Marvel Movies

Started by JeyNyce, October 28, 2014, 06:48:28 PM

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Shogunn2517

#570
Okay, Black Panther's coming out next week and we've been getting more and more tidbits about the movie over the last few months.  I just saw something that gave extended clip and dialogue that provided a pretty key plot point of the movie that I don't think has been done before.  Alas, I'm not the biggest BP fan and don't know if this is something that's been done in the comics.... with him.

Spoiler
I'm sure those who've been watching the trailers and clips have noticed that both Killmonger and T'Challa will have similar suits, seemingly of some sort of nano-technology.  Whatever it is, I watched the scene we've seen in trailers and Lexus' commercials at night with the Black Panther (seemingly) chasing Klaue.  Well after he changed into his suit(literally on the fly) and jumped on the roof of the car, Shuri noted that he's taking fire and charging is suit up with kenetic energy from being struck repeatedly by bullets.  Now, I figured that his suit was some type of vibranium mesh, which, like Captain America's shield, absorbs kenetic energy and disperses it which allows it to protect him from harm.  But the way she specifically described it, and visibly looking at the suit react(turn purple) when being struck with bullets, I got the idea that this suit is something new and different giving Black Panther Kenetic energy absorption and more specifically energy projection powers.  Maybe not translated by a beam, but projection in regards of added strength or ability.  Much like Sebastian Shaw(and to a lesser extent DC/Dakotaverse's Rocket(ie the girl in my pic over yonder)).

Is this new to Black Panther or something they've done in the comics before?

catwhowalksbyhimself

Spoiler

According to wikipedia he does have that ability, but only with magic.  He can absorb magic and gain strength from it.  It's apparently a more recent thing.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

detourne_me

So I just saw the movie today.  I definitely recommend it! Here are my spoiler free thoughts, but in a spoiler box (then inside another spoiler box will be my spoilers, too).
Spoiler
So it's a bit different from a normal Marvel movie, a lot more self-contained, and not as humorous. The motives of the villain made a lot of sense, and it wasn't about giant blue lasers from space, so that was good.Stan Lee has a great cameo, but that's to be expected.  Now for some spoilers:
Spoiler
Killmonger was such a great villain, and it really made sense why he wanted to take out Black Panther.
I love their technology.  it is a bit different from normal technology,  it's cool how it's kind of nanotechnology, but also magnetic with iron filaments...kinda. I guess vibranium reacts differently with sound and magnetic fields.
  using those invisible fields the Wakandan tech does a lot of interesting stuff.
At first I wasn't sure I'd like Shuri, her humor seemed a bit forced in the beginning, but by the end I thought she was really well-cast and a great fit for the movie.
I'm always happy to see Korea in a mainstream movie, too. so that was a nice bonus!
Post Credit spoiler!
Spoiler
Bucky seems to be well on the path to rehabilitation!

HarryTrotter

In the comic (at least things I read),he has Batman-esque kevlar costume.And in the realm of fiction kevlar=magical force field.So there is that. :)
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

HarryTrotter

This will trigger some people but I cant help but notice...there is a lot of hype about Black Panther being the FIRST movie about a black superhero.Did Marvel forgot they mad 3 Blade movies,almost 20 years ago?
Only one was good,but thats neither here nor there.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

I have heard that pointed out elsewhere, actually. I wonder if it's supposed to be the first African superhero as opposed to African American. Even if you ignored Blade, there's also Catwoman (since it starred Halle Berry), Spawn (since Al Simmons was a black man before he became Spawn) and some other more obscure films such as Meteor Man and Blank Man (though both of those were comedies).

In any case, did you mean Blade 1 or Blade 2?
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Deaths Jester

Or the fact that Comet Man and Steel happened before then...

Or that Shaft (perhaps the first black "superhero" on screen) came even beforehand...
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

Panther_Gunn

Quote from: Deaths Jester on February 17, 2018, 12:48:24 AM
Or the fact that Comet Man and Steel happened before then...

Or that Shaft (perhaps the first black "superhero" on screen) came even beforehand...

I think we're *all* trying to forget that Steel happened.....   :ooh
The Best There Is At What I Do......when I have the time.

