel is planning longer term than we sometimes realize.  Apparently the Civil War stuff is getting set-up in Avengers 2 (in post-production) and was the reason for the Black Widow/Capitol Hill scene in Cap 2 (a scene shot late in the production of that film).  This isn't just fan service.

See, this is the thing, with Sebastian Stan having the PC scene and technically still needing to be redeemed, they might have planned to go that way in Captain America 3, but I think rather I or someone else linked that before RDJ signed on for Captain America 3, it was something else and when he signed to FEATURE, they had to re-write it FOR him, in which case I think then is when they wrote in the Civil War storyline.  But then again, you have to also keep in mind Emily VanCamp was also in CA2 and I'd doubt she was just signed for what amounts to a cameo for a single movie.  I had to think they were going to bring her back and she too had a role in CW.  So maybe they wanted to go in this direction, but didn't commit to it until they knew RDJ was all-in for the role.

Spoiler
And as a separate theory, since we know AGE OF ULTRON won't be the "Age of Ultron" storyline, I can imagine that since this is a Captain America sequel and not an Avengers sequel, that the storyline will be a shell of what the "Civil War" storyline was.  There won't be a lineup split of the entire team, but focused just on Captain America and Iron Man.  But as speculated, the Avengers' lineup won't stay static and will be changed by the end of AAOU.  And really with THREE new members, I doubt they could sustain NINE members altogether.  By the end of the movie, Tony Stark will no longer be a part of the team as we know it(actually, I doubt the Hulk will either and maybe one other).  But The Avengers will set up Captain America 3 where Iron Man will be Captain America's main antagonist.  As it was, Iron Man will be pro-registration and Captain America will be anti-registration.  The movie will be Captain America vs Iron Man, Hero-vs-Hero which, I think audiences respond to.  Not sure what Black Panther's role will be, but I have to imagine Sharon Carter will play into it as well...  But this is my theory.

Talavar

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on October 29, 2014, 04:37:06 PM
Quote from: Talavar on October 29, 2014, 02:18:20 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on October 29, 2014, 01:52:08 AM
Now I have a question for you guys.....

Do you think Marvel/ Disney already had this planned out already or did they just announce another movie, wait until fans say what they want to see and then write a story around it?  If you saw the ending of Cap 2, you knew that Cap 3 was going to be about finding Bucky, but since fans wanted to see Black Panther, and then Civil War, I think Marvel said "Let's see if we can add that stuff" and here we are.

I think Marvel is planning longer term than we sometimes realize.  Apparently the Civil War stuff is getting set-up in Avengers 2 (in post-production) and was the reason for the Black Widow/Capitol Hill scene in Cap 2 (a scene shot late in the production of that film).  This isn't just fan service.

See, this is the thing, with Sebastian Stan having the PC scene and technically still needing to be redeemed, they might have planned to go that way in Captain America 3, but I think rather I or someone else linked that before RDJ signed on for Captain America 3, it was something else and when he signed to FEATURE, they had to re-write it FOR him, in which case I think then is when they wrote in the Civil War storyline.  But then again, you have to also keep in mind Emily VanCamp was also in CA2 and I'd doubt she was just signed for what amounts to a cameo for a single movie.  I had to think they were going to bring her back and she too had a role in CW.  So maybe they wanted to go in this direction, but didn't commit to it until they knew RDJ was all-in for the role.

Spoiler
And as a separate theory, since we know AGE OF ULTRON won't be the "Age of Ultron" storyline, I can imagine that since this is a Captain America sequel and not an Avengers sequel, that the storyline will be a shell of what the "Civil War" storyline was.  There won't be a lineup split of the entire team, but focused just on Captain America and Iron Man.  But as speculated, the Avengers' lineup won't stay static and will be changed by the end of AAOU.  And really with THREE new members, I doubt they could sustain NINE members altogether.  By the end of the movie, Tony Stark will no longer be a part of the team as we know it(actually, I doubt the Hulk will either and maybe one other).  But The Avengers will set up Captain America 3 where Iron Man will be Captain America's main antagonist.  As it was, Iron Man will be pro-registration and Captain America will be anti-registration.  The movie will be Captain America vs Iron Man, Hero-vs-Hero which, I think audiences respond to.  Not sure what Black Panther's role will be, but I have to imagine Sharon Carter will play into it as well...  But this is my theory.

