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Author Topic: Marvel Movies  (Read 15715 times)

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #510 on: July 18, 2017, 11:43:36 PM »
One thing on the dispute and I'm done:

Starman - I wasn't dogpiling on anyone. I was calling the whole thing out of line esp seeing as it is nothing but a summer superhero movie (ie sit back and enjoy it as entertainment). Sorry if it came out as dogpiling on 'mato and them. As for the racial tension, that was the reason I wanted it locked because currently this thread is full of anger and drama...no good discussion comes about in that emotional whirlwind. What we need to do is diffuse this, take a breath, step back, calm down, and then have a true, meaningful discussion on it.

But what do I know? Not like people care...and I'm done.

Shocker: Dear Satan, that is a whole load of superhero fatigue potential! Looks like they didn't learn from the 70s and 80s over-saturation...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 11:58:02 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #511 on: July 19, 2017, 12:03:05 AM »
I know right? I don't blame anyone who says "there's too many Superhero movies/tv shows" at this point!

Speaking personally for myself, it'd be one thing if it was stuff I'm not a fan of (like say, Ka-Zar or Warlord, or Kamandi or something) but I like all of the properties I just mentioned. And while I didn't used to be a fan of Legion, I've started reading his X-Men Legacy run while waiting for my chance to see more of the show, and he's growing on me.
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that they cannot imagine that TRUE strength of SPIRIT--can even exist."
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #512 on: July 19, 2017, 12:29:58 AM »
Last post I make before I leave this discussion alone too:

I want to say for the record that I do not feel that anyone in this thread has "attacked" me or "dogpiled" on me. I respect the points made by everyone arguing with me the last few pages of this thread (yes, even Spade. I may think he was trolling, but he DID bring up valid points) and, if anything, the people trying to defend me have been more frustrating than the people supposedly attacking me. I don't like the phrasing of C6's comment either, but even I feel it's long since been addressed by this point. And it kinda disgusts me to see people continuing to use me and my posts to justify continually attacking other board members. I may DISAGREE with them, but that is the entire POINT of discussion. Benton in particular is a good friend of mine, and we are probably going to continue discussing Homecoming in a civil manner via PM.

SS: I feel you on there being a ton of comic book shows to keep track of. People always ask me if I watch non-superhero tv shows, but I'm like "Do you even understand how many Marvel/DC shows I have on my plate right now!?! I don't have time to watch ___ seasons of ____"

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #513 on: July 19, 2017, 12:41:01 AM »
Getting caught up on long-running tv shows is time consuming. I was behind in Walking Dead for a good 2 years and it's too bad, because when I finally caught up I found the show got a lot better.
I watch a lot of stuff in groups so that helps.
-"Wherever kindness is MOCKED--and CRUELTY is worn as a badge of honor--THERE you will find them. So WEAK inside,

that they cannot imagine that TRUE strength of SPIRIT--can even exist."
~Peregrine, describing Hydra, U.S. Avengers #8

Offline SickAlice

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #514 on: July 19, 2017, 12:49:05 AM »
Anyone making streaming shows is understandable. It is or may be the next platform. Getting in now means having a solid place in it's future if it does outmode conventional cable service. It always seems improbable now but I remember when that was thought about satellite exclusive shows (namely SciFI channel, Comedy Channel and Cartoon Network as well the Howard Stern Show got it's start there). Or reality tv shows. Second, and I read this a few times, streaming free's artists up from editorial and network dictation and allows them to do the kind of shows they want to. Or at least not have their pitch sitting in a board room full of executives for the next year or so.

Saturation agreed. And how! I'm probably worse then most though. The most I saw of Agents Of SHIELD was the first season, past that I've only caught cinematic releases and three out of four on video release. No biggie though, I haven't nor do read every comic released either. I have had Legion pitched at me a few times though and read and loved the run it was based on. That one gets a maybe in downtime check.

