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Author Topic: Old Skool Marvel  (Read 1066 times)

Offline HarryTrotter

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Old Skool Marvel
« on: September 10, 2017, 02:45:11 PM »
So lately I was (re)reading/catching up on some thing,mostly from the time of Wayne's World and Mortal Kombat.  :)

The Gargoyle I guess the central theme is Christianity vs Paganism.Its weird.Its DeMatteis.

Hellstorm: Prince of Lies and Druid Its early Warren Ellis,so it feels a lot like a pilot episode for his later works.Even some names got reused later on.Jakita Wagner,anyone?Not terrible,but lets face it,Ellis isn't all that diverse in his works.If you read even one,you saw a lot of things here handled better.

I returned to finish She-Hulk,and honestly,it suffers after Slott leaves.David isn't bad,but abandoning the setting and the characters of the past 30 or so issues kinda hurts the series.At least the whole thing with doppelgangers from Earth Alpha explains a lot about the Marvel universe.

Peter Davids Hulk Halfway thru,and I cant help but notice- Punisher really was everywhere in those days.  :rolleyes:
Its good so far,what can I say?

Ghost Rider/Punisher/Wolverine Its Marvels three most profitable heroes (at the time),together at last.But it actually holds up better then you would expect,and it has JR JR on the art.Thou I cant guess why Mephisto looks like Malebolgia from Spawn here.Okay,I can,but its unnecessary.

Wolverine v2 Apparently,Marvel universe had a real problem with cybernetic villains at the time.
Its gets a bit weaker after Claremont leaves,but it evens out once Hamma took over.And I like Silvestri's art,as always.

Cable Classics So yeah,Cable is Terminator.With Cannonball being John Connor.IIRC,that plot never really went anywhere.Then again,Im not even sure if I read Cables solo series before.I think I did,but I wouldn't bet on it...
Series has a weird tendency to jump all over the place,so its a bit hard to follow.Even for somebody who read X-Force of the time.It gets better in the second volume.And really,what is up with cyborg villains all over the place? :blink:
 
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 07:29:54 PM »
Moving on with Hulk,Death shows up on Ricks wedding.As in Death from Sandman.We never see her face,but its death as a goth girl with an ankh pendant(that has to bail before Thanos shows up).You can guess who it is.
That messes up several universes,doesnt it? ;)
There is also a running gag with some Japanese tourists,but I was too lazy to look for a translation.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2018, 07:07:21 PM »
Stating the obvios,but Byrnes Fantastic Four is great.His Doom is the only Doom.
Also,Last Galactus Story is one of the greatest Marvel stories ever.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline daglob

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2018, 09:13:24 PM »
"Old Scool Marvel" still makes me laugh.

Byrne's FF was FUN. Even though I didn't agree with his take on Aunt Petunia, I enjoyed the run.

Offline GhostMachine

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2018, 11:58:57 PM »
I believe even Byrne himself somewhat agrees he handled Aunt Petunia wrong.

Stating the obvios,but Byrnes Fantastic Four is great.His Doom is the only Doom.
Also,Last Galactus Story is one of the greatest Marvel stories ever.

I'm a regular over at Byrne Robotics under my real name, and a lot of people (me included) agree with you on both points. I honestly think Byrne is the only writer since Stan Lee who `gets' Doom. Those who have followed him certainly don't.

Offline daglob

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2018, 02:13:02 AM »
I believe even Byrne himself somewhat agrees he handled Aunt Petunia wrong.

Stating the obvios,but Byrnes Fantastic Four is great.His Doom is the only Doom.
Also,Last Galactus Story is one of the greatest Marvel stories ever.

I'm a regular over at Byrne Robotics under my real name, and a lot of people (me included) agree with you on both points. I honestly think Byrne is the only writer since Stan Lee who `gets' Doom. Those who have followed him certainly don't.

