Marvel Movies

Started by JeyNyce, October 28, 2014, 06:48:28 PM

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detourne_me

Just got back from watching it. It was really really good.
I'd put it in the top 10, not quite top 5 MCU movies. And probably 2nd or 3rd best Spider-Man movie after Raimi Spider-Man 2.

Stay after the credits!

Shogunn2517

Yeah, I saw it last night too,  but unfortunately I gotta say I don't think I enjoyed it quite as much as you did, DM. I mean if you held a gun to my head and asked, I'd say yes it was good, but I don't think it held up well compared to the first. And in regard to Spider Man movies overall, I'd still put Raimi's first two ahead of this as well.

It was solid, but in many cases seemed to try to do too much.

Spoiler
So, the whole plot pretty much revolved around Mysterio, a former Stark Industries inventor, with other bitter Stark former employees(including Ralphie from A Christmas Story) using the virtual reality system Tony had in Civil War to get control of Stark weapons and systems. I didn't mind it so much. Beck was quite the formidable villain. The way he kept throwing illusions or projections at Spider-Man even had me wondering what's real or not. Little disappointed they had to kill him. Was starting to wonder that with the postcred from HC that they'd build more to a Sinister Six entry. Since outside of Vulture, Shocker and Scorpion we go small (Itty bitty) Easter Eggs for Hydroman and even Sandman. But I really did like how they handled him that was a pretty big take away for me. Also Spider-Man was more seemingly in his element with the acrobatics and webslinging. Gotta say the way they decided to focus on his spidey senses was a little over the map(he dodges bullets but May smacks him in the head with a banana. But then he goes full Matrix at the end. It was cool but never really explained what the difference was).

What I didn't like or what bothered me is kinda the whole idea of the movie for starters. I think I'm use to the idea of Spiderman being a more localized hero. Like he said in the movie(and his tag line really)"I'm just your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man." Not that it was that bothersome, a part of me would have rathered seen his story continue in New York. Another thing that threw me off was Michelle/MJ. I can't say I was the fan of USM a many of you were but I heard your complaints about Ned/Ganke switch and that's my problem here. They are full bore shoehorning a entirely different character into this role. Not simply from the comics but she was pretty much a different character from the first movie. She goes from Michelle to MJ(as if that her name in the comics anyway). She goes from the emo loner weirdo to wearing dresses and makeup and being noticed by people in general. And then Peter goes from one movie nearly unaware of her existence completely to obsessing over her by the next movie. Just seemed really inconsistent.

But beyond that, the humor, while I laughed it seemed a little corney at times.

Again, overall I liked it, but some of these inconsistencies stuck out to me. Just thought the first was a stronger entry.

Oh and also
Spoiler
I did like their change to J. Jonah Jameson. Instead of the Daily Bugle being print media, they made him more of an Infowars/Alex Jones conspiracy type. Which would make it sensible that he's smearing a hero and they can also play off the identity reveal at the end being "fake news". I could see something like that happening.

stumpy

I saw it and enjoyed it. The whole balancing the potential responsibilities of Spider-Man as a hero with the more globe-trotting reach that SHIELD/Fury wants against the friendly, neighborhood Spidey that Peter envisions is still a compelling storyline, overall. Yes, it's been done before during Raimi's tenure on the series. But, I think it still works and is even more of a potential burden with Spidey as part of the larger MCU.

Spoiler
Mysterio was a compelling villian and I think Gyllenhaal did a great job with him. However, it was bothering me when they finally revealed his backstory. I mean, Fury and SHIELD have been keeping a close eye on Stark for years. And, Quentin Beck was doing cutting-edge research for Stark. So, when Mysterio unmasks in front of many SHIELD agents (and Fury and Hill), no one checks him out? "Funny, there was a guy who worked for Tony Stark who looks identical to you and was working on holographic tech..." And, keep in mind the Beck isn't some shrinking violet type. He wants to be basically the most famous person in the world.

