Please login or register.

Login with email, password and session length
 

News:

Happy 15th Birthday, Freedom Force!


Author Topic: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread  (Read 3284 times)

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« on: July 07, 2016, 12:42:48 AM »
Howdy gents, I appreciate y'all helping me out with this!  So, I have not had nearly as much time to balance this mod as I did with the DCUG, which took shape in a much different way.  In addition, my design philosophy evolved from my first mod to this, and even from the beginning of this project to its end.  Because of that, I'm very interested in balance and accuracy, which is why we're starting this testing early.  This will be an alpha build.  The campaigns won't all be finished, many of the strings entries won't be written, and much remains only lightly tested.  Still, 99% of the characters will be in and fully set up.  I'll be trying to get this thing packed up tonight or tomorrow, so look for PMs soon.

So, what do I want y'all to look for?  Well, first and foremost, of course, functionality.  Make sure that all of the characters are actually working, that they don't have any broken animations or missing FX or anything like that.  Essentially, just keep an eye out for anything weird.  After that, balance issues, but I've got some specific points.  I'll list them out and update them as I think of new things:

  • I've got concerns about the two different styles of invulnerability.  I'm not sure that they balance properly.  The first is Physical Resistance+low invl., the second is material type (usually stone)+PR+low invl.  I've got particular concerns about Colossus, the Blob, Thing, and Namor.
  • Character AI: if anyone is being particularly stupid, let me know.  Additionally, if anyone out there wants to do some AI work, let me know.
  • Hydra/AIM: Ideally, these guys are asymmetrically balanced.  They should do different things, but still be relatively evenly matched.  They're very new, though, so they probably need some tweaking.
  • Big bads, like Galactus and Thanos: these guys are also new, and the higher power tiers haven't received much testing, throw them against all kinds of stuff and see if it feels right.
  • The Invaders and Avengers (and to a lesser degree the X-Men) were the first guys I worked on, and there has been a powercreep in the mod that I've tried to keep in check.  Make sure they feel right, and let me know if they need tweaking.
  • I'm not sure about Storm.  She feels a bit off, and I'm not entirely sure why.
  • Pink textures: I think I got everything converted to .DDS, but I may have missed something
  • SS Fer De Lance: Something went screwy in the conversion process, and she's all reflect-y.  Look out for this and other stuff like it.

More to come. 
More to come as I think of it.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2016, 10:56:20 PM by BentonGrey »
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2016, 04:13:14 AM »
For invulnerability, as a general rule of thumb, I don't ever mix all three types of resistances (Physical Resistance, Invulnerability, and Material).  Usually, it's just two of the three, otherwise it tends to get a bit weird. I feel that the reason for this is the bugs with Physical Resistance and Invulnerability, both which I've been looking for workarounds to circumvent this issue. The current issue with the two is when a character is hit by an attack that could KO them, their attributes are ignored.  Say Thor has Invulnerable 05 and Physical Resistance.  This combo is pretty strong and lets him stay in combat much longer than it would appear. Now say he's at 35 health and gets hit by a Crushing attack that does 40 damage (ignoring any resistances).  The attack SHOULD only do 15 damage to him (40/2 = 20-5 = 15), but it would KO him instead. It just doesn't feel right, especially if Iron Man (Metal + Invulnerable 05) would only take 15 damage (the material isn't ignored).

Now, the workarounds are these:
  • For Invulnerability: Add the invulnerability's rank to the characters health, e.g. Iron Man has Invulnerable 05 and 160 health = Iron Man now has Invulnerable 05 and 165 health.  What this does is it creates a buffer of health that will even out the one-hit KO's that a hero might suffer. Say a character has Invulnerable 15, 15 health, and gets hit by an attack of 16. Logically, he should be able to take 15 hits (15/(16-15)=15), but instead, he dies in one hit. Now, if we added 15 health (his invulnerability rank) to his current hp (for a max of 30), he will take 15 hits exactly, as it should be.
  • For Physical Resistance: This one isn't as clever.  Really, it's just doubling the health.  Double health = twice as many hits to take down which is what the attribute basically does.  Say a character has 15 health and gets hit by an attack of 20. She should only take 10 damage and be left with 5 hp, but she'd be KO'd.  Now say she had double the amount of health (30).  She takes an attack of 20 and she has 10 health left, which is, for the most part, the same as a character with Physical Resistance and a health of 5. They would both be KO'd by an attack of 10 (which is good since 10/2 = 5, so the character with PR takes the right amount of damage.

