STAR WARS: Episode VII - The Force Awakens

Started by Shogunn2517, November 06, 2014, 08:51:17 PM

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detourne_me

I completely agree with you Reep!
Spoiler
theres a damned if you do, damned if you don't quality to the franchise. You can't start out fresh with a new story, and fully developed characters because people will complain that it has nothing to do with the original trilogy. Heck, I've even seen people complain about the KOTOR games because of it.

Then, on the other hand, if you try to rehash old territory, or create new characters that are young and need guidance from the old guard, you get people complaining as well.

Kylo Ren was a breath of fresh air, really. He's not Anakin Skywalker, a natural talent and then a towering force of nature. He's an impatient boy that can't quite live up to expectations, his or his parents.

BentonGrey

Spoiler
Quote from: detourne_me on December 28, 2015, 02:08:23 PM
Kylo Ren was a breath of fresh air, really. He's not Anakin Skywalker, a natural talent and then a towering force of nature. He's an impatient boy that can't quite live up to expectations, his or his parents.
[/quote][/spoiler]

Wait DM, I thought you said he WASN'T Anakin... :P

I disagree in the strongest terms, Reep, and I'll post an actual response later.  At the moment, let me clarify, as I don't think I was clear enough. 

Spoiler
This movie doesn't stand on its own merits as an objet d'art because it is entirely derivative.  That doesn't mean it couldn't succeed in being fun and entertaining when outside of the context of the originals.  If you've never read The Odyssey, you'll never notice the parallels in The Aeneid.  That doesn't mean they aren't there, though The Aeneid succeeds despite those similarities...

I'm talking about literary merit there, and that isn't what I'd consider the major issue by a long shot.  I'd be more than happy to just say, 'okay, so it's derivative, but...' if the movie were better.  Instead, the major issue is the utterly lazy and sloppy writing that manifests itself in the parade of plot holes, contrivances, and convenient occurrences.

Here's a list (occasionally inaccurate, as with the Rathtars) of plot holes/logical inconsistencies in the film that illustrate just how lazy the writing was:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html

(Lots of spoilers, of course) Most of those aren't, as claimed, unforgivable, though some (notably those involving Ren, Finn, and Rey) are certainly close.

More later gents.
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HarryTrotter

I assume we all saw the movie,so minor spoilers:
-Was it worth the ticket?Yes.Was it worth losing the whole EU because of it?No.
-Despite what the trailers made us think,Finn isnt the main character.
His character arc is over pretty fast,after that hes just kinda there.I dont hate Finn,Im just saying that there was more that could have been done with the character.
-You kinda stop caring about new characters once Han Solo shows up,because he completly steals the movie. :)
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Shogunn2517

Quote from: Spade on December 29, 2015, 06:26:55 AM
I assume we all saw the movie,so minor spoilers:
-Was it worth the ticket?Yes.Was it worth losing the whole EU because of it?No.
-Despite what the trailers made us think,Finn isnt the main character.
His character arc is over pretty fast,after that hes just kinda there.I dont hate Finn,Im just saying that there was more that could have been done with the character.
-You kinda stop caring about new characters once Han Solo shows up,because he completly steals the movie. :)

You know, I'm kinda on the fence about the loss of the EU.  I mean I know I spent YEARS practically studying Star Wars continunity.  I don't know how many of you actually seen Time Tales, but I've read the WHOLE thing, more than once.  But that's just it.  There were a lot of nuances that I'm glad to get rid of.  Like when Han talks about that Bounty Hunter on Ord Mandell, do you know how many EU stories tell the story of Han a bounty hunter and Ord Mandell?  I mean, I know the beautiful thing about the EU was the elasticity that it could weave itself it to whatever story that was written, but some of them were a might ridiculous.  Point of note, I pretty much hated everything from the New Jedi order and on...  maybe that's just me so I'm not losing any sleep over it.

Now that Disney/Lucasfilm has the new Canon, I look at it as an opportunity to streamline the stories and to lose a lot of the convoluted mess that's hard for even me to follow.  Though it's a chance to start and keep up with a clean timeline, I am slowly realizing many of the new writers and creators are STILL using a lot of the EU as source material and BRINGING it into canon.  Like the Hundred Years of Darkness, the Inquisitors, Death Watch, Witches of Dathomir, the "Old Republic" vs the "Galactic Republic".  Even the "New Republic" is in Ep7.  So the EU is there and still being used.  They just can take and choose what they want.  Ultimately, I'm sure the meat of what we knew as the EU will be restored as actual "Canon". 

HarryTrotter

#64
Ofc,we are talking about hundreds of works across several media,so not everything could be great.And again,I can understand WHY Disney did it,but I dont really like it.
And there will probably be some works in Legends continuity in the future.IMO Disney just didnt want to experiment with 2 timelines this early,but in the future...
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Reepicheep

#65
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 29, 2015, 05:41:32 AM
I disagree in the strongest terms, Reep, and I'll post an actual response later. 

Pistols at dawn, sir!

Spoiler
I get what you're saying about the movie standing alone now, and agree from within my own terms. Thanks for clarifying. I feel on the Kylo Ren front we'll end up agreeing to disagree, but do share your observations.

I saw that same huffpost link earlier today and gave up about half way in. I don't know if I'm just not ready to be impartial and objective yet (I'm definitely going through a state of irrational euphoria now that I've watched a star wars movie I've enjoyed), but I found a lot of that list to be contrived.

BWPS

Yeah all the things people complain about aren't even bad things to me. The plot being reused was strange but I feel like it was just to get the fans on board. It totally worked for me. I don't understand why Rey isn't allowed to be good at the force. Maybe she's just awesome, I like awesome stuff. Why is it bad that Kylo Ren has feelings? It's like everything we hated about Hayden Christiansen is fixed. People I know have emotions so I don't mind that being reflected in art. I feel like you have to be trying pretty hard to be disagreeable to not like a movie this good, it was running at 11 for action, characters, fun, coolness, and stuff you haven't seen before. If Star Wars just isn't your thing, I can understand. Go watch The King's Speech or Doubt or whatever Oscar movie you might enjoy.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

HarryTrotter

Shes "allowed" to master the Force,its just pretty contrived she does it in 5 minutes.Fighting and piloting are justified,but Jedi Mind Trick?Maybe a second movie will explain it but now it didnt make sense really.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Reepicheep

Quote from: BWPS on December 29, 2015, 02:09:24 PM
Yeah all the things people complain about aren't even bad things to me.

Totally the same. I think this movie has a lot of elements that are one man's trash and another man's treasure. I would defend a lot of the film's points, including
Spoiler
Rey using the force so quickly and the reuse of the plot - these are things that I'm fine to be on board with
until the cows come home, but I understand if it jarred someone else.

I think the biggest talking point that isn't a matter of subjectivity is the loss of the EU, as Spade brought up. That's a lot of good content vanished. I never got particularly invested in the EU and I actually know very little about what was written for post-original trilogy (I've never read a star wars book, only pottered about on wookieepedia). Nonetheless, I would be interested in how much of the EU is actually incompatible with the new movies. I understand that the EU has killed off some key characters in ways that the movie may not depict, but there may still be entire stories or even parts of stories that one could still recognise as part of the canon.

Talavar

Rey's
Spoiler
skill with the force is definitely unusual, but I'm unwilling to write it off as a problem, as we know virtually nothing about the character.  If she is Luke's kid, depending on the mother, she could be the most powerful potential force user ever.  Maybe she had training as a child, but dismissed it all as play acting or imaginary as she grew up isolated.  It's a question in need of an answer.

Kylo Ren is
Spoiler
definitely not a problem however.  He's one of the few times this movie does something new, and it is absolutely credible.  He's an angry young man growing up in the shadow of legendary parents.  Of course he's going to have issues with them, and how they achieved their goals.  If the galaxy was really saved, why is it still such a crappy place (to his mind).  Don't confuse not getting what you wanted with getting a poorly conceived character.

And as to the loss of the EU, well, it wasn't worth bus fare.  The handful of good stories were dragged down by the boatloads of trash they were yoked to.  The stories still exist, it's just now no one has to pretend they're canon anymore.

HarryTrotter

Well the biggest problem with EU was that-well,future was done.You had New Jedi Order,Invasion,Legacy-there just wasn't room for a new movie there.So yeah,future had to go.But for now there is no need to rewrite the past,so those stories could still be canon.Could,but also don't have to be.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

detourne_me

 :thumbup:

I couldn't make it through that HuffClickbait article Benton. Half the time the writer contradicted themselves or just wasn't paying attention.
Spoiler
Plunkett didn't steal BB8 outright because those food portions are worthless to him, but worth a lot more to the people on Jakku, that's why he is fat, and owns the millennium falcon, while most people on Jakku are starving. He has a comfortable life, and connections, why burn bridges by assaulting Rey?
Why didn't Rey turn in the X-wing helmet? Because she's a fangirl, that's why she knew so much about the rebel alliance.

Also, I hate to be a broken record here, but the EU is not lost forever, this is the Nu52 all over again. Those old comics and novels are still around for you to read. This is the beauty of fiction, there is no 'truth' to it. All of it can be true to you. Sure, you may be upset that some of your favourite adventures won't be continuing, but there's always the possibility of someone writing them down the line.

I just have to say, I'm excited for what's coming.  I hope we get some great video games out of it, to go along with the excellent comics and cartoons. Heck, the Star Wars Rebels mobile game is a very decent sidescroller with 6 playable characters that all have different play styles.

JeyNyce

One thing I would like to see, but I know I won't:

Spoiler
In one of the older Dark Horse Star Wars comic, there was a story of how Han & Chewie were being chased by pirates or something and went into hyper-drive.  For some reason, they ended up on earth.  Han got killed and Chewie ended up being the mysterious Big Foot.  Years later the Falcon and Han's remains were found by Indiana Jones.  It would have been awesome if they could have done that, especially if there's talk about about a new Indy movie 
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Podmark

I saw The Force Awakens opening weekend. I really liked it. Can't wait for more.

Spoiler

Really enjoyed the new characters, and Han was great.
Kylo Ren was actually the stand out to me. From the trailers I was expecting a Darth Vader-esque big bad, I thought he'd be cool and intimidating but not much else, but instead we get a more human character, someone who is struggling, and I'm curious which direction he'll ultimately go. Is this a redemption story or does he just get worse from here?

I'm sure recreating A New Hope's plot was a very deliberate choice, something to help reintroduce Star Wars, get it back on track. Make it familiar and welcoming. An original plot could have worked but this was a smart (and easy) way to make this film work. I don't expect the sequels to follow Empire and Jedi's plots in any significant way.

I do see where people are coming with Rey's force abilities, and I think that could have been handled better. However I tend to think like Talavar, there may be some explanation coming eventually. Additionally the force is a living thing, I don't discount it giving her a boost in a time of need.

As for the EU, I'm as big a fan of it as anyone but I think letting it go was the smart decision. It's the decision I would make. The problem is that it's a complete saga. Between all the books, comics, games etc they've covered every point in the time line from Luke's life and beyond. There isn't any room to fit in an original film featuring Hamill, Ford, and Fisher while still being a significant story and not breaking the continuity further. Disney's only choices were to jettison it or make adaptations (Or go to the past, or post Legacy) - well there is some room between Fate of the Jedi and Legacy. I'd love to see adaptations of the novels but they'd create their own continuity problems as you try to fit 500 page, multi part novels into 2 hour films.

Sticking to the EU would be creatively restricting for the new film makers, and going this way gives flexibility to create new stories for the audience to enjoy. Hopefully they learn from the EU about what worked and what didn't. Personally I think it would be cool if some specific characters made it into the new continuity but we'll see.

And the Legends canon is still there as an alternate history. I expect Spade is right and eventually we'll see new works in that canon as well. Personally I just picked up the complete Star Wars Legacy comic, and I'm excited to read through that.
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BWPS

Quote from: JeyNyce on December 29, 2015, 08:20:07 PM
One thing I would like to see, but I know I won't:

Spoiler
In one of the older Dark Horse Star Wars comic, there was a story of how Han & Chewie were being chased by pirates or something and went into hyper-drive.  For some reason, they ended up on earth.  Han got killed and Chewie ended up being the mysterious Big Foot.  Years later the Falcon and Han's remains were found by Indiana Jones.  It would have been awesome if they could have done that, especially if there's talk about about a new Indy movie 

That's pretty great, but you're right, there's probably not much chance for that.

Spoiler
During the final scenes on Luke's planet I was thinking "Is that Earth? That'd be quite a twist! Maybe they'll put life on it and that'll show our planet's origins." Then I realized that'd probably be too weird and unnecessary.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

HarryTrotter

@Jey that was Star Wars Tales.Great anthology series.From Darth Vader fighting Darth Maul to Skippy the Jedi droid,there was a lot of cool stuff there.
-Digital I have become.Destroyed your credit ratings I have.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#76
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 29, 2015, 05:41:32 AM
I disagree in the strongest terms, Reep, and I'll post an actual response later.  At the moment, let me clarify, as I don't think I was clear enough. 

Spoiler
This movie doesn't stand on its own merits as an objet d'art because it is entirely derivative.  That doesn't mean it couldn't succeed in being fun and entertaining when outside of the context of the originals.  If you've never read The Odyssey, you'll never notice the parallels in The Aeneid.  That doesn't mean they aren't there, though The Aeneid succeeds despite those similarities...

Not for nothing, but the original Star Wars was derivative as well, as are many later iterations of the franchise right up to the Clone Wars cartoons and Rebels (and if we're honest, probably like 99% of all fiction made since most of us were born).

QuoteAlso, I hate to be a broken record here, but the EU is not lost forever, this is the Nu52 all over again. Those old comics and novels are still around for you to read. This is the beauty of fiction, there is no 'truth' to it. All of it can be true to you. Sure, you may be upset that some of your favourite adventures won't be continuing, but there's always the possibility of someone writing them down the line.

I would just like to take this opportunity to point out the following in response to this post:

1. Disney was, to varying degrees, responsible for shutting down a few Star Wars online games and mobile games. In those cases, no, I actually can't go back and play them. They also cancelled, among other things, 1313, which was shaping up to be one of the best looking Star Wars games in years and one of my personal most anticipated games at the time.

2. I also just found out that rights issues may prevent the final season of Clone Wars to be released in a complete set with the first five seasons for the time being.

3. We still don't have the un-altered original trilogy on Blu-Ray,  despite the fact that a fan-made version made for free now exists, and last I checked the DVD sets that included the original laserdisc versions (which I own) are out of print.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

You probably heard this one before,but could Supreme Leader Snoke actually be
Spoiler
Jar Jar Binks?  :o
https://www.reddit.com/comments/3qvj6w
That theory actually makes sense when explained like that.Or at least I can believe that he was intended as a hidden villain.The real Phantom Menace.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Tomato

Saw it last weekend finally. I really liked it.

Spoiler
Looking over the last page of comments, the biggest point of contention seems to be that it's basically a carbon copy of the first film. However, while I won't try to deny that, I'm not really bothered by it either. I watched a couple reviews of the film after the fact, and one of them pointed out that after years of the god-awful prequels and fan disappointment, Abrams and crew needed to prove that they could deliver a quintessential Star Wars film before being able to move forward with something wholly new. Now, that's not to say this approach doesn't create some serious problems... since the movie is such a carbon copy of A New Hope, it telegraphs some of the biggest "twists" early in the film, which took a lot of the shock out of what should have been important events.

That being said, there are some weak elements in this film. By far the biggest problems are the villains. I don't mind Kylo Ren necessarily, but Smoke is... boring. He just feels like a weaker version of Palpatine. There's nothing about him that feels new or threatening. That would be fine enough, but because Kylo Ren is also less threatening than Vader was, you need a stronger primary villain to give the movies more tension.

Reepicheep

Quote from: Tomato on January 05, 2016, 06:37:11 AM
Saw it last weekend finally. I really liked it.

Spoiler
Looking over the last page of comments, the biggest point of contention seems to be that it's basically a carbon copy of the first film. However, while I won't try to deny that, I'm not really bothered by it either. I watched a couple reviews of the film after the fact, and one of them pointed out that after years of the god-awful prequels and fan disappointment, Abrams and crew needed to prove that they could deliver a quintessential Star Wars film before being able to move forward with something wholly new. Now, that's not to say this approach doesn't create some serious problems... since the movie is such a carbon copy of A New Hope, it telegraphs some of the biggest "twists" early in the film, which took a lot of the shock out of what should have been important events.

That being said, there are some weak elements in this film. By far the biggest problems are the villains. I don't mind Kylo Ren necessarily, but Smoke is... boring. He just feels like a weaker version of Palpatine. There's nothing about him that feels new or threatening. That would be fine enough, but because Kylo Ren is also less threatening than Vader was, you need a stronger primary villain to give the movies more tension.

Spoiler
totally agree about Snoke. So far, he's just very two dimensional. No motive, no background, nothing. Since it wasn't made clear how powerful or fragile either the first order or the new republic actually are, we're not even all that sure of the threat he presents.

My hope is that he turns out to be a bit of a Big Brother/Wizard of Oz character. Just an evil looking front for something even more evil. If I were writing it, I'd even go as far as to reveal that he doesn't actually exist, but still managed to fool everyone.

BWPS

I can't wait for the next one, Rian Johnson is such a unique and interesting director while still making very enjoyable movies. I'm one of a few JJ Abrams fans in the world, but I think switching directors is a great move. With Rian Johnson in the lead, I have no worries that VIII will be an Empire clone, though it will probably similarly be amazing.
I apologize in advance for everything I say on here. I regret it immediately after clicking post.

HarryTrotter

Quote from: Reepicheep on January 05, 2016, 01:55:59 PM
Quote from: Tomato on January 05, 2016, 06:37:11 AM
Saw it last weekend finally. I really liked it.

Spoiler
Looking over the last page of comments, the biggest point of contention seems to be that it's basically a carbon copy of the first film. However, while I won't try to deny that, I'm not really bothered by it either. I watched a couple reviews of the film after the fact, and one of them pointed out that after years of the god-awful prequels and fan disappointment, Abrams and crew needed to prove that they could deliver a quintessential Star Wars film before being able to move forward with something wholly new. Now, that's not to say this approach doesn't create some serious problems... since the movie is such a carbon copy of A New Hope, it telegraphs some of the biggest "twists" early in the film, which took a lot of the shock out of what should have been important events.

That being said, there are some weak elements in this film. By far the biggest problems are the villains. I don't mind Kylo Ren necessarily, but Smoke is... boring. He just feels like a weaker version of Palpatine. There's nothing about him that feels new or threatening. That would be fine enough, but because Kylo Ren is also less threatening than Vader was, you need a stronger primary villain to give the movies more tension.

Spoiler
totally agree about Snoke. So far, he's just very two dimensional. No motive, no background, nothing. Since it wasn't made clear how powerful or fragile either the first order or the new republic actually are, we're not even all that sure of the threat he presents.

My hope is that he turns out to be a bit of a Big Brother/Wizard of Oz character. Just an evil looking front for something even more evil. If I were writing it, I'd even go as far as to reveal that he doesn't actually exist, but still managed to fool everyone.

Guy is a hologram of Voldemort.There is a good chance hes a fake.
Or he could actually be
Spoiler
Darth Plagueis.They say he did cheat death.
Or hes Palpatine himself,who somehow survived(wouldn't be the first time).Could be that Kylo Ren plans to kill him,thus "he will finish what Vader started".
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

Because of Rogue One, I've had Star Wars on the brain for the past few days, and I was just struck by something that codified one of my strongest problems with The Force Awakens. Plenty of ink has been spilled about how Abrams reset the the entire Star Wars universe, on a practical level, to where it was after the first film. You've got more or less the same situation, with an outnumbered and outgunned resistance opposing a powerful and ruthless government headed by mysterious figures. It's as much of a rehash as all of the various copied moments from the first film.

Even worse, though, it just occurred to me that Abrams also undid three movies and around a decade of character development for the original characters. In TFA they are in almost precisely the same places they were at the beginning of the first film. Han and Chewie are scraping by in a marginal existence as smugglers, hunted by their creditors. Leia has lost much and is waging a lonely battle against the Empire/First Order. Luke is on an isolated, desert world, dreaming of more. They've regressed. The only differences are they are now older and sadder. What a pointless journey, even aside from how much I hated some of the particulars.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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spydermann93

Just remember Benton, as much as I personally liked the film, The Force Awakens was more of "A New Hope Redux" than its own film (and before anybody gets mad, it did have some of its own elements, but it was pretty much a rehash). Probably why the old cast are pretty much the way they were back in the 70's.

Shogunn2517

Gotta admit, I can't help but to wonder if Episode VIII will just be a rehash of ESB... again with very little deviation.

Tomato

I kinda doubt it. True, we'll get some of the superficial "this is the second movie in a trilogy" commonalities because ESB is pretty much the gold standard for how a second movie works, but you have to remember: There's a REASON that VII was basically a rehash of IV. VII had to recapture the magic of Star Wars for an audience that had grown hyper-critical and downright antagonistic towards the franchise after a set of prequels that were poorly paced, poorly edited, and poorly directed. VII had to prove that a new creative team could capture the spark that made the originals great again and to do that... it cheated. It copied plot elements wholesale from IV and regressed characters to a point where we'd recognise them and the series again. And let's be clear here: As much as we may deride them for that, IT WORKED.

But now? They've re-established the franchise, and have now proved that even a spin-off movie about characters that we've never heard of can be a financial success. They now have the freedom to break away from the original formula, which I do think was always the plan.

HarryTrotter

Magic-Im not so sure about,but it did recapture the hype of the prequels for sure.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Talavar

Quote from: BentonGrey on December 21, 2016, 10:57:10 PM
Because of Rogue One, I've had Star Wars on the brain for the past few days, and I was just struck by something that codified one of my strongest problems with The Force Awakens. Plenty of ink has been spilled about how Abrams reset the the entire Star Wars universe, on a practical level, to where it was after the first film. You've got more or less the same situation, with an outnumbered and outgunned resistance opposing a powerful and ruthless government headed by mysterious figures. It's as much of a rehash as all of the various copied moments from the first film.

Even worse, though, it just occurred to me that Abrams also undid three movies and around a decade of character development for the original characters. In TFA they are in almost precisely the same places they were at the beginning of the first film. Han and Chewie are scraping by in a marginal existence as smugglers, hunted by their creditors. Leia has lost much and is waging a lonely battle against the Empire/First Order. Luke is on an isolated, desert world, dreaming of more. They've regressed. The only differences are they are now older and sadder. What a pointless journey, even aside from how much I hated some of the particulars.

I don't think that's an entirely fair assessment, Benton.  As TFA opens, the First Order, while outgunning the Resistance, only controls a small part of the galaxy and is reported as being significantly weaker than the New Republic.  Despite the surgical strike suffered in TFA, the New Republic should still be stronger--and definitively on the Resistance side, unlike in TFA.  Any engagements in Episode 8 should be on much more equal footing than anything we saw in the original trilogy.

Really, we don't know anything about Luke's motives.  We hear what others say about him, but that's all their supposition--it's not like they've been chatting.  Anything I propose is purely supposition, but so is your statement about him.  Han and Leia's developments, while said, also ring very true.  They've essentially lost a child before TFA opens, and how they react to that is very human.

Finally, describing the characters' journey as pointless because everything didn't work out awesome forever always is shortsighted.  Han and Leia must have had some good years in there, maybe a couple of decades worth.  But as much as there are real world reasons we're not seeing those years, there are narrative ones as well--the series isn't call Star Raising a Troubled Teen, after all.

The Force Awakens isn't perfect, but to write it off as merely a reset, and the characters' journeys as pointless because at various points in 30 years time they've encountered further setbacks and difficulties, is both reductive and reactionary.

Quote from: Spade on December 22, 2016, 10:29:46 AM
Magic-Im not so sure about,but it did recapture the hype of the prequels for sure.

With the noteworthy distinction that people actually like the Force Awakens.

HarryTrotter

People did like the prequels at the time.Anybody who said they walked out in the middle of Phantom Menace is lying.But the farther away we got,the worst they became.
And a year away from TFA,people are a lot more objective about it then last year.And the truth is,its a really lazy movie.Just saying.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Tomato

Not necessarily. We may not have walked out, but while my friends and I were fairly young (10-ish) and liked it fine, I remember our group walking out of the theater and my dad (who was escorting us) just being like "That was just awful. That was so bad." and every time my friend would make comments about how good it was, he'd be like "no. It is really awful."

Again, I'm not going to defend TFA for what it is: I outright admit that it steals plot points straight from ANH. However, I do see enough new concepts for the future films to play off of, so I do not think it's fair to condemn future sequels before we've seen them. TFA did what it did to earn trust back, and now Disney has it and can go forth and do new stuff.