Agreed.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2018, 11:17:39 AM »
I did like Waids Doom,on a similar note.
Punisher : Capital Punishment,which really should have been called Punisher: Eurotour.Great art,story is what you would expect.Die Hard in a supermarket issue is a personal favorite.
Incredible Hulk: Pardoned .You could make a drinking game out of Hulk becoming inteligent.Once per writer?High point is Avengers teaming up with Hulk to fight the Leader.Today that would be a whole event with dozens of tie ins.
Also,Marvel,start numbering your bloody collections! For example,if we can have Venom v1,we can have Thunderbolts by Jeff Parker v1.Whats so difficult there?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2018, 12:06:46 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline daglob

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2018, 02:58:59 PM »
Ace Books was infamous for re-issuing a book with a new cover, possibly new name, and new indicia. If you look around hard enough, you could usually find the original copyright date, but not just on a casual examination.

Why did they do it? Well. I can't say for sure (yes I can), but maybe they hoped that you would get confused and buy a second copy.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2018, 04:32:02 PM »
I kinda doubt thats the case,but its still a odd approach.To continue on the Thunderbolts example- You have Thunderbolts Classics V1-V3,then it switches to Hawkeye and Thunderbolts v1-v2 and we skip ahead and we have Thunderbolts: Cage,Violent Rejections,The Great Escape etc.
Seriously,what the hell?Were they under impression that nobody would buy something labeled as "volume 2"?That's also unlikely,since their tps of ongoing series are numbered.Ie Venom v1-v3.
Yeah,I know its not exactly the end of the world,but it grinds my gears.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2018, 05:38:33 PM »
Union Jack: London Falling. R.A.I.D is planing a huge terrorist attack,so Union Jack and a team of multinational heroes have to stop them and defeat a bunch of D-list supervillains.Short and sweet,functions as a cool action movie.
Arabian Knight looks like Naveen Andrews,funny story.And while not the worst offender,the comic has a lot of limeyisms.Look,Gage,nobody actually talks like that.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2018, 08:49:52 AM »
Sub-Mariner Rebolution. This sets up a lot of stuff for modern Namor.Im not sure if this ending for Atlantis lasted long.Also,Doctor Doom bromance.
Doctor Strange The Oath.Vaughan has been mostly a miss guy for me,but this is a hit.This is how you introduce a character.This should have been a movie.Its sufficent to say this is the second version of Doctor Strange that I liked.Yes,only two.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2018, 08:53:40 AM »
So I did finish Exiles recently. Boy oh boy was Claremont's run a slog and a mess, a learning in course in seeing just exactly how and why Claremont went from all of the all time greatest, most influential writers of superhero soap opera to a punchline, a cautionary tale and a surefire sign to save your money. Undercooked characters, hanging plots that either go nowhere, take way too long to be resolved, and/or get a rushed conclusion.  Morph seems to be his comedic, Plastic-Man-esque self only occasionally and only by obligation, the big Proteus plotline does get a sorta resolution, which is nice, and is probably part of the run, but still feels like an obligation that needed to happen and not what should have actually happened. Exiles was one of the all-time great books with an all time great premise, and this series didn't feel much like the same book at all. The art also wasn't great, though for my money it was rarely if ever bad to the point of being irksome, which is more than I can say about some modern Marvel books. Also, Kitty Pryde as Tigra is pretty cute and amusing.

Parker's run of Exiles, on the other hand, I quite enjoyed and it was an admirable return to form. It's fun and quirky, the characters are all unique and distinct and fun and interesting (where else can you find a version of Black Panther who's the comic relief on the team?), Morph actually felt like Morph, and the book actually felt like Exiles. The art was fun and expressive and cartoony. It only lasted 6 issues (with the last being extra long and composed of Parker saying screw it and trying to pack EVERY LAST THING into the book) but it does make me wish it lasted at least as long as Claremont's. That the current run has more issues than this makes me raise an eyebrow Mr. Spock style, because while I haven't read it yet (I'm sure I will at some point) I'm not sure it will be as good.