These workarounds give characters the invulnerability and resilience that they're supposed to have. The only downsides that I can think of are that Mental Damage attributes will require more hits to KO these characters (especially the PR ones) and a player could tell what level of invulnerability a character has by looking at their health (a health of 112? They have Invulnerable 02), which a mod-maker might not want. These concerns aren't too serious in my mind, but I think that it might help alleviate any balance concerns that might be rearing their ugly heads.

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 12:16:35 AM »
I'll respond to the good feedback y'all have given me a little later, but at the moment I just wanted to let everyone who is following this know that the alpha build is out to my testers!  Now I'm going to go collapse for a while, because today has been really rough.  :P
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 10:11:51 PM »
Well, I looked over the new version and I have to tell ya that I am VERY excited to playtest all of these characters! So many new people and powers to try out :wacko:

I haven't playtested any of them yet because I've been looking for bugs and any other issues that might prevent playtesting from going smoothly, but for the most part, a lot of it looks good.

The only main balance change I would suggest is making all water-based attacks do Cold damage for a variety of reason, the primary one being that it would work much better against Fire characters.

I'm wondering how the Invaders would do against a Super Skrull or how the Squadron would handle AIM and Hydra. And let's see how many Moloids it takes to defeat Multiple Man :P

EDIT: Well, I just had Cap and Bucky fight two Atlantean Troopers (Atlanteans with tridents) and two Atlantean Warriors (Atlanteans with energy guns) and boy was that difficult! Granted, it was on Very Hard, but still! I'll run more tests but for fodder, these guys are really strong :P

EDIT 2: Did a few fights between Dr Strange and the Leader (Magic vs Science!) and the Leader won every time, hands down. I feel that this isn't right and that it should be Dr Strange who edges out. One of the factors was that Dr Strange's FFActiveDefense was set to the default for the attribute, so it didn't last too long or do very much to protect him, lol. The other factor was those blasted Mech Men the Leader has. Curse your robotic abominations, Leader! CURSE YOU!!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 01:54:58 AM by spydermann93 »

Offline Cyber Burn

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7890
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2016, 06:35:32 AM »
Since I'm starting to doze off a bit here, I'll post my some notes tomorrow. But just a quick note, scrolling throough the characters, there were a handful that were missing. Their name was there, it looked like the hero file was there, but no character.

Also, the shortcut to start is set up for Steam, whereas I',m using the Disk. Maybe you could include Icons for all 3 versions? Disk, Steam, and GOG?

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2016, 06:37:47 AM »
Since I'm starting to doze off a bit here, I'll post my some notes tomorrow. But just a quick note, scrolling throough the characters, there were a handful that were missing. Their name was there, it looked like the hero file was there, but no character.

Also, the shortcut to start is set up for Steam, whereas I',m using the Disk. Maybe you could include Icons for all 3 versions? Disk, Steam, and GOG?

That's strange. Everybody save two or three show up for me. Did you remove your current version of Marvel Adventures and replace it with the test version?

I'm using the disk version, btw.

The characters that don't show up are Baron Zemo, Princess Python, and Sharon Carter.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 06:51:59 AM by spydermann93 »

Offline Jimaras8

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 743
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2016, 10:20:12 AM »
All this goodness makes me jealous hahaha. Marvel goodness over 9000  :D. The character thing appeared to me in the previous version of MA and i thought it was a skope thing. Have you guys checked if the skopes are in the library?

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2016, 02:45:38 PM »
The ones that I'm missing are not.

And good to see you around again, Jim :D

Offline Cyber Burn

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7890
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 03:33:30 PM »
I was totally wiped out yesterday, so I'll go back through it today and make sure I make a list of which Characters are missing, then I'll post back here.

Like Spyder said, welcome back Jim.

Offline Jimaras8

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 743
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2016, 06:57:17 PM »
Nice to see you again guys. I was self banished after i lost access for nearly 8 months since last November. I have the game purchased again and i have a new pc so i'm fully operational now  :D. Have you both done clean install of the test version? Delete the whole MA folder and install him again?

Offline Cyber Burn

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7890
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2016, 08:46:56 PM »
You definitely need a clean install here, completely from scratch.


That's strange. Everybody save two or three show up for me. Did you remove your current version of Marvel Adventures and replace it with the test version?

I'm using the disk version, btw.

The characters that don't show up are Baron Zemo, Princess Python, and Sharon Carter.