Deaths Jester

The other was Meteor Man...not Comet Man, my mistake.
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

Shogunn2517

My thoughts:

First of all, three of the four of my most favorite things are social politics, boxing and comics and that's pretty much Ryan Coogler's entire film resume.  Now to be perfectly honest, I was pretty underwhelmed by his first few movies.  Fruitvale Station was okay, but it just seem really weirdly cut.  Creed was extra long and all over the place and I really wish it just did what Rocky did and "paint-by-the-numbers" but it didn't.  So I didn't have high expectations for him directing BP.  And as I suspected, I had some of the same problems here too.  Although I enjoyed every minute, it was still pretty long.  Some parts seemed a little too convenient.

That said, I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.  Killmonger was a great villain.  So was Klaue.  The Dora Milaje were awesome.  Shuri was ridiculously adorable!  And T'Challa of course was cast well and done right.  Visually, the movie was stunning.  The underlying message was pretty meaningful and I really dug it.  And from my side of the fence, you can see where his motivations are.  There are some plotholes that bug me, and like I said, there are parts that I definitely would have trimmed, but definitely worth to watch, whether your a fan of the genre or not, it holds up and is entertaining.

Now some of the spoiler stuff:

Spoiler
Overall I think I counted about three references to other Marvel properties.  One, the main one is T'Chaka's death, which they also included in flashbacks.  The next two were slightly related, Shuri's comment about "another broken white guy" where she was referencing Bucky who appeared at the end(I was wondering why he didn't show up at the end fight).  I say all that to say I think they particularly wanted to not use any connection or strong connections to the MCU so it could be understood in its own context and it's fine for that.  I, of course, would have appreciated a few more connections to the full universe.  An Infinity Gem or N'Jobu planning to rob Pym Industries at the beginning or at least a cameo from an Avenger.  But it's what it is.  Now, I kinda expect it in the sequel.  Also think they did a pretty good job explaining things.  History of Wakanda.  The different tribes.  Backstory with N'Jobu and T'Chaka.  Good job explaining Black Panther's powers, which they completely didn't do in Civil War.  The ending fight with T'Challa/Killmonger I wish could have been done more naturally and less CGI.  Two guys wearing black in a dark underground place fully animated made it hard to track.  But it did go off better than I expected.

As far as the plot hole goes and it's really starting to bother me but... Why is Killmonger dead?  I mean, he drunk from the heart-shaped herb that T'Challa did.  T'Challa's life-threatening wounds healed.  Why didn't Killmonger's?

Moreover, I do have to say, like with most of Marvel's movies there's comes the "evil-twin" version of villains that they keep going with.  Killmonger was just a evil Black Panther.  Loki/Thor Captain America/Red Skull/Winter Soldier, Hulk/Abomination, Iron Man/Iron Monger.  Although, the story here is fairly "age-old" and a little "Lion King"-ish.  Not that this is a bad thing, it's a storyline you can't hardly go wrong with.  At least Killmonger was compelling as a villain.  The whole dynamic of keeping Wakanda closed vs opening up to the world vs using it against the world was a pretty interesting take.

Again, it was an overall enjoyable film.  Really hope people don't elect to skip out on this one for whatever reason... particularly since... it's reasonable to want to watch this movie.  As a fan or not.

catwhowalksbyhimself

So some of the numbers are in.  Sounds like it's now the 6th best movie for the opening 3 days of all time, and best pre-summer blockbuster period.  It's currently above Civil War and for four days will pass Age of Ultron.  To say it's a major success is putting it mildly.  It looks like some of the reviews put it as the second best of the Marvel films after Winter Soldier, although of course every individual will have very different opinions regarding that.

Still the people behind this film all deserve a huge congratulations.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

crimsonquill

#581
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on February 17, 2018, 06:19:13 AM
Spoiler

As far as the plot hole goes and it's really starting to bother me but... Why is Killmonger dead?  I mean, he drunk from the heart-shaped herb that T'Challa did.  T'Challa's life-threatening wounds healed.  Why didn't Killmonger's?

Spoiler
Before they have their Challenge for King they must take the heart-shaped herb to remove their powers so it's a balanced fair fight. Course T'Challa's sister took the last remaining herb from the garden before Killmonger burned it all. T'Challa's mom used that last herb to restore his Black Panther abilities but because of Killmonger's hunger to keep what had there was no more herbs left to heal being gutted during the final battle. The herb gives strength, endurance, speed, agility, and a connection to the elder Black Panthers but it's not like Wolverine's super regeneration power which is on all the time.. It just kickstarts that body's own healing ability for a short period. T'Challa was just badly scratched up, bruised as heck, and knocked out before he was thrown over the cliff and then nearly frozen when he was found. I'm sure there are seeds to grow more herbs to replenish the garden but they would take awhile to grow and Killmonger refused to allow the family he hated to show pity on him to restore him using Wakandan technology.
"He said let there be light... CLICK! It was a lightbulb. And It was good."