I agree with most of your theory there, and it meshes with a lot I've heard, at least broadly.  As to Marvel planning, just because Cap 2 seemed to set Cap 3 up to be the Redemption of Bucky Barnes, nothing means they ever meant to do that immediately, or even as the major focus of a whole film (as a major action movie, I don't know what the storyline would have been there).

Podmark

Quote from: JeyNyce on October 29, 2014, 01:52:08 AM
Now I have a question for you guys.....

Do you think Marvel/ Disney already had this planned out already or did they just announce another movie, wait until fans say what they want to see and then write a story around it?  If you saw the ending of Cap 2, you knew that Cap 3 was going to be about finding Bucky, but since fans wanted to see Black Panther, and then Civil War, I think Marvel said "Let's see if we can add that stuff" and here we are.

I think Marvel has the broad ideas of what they want their movies to be. Kevin Fiege, who is the head of Marvel Studios, has gone on record that he's had the idea for Cap 3 for almost 10 years (basically since the comic came out). I doubt Marvel has all the specifics (such as RDJ being in it) but I think the broad plan has been in the works for years.

I'm still confident that Bucky (and Falcon) will play a major role in Cap 3.
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mignash

Quote from: Uncle Yuan on October 14, 2014, 11:36:34 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on October 14, 2014, 10:59:28 PM
Do they have the same director from Cap 2 onboard for 3?  'Cause that guy's got my full confidence.

Man, the opening scene alone is worth the price of admission!

"On your left..?"?

BentonGrey

Quote from: Podmark on October 30, 2014, 04:33:30 AM
I'm still confident that Bucky (and Falcon) will play a major role in Cap 3.

I agree, and I hope you're right.  If not, they're wasting the WONDERFUL work they did with Cap 2, and that hardly seems likely.  However, that story could easily be told within another, larger narrative.
God Bless
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crimsonquill

If you want to see the seeds of Civil War that is coming in Capt 3.. check out this scene which was leaked from the Marvel reveal on Tuesday. Just a little chat between Tony and Steve about how to handle problems before they start.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w75cwgEjnQ4

Just makes you go "WHOA!" and wonder what will happen between them.

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BentonGrey

God Bless
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Shogunn2517

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Ant-Man-Appear-Captain-America-Civil-War-71331.html

Pretty significant update.  Over the last few days we've seen concepts of Captain America and Iron Man.  To prevent spoilers, please google.

However with this release (which I guess was to be expected), the cast is rounding out.  Moreover, an actual plot description:

Spoiler
"'Captain America: Civil War' picks up where 'Avengers: Age of Ultron' left off, as Steve Rogers leads the new team of Avengers in their continued efforts to safeguard humanity. After another international incident involving the Avengers results in collateral damage, political pressure mounts to install a system of accountability and a governing body to determine when to enlist the services of the team. The new status quo fractures the Avengers while they try to protect the world from a new and nefarious villain."

This also clears up a few things that I was very curious about:
Spoiler
In the Marvel Cinematic Universe, secret identities aren't that big of a deal.  Everyone knows who Tony Stark and Steve Rogers is.  Black Widow, War Machine and Hawkeye are probably public record(if Dick Cheney has anything to say about it) and Thor and Vision are who they are.  In the comic version of Civil War, the government wants to know all secret identities registered and that's the crux of the argument.  But here, it seems like a matter of control of the group like any government agency.  Which seems to be a highlight the end of the first Avengers.  The council was thinking about controlling the Avengers while Fury wanted to keep them independent.  To be an extension of the government or not is the bottom line for both.

Perhaps it could be Martin's character working with Baron Zemo to control the Avengers, which could unite the team at the end....  Interesting to see what developes.   

But it's quite clear this is essential The Avengers 2.5:  Civil War

Lionheart

The plot description and verified cast list is impressive. Avengers 2.5 for sure, with a continuation of the Cap story from Winter Soldier. It will be interesting to see how they blend and develop those two threads.