OK, being over tired last night, I counted a few extras. It was Sharon Carter and Baron Zemo, and the Small Python Snake. There was also an empty spot for a "Wall Carving" under the Villains Section, but I don't know what that is. Then, back under the Heroes Section, there is also an extra spot for another "SuperCollider" which seemed empty, as well as a spot for a Character called "Thermite". I thought that the "Thermite" Character may have been the one from the Squadron Supreme, but looking more closely, I don't think so.

After going over Spyder's notes, he caught most everything I did and a whole lot more. A couple of quick notes before I have to get back to my little guy:

1.) "Wasp" has the wrong costume, she's using the Standard Skin (I think), but needs one of the others.
2.) The "Fer-de-Lance_skope_h20" just needs the "Female_Gren_refl.dds" colored all black, and it'll be good as new.
3.) The "Turret_Hypno" is a black and white blob, I'll see if I can find some time to find the files for that and get it fixed either tonight or tomorrow.
4.) Don't know if it matters, but the Invaders' Junior Torch is spelled "Toro" rather than "Torro" (But that's just my OCD kicking in).

More as Time (And Children) permit.  :D

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2016, 11:25:09 PM »
Ah, ok! I thought you were talking about new characters :P

Yeah, I went through my version and I see that I'm missing those too. :P

Anyways, I was having some fun with Moon Knight vs Bullseye, and boy, what a matchup that was! I did 3 rounds, best two out of three, and each round was so very close that the last fight was getting me really pumped about who would beat whom. For all three rounds, I was playing as Moon Knight and the AI controlled Bullseye. I decided that they would fight it out in the Park, the map that comes with :ffvstr:

In the first round, most of the fight took place in the park itself. Bullseye opened up with several dozen playing cards, very few of them actually missing (true to his name, lol). A combination of my agility and Carbonadium Armor kept him from taking too much damage, but as anybody would guess, playing a throwing game with Bullseye is a terrible idea.  As I crept in closer, watching for any projectiles Bullseye sent my way, I would throw a Crescent Shuriken (forgot the name of the power :P) to try and stun Bullseye. Lo and behold, I actually hit him and he was stunned! I ran as fast as I could towards my stunned foe and used the fists that have taken down so many goons to lay down some hurt. All three hits connected, doing substantial damage to Bullseye, but he got out of his stun, stunned me, and ran away towards safety. As I recovered, he chucked a nice, hefty grenade at my face.  Unfortunately, my armor did not save me and I took a lot of damage.  Using a Heroic Revival, I charged at Bullseye with full health and renewed vigor.  I shoot a Wrist Bomb at him in hopes of knocking him off of his feet and doing some damage, but he dodged the projectile and it took out a chunk of a nearby building.  Wasting no time, I continued forward under a hail of cards and bullets, my armor protecting me from most of them, but still getting damaged here and there.  Once I caught up to the maniac and stunned him with a combo of my Truncheon Stick, I unleashed another assault of the Fists of Khonshu and with no more than 5 health, I took the win! Go Moon Knight!

In the second round, the fight tended to be on the streets around the park with both of us dipping and weaving behind cars, streetlights, and trees for cover, but it wasn't any less brutal.  Bullseye felt a bit more, "explosive" this round; he kept throwing grenades and blowing up cars.  Needless to say, all of these explosions was taxing on my health.  I kept my distance from cars and fire hydrants, but stuck to streetlights and trees.  Most of the cards Bullseye threw would be blocked by my new friends.  Eventually, I was able to get close on Bullseye, but my entire combo missed! Oh no!! Bullseye then unleashed a flurry of fists that not even Daredevil would've dodged, landing blow after blow on me.  And Lady Luck seemed to be against me for this barrage as my armor didn't protect me from a single blow. I had to use my Heroic Revival and Bullseye was still at about 80% health. It's not looking good.  Hoping for a better combo, I overpowered my Fists of Khonshu to try and deliver a devastating amount of damage to try and catch up to Bullseye.  Unfortunately, he dodge two of the three blows, and the one blow that landed did little damage.  Needless to say, Bullseye slipped away, threw a few more bombs, and the match was over.  Lester got his revenge, but the match isn't over yet!

The final match was quite a change of pace compared to the last two and it was more in my favor! In a strange turn of events, the fight was taken to the alleys between the buildings on the outskirts of the park. Lucky me! Building corners kept me pretty safe from Bullseye's pesky projectiles, but it didn't soften Bullseye's blows.  The exchange of fists and kicks was absolutely brutal! Both of us were landing overpowered blows, tiring ourselves out to where we were both under one bar of energy for most of the fight, stunning each other with solid strikes and brutal haymakers. This time, I barely got off my Heroic Revival before Bullseye landed what would've been a killing blow.  Too close to call!  With Bullseye really low on health, I decided to push my luck and go for an overpower combo to end this.  As luck would have it, I was stunned by overexerting myself, leaving myself wide open! I was thinking, "Oh no, he's going to run for it and blast me with a grenade."  Lester, however, wanted to play CQC some more and landed a rather brutal combo, leaving me with 3 health left. Just as he was about to land another blow, I recovered and was able to land a stunning blow on him and then finish him off with a nicely placed Truncheon!

