Marvel Movies

Started by JeyNyce, October 28, 2014, 06:48:28 PM

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catwhowalksbyhimself

In other news, Black Panther just beat Avengers as the highest grossing superhero film of all time!
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

HarryTrotter

''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Tomato

I mean, I feel like the placement on this one was deliberate, and it's not like the last teaser where there was NOTHING Venom related in the Venom trailer.

That said, PLEASE tell me the pronunciation of "sym-bye-oat" is just the british version or something... because it would be assenine if they truly did fruit up pronouncing "symbiote" in the GD Venom movie.

BentonGrey

#603
Posted without comment:
http://textsfromsuperheroes.com/post/173308521566/symbiote

Also, what the heck is up with Hardy's Jerry Lewis-esq delivery of his lines?  Who thought that was a good idea?
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Tomato

So I will give credit where it's due: the cgi for Venom looks good. It's got a nice, shiny, wet look that a certain... Other version did not. It looks like venom. Even the awkward bits (that bike scene is... Eh) are more coreography based then with the symbiote itself.

I'm sorry, but I STILL remember an early sm3 trailer which had Tobey awkwardly tearing off the rubber black suit... And it NEVER looked right to me. So it's worth noting that this model looks so much better. I just hope Hardy let's them USE it.

Still, the story side has me a bit nervous... The setup in the trailer feels like it could work with the villains being the third tier symbiotes from separation anxiety (Scream being mainstream would be cool) but I know the studio would REALLY be pushing for Carnage... And I just don't seem him fitting this film unless some nonsense happens. Like, the CEO becomes Carnage... Disregarding the fact that he'd be Carnage in name (and appearance) only.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not exactly Carnage's biggest fan (eff everything to do with red goblin. It's so dumb) but if you're gonna play that card, it better be full on mass murdering Cletus Cassidy Carnage. Otherwise, save it for another film. You've got enough going on.

Shogunn2517

Okay, turning to page to Infinity War, which I saw last night... First the non-spoiler thoughts:

Wasn't quite what I was expecting.  It was fun to see ALL these characters come together.  They weaved the storylines together as seemlessly as they did with the original Avengers blending the newer franchises(Black Panther, GOTG, Spider-Man) in.  The action scenes, I was originally told was fully of shaky cam CGI and I disagree.  They were fast-paced and a lot going on, but you can tell they stepped it up a level.  Naturally the movie had such an epic scale I jokingly told my friend they can't release this movie on DVD because it should only be seen on a big screen.

But unfortunately, the parts that drug it for me was some of the slower parts.  I don't know if it was because it was late, but it was painfully slow in spots and the main thing that bugged me was the ending.... that ending thou...

Spoiler
Half the Marvel Universe is dead.  Yeah.  Agents of SHIELD, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, Daredevil, Ant-Man(which is coming out in a few months) meh.  It's like they set a stage for them to have to deal with or not care that those other properties have to deal with.  As if this is really the end though.  The cliffhanger is a bit anti-climatic when there's no secret that there will be a Guardians of the Galaxy 3, Spider-Man 2, Black Panther 2.  So all the characters we saw "die", half of them are literally contracted to come back.

So when Avengers 4 comes out, there's little doubt that someone will ultimately wrestle the Gauntlet from Thanos(my money's on Stark or Marvel(actually I think she's a safer bet)) and undo everything he did.  But that's the thing that bugged me.  When we were first introduced to Infinity War, we were told there were two parts to it.  But then we were specifically told that they aren't doing that, and Infinity War would be it's own movie.  I even thought I read that Thanos wouldn't necessarily be the villain in the next Avengers movie, which is why they split the two film.  But after this, I'm curious why go through the effort?  When it's a tad obvious the next Avengers WILL be wrapping up the storyline from Avengers 3, virtually one 5 hour movie.

But more than that, as a movie, I didn't get what I was looking for.  I get having cliffhangers.  I get having a "to be continued..." but even still there's SOME sort of resolution typically.  Some victory of some sort or closure to THAT particular story.  There wasn't that here.  Thanos' goal was to get all the Infinity Stones and he got them.  The end.  Don't want to sound old fashion but...  it just wasn't as fulfilling as I'd hoped.

Take it for what you will.  Just my thoughts.

Deaths Jester

...one name concerning who "may" take the gauntlet: Adam Warlock...just tossing out that potential...
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

detourne_me

Just saw Infinity War with a bunch of friends this afternoon. We all loved it. Such a great cast that all hadd amazing chemistry together. Especially between the Chris's.
I laughed so often, and will probably be quoting from the movie for a long time to come.
Also something really unusual happened to us. Since we live in Korea, usually foreigners like me will laugh at references or sayings before Koreans get it(if they understand the humor at all) but in this movie there were a few instances where they were reading the subtitles faster than the actor saying the lines, and we couldnt even hear the line because the audience was laughing so hard. Im not even mad about it, actually pretty happy that so many people enjoyed the movie.

BentonGrey

It's sounding pretty great!  We're going to see it tomorrow, and I'm quite excited!  I may have to play some Marvel Adventures tonight to celebrate.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

spydermann93

Holy COW! What an AMAZING movie! 10/10 for me!

SPOILERS
Spoiler
I am SO happy that they had Thanos win in the end! It was all that I was hoping for and they did it! Sure, it will be reversed in a future movie, but for now, I am very happy with it. Thanos was stellar in the movie! I love how they handled him, in every regard. His power, his mental strength, his character, everything! I am so happy that he didn't turn into another one-note, forget-me-in-a-minute Marvel villain.

detourne_me

Spyder,
Spoiler
I agree completely!  Thanos wasn't really inherently evil. my friends afterwards were saying how he could even be right.  Apparently Gamora's homeworld is thriving now, where Titan is a desolate wasteland because they didn't listen to Thanos' ideas. And, since it is randomly chosen who lives and who dies, it is probably as fair as possible for everyone involved in dying/surviving.

Silver Shocker

#611
So I saw it, really enjoyed it. Not much to say other than it's a lot of fun, all the different personalities playing off each other was very entertaining, Thanos was really damn good,. James Gunn oversaw the Guardians scenes and it shows because the humor is on point. Mantis is still adorable, she and Drax are still adorable together, and Batista still has great comedic chops as Drax. And I have issues with the ending. I'm kinda with agreement with Shogunn about it. More in the spoilers:

Spoiler
Highlights:
-Tony's conversation with Pepper about having a baby seemed to be based on a cut line from Civil War. At one point in the script Tony was going to say he and Pepper aren't talking because he missed a Lamaze class. Now, Tony being Tony, he may have been joking, but it made people wonder if Pepper was pregnant. That little bit of dialogue in this movie seemed to poking fun at and/or clarifying for fans (I'm not sure/don't remember what the Civil War/Homecoming/IW timeline would be so no idea if Pepper would have been showing) In any case, I appreciated it.
-I really enjoyed seeing Wanda and Vision as a couple. So great to see those characters develop over so few movies and I like them more with each appearance.
-Red Skull Cameo! I was chomping at the bit wondering who the guy in the robes was, thinking in the back of my head "he kinda sounds like Hugo Weaving" without drawing the connection, and then it closed in on his face I literally gasped. So cool! Though Hugo Weaving didn't actually do the voice, too bad.
-[EDIT] Oh dang! I forgot about Peter Dinklage! We finally get to see who he's playing...and it's....some dwarven blacksmith who I've never heard of. So we have a dwarf....playing a dwarf....and he's actually huge! And all joking aside, The Dink was awesome in it. He was all shouty and scowly, and definitely was not phoning it in Destiny Style. Though the movie did in fact feature a wizard on the moon....see because Titan is the moon of Saturn.
-They rehashed the Spider-Man "old movie" joke like 4 or 5 times. Don't get me wrong, I thought they were funny, including a particularly inspired one involving Mantis, but upon reflection, I've never known Spidey to tell the same joke twice (I've heard it said that outside of Under the Red Hood, neither does the Joker. Food for thought).
-I should have known Thor would get a replacement cyborg eye from the Guardians just so Hensworth wouldn't have to wear that eyepatch, though the accompanying joke? So, SO gross.
-Rocket wants to steal Bucky's metal arm. That is awesome. Somebody needs to buy whoever came up with that gag (I'd wager James Gunn) a cold one.
-So, um, did Korg, Miek and the others on board the Grandmaster's ship die off screen in the opening minutes of the movie? Because while I didn't really care for this version of Korg and Miek, I'd at least like to know if they died.

-I'm just going to say it: I hate the ending. Hate hate hate hate hate. And tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow. Yes, I know it's a cliffhanger. Yes I know every last one of those characters will come back except maybe Heimdall, Loki, Gamora, Vision, Collector and whoever died on board the Grandmaster's ship, and whoever I forgot. And yes I know Avengers 4 is coming much sooner than usual.

Doesn't matter. I still don't like it. The first 98% of the movie was great. Lots of action, great banter and humor, surprisingly few cheap exploitative deaths. I was actually thinking while Thanos was throwing aside a bunch of characters "If Kyle and Yost wrote this, ALL of these guys would be dead.". And that last 2% or so of the movie had to go and sour the whole thing for me. We might not get to see ANY of those characters again until May next year, while in the meantime we're getting a filler installment (Ant-Man and the Wasp) and a movie-length flashback/origin film (Captain Marvel). And I loved Ant-Man. The trailer for the new one (which noone on here seemed to talk about) was great, much better than the original teaser trailer for Ant-Man 1. I'm a fan of Carol Danvers and I was looking forward to a Captain Marvel film. Now, like Shogunn, I'm soured on them. I'll still see Ant-Man and the Wasp, and I may very well see CM in theaters, but if neither of them have post-credits scenes hinting at Avengers 4, that means we have to wait through almost a whole year and 2 separate films to find out what happens next. Nevermind the various tv shows.

And if I can get real for a sec, real life can get damn depressing at times. Escapist fiction is supposed to give you a feel good experience where you leave the theater with a smile on your face, and a lot of us could probably use that these days.  BT-dubs, it's also not supposed to make you nauseous, so knock it off with the shaky cam already, Russos!

When I saw Thanos walking off into his paradise I thought to myself "Don't you dare cut to the credits" and then it happened and I thought some variation of "Are you $%^&ing kidding me?!", a common utterance from viewers of the infamous Walking Dead S6 cliffhanger (I'ma bring that up again in a bit). But ok, of course I knew there was a post credits scene. 1 post credit scene; I knew in advance there was only 1, even though most MCU films have at least 2. So I waited patiently, along with many other, upset viewers, many of them children, waiting for hope. "Ok" I thought. "One post credits-scene. This better be the best damn post credits scene ever (for the record, the best post-credit scene, is of course, the Cap PSA post credit scene). We've heard rumblings of Silver Surfer, but no, it's gotta be better than that. We need to see the characters Thanos killed alive, or in Battleworld, or some brief glimpse of where the story's going to go next. It's gotta be time travelling Young Avengers. We know an older Cassie Lang is appearing in Avengers 4, and Tony and Pepper were talking about a kid, that could be Iron lad in this version. It's gotta be something good. "

It was Nick Fury, saying MFer, (HA HA, never heard that joke before), Maria Hill, and Captain Marvel's logo, which a good chunk of the audience won't even recognize.

At that point my head rolled back and I mouthed out "OH COME ON!". Captain Marvel? Are you cereal? We already knew Captain Marvel was coming. It's not even the next movie in sequence, that's Ant-Man and the Wasp! And like I said, Captain Marvel is a bloody prequel! And I expect Ant-Man and the Wasp WILL take place prior to the end of AIW. They're not going to put THIS in the margins of a feel-good Paul Rudd action comedy. The post credit scene will probably be one or more of the Ant-Man characters being wiped out.

I really hope we're getting an Avengers 4 trailer this upcoming week, or sometime in the next few months, because this is absurd.

But ok, I'll play: it's a cliffhanger. Cliffhangers are old hat, comics are full of them. Hell, Avengers No Surrender pulled this kind of cliffhanger no less than five times. You know what the difference is? Other than a better version of Quicksilver? No Surrender came out every single week. The infamous Walking Dead cliffhanger (which, for the record, I very much enjoyed, though I don't think they should have done it the way they did) only made you wait until October. And there was a trailer before that. Fear the Walking Dead is currently in the process of resolving a comparable cliffhanger.  The infamous cliffhanger in One Piece (similar to this one) only made fans wait one chapter in the manga, and two measly filler episodes in the anime. And that had the good graces to tell you what happens next ahead of time and tease the upcoming storylines in the opening credits. The original Infinity Gauntlet? It came out every month, didn't it? And while the New Star Wars movies put out Rogue One and Solo between numbered installments, no Star Wars movie had a cliffhanger like this. Nor did Harry Potter or other similar YA adaptations, nor did Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit put out sidestories between installments.  And when the Teen Titans cartoon and the really quite good Squadron Supreme arc of the Avengers Assemble cartoon did similar cliffhangers, they at least ended their respective episodes on triumphant notes by showing the heroes were already planning their counterattack (and no, I do not consider an emoji for a character we've never met before to be that)

Oh, and before I forget, where the bloody hell was Hawkeye? After all that hullabuloo about "Why isn't Hawkeye in the trailer?" and "There's a good reason Hawkeye's not in the trailer" and "don't worry guys, Hawkeye's in Avengers". He's not even in the damn movie! And the nonchalant explanation we get is even more insulting! He turned himself in and is in house arrest? Then why not just say ahead of time he's not in the movie? It's not a surprise, it's not a reveal, it's not a big moment, heck we already knew Scott was under house arrest from the Ant-Man trailer. And I'm sorry, I don't like seeing my heroes turn coward. I can understand Scott, but not Clint. Especially since it goes completely against Hawkeye's character arc in the last movie he was in, where he decided he needed to do something, even if it put his safe family life at risk. So, yeah, not cool, Clint. You shoulda just did Mission Impossible instead.

So yeah, soured. And a little triggered, if I'm honest. #ItsOktoHateTheEnding
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Shogunn2517

Wow. Silver Shocker... that was a Mouth. Full.  I think you about covered all your bases bruh. Lol. You said more than I did. More than I wanted but sheesh. Thanks for saying it and giving me cover.

Let me add some color:
Spoiler

Yes, were not the only ones who feel the way we do.  I was trying to explain to a friend, it's like watching the Avengers and getting to the part where Loki kills Coulson and chucks Thor from the Helicarrrier and the credits roll after that.  Of course I'm going to be like "What the fuzz? Where's the rest of the movie?"  Don't get me wrong, I liked a lot of what I saw but if you're going to produce a movie some of us would appreciate a resolution. Like a beginning, middle and end. An end with a protagonist finding closure and I didn't get that.

Again, I get cliffhangers.  A cliffhanger like revealing Thanos sent the Chitauri or the Winter Soldier is still alive.  But even in those cases the Avengers stopped Loki and Captain America stopped Hydra's plot.  There was closure. Even when you take it to other properties like with Star Wars, where many are comparing this to Empire Strikes Back. Yes, our heroes took Ls across the board but they got away.  The whole movie was the Empire chasing them down and they got away.  And even that can't be viewed in a vacuum.  It's the 2nd part of a 3 part series, IE the 2nd act.  This wasn't that. They specifically said this isn't Infinity War "Part 1", it's it's own separate story and there's no way I can judge this by itself. I feel there's more to the story.  Actually I don't feel.  Chadwick Bozeman, Chris Pratt and Tom Holland have sequels to make so I know they're not dead and thus I know the story's incomplete.  Like what's the point of doing a pump fake when the defense know you're not going to throw it.

And BTW this too is a big part of it:
Spoiler

And if I can get real for a sec, real life can get damn depressing at times. Escapist fiction is supposed to give you a feel good experience where you leave the theater with a smile on your face, and a lot of us could probably use that these days.

THANK YOU.

I know it's small and may seem insignificant and inconsequential but we watch these for escapism and to take a break from real life that can be hell of depressing.  Bad guys win in real life.  Trust me I work in politics.  I don't want that in fantasy.  I'm taking a break from that for a reason. Not saying Thanos has to die in 2 hours, but still...  just was looking for more.

Trust me there's a lot to like but I'm positive I'll like the whole thing more after Avengers 4.

HarryTrotter

On a somewhat related note,so far Captain Marvel promises to be the most generic thing ever.
Also,I saw several articles along the line of "trend for female lead superhero movies to be set in the past", which is pretty funny considering we only have Wonder Woman so far.Or at least in the past 10 or so years,before somebody corrects me.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#614
HT, you've said many times you don't like origin stories in superhero movies and shows, and I normally don't have that problem, but with Captain Marvel I'm kinda weary of it. Add to that it's a period piece (taking place in the nineties. the 90's now classifies for a "period piece". Boy that makes me feel old) and the potential for tie-ins and cameos could be more limited. I think we've been spoiled by Spider-Man and Black Panther at this point. Though at least, unlike Spider-Man, noone knows who Captain Marvel is in the movie landscape so it's not like Spider-Man again, Batman again, Superman again.

Shogun:

Spoiler
Last night I was skimming Red Letter Media's review of the flick and Rich Evans had this to say about the Empire comparison. "Here's the thing about Empire: It's a bittersweet ending. Here it's not bittersweet because there's no sweet. It's just bitter. It's a downer ending. It's the most depressing summer blockbuster since The Lone Ranger, but for completely different reasons." One of the RLM crew also observed that Marvel has now done "dark and gritty better than DC".
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Well guys, I loved it. Unabashedly, unreservedly, I loved it. For those that are interested, I'll post a review and some reflections. Spoilers afterwards in their box. Be warned, I have plenty to say.

