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Author Topic: Thor: Ragnarok  (Read 1220 times)

Offline Glitch Girl

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Thor: Ragnarok
« on: April 10, 2017, 02:08:46 PM »
Trailer dropped today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7MGUNV8MxU

It looks surprisingly fun.  Plus excellent choice in music.

Best bit starts at the 1:20 mark:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 02:11:15 PM by Glitch Girl »
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2017, 03:18:44 PM »
I'm entirely onboard.  They're making choices I wouldn't have made, but it certainly looks interesting and entertaining.
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Offline dudalb

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2017, 05:50:10 PM »
I was really curious to see what Cate Blanchett looked like as Hel. I was not disappointed.
I gotta love them using Led Zepplins "Immigrant Song" as the background music for the trailer.

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 08:46:57 PM »
Really?... reminds me of The Viking Kittens from Rathergood:  http://rathergood.com/2016/04/05/viking-kittens/  (blocked in some countries due to copyrights. I have an old versoin that plays on my Flash animation program).

Offline spydermann93

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 10:19:32 PM »
I LOVE IT!!!

CAN'T WAIT!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Offline Starman

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2017, 10:33:04 AM »
It just looks like "Guardians of the Galaxy".

I don't think Marvel have any idea how to "fix" Thor's films so they are trying to slot him into a formula that might yield some financial and fan success and chucking in Hulk (... and some of the wildly cool "Planet Hulk" comic) and a ton of overqualified actors for good measure.

Hopefully, director Taika David Waititi was allowed to inject some of his style into this film ... although Marvel has a poor track record in that regard.

I'm both a Thor fan and a film fan from way back and, yeah ... beyond the shallow, marketable aspects, this trailer leaves me cold.

Offline crimsonquill

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2017, 04:07:18 PM »
It just looks like "Guardians of the Galaxy".

I don't think Marvel have any idea how to "fix" Thor's films so they are trying to slot him into a formula that might yield some financial and fan success and chucking in Hulk (... and some of the wildly cool "Planet Hulk" comic) and a ton of overqualified actors for good measure.

I'm really thinking that Kevin Feige just decided that Hulk/Thor just fit better into an alien environment where they are not overpowered compared to everyone else. Really, Hulk and Thor would have ended Civil War in a 5 minute battle and Feige already knew that Guardians Of The Galaxy had that fun energy that none of the previous directors in their own respective films (Incredible Hulk and Thor 1 & 2) could get a handle on. On top of that Chris Hemsworth and Mark Ruffalo both have a natural sense of comedic timing which Taka loves using to his advantage. Marvel also removed the "these are for non-comic fans" leash that Phase One and Two had which now allows them to fully drop Ego The Living Planet, having a Planet Hulk Gladiator battle, Hela going full on Ragnarok on Asgard while destroying Thor's hammer, and even bringing in Thanos's Black Order before bringing everyone in the MCU together in a Battle Royale.

Everything in the MCU is a market machine but that's what Feige has done brilliantly.. bring that EPIC COMIC WORLD to the big screen even if it's not a direct adaptation of the comics themselves. Don't forget Stan Lee is a fantastic writer but he was THE COMIC MARKET MACHINE. He knew that bringing the over the top and having hundreds of heroes wedged into New York City would pay off huge even if it would eventually make an phone book size level of storylines and crossovers and a continuity that would need a masters degree to understand. It's just the hazard of bringing a huge world and adapting everything from one medium to another.

Oh, One more thing.. I love that "everyone"  is waving their arms about the super overcoloring and the wild set designs and making everything looks like something out of the '60s and '70s pop design. That it's all part of Marvel Studios and Feige embracing the designs of Jack "The King" Kirby and when DC's movieverse is all about the dark tones (NO, don't tell me Suicide Squad was supposed to be all colorful from the start. That's was their reaction to the style of Guardians Of The Galaxy because it just visually worked better then the style of Batman vs Superman) Marvel is just embracing that style in their "space and other realms" films to make it feel even more alien and surreal.
 