Anyways, your all people and great people. Your all humans and have emotions sometimes. We all have problems relating ourselves and with composition at times. No one in this thread is a villain. Okay, I am. But I'm also super lazy so the world needn't worry. On the topic any of you seem to be at odds about you all also seem to have stated your stances, intents and feelings towards the issue. You still all respect what another thinks and thats something, just what I'm reading imo *shrug* (I still say I miss the fun stuff when I'm in the ER, lol). Else if I may what I usually see in situations where there's a charred string of posts in a thread is the brass just deletes/omits that chunk from where they determine it began to ended. Just my suggestion. Else and finally on that the topic of racism, bigotry, and the interpretation of what is offensive and how to rectify the situation is an important one. Perhaps a separate topic for that alone? Naturally with a disclaimer and something like " no hitting below the bread basket ". Or "dogpiling " either it seems jk (not even sure what that is but I detest animal abuse). Yadda yadda, have a fresh cup of OJ, hug and what not. Won't matter to any of you that much a week from now if it hasn't already fizzled out like I said in my former post so might as well not yield it now either, eh? Stay fantastic people.

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #515 on: July 19, 2017, 01:56:01 AM »
QUICK SEQUE:

You dang kids! Get off me lawn!

Now where de 'ell is me vodka?!?
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:06:20 AM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline SickAlice

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #516 on: July 19, 2017, 03:27:35 AM »
They were peeing on it! And they where in their fifties! You'd throw a hammer at too, yeesh.  :rolleyes:

Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #517 on: July 19, 2017, 07:14:03 AM »
Just a quick note for anyone that might be interested, I was just giving MY perspective coming from someone that would be considered "diversity".  That's all.  I'm not even mad.  In fact, I don't know what's all the fuss is about as far as "lock this thread" and stuff.  I didn't really think anyone was out of line really. 

But... that said, Tomato, I hope you're reading THIS part:

Technically speaking, they never used the name "Ned Leeds" in the movie.  Though that probaby won't help your problems you have with the character, I just thought I'd point it out it could(could) be someone else.

Offline SickAlice

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #518 on: July 19, 2017, 01:55:27 PM »
That's commendable Shogunn. Full disclosure there's been a pretty scathing term flipped out here and there that from my end is a real no-no, but likewise I'm not getting riled either and just kept reading. I pretty much notice intent in all things, part of my clinical training, and haven't seen any yet. Bringing up things and terms that are charred and disparaging yes, but I don't see anyone going guns blazing at anyone with those things in the barrels either. Again I wasn't present though and I'm more focused on my own physical thing right now so more *shrug*.

Else back on topic. Anyone who has taken in the volume of Marvel based shows I would ask what they believe of them is the one that's the most imperative to watch, the must see. I'm interested myself and add episodes in my down time here and there but like Tomato here and others just don't have the time to see em all.

-
Actually I'm going to edit here and hit on topic one of three as well. As far as Homecoming is concerned I don't think any of you have been wrong but I'm wondering if your keying into the why or not. Peter is a white teenager. His classmates and friends that he pays the most attention to and has repertoires with are not. His teacher is an old lame white guy. The Vulture is an older white jerk, which he actually is in the comics anyways. The why is pretty standard though and it's marketing. Disney acquired Marvel back when for a primary reason and it was that they had issues getting the attention, favor and of course monies of teenage boys.

So take a look at this version of Peter and align it to any current demographic studies of white boys his age (current again, not when we we're kids). You'll find this is pretty inline with how white guys his age actually think. And I'll add here the US has changed and diversity has been more spread out especially over the course of the past decade. The melting pot effect is now in full swing and whereas yourself as a child may have say attended a high school that only had a handful of students and/or faculty that were not white or you were one of those few diverse these days that isn't the case at all. In most public school system classrooms and out to city populations there is widely more diverse spectrum of people then there was when Spider-man the comic book was conceived. So this is actually logical.

Back to Peter and boys his age, despite artistic integrity foremost it is a product and needs to make money. It needs to pay back it's initial investment and to do that has to sell x2 that gross in net, not even speaking of the shareholders here and all the people involved in the film getting checks and royalties. Nor the current state of piracy and the chunk that takes out of projected revenue. And so forth. The point I'm driving is of yes it does not match the Peter you grew up with. Because it's not supposed to. That Peter was meant to sell to your demographic. It wasn't foremost artistic either. But that day is long gone and this Peter is for all intents and purposes meant to the Spider-man for this generation, generation of course meaning children his age not adults ours. Because there parent are the ones that are going to be buying them all the merchandise related to it. There the ones that are going to for example buy up trapper keepers with Peter in his homemade costume fighting the Vulture next month for the school year. And again it isn't all immoral either anyways. It can be said it's a good thing to appeal to youth and let them have something in fact it is the priority of most parents and peers. As well imo again laying out the option for children, especially white boys, to have a role model that encourages them to respect diversity as well the opposite sex isn't a bad thing because the opposite turn certainly hasn't done any good in raising open minded and kinder adults.

So in summation all of you are correct in that the things your pointing out in the film are in fact in it, also no fault of your own as you did not put them there but are you sure it's actually a flaw in the production and/or does the state of an enterprise in a long past era really have any baring on one in 2017? In case that's too vague what I'm saying is as a comic book diehard I've read the notion " Doesn't match the source material " as often as have you all. And it clearly does not but what I'm asking is how does that have any real import on the current motion vehicle? Because I can't follow the logic there, not when weighing it against the entire audience for this media. The keyword here is adaptation.

That's what I got out of all this in the briefest nutshell I could type.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 02:33:24 PM by SickAlice »

Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #519 on: July 20, 2017, 03:14:48 AM »
That's quite the brief nutshell, SA. ;)

Anyway, I hear what you're saying.  And although there's the line between those that prefer a strict adherence to the source material and those that don't mind changes because of it being, what you said an "adaptation" or what others have said a different "MCU Universe" and that's all well and good.

But in some cases it's just weird.  Like Michelle.  Okay you want to call her MJ.  Fine.  You want her to be Peter's love interest?  Fine.  Don't want to give her the red hair and say it's more metaphorical than anything?  Okay, I'll let it slide.  Then just call the girl Mary Jane already. Lol.  Rather she is or she isn't.  It's like they tried to put half their foot in and one out.  I think Zendaya did a splendid enough job either way and would love to see more of her, whether she's "Michelle Jane" or "Mary Jane", black white or purple.

Not a huge gripe. It's whatever... just weird.

Offline SickAlice

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #520 on: July 20, 2017, 05:34:54 AM »
For me it is. When I don't get it down in detail then I confuse people. So more *shrugs* Shruggle McShruggleMuch in here.

I get the fine line too. I'm an eighties kid. So me I'm looking at it going "erm". But just hitting on the why's of it and why it doesn't constitute a flaw in film making, which comic fans tend to point to it as. It doesn't align with ones preference, understandable and totally in the right even. But that doesn't mean it's produced wrong either. Thing is as hard as it can be to even swallow these things only matter in a large way to people who read lots of superhero comic books. It's burnt into our retinas so much that we can't help but to see it stand out. Like picture a person raised in a bunker who is shown pictures of the sun but it's blue. Then they see the actual sun and of course even after being detailed on how it's supposed to be it's going to stand out to them. At least for so much as time before they adjust to it, hence the nature of change and the human minds struggle against. The other part of that jagged pill is those of us who devote to reading comics are a tiny fraction of a worldwide released major motion pictures audience, perhaps even the smallest demographics that will actually be paying to see it. Not because a large number aren't getting there but comic diehards are a minority. Hence retroactively anyone producing the film is going to look at the majority of their customer demographic and what appeals to them first and foremost. Like I cared that Juggernaut was a mutant as well. Most of the people that watched and enjoyed the film and the film version of the character wouldn't be affected by such a thing.

Just pointing this out. We are here so of course the amount of comic diehards is 100% right here and now, so it matters to us. But it doesn't denote production quality regardless and now that the numbers are in this sucker...whoo, looks like they did something very right by a lot of peoples accounts.

Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #521 on: July 20, 2017, 08:31:44 AM »
Yeah, I get that.  Like I understand Tomato's gripe with Ned.  I've heard others say similar.  The thing is I wasn't a big reader of Miles Morales's Spider-Man so I had no frame of reference.  Even Donald Glover's "yeah I have a nephew that lives in the city" went on deaf ears and I wouldn't know known anything about it until I was told days later.  So if Tomato says Ned is pretty much all the characteristics of "Ganke" but just named "Ned" instead it wouldn't bother me.  Or many others who aren't as familiar with the book at Tomato is.  But since he's familiar with the book, I can see how it might stick out and I respect that.

Nice analogy with the sun though.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #522 on: July 20, 2017, 04:03:03 PM »
Did a bit of digging on a few things, figured I'd share them

-Michelle in the MCU is credited as "Michelle Jones," thus the "MJ" nickname. I'm kinda with Shogunn, I wish they'd just call her Mary Jane, but the way it was presented it was supposed to be a "Surprise" in the last minutes of the film (which is why I kept trying to spoiler that bit initially, but oh well).
-Ned's last name isn't given in the film, but I wouldn't be shocked if down the line he's credited as "Ned Lee," which is not only a natural mix of "Ned Leeds" and "Ganke Lee" but also the name given to Ned in the Spectacular Spider-Man cartoon. Ironically, Ganke has used "Ned" as a pseudonym in the comics, but it was more recently and that may have a nod and wink to the film choice rather than the other way around.

Again, I think my only issue with Ned is that because he's a "mix" of both characters, it leaves little room for us to see both.

Offline Tomato

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #523 on: July 23, 2017, 04:53:51 PM »
So I came across a cool little MCU related article today I thought I'd share:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/tom-holland-confirms-that-peter-parker-appeared-in-iron-1796423390

Quote
For years, it was one of the better fan theories out there, and now it’s confirmed to be true: Peter Parker was in Iron Man 2.

“It is Peter Parker,” Spider-Man: Homecoming star Tom Holland told The Huffington Post.

He’s referring to a moment near the end of Iron Man 2 when a young boy wearing an Iron Man mask at the Stark Expo stands up to Hammer drone. Then Iron Man comes down and saves him. “Nice work, kid,” he says. Here’s the scene:

We never see the kid’s face and fans had long thought that could have been Peter Parker, since a) he lives in Queens, which is where the Stark Expo was held; b) Peter would be interested in technology and a fan of Tony Stark/Iron Man; and c) the age lines up.

Now granted, this is totally retconned in and Holland later clarified this (He had a conversation with Feige about it and was allowed to say it, but it clearly was not intended from the beginning) but it's still a really cool bit of trivia to have out there.

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #524 on: July 23, 2017, 07:44:04 PM »
Yeah, I heard about that a week or so ago. Neat.
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that they cannot imagine that TRUE strength of SPIRIT--can even exist."
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Offline Ouflah

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #525 on: July 23, 2017, 08:57:56 PM »
I have to say I had an issue with this movie's MJ. Mary Jane is the life of the party, or at least that's how she was written in the classic comics. She was upbeat, positive, and outgoing-- a good reason why many people liked her better than Gwen. Homecoming's MJ was the opposite. Her defining personality trait was being critical of her friends/surroundings. If this was how she was written in the ol' Stan Lee/John Romita comics, I bet Gwen would be alive today.
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Offline stumpy

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #526 on: July 24, 2017, 06:02:38 AM »
Interesting point, Ouflah. My on-again-off-again reading of the Spider-Man comics left me with a similar impression that MJ was sort of a popular kid, which isn't what we saw in this movie.

However, another aspect of MJ that showed up in comics was that she had other troubles in her life that she hid from most people at school. And, there is plenty of room for that part of her backstory to develop with this movie's MJ. Hiding something with popularity can make a character interesting, but so can hiding something with standoffish behavior. Obviously, we didn't see any hidden aspects of the new version yet, because we didn't learn much about her at all. But, it would easily fit with what we have seen if they decide to explore it.

Also, I think a quirky/nerdy MJ fits well with the backdrop of a science magnet high school. And, keeping in mind that Peter is basically a genius, I'd sort of have an easier time believing something between him and an MJ who could keep up than at least one earlier movie MJ, who was, well, not-so-brainy.

And, to be honest, while I wasn't overwhelmed by this movie, I was actually glad that it wasn't another Peter-and-his-awkward-dating showcase. Yes, I understand that that is part of the teen experience and there was definitely some of it in SM:H. But, it's not the most interesting part of Peter's story and, after the previous several movies carpet bombing us with that, I am happy for a break.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 06:04:16 AM by stumpy »
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #527 on: July 24, 2017, 10:29:18 PM »
Another thing to remember is, this is MJ specifically as a freshman in High School. Remember, the MJ from the classic comics? She's from Peter's college years. A LOT can happen from high school to where we see her in SM:H. And as stumpy pointed out, there's layers to her attitude in college as well: we know that a lot of her "party girl" attitude was a pose to deflect attention from how broken her home life was, which is part of why she gravitated towards both Harry and Peter.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Marvel Movies
« Reply #528 on: August 24, 2017, 05:34:37 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ILCTco-9vo&index=1&list=WL
An interesting commentary on the current state of Spider-Man.With a good deal of focus on Homecoming.
No,really,where is Uncle Ben in this movie?There is never any indication that Peter and aunt May have financial problems either.
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