Shogunn, SS, I've got a response to your points in my first spoiler-y section as well.

This is, simply put, fantastic in every sense of the word.  Interestingly, the response seems to have been overwhelmingly positive from both critics and fans, but the few complaints I've seen tend to be posited on a rejection of the boisterous, imaginative nature of the Marvel Universe.  I feel like the people who complain about the lack of weight for dire events in a story with 'magic jewels that can do anything' have let the world beat too much of the imagination out of them.

It's worth noting that this film is the culmination (or the first half it), of a decade of storytelling and adventure, and it is a worthy ending. Think about that for a moment. Marvel began this journey in 2008 with Iron Man, and since then the universe has grown, the characters have evolved, and it all built towards this moment. That is an incredible feat.

This is a film that takes advantage of all of the sprawling world that has been created, that draws on long established characters and relationships, on a familiarity and an affection that can only be created piece by piece, as they did. And that gives it a power that is unprecedented. We are seeing in film the same thing that makes American superheroes unique, the power of collective storytelling, the power of many stories feeding into and informing those that follow, a shared universe creating magnified narrative impact and allowing for a shorthand of expression. That by itself is pretty amazing, but as I said, this is a film that is worthy to wield such power.

Infinity War is huge and sprawling and truly epic. It is a film about loss and heroism and desperate hope, yet it is fun and endlessly exciting, even funny. I imagine everyone who has seen it has described it as 'an emotional rollercoaster,' but though cliched, that is certainly apt. There are a lot of highs and a lot of lows, but it all has weight.

The movie is beautiful, in terms of its wondrous settings and its special effects, which are jaw-dropping and accompany amazing action scenes, but also in terms of the story it tells, which is all about the central conflict of humanity, that of selfishness and the consuming will against love and sacrifice. It's beautifully archetypal, yet the villain has some real personality and pathos to him, being almost sympathetic, despite his monstrousness. Impressively, this film, with so much going on and so many characters vying for space, manages to overcome the Marvel two-dimensional villain weakness. Thanos is memorable and a worthy foe for the gathered heroes from the first moment he appears on screen.

Throughout, the film successfully feels grand in scope and in stakes, with action that spans the universe, a truly creation-shaking plot, and a MASSIVE cast of characters. Yet, and this is perhaps the most impressive piece of the movie's success to me, that humongous cast is incredibly well balanced. Obviously there are characters with more or less screentime, and many of these characters play fairly small roles, but nonetheless, no-one feels shortchanged (among main characters from the movies), with everyone getting at least small and touching moments, as well as big hero moments.

One of the things that I really loved about this movie is that it feels 'right' for the Avengers. It is by no means a direct translation of the comics, and yet it is like all of the Marvel films when they are at their best, taking the source material and elevating, transfiguring it into something else, something even grander and even richer and even more powerful than the original. It also finally feels like the Marvel Universe, with events happening and characters just showing up because they inhabit the same world. The Fantastic Four are really the only ones missing (because the X-Men have always sort of felt like their own thing), but who could notice with everything going on?

So, if you haven't seen it, go. Go while it is in theaters, because if ever a film deserved a big screen viewing, it is certainly this one.

Spoilers below:

First, to SS and Shogunn-
Spoiler

I completely understand your feelings on this, and I am sympathetic.  I've said very similar things several times around here.  Yet, I loved this film, even though the ending is pretty heartbreaking. Obviously, this is likely going to be undone in the next film, but it was still a beautifully sorrowful moment, full of other particularly poignant moments, and those are worthwhile. Spider-Man dying in Tony's arms, the surrogate son and father, Bucky fading away in front of Steve, and the Panther in front of Okoye: these are all particularly touching scenes of loss.

Obviously, the grimness of this ending flies in the face of one of the prime purposes of wondrous fiction. While I completely agree about the positive power of such tales, I think this case is a clear exception because it does not (and cannot) stand in isolation.  We know there is more to come, that there is another chapter, and though I sympathize with your anxiety given the length of wait, I don't think that is necessarily a flaw of the film.

This is, as y'all noted, like the Empire Strikes Back. This is the dark before the dawn, even if that dark is to last a year, and it works very well.  Yet, you're right; Empire ended with a surge back upwards, with Luke's escape and the hope of finding Han.  I agree, this movie probably should have had something like that, and yes, the after-credits scene was the place to do it.  Those are valid criticisms.  Yet, the presence of the Infinity Gauntlet softens this tragedy while still allowing it to keep its sorrowful beauty.  In Empire, Han is gone, Luke's hand is lost, and our young hero must live with those facts and with the knowledge he has gained at such terrible cost.  We need that upswing because these events can only be addressed by going forward.  That's not the case in this film.  We may, quite literally, be able to go back in time.  A hopeful final scene isn't necessarily needed because hope is inherent in the concept itself.  There is hope, hope for all, because the mechanism to undue all of this loss still exists.  The revelation of this hope is built into the same terrible moment where Thanos completes his quest.

But perhaps most important of all, remember what the Vision told Ultron: "A thing is not beautiful because it lasts."

Second, other thoughts in no particular order.
Spoiler

I'm genuinely intrigued by this ending and by Dr. Strange's enigmatic statements and his inexplicable choice. I have suspicions, and I am anxiously awaiting the chance to see if I'm right.

One of the most touching parts of the film was Scarlet Witch's agonizing decision to kill the Vision, and the fact that it fails renders it even more beautifully tragic. We got two moments like this, with Starlord's attempt to kill Gamora, with its failure and eventual consequences really just creating a surprisingly powerful pair of scenes.

On a brighter note, one of the real highlights of the film was seeing characters from different settings play off one another. I loved the interactions between the different heroes, especially Tony and Strange. They made a great pair, and Peter being along for the ride made it even better. The splitting up of the cast allowed for a really nicely diverse and well-balanced plot, while also allowing each group to shine.

I LOVED the heart that Captain America is still bringing to these films. His speech to the Vision and its reiteration back to him was one of my favorite beats of the movie. "We don't trade lives." That, right there, beautifully captures one of the competing ethoses of the two sides. The heroes, who value life and who are driven by love for one another, specifically, the mark of true heroism, self-sacrificial love, versus the man who desires all power for himself, however noble he may believe his goal, the man who would be a god. It's a great and archetypal conflict. This is what makes the Marvel movies work and what separates them from certain other superhero films.

A really nice surprise was Dr. Strange actually using his magic to more than just summon glowing whips and portals. We even got (unnamed but recognizable) versions of his actual go-to spells from the comics, which was great fun. Strange's showdown with Thanos is one of the high points of the movie, as is his team-up with Spider-Man. "Magic! More-Magic! Magic-with-a-kick!"

I am sort of amazed that they actually went all the way with Thanos's powers. In the comics, he successfully achieves his goal and reaches near omnipotence. I didn't think they would go that far considering how difficult a story that is to tell, but I'm thrilled that they did. I can't wait for the next chapter, and I can only begin to imagine what shape it could take. I was also delighted to see some of the whimsy and imagination of the comics' portrayals of his reality-warping, down to the bubble gun, slinky Mantis, and rock Drax. It was a perfect and yet silly way to display how absolute his power was. And it worked, which is its own kind of amazing.

I couldn't believe the Red Skull cameo! I've always wondered what became of him. It's a shame we're likely seeing the end of the original franchises, because I would LOVE to see him return to fight Cap in another movie.

The changes they made to Thanos's motivations were excellent and led to a much better realized character. The whole 'in love with Death' thing works okay in the comics, but it is a pretty weird idea, and it generally results in him just not being that interesting, I'd say. Darkseid, from whom he was copied, has a much better version of that, wanting to impose order on the cosmos and remake it in his own image, essentially a type of Lucifer. So, the switch works really well, but I would have liked to see his position strengthened JUST a bit, maybe a line by someone who says, 'yeah, the universe is heading for a crisis of resources in X period of time' or something, because the rational only really applies to certain worlds, and there is no real justification for making it universal. Yeah, he's a madman, but he's a madman they're trying to make somewhat sympathetic.

This was an excellent movie from top to bottom, and it really had only one real flaw, or rather, collection of flaws. That was was the Thor portion of the film, and that is largely the fault of a separate, inferior movie, Thor Ragnarok. First, pretty much the entire Asgardian cast is wiped out almost as casually as the rest had been in Ragnarok, which would be worse if this wasn't a film with so much loss anyway, but it is still noticeably weak in dramatic power. Loki's death has some weight, and Hiddleston's performance is particularly great. Yet, apparently everyone else died off panel, with the exception of Heimdal.

But the real problem was with Thor himself, because he was mostly absent from the film. Instead, we got the idiotically grinning, jokey buffoon of Ragnarok, who sort of looked like one of my favorite characters. His characterization remains off, but it improves over the course of the film, and by the time he's forging his hammer, Thor is mostly back on model. Still, it was discordant enough to make his scenes with the Guardians grate a bit for me. It's consistent with the previous film but with nothing else from the series, which is a problem in a movie that draws a lot of its power from that wider continuity. Also, while I loved the fantastic, cosmic, comic-y nature of the star forge, I also thought that Peter Dinklage's giant dwarf (haha, look, he's a dwarf, but he's big! I guess?) didn't quite work. It was one of the very few places where I felt like the special effects didn't do the trick. It felt like someone inhabiting a different space from the other characters, not realistically big and present.

I'm also really disappointed that Tony and Cap didn't get a moment before things went south. It would have taken narrative space that clearly wasn't to be spared, but I'm still sad and it is a noticeable absence.

Also, I've got to ask. How in the blue blazes did Iron Man survive having a moon dropped on him?

Finally, this is a very minor nitpick, but it's something that mildly annoyed me. Cap and Black Panther may be great warriors and incredible fighters, but they are apparently terrible with tactics. I buy the whole argument about why they couldn't let the monsters circle the city and thus why they had to open the shield, but they did it before they had their clearly excellently defensive force (their phalanx, effectively) in position in front of that ten foot wide hole. And not only that, but they charged across the field, getting spread out and engaging these monsters, which have no ranged attacks, hand-to-hand. I'm willing to forgive it because it was very cinematic and dramatic, but it annoyed me. Break the laws of physics all you want if you have a world in which that's possible, but don't break the logic of the world you create.

Anyway, all-in-all, this is an exceptional film, close to a perfect movie. I can't wait to see it again.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Tomato

Saw it just a bit ago. Not going as in-depth rn because I'm still processing, but some spoilery thoughts.

Spoiler

-the Rocket Racoon/Winter Soldier line might also be a reference to this meme that's been circulating since Guardians 1.
-Red Skull being here was a genuine surprise, but honestly... it should not have been for me specifically. Even putting aside the fact that Hugo had a history of being done with the MCU that mysteriously ended quite recently, he also was the only villain (that we know of) to get a single carded release for the "10 years of MCU" toy line (and I say that we know of because the Infinity War set has not been revealed. I am hard pressed to think who could be in it though.)
-Every heroic character from Phase 1 survived. Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Black Widow, Hulk, War Machine, and Hawkeye. And yes, we know Hawkeye too, because he's been seen on set in the Ronin gear. That seems VERY deliberate, since the only other hero left is Rocket.
-A friend I went to the film with pointed out that right before she's attacked, Shuri swipes something off to the side. It's entirely possible she also made a backup of Vision's consciousness, which gives them an easy way to bring him back.

As for the next films...
Spoiler
I will say, based on what I've heard, both of the next films will be tied in even more so than normal. Ant Man and Wasp will supposedly play a major role in expanding on a concept we'll need for Avengers 4 (likely the Microverse, since we've seen set photos of Janet van Dyne) and will likely give us a different perspective of events leading up to Avengers 3 and 4 given it takes place before either. Similarly, Captain Marvel supposedly will lead directly into Avengers 4, especially since the film is set to come out 6 weeks before Avengers 4 does.

Shogunn2517

One thing I didn't even notice the first time I saw it that some random guy said towards the end...

Spoiler
After everyone started fading away, after Dr. Strange faded away, the guy behind me noted back at his prior comment when he gave Thanos the stone, something along the lines of "this is how it has to play out" or something to that effect.  Obviously he knows what's going to happen in the future, which is why he was okay with giving up the stone, but it also, at the time, seemed like he knew not just that he'd be going, but also knew where he was going too... maybe.  Just seemed like a odd choice of words upon a second viewing/thought.

Silver Shocker

#618
Benton:

Indeed, I so focused on the ending that I didn't really praise what an accomplishment this film is. But I knew a LOT of people, both professionally and simply as fans, were going to do that anyway that a lot of what I would say would be redundant. But yeah, that all-points-converging high you get from a movie like this, it could only work if you had a rich world full of incredibly likable compelling characters. Something I've said for years is the MCU recreates the Marvel/DC shared universe experience from the comics (so does DC in is current movies, though not nearly as well) and that's perhaps most true here.

Spoiler


QuoteBut perhaps most important of all, remember what the Vision told Ultron: "A thing is not beautiful because it lasts."

Well, as Vision said right after that, he was born yesterday.

Regarding Thanos' use of his powers referencing the lore: Indeed, it goes far deeper than I even realized. I was just looking at the Tvtropes page for the film earlier tonight, and apparently many of the things Thanos does in the movie (the bubbles, for example) resemble things that he did in the Marvel Vs. Capcom games. Who knows if those were intentional references, but if they were, that's seriously impressive.

Actually, thinking of Mantis and Drax's cosmic body horror scenes just makes me want to see the Cancerverse from Abnett and Lanning's Cosmic comics appear in the movies. Now THAT would be wild.

Tom:

Spoiler

Quote-A friend I went to the film with pointed out that right before she's attacked, Shuri swipes something off to the side. It's entirely possible she also made a backup of Vision's consciousness, which gives them an easy way to bring him back.

I have no doubt in my mind that Shuri working on Vish will pay off in the next film. They just would not spend THAT much time and go that into detail about it for it to not amount to anything in the end, and Vision is way too awesome to waste like this, even if he was created with a built-in expiry date, so to speak. On that note, over on the Tvtropes page they pointed out that when Thanos takes Vision's gem and he collapses, he loses all the color in his body, which might be a reference to...well, Optimus Prime, perhaps, but also the 90's version of the character, who was all white (video game fans might recognize this version from the "Captain America and the Avengers" video games from the nineties) That Vision lost his emotions and became cold, and in the movie it's said that removing the mind stone might make him a completely different Vision. Personally I wouldn't mind a little Jonas/Teen Vision from Young Avengers action, but again, wishful thinking. Worked for Groot though. I'm a little curious is Shuri could actually copy Vish's consciousness to a computer storage, since Vish said that the mind stone, among several other's people (J.A.R.V.I.S., Tony, Banner and Ultron) is a key part of who he is. 


In general [SERIOUS SPOILERS for Avengers 4]

Spoiler
Set photos have also shown a grey-haired Tony (IN A SHIELD UNIFORM HOW DID I MISS THAT!!!), Ant-Man, Cap, and Banner (in full motion capture attire) wearing wrist tech. And Cap's wearing that godawful costume from the first Avengers movie (side note: I hate that costume. I said in 2012 it looks like a cheap Halloween costume, and I stand by it).

Time travel. IT. WILL. HAPPEN.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Shogunn2517

Quote from: Silver Shocker on April 30, 2018, 07:56:37 AM
Spoiler

Quote-A friend I went to the film with pointed out that right before she's attacked, Shuri swipes something off to the side. It's entirely possible she also made a backup of Vision's consciousness, which gives them an easy way to bring him back.

I have no doubt in my mind that Shuri working on Vish will pay off in the next film. They just would not spend THAT much time and go that into detail about it for it to not amount to anything in the end, and Vision is way too awesome to waste like this, even if he was created with a built-in expiry date, so to speak. On that note, over on the Tvtropes page they pointed out that when Thanos takes Vision's gem and he collapses, which might be a reference to...well, Optimus Prime, perhaps, but also the 90's version of the character, who was all white (video game fans might recognize this version from the "Captain America and the Avengers" video games from the nineties) That Vision lost his emotions and became cold, and in the movie it's said that removing the mind stone might make him a completely different Vision. Personally I wouldn't mind a little Jonas/Teen Vision from Young Avengers action, but again, wishful thinking. Worked for Groot though. I'm a little curious is Shuri could actually copy Vish's consciousness to a computer storage, since Vish said that the mind stone, among several other's people (J.A.R.V.I.S., Tony, Banner and Ultron) is a key part of who he is. 



The funny thing about that is, I thought about this playing "Contest of Champions" last week.

Spoiler
Since it was updated, they added the Black Order characters and black and white versions of a few other characters, Scarlet Witch, Hyperion and Vision who didn't look quite like his 90s version, but it certain reminded me of it, which lead me to believe in Infinity War the character would look a bit monochromatic at some point.  Whether he comes back or not, who's to say.  But I do like Tomato's theory.

Good catch Tomato.

Also, not to keep harping on the ending but, saw something in a article that kinda put in better words what I have a problem with:

Spoiler
You may call it bold and unexpected. I call it a cop-out. It's clear that these deaths are going to be reversed, massively cheapening what is supposed to be a cliffhanger. Had it been Captain America or Iron Man who was being killed, it would at least be believable and held some emotional weight because you know their time with Marvel is coming to an end. Instead, you know the biggest moment in the biggest Marvel movie thus far is eventually going to be erased.

Silver Shocker

#620
Speaking of the Black Order (as Shogunn mentions under the spoiler cut) I forgot to mention: Ebony Maw was great. The rest of the Black Order were as throwaway as throwaway gets, and weren't particularly true to their comics counterparts. But Maw was aces.  :thumbup:

Shogun:

Spoiler


QuoteAlso, not to keep harping on the ending but, saw something in a article that kinda put in better words what I have a problem with:

You may call it bold and unexpected. I call it a cop-out. It's clear that these deaths are going to be reversed, massively cheapening what is supposed to be a cliffhanger. Had it been Captain America or Iron Man who was being killed, it would at least be believable and held some emotional weight because you know their time with Marvel is coming to an end. Instead, you know the biggest moment in the biggest Marvel movie thus far is eventually going to be erased.

True, and perhaps they'll have a character (probably Tony, as many have guessed) make a final sacrifice. Is it bold? Yeah, but lots of series/storylines are bold. Even some bad ones. Unexpected? For the non-comics fans, perhaps. For the fans who know about the Infinity Gauntlet comic, heeeell no. There were people expecting this plot point to make it in years in advance. And hardcore Marvel fans are thoroughly conditioned to accept that heaven and hell have a revolving door in the superhero genre. And even without knowledge of the IG comic, like I said, I've seen so many different series do comparable cliffhangers I keep remembering more as I post in this thread (Ninja Turtles did it quite a few times, in both the 2K3 cartoon and the Nicktoons one. Naruto had a particularly epic one. Dragon Ball Z did it a few times. Remender's Uncanny Avengers did it. Beast Wars did it two years in a row. Reboot did it at least three times. Transformers Prime did it.) To me, the audacity has to do with the wait, which is considerably longer than pretty much any example I could come up with, (well, except for the book series Game of Thrones is based on, of course) and the fact that they made us wait through the entire credits for a Samuel L. Jackson meme and a crummy commercial (to quote Ralphie from A Christmas Story). With a different post-credit scene, a shorter wait, and the next two movies feeling less like "The Filler Saga" I might have had 0% issue with the ending. Now, if they had the TRAILER for the 4th movie after the credits, as Captain America did for The Avengers and The Matrix Reloaded did for its followup, I indeed would be pumped up.  #ThanosDemandsTheTrailer
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Shogunn2517

Actually that would have made a lot of sense, to do what Captain America did.

Silver Shocker

Taking inspiration from Cap is always a good play. So much so, that the speech (the "River of Truth" speech paraphrased from Mark Twain, spoken by Sharon Carter in CA: Civil War) that sprang Cap to action, was spoken BY Cap in the comic book Civil War.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Shogunn2517

I've lost count on how many times I've shared that speech on FB.

BentonGrey

Quote from: Silver Shocker on April 30, 2018, 07:56:37 AM
Benton:

Indeed, I so focused on the ending that I didn't really praise what an accomplishment this film is. But I knew a LOT of people, both professionally and simply as fans, were going to do that anyway that a lot of what I would say would be redundant. But yeah, that all-points-converging high you get from a movie like this, it could only work if you had a rich world full of incredibly likable compelling characters. Something I've said for years is the MCU recreates the Marvel/DC shared universe experience from the comics (so does DC in is current movies, though not nearly as well) and that's perhaps most true here.
Yeah, it's pretty amazing, and this movie really is the payoff of pretty much everything that came before.

Spoiler


Quote from: Silver Shocker on April 30, 2018, 07:56:37 AM
QuoteBut perhaps most important of all, remember what the Vision told Ultron: "A thing is not beautiful because it lasts."

Well, as Vision said right after that, he was born yesterday.
Ha!  Fair enough.  ;)  Yet, I still think there is some truth to the assertion in this context, on multiple levels.

SS, fascinating!  Very interesting!

On another note, the more I think about it, y'all are right about Hawkeye:
Spoiler
There is really no reason for him not to be in this film, both in terms of his personality, as y'all pointed out, but also because Cap aparently sprang him and the rest of the team at the end of Civil War.  Given that his family's location was a secret known only to the Avengers and Fury (and presumably Tony wouldn't have come after him after everything that happened), there's no reason for him to have taken a deal in the first place.

In terms of Thanos, this is sort of a minor thing, but why in the name of all that's good and holy did they end up going with that bald-headed look for him for the overwhelming majority of the film?  He looked perfect, intimidating, and straight out of the comics when he first showed up.  And he looked a lot more dignified than the look they went with.  What a weird choice!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Tomato

About Thanos' armor
Spoiler
The idea is to make him more... human, if that makes sense. On some level, they're actually going for the post-IG Thanos from the comics, the dude content to farm his crops in peace. The armor is much, MUCH cooler (and I feel like he should have still worn it in fight scenes beyond the Hulk one) and saved the simpler attire for the scenes with Gamora... but whatcha gonna do.

Also
Spoiler
So to everyone attributing the Shuri/Vision point to me, I do feel obligated to point out that... as I said in the initial post, I didn't notice the movement myself, my friend Eric did. While I'm usually pretty quick to pick apart plot details and tropes like that (I routinely annoy friends for guessing plot points ahead of time), I concede that I'm riding on Eric's coattails for that nugget of insight. I did share the kind words with him though.

Silver Shocker

#626
Tomato:

Yeah, but you were still the one who pointed out here. I personally missed that visual detail. The next time I see the film I'll watch to watch carefully for that.

Quote from: Tomato
Spoiler
-Every heroic character from Phase 1 survived. Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Black Widow, Hulk, War Machine, and Hawkeye. And yes, we know Hawkeye too, because he's been seen on set in the Ronin gear. That seems VERY deliberate, since the only other hero left is Rocket.

Spoiler
You're not counting Fury and Hill?

As for Thanos' armor, yeah, I prefer him wearing his full armor, but I got used to the bald-headed look by the time the film came out due to it being featured prominently in the trailers.

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 01, 2018, 02:33:15 AM
SS, fascinating!  Very interesting!

Are you referring to what I said about Cap's River of Truth speech or that Avengers 4 set photo I posted a link to?

If it's the speech, it was also used in the Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 video game in the form of an audio log, where it was said by Cap, as in the Civil War comic tie-in issues (the specific series was Amazing Spider-Man)

If it's the set photo:

Spoiler
Yeah, that one photo actually does tell you a lot. It tells you:

-Those four characters (if not any others) will be time travelling using devices on their wrists (as opposed to the Time Gem)

-They will be travelling to some point before the Winter Soldier (I'm genuinely curious as to why)

-Tony Stark apparently will be sneaking around some place S.H.I.E.L.D. operates (I would imagine the Helicarrier) disguised in a SHIELD uniform (how he's going to keep people from just taking one look at him and going "Tony Stark? What are you doing here?!") remains to be seen. I wonder if he'll use some kind of image inducer to make himself like Fury or something.

-Tony has either gotten grey hair or dyed his hair, implying either a time jump and/or an attempt to make it harder to tell he's Tony Stark while infiltrating Shield (???)

-Ant-Man will apparently team-up with these 3 characters, and maybe others. Either that or they'll all split up and go to different times, but they'll apparently get the tech from the same source.

-Banner will become the Hulk again, or at least have a partial transformation like we saw throughout Infinity War (not really a big surprise, but still notable)

I would guess that the time period before Winter Soldier will not be the only time period to time travel to, but time will tell. In any case, taking a good look at this image and catching all these details actually cheered me up quite a bit after the ending bummed me out, though it does make me wish something like this was the post credit scene for Infinity War.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

#627
Quote from: Tomato on May 01, 2018, 03:57:29 AM
About Thanos' armor
Spoiler
The idea is to make him more... human, if that makes sense. On some level, they're actually going for the post-IG Thanos from the comics, the dude content to farm his crops in peace. The armor is much, MUCH cooler (and I feel like he should have still worn it in fight scenes beyond the Hulk one) and saved the simpler attire for the scenes with Gamora... but whatcha gonna do.

I understand that, 'Mato, and you're not wrong.  Still, as you indicate, it was only necessary for a fraction of the time it was used.  I think it would be a good deal more effective if:

Spoiler
he had taken the armor off once his mission was complete.

He just looks a tad silly.  It annoyed me that they would deliver the perfect look and then immediately discard it.  This is, of course, a very minor complaint.

Quote from: Silver Shocker on May 01, 2018, 08:26:47 PM
Quote from: BentonGrey on May 01, 2018, 02:33:15 AM
SS, fascinating!  Very interesting!

Are you referring to what I said about Cap's River of Truth speech or that Avengers 4 set photo I posted a link to?

If it's the speech, it was also used in the Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2 video game in the form of an audio log, where it was said by Cap, as in the Civil War comic tie-in issues (the specific series was Amazing Spider-Man)

If it's the set photo:

Spoiler
Yeah, that one photo actually does tell you a lot. It tells you:

-Those four characters (if not any others) will be time travelling using devices on their wrists (as opposed to the Time Gem)

-They will be travelling to some point before the Winter Soldier (I'm genuinely curious as to why)

-Tony Stark apparently will be sneaking around some place S.H.I.E.L.D. operates (I would imagine the Helicarrier) disguised in a SHIELD uniform (how he's going to keep people from just taking one look at him and going "Tony Stark? What are you doing here?!") remains to be seen. I wonder if he'll use some kind of image inducer to make himself like Fury or something.

-Tony has either gotten grey hair or dyed his hair, implying either a time jump and/or an attempt to make it harder to tell he's Tony Stark while infiltrating Shield (???)

-Ant-Man will apparently team-up with these 3 characters, and maybe others. Either that or they'll all split up and go to different times, but they'll apparently get the tech from the same source.

-Banner will become the Hulk again, or at least have a partial transformation like we saw throughout Infinity War (not really a big surprise, but still notable)

I would guess that the time period before Winter Soldier will not be the only time period to time travel to, but time will tell. In any case, taking a good look at this image and catching all these details actually cheered me up quite a bit after the ending bummed me out, though it does make me wish something like this was the post credit scene for Infinity War.

I was talking about the Avengers 4 observations:

Spoiler
Very perceptive, but let me offer some other thoughts:
-Tony's gray hair may well be a result of the trauma he experienced in this film and not a time jump, as the others look the same (unless, he's Tony from the future, having gone back to recruit them to go yet further back).

-It's also possible that SHIELD has been reinstated post Thanos, so the uniform is not necessarily a clue on that angle.  Perhaps Tony has become head of SHIELD following the disappearance of both Fury and Hill. 

-Since we know that Ant-Man will visit the microverse in his next movie, I wonder if that will have some connection to the time travel and such.

-Actually, looking at it again, my guess is that this image indicates a visit to Avengers 1 era, as Cap looks just like he did in that film, down to his hair color.

-And also, I don't care what y'all say.  I love that Cap costume.  It is perfect! :D

I'm glad that this cheered you up some, man!  :)
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Silver Shocker

#628
On Thanos' Armor:

Spoiler
He could just conjure armor out of thin air once he got the Reality stone.

Avengers 4:

Spoiler


I actually had thought of that about Tony just after I wrote the post. That he could have been an older Tony Stark from the future, or an alternate future where S.H.I.E.L.D. was never disbanded. Tony Stark, agent of SHIELD? Maybe he's the one who comes to them and supplies them with the time travel tech?

The only reason I wouldn't think it's Avengers 1 Cap is because he's wearing the wrist device. If they went back in time, why would they bring that Cap with them?

Or maybe it's a partial adaptation of Avengers Forever. Multiple Avengers from multiple different eras.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Tomato

Spoiler
See, Fury is the exception because they had to tie in to Captain Marvel, and younger Fury supposedly is a big part of that. And to be fair, it's clearly not 1:1... Rocket, for example, is left as well. My point was more that, on a meta side, there's a disproportionate number of characters left from Phase 1 than from 2 and 3, and it feels SUPER deliberate. Given that most of them have contracts ending, it's entirely possible that most if not all the remaining heroes will end up sacrificing themselves to bring back the ones we just lost... it would complete Cap's arc with Bucky, Tony's arc about saving his friends and specifically Peter, even Rocket's arc from GotG2 would have a fitting conclusion if he ends up sacrificing himself for his "family".