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« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 04:21:56 PM by crimsonquill »
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Offline SickAlice

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2017, 03:25:44 AM »
I try not to jump the gun but a few things already that are appealing to me:
- The cast seems to be having a lot of fun doing this one and that usually makes for a better final product as it is with any workplace or team en-devour.
- Worked in Gladiator Hulk in live action, I'll take however I can.
- It seems this movie won't be focusing on Jane's hipster friends nor naked father and what's more they don't seem to be in it at all. That was the big downside of the second film for me (the extended focus on them that is) so my hopes are up.
- I have a thing for Jeff Goldblum and can watch anything he's in just to see him in it.
- I also thing for Hela.
- Pretty much already has a lot of strong selling points for me already, may see it on the big screen though probably at the cheap seats later since there's other films eating up my bank account this year.

Offline kkhohoho

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2017, 05:24:51 AM »
- I have a thing for Jeff Goldblum and can watch anything he's in just to see him in it.

Well, uh, different strokes for, uh, different folks. I just, uh, c-c-can't really see the, uh, attraction in a guy, uh, who keeps on s-s-stuttering every, uh, f-f-five seconds or so. But maybe that's just me. ;)
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Offline SickAlice

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2017, 01:41:35 PM »
Stuttering is cute. Not an attraction though with him, just a fascination and appreciation for his style and method. I have a few actors and actresses like that, like John Malchovich for example. I see them as actors with great talent that either get the opportunity to show off otherwise at least make a fun appearance. Malchovich for me was due to Making Mister Right and Goldblum from first seeing his performance in The Fly, next in Earth Girls Are Easy.

Plus of course that glee in seeing the elements for the Infinity Gauntlet story being set. We have now the gems, the glove, Thanos, Nebula, Dr.Strange, The Collector, The Grandmaster and as of GOTG2
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
to name some of the essential playing pieces. I'm wondering if we will see Champion in Thor3? Cena? Who  is the Grandmaster competing against? Can't wait to find out. Going a little off track but trying to guess who is going to fill in for the missing characters. Going by the screen shots for Avengers Infinity War I'm think Star-Lord takes place as the messenger instead of the Silver Surfer and Loki takes Mephisto's place as the trickster (I mean naturally so).
« Last Edit: May 15, 2017, 02:36:10 PM by SickAlice »

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 08:34:31 PM »
Howdy guys.  Well...we saw Thor. On the plus side, I got to hang out with an awesome group of guys. So, there's that.  As for the film itself...

The movie is entertaining, occasionally quite funny, and visually spectacular.  Unfortunately, it's not really a Thor movie. It's a tremendous disappointment if you care about the character, his world, enjoyed the fantasy style of the previous films, or enjoy quality storytelling (note, that's an 'or',not an 'and').  If you're looking for a diverting way to pass a few hours, you could probably do worse, but this film is trying so desperately to be Guardians of the Galaxy 3 that it squanders a truly impressive amount of potential and some really fantastic characters for forced humor, mischaracterized protagonists, and a really cool looking but ultimately out of place setting.

Marvel has (in a much less egregious way), committed the same sin as DC.  They've seen an approach that worked with the wild success of the Guardians of the Galaxy and forced a completely different character into the same mold, creating a tone and feel for the movie that is completely off on almost every note.  This is the mistake that DC is scrambling to correct (much too late) with their bantery Justice League. It's almost inexplicable, because refusing to do exactly this has been a huge element of Marvel's success.

So, I find myself in a strange spot.  I've watched a film that was fairly well-made and quite entertaining, and yet I walked away disappointed and saddened.  Notably, I'm not the only one who felt this way, and I was the only big comic fan among our group, so clearly an investment in the characters isn't the only reason I had this reaction.  Your mileage may vary, but consider this a warning.  Caveat emptor.  I'd say you should save your money if you care about the characters, refuse to support a film that doesn't really do them justice.

More detailed thoughts:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was entertaining and colorful, but it was also tonally discordant and utterly wrong for the character and setting.  Thor as the jokey, comedy relief character is a massive mischaracterization.  Whether you liked the earlier films or not, and they certainly had their flaws, they at least treated the material with more respect and got what Thor was about, even if they didn't translate it terribly well at times.  This formula worked for Guardians of the Galaxy, but it was also done much better there, where they managed to balance humor and pathos, giving even their most absurd scenes a certain dramatic weight that was truly impressive, especially in the second film.  It could have worked here, but the effort stinks of desperation.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2017, 08:44:55 PM »
Well,its a fun movie,but sort of disposable.Like GotG2 it feels more like an episode then a movie.
Karl Urban seems kinda wasted.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 08:46:34 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2017, 09:16:39 PM »
Well,its a fun movie,but sort of disposable.Like GotG2 it feels more like an episode then a movie.
Karl Urban seems kinda wasted.

Massively, massively so.  He was perfectly cast.  But they squandered that like all of the rest of the potential the movie had.
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Offline Shogunn2517

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 11:52:18 PM »
Howdy guys.  Well...we saw Thor. On the plus side, I got to hang out with an awesome group of guys. So, there's that.  As for the film itself...

The movie is entertaining, occasionally quite funny, and visually spectacular.  Unfortunately, it's not really a Thor movie. It's a tremendous disappointment if you care about the character, his world, enjoyed the fantasy style of the previous films, or enjoy quality storytelling (note, that's an 'or',not an 'and').  If you're looking for a diverting way to pass a few hours, you could probably do worse, but this film is trying so desperately to be Guardians of the Galaxy 3 that it squanders a truly impressive amount of potential and some really fantastic characters for forced humor, mischaracterized protagonists, and a really cool looking but ultimately out of place setting.

Marvel has (in a much less egregious way), committed the same sin as DC.  They've seen an approach that worked with the wild success of the Guardians of the Galaxy and forced a completely different character into the same mold, creating a tone and feel for the movie that is completely off on almost every note.  This is the mistake that DC is scrambling to correct (much too late) with their bantery Justice League. It's almost inexplicable, because refusing to do exactly this has been a huge element of Marvel's success.

So, I find myself in a strange spot.  I've watched a film that was fairly well-made and quite entertaining, and yet I walked away disappointed and saddened.  Notably, I'm not the only one who felt this way, and I was the only big comic fan among our group, so clearly an investment in the characters isn't the only reason I had this reaction.  Your mileage may vary, but consider this a warning.  Caveat emptor.  I'd say you should save your money if you care about the characters, refuse to support a film that doesn't really do them justice.

More detailed thoughts:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

It was entertaining and colorful, but it was also tonally discordant and utterly wrong for the character and setting.  Thor as the jokey, comedy relief character is a massive mischaracterization.  Whether you liked the earlier films or not, and they certainly had their flaws, they at least treated the material with more respect and got what Thor was about, even if they didn't translate it terribly well at times.  This formula worked for Guardians of the Galaxy, but it was also done much better there, where they managed to balance humor and pathos, giving even their most absurd scenes a certain dramatic weight that was truly impressive, especially in the second film.  It could have worked here, but the effort stinks of desperation.

See, I figured as much.  I haven't watched it yet and this is pretty much why.  I mean, rightly or wrongly, from the previews I've seen, it seems they were intent on changing what the character is.  But what you're describing is that they're not just changing the character, but trying to change the tone of the franchise or at least fully depart from it.  Like saying "Let's make a Captain America movie, but let's take away his shield, give him a cape and superpowers and sidekick and make it buddy-cop rom-com."  I mean I guess it could be a good movie, but you just took the soul out of the character.

I could be wrong, but I think this has the opposite problem that Justice League has... where they stuck to the source material(sorta) and made a wack movie and here they didn't stick too closely to source material and just went to make a good movie. 

