Into the Bronze Age

[daglob]

Speaking of goofy, I've got a fair amount of silliness in my latest Into the Bronze Age post!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/02/07/into-the-bronze-age-december-1970-part-1/

How did I miss your first column for December 1970? The Black Flame (in her Jim Mooney designed darker costume) in on my hard drive. Three or four of her, actually... The way gold kryptonite is treated in this story makes it out to be little of a threat, especially with all the fuss made over it in the past. Reminds me of a story... but they all do.

"The Black Flame" was the name of a character created by Stanley G. Weinbaum in a story that is considered a kind of SF classic.

[HarryTrotter]

And a Hellboy villain,but I guess they were both inspired by Weinbaum.
Its also the offical magazine of American Satanistic Church.Funny what you can learn with google.

[daglob]

And it's got me looking back at previous posts. Seems like I missed several others.

[BentonGrey]

Of course you've got her, DG! 

Yeah, the gold K was really not that much of a threat, and it contrasts with a story from just a few months earlier, which I alluded to.

Sorry you missed some of those, my friend, but here's another to add to the pile!  Here is the end of February 1971's comics:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/04/05/into-the-bronze-age-february-1971-part-7/

[dudalb]

RIP Don Rickles, who managed to insult Superman when Jack Kirby brought Rickles into the DC universe during Kirby's famous Jimmy Olsen run...when he  made Jimmy Olsen a comic book worth reading....and it was in this run that Kirby introduced His Fourth World.

Both DC and Marvel  have on occasion brought actual people into their comic book unvierses, but few have been  as successful..or drop dead funny....as what Kirby did with Rickles .

[BentonGrey]

Ha, well, I suppose our mileage will vary, but I was never a huge fan of Rickles' turn in Jimmy Olsen.  It was just really jarring and strange compared to what comes before and after.  Perhaps I'll enjoy it more on my second reading.

Either way, today we begin March 1971, and in this month we've got the introduction of the rest of Kirby's 4th World books.  I can't wait!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/04/10/into-the-bronze-age-march-1971-part-1/

[BentonGrey]

Howdy guys, how about another shot of Bronze Age-y goodness, this time with extra Zaney (and I do mean zaney) Haney?
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/04/11/into-the-bronze-age-march-1971-part-2/

[BentonGrey]

I'm feeling a bit redundant here, but how about another edition of Into the Bronze Age?
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/04/18/into-the-bronze-age-march-1971-part-3/

[BentonGrey]

It's been radio-silence for a long time, but now here comes more Into the Bronze Age!:
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/05/29/into-the-bronze-age-march-1971-part-4/

[daglob]

 

[HarryTrotter]

You think they would call Doctor Fate or somebody?

[daglob]

You think they would call Doctor Fate or somebody?

Pre-Crisis calling the good doctor wasn't as easy. I don't remember if they had a magic expert like him on Earth-1. The Phantom Stranger, maybe, but he wasn't someone they could just call on the phone. Zatara or Zatanna?

[Deaths Jester]

Would've been either Zatara, Zatanna, or Doctor Occult..that's who they would've called...

[BentonGrey]

Right!  I didn't list Dr. Fate because he was on Earth-2, so it was reasonable for them not to think of him.  DG and DJ are right, though, Zatara or Zatanna would have been probably the best choice.  I don't think Dr. Occult had been brought back yet at this point, and I imagine that folks don't exactly have a phone number for the Phantom Stranger!    Still, Green Lantern is just about the last person, other than Superman, that you'd call for help with magic.  

[HarryTrotter]

Granted,my knowlege of 70's DC is that great,but wasnt Dr Fate around?I think he had a few guest apperences and a back-up in Flash(I think)?Were those a case of  interdimensional travel?

[daglob]

Wait, is Zatara Earth-1? I know Zatanna hopped around different character's books in the '60s looking for her father, but for a magic user hopping dimensions wouldn't be hard. Same with Dr. Occult; was he originally Earth-2?

[BentonGrey]

Dr. Fate's Earth-2 until Crisis, Spade, so yeah, any Bronze Age stories with him are either cases of dimension hopping or set on Earth-2.

DG, Zatara was supposed to be Earth-1 because of Zatanna, though that doesn't exactly line up perfectly given his history.  You can hand-wave that by just saying he was from Earth-2 but just ended up on 1.  As for Occult, because his original adventures were from the 30s and 40s, he would probably technically have been Earth-2, but he wasn't brought back until the 80s, so I don't think we ever saw it confirmed. 

[Deaths Jester]

Wait, is Zatara Earth-1? I know Zatanna hopped around different character's books in the '60s looking for her father, but for a magic user hopping dimensions wouldn't be hard. Same with Dr. Occult; was he originally Earth-2?

The original Zatara was a member of the All-Star Squadron so I'd say he is part of Earth-1.

Granted,my knowlege of 70's DC is that great,but wasnt Dr Fate around?I think he had a few guest apperences and a back-up in Flash(I think)?Were those a case of  interdimensional travel?

Doc Fate was running around all the way back in the 1940s (the original Kent Nelson) and was an establishing member of the JSA, though he did retire for a time ('41-'60), but by 1960 he was back and at it again.  SO there is a potential to call him too, though, I daresay it would've been a hassle.  Zatara would've been the go to back then because he was extremely easy to get a hold of...other than doing stage shows he was free a lot.

EDIT: NINJA'D BY BG... 

[kkhohoho]

Dr. Fate's Earth-2 until Crisis, Spade, so yeah, any Bronze Age stories with him are either cases of dimension hopping or set on Earth-2.

DG, Zatara was supposed to be Earth-1 because of Zatanna, though that doesn't exactly line up perfectly given his history.  You can hand-wave that by just saying he was from Earth-2 but just ended up on 1.  As for Occult, because his original adventures were from the 30s and 40s, he would probably technically have been Earth-2, but he wasn't brought back until the 80s, so I don't think we ever saw it confirmed.

He actually showed up for one issue of All Star Sqaudron, so yeah, he was Earth 2. Mind you, the whole thing is convoluted as heck. Characters like the first Robotman or Wildcat or Plasticman were originally supposed to be from Earth 2, but then you had other stories saying they also had alternative versions on Earth 1, even though most of them are mainly Golden Age characters and Earth 2 was supposed to be the Golden Age hangout. Now, Plasticman and Wildcat's Earth 1 versions were in Brave and the Bold, so that could just be blamed on Zaney Haney, but then there's Steve Englehart throwing Robotman into a flashback in his Justice League run. Honestly, part of me welcomed Crisis because it simplified the whole thing. I usually don't mind the concept of a multiverse, but by the mid 80's, DC needed to clean house a bit.

[BentonGrey]

Ha, sorry DJ! 

Kk, yeah, they definitely needed streamlining and house-cleaning, but, like every other time they've done it, they didn't do a thorough enough job.  Of course, Crisis was still infinitely more successful than every other attempt. 

By the way, just a random aside, but I've been re-reading the O'Neil JLA issues from before my Bronze Age jumping on point, and man, they are BAD!  I was surprised, because, for the most part, his comics in the era I've been reading have been reasonably good, if overwrought or underdeveloped, but how he gets rid of the Martian Manhunter in pretty terrible.  I guess it took him a while to find his sea legs.

[kkhohoho]

By the way, just a random aside, but I've been re-reading the O'Neil JLA issues from before my Bronze Age jumping on point, and man, they are BAD!  I was surprised, because, for the most part, his comics in the era I've been reading have been reasonably good, if overwrought or underdeveloped, but how he gets rid of the Martian Manhunter in pretty terrible.  I guess it took him a while to find his sea legs.

But... I really liked that story! I thought it was one of the best stories the Classic League ever put out. It had pathos, intense action, an interesting story, even some half-decent character work. (Which for most of DC prior to the late 70's was pretty rare, let me tell you.) With all due respect, just what made it so terrible?

[BentonGrey]

Howdy folks!  We finally get to New Gods #1 in this new Bronze Age feature!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/06/02/into-the-bronze-age-march-1971-part-5/

Sorry KK!  I don't mean to insult a story you enjoyed, but I rather strongly disliked that one.  See, O'Neil rarely writes a yarn that has nothing to recommend it.  They've always got interesting ideas, good moments, or at least something to recommend them, even when Green Arrow is invoking Godwin's Law left and right by calling everyone and their brother a Nazi.  That story is no exception.  There are some cool moments, like the taking of the Martian ship, or the final showdown with Blanx, and you're right, there is some attempt at characterization and pathos, which is commendable .  The major problems with that issue are:

A) The severity of the retcon O'Neil foists on MM, just to get him out of the book and with zero intentions to follow it up
B) The incredibly silly explanations of the conflict on Mars, including the silly McGuffin of the fire tree, that, despite being a source of Martian weaknesses, is the ONLY source of heat on the planet?  That's pretty asinine, though it is a cool visual. 
C) The unexplained weirdness of MM's conduct in the beginning of the book and the implied irrationality of his conduct over the decade plus of his exile, as he apparently just forgot about his people's plight for yeras.
D) The unnecessary severity of the disaster O'Neil inflicts on the Martians, annihilating the race in a few panels and with almost no focus to justify it.
E) A corollary, the weakness of Blanx's motivations in light of his genocide, without any real development of the horror that the banality of evil should generate, i.e., his willingness to murder his race in order to become wealthy should be given major weight to contrast its weakness.
D) The fact that J'onn straight up kills Blanx in the end, once again, without comment or focus.

It's not a bad read out of context, but it's not a good story.

[kkhohoho]

Howdy folks!  We finally get to New Gods #1 in this new Bronze Age feature!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/06/02/into-the-bronze-age-march-1971-part-5/

Sorry KK!  I don't mean to insult a story you enjoyed, but I rather strongly disliked that one.  See, O'Neil rarely writes a yarn that has nothing to recommend it.  They've always got interesting ideas, good moments, or at least something to recommend them, even when Green Arrow is invoking Godwin's Law left and right by calling everyone and their brother a Nazi.  That story is no exception.  There are some cool moments, like the taking of the Martian ship, or the final showdown with Blanx, and you're right, there is some attempt at characterization and pathos, which is commendable .  The major problems with that issue are:

A) The severity of the retcon O'Neil foists on MM, just to get him out of the book and with zero intentions to follow it up
B) The incredibly silly explanations of the conflict on Mars, including the silly McGuffin of the fire tree, that, despite being a source of Martian weaknesses, is the ONLY source of heat on the planet?  That's pretty asinine, though it is a cool visual. 
C) The unexplained weirdness of MM's conduct in the beginning of the book and the implied irrationality of his conduct over the decade plus of his exile, as he apparently just forgot about his people's plight for yeras.
D) The unnecessary severity of the disaster O'Neil inflicts on the Martians, annihilating the race in a few panels and with almost no focus to justify it.
E) A corollary, the weakness of Blanx's motivations in light of his genocide, without any real development of the horror that the banality of evil should generate, i.e., his willingness to murder his race in order to become wealthy should be given major weight to contrast its weakness.
D) The fact that J'onn straight up kills Blanx in the end, once again, without comment or focus.

It's not a bad read out of context, but it's not a good story.

Hm. You have some good points, but I think I'd have to read it again to see if I really agree with them. I will say this. I grew up with J'onn always having been the last of his kind. To me, that was simply who J'onn was, and I couldn't think of him any other way. It was only later that I learned this wasn't always the case, and it was only after that that I saw Young Justice, which to my knowledge is the only major modern work with J'onn in it that has the other Martians alive and well. Now to be fair, I've got nothing against J'onn not being the last member of his species and not having to deal with the mainpain that entails, but at the same time, that also means that I'm not vehemently opposed to the story that made him the (kinda sorta) last in the first place, simply because that's just what I'm used to. And while there probably are still a number of issues with that story, I'm also mindful of the time this story was made and who was making it, and of just how worthwhile it really is in that context. What I'm saying is that while I acknowledge those problems may exist, I may not not necessarily mind them, even if I end up agreeing with you on how some of them were handled.

[daglob]

Yeah, but I grew up with J'onn as an unwilling exile of a once-advanced race that still clung to existence along the canals of Mars. There were cameos of other Martians (along with a guest shot of T'omm J'onzz, J'onn's brother). This story took a soft science fiction character and tried to make him "relevant", a process they still do today. As for Blanx, Google Idi Amin and see if you think that might be were they got the idea from. See, this told me that J'onn had been lying, and all those silly, funny, enjoyable stories were not what they appeared to be. I haven't read the JLA story in decades, but if memory serves, it was also probably a way to get rid of J'onn because no one knew what to do with him. Yes, even then, all the good MM stories had been written.

No, I didn't sleep good last night. I'll quit now. But:

Whatever happen to Zook, anyway? (No, I don't really want to know; he was probably revealed to be the supremely evil ruler of his dimension who was hiding on Earth as he prepared to conquer this plane of existence.)

[BentonGrey]

Hm. You have some good points, but I think I'd have to read it again to see if I really agree with them. I will say this. I grew up with J'onn always having been the last of his kind. To me, that was simply who J'onn was, and I couldn't think of him any other way. It was only later that I learned this wasn't always the case, and it was only after that that I saw Young Justice, which to my knowledge is the only major modern work with J'onn in it that has the other Martians alive and well. Now to be fair, I've got nothing against J'onn not being the last member of his species and not having to deal with the mainpain that entails, but at the same time, that also means that I'm not vehemently opposed to the story that made him the (kinda sorta) last in the first place, simply because that's just what I'm used to. And while there probably are still a number of issues with that story, I'm also mindful of the time this story was made and who was making it, and of just how worthwhile it really is in that context. What I'm saying is that while I acknowledge those problems may exist, I may not not necessarily mind them, even if I end up agreeing with you on how some of them were handled.

Kk, my friend, you also make some good points, but I think you partially misunderstand the focus of my critique.  I'm also one who knows MM best as the last of his race.  In fact, it is that interpretation that shows up in my idealized DCU, the DCUG, and I've got no plans to change it.  That's the version I like best, as I feel it adds the most to his character.  I have zero problem with that take on the character, and I have zero problem with the idea of a story that establishes such.  On the other hand, I do have a problem with the casual and slap-dash manner in which this was accompanied in O'Neil's book.  Something of that scope demands more focus and narrative space. 

Your point about when and where this story debuted is a good one, and something I try to keep in mind as I write my posts, but one of my main standards is, where there examples of such things being done well by this point, and there certainly were.  Fantastic storytelling was mature enough in 1968 that O'Neil, simply put, should have known better. 

But nonetheless, I don't want to ruin the story for you or anything, and you need not agree with me.  As you say, the same issues may not trouble you. 



DG, haha, I feel ya', man!  Idi Amin certainly would provide a good source for Blanx, but he didn't really rise to power until '70, a year after the story in question was published.  This story definitely made a very different creature out of MM.  He had been a fairly light character, but the tragedy this event saddles him with makes something else out of him.  And then, after having written an event that provided fodder for countless stories, O'Neil just packs the character off to parts unknown.  Yeah, disposing of a character like J'onn so haphazardly is just lazy writing.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PutOnABus

Apparently, Zook has never officially reappeared after the 60s MM series was cancelled.  Shame.

[daglob]

With Idi Amin it seemed longer.

[BentonGrey]

Ha, fair enough!

And also hopefully both fair and enough, I've got the final post for March 1971 finished!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/06/06/into-the-bronze-age-march-1971-part-6/

[BentonGrey]

We're back from our travels and I'm back in the Bronze Age!  Check out the new post, and come back soon for a special feature! 
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/07/04/into-the-bronze-age-april-1971-part-1/

[BentonGrey]

Howdy gents!  I come bearing special editions!  Today we cover a two part story, with part 1 from DC and part 2 from Marvel!  I also cover the final issue of Aquaman, sadly. 
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/07/09/into-the-bronze-age-april-1971-part-2-special-edition/

[BentonGrey]

Annnnd another one, this time with the first appearance of Mr. Miracle!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/2017/07/12/into-the-bronze-age-april-1971-part-3/