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Author Topic: Sonic Archie Series  (Read 240 times)

Offline Tomato

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Sonic Archie Series
« on: April 18, 2017, 06:06:20 AM »
Moving this over to a new thread because the discussion isn't at all DC related.

For my money, I'd say new continuity 100%. Sure, you probably should go back and read the stuff before (if only to see the annoying french snooty character from the cartoon transform into the BEST CHARACTER IN THE SERIES), but you also don't have to slog through the nonsensical Ken Penders garbage like Rob O' the Hedge or pretty much all of the Knuckles series because holy HFIL that comic is garbage.

I wouldn't say he's the absolute best character in the series, (that's Bunnie for my money, oh looky I made a funny,) but he still ends up pretty darn awesome, and it is amazing seeing him go from the worst character in the series to one of the best.

Also, I'll admit that I haven't actually read the reboot stuff yet, which I still need to work on. If you say it doesn't rely so much on the games, then who am I judge? But if that's the case, then yeah, definitely start with the reboot, if only so you don't have to put up with all of that Penders baggage. Once you're done with that, then you can go back and read the old continuity to your heart's content, or at least the stuff that Flynn had a hand in.

But I also wouldn't say you're expected to really know who these characters are, at least when it comes to the SatAM crew. It's not as if the comic's saying 'Hey, we would have introduced these characters properly, but you'll just have to watch SatAM to know just who these guys are, sorry about that.' It does treat them as though they're being introduced for the very first time, and you don't feel as if you have to watch the show before reading the comic. Hell, I didn't watch the show until after I read all of the old comic continuity, and I never felt as if I actually needed to watch it to understand who these people were. So that's not really an issue in my book. That said, you should watch it if you can, because it's awesome in its' own right. It was an early 90's animated show and more or less belonged in the animation renaissance going on at the time, so it's definitely worth checking out.

I mostly agree about Antoine, but I love him mostly because of how far he came as a character. He went from being a self-serving, self-righteous coward who existed only to flirt with Sally (who clearly didn't like him) to being a hero who would gladly give his life to save his friends and comrades in arms. He also wields a Sword into combat, because to heck with having superpowers like most of the cast. By contrast, Bunny started out as awesome and just became slightly more awesome.

As for the introductions... ehhhh. See, I would counter that you really DON'T get an introduction to any of the SatAM crew in the original comic... they are there from issue 1, and you're just sort of expected to accept them as existing just like Sonic and Eggman, despite not existing outside the SatAM cartoon. Contrast that with Amy and Knuckles, who DID get full introductions as they showed up in the games. Yes, they also DO get origins and backstories and fleshing out throughout the story, but that's not quite the same. It's not BAD by any means, you just have to roll with the punches and accept that you're coming into the story in sort of the middle, as with most comics, and just wait for the origin issues to come later on.

Going back to the reboot... because of the nature of it, it's a very weird entity. On the one hand, you basically wiped out huge sections of the book, like pretty much ALL of Knuckle's extended cast and backstory (GOOD. RIDDANCE. Aside from occasionally Julie Su, I hated all of it.) and condensed other characters into existing ones. But they actually did keep a lot of what they could the same, with most of the Flynn subplots intact-ish before and after.

I WILL add though, for anyone looking to get into the series, that if you're worried about the games, DON'T. Archie has always just adapted the story of the games into the main books, at least for the most part. I think we got like one instance where they were promoting a game in the books as a side story and it suddenly ended with "see the rest of the story in..." but that's probably because the game was Sonic Chronicles and it's in that realm most people wanna forget anyway (I like it personally, but it's very problematic), SO.

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2017, 02:57:47 PM »
@Introductions: ...Ah, okay, I think I get you now. Yeah, in that sense, everyone but Bunnie was just sort of there and you weren't really 'introduced' to them persay, but I'd argue it was more or less the same in SatAM. All of the Freedom Fighters (even Bunnie,) were already together and kicking arse right at the start, rather than starting at the beginning of their stories. But to be honest, I still didn't have a problem with that. I still felt like I knew who these characters were as people and why they were together, and I wasn't thinking that I was just supposed to accept that they existed, in both the show and the comic. I felt that I already knew all I needed to know, and everything that came later was just window dressing.

@Promoting the games as side stories: To be fair, most of these weren't actually canon to the comic, but there were a couple that were, namely SA2 and Rush Adventure. The comic basically just gave us the start of each game without bothering to do a proper adaptation of each, and everyone from said adaptations came back later,  while we were just supposed to assume that those games more or less took place in the comic proper. Which, considering just how different the old continuity was from the games, didn't make a lot of sense, especially where SA2 was concerned. That one's probably the biggest offender, because if you haven't played the game, then a big chunk of Shadow's character development and backstory may be lost on you until the kinda-sorta Not!adaptation of Shadow the Hedgehog comes along, and you still might feel like you're missing something.