Since then I've been reading the original Secret Wars on and off. It's dated in that way that just about every comic from before 1996 or so is going to be, but it's very enjoyable, a classic that lives up to its status. And the Hulk holding up a mountain that was going to crush the heroes while they figure a way out was in fact as awesome as I'd heard it was. Also the book does an admirable job of reminding me why people ever liked or cared about Doctor Doom. Or Reed Richards for that matter. There's also about a quarter of a decent X-Men mini in here. More or less everyone gets to shine. It feels like an Event Comic done right.

I also read the first issue of the original Lobdell/Bachalo Generation X. I quite liked it, it actually does make me want to read more. I might have to get to that at some point.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 12:11:04 PM by Silver Shocker »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2018, 09:47:10 PM »
Well,thats still far from worst of late Claremont era.But really,everything looks good when compared to JLA Tenth Circle.
I mentioned it before,but I liked Generation X.I really did.
I always tended to gravitate more towards X-men spinoffs.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2018, 09:46:07 AM »
Well,thats still far from worst of late Claremont era.But really,everything looks good when compared to JLA Tenth Circle.
I mentioned it before,but I liked Generation X.I really did.
I always tended to gravitate more towards X-men spinoffs.

While it might just be you and I have differing opinions, I shudder to think what Claremont's worst late-era work is like. New Exiles was pretty joyless. One day I might read Tenth Circle and we'll see how bad it is. I want to go back and try to read Extreme X-Men one day.

Yeah, I remember you saying in older posts that you liked Generation X. It's gotta be the best thing I read that Scott Lobdell's ever done, but that's kinda a backhanded compliment.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2018, 12:07:50 PM »
Its the Tenth Circle,trust me.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2018, 02:46:18 PM »
Death of Captain Marvel.I expected a cheap gimmick,but this is actually a pretty heavy story about mortality.Maybe,just maybe,Starlin goes a bit too far in spelling out some thing for the audience.
Yes,we all know we are going to die,but deep down,we always think we will somehow escape that.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2018, 04:40:44 PM »
I really gotta read that sometime.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2018, 04:16:04 AM »
Defenders Indefensible. I dont know a lot about the Defenders,but somehow I dont think the guys behind JLI were the right choice to bring it into the new millenium.This is a very Bendis-like problem where characters dont feel like individuals,but rather as a hive mind speaking thru different mouths.Oh,and Umar had sex with Hulk.Thats the part everyone remembers.

Also,it will get another reboot soon.I guess they have to give it another try every decade or so.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2018, 04:29:51 AM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline daglob

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2018, 03:16:32 PM »
Defenders Indefensible. I dont know a lot about the Defenders,but somehow I dont think the guys behind JLI were the right choice to bring it into the new millenium.This is a very Bendis-like problem where characters dont feel like individuals,but rather as a hive mind speaking thru different mouths.Oh,and Umar had sex with Hulk.Thats the part everyone remembers.

Also,it will get another reboot soon.I guess they have to give it another try every decade or so.

Gotta keep those copyrights safe.

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2018, 03:31:54 PM »
Or rather a mercenary logic that says if something did okay in the 70s,there must still be an audience for it today.
Another favorite example of mine is how DC tries to revive Outsiders every few years.Which they are also doing soon.Again.Nothing ever dies,indeed.
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Offline daglob

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2018, 06:43:07 PM »
Or rather a mercenary logic that says if something did okay in the 70s,there must still be an audience for it today.
Another favorite example of mine is how DC tries to revive Outsiders every few years.Which they are also doing soon.Again.Nothing ever dies,indeed.

That too.

Offline Panther_Gunn

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2018, 08:59:08 PM »
Or rather a mercenary logic that says if something did okay in the 70s,there must still be an audience for it today.
Another favorite example of mine is how DC tries to revive Outsiders every few years.Which they are also doing soon.Again.Nothing ever dies,indeed.

That too.

Sooooooo...... does that mean we'll get another run at Champions?