Anyway, not a show-stopper by any means. There are always some shaky parts of story. But, I would have though they could have come up with something different for Beck. Particularly since they had already used the "scientist that Tony ignored years ago comes back as a supervillian" backstory in Iron Man 3.
Courage is knowing it might hurt, and doing it anyway. Stupidity is the same. And that's why life is hard. - Jeremy Goldberg

Silver Shocker

#813
Saw it today. I definitely enjoyed it. It went in some directions I was expecting (but still enjoyed) and some I was not expecting, which certainly kept things interesting. Ned probably stole the show for comedy IMO. It was neat to see this version of Betty Brant have a bigger role. It was nice to see Happy Hogan be nicer to Peter after brushing him off in Homecoming. Fury was....alright in this, but those expecting another team-up like in Captain Marvel might be disappointed. Though Nick Fury's car had "MTU" (Marvel Team-Up) written on its license plate (another car's license plate had ASM - Amazing Spider-Man)

Still not a big fan of Michelle, but she was certainly used better in this film than in Homecoming. I'm also still not sold on Flash. Don't really like the kind of humor he's used for, and he comes off as a missed opportunity given some of the more interesting developments with the character in other iterations.

Spoiler
I had concerns for Jake Gyllenhal as Mysterio going in - I didn't think he looked the part, he didn't seem bombastic enough for Mysterio, but that was before the reveal. At which point it made sense that the guy with the movie star looks would be the fake hero, and Jake G started showing a bit more swagger in the role. Yeah, I agree that he's basically got the same backstory as Aldrich Killian from Iron Man 3 (with a little Adrian Toombs from Homecoming thrown in) but I liked how it kept Tony Stark as a part of the plot post-modem. And they even brought back the guy from the "box of scraps!" scene from Iron Man. That amused me.

I really enjoyed the trippy illusion scenes Spidey got caught in. Mind you Spidey seemed more noticably CGI than any other part of the movie, making the whole thing feel more like a cartoon than live action, but it also reminded me of the kind of elaborate sequences you'd see from the Spider-Man cartoons, comics or the Scarecrow and Mad Hatter sequences from the Batman Arkham Games. It even seemed to reference the Clone Saga with Spidey being dogpiled by other Spider-Mans.

I was surprised "Dimetri" never turned out to be The Chameleon. I was waiting the whole film for that reveal and it never happened. Apparently one villain was plenty.

QuoteHowever, it was bothering me when they finally revealed his backstory. I mean, Fury and SHIELD have been keeping a close eye on Stark for years. And, Quentin Beck was doing cutting-edge research for Stark. So, when Mysterio unmasks in front of many SHIELD agents (and Fury and Hill), no one checks him out? "Funny, there was a guy who worked for Tony Stark who looks identical to you and was working on holographic tech..." And, keep in mind the Beck isn't some shrinking violet type. He wants to be basically the most famous person in the world.

I'd say that's a fair criticism of the plot. There are a few other minor plot holes I noticed or read about later. One being that Spidey regained control of EDITH easily despite having to sign over control to Beck earlier in the flick. Beck also meets with Spidey on a roof despite it later being revealed that he doesn't in fact fly. How did he get up there?

I could have done without them killing Beck, but as others have theorized, he could still be alive. Spidey's Spider-Sense is often depicted as specifically warning him of physical danger to his person, so it's possible Mysterio faked his death and escaped by not attacking Peter again.

Also, as always, Peter's gotta learn to keep his damn mask on.

QuoteI did like their change to J. Jonah Jameson. Instead of the Daily Bugle being print media, they made him more of an Infowars/Alex Jones conspiracy type. Which would make it sensible that he's smearing a hero and they can also play off the identity reveal at the end being "fake news". I could see something like that happening.

Yeah, I think the way J. Jonah is used here makes sense, and I've seen him used similar ways in other recent iterations (Dan Slott's Spider-Man run in the comics post Superior Spider-Man, and the Spider-Man PS4 video game). The Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon and the 90's cartoon (which I grew up on and made me a fan) also featured Jameson as a host of a tv show.

Not sure how I feel about him looking more like J.K. Simmons the actor and less like J.Jonah Jameson the character, but that's probably a minor complaint.
That big reveal in the mid-credits sequence alongside J.K.'s cameo certainly made things interesting. I'm genuinely curious what they're going to do with the eventual 3rd movie....and where that business with Nick Fury is going.

Also, apparently the public thinks Captain America is dead?

Also, am I the only one who thought Ben Mendohlson's performance in this film was more goofy than in Captain Marvel? He kinda sounded like he was playing Talos drunk, presumably to make the scene feel more comedic.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Shogunn2517

Arkham games.... I can see that. That's a fair comparison. Makes sense.