So, in the end, I, playing as Moon Knight, took the match with a mere 3 health in this round and no more than 5 in the first match! Wow, what a fight! Moon Knight's melee tenacity and amazing armor kept him in a fight that Bullseye otherwise would've won, hands down.  Can't wait to try some more matchups!

If anybody has suggestions, please, let me know and I'll post pics of the fight :D
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 12:20:40 AM by spydermann93 »

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2016, 03:21:36 AM »
Excellent work team!  Y'all are doing great!  I'm going to respond to things in sections here so I can keep myself organized. 

First, great report Spyder, and thanks so much for doing the work of fixing the powers and character entries for me.  That saved me a lot of work, and I really appreciate it.  It seems that the issue with the power names is caused by my importing this batch of characters through EZ Hero.  It doesn't seem to have reliably truncated all of the names, and I see that it seems it is only this latest batch of characters that have the issue.

-Just so I can make sure I'm getting everything, the only ones with this issue are those you listed in your bug report, right?  I've got to go through and fix their strings entries, and I don't want to miss anything.
-The characters missing meshes are just those that somehow didn't get copied into my mod folder.  I'm preparing an update with them now.
-I think some of these things are likely artifacts from my having to go to a backup after things got corrupted and from the piecemeal method of adding these new characters.  Fortunately, they are relatively minor so far.
-Good guesses on the missing attributes (caused by my adding characters with custom attributes through EZHero, methinks).  I'm not sure what I had for Deadpool, but circumstances make me suspect Weapon X, though that is only partially appropriate.  What do y'all think, Weapon X (Fast Healing, Lesser Regeneration, and Tracking <doesn't fit>) or Regenerative (probably too powerful)?
-Yes, Toro's Heat Zone is a density attack.  That came from the HF I based him on, and I rather liked it.  It represents a flame hero 'turning up the heat' and making movement difficult around them.  It's a bit of a stretch, but it helps to make him unique.
-UJ's knife attack: Yeah, I never got around to fixing that.  (CB: Would you mind skoping a knife onto the mesh?  Murs gave his permission to add one to his skin ages ago, but I never got around to it.)
-Flesh seems the best choice for Vision, balance-wise.  Options?
-Domino as villain: She's hunting Gambit in his solo mission, but I suppose I can put her in as a hero if folks would prefer.
-Somehow Annihilus's animation entries got screwed up...weird.  Everyone keep an eye out for any animations that don't seem to fit, at least in this latest batch of characters.
-Batroc's new keys didn't sync from one computer to the next!  Darn it!  I had changed half of his entries before I realized the problem.  :P
-I'm fairly certain Warskrull only had 4 attributes.
-Dr. Strange should have had an FFActive Defense, so that is fixed now.

I'll address your balance suggestions and mesh suggestions soon.

CB, some quick responses to your observations:
-What do you mean by Wasp having the wrong costume?  She should be set on random, so it should be different each time (bit of a joke, that).
-Can you send me a file for Fer de Lance to fix her?
-Hmm, I think the hypno turret may just be an artifact from a previous mod...I'm not sure what that would go to...to be on the safe side, I'm adding the appropriate files to the update.
-Of course it matters!  I'll fix that.  :)

Requests, these will be crossposted to my thread:
Does anyone have the missing Stormbreaker texture?  (or the original fx folder, whatever)
Can someone skope me some flying melee keys for Gren's Count Nefaria?

God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2016, 03:41:03 AM »
Excellent work team!  Y'all are doing great!  I'm going to respond to things in sections here so I can keep myself organized. 

First, great report Spyder, and thanks so much for doing the work of fixing the powers and character entries for me.  That saved me a lot of work, and I really appreciate it.  It seems that the issue with the power names is caused by my importing this batch of characters through EZ Hero.  It doesn't seem to have reliably truncated all of the names, and I see that it seems it is only this latest batch of characters that have the issue.

Not a problem. I'm just glad that I can help :)

-Just so I can make sure I'm getting everything, the only ones with this issue are those you listed in your bug report, right?  I've got to go through and fix their strings entries, and I don't want to miss anything.

Yes, everything I saw with that bug was listed in the report. If I didn't list it, I missed it :P

-Good guesses on the missing attributes (caused by my adding characters with custom attributes through EZHero, methinks).  I'm not sure what I had for Deadpool, but circumstances make me suspect Weapon X, though that is only partially appropriate.  What do y'all think, Weapon X (Fast Healing, Lesser Regeneration, and Tracking <doesn't fit>) or Regenerative (probably too powerful)?

I'm going to have to play around with Deadpool some more, but I can kind of go for his own twist on a combo attribute (Deranged Maniac, or something :P)

-Yes, Toro's Heat Zone is a density attack.  That came from the HF I based him on, and I rather liked it.  It represents a flame hero 'turning up the heat' and making movement difficult around them.  It's a bit of a stretch, but it helps to make him unique.

Ah, ok. That's actually pretty darn clever, now that I get to thinking about it. I usually just accomplished heat exhaustion through stuns :lol:

-Flesh seems the best choice for Vision, balance-wise.  Options?

I'll playtest the Vision some and see what I can come up with. If anything, we could just add "Metal" to his sub-type via m25ai

-Domino as villain: She's hunting Gambit in his solo mission, but I suppose I can put her in as a hero if folks would prefer.

Ah, makes sense to me. Doesn't matter too much to me, honestly. Though, she was an X-Man for a while, right?  I'll see what Cyber and the others think.

-Batroc's new keys didn't sync from one computer to the next!  Darn it!  I had changed half of his entries before I realized the problem.  :P

Haha, figured that was the case :lol:

-I'm fairly certain Warskrull only had 4 attributes.

I may be remembering it wrong, but I think that the reason why I said that he was missing one was because there was a blank attribute in the middle of his other ones. I'll have to check again.

-Dr. Strange should have had an FFActive Defense, so that is fixed now.

 :thumbup:

I'll address your balance suggestions and mesh suggestions soon.

Take your time, Benton ^_^

CB, some quick responses to your observations:
-What do you mean by Wasp having the wrong costume?  She should be set on random, so it should be different each time (bit of a joke, that).

Yeah, she does seem to change her costume a lot :lol:

Requests, these will be crossposted to my thread:
Does anyone have the missing Stormbreaker texture?  (or the original fx folder, whatever)

I think that I might? I'll have to see. I know that I have a Stormbreaker FX that Gren made somewhere, though

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2016, 04:08:45 AM »
Great after action report there, Spyder!  That's really fun, and I love such you're having such a good time with my little project.  Very awesome!

Let me know what you think of DP.  For the moment, I've just gone with Weapon X, but I want some feedback on that.

For the Atlantians, I was looking to create a real force to be reckoned with, but I may have gone too far.  I definitely want some more feedback on them.

Good idea on adding metal to Vision's AI.  I'll do that and include it in the next update.

CB, great idea on including multiple shortcuts.  Would one of y'all send me your disk shortcut?
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2016, 04:11:20 AM »
Here's the pathing for the disk shortcut:

Code: [Select]
Target: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Irrational Games\Freedom Force vs The 3rd Reich\ffvt3r.exe" -game MA -log
Start in: "C:\Program Files (x86)\Irrational Games\Freedom Force vs The 3rd Reich\MA\..\"

And that should do it ^_^

EDIT: Oh, also! If you want all powers to be level three, set the character's Tier A and Tier B to "6" and all of their powers will be level three when playing in the campaign and rumble room. It will say that all of their powers are level three if you view them in the Character builder, but if you look at them in the Rumble Room, you'll see that all of their last powers are level one rather than three.

EDIT 2:
For the Atlantians, I was looking to create a real force to be reckoned with, but I may have gone too far.  I definitely want some more feedback on them.

Well, you certainly achieved that goal :lol:
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 04:22:57 AM by spydermann93 »

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2016, 04:22:04 AM »
Ahh, an excellent piece of advice, Spyder.  I didn't know that.  I'll go through and fix that eventually.

And thanks for the paths.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline Cyber Burn

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7890
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2016, 04:31:05 AM »
Not feeling to great, so I'll keep this short.

I believe that there was a glitch in the Stormbringer FX that was released with Beta Ray Bill, though I thought I had released a fixed version, I'll check on that and get back to you. (I'm assuming that is what you're referring to here)

Vision - I would go with Flesh. I had a thought process behind this, and as soon as my head stops pounding, I'll try to remember where I was going with that.

Wasp - Random Costumes makes sense, but every time I chose her, I had that Black Costume. You may want to label one of her Costumes "Random", and add a few more, that should solve that issue.

Deadpool - "Deranged Maniac", I like that.

Domino - During the period when she was introduced, she was a Mercenary. So though she is hunting Gambit in the Mod, I think I'd still prefer to see her as a Hero.

Ferdelance - Not a problem, I'll send you the blacked out file tomorrow, maybe Monday, depending on how I'm feeling.


Ninja'd on the File Paths.


Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2016, 05:31:07 PM »
Crimsonquill has asked to join our endeavor, and I have gladly accepted.  He's going to help me specifically with voices, as well as with other balancing.

Okay gents, I've got all or most of the bugs/weird stuff cleaned up.  Let's talk balance.

-I think CB's idea is a good one.  I've got Vis set as a metal subtype, so that should do the trick.  I'm pretty happy with his power level, but I'm open to suggestions.

-Wasp: Weird, I thought I had a lot more skins in her folder, but I can't seem to find any.  Also, I don't see a black costume in here...

-What would a Deadpool attribute be?

-Domino is now a hero. 

-Ferdelance: No hurry at all, CB.  This is not exactly a big deal.

-What do we think on the 'water as cold' issue?  Spyder makes a fair case, but I'd like to hear some more thoughts.

-Knockback: Spyder's point here is also well taken.  FF2 is a bit weird about knockback (one of the things I would fix if I could), but at the same time, I don't want Daredevil knocking a thug across the map, just so he could reliably knock The Thing off of his feet.  Thoughts?

-Please run some Abomination/Hulk matches to give their stats a shakedown and comparison.  Spyder may be right, but I'd like to see how they handle 'in earnest.'

-Bullseye: I didn't know it was only his legs, very interesting!  I'm a little hesitant to remove solid skeleton, because it really makes him more dangerous as a foe for Daredevil.  I'm willing to bend accuracy for gameplay and balance, but not needlessly.  Thoughts?

-Loki also needs an active defense, darn it!  That's fixed.

-Moloids: You're right, but I worry that giving them 2s would make them too little of a threat.  As is, they can barely hurt the Thing.  I've lowered their endurance, and I'll do some testing.

-Blastaar has minimal (02) invl., so I'm inclined to leave it.  This means that he can't be hurt by, say, a gunshot, but Thing's punch can still hurt him.  This seems somewhat fitting to me.  I'm open to more feedback, though.

-Thanos: Hmm...I really hate FF2 active defenses, so I'm loathe to use one here.  I could give him an FF1 AD, though.  Spyder, why do you think I should use the former?

-Nazi Vampires: Nope, that would make them too strong.  These guys are just mooks.

-Hyperion: You're probably right.  I've tweaked that.

-Surtur: Fair point, I've made him a bit tougher.  Please test.

Other thoughts?
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2016, 06:31:41 PM »
I'll be replying to more of this in a bit, but Hulk vs Abomination fights seem to be pretty fun, at least for the few matches I've tried. I need to test the two more, though.

Offline Cyber Burn

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7890
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2016, 06:43:51 PM »
Welcome aboard CQ.  :D

Quote
-UJ's knife attack: Yeah, I never got around to fixing that.  (CB: Would you mind skoping a knife onto the mesh?  Murs gave his permission to add one to his skin ages ago, but I never got around to it.)

I missed this earlier, I may have to switch the base Mesh to get the Knife Animations, but otherwise, not a problem.

Wasp - I kept getting the Standard Skin, the Black and Yellow with the Red Goggles and Antennae.

Hand Ninjas - I had started updating them a while back, I never previewed them because I haven't completed the set, but I have the 2 that are in the Mod finished if you want those. Just minor updates to the Skopes and Skins, nothing major.

Quote
-What would a Deadpool attribute be?

Commits suicide to confuse his opponent and then regenerates and goes in for the attack?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On that note, I think I'm going back to bed, these Migraines are killing me. Sorry I'm not more help here Benton, definitely wasn't planning on this. :banghead:

Offline daglob

  • Shape-Shifting Silly-Putty Android
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 7487
  • Da Glob
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2016, 07:00:15 PM »
For some reason (drivers, I guess) my computer has quit displaying some skins unless there is an alpha channel that is "white" on it, I get black skins most often. This has started in the last few months (don't remember when, one day it was just "Weird, why is it doing that?"), I'm guessing that a driver update did it, but I'm not sure (with this Frankenstein of a computer, there is no telling). You might try this to see if it's the problem. Of course, it may have nothing to do with it.

I've been adding the channel as I came across the need.

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2016, 07:08:34 PM »
Crimsonquill has asked to join our endeavor, and I have gladly accepted.  He's going to help me specifically with voices, as well as with other balancing.

Okay gents, I've got all or most of the bugs/weird stuff cleaned up.  Let's talk balance.

-I think CB's idea is a good one.  I've got Vis set as a metal subtype, so that should do the trick.  I'm pretty happy with his power level, but I'm open to suggestions.

Yeah, I'm good with this change. I wasn't thinking about subtypes at the time :P

-What would a Deadpool attribute be?

I would have to think about this and test it, but I'm thinking Lesser Regeneration (Plus), Immortal, Mad?, and Acrobatic (he can do some pretty outrageous acrobatic feats)

-Knockback: Spyder's point here is also well taken.  FF2 is a bit weird about knockback (one of the things I would fix if I could), but at the same time, I don't want Daredevil knocking a thug across the map, just so he could reliably knock The Thing off of his feet.  Thoughts?

Even at Extreme, a character with a strength of 3 wouldn't be knocking goons around the map, just a few meters, at most. Kind of like how goons get tossed around in TV shows.

-Please run some Abomination/Hulk matches to give their stats a shakedown and comparison.  Spyder may be right, but I'd like to see how they handle 'in earnest.'

I'll be running more tests on these two, but like I mentioned before, it seems pretty decent enough. I might have been wrong about needing to bump down Abomination's defenses.

-Bullseye: I didn't know it was only his legs, very interesting!  I'm a little hesitant to remove solid skeleton, because it really makes him more dangerous as a foe for Daredevil.  I'm willing to bend accuracy for gameplay and balance, but not needlessly.  Thoughts?

That's strange, when I was doing my Moon Knight vs Bullseye fight, he didn't have Solid Skeleton. Maybe you changed him in the update you sent us, or maybe I'm just going crazy :wacko:

I'll look more into how he does against Daredevil. Against Moon Knight, his projectiles were deadly even with the armor Moon Knight had :P


-Moloids: You're right, but I worry that giving them 2s would make them too little of a threat.  As is, they can barely hurt the Thing.  I've lowered their endurance, and I'll do some testing.

You're probably right on that, but I'll be more than happy to do more testing on that

-Blastaar has minimal (02) invl., so I'm inclined to leave it.  This means that he can't be hurt by, say, a gunshot, but Thing's punch can still hurt him.  This seems somewhat fitting to me.  I'm open to more feedback, though.

Makes sense to me!

-Thanos: Hmm...I really hate FF2 active defenses, so I'm loathe to use one here.  I could give him an FF1 AD, though.  Spyder, why do you think I should use the former?

You're probably right, here. However, Thanos' shields are nothing to scoff at. Sure, they failed to resist TWO full blasts from Galactus and were buckling under the might of a Thor under Warrior's Madness and the Power Gem, but withstanding those two for even a moment is incredible.

Perhaps just an FFActiveDefense (75) would work, like Cap's shield?


-Nazi Vampires: Nope, that would make them too strong.  These guys are just mooks.

Yeah, you're right about that

-Surtur: Fair point, I've made him a bit tougher.  Please test.

You got it ^_^

Other thoughts?

I'll be testing out more characters and scenarios later today, and I'll post more as I find/think about them

Offline OrWolvie1

  • Sr. Member
  • Posts: 328
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #23 on: July 11, 2016, 12:57:42 AM »
Sounds like things are progressing well for you BG. Looking forward to checking it out when you the all the kinks worked out.  :)

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2016, 02:33:07 AM »
Ok, so I was testing the Hulk out more and the only real balancing change I would make is give him Unheroic. His stats and attributes seem fine to me. The only thing is that he only ever gets to about half HP before winning.

In my several test cases against Abomination (on Very Hard since our stats are equal), I'd never have to use my heroic before I defeated the Abomination (actually, I used it once in one match out of 6). I would get close to low health, but I would beat him. I'm not sure how you want it balanced between the two, but the classic idea behind Abomination was that he was stronger than the Hulk initially, but slowly got overpowered. It doesn't quite feel like Abomination meets that design philosophy, and here, it isn't quite his fault. It's probably the Defense Mechanism attribute (which is really tricky to balance with any character) causing the most issues, but I really do like seeing Hulk get stronger as the fight goes.

Abomination actually plays fairly well; better than how I initially thought he would play (not quite as strong). Maybe increasing Abomination's endurance to 8 would make him better against the Hulk, but I then tested Hulk against other characters such as Thor and Hercules and he seemed to win against them pretty solidly and didn't take more than half of his health in damage. Maybe that's how you want him to be. I know that you told me before that you want the Hulk to require a team to take him down, and if that's the case, then I'd say bump Abomination up just a little so he can give Hulk more of a challenge.

I'll be testing both Jade Goliaths against a multitude of foes to see how they match up against the rest, but that's where I stand for right now.

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2016, 03:09:55 AM »
Thanks Or, I'm really looking forward to getting this behemoth done! :D

Okay guys, little announcement here....the X-Men campaign is done!  I just finished testing the last mission, and it is finished!  I am really excited about that.  I'm pretty pleased with both the storyline and the gameplay from this campaign.  I think it turned out pretty nicely, and I'm really glad to have it done!  I've had the darn thing written for...gosh, at least five or six months!  That means that all that is left for me to test of extant material is the last Avengers mission.  I could release it after that, but, if I can find the energy, I'm going to try to add at least one more FF mission, and perhaps a little bit more.  We are really close guys!  Keep it up!  :thumbup:

Spyder-

Deadpool: Hmm, good suggestion.  I find Mad rather annoying from a gameplay standpoint, though it does feel fitting.  I think I might go with your healing combo and Acrobatic.  I don't know why I didn't think of the latter to begin with.  I'll put something together with the next update.

KB: Hmm, I will think about it.  Why don't you choose a character as a test case and let me know what the change really looks like?

Bullseye: Ha!  Well, I guess that's a non-issue then.  I have no idea when I made that change...too much to keep up with.  :P

Thanos:  Here is where my real lack of familiarity with the character hurts me.  I've only really seen him in the Captain Marvel/Avengers crossover where he got the Cosmic Cube.  So, you think a shield is really fitting?  If that's the consensus, then I'll add in a solid one, but I'm a bit concerned about making him unbeatable, even with heavy hitters.  That's why we're testing balance, I suppose!

Hulk:  Great feedback and reportage here.  Thor should be able to do more to him than that, but if Thor tries to go toe to toe with Hulk, it seems to me like he should lose.  Interesting.  I'm okay with bumping Abomination up, now that we see the results.  I'm open to other thoughts on balancing Hulk, but he's actually one of the characters I spent the most time on, and I'm still not 100% happy with him.

God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2016, 03:19:07 AM »
I'm going to playtest Hulk, Abomination, and Thanos so I can get a good feeling for them.

Quick question: Hulk's defense mechanism is supposed to be "StrengthAndResistanceThroughPain," right? I just want to make sure I'm testing him correctly. :P

Thanos should be able to hold his own against Thor, Hulk, and Silver Surfer pretty, but he's still a fair bit weaker than Odin and Galactus. I'll mess around with him and see where he falls and make sure that he isn't unstoppable when matched against a good selection of characters.

And that's exciting news about the X-Men campaign! Can't wait to see what you've done with it :thumbup:

EDIT: Also, there's an issue with Hercules where if you use him in the Rumble Room, none of the FFX3 attributes work. I think I found the candidate, but I'm going to test it out and see if I'm right.

EDIT 2: Ok, I think I found the issue. In the "ffxcustom.py", his Throw attack swap reads
Code: [Select]
["hercules","powernull","throw",""],
It should be
Code: [Select]
["hercules","powernull","throw","all"],
His Wrestling Throw is also missing its FX
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 03:29:59 AM by spydermann93 »

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2016, 03:25:04 AM »
Great Spyder! 

Yep, that's what it's supposed to do.

Thanks man!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2

Offline spydermann93

  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 3758
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2016, 03:51:13 AM »
Ok, so I've been running a few more tests with Hulk and I think I'm going to try tweaking how much StrAndResistThruPain gives.

The problem is that Hulk reaches a point where he can overpower foes too quickly, resulting in quick KOs or easy wins. What I'm going to try and look for is a formula that causes Hulk's strength to rise slower, but still reach the same heights. That way, when he's mad enough, he can still do tremendous damage, but there's a slower escalation to it. This will make battles with Hulk last longer while still keeping the "You won't like me when I'm angry" feel to him.

Offline BentonGrey

  • Titans
  • Hero Member
  • Posts: 14381
    • The Greylands
Re: Marvel Adventures Testing Thread
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2016, 03:57:05 AM »
Go for it Spyder.  It's a really delicate process, and I think you're better equipped to try tweaking it than I am.  Good luck man!

:EDIT: I feel like the Skrull troops might need their damage beefed up a bit.  Would y'all test them, both against heroes and the Kree, to see?
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 04:36:18 AM by BentonGrey »
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2