*looks into the Google scrying pool*     :doh: god dammit...

*starts reading Wiki article* .....   :blink:  Gwenpool?!?!?!  WTF?!?  That's it!  Peace, I'm out!
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2018, 04:20:04 AM »
Wait,the 2016 version is still around?
#FireWaid
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2018, 01:40:54 AM »
Waid isn't even writing it anymore. Jim Zub is.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2018, 04:13:34 AM »
Yes,I suppose Waid is too busy making an a$$ of himself on social media to actually write comics.
But even there,he seems to be getting edged out.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2018, 11:54:13 AM »
Peter Davids Captain Marvel.Oddly for a PAD comic,this doesnt really have a central theme.Maybe of identity and legacy and sometimes sexuality.I still have the second volume to finish.
Kieron Gillens Iron Man.This is probably the most derivative comic ever.Or at least in a long while.Armored knight order,space,Malekith...its all over the place.But it has Deaths Head.
FF the new fantastic four: The titular story is the high point,other then that its passable.Also,Pineapple Thing.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2018, 10:18:32 PM »
Thanos (2003) Its something of a bridge between Infinity trilogy (how many parts are there actually,not that it matters,since its the same thing 3 times,lets face it) and Annihilation.
Eternals by Neil Gaiman.Eternals/Deviant/Celestials mythos is something I never got or never cared for,and Gaiman didnt change that.They are kinda like dollar store New Gods,but without their charm.Yes,Kirby designs,I know.
Im leafing thru OG Defenders right now and its a chore.It has its moments,like Hulk going undercover on Sons of Serpent meeting.For a non-team they sure feel like every other team.
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Offline Silver Shocker

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2018, 09:46:11 AM »
Back then Thanos was kinda a character who only popped up every few years. That feels like such a long time ago. It seems like the MCU has resulted in certain characters being overexposed and run into the ground and Thanos is one of them. I think it's kinda nice to look back at stories like from before and how quaint and restrained they were in comparison.

Going back to Captain Marvel, I remember really liking the last volume of it, but I remember it being kind of all over the place, with quest appearances by Thor being one of the random things I can remember about it. I also remember the art changing multiple times over. I think the all over the place feel is partly due to fledgling sales.

I never really got the appeal of the original Defenders myself. It probably doesn't help that I'm not much of a fan of Doctor Strange, Hulk, OR Namor but it always felt like a bit of an also-ran. A hodge-podge combination of random characters that weren't tied up in other team books at the time. Speaking of which, apparently the Secret Defenders might be coming back in the future. Crazy.

Was Gillan's Iron Man derivative of anything of particular, or just assorted things?

I recently reread Infinity Gauntlet. It was alright, but I found it kinda dragged out by the end. I appreciated that between it and Thanos Quest (which is really the story started, well that and Silver Surfer) we see Thanos use a lot of strategy and cleverness to get the stones rather than just using brute strength and threats like the movie. The only reason he is stopped is basically because of many a villain's downfall: overconfidence.
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2018, 10:12:39 AM »
Yeah,Defenders cant decide if it wants to be a team book or a team-up book.
Iron Man- Gillen manages to hit Armor Wars,Extremis,Tonys alcohol problems,scattered Mandarin rings(the cartoon did it
first) and Malekith.Because he was in a movie at the time.
Like I Said PAD ussualy had a central theme he wants to address,here it basicly all of them.Religion,Identity,growing old,legacy,ghosts
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 10:42:41 PM by HarryTrotter »
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Offline HarryTrotter

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Re: Old Skool Marvel
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2019, 10:58:05 PM »
Marvel team up by Robert Kirkman.
I give Kirkman credit for having plotlines and arcs in a book with rotating cast.
My favorite team up is Blade and Punisher.Blade spends the whole issue mansplaining stuff and Punisher ignores him until they go their separate ways.
There is also an Spiderman/Invincible team up.Thats some level of self promotion. 🙂
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer