STAR WARS: Episode VII - The Force Awakens

Started by Shogunn2517, November 06, 2014, 08:51:17 PM

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Talavar

Quote from: catwhowalksbyhimself on December 15, 2015, 10:49:15 PM
Early critic reviews are in and they are overwhelmingly positive.  It seems like a large number of critics and ranking it as the 3rd best in the franchise, and just about all seems to compare it to the original trilogy rather than the prequels.

Sounds like we may be in for a treat.

Let's hope.  By 3rd best I assume they mean better than the prequels (an easy bar to clear) and Jedi, but worse than Empire and Star Wars.  Not the worst place to be.

JeyNyce

On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers.  If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!
I don't call for tech support, I AM TECH SUPPORT!
It's the internet, don't take it personal!

Shogunn2517

Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers.  If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!

LMAO!

But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2.  Like Empire and then this.  Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless.  But I trust Abrams.  I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me.  They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.

18 hours to go...

Talavar

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 17, 2015, 06:01:55 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers.  If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!

LMAO!

But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2.  Like Empire and then this.  Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless.  But I trust Abrams.  I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me.  They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.

18 hours to go...

I saw the film tonight, and I enjoyed it -the first JJ Abrams anything I've really liked- but it's definitely not top 2.  I'd put it right between the original trilogy and the prequels in quality myself, though closer to the original 3.  So are we saying no spoilers even in spoiler tags?

Shogunn2517

Quote from: Talavar on December 18, 2015, 04:26:30 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 17, 2015, 06:01:55 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers.  If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!

LMAO!

But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2.  Like Empire and then this.  Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless.  But I trust Abrams.  I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me.  They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.

18 hours to go...

I saw the film tonight, and I enjoyed it -the first JJ Abrams anything I've really liked- but it's definitely not top 2.  I'd put it right between the original trilogy and the prequels in quality myself, though closer to the original 3.  So are we saying no spoilers even in spoiler tags?

I'm with you on this.  I'll go with the spoiler tags.

Spoiler
There was quite a bit to digest.  A lot to unpack.  I did like it.  The action was good, the characters were interesting and endearing.  Extremely.  And it was a fun ride.  I do have to say, I'm not sure it's the lack of attached nostalgia or the fact that I'm coming in about as ignorant of others, or maybe I'm just getting old, but something seemed... off.  Or for some particular reason I'm not as attached to this film as I am the others, including the prequels.

I mean the prequels had a level of familiarity that the original trilogy did.  I knew the story.  I knew where it was going.  I knew Anakin and Padme would have twins.  I knew the Empire would rise from the Republic.  I knew all the Jedi would get killed.  I even knew Obi-Wan would beat Anakin, easily, on a planet full of lava.  I knew all that at least a decade before it happened.  But here this was a blank slate.  30 years of Star Wars happened and it's unfamiliar territory.  There are the basics, the fragments they told us.  After Endor, Luke tried to restore the Jedi Order, with his nephew being one of those learners until he turns and destroys what Luke built and joins Snoke, who starts the First Order from the remnants of the Empire.  And the First Order is being opposed by the Resistance, which is being supported by the New Republic.  There's a lot that happened in 30 years.  And it seems as if I missed at least a movie or two to tell all of that.  And this movie isn't picking up where the last one(Ep6) ends, but it's a different story. 

Anyway, the movie itself hit a lot of familiar patterns.  the first 20-30 minutes were a bit of a carbon copy of Episode 4.  The Empire/First Order attacking a rebel/resistance outpost, capturing a key rebel/resistance figure while that figure's droid gets away with critical information.  And the youthful force sensitive that finds the droid leaves his/her desert planet to fight the Empire/First Order and you know there's more to tell about his/her parentage.  Oh and like every 1st movie of a trilogy a lead character dies.  Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and now Han Solo.  It's a little disappointing, but not too unexpected.  As far as the rest of the movie goes, I think I loved all of the characters.  All of the actors/actresses did a good job.  It was nice to see more familiar faces, Ackbar, Nein Nunb. Overall I was happy with the film.  Just some things stuck out that bothered me.  How is Finn an expert with a lightsaber?  Rey I guess it can be explained, still a little weird though.  But I just can't shake that feeling of I missed soooo much they didn't show.  Like watching a television series and missing like a month of episodes in the middle of the season.

JeyNyce

I don't call for tech support, I AM TECH SUPPORT!
It's the internet, don't take it personal!

Talavar

Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 18, 2015, 12:09:19 PM
Quote from: Talavar on December 18, 2015, 04:26:30 AM
Quote from: Shogunn2517 on December 17, 2015, 06:01:55 AM
Quote from: JeyNyce on December 15, 2015, 11:11:10 PM
On a side note guys, we all know the rules. Out of respect for other (others meaning ME) don't not post any spoilers.  If you do I will go to your house and rip up your X-men comics!!

LMAO!

But I'm hearing the buzz and I'm hearing not top 3, but top 2.  Like Empire and then this.  Honestly, my expectations are high, but it's Star Wars and there's no way for my expectations to be anything but and though I'm sure I'll like it regardless.  But I trust Abrams.  I am not a Star Trek fan, but in my opinion, the two he did MADE Star Trek actually interesting to me.  They were epic and gripping and so much fan and I expect nothing less from this, but this is Star Wars so it connects to me on another level.

18 hours to go...

I saw the film tonight, and I enjoyed it -the first JJ Abrams anything I've really liked- but it's definitely not top 2.  I'd put it right between the original trilogy and the prequels in quality myself, though closer to the original 3.  So are we saying no spoilers even in spoiler tags?

I'm with you on this.  I'll go with the spoiler tags.

Spoiler
There was quite a bit to digest.  A lot to unpack.  I did like it.  The action was good, the characters were interesting and endearing.  Extremely.  And it was a fun ride.  I do have to say, I'm not sure it's the lack of attached nostalgia or the fact that I'm coming in about as ignorant of others, or maybe I'm just getting old, but something seemed... off.  Or for some particular reason I'm not as attached to this film as I am the others, including the prequels.

I mean the prequels had a level of familiarity that the original trilogy did.  I knew the story.  I knew where it was going.  I knew Anakin and Padme would have twins.  I knew the Empire would rise from the Republic.  I knew all the Jedi would get killed.  I even knew Obi-Wan would beat Anakin, easily, on a planet full of lava.  I knew all that at least a decade before it happened.  But here this was a blank slate.  30 years of Star Wars happened and it's unfamiliar territory.  There are the basics, the fragments they told us.  After Endor, Luke tried to restore the Jedi Order, with his nephew being one of those learners until he turns and destroys what Luke built and joins Snoke, who starts the First Order from the remnants of the Empire.  And the First Order is being opposed by the Resistance, which is being supported by the New Republic.  There's a lot that happened in 30 years.  And it seems as if I missed at least a movie or two to tell all of that.  And this movie isn't picking up where the last one(Ep6) ends, but it's a different story. 

Anyway, the movie itself hit a lot of familiar patterns.  the first 20-30 minutes were a bit of a carbon copy of Episode 4.  The Empire/First Order attacking a rebel/resistance outpost, capturing a key rebel/resistance figure while that figure's droid gets away with critical information.  And the youthful force sensitive that finds the droid leaves his/her desert planet to fight the Empire/First Order and you know there's more to tell about his/her parentage.  Oh and like every 1st movie of a trilogy a lead character dies.  Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan and now Han Solo.  It's a little disappointing, but not too unexpected.  As far as the rest of the movie goes, I think I loved all of the characters.  All of the actors/actresses did a good job.  It was nice to see more familiar faces, Ackbar, Nein Nunb. Overall I was happy with the film.  Just some things stuck out that bothered me.  How is Finn an expert with a lightsaber?  Rey I guess it can be explained, still a little weird though.  But I just can't shake that feeling of I missed soooo much they didn't show.  Like watching a television series and missing like a month of episodes in the middle of the season.

Spoilers! 
Spoiler
I did really enjoy the movie, and the new cast are great.  Poe, Finn Kylo Ren and Rey are all really excellent new characters, and portrayed very well by their respective actors, and I'm looking forward to their further adventures.  There's actual humour again, unlike that stuff the prequels tried to pass off as humour.  There is believable, emotional weight to why Han & Leia split, and why Han went back to smuggling.  The weakest point is the actual plot.  In many ways it's a Greatest Hits album of the original trilogy, and I would have liked a more original story.  Hopefully we'll get that in the follow ups. 

Personally, I really like the mystery.  I was too young to see the original trilogy as they came out, so for me all the plot points could be resolved in a day.  The prequels didn't really have any mystery: we knew where they were going, and they went there with very little that was unexpected.  I like not knowing what's up with Rey and her family yet.  Or why Kylo Ren went to the dark side.  Who is the Supreme Leader?  Or the old man at the beginning who had Luke's map?  I'm curious about all of these details, and for the first time with Star Wars I don't know, and can't easily find out.  It's exciting.

Minor quibbles: they could have at least let Luke have a line.  And Captain Phasma wishes she was the Boba Fett of this movie.  He at least died like a chump.  She doesn't really do anything.

detourne_me

Fantastic movie! It made my wife actually want to watch the originals and prequels.  People were clapping during our screening tonight, and she really got into it. Could understand the cultural phenomenon that it is.

Spoilers below!
Spoiler
i really think Captain Phasma will be the Lando of the new movies, not Fett. She's got a relationship with Finn that could be explored further. Why does she have a name, what sets her apart from the other stormtroopers. There's definitely some behind the scenes stuff going on here with the First Order

Reepicheep

So good! So good! I couldn't believe what a relief it was to watch a good Star Wars movie.

Spoiler
They NAILED C3PO's introduction. He was one of my favourite characters in the sequels, and they just wrecked him in the prequels. So nice to have him back properly.

"Why! It's captain solo! It is I, C3PO. You may not have recognised me because of my red arm."

Shogunn2517

Quote from: Reepicheep on December 19, 2015, 12:50:44 AM
So good! So good! I couldn't believe what a relief it was to watch a good Star Wars movie.

Spoiler
They NAILED C3PO's introduction. He was one of my favourite characters in the sequels, and they just wrecked him in the prequels. So nice to have him back properly.

"Why! It's captain solo! It is I, C3PO. You may not have recognised me because of my red arm."

I know that was sooo dope!

Silver Shocker

I just saw it. It's good.....all of it.

Spoiler
Yeah the movie is like a greatest hits reel or a kind of remake of the original, but that's what I was expecting. I was a little disappointed that Luke didn't show until the end and doesn't even get to speak. I guess we'll just have to wait until the next one.

It was a little sad that they killed Han, but I was pretty much expecting it. Harrison Ford was great in it though. Lots of fun lines and jokes. I enjoyed seeing him try out Chewie's bowcaster, but I'm kinda surprised it took him so many years (decades!) before ever trying it. It does show the love and creativity the creators have for Star Wars. I can just imagine them in a meeting room coming up with that.

Saw it in 3D and the 3D was actually pretty good. There was a great shot where a Star Destroyer (or whatever they call them these days) is jutting out at the viewer. I really liked that every returning character and famous piece of iconography got a good reveal, the shot at very beginning of the Star Destroyer blocking out the sun/planet? Brilliant.

C3P0's bit was cute. Felt very in character for him. 
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

#41
www.theouthousers.com/index.php/news/134049-superman-writer-says-star-wars-character-is-mary-sue-internet-explodes-spoilers.html?utm_content=buffer24418&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
Twitter wars about the movie continue.Anyone remembers when comic writers and artists didnt feel obliged to share their thoughts about movies and gun control?Me neither...
Ofc they have every right to comment whatever they like,but it doesnt have make news.Anywhere else then The Outhouse.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BWPS

#42
"A woman who is good at two things?!! This is clearly bad writing!"

<_< People are garbage. The Force Awakens is the best movie ever in large part because Rey is awesome.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

HarryTrotter

#43
Well she does
Spoiler
master the Force pretty fast with no previous training,on her own,in first try.Just saying...
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

detourne_me

But the subtitle of the movie is named after her. It's pretty apparent that
Spoiler
Rey is the new Luke
. The other thing that people keep forgetting about Rey is:
Spoiler
she's also a fangirl, the same way Luke really wanted to go to the pilot academy, Rey probably grew up dreaming about Star Wars, especially the rebel alliance.  She knew all about Han Solo as a smuggler, she keeps a busted X-Wing pilot helmet for fun, and knew all the legends of the Jedi.  She only tapped into the force so quick after Kylo Ren awoke it in her, then she tried to do all the tricks she read about.  It seems like Luke had never heard of Jedi before, so he really needed every bit of training. Rey was already an accomplished fighter and survivor from having to fend for herself for ten years, now she had the power to back up her hopes and dreams she's thought of for so long.

HarryTrotter

Quote from: detourne_me on December 23, 2015, 07:06:24 PM
But the subtitle of the movie is named after her. It's pretty apparent that
Spoiler
Rey is the new Luke
. The other thing that people keep forgetting about Rey is:
Spoiler
she's also a fangirl, the same way Luke really wanted to go to the pilot academy, Rey probably grew up dreaming about Star Wars, especially the rebel alliance.  She knew all about Han Solo as a smuggler, she keeps a busted X-Wing pilot helmet for fun, and knew all the legends of the Jedi.  She only tapped into the force so quick after Kylo Ren awoke it in her, then she tried to do all the tricks she read about.  It seems like Luke had never heard of Jedi before, so he really needed every bit of training. Rey was already an accomplished fighter and survivor from having to fend for herself for ten years, now she had the power to back up her hopes and dreams she's thought of for so long.
Knowing about it and doing it are very different things.
Basically,she goes from not knowing
Spoiler
shes Force sensitive to using Force Persuasion in (almost) a few minutes.That my friend,is not a simple trick.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Reepicheep

Quote from: Spade on December 23, 2015, 07:27:46 PM
Quote from: detourne_me on December 23, 2015, 07:06:24 PM
But the subtitle of the movie is named after her. It's pretty apparent that
Spoiler
Rey is the new Luke
. The other thing that people keep forgetting about Rey is:
Spoiler
she's also a fangirl, the same way Luke really wanted to go to the pilot academy, Rey probably grew up dreaming about Star Wars, especially the rebel alliance.  She knew all about Han Solo as a smuggler, she keeps a busted X-Wing pilot helmet for fun, and knew all the legends of the Jedi.  She only tapped into the force so quick after Kylo Ren awoke it in her, then she tried to do all the tricks she read about.  It seems like Luke had never heard of Jedi before, so he really needed every bit of training. Rey was already an accomplished fighter and survivor from having to fend for herself for ten years, now she had the power to back up her hopes and dreams she's thought of for so long.
Knowing about it and doing it are very different things.
Basically,she goes from not knowing
Spoiler
shes Force sensitive to using Force Persuasion in (almost) a few minutes.That my friend,is not a simple trick.

Spoiler
Star Wars has a habit of doing things at the speed of plot. I'd bet there's explanations to come as to why she picked it up so quickly, but for most part I'd just let it slide that she taught herself some techniques so that we could get on with the story.

daglob


Shogunn2517

I'm agreeing with Slade here.

Spoiler
She said she thought the Jedi was a myth.  That doesn't mean she knew the things they did.  I would imagine that if she just thought they were a myth and not actually existed, this must mean the Emperor must have banned and destroyed any and all sources of information on the Jedi.  I mean, Nazi Germany existed as far back for me as the Jedi does for Rey.  I can open up a history book and read about them.  I know they existed.  She just thinks they're a myth.  For her to think that she cannot confirm that they actually existed.  More than that though, it's one thing to be able to FEEL the Force and another thing to be able to USE the Force.  Her being able to feel the Force can explain her proficiency piloting and even fighting.  But without being trained it's hard to imagine her being able to use a Jedi Mind Trick and to Force pull objects for something she really didn't know existed until a day earlier.  Granted, detourne, you might have a point, but it's hard to imagine.  Especially when you look at Luke who had four years to learn a Force pull when he was trapped in an ice cave in ESB and he was barely able to do it.  But Rey was able to master a pull(from a trained Force user) in a matter of hours?

At the end of the day, it could all be possible that she was a fanboy(girl) and knew of the things the Jedi could do and tried to do what she knew they could or it also could be that she learned a lot of this stuff prior to Kylo Ren's destroying the order, which prompted Luke to place a block on her memory and to leave her so he wouldn't screw up her life like he screwed up Ben's... but they should have done a better job of explaining that and not just waiting to do it in another movie.

But speaking of which...

Spoiler
Not sure if any of you play Infinities, but with their release of their The Force Awakens set, they might have released a spoiler that only Disney could know...  Listen for yourself(at about 20:30 in...)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNXRZd5vkdo

It definitely sounds as if Kylo Ren(Ben Solo, the son of Leia) said to Rey "Face me, cousin."  That would mean her father has to be Luke... or a Force Sensitive brother of Han i guess.

BWPS

Spoiler
My two theories were that Rey's mother or father was a child of Vader's. Though he was all burned up and stuff it's possible he could have had more children later. That's a better theory since his lightsaber called to her and this Disney Infinity thing (which could easily be a trick like they do).

My other theory is that she's Palpatine's granddaughter. I think that would just be cool.


Either way, having an evil grandfather would explain why she was sold to the junkman.

But hey I'm sure they have some kind of reveal and I don't usually like to speculate so nevermind.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

Silver Shocker

Shogun,

Spoiler
it's been confirmed that the line is "Face me. [after getting hit] Curses!"
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

JeyNyce

Finally saw the movie today and it was awesome.  I saw on Facebook that they are letting people post spoilers, so I was wondering if you guys wanted to start posting spoilers, without the tags, or do you want to continue just the way it is now?  Thanks!
I don't call for tech support, I AM TECH SUPPORT!
It's the internet, don't take it personal!

catwhowalksbyhimself

It just hit the 1 billion mark and shows no sign of stopping any time soon.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

JeyNyce

I have a question:

Who was the hero of this movie??  The commercials had Finn as the hero, as him being the Jedi and hanging with Han & Chewie, but in the end Rey did it all.  Where does that leaves Finn?
I don't call for tech support, I AM TECH SUPPORT!
It's the internet, don't take it personal!

Talavar

Quote from: JeyNyce on December 27, 2015, 10:28:55 PM
I have a question:

Who was the hero of this movie??  The commercials had Finn as the hero, as him being the Jedi and hanging with Han & Chewie, but in the end Rey did it all.  Where does that leaves Finn?

Who is the hero of the original Star Wars?  Ostensibly Luke, but Han and Leia are both important.  Same deal here.

hoss20

Quote from: JeyNyce on December 26, 2015, 05:20:25 AM
Finally saw the movie today and it was awesome.  I saw on Facebook that they are letting people post spoilers, so I was wondering if you guys wanted to start posting spoilers, without the tags, or do you want to continue just the way it is now?  Thanks!

I know that everyone has their own opinions regarding spoilers, but being that the movie has only just started its second week; I would have to say that we should continue with tags. I've always felt, that at a minimum, spoiler tags should be used while a movie is still in theatres.

BentonGrey

I was a tremendous Star Wars fan when I was a kid.  These movies were the medium of my imaginative awakening, serving for me as George McDonald's books did for C.S. Lewis.  I watched the original films endlessly, and I read every Star Wars book I could get my hands on until I got to high school.  I read the Guide to the Star Wars Universe from cover to cover so often I can still remember vast amounts of information about fictional technologies, places, and peoples.  I was a bit of a fan, is what I am saying.  Today, Luke Skywalker remains my favorite fictional character, though I toned down the Star Wars obsession as I got older.  So, there was a lot at stake for me in this film. 

We saw Star Wars today, and I have fought all year not to get too invested and to keep my expectations pretty low.  Because of that, I enjoyed it fairly well, but I felt myself grow more and more frustrated as the film drew to a close.  It's an entertaining movie, but flawed in several ways, some significant, some not.  It is, I suppose, very much par for the course for J.J. Abrams, as it is all show and no stay.  I will say that folks who are ranking it above any of the original trilogy are objectively wrong.

It accomplished what it set out to do: get the franchise out of the trainwreck that was the Prequels and set up a new trilogy.  It didn't do it with particular grace, but with plenty of style.

Here are my thoughts:

As a film, it is unable to stand purely on its own merits
Spoiler
as it recreates, in almost every scene and detail, the plot of Star Wars: A New Hope.  That means that, while the movie is decent, as a movie, it owes many of its best moments and overall feel to a better film.

It is also, like Star Trek 2 before it, a perfect example of an Abram's film's tendency to be riddled with, if not plot holes, extreme contrivances, coincidences, and missing necessary exposition.  These are all signs of sloppy writing, aside from how well the film evokes the franchise.

As a Star Wars film, it captures the feel of the action from the original trilogy, you get some good character moments like the originals as well, and the cast is vastly superior to the films-that-shall-not-be-named.  Of course, that's not saying much, as I've seen school plays that outshine those cinematic crimes.  On the other hand, throughout the film, I felt like I was watching fan-fiction with an extremely high budget.  There was an imperfect understanding of the universe, concepts, and technologies of Star Wars.

Spoiler
The clearest example of this, and one I understand a lot of folks are talking about, is the character Rey and how quickly and effortlessly she grows into her roll.

The greatest weakness is the new Dark Jedi.  My thoughts about Kylo Ren can be best summed up by this utterly perfect fake Twitter account:
Emo Kylo Ren:
https://twitter.com/kylor3n?lang=en
(Note: There ARE spoilers in there)

Spoiler
Instead of a mighty villain, we get an angsty, whiny kid with no actual motivation or sense of purpose.

He's not the only poorly developed character (Finn), but he certainly does the most damage to the film


I like the new characters, and they are promising for future adventures.  They need another film to get developed, apparently. 

There is more I could say, but that covers the highlights.  I'll post a more thorough review soon.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

HarryTrotter

I have to agree about the Kylo Ren part.
Once he
Spoiler
takes off the Revan-evoking mask,he loses all credibility.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Reepicheep

#59
Kylo Ren:
Spoiler
I will hugely disagree about Kylo Ren. I really, really liked him as a character. You could see from his opening shot that he was insecure and trying to live up to his hero. In his interactions with the other imperials, nobody takes him very seriously and his tantrums are clearly commonplace. I'm actually really glad that we got a very angsty, weaker villain instead of another mighty mighty dark jedi. The prequels made me more than a little bored of sith in the 'big bad' role. I feel like he's a better demonstration of what the dark side can do to a person's mind than Darth Vader or the Emperor ever was - powerful, but on very feeble foundations.

But then, I don't like my heroes or villains to be awesome.

When he took off his helmet, I was like: "yeah, that's totally what he should look like." He looks like a kid that was bullied and outcast at school. You could instantly see that there is personal strife behind him.

Yeah, Spade. He reminded me a lot of Revan aesthetically. But I'm glad he wasn't the same Military Genius character that Revan was.

We still clearly have another big bad in the supreme leader fellow.

I think if anything I would have liked to have seen some character development from the suited and booted officer that presented himself as Kylo's rival. He was obviously quite calculated and clever, but even though he was clearly important in the villain group, he hasn't really felt like the big bad guy he should be. I feel like the in-fighting amongst the first order is going to be a big deal.

As for your main point, Benton:
Spoiler
Nobody can disagree that it is the plot of A New Hope again, for sure. But I'd say you're wrong about it being able to stand up on its own merits. My Dad saw A New Hope once many, many years ago and has largely forgotten it, but he very much enjoyed this one.

I'd probably say something more like: it fails to stand up on it's own merits for the existing fanbase. It's very capable of attracting new fans to the series, and has rekindled hope for fans who were let down by the prequel (Which, I believe, accounts for most of Earth's population.)