Anyhoo, as long as we've got a whole thread about Archie Sonic, I figure I might as well post this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMvojOCypvE

That is an upcoming mod pack for Sonic World, a 3D Sonic fangame that's based off the Adventure games but with stomping and drifting from the boost games, and it's some good stuff. The best thing about it though (aside from having 35 different characters in the base game, all with different abilities,) is the sheer amount of mod content for it, ranging anywhere from characters to levels, but this one's set to take the cake. It's going to have a whole bunch of characters from both the pre-reboot and post-reboot continuities, and most of the ones we've seen so far are pretty well done. Only problem is, it's only coming out when the next edition of Sonic World comes out, (R8,) so it's still a ways away. Here's a list of planned characters if you're interested:

*Sally
*Antione
*Bunnie
*Rotor
*Nicole
*Mina Mongoose
*Scourge
*Julie-Su
*Dr.Finetivus
*Fiona Fox
*Locke
*Shard
*Geoffrey St.John
*Lupe the Wolf
*Eclipse
*Breezy
*Gold

I'd kill to have most of these guys in an actual Sonic game, (except Locke because frick him,) but for better or worse, this is as close as we're gonna get.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2017, 09:50:50 PM by kkhohoho »
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2017, 03:19:57 AM »
Oh, I'm familiar with the project. It's fun to play with, but I've honestly done more with the renders made by a modeller for the game than playing the game itself: I made a whole slew of windows icons for different sonic characters ages ago, and one of the people working on the game posted high res renders of their models to help promote it.

Back on track though, one thing I have liked post-reboot is that they're taking their time and incorporating the games in the books in a more natural way. For example, when I was reading last (which is a year or so ago now) they were beginning to adapt Sonic Unleashed, which came out 2008. However, since they weren't rushing to ZOMG PROMOTE THE GAME NAOWZ they were able to slowly trickle in choice elements that fit within the narrative they were telling.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 03:24:52 AM by Tomato »

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2017, 03:58:30 AM »
Oh, I'm familiar with the project. It's fun to play with, but I've honestly done more with the renders made by a modeller for the game than playing the game itself: I made a whole slew of windows icons for different sonic characters ages ago, and one of the people working on the game posted high res renders of their models to help promote it.

Back on track though, one thing I have liked post-reboot is that they're taking their time and incorporating the games in the books in a more natural way. For example, when I was reading last (which is a year or so ago now) they were beginning to adapt Sonic Unleashed, which came out 2008. However, since they weren't rushing to ZOMG PROMOTE THE GAME NAOWZ they were able to slowly trickle in choice elements that fit within the narrative they were telling.

Ah, OK. Yeah, I like the game too, especially the latest release, but I'm really looking forward to R8 and the Archie Pack. Playing as Bunnie in a 3D Sonic game is going to be a dream come true.

Anyhoo, I still haven't actually played Sonic Unleashed. Part of it is because I'm a bit wary of 3D boosting gameplay. I liked it well enough in Generations, but some Sonic games that are all about 'gotta go fast' forget that there's also gotta be some platforming. Sonic Advance 2 probably started this, but Secret Rings does the same sort of thing. Rush alleviates this somewhat with Boost being more of a nice perk rather than something that, a few choice segments aside, is actually a necessary bedrock of the gameplay, but I'm not so sure that's the case in Unleashed. And then there's the freaking Werehog. I actually just started reading the reboot today, so I'm hoping I don't need to play the game to understand what's going on in the comic, because I honestly don't really want to play it.
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2017, 05:03:24 AM »
Sonic Unleashed the game is a mixed bag, especially given that there are two versions of the game for consoles (one for Wii/PS2, one for 360/PS3) that are very different and have their own strengths and weaknesses. I will say though, the PS2 version of Unleashed, for all its other problems, is the most intuitive and responsive Sonic game I have ever played when it comes to speed levels, even compared to Generations. That said, the comic (at least where I was) was only using the Werehog form as part of the storyline, though there were hints that there was more to it. Again, it's been awhile for me.

Speaking of Sonic comics though, one of the current artists for the books, Evan Stanley, got her start doing a webcomic called Ghosts of the Future. It's actually a bizarrely good read, taking some of the worst elements of the Sonic series, and making them amazing (Ex. the series stars Silver, and covers the Arabian Nights universe in the first major arc. And I'm still recommending it.)

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2017, 05:51:36 AM »
Sonic Unleashed the game is a mixed bag, especially given that there are two versions of the game for consoles (one for Wii/PS2, one for 360/PS3) that are very different and have their own strengths and weaknesses. I will say though, the PS2 version of Unleashed, for all its other problems, is the most intuitive and responsive Sonic game I have ever played when it comes to speed levels, even compared to Generations. That said, the comic (at least where I was) was only using the Werehog form as part of the storyline, though there were hints that there was more to it. Again, it's been awhile for me.

Speaking of Sonic comics though, one of the current artists for the books, Evan Stanley, got her start doing a webcomic called Ghosts of the Future. It's actually a bizarrely good read, taking some of the worst elements of the Sonic series, and making them amazing (Ex. the series stars Silver, and covers the Arabian Nights universe in the first major arc. And I'm still recommending it.)

Eh, I think Flynn already made Silver pretty neat by the end of the original continuity,  and I never really minded the Arabian Nights universe. Hell, I actually think Secret Rings has one of the most well told stories of all the games. It's still not Shakespeare, but at least it feels like a decent story I could see in other Sonic mediums instead of an underdeveloped, convoluted, contrived piece of schlock like nearly every story in a Sonic game is, and that's when they even bother to actually have one.

That's one of the most baffling things about the whole Sonic franchise to me. If you look at at the various Sonic series in other mediums -- Sat AM, the Archie Comics, the UK's Fleetway Comics (which are amazing by the way; easily on par with Flynn's stuff once it gets going,) -- it's clear that Sonic is capable of being a breeding ground for good or even great stories. And yet whenever the games try to do the same, they almost always fall flat on their collective faces. Is it simply a case of Sat AM and the two comic branches having different (and better,) writers? Do the writers for the games just not really give that much of a crap in spite of so much effort put into some of them compared to the earlier games? Or is it just plain incompetence? You'd think this is something SEGA would have noticed and try to remedy, and yet we still get things like Sonic Lost World. It might be best just to hire Flynn for a game and be done with it, because at least Flynn can actually write.
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Offline Tomato

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2017, 03:49:37 AM »
I also like Flynn's take on Silver, but I will say, I was more inclined to like it because of GotF, which predated his introduction to the Archie series iirc. Really, I think what I like most about it is that it's managed to take all these concepts that were just floating around, abandoned by SEGA, and made something cohesive. The series covers everything from Arabian Nights, to Choco from Sonic Unleashed, to Nicole from Archie. The setting (the story takes place years after a climactic battle with Eggman where most of the main cast was killed in a final battle with Eggman and Sonic sacrificed himself to become the new Tikal) allows for some pretty powerful moments.

And I'm sorry if I seem dismissive of Arabian Nights, but it's less about the story for the game, and more dismissive of it as a game, and as an addition to the actual series as a whole. It's harmless on it's own, but in a franchise where continuity is already pretty fluid, Arabian Nights is such filler that it doesn't even have an impact on its own sequel. The version of it seen in GotF actually has an impact on the ongoing narrative, and the things that happen in that world matter to the main characters.

As for the games... I mean, to be fair, I don't expect epic writing from Mario games either. The problem is that unlike Mario, Sonic has had the potential for really great stories. Even 06, awful as it was, had the potential to be a good story. Heck, I'd argue the stuff with Shadow (which is handled clumsily, but it's 06) is a natural continuation of the arc he'd had over the course of the series. Sega is so quick to rebrand and abandon old ideas because the fans don't like them, that they really don't take advantage of the toys they have in the toybox.

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2017, 04:12:22 AM »
As for the games... I mean, to be fair, I don't expect epic writing from Mario games either. The problem is that unlike Mario, Sonic has had the potential for really great stories. Even 06, awful as it was, had the potential to be a good story. Heck, I'd argue the stuff with Shadow (which is handled clumsily, but it's 06) is a natural continuation of the arc he'd had over the course of the series. Sega is so quick to rebrand and abandon old ideas because the fans don't like them, that they really don't take advantage of the toys they have in the toybox.

Except even Mario's had decent stories. Just look at the RPG's. (And there are a LOT of them.) So you'd think that SEGA could be bothered to put in the same sort of effort that Nintendo actually does every now and then.

Anyhoo... this is ominous: http://www.tssznews.com/2017/04/19/sonic-291-listed-as-cancelled-email-going-to-subscribers-about-sonic-comics-later-in-april/

On the one hand, this could all be one big misunderstanding, and it wouldn't be the first time it happened. On the other hand, this also wouldn't be the first time Archie cancelled a comic without telling anyone about it, seeing as they did the same thing to Megaman back in 2015. So it's really up in the air at this point.

I will say that if the worst comes to worst, that doesn't mean it's the end. The Fleetway comic survived with a creator-endorsed online continuation for over a decade after it's cancellation, and there's already a group of people prepping to do the same for the original Archie continuity, so if it's really cancelled, then that doesn't mean it's over.

But it'd still freaking suck.
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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 02:53:41 AM »
IT'S ALIVE!

Anyhoo, most people reading this thread are probably aware of this, but a while back, the Archie!Sonic universe ended up splintering into two thanks to one Ken Penders. Penders was the main writer responsible for a lot of the comic's early stories back in the day, and while he certainly helped define the comic, he was never really all that good. He ended up leaving the comic after 13 years of writing it on and off, but by 2013, he got the idea that he was some sort of auteur and filed a lawsuit for the rights of the MANY characters he created for the comic which under ordinary circumstances he wouldn't have been able to win. However, SEGA and Archie never thought he could win and so went into it completely unprepared, resulting in Penders coming out the victor. In the end, he gained the rights to all of his characters resulting in Archie having to pull a soft reboot to excise all of the Penders characters and elements, with SEGA unleashing a slew of mandates and demanding that ALL characters not created by Sega or coming from one of the TV shows were to be done away with. But the story doesn't end there.

With Penders in possession of all of his characters and with SEGA have put aside the Preboot continuity, Penders decided to create his own series of graphic novels using said characters, as well as some of that continuity from the comics. Said continuity's been modified somewhat for obvious reasons, but it's there. The real kicker though is that he's so confident in his product that he's made, of all things, an official T-shirt, which is quite possibly the worst T-shirt I've ever seen. I am not joking here. This t-shirt was so bad, it actually made me want to vomit. Check it out for yourself, but remember; you've been warned: https://twitter.com/KenPenders?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Also, just for an extra bit of hypocrisy, part of the reason Penders filed the lawsuit in the first place was also because SEGA put out a game with a number of characters that were pretty darn similar to Penders' characters without actually being his characters.  Cue Penders using an official pic of Knuckles from an actual issue of the Archie comics in his freaking graphic novels. Complete with cowboy hat: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9odTLQCUAA0G_r.jpg

The whole thing is freaking ludicrous. The man is a freaking hack with little to no talent whatsoever, and yet he somehow managed to split apart an entire universe of characters which by all accounts shouldn't have happened, and is even doing one worse than the company he said was plagiarizing him. They may have just used characters similar to Penders, but Pender is using an actual SEGA character. And that t-shirt is just freaking horrendous. <_<

Anyhoo, this isn't quite related to the comics, but if a fancomic can be brought up here, then so can a fanfic. Which I'm actually writing. It's called Sonic and the Freedom Fighters: Blue Horizon, and it's for all intents and purposes a composite fanfic bringing together elements from nearly every incarnation of Sonic into a cohesive whole. It's mainly based off of the games and both Archie continuties, but it's got something from everything, namely when it comes to the characters. The biggest thing I'm doing is taking all of the main characters and some of the supporting ones from the various continuities and making a megateam. When all's said and done, there's going to be around 26 Freedom Fighters or so, though not everyone's going to get focused on at once. Think Legion of Superheroes or Justice League Unlimited. One story may have a team of Sonic, Tails, Rotor, Johnny (Fleetway Comics,) and Manic, (Sonic Underground,) while another might have Sonic, Antione, Big, Porker Lewis, (Fleetway again,) and Sticks. (Sonic Boom.) And Sonic might not even be in every story arc, simply because there'll be so many different characters to choose from. The only major characters not in the Freedom Fighters are characters who already have their own teams or shticks. Both the Chaotix (the usual three along with Mighty and Ray,) and Team Dark already have their own groups, and Knuckles is gonna be busy protecting the Master Emerald with Julie Su. (Who also goes by Shade.) I'm still writing the first chapter, but it's gonna be a big one, and if anyone's interested, I'd be more than happy to share a link once it's finished. :)
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

Online kkhohoho

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Re: Sonic Archie Series
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2017, 12:09:25 AM »
So a LOT has happened to the comic in just the last week or so. To make a long story short, Archie finally ended the waiting ame and officially canceled the thing, but IDW announced just 2 days later that's it picked up the license and will start publishing their own Sonic comics in 2018. Just what this means for the comics themselves is uncertain, as in whether or not they've be continuing on from the Post continuity, starting things fresh, or doing both as IDW is sometimes known to do, but they have said they are getting multiple creative teams which suggests more than one book, (which is what Archie was doing after a while,) and that they're also listening to the fans and hiring creators new and old. Which probably includes Ian Flynn after they said he was on their rader. As long as they've still got Flynn, I'll be a happy man, no matter what they do. (Though I would like them to keep the Freedom Fighters personally.)

Anyhoo, the first chapter of that fanfic I've been working on is finally out, and anyone who wants to read it can just click on this here link: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12583620/1/Sonic-and-the-Freedom-Fighters-Blue-Horizon

Like I said, it's got a megateam of just about everyone under the sun minus guys like Knuckles, the Chaotix, and Team Dark, who already have their own things going on, and there will be some stories that focus on them from time to time. I actually wanted to make this a community project and have multiple series going for all three of them plus a crapton of stories for the multitude of Freedom Fighters, but no-one wanted in, so I was stuck doing it on my own. It's a shame, but you do what you gotta do.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203