Tomato

Just saw it and caught up on spoiler tags.

Spoiler
I think they explained the issue with the Spider Sense just fine. The reason it's not going at the start of the film is because he's exhausted, conflicted about Tony's death (presumably the second he's now failed to save) and everyone wanting him to become the new Iron Man when, really, he's a kid and that's way too much to expect from him. Kid literally died, came back to life, and saw his surrogate father figure die within (from his point of view) the span of a single day. As he says repeatedly, he needs a vacation... and gets pulled into "Fury" nonsense instead, with even more pressure being placed on him in the process.

The Fury thing wasn't that great a shock to me. The whole dynamic with Fury just seemed off the entire film. He was straight up a jerk to Peter (whereas I was expecting something more akin to either USM the comic or the cartoon, with Fury as a mentor/father figure), was very petulant about both the door thing and Peter ghosting him, was WAY too trusting of Beck, etc. Him being Talos makes sense, and also allows them to do the whole "Fury isn't always actually Fury" thing we saw in the comics with LMDs.

Speaking of, I feel I should bring up that Beck isn't his real name, since I know someone mentioned "Well how didn't SHIELD know who this guy is?" During that scene where the crew is celebrating, a mention is made that someone came up with the Quentin Beck name as well as the dimension backstory. Given that it's actually Talos and he's working with a bare-bones post SHIELD team, I'm not shocked that was enough to throw them off the scent temporarily.

Silver Shocker

Had some time to think on it and...

Spoiler
That's a fair point about Beck....buuuut...

He still looks like Jake Gyllenhaal in the flashback... so apparently none of them (Fury, Hill, Dimitri, et al) could scan his face and ID him? Spider-Man did that in the previous film with Mac Gargan.

Speaking of Mac Gargan, there's a nifty theory online that in a future movie, now that both Jameson and Gargan are in this universe, we'll get the classic comics version of Gargan's Scorpion origin (i.e. Jameson hires Gargan to be a guinea pig for a experiment that turns him into the Scorpion, "The natural enemy of the spider" to defeat Spider-Man.) Wouldn't that be neat!
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

#817
So, we just saw this, and everyone in my group liked it.  It was fun, enjoyable, but not REALLY a Spider-Man movie in setting or large-scale feel.  In themes, of course, it was.  The kid was born to play Spider-Man.  He's perfect.  The first one was better, but not massively so.  It was definitely funny and occasionally charming.  The humor did feel a bit forced in a few spots, though.

My previous issues with this version continue and are definitely a bit magnified in this outing, but I'm still enjoying this take for the moment, largely because of the very solid overall quality.  "Flash" bothered me more on this one, MJ probably a little bit less because they let her evolve beyond the obnoxiousness of the first one...though she has somehow turned into April Ludgate.  I still wish they had just given her a different name.  I'd be fine with Spidey having a different high school girlfriend, as MJ was always more of a college/adult character.

Mysterio was quite good, and I was very pleased on the whole with their take on him.

Spoilery thoughts, including my biggest criticism:
Spoiler
It was quite nice to see a relatively straight adaptation of the character.  I can't believe we got such a faithful version of his costume.  It was pretty great, and it made perfect sense as special effects.  I agree that it's a tremendous waste for him to have died, but given his whole shtick, they can definitely have him back, even if it is only an illusion.  I was also really glad to see them go pretty crazy with his illusions, even if it was probably a bit much, ha.  It was great that we got to see Mysterio REALLY be Mysterio, for the most part.  I might have preferred it if he had been more of a solo act, even if it would have been less believable. 

My main problem with the film is highlighted by the climactic fight.  The scale was just too big for Spidey.  I know he's got fancy Stark tech in this version, but still.  Spider-Man should totally be dead, "Peter Tingle" or not (and that made me laugh).  But more importantly, the feel of the whole thing was really just wrong for Spider-Man.  It was an interesting take on the character, but while the story made good use of the ideas, it just struck a false note for me. 

And that's a shame, because I LOVE the idea of Peter as a successor for Iron Man....but an adult Peter.  They've struggled to find a direction for grown-up Pete....and that's a great one...but in this movie, he's absolutely right.  He's a kid, and he's not at ALL ready for the kind of pressure or responsibility that such a role would demand of him, especially for what it means in the movie universe!  I don't absolutely hate it or anything, but I rather wish they had been able to tell some more traditional Spidey films for a few years before we reached this point.  No matter how smart or how good Peter is, there is no way in Hades that a 17 year old should have that kind of power, ha.

On a secondary note, those drones really rather bork the MCU setting.  If you can just dispatch a zillion cloakable kill drones to take care of any threat, you're done.  Ha!

The Fury/Skrull reveal was interesting, and it did take care of my issues with Fury's portrayal/gullibility throughout the movie.  I'm curious.

The big reveal of Peter's identity was really something.  I'm curious to see where that will go, but MAN, the MCU REALLY hates secret identities.  First MJ and then that?  Sheesh!

Also, I agree with most of y'all; I liked seeing Simmons back and the move for Jameson makes sense, though I'm not as pleased about it as some of y'all.  I've always liked J. J. J. as ridiculous but having a basic journalistic integrity.  I hope we'll not see him go full shock jock.

It was good seeing Happy stepping into the mentor role and getting something to do in these films, even if the whole 'Peter with a mentor' dynamic still feels wrong to me. 

So, on the whole, it was good.  I'm glad I saw it, but I wasn't blown away by it. 
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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SickAlice

I liked it better than the first. Still had that fun the first did but they didn't take it so far as to make it ridiculous. More streamlined and it had better pacing as well was more intimate. I actually care about their MJ which I did not in the first movie. I tried to grant it the whole time that this film wasn't trying to live up to Homecoming but rather Endgame, or at least that was going to be the expectation so I flushed Endgame from my brain first as well I could. They should have done a later release that said, too close to the hype of Endgame. I would have went for a release right about when the Endgame DVD hits. That way they would ensure more people see Endgame and may have an interest in it's epilogue. In the same way then they would pretty much be able to own the action figure aisles this Christmas. Anyways Mysterio is hella awesome, this movie could have been a flop and it would of worth it for that.

Shogunn2517

So...

Along with the new shows and movies announced at the SDCC... (I suppose I'll put it in spoilers, for now at least...)

Spoiler
(Hawkeye, Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki and "What If" on Disney+ along with Guardians of the Galaxy 3, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Black Widow, Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Thor: Love and Thunder, and Eternals with promises of Blade, Fantastic Four and Mutants/X-Men on the horizon), we have Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings as well. So what are the chances we can get a cameo or a small part by Finn Jones in the movie?

SickAlice

Not really new announcements all things considered sans giving titles to a few. I'm glad they're pushing it down a few years, I think if they get greedy and don't allow for a lapse they'll create an over-saturation lull.

murs47

Well...subscribing to Disney+ was going to be unlikely but after seeing this line-up, Disney can just take my money!

SickAlice


Silver Shocker

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on July 22, 2019, 04:20:53 AM
So...

Along with the new shows and movies announced at the SDCC... (I suppose I'll put it in spoilers, for now at least...)

Spoiler
(Hawkeye, Wandavision, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki and "What If" on Disney+ along with Guardians of the Galaxy 3, Black Panther 2, Captain Marvel 2, Black Widow, Dr. Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, Thor: Love and Thunder, and Eternals with promises of Blade, Fantastic Four and Mutants/X-Men on the horizon), we have Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings as well. So what are the chances we can get a cameo or a small part by Finn Jones in the movie?

I wouldn't bet on it. I had a much longer post but the board ate it (grr) so I'll cut to the chase:

Spoiler
As far as I know, the only character introduced in the tv shows to make it into the movies is Edwin Jarvis in Endgame, and as someone online pointed out, Kevin Feige was a producer on Agent Carter (which itself was spun off from a short on the Iron Man 3 Blu-Ray) so that might be the only reason he made it in. I don't think Marvel's in a hurry to bring in tv show stuff and risk confusing a section of the audience (that's Lucasfilm's job  :lol:)

Case in point: we now know that Shang-Chi will feature the Ten Rings and indeed, the real Mandarin, a plot point that's been in limbo since 2014, from yet another Blu-Ray short, that a good chunk of the audience has probably never seen and might not even know exists (I didn't even end up seeing it until a year or two ago). By doing the plot in Shang-Chi, which will start brand new characters anyway, you can sidestep that issue. Just like how the Red Skull scene in Infinity War totally works without ever actually mentioning him being the Red Skull (unlike Endgame where Hawkeye for some reason does't recognize the famous Nazi war criminal for some reason).

On a different note, I actually didn't think of this until last night, but I wonder about the new Thor movie: 1) Who will the villain(s) be? I think, considering the apparently return to focus on romance, Enchantress could make a lot of sense. 2) Will Loki be in this one? Because if not, a Thor movie without Loki would be missing a big part of why people watched those movies in the first place.

On yet another note:

Zemo's back and this time he's wearing his freaking mask! And Taskmasker is going to be in the Black Widow movie! Yeah baby yeah!

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Well, following in Marvel's intensely stupid footsteps, apparently Jane Foster is going to be taking over, not as the Goddess of Thunder, Thunderstrike, or any other appropriate name, but as "Thor," the personal name, the first name of Thor-freaking-Odinson.  It's so stupid that it makes my brain hurt.  So, I'm guessing that's going to put a different spin on things.  A female thunder goddess is fine, and given what they've done to Thor, I'd have no problem with that, but you can't name her Thor, because that's a name, not a title:banghead:

Sorry, this kind of stupidity gets under my skin.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Tomato

It's not as simple as that in the comics, and I'll reserve judgement until I see the film. Frankly, I'm more concerned that they're using the same actress... No offense, she was ok in the first two films, but I don't see her pulling off the Amazonian looking Jane Foster Thor from the comics.

Back to the name... From what I understand, it was a dread pirate Roberts situation. When she did take up the name (because before that it was just what people were calling her and she didn't want to be called that) it was because Thor asked her to continue doing heroics in his name for reasons related to the story.

BentonGrey

Pontificate away if you want, DJ!  :)

'Mato, I am not judging the film itself and, in fact, given what they've done to Thor himself, replacing the character with pretty much anybody else makes me more receptive to them continuing the story.  I didn't know they tried to explain it in the comics, but that's still sorta' weaksauce.  It's just stupid for her to go by "Thor."  It's like Pepper taking over as Iron Man and going by Tony or Babs taking over the cowl and going by Bruce.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

catwhowalksbyhimself

Quote from: BentonGrey on July 25, 2019, 09:59:48 PM
It's like Pepper taking over as Iron Man and going by Tony or Babs taking over the cowl and going by Bruce.

I don't like her taking his name either, but you comparison makes zero sense. Thor's real name IS his hero name.  They are one and the same.  The example you gave are nothing like that.  The Iron Man identity and name and the Batman one as well are separate from the person names, so passing them down does not make it necessary to pass on the personal name too.  Thor's superhero name IS his personal name.  He can't pass on his heroic identity to someone else without them using it.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Tomato

See, I specifically used the Dread Pirate Roberts comparison because I felt it most appropriate in this instance. In the context of Princess Bride, there was very likely an original Dread Pirate Roberts, and Roberts was presumably his actual name. His successors took on the name because they realized that the name is what's important. "No one would surrender to the Dread Pirate Westley" and so too would no one surrender to the Mighty Jane, at least no one in Thor's general weight class. As cat correctly points out, the name is both his real name AND his superhero identity. And there have been other Thors before now: Beta Ray Bill WAS the main protagonist under the Thor title, as was Erik Masterson. And Erik was *absolutely* called Thor by the public (it's why he changes his costume to that 90s getup he had after Thor came back).

"Whosoever hold this hammer, if (s)he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor." -in the context of the original Lee comic, that meant Donald Blake becoming Thor Odinson. It may not be as literal now, but I don't see any difference between Jane doing good in Thor's name temporarily and Dick doing good in Batman's. Or, and I cannot stress this enough, Erik and Beta Ray Bill doing good in Thor's name with Thor's own powers.

And if it's about the fact that she didn't move on to a different identity after Thor inevitably returned like Beta Ray and Erik did... she has. She's become one of the Valkyrie. And with all but one being dead ATM due to what we learn in Ragnarok, I can see them going in that direction here as well.

BentonGrey

#829
Quote from: Deaths Jester on July 26, 2019, 12:07:35 AM
<points Benton to the parts wherein he said he had way, way too much on his place nor the time> See my previous post, BG!
Darn, and here I was hoping to provoke DJ into getting back involved more!  :P  Glad to see you around nonetheless, you undead scoundrel. 

Cat, I disagree.  It's far from a perfect analogy, but I think the point is valid.  It's just clearer in their cases because, as you say, their nom de guerre is different from their personal name.  Yet, those are, effectively, their titles, and Thor also has a title, God of Thunder, though it is not his adventuring name.  It's the title, and powers, that a new character inherits, as it is the title that Dick inherits from Batman, etc.  'Mato points out that Erik Masterson went by Thor for a while, but wasn't he actually bonded WITH Thor during that time?  Jane should follow the example of that great amphibian hero, Throg, and be Jhor.  ;)
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/throg/4005-30596/

Also, I sorta' want to read some 'Frog of Thunder' stories now....

Anyway, the whole thing just seems intensely silly to me, whatever justification is used for it in universe. 

In terms of the movie itself, it's interesting that they're sticking with Natalie Portman in the next movie.  I sorta' thought she wasn't interested in doing more Marvel movies.  I suppose a chance to be the heroine instead of the love interest changes things some.  It's a crying shame they killed off Anthony Hopkins' Odin (for many reasons), but it would have been really cool to see him interact with her in light of their little mini-arc from Dark World.

Kommando, nice to see you around.  Glad you enjoyed Homecoming!  You didn't get the sense that it broke from the feel of a Spidey story during some of the big, globetrotting, jet-flying moments?  I enjoyed it plenty, but I definitely felt like it struck a note that didn't resonate with Spidey for me.  Holland, however, was very much Spider-Man, even in those scenes.

You're friends with Moorcock?  How cool!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Silver Shocker

#830
QuoteSo guys, I know this is super out of date at this point, but I've been going through some of those Pitch Meeting videos, and I just watched the Thor: Ragnarok one.  It's hilariuos and a pretty much perfect send-up of everything wrong with that movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2kl4cVc5Dw

I feel somewhat vindicated.

So Benton, I know this is super out of date at this point, but ended up in a sketch-comedy-on-Youtube mood tonight and I finally got around to watching the Pitch Meeting video for Thor: Ragnarok. Yep, you're right, it's pretty much a perfect send-up of everything wrong with that movie.

Letting Jeff Goldblum be Jeff Goldblum as a substitute for actually developing the Grandmaster as a character...yeah, pretty much. I mean, mind you, you could pretty much say the same thing about Grandmaster's fellow Elder of the Universe, The Collector, just being Benicio Del Toro in Guardians. Hmm, considering Thor:R seemed to take after Guardians for the comedy, maybe that's why they ended up going that route?
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

SickAlice

#831
I honestly haven't given much thought to Jane Thor movie. Too far in the horizon to think about it and I'm trying to just absorb what they had made so far and develop a sense of nostalgia towards it. I do give them credit if they are really giving Portman some ample screen time. Love her or loath her Disney does have a good takeaway from her two franchises over and sort of owes her the chance. "If" keyword. Could be a whole five minutes of the film, could be later things change even or she changes her mind about it, it's happened before, again who knows right now.

If they chose to franchise the comic idea I wouldn't blame them either. Stan Lee once said about Ben Reilly "The only thing that sells better than one Spider-man is two of them." which is more relevant in this era I think. Also I think the days of character stake claiming are long past regardless of any feels about it. If Bruce Wayne becomes Superman in canon next month I would raise an eyebrow but wouldn't think twice about it, switcheroo has just become as common in superhero comics as capes are now. I dunno, read the current comic issues? There was something like eight to ten different Thors happening there. And Jane is Valkerie now or something, got to switch your cosplay up every now and then don't ya know.

Either way the next Thor movie just isn't in my solar system right now so eh? I'm also too busy dreaming about a Captain Marvel 2 that takes place in the past after the first and deals with Carol meeting Jessica Jones as Jewel and such. I can dream and will continue to enjoy my headcanon over what ever they really make. Not to say I won't enjoy what they do but like anyone I have this pretty specific to me version of everything laid out in my imagination space and nothing in real life ever matches it.

"In death, a member of Project Thor has a name. His name is Robert Paulson."
Sorry I had to. I regret nothing. Well okay somethings. Everything mostly. I regret everything.

murs47

I'm mostly just worried about Portman not being able to pull off comedy relief as well as Hemsworth.  I don't care who wields Mjolnir, just be as entertaining as Ragnarok por favor.

Tomato

Don't believe everything you hear. The reported dispute was specifically about Kevin Feige producing the next film, with Disney trying to use that to extort a RIDICULOUS 50/50 split of all profits on the next film. Sony said no, and it's got everyone in a panic over the whole arrangement. However, there are some sources that claim the next Spider-Man film IS still part of the MCU (the contract stipulated it'd continue to a third film if the second made over a billion... it did), and even if it's not... right now, who cares? On the Marvel side, the next films are Black Widow, Eternals, Shang Chi, Dr Strange 2, and Thor 4. None of those films need or should have Spider-Man. And on the Sony front, they've got Morbius, Venom 2, and some other films coming right now. By all accounts negotiations are ongoing, so both sides have time to resolve this before the third SM (if they even need to do so, I'm not 100% on that source.) or Avengers 5 goes into production.

This whole thing, all of it, is a publicity stunt by Disney. They made an outrageous offer, it got rejected, and then leaked proceedings to the press to whip the fanbase into a frenzy and force Sony's hand.

Tomato

What? I don't... Spade, I listed all the upcoming MCU films for the next two years to demonstrate that SM isn't needed for any of them.  I didn't use Eternals as an example of anything else, nor was that film specifically singled out in any way. It's not even the first I listed.

Tomato

Credit for kkhohoho on this one, he brought it to my attention.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/ms-marvel-series-works-disney-1234216 -ms marvel show coming to Disney+

SickAlice

I'm with Tomato here. Things change fast for one and there's a difference between what is truth and what is presentation. Not that long ago we would have been on a comic forum saying Spider-man could never have been in a Disney film because of red tape yet it happened and almost overnight, thus can happen again. Mostly and the same goes for the Hulk it's a tug of war about more money but in reality Sony is no position to make demands, they're media outlet is hurting. But corporate types just don't think like that. When they were losing they made the deal but once Endgame came about they saw profit thus got demanding again. Same goes for Fox here as well. Any company really, it's the way stocks and shares actually work. Think like Ferengi and Rules Of Acquisition. And when it comes to worldwide household products art has less to do with it and the money people have the final say.

Add a pride issue. Toy's R Us is a great example, I used to work for that company. It's "went bankrupt" as anyone now knows but the truth is it was bankrupt two decades ago. They could have preserved it by being a distributor given the popularity of online ordering increasing rapidly or just for a large outlet like Wal-Mart yet they ran it all into the ground out of pride. In the end they tried having us set up kids barbers, no joke, just to try and make the ends meet. That's why they went out. Compare it to comics. Say Image folded, the market just got so bad and they couldn't afford their own overhead. The option would be to sell to a more stable and expansive entity, say DC Comics and Warner Bros. But you know well they would fight that tooth and nail even if it meant burning their own house to the ground because simply it is their child. They created this and it's hard not to have pride in that as much ones own achievements.

Anyways in short I have no doubt the MCU will have these characters in it but they just can't announce that legally right now lest the shareholders retaliate. It's just not profitable for any of these companies to refuse to play ball but it is a matter of a contract every team is satisfied with is all.

Silver Shocker

#837
It's an entire month and change too late, but the Jameson thing was discussed earlier in this thread prior to that above post. For those wondering, the reason why it's coming up again is Sony's been releasing some internet videos starring Jameson.

Who, by the way, supposedly is going to appear in Sony's Morbius the Living Vampire (starring Jared Leto as Morbius - yes this is a real movie) I'm like "sure, why not, I mean, I'm probably not even going to watch it until at least the On-Demand release, but whatever. It'll have at least one thing going for it. "

Also I saw Dark Phoenix a few months ago. It wasn't easy, because Disney blocked it from being released on the On-Demand, or the Playstation Store, after they got the distribution rights so I had to rent it from Youtube of all places, but I did see it.
I didn't think it was terrible (though I'm biased towards this series) but it certainly wasn't good. The word to describe it is "joyless." There are no jokes, no gags, no Quicksilver setpieces (Quicksilver is absent for about 80% of the film) and the traditional F-Bomb isn't even played for laughs this time. And the big surprise they left out of the trailers was supposedly neutered by behind the scenes issues. Of which this movie had a lot. Not surprisingly, but still heartbreaking. They took a loss on Apocalypse so they didn't have enough money, the Fox deal was going through so they had to wrap up the story fast, cut out and change a bunch of stuff so they could release it Justice League style. The one interesting new element we haven't seen before (outside of spoilers, and other than the brief outer space sequence) is lip service to the old "Professor Xavier is a jerk" angle that pops up in the comics from time to time.

For whatever it's worth, Chris Claremont praised the film on the merits that it put Scott and Jean to the forefront. Which, hey, if you leave out Wolverine, then yeah, that'll happen.

A list of things that tragically never came to pass:
-For starters, they were going to spend more than one movie telling the Phoenix Saga. And also way more outer space.
-A deleted appearance by original Colossus actor Daniel Cudmore (we apparently don't know who or what he was going to play)
-The ending would have been reshot to have more X-Men take part, but it was deemed too expensive (instead we got the train sequence, in which the mutants are being carried away by the Mutant Containment Unit (and yes, that does abbreviate to MCU and no, it's not a coincidence.)
-The original ending was scrapped because it was believed to be too similar to another recent superhero film (the popular guess was Captain Marvel, but Kinberg eventually said it was Civil War. Yep, we could have had X-Men: Civil War)
-Jessica Chastian was originally going to play a different character (I'm not going to say who since her role in the movie is spoiler, but if you're curious you can look it up).
-Jackman was supposed to be in it as Wolverine, but they opted not to do that because they didn't want him interacting with a teenage Jean Grey (even though that happened in Apocalypse, but whatever)
-Psylocke and Jubilee were supposed to appear but Olivia Munn was doing Predator and Lana Condor was doing a movie at the time. Lana did get a spiffy new comic book gig though: the short lived Sci-Fi Adaptation of "Deadly Class".

Truly, the Fox X-Men franchise went out with a whimper. Oh well, Legion was aces at least.  :thumbup:

Also, anyone hear heard the speculation about Wandavision? I'm going to put it in Spoiler Tags because even though I don't know 100% if it's gonna happen it's looking pretty likely and it's the kinda thing some people will probably enjoy being surprised by.

SERIOUSLY, IF HAVEN'T HEARD THE THEORY YET, AND YOU'RE DEAD SET ON BEING SURPRISED BY BIG MCU STUFF IN THE FUTURE DO NOT READ THIS!!!

Spoiler


Here's what we know:
-Wandavision is a partial adaptation of Tom King's "Vision" series, but with Wanda and a now alive Vision as the family unit.
-It's coming out very close to the release of Doctor Strange: The Multiverse of Madness.
-Scarlet Witch is in DR. Strange 2.
-Loki's in it too.

Here's what we think is going to happen:

Wandavision is also the MCU's adaptation of "Scarlet Witch goes evil and starts warping reality with her powers to make babies, bring people back to live, ect" AND she's the villain of Dr. Strange 2. And apparently Dr. Strange teams up with Loki to stop her.

And of course, those kids in the comics eventually became members of the Young Avengers. And who knows, maybe the long-speculated Quicksilver reappearance will finally happen.

I hope this turns out to be true, because if so this is going to be nuttier than pecan pie!

I can safely say I'm looking forward to Legion season 4 - I mean "Wandavision" when it finally comes out.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

SickAlice

I'm glad to see the X-Men franchise conclude on that end honestly. They did great things with it but it's been a rocky relationship at best. If anything with Disney's resources they may be able to reach higher plateaus with it and we could end up seeing things finally that fans have been eager to.

Silver Shocker

Tessa Thompson (Valkyrie) has confirmed that Christian Bale will playing a villain in Thor 4.

Haters gonna hate, and yes, we've all made of his Batman voice, but IMO Bale has been a pretty reliably great actor with some really good movies under his belt (Equilibrium, for example; I've also heard he was really good in Ford v. Ferrari recently)
My concern isn't whether he'll be good in the movie. My concern is who the heck is he going to play? The Thor movies have already burned through pretty much all the Thor villains other than Amora the Enchantress (who, as I've mentioned earlier, I'm expecting to be in "Thor: Love and Thunder" anyway). Some have speculated that he might play a non-Thor villain who happens to be appearing in Thor, which is a real possibility and might be their remaining option. Some have even suggested Doctor Doom, which certainly be interesting but it would be pretty bizarre for him to appear in a Thor movie of all places.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa