Please login or register.

Login with email, password and session length
 

News:

Happy 15th Birthday, Freedom Force!


Author Topic: Wonder Woman Movie  (Read 1298 times)

Offline The_Baroness

  • Sr. Member
  • Posts: 400
  • "you can't always get what you want"
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2017, 01:23:13 AM »
saw it today and was fantastic... I do share the criticism of Glitch Girl as well...




Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3815
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #31 on: June 06, 2017, 01:34:28 AM »
Very good up to the finale, as Glitch said.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Tomato

  • The Original AA
  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5803
  • Hufflepuff Pride
    • Hero Force
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #32 on: June 06, 2017, 02:15:01 AM »
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline Starman

  • Sr. Member
  • Posts: 407
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #33 on: June 06, 2017, 03:11:19 AM »
It's great that DC made a female superhero film with a female director. It's nice that DC spent hundreds of millions of dollars on a film that wasn't awful and hacked to death in the editing suite, with an obnoxious musical score. As far as the actual quality of this film goes...

"Wonder Woman" was ok, in as much as it was basically a ton of elements from Captain America: The First Avenger (down to the Howling Commandos-style team) smooshed together with the first Thor into an inoffensive mush. You could create a lengthy checklist of all the stuff it borrows, including the lighter Marvel tone.

Gal Gadot was good-looking but stiff and had to deliver some clunky dialogue (just like Henry Cavill as Superman). Whereas Cavill looks constipated a lot of the time, Gadot looks like she's confused.

The things I enjoyed about this film:

* Chris Pine must have broken every charismatic bone in his body injecting all the humor and pathos for the film.
* The fight scenes were exciting and well-executed. Gal Godot looks like a real-life comic book superhero and it was hair-on-arms -pricklingly cool watching her plow through small armies of guys. We really don't see women doing enough of this stuff in superhero films.
* Robin Wright, in a tiny role, was striking as the ultimate bad-arse Amazon.
* There were some interesting ideas about the nature of modern warfare struggling to get out. The little backstories about the not-Howling-Commandos, for example.

The things I didn't enjoy:

* As per the usual, a ton of good actors were wasted in either small roles or roles with punishing dialogue.
* The framing device of Batman's notes ... lame.
* The length of the movie.
* It just wasn't a very interesting film, visually or plot-wise ... it was the definition of serviceable entertainment.
* Just like in the first Thor, Themyscrira is only a backdrop. We don't really get a feel for this advanced Amazon civilization, aside from everyone sparring all day.
* The usual one-dimensional comic baddies with terrible lines. Man, the dialogue in that last battle.
* The plot doesn't really stand up under scrutiny. Like:

Amazons: "We have dedicated our entire lives to training to fight Ares!"
Wonder Woman: "So, what does he look like and how can we find him?"
Amazons: "We don't know!"

... and Wonder Woman killing tons of regular people who just happen to be fighting for Germany, then at the end, we see a few of them are only teenage boys. I'm not sure how Germany is going to feel about seeing Wonder Woman in the Justice League (alongside psycho torturer Batman and collateral damage Superman).

... and Dr Poison's strength-enhancing gas, which serves no purpose to the plot besides giving us one more fight scene. It's a gas that can make anyone as powerful as Wonder Woman. Kind of a big deal during the Great War, no?

... and Wonder Woman's apparent absence from WW2, Vietnam, the Gulf War doesn't jibe with her personal journey at the end of the film, either. In Captain America: The First Avenger this was explained by him being frozen.

So yeah, this film is ok but uninspired. Like Ant-Man or Dr Strange, basically.

I think people are confusing cinematic quality with relief that this film a) finally moves forward in terms of pop culture diversity and b) isn't another absolutely awful film crapping on popular characters and audiences.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2017, 03:13:20 AM by Starman »

Offline Shogunn2517

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 1258
  • He's Got Your Hero Right Here
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #34 on: June 06, 2017, 06:10:39 PM »
Actually now that I think about it...

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Don't get me wrong, I actually DID enjoy it.  Not just because it's giving a female superhero her due.  Patty Jenkins did a WONDERFUL job.  IMO, the film and sequencing were beautiful from the battle sequences, to the storytelling and getting specifics with the actors.  But it CERTAINLY is not the best superhero movie released.  Deadpool, Iron Man, The Dark Knight.  I'd even put Captain America Winter Soldier, Spider-Man and The Avengers are all much better.  Possibly others.

And Starman, you sure you don't want to use spoiler tags for that?

Offline Starman

  • Sr. Member
  • Posts: 407
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2017, 02:37:21 AM »
No, I'm good.

The plot here is a lot more shaky compared to Marvel films, probably because the bones of the script are just a pastiche of older Marvel films. Now DC / Warner has to spend the next "Wonder Woman" sequel explaining why Wonder Woman sat out of every conflict and disaster between 1918 to 2016, despite that running in opposition to her character journey in "Wonder Woman". It's not like she was frozen in ice or got sucked back up into Asgard.

Patty Jenkins did a wonderful job of ... copying Zack Snyder's DC movie house-style. I don't remember her using that much slow-motion and desaturated colour in 'Monster'.

As for your question, the "strength gas" was just a dumb red herring instead of being incorporated into the plot with any real care.

Online kkhohoho

  • Evil (but a hero) Santa Claus look-a-like
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3068
  • "He sees you when you're sleeping...
    • The Golden Age: Not Your Ordinary Fanfic
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2017, 03:15:42 AM »
I think the question is, is this a genuinely great movie, or does it just seem great compared to DC's previous efforts? (Or lack thereof?)
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

Offline Tomato

  • The Original AA
  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5803
  • Hufflepuff Pride
    • Hero Force
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2017, 04:58:50 AM »
I don't know that great is the right word, but it's undeniably solid and genuinely enjoyable. I'd put it up there with the likes of Ant-Man or Captain America 1... films that no doubt have their issues and probably won't make any top ten superhero lists, but are still worth watching.

That said, I have almost no issues with 2/3rds of the film. It's shot well, the action is well choreographed and paced, and the comedy is on par with or better than much of the Marvel stuff. It stumbles in its third act, but the ride up to that is so near-perfect that I kinda don't care.

And really, just to put it out there... if you really want to make a line in the sand for how DC can do things without aping Marvel, this is how you do it. 90% of the humor in Marvel films comes in quips... and while that's fine, it can get stale. In contrast, while WW is often hilarious, I can't really recall a single quip in the entire film. 90% of the humor is situational... from the tension between Diana and Steve, to character interaction, to even some of the action beats.

As for explaining the gap...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Offline HarryTrotter

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2017, 05:36:32 AM »
For the record,you do know the Austrians had concentration camps in WW1?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 03:13:00 PM by Spade »
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline Cyber Burn

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7957
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2017, 02:40:12 PM »
And Starman, you sure you don't want to use spoiler tags for that?

Yeah, I have to agree here. I haven't gotten to see the Movie yet, b\but I just wanted to see if everyone enjoyed the Movie or not. In this case, Spoilers would have been appreciated, because even though I stopped reading part way through, I still got much more information than I wanted about the Movie as a whole.

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3815
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2017, 11:34:08 PM »
I'd put it up there with the likes of Ant-Man or Captain America 1... films that no doubt have their issues and probably won't make any top ten superhero lists, but are still worth watching.

That said, I have almost no issues with 2/3rds of the film. It's shot well, the action is well choreographed and paced, and the comedy is on par with or better than much of the Marvel stuff. It stumbles in its third act, but the ride up to that is so near-perfect that I kinda don't care.

I agree with you, there. I enjoyed it for the most part and it's certainly not a bad film, but it does have some unfortunate flaws.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: June 07, 2017, 11:36:18 PM by spydermann93 »

Offline HarryTrotter

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #41 on: June 08, 2017, 04:02:35 AM »
Just a wild guess,but Americans save the world and win the war?Just like in every other movie.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline Starman

  • Sr. Member
  • Posts: 407
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #42 on: June 08, 2017, 04:33:07 AM »
Quote
I'd put it up there with the likes of Ant-Man or Captain America 1

There's a world of difference between those two films.

"Ant-Man" is just a formulaic Marvel house-style film. "Captain America: The First Avenger" is by Marvel's best screenwriting team and you can actually tell that Joe Johnston directed it. The film has its own signature style.

"Wonder Woman" definitely falls into the "house-style" category, visually. It's just that, unlike other DC films, it isn't bloated (although it is overlong), hasn't been atrociously edited and, after all the criticism "Batman vs Superman" received, was no longer beholden to the studio mandated "grittiness".

While Patty Jenkins wasn't able to make this a film with any kind of signature style, she was at least able to turn in a coherent, completed product on time, unlike Zack Synder and David Ayer, who crumbled under studio pressure and awful creative decisions.

If DC continues to learn from it's mistakes (chances are 50-50) and doesn't go overboard copying Marvel, I've got decent hopes for Joss Whedon's Batgirl solo film. As for female superheroes, I think the first amazing one we'll get will be Captain Marvel.

Offline Tomato

  • The Original AA
  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5803
  • Hufflepuff Pride
    • Hero Force
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #43 on: June 08, 2017, 03:58:59 PM »
I meant no disrespect to either film. I genuinely LIKE both films, but both have their own unique sets of problems. CA1, for example, may be well directed and have its own unique style... but the film stumbles a lot during the third act, falling back on montages and rushing through Cap's wartime efforts to get us to the plane crash before the credits.

@Spade:
I don't think America was a thing at all in the film. Spoilers for a minor plot point.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But in terms of actual participation in the war, even Steve Trevor is a British intelligence agent. Really, Britain and Germany are the only nations we REALLY see in play at all outside themyscira.

Offline HarryTrotter

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #44 on: June 08, 2017, 05:21:31 PM »
That is weird.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline Shogunn2517

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 1258
  • He's Got Your Hero Right Here
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #45 on: June 08, 2017, 07:03:54 PM »
That is weird.

That America is the leader of everything right and just in the world?

Actually becoming less and less weird these days.... (I digress)

Offline Tomato

  • The Original AA
  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5803
  • Hufflepuff Pride
    • Hero Force
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2017, 10:40:32 PM »
To clarify my earlier post, because I did some digging... Steve IS an American in the film (I thought he might be because of the accent), but he mentions repeatedly in the film that he works for British Intelligence, so I wasn't sure. In any case, all his superiors are British, and the fact that Steve is actually an American is basically a footnote and barely comes up aside from the line I already mentioned.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 10:42:54 PM by Tomato »

Offline crimsonquill

  • Sound Master
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2281
  • One Voice To Rule Them All
    • CrimsonQuill Productions
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #47 on: June 08, 2017, 11:42:32 PM »
Quote
Up to that date, America had tried to keep out of World War One though she had traded with nations involved in the war but unrestricted submarine warfare, introduced by the Germans on January 9th, 1917, was the primary issue that caused Woodrow Wilson to ask Congress to declare war on Germany on April 2nd.

The above quote taken from an article on World War I pretty much shows that American military pretty much didn't become fully involved until International waters were being threatened. Steve Trevor was just an American Intelligence Officer who probably got involved because of hearing about everything going on in the front line and what his dad told him. He volunteered to join British Intelligence because he was an outsider that probably has no files on record to identify him and probably knew enough languages to make him blend in where he needed to be useful.

----------

Now, Since folks are chatting up ideas for Wonder Woman 2..

I had an interesting concept. Since Patty Jenkins has been talking up about bringing in Linda Carter and doing more nods towards the '77 Wonder Woman show, I was thinking that she returned to Themyscira many years after the war ended to discover that while they managed to avoid being discovered by the invading soldiers chasing Trevor.. the revelation of the horrible war that men of the outside world brought to the island didn't set well with some of the Amazon women who watched their friends and family murdered by firearms. Some of these warriors study the weapons and machines left behind and decide to seek their own vengeance against mankind. World War II came and went without Wonder Woman since she was back dealing with royal problems at home but discovering that some of her fellow Amazons left the island required her to leave once again.

Diana finds herself following the renegade warriors all the way to America and right in the middle of the Vietnam War period. This presents another world which she isn't prepared for at all because she is seeing soldiers once again returning home from war in body bags and missing limbs but nobody is treating the warriors with respect. Soldiers are being "drafted" to go fight in a war in a very small part of the world and being hated for doing it. Hippies and Free Love are a huge part of the American world and they want nothing to do with fighting. They want the same free spirit that she saw on Themyscira but Diana doesn't get the whole drug and Rock N Roll spirit that is part of that culture. She wants to join the fight and help turn the tide like she did once before but also discovers that the renegade Amazons are part of the huge Woman's Rights movement going on and they are trying to rally an army of women to take back the world from men.

Not really sure how I would tackle the third act or which villains I would introduce in this time period. Something tells me that Cheeta and Giganta would be among these renegade Amazons and their transformations would be experimental in some form (or using magical artifacts they stole from some vault on Themyscira).

- CQ
« Last Edit: June 08, 2017, 11:48:30 PM by crimsonquill »
"He said let there be light... CLICK! It was a lightbulb. And It was good."

Offline HarryTrotter

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2017, 03:59:47 AM »
That is weird.

That America is the leader of everything right and just in the world?
You have been watching too much CNN,mate.
On the actual movie,I just can muster energy to go and see it.Im might be really great,but I lost all interest in DC movies,tbh.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2017, 04:07:14 AM by Spade »
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline Tomato

  • The Original AA
  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5803
  • Hufflepuff Pride
    • Hero Force
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2017, 02:48:12 PM »
Speaking of WW2...

Gal Gadot has said she will not be returning to the next Wonder Woman film if Bret Ratner is in any way involved, due to his demonstrative sexual harassment and overall scummy behavior. Given how amazing WW was and how well it did, I think it's fair to say that we'll shortly be saying goodbye to the man who made his career on comic movies, and who once claimed She-Hulk only existed to "give Hulk someone to (sleep with)." Especially since WB was already cutting him out due to the sexual harassment claims.

Offline HarryTrotter

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2017, 02:57:49 PM »
A lot of that coming to light these day...
Thou,wasnt that Goyers statment?
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline Tomato

  • The Original AA
  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5803
  • Hufflepuff Pride
    • Hero Force
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2017, 03:00:05 PM »
Was it? I think you may be right. For some reason, I attributed it to Ratner. Either way, still the idiot who gave us The Last Stand, a movie I still cannot watch in a single sitting.

Offline HarryTrotter

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2694
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2017, 04:03:40 PM »
And the Rush Hour trilogy.Its a pretty weird body of works there.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline Silver Shocker

  • The Shining Savior
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 2243
  • Better Call Saul!
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2017, 11:02:16 PM »
That was Goyer who said that. I mentioned that in an earlier thread when I brought up what Goyer said about not wanting to include J'onn J'onnz in the DCEU.

Not that Ratner doesn't have his own separate scandals.
-"Wherever kindness is MOCKED--and CRUELTY is worn as a badge of honor--THERE you will find them. So WEAK inside,

that they cannot imagine that TRUE strength of SPIRIT--can even exist."
~Peregrine, describing Hydra, U.S. Avengers #8

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14434
    • The Greylands
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2017, 11:15:46 PM »
Wow, that's very interesting.  Yeah, good for her.  It's good that she's got enough leverage to push for that kind of change, though it's a shame that common decency didn't already have the same result.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline Tomato

  • The Original AA
  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 5803
  • Hufflepuff Pride
    • Hero Force
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #55 on: November 15, 2017, 12:00:27 AM »
To be fair, it sounds like his contract with WB was ending and they weren't going to renew it given the harassment claims. Gal Gadot's rumored intervention was just the final nail.

Also yeah, I don't know how I managed to flip goyer and ratner in my brain, outside of both being scumbaggy members of Hollywood. Either way, good riddance.

Offline catwhowalksbyhimself

  • Lord of Procrastination
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7674
    • Freedom Force Forever
Re: Wonder Woman Movie
« Reply #56 on: November 15, 2017, 03:51:24 AM »
Speaking of WW2...

Gal Gadot has said she will not be returning to the next Wonder Woman film if Bret Ratner is in any way involved, due to his demonstrative sexual harassment and overall scummy behavior. Given how amazing WW was and how well it did, I think it's fair to say that we'll shortly be saying goodbye to the man who made his career on comic movies, and who once claimed She-Hulk only existed to "give Hulk someone to (sleep with)." Especially since WB was already cutting him out due to the sexual harassment claims.

Turn out this wasn't ever true.  She was already committed and contracted to the next film.  Apparently that was just a rumor.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

speakingofgeek.freedomforceforever.com