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2017, 02:27:55 AM »
Sort of, Shogunn, but what it has in common with the DC films is a blind adherence to whatever is popular without any consideration of whether or not that fits the material.  In other ways, yes, they are miles apart, because this movie is fun and well made, in its way.

Also, that's a funny and fitting analogy. 
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 02:39:35 AM by BentonGrey »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2017, 05:24:49 AM »
Its a bit weird in tone sometimes.Hela part takes itself seriously,but there is Thor and the planet of wiseguys.
You know how some movies have funny background characters who went on to be memetic?Ragnarok is trying to do that for everyone.
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2017, 06:03:59 PM »
"Planet of the wiseguys."  Ha, that's about right.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2017, 12:37:17 PM »
Oddly,this comes closer to the Defenders then The Defender.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #18 on: November 22, 2017, 05:02:56 AM »
I'm see this when it comes out as a digital rental, and probably enjoy it, but I've accepted this film as "If we make Thor more of a comedy, and play up the Sci-Fi elements, it's more likely to succeed".

I'm happy they seem to have scaled back Loki, since after Dark World it seems like he's the only Thor villain worth a damn in movie-land, but then again Karl Urban as Scourge, but I kinda suspected he was going to be underutilized.

But, and this probably says it all about me, I took one look at your post Benton, and I singled in on the part about the "rock guy".

I've actually been meaning to post about this for a few weeks. That character is Korg, from the Planet Hulk comics. He's been in the several of the cartoons and he's always the strong, gentle giant with the deep voice (Kevin Micheal Richardson voiced him in one of the cartoons). And in this movie, for some stupid reason, they've thrown all of that away and turned him into a complete joke comic relief character with a soft, cowardly sounding voice (sounding kinda like a Black comic relief character). No joke, when I heard his voice for the first time in a tv spot, I literally said out loud "Are you friggin' kidding me?"

So yeah, Benton, that whole thing you just said about them not actually adapting the source material? That's exactly how I feel, but specifically about Korg. Very disappointing.

Between that and Gladiator Hulk (which I do enjoy based on the trailers) it just makes me wish we got a whole movie to adapt the awesome that was Planet Hulk (well, we did, but it was animated).
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 12:40:13 AM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #19 on: November 22, 2017, 02:47:23 PM »
Fun fact: Korg is played by Taika Waititi.Which explains a lot.
Also,if you didnt like Loki before,you might want to avoid Ragnarok.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 04:19:02 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #20 on: November 22, 2017, 06:40:10 PM »
I thought I saw someplace that Korg was a Stone Man of Saturn...?

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #21 on: November 22, 2017, 11:03:10 PM »
That is correct. Korg and his species, the Stone Men of Saturn, aka the Kronan, first appeared in Journey into Mystery by Stan and Jack in the 60s, but he was brought back for Planet Hulk. So while he's known now for Planet Hulk and World War Hulk, he actually did appear in the Silver Age Marvel.

In fact, Thor fights a Kronan in an early scene of the previous movie, which is shown prominently in the trailers for that film ("You're big. I've fought bigger!")

Fun fact: Korg is played by Taika Waititi.Which explains a lot.
Also,if you didnt like Loki before,you might want to avoid Ragnarok.

Not terribly surprisingly, Hiddleston as the character is one of the big draws for people for these things, And Craig Kyle and Chris Yost were involved in the writing for both the 2nd and 3rd films and they have a tendency to lavish lots of attention on the villains (Iron Man: Armored Adventures was a good example of this, with the Mandarin's son). In any case, I did avoid it in theaters, and I'm sure I'll see it in a few months because the others in my viewing group will want to watch it and they all like Loki.
At least the other villains in this seem to be better than Malakith and Kurse, though that's really not saying much.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2018, 12:40:55 AM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2018, 06:58:43 AM »
I have now seen Thor Ragnarok. I largely echo Benton's entire post. It's both a great movie and a deeply flawed movie. Great as a comedy and colorful action movie, deeply flawed as a serious movie and adaptation. That's all I got to say about it for now but maybe I'll have more to add later.
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2018, 03:14:23 AM »
I agree for the most part, but honestly I'm more accepting of the more comedic tone for Thor because... it plays to the strengths of the principle actors. Hemsworth especially has gone out of his way to be in more comedic roles, and he's pretty good at it. So I don't think it's aping Guardians so much as it is taking greater advantage of Hemsworth's comedic talents, especially since the last Thor film was not very well received.

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2018, 09:10:55 AM »
Ok, sure, it's a comedy and it succeeds at being that....but on the other hand, the movie has significant stakes and losses without earning ANYTHING. It's wasteful, exploitative, cheap, and irresponsible, so in other words, it's a Kyle and Yost joint.

I'm tempted to say the tradeoff isn't worth it. I don't think I'd quite go there, though Benton seemed to feel that way, but in any case, I ask this: after Infinity War has come and gone, if you make another Thor movie, what would it even be about, other than maybe introducing Beta Ray Bill.

Plus, consider, in three movies, not counting Avengers 1 and 2, we've gotten a Warriors 3 that amounted to nothing, a Sif that amounted to nothing and completely disappeared between movies, Surtur is a glorified cameo, and Baldur and Amora the Enchantress are completely absent and unlikely to appear in future installments. Those aren't minor characters, I'd read enough Thor to know those are major parts of the mythos. But there isn't time to do anything with them because Muh Loki.
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2018, 07:59:12 PM »
I don't think that's permanent. They had it in the comics too remember, and then everyone got reborn into human bodies or whatever. If anything, I'm more concerned about the changes made to Hela... I don't mind it in this film, but it seems to more obviously harm the mythos overall then yet another titular Ragnarok.

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2018, 05:25:12 AM »
I thought I saw someplace that Korg was a Stone Man of Saturn...?

There was a gray Stone Man of Saturn (they're orange in the comics) in The Dark World.

Korg looks sort of like he could possibly be a race related to the Stone Men, but his design is too different for him to actually be one. Though some accounts say that the Stone Man that Thor defeated in TDW is supposed to be Korg.

My only gripe with the movie is that the Thor-Hulk arena fight felt too rushed. Didn't mind it being a comedy, but Thor does come off a bit too goofy in the film.

Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #27 on: April 02, 2018, 09:57:55 PM »
I absolutely think it is a net loss.  Some changes to a mythos might be necessary to adapt a comic to film (hey look they're aliens, not actual gods!), and some can be made for the same of telling a good story.  Others just display a contempt for the source material, the themes of the originals, and basically everything that defines that particular mythos.  Such is Thor III, which squandered every moment of genuine drama and impact it had.  As someone said about this film, you can only sneer at your own premise so often before no-one will take it seriously, and that will rob it of all its power.  It's a crying shame and an absolute crime against the character that they took such wonderful, epic material and traded it all in for cheap laughs and mediocre thrills.

While they may be playing to Hemsworth's strengths, the tone and style of the movie ABSOLUTELY aped Guardians.  From the retro-futuristic visuals to the ratcheting up the absurdity in supposedly serious moments, it was basically Guardians III: This Time Thor Tries to be Funny
« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 10:04:05 PM by BentonGrey »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2018, 04:24:44 AM »
In general,the problem is a very Snyder-ian approach to structuring the movie,where it just takes a bunch of kewl moments from the comics and strings them together without any care for the context.

Surtr as James Bond opening is a real waste btw.Not to mention destruction of Asgard is treated with a Simpsons joke from Korg.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 04:26:32 AM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline BentonGrey

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Re: Thor: Ragnarok
« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2018, 06:00:36 AM »
Yep, the Executioner's heroic sacrifice, a wonderful, poignant moment from the comics, has basically no weight because he's a joke character who never earns anything like it.  They undercut literally every significant moment in their film.  Guardians uses a similar type of humor, and yet it manages to balance its dramatic core much more successfully.
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