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Batman VS Nightwing

Started by Tomato, May 27, 2017, 02:05:41 PM

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Tomato

So I was re-watching Linkara's review of The Technis Imperative the other day, and one of the points raised was the fact that Batman and Nightwing have never really had an all out fight in the comics... they've had heated debates, and one might have hit the other in a moment of passion, but outside of nonsense like mind control I can't think of any physical confrontations between the two. I debated making this a poll, but, well, there's an obvious knee-jerk reaction here and I actually want to foster some discussion on this one, especially since I'm putting in some stipulations to make things a bit more even.

1. In this scenario, both Bruce and Dick are 20 years old. You can justify it as time travel, alternate realities, whatever. The point is, they'd both be at at similar points in their careers, and age isn't a factor.
2. No wonderful toys, just fisticuffs.
3. This isn't Death Battle. You can headcannon the reason why they're fighting, but this is still Bruce and Dick. Their personalities are still the same as in the comics, so Bruce isn't going to suddenly pull out killing blows. Furthermore, any hesitancy one might have fighting the other is a factor.


spydermann93

I'd probably say Dick on this one. He's been fighting crime alongside Batman since he was basically a kid, having to learn and adapt on the fly against mobsters, monsters, and gangsters. He definitely went through hell as a kid, and as a teen, he was off adventuring with the Teen Titans. By the time he was 20, he probably had significantly more combat experience than Bruce did when Bruce was his age. Didn't Bruce only begin learning martial arts in his late teens and early 20's? And aside from all that, he's trained with Bats on the regular, so Dick has definitely picked up moves learned by a more experienced and hardened Batman than the one portrayed here. The lack of gadgets seals the deal, really (not that it would've changed the outcome significantly).

If this were modern-day, standard age Bruce, I would give it to him, but based on how many more combat and life-or-death situations Dick has gone through by this point of his life, I'm giving it to Nightwing here.

Podmark

Would Bruce even be Batman at 20? The age stipulation really leans towards Dick, I think.
At their peaks I'd assume Bruce would win. The character is built around being the best, and while Dick would give a solid challenge, Bruce trains himself at taking down his allies. Unless...with personalities playing a part there's a very good chance Bruce would hold back, but Dick might too. Bottom line at their peaks my vote would go to Bruce.

At 20 I think I'm with Sypdermann93. Dick would have superior experience. The x-factor for me is what level of training Bruce actually has at 20, not really clear on that.
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Deaths Jester

I go with Grayson winning and not due to his training or such. It's because Grayson knows exactly what buttons to push to get Bruce angry and undisciplined making him sloppy. Bruce has always relied on not giving into emotion during fights and the few battles he got emotional in, he faired poorly.
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Ouflah

#4
I'm with Spydermann93 also. If they're both at age 20, Grayson is should have a serious edge, both in training and experience.

EDIT: Hey, wasn't Dick Grayson still Robin (and leading the New Teen Titans) when he was 20?

EDIT 2: Nevermind, looked it up and apparently he was 19 when he became Nightwing.
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Kenn

He was 19 when the first Titans broke-up.   He was 19 when the restarted Titans set up in the Titan's Lair under the Gabriel's Horn disco in Farmingdale, Long Island.  He was 19 when that iteration of the Titans ended.  He was 19 when they rescued Koriand'r and the New Teen Titans began.  He was 19 when they first met Terra.  He was 19 when he became Nightwing.

He was 19 for a very long time.
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Also what Lightning Man and Kenn-X have been doing lately.

Tomato

To be fair, I went with 20 because of DC's ridiculous sliding time scale for the character. What I intended (and I guess it would technically be like 25 or so?) was a Batman who is about 2-3 years into his craft... enough to have gained some experience as Batman, maybe taken on Dick Grayson as Robin in his timeline/reality, but was still not "I can do everything because I'm Batman" level yet.

That being said, a few things I wanted to bring up:

-Dick may have been trained since about 12, but Bruce was training since he was 6 years old. I would argue Bruce was far more specialized in hand to hand combat than Dick would have been. Dick spent much of his time fighting demons, mad car racers, and evil cults... Bruce, meanwhile, was training to fight other human beings by some of the best martial arts masters in the world. In a purely fisticufs confrontation, I would think Bruce might still have the edge, even if he is pre-Batman as I unintentionally stipulated.

-Regardless if this is a Bruce who has recently taken on Dick Grayson or not, I highly doubt he's going to have the same paternal instincts that an older Bruce might have. Yes, that means Dick has a better handle on how to get under his skin (especially with this more raw and untested Batman) but Dick is also far more likely to hesitate than Bruce might be.

That being said, I'm still not taking sides here. I just find the whole thing interesting.

spydermann93

Quote from: Tomato on May 29, 2017, 03:38:55 PMDick may have been trained since about 12, but Bruce was training since he was 6 years old. I would argue Bruce was far more specialized in hand to hand combat than Dick would have been. Dick spent much of his time fighting demons, mad car racers, and evil cults... Bruce, meanwhile, was training to fight other human beings by some of the best martial arts masters in the world. In a purely fisticufs confrontation, I would think Bruce might still have the edge, even if he is pre-Batman as I unintentionally stipulated.

Ah, ok. I thought that he went off to learn martial arts after he was partially done with schooling (getting his 9 PhD's, lol) and went to crime fighting when he came back. I didn't realize he was so young when he started physical training. At the latest, I would've figured mid-late teens (15-18). Anyways, if that's true, then, I would probably still give the edge to Dick Grayson, but in a much closer fight than before. Like, 51/49, Nightwing's favor. I'm not trying to downplay Bruce here, but Dick Grayson has some serious chops under his belt while this Bruce is still "new" to the scene. Experience goes a looooong way in comic-book land and I do believe Grayson has that advantage.