BWPS

#582
No real spoilers, but just in case

Spoiler

The movie was amazing. I'm no film buff but the actors probably gave the best performances of any superhero movie ever made. Which is good, because it let everyone fit with Michael B Jordan being one of the best actors of all time in the best "villain" role of all time.

I know this isn't the music forum, but the Kendrick and pals soundtrack is so phenomenal. If you're into going hard af hip hop, you must listen. If not, it might get you into it. I have been playing it non-stop.

Man, what a great time to be alive.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

GhostMachine

I saw Black Panther yesterday, and it's definitely in my top 5 of MCU movies. But, I have two issues:

Spoiler
Didn't like that they turned his sister into T'Challa's version of James Bond's Q, and possibly made her smarter than Tony Smark.

And can they please stop doing movies where the hero takes on their evil equivalent? We already had that with Captain America (twice, with Red Skull and with Winter Soldier), Iron Man, Ant-Man, and the Hulk.

stumpy

We saw this on opening day and really enjoyed it. I'd say it's a top Marvel film for me. And, while not a laugh-a-minute kind of movie, I thought it had plenty of light moments that left me grinning.

I agree with others that it was long. But, for me, at least, it never really dragged.

Slight spoiler:
Spoiler
The end of the movie, where the decision is made to open up Wakanda substantially and make much of its vibranium-based advanced technology available to the world, was... interesting. For sure, many aspects of the tech are flat-out world-changing. Imagine being able to heal grievous injuries (physical and psychological), or the implications for the energy economy and transportation industry of their rail system and flying vehicles. And, I can see why one would feel morally obligated to spread the benefits of such tech around.

But, with all of that comes the cost. There is no way not to have new weapons flooding the world market. The idea that the use of the technology for such purposes could be effectively controlled or regulated is easily as much a fantasy as Thor's unliftable hammer. I am not saying that they shouldn't have opened up to the world. In fact, the idea that such a high-tech enclave exists at all and only Wakandans know about it is a stretch. But, it does make me wonder how realistic Marvel plans to be in its treatment the overall impact of that kind of technology.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

detourne_me

Stumpy, regarding your point...
Spoiler
i think the soul gem is what gives vibranium its power, so when Thanos comes in Infinity War, something will happen to subdue to world-breaking properties of the magical metal.

HarryTrotter

More time has been devoted to discussing politics of the movie then the movie (kudos to everyone who worked in sh*tholegate into their reviews) and I have to say,its obvious that the politics came before entertaiment on the priority list.And everyone found something to prop up their own narratives.Kinda like with Hunger Games,I guess.
All in all,its a decent enough movie,but not the greatest superhero movie or a landmark achivment it was hyped up to be.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Quote from: HarryTrotter on February 23, 2018, 07:56:33 PM
More time has been devoted to discussing politics of the movie then the movie (kudos to everyone who worked in sh*tholegate into their reviews) and I have to say,its obvious that the politics came before entertaiment on the priority list.And everyone found something to prop up their own narratives.Kinda like with Hunger Games,I guess.
All in all,its a decent enough movie,but not the greatest superhero movie or a landmark achivment it was hyped up to be.

sh*tholegate... gotcha.  I see where you're going...

But I think a lot of the politics were unavoidable, particular from a certain point of view.  Not much contemporary, but the big debate in many of my FB groups is the opposing schools of thought between T'Challa and Killmonger had with black folks and ethnic Africans, taking on a similar theme that Magneto and Professor X have with mutants.  It's a sensible political argument.  Nothing obtrusive, but completely story driven.  But there were a number of narratives that could be played upon.  One of which is it's cultural significance.  I think this movie had an deeper meaning to some just as Wonder Woman did last year.  While each movie were completely entertaining, it was important to see the portrayals that we did.  Not just important for those who were represented, but important for those who don't see or think of seeing these roles filled.

HarryTrotter

Im not going anywhere,New York Times actually worked in that in their review.Im not kidding.
Yeah,about Killmonger,hes not really Magneto,hes more...Hitler.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#589
There's also a T-shirt being sold somewhere with a slogan on the front referencing that. I would assume, not an official Marvel product.

