Marvel Movies

Started by JeyNyce, October 28, 2014, 06:48:28 PM

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Silver Shocker

I just remembered something I'd forgotten for like two weeks since Avengers came out.

Thor really needs to stop doing that thing where he summons his weapon to his hand, indoors, several doors away. Seriously, Thor, it's a d*ck move. They made a joke out of it in Ragnarok but they do it again in Endgame (you can see it in some of the trailers) and the movie doesn't call attention to it.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

stumpy

SS, regarding Thor's weapon summoning: Agreed and that's bothered me for a while. Obviously, it is more than just rude to have Thor's gear destroying walls and so on as it answers his call. These are often occupied areas. The odds that someone gets smooshed by a flying hammer or axe get pretty high after a while. Maybe the idea is that these weapons are smart enough to do some path planning around obstacles, which I would find totally believable and which I think I have seen in the comics. But, I don't recall ever being shown that in the MCU, and it would have been easy (and kind of cool) to have shown.

Spoiler
BTW, I think the continuity issue with Cap can be resolved by applying the time-travel rules roughed out during the movie. As others have said, the Cap issue should have taken 30 seconds to explain. Really just old Cap saying, "I came back yesterday. I've been away for a long time."

And, I also agree that it would be beyond odd for Cap to have lived decades somewhere and sat out every major event, knowing he could have helped. Since the "other" Cap arguably would have been frozen in ice, it's not like it would have been that disruptive, at least until he left just as the "new" (original to that timeline) Cap showed up. I haven't read what the Russo brothers have said about it. And, I don't care. They had every opportunity to clarify what they thought happened in the movie. If it's not in there, then their version is no more official than any fan speculation based on what actually made the final cut. That said, there is still potential for extended scenes and director's cut versions, so I guess they do get another bite at the apple, if they care enough to take it.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

kkhohoho

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 06, 2019, 04:10:34 PM
Yeah...I don't know how I feel about that.  It looks like fun, but that seems like rather a big departure if, as SS says, they're telling the truth.  Hmm.  Also:

Spoiler
Spider-Man having these connections to Fury/Happy, while thematically appropriate, sort of undermine the whole "Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man" thing.  It fits in their universe, but it isn't really all that fitting for the comic character, at least to me.  This isn't necessarily a problem, just a discordant note that I notice.

Spoiler
Spidey hasn't really been a 'Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman' for a while now. He was a fulltime Avenger for over 10 years or so, and he was a millionaire for a few years too. I think they've tried to scale it back somewhat, but he's not that much of a smalltime hero anymore.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

Tomato

Spoiler
That's fine, but his entire arc in Homecoming was about how he wanted to be a friendly neighborhood Superhero and catch street level baddies. He turned down the Avengers gig so he could stay where he was.

Admittedly, Sam Jackson's response is an appropriate criticism of that mentality, but still.

HarryTrotter

Well,I saw Captain Marvel.It was...a thing.Nick Fury was the highpoint as everyone said.Oh and Skrulls are a metaphor for illegal immigration.In case you missed that.Im not sure how you could,but thats the whole point.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

Ehh, I don't think it's nearly as hamfisted as all of that. 
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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HarryTrotter

Its not really subtle,either. ☺️
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Well coming from someone who worked in politics for most of his adult life, I never picked up on it.

And as I think about it now....

I still don't see it.

BentonGrey

Well, you can certainly make a case for it:
Spoiler
(Skrulls hiding among refugees, actually turning out to BE refugees, etc.), but I don't see it as a major feature of the film.  In fact, the major focus of the Skrull plot is more generally about the fear of the Other.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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stumpy

I didn't have a problem with the lightly-drizzled-with-recent-headlines aspect of Captain Marvel, though I didn't think it was especially subtle, either. The story template that the-supposed-bad-guys-might-not-really-be-so-bad isn't that original, but it was a serviceable framework for a story. I just don't think they really took it very far.

If there was a problem with the script, it was that Captain Marvel herself doesn't seem very transformed by the events portrayed. I mean, for an origin story, she seems pretty much the same person at the end as at the start, just with a slightly better memory of how she got there. Of course, she ends up with less to limit the overpowered nature of the character, but that may not really be growth and I would argue that it makes it harder to fit the character into team-up movies. It also seemed like the acting from BL was a little on the wooden side. She's capable of better, so maybe that's another script or directing issue.

The movie is okay, but I don't see a persuasive case that it's among the top in the MCU.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

HarryTrotter

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on May 31, 2019, 03:19:46 AM
Well coming from someone who worked in politics for most of his adult life, I never picked up on it.

And as I think about it now....

I still don't see it.
Thats an appeal to authority.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

Different people get different things out of movies, tv shows, comic book storylines, ect. For example, I know someone who thinks Riri William's current armor doesn't look like Hornet. I went back and compared the two again, and was unsurprised to see that they looked even more similar than I first thought.

In terms of Captain Marvel, I've not seen the film, so I can't comment on that firsthand. Not that I really care to get into a political topic about it mind you.

QuoteIf there was a problem with the script, it was that Captain Marvel herself doesn't seem very transformed by the events portrayed. I mean, for an origin story, she seems pretty much the same person at the end as at the start, just with a slightly better memory of how she got there. Of course, she ends up with less to limit the overpowered nature of the character, but that may not really be growth and I would argue that it makes it harder to fit the character into team-up movies. It also seemed like the acting from BL was a little on the wooden side. She's capable of better, so maybe that's another script or directing issue.

The movie is okay, but I don't see a persuasive case that it's among the top in the MCU.

I get the sense that is/will be a common opinion. The origin movies tend to be the lesser films in the MCU. Doctor Strange, I would say is about par with a Phase 1 MCU film. Ant-Man, which I really, really like, due to having a natural bias for the character/property, also would be on the lower run of MCU films IMO. Black Panther and Spider-Man I don't count in these because they were introduced in Civil War and the MCU skipped Spidey's origin entirely.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

#762
Yeah Stumpy, I pretty much entirely agree.  It was a good, entertaining film, but I think Captain Marvel was, in many ways, one of the least interesting things about it.  Honestly, my only real complaint is that I felt she was rather badly cast.  I've heard that Larson is a good actress (and I thought she did a fine enough job), but she really seemed a poor fit in the roll to me.  She seemed far too 'normal' for the soldier/warrior bad-a that she is supposed to be in the film.  I just didn't really buy her in the role.  I feel like it would be the equivalent of casting Mark Ruffalo as Captain America.  And yeah, they've made her so powerful that I have no idea how in the world they'll fit her into any team movies.

Nonetheless, I enjoyed it, and Nick Fury steals every scene he's in, to no-one's surprise. 
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

I'll watch it eventually for Nick Fury and the cat. And Jude Law. And Ben Mendohlson. And Gemma Chan.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Shogunn2517

Quote from: HarryTrotter on May 31, 2019, 04:59:13 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on May 31, 2019, 03:19:46 AM
Well coming from someone who worked in politics for most of his adult life, I never picked up on it.

And as I think about it now....

I still don't see it.
Thats an appeal to authority.

I don't even know what that means.

The thing is, I'll have to see it again, but the Skrulls weren't really about assimilation. They might have been refugees, but it ain't like Central American refugees are the only refugees in the history of refugees.  Of course there might be similarities, but Talos was all about finding his family and finding a home. Not about living the American Dream. The bigger theme was the Kree vs Skrulls.  There's no such war theme in the Immigration debate. And lastly, the Skrulls ultimately left Earth.

HarryTrotter

https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/lp/Bo/LogicalFallacies/244/Appeal-to-False-Authority
And no offense,where you worked,has no connection to how other people view the movie.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Why would I be offended? It's your opinion. So as mine. This is not based on a factual subject. It's a matter of perspective. So that link isn't at all relevant to what I was referring to when I stated my work history. I work in politics. I am very familiar with the immigration issue. I have worked with immigrants. I have had to educated the public on issues affecting immigrants and immigration, legal or otherwise. I say this to demonstrate my familiarity with the subject. I never said you are wrong. I never said you don't know what you're talking about or I know better than you or anyone. I'm just saying that looking through my lens, knowing what I have known, I do not see the connection you're alleging. And earlier I told you why.

HarryTrotter

Which isnt really relevant,unless your trying to prove your the expert on alien immigration here.In which casr,cool I guess?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

What are you trying to be an arse for? I expressed an opinion. My opinion. Just like you did. Your opinion is not fact. Your opinion is not truth. It's your opinion. Of course if someone is more familiar with something they'd know what the hell they're talking about. If you said Captain Marvel looks like my mom, I'd say no she don't because I actually know what the frell my mom looks like. But you're talking about something COMPLETELY subjective. And trivial. You think there was some deeper meaning in the movie. Fine. I'm glad you have an opinion. I just don't share it.  What am I supposed to not talk? Am I supposed to agree with you or something? What?

BentonGrey

#769
I'm going to make a comment about this appeal to authority claim, while at the same time making an appeal to authority.  Take that  :P :
(Puts on rhetoric teacher hat)

I feel like, in order for the statement to be fallacious, such an appeal to authority fallacy would have to be a bit more intentional and directed.  Shogunn's point seemed more about establishing his perspective than saying "I know everything about this subject." 

Remember folks, let's be more gracious to each other and not assume that every differing opinion is an attack.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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Silver Shocker

On an different note:

Now that Disney's bought Fox, lots of "what could have been" info has been coming out about Fox X-Men and FF movies. Unused scripts for Fan4stic, Matthew Vaughn's plans for X-Men if he were to continue with the sequels, Tom Hardy as a younger Wolverine, and most astonishing (pun not intended), a Fox movie featuring X-Men, Fantastic Four, Daredevil (who they had the rights to back then) and Deadpool (back before the Deadpool movies were made). Wow, Fox was trying to literally throw everything at the wall, weren't they? That sounds like it would have been a complete mess.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on June 01, 2019, 11:17:54 PM
What are you trying to be an arse for? I expressed an opinion. My opinion. Just like you did. Your opinion is not fact. Your opinion is not truth. It's your opinion. Of course if someone is more familiar with something they'd know what the hell they're talking about. If you said Captain Marvel looks like my mom, I'd say no she don't because I actually know what the frell my mom looks like. But you're talking about something COMPLETELY subjective. And trivial. You think there was some deeper meaning in the movie. Fine. I'm glad you have an opinion. I just don't share it.  What am I supposed to not talk? Am I supposed to agree with you or something? What?
Not disputing that,and I wasnt trying to antagonize you.Its just that I find the take of  "Im an IRL politician so" pretty funny. 😉
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

SickAlice

I'm still wondering if Wong eventually got a tuna sub.

SickAlice

Take or leave it but I spent the hard earned dollar to see Dark Phoenix and, noting those who know me know I tend to find the positive side of comic media, was a complete let down and I want a refund. Just a warning for anyone toying with the idea that it may appeal to them coming from an 80's up X-Men fan. If you want to watch Sophie Turner pretty much full stop you won't be disappointed otherwise it failed to deliver in any sense. I had to watch DOFP after just to get the taste out of my mouth and that taste was pretty funky. Sorry, and I love X-Men as much as I love Ninja Turtles and even managed to find redeeming qualities in X3 but just saying save your dollar and see Endgame again and watch this one when it comes out on television.

BentonGrey

Well, I can't say that's surprising....at all....but that's still a shame.  This is pretty much what I've been hearing, and it is also what I expected after the disaster that was the last one.  Also...it doesn't take a genius to know that you can't adapt that amazing story without laying the groundwork for it, and seeing as we JUST meet their new Cyclops and Jean in the last movie and that they had pretty much zero personality, it wasn't a very good bet. :P
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

SickAlice

#775
Well again even when it's a dud I can usually scrape something off and if nothing novelty. Not this one. First the plot...well just toss that out. I have no clue what they were thinking with that. So aliens...okay well just people that are supposed to be aliens with monotone behavior. So character development, I mean the past three films introduced a lot...well no. So and not a spoiler here because these are things that are not in the film: One of those cool Quicksilver scenes? Nope, in fact he doesn't star in it other than a cameo. So at the end I'm like well at least Stacy X is in it, that's sort of neat. At home I look online and it's Selene...somehow even though she appears to Stacy X. So that leave The Phoenix Force, who wouldn't pay to see that finally amiright? Well, how do you feel about comic book entities that are represented by clouds of space dust? Yeah...

Anyways big waste of time and it doesn't deliver anything even what it promised which was resolution for the fans. Just five or so actors showing some attitude but more that they're pretty much not into it and done with this franchise. And I mean I wish there was more to it, the franchise over all has given so much and this being the last one and all I would have thought they would want to do at least anything they never got to. Oh Dazzler is in it in her disco costume but again, cameo so you could just as well watch that on Youtube. Sigh. It's only competition is The Secret Life of Pets 2 and it's getting slaughtered by it if that says anything.

BentonGrey

Yep, it's a shame.  After the excellent course correction of Days of Future Past, it's amazing that they managed to squander that good will.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Shogunn2517

#777
Quote from: SickAlice on June 08, 2019, 05:34:19 PM
Take or leave it but I spent the hard earned dollar to see Dark Phoenix and, noting those who know me know I tend to find the positive side of comic media, was a complete let down and I want a refund. Just a warning for anyone toying with the idea that it may appeal to them coming from an 80's up X-Men fan. If you want to watch Sophie Turner pretty much full stop you won't be disappointed otherwise it failed to deliver in any sense. I had to watch DOFP after just to get the taste out of my mouth and that taste was pretty funky. Sorry, and I love X-Men as much as I love Ninja Turtles and even managed to find redeeming qualities in X3 but just saying save your dollar and see Endgame again and watch this one when it comes out on television.

Sheesh, dude! Not sure if I'd go that hard! Ouch! Lol

Not gonna lie, I was disappointed with it too there were some entertaining parts..... but overall... that movie was nothing but a missed opportunity. I got one big question:

Spoiler
WTF killed Apocalypse? So... Jean had the Phoenix Force in the 80s. But she gets possessed by the Phoenix Force in the 90s... again? Or did she already have that power? They literally never even TOUCHED that. I mean, come on, that's a huuuuuge cliffhanger to just simply ignore and think you can make up for it with a whole different unrelated power.

Also, this is pretty much the worse villain I've seen. I swore JC was going to be a female version of Mastermind. Or at least an alien opposition that wanted to kill the Phoenix. Nope. Some obscure Marvel villain.  Someone said it right, Jean is pretty much window dressing for someone else's story. In X3 it was Wolverine. Here it's Xavier and Mystique. By the way, I am completely over Mystique being a hero. Of all the mutants they could have gone with. By the way, the roster is quite weird. And with each movie in the rebooted time line we've gotten new mutants. Bishop, Warpath, Quicksilver, Psylock, Storm, Archangel, Nighcrawler, not to mention the cameos and returning characters. But the only new mutant we get is a cameo from Dazzler? That's it?

I do have to say, I did like the last part of the movie, even though the ending was meh. The fights at the mansion and on the train were pretty dope. Honestly that's almost all due to Magneto being pretty much that dude he's always been. He makes every scene he's in better. 

But yeah. SA youre right about a lot of what you said. Can't say I want my money back. Was going to go anyway and I wasn't expecting much to begin with. Which is kinda unfortunate because despute the bad reviews i really like the prior ones dor the most part. Was happy Phoenix showed up to kill Apocalypse at the end. It could ha e only been that. Which it makes it so aggrivating that they screw this up. Again! Like how?

And I'm not sure if this counts as a spoiler but making a X-Men movie that takes place in the 90s and you DON'T give Storm long hair and a white costume? That was a layup! And you missed!

BentonGrey

God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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SickAlice

I'd go that hard, it's numbers speak for it here. In their defense I know they encountered every problem they could in making this film and I think they were just honoring their contract here. My work ethic says don't do a job if I'm going to do it halfway but I know when you're union it's a matter then of not getting paid and not getting the next job from your union. That's irony of course because it's what happened with X3 as well. In fact they lost what, six or more months of production was it on that one?

Here's a better question for you then the Phoenix/Apocalypse one, where did the mansion come from? And I mean it was there down to the very doors, trim boards, furniture and decorations on the desks. No explanation either it was just there. Anyways they screwed it up because it doesn't work in film, the Dark Phoenix story is what I mean. Like Apocalypse. I liked that one but wasn't very deep but that's because the source material wasn't. It's just Apocalypse is powerful as all get and whoops on everyone without breaking a sweat. So that movie delivered. This thing had the stuff the source material did it just doesn't look as good off paper. Personally I would have went with something inspired by Fatal Attractions. Big Xavier and his kids Vs. Magneto and his people showdown. To me that would wrap the storyline since the first. Have it be a confrontation of the various character developments.

I'm also not critically let down. We've been spoiled as comic fans and gotten pretty much everything we wished for in film and then some. The problem of course is in some cases we got what we wished for and found out it wasn't that good of a thing. Also this means moving on. I'm looking forward to New Mutants and what Disney has planned for all this. Looking forward to seeing something new with it.