Now as for the movie itself, I'd been meaning to say this:

QuoteFirst of all, three of the four of my most favorite things are social politics, boxing and comics and that's pretty much Ryan Coogler's entire film resume.  Now to be perfectly honest, I was pretty underwhelmed by his first few movies.  Fruitvale Station was okay, but it just seem really weirdly cut.  Creed was extra long and all over the place and I really wish it just did what Rocky did and "paint-by-the-numbers" but it didn't.  So I didn't have high expectations for him directing BP.  And as I suspected, I had some of the same problems here too.  Although I enjoyed every minute, it was still pretty long.  Some parts seemed a little too convenient.

I actually didn't even know he worked on all three of those movies. I guess I didn't really look into who made Creed or Black Panther (though it fits that they all have Micheal B. Jordan).  I myself really enjoyed Creed so it's entirely possible I'll like this more than you did. I can't say for sure until I watch the flick.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

catwhowalksbyhimself

In somewhat related news, pet shelters are starting to report that instead of being picked last as normal, black cats are actually being picked first(and named after characters from the movies) and cat adoptions in general are up since the movie came out.  This was not something that anyone was expecting, but considering that it normally very difficult to get someone to adopt a black cat, it's been seen a good thing.  As you may notice from my avatar, I am very much in favor of dark furred felines.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Silver Shocker

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

cmdrkoenig67

#592
Quote from: detourne_me on February 22, 2018, 11:23:36 AM
Stumpy, regarding your point...
Spoiler
i think the soul gem is what gives vibranium its power, so when Thanos comes in Infinity War, something will happen to subdue to world-breaking properties of the magical metal.

Spoiler
I do have a feeling the stone is there and I agree...Thanos taking it, will probably depower the Vibrainum to a degree (I don't think it will completely depower the miracle metal, though).

BTW, my sister took me to see BP and I loved it...One of the best Marvel movies made, IMHO.

Dana

Shogunn2517

#593
BTW, there's a pretty MAJOR rumor that has started going around and with the rumors we've been hearing preceding it, it could be pretty meaning for for Avengers: Infinity War and even for ALL of Phase 4 of the Marvel Cinematic Universe thereafter. 

Again, this is a major spoiler so be warned about continued reading....

Spoiler
Okay, you've been warned.  But keep in mind Phase 4 will be kicked off with Captain Marvel and also keep in mind Sylvester Stallone and Ving Rhymes' cameo in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 was probably no accident...  Last chance...

Spoiler
Well, there have been rumors where the MCU will take Phase 4, and rumor has it that they're looking to unload many of their higher priced contracts. So it's likely they'll not want stars like Gwyneth Paltrow, Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Jeremy Renner and perhaps Robert Downy Jr. to be brought back.  So word has it that they'll want to shift to, what Disney CEO, Bob Iger described as "worlds that are completely separate, geographically or in time", which would suggest cosmic-oriented characters and storylines.  Additionally, it's been long rumored that Peter Dinklage has a role in Infinity War.  He's listed on several sites and even Wikipedia has him listed but no role next to his name.  It's been speculated that he's playing Pip the Troll, MODOK or Uatu, the Watcher.  Lately it's been thought he's playing a dwarf that helps Thor forge Stormbreaker.  But if he's playing any of those characters, why wouldn't it be listed?  They've listed other newer characters?  Anyway, it has been confirmed with the latest trailer and movie poster released that he is INDEED part of the cast, but again, no role has been confirmed.  Probably because he's playing a character that will spoil the untitled Avengers 4 movie...

Because today(yesterday), Metacritic has put out a link to the Infinity War cast... If you look about midway down the second listing for the cast, there's an actor who has very few film credits and has been in no MCU movies named Curt Clendenin... http://www.metacritic.com/movie/avengers-infinity-war/details  And the character they have listed?
(One more time...)

Spoiler
The Silver Surfer!

Now, the reason I went through all that above is to illustrate that while Curt Clendenin has no real film credits to his name, it's very possible he could be doing the motion capturing of the character.  And another actor who does have billing on the actual poster, who does have a pretty distinctive voice and does not have a role attached to his name could be the voice for the Silver Surfer, which would be Peter Dinklage.

But to take a step further, the fact that Marvel is not only being tight-lipped about Peter Dinklage's role and whether or not the Silver Surfer is indeed featured in the movie, as well as the title of the 3rd Avengers' sequel, it's very possible that the rumors of using cosmic characters could be fully realized in Avengers 4... where(and this is my theory) Thanos will be stopped by the combined efforts of the Avengers and the Silver Surfer who has found Earth for Galactus, who will be the featured villain for Avengers 4: Coming of Galactus... Return of Galactus... Age of Galactus... the Galactus Imperative.  Whatever.  Something with Galactus in the title, which would spoil the entire story.

Of course this all hinges on one minor detail... the Fox/Disney deal.  And whether it has been finalized timely enough for the characters to be included.  However, Fox could have had a similar deal Sony had for Spider-Man.  Besides, it was reported a while back that Marvel did lend the Hellfire Club and Legion to Fox and perhaps there's a quid pro quo.  But as far as I can tell, it's all adding up.  It could be THE reason why we haven't received the Avengers 4 title yet, nor why Dinklage's role hasn't been revealed and explain the original Guardians of the Galaxy's cameo and make sense of Iger's "separate worlds" comment.

Again, keep in mind that last part is a lot of my own theory based on what could VERY POSSIBLY be a mistake or some sort of uninformed writer from Metacritic.  But if Metacritic did unveil something they shouldn't have and this is indeed true, they've might have given a tell for what's to come for Phase 4.  But I dunno.  I've looked online for someone to have put 2 and 2 together like I have and no one has, so I could be really, really wrong... or really, really right.  We'll see.

Silver Shocker

I did hear that rumor, which would be pretty wild if it were true.

Spoiler
If so, hopefully the actor in question will do a better job than the last time they were tasked with a character from that particular genre setting...  :cool: Personally I still Dinklage would have been best suited playing Pip the Troll, because 1. if not, what was that red dyed hair for? and 2. Come on, who else is gonna play Pip? He's a little person, he's got the messy hair, and he's got the silver tongue necessary to play the character. And yeah, they could just CGI Pip. Speaking of which...

There's also a speculation that he's doing the voice of Black Order member Dwarf Star, since the actors for the other members are apparently already confirmed, which....yeah, I could belief that, but I also think it would be a waste of his talents, (then again, so was his role in Destiny, but the video game industry likes being able to tout Hollywood talent as a feature in their games) Plus, Malekith wasn't a good use of Christopher Eccelston's charisma either.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Shogunn2517

Yeah, there's that...  But if that were the case, why wouldn't they just say?

Spoiler
Again, they've listed other members of the Black Order in the cast.  And yeah, I suppose newer characters like Pip or MODOK or Dwarf Star would be spoiler-ish as for characters that haven't previously been in an MCU film, which is true.  But just my opinion, I doubt it's spoiler enough for them to specifically go out their way to NOT include it in the credits UNLESS it's going to spoil the plot of the movie(and in my opinion, A4).  Pip the Troll wouldn't spoil the movie so I'd think they'd be comfortable with listing that with 5 weeks to go.  But if he is indeed who I think he is, THAT would be something they'd want to keep under wraps.

But like I said, BECAUSE they flat out refuse to confirm it(maybe for good reason) it all could be speculation and a glaring mistake.  But at the same time, they're not denying it either.

Shogunn2517

Also it should also be mentioned that back in Civil War, Spider-Man was not only left out of the first trailer he was erased out of much of where he would have been in the actual movie in both trailers.  Until the very end.  Marvel kept his inclusion equally tight-lipped.  Of course he didn't change the direction of the movie or the MCU at all, but it does show a history of them being covert with certain characters.

Silver Shocker

Did Marvel officially announced the cameos such as the ones in Guardians of the Galaxy 2? Because if not, Pip could just be a post-credits gag or something. Marvel, in my experience, likes to keep the post-credit scene cameos a surprise even when they're just for a gag.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

stumpy

Regarding this Dinklage speculation and the thematic tie to why Spidey wasn't in the early Civil War trailers... It's been noted on several fan sites that Marvel often does a pretty good job of keeping big movie reveals under wraps until release, particularly in comparison to DC. (I mean, sure, we all knew that Superman was coming back. But, at least have enough respect for suspense to not just show a nominally dead character as alive in the bleeping trailer!) Presumably, that's what happened with Spidey in CW and maybe that's the reason for the silence about Dinklage's role.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

HarryTrotter

Deadpool 2 is basicly Terminator (2).Which isnt so bad.
Cable seems spot on,everyone else...not so much.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer