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Author Topic: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk  (Read 2928 times)

Online catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #180 on: February 11, 2018, 10:46:34 PM »
It might be better in a more open environment, but my character is essentially stuck doing nothing for now, unless he wants to hit his friends too.

Although--how long does that bonus last?  If it's still good through his turn, then the bonus might make it worth to use it anyway.
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #181 on: February 11, 2018, 10:51:05 PM »
Like I said in game, I WANT a new pair of ACTUAL dice! No more of these blasted ones! They hate me and I despise them!
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Online catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #182 on: February 11, 2018, 10:52:55 PM »
Does transfering the shield count as a full action?
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Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #183 on: February 11, 2018, 10:58:56 PM »
Yeah, it's a standard action. You can still move in addition to it.

Remember that you can use the deflection part of it independently of the protection part. So you can keep the toughness buff for yourself, but can also defend for others. The deflect effect works against both melee and ranged physical attacks. Using it basically means that an attack needs to go through two defence checks.

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #184 on: February 11, 2018, 10:59:40 PM »
Keep the shield, Cat, it won't really become useful to WC till next round. By then I'll have recovered some of my damage...enough to move and give Reep's computer dice the finger.

Edit: I'm going to us the recovery latter, this fur-faced arse is going down! But keep the shield, Cat, as I'll have increased defense when I do use the recovery next round.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:21:33 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #185 on: February 11, 2018, 11:19:37 PM »
I'm thinking Unko's grab is a little underpowered. Grabbing is based on strength, which isn't QA's forte. Lab Rat can escape with his acrobatics skill, which is large. Even suffering the penalty from Queen Ant's Improved Hold (which I did forget in the first attempt, but went back and found it'd get resisted anyway), he'd only need to roll 2 to escape.

Elongation gives her +4 to her grab checks, but not her grab effectiveness.

The only thing I can think of is to create a power with its own grab effectiveness. If you give a power 'grab based', then the grab DC is based on the effect of that power.

We could make a dynamic array that includes the long ranged acid and short ranged weaken, as well as the grab power, essentially freeing up the required points. It stands to reason that using more than one at once would reduce the effectiveness of the others without eliminating the option to grab someone and try and melt them. Maybe throw burrow in there, now I'm thinking about it.

Also, she needs the chokehold advantage. Just sayin'.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:21:54 PM by Reepicheep »

Online catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #186 on: February 11, 2018, 11:22:53 PM »
You didn't answer the question about how long Inspire lasts.
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #187 on: February 11, 2018, 11:23:48 PM »
Then maybe you should fudge the rolls a little to make up for it. Or start handing out some hero points to ease the mistakes. ;-) And then we can consider the grab...I'd think less a grab and more a snare type idea that is a close-only. Get with me after the scenerio and I'll help you come up with some possibilities...or you could give QA Fast Grab and Grabbing Finesse advantages...if her DEX is better than STR.

EDIT: Also changed my action...sorry for the constant changes, am done now.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:41:54 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #188 on: February 11, 2018, 11:27:57 PM »
Apologies, Cat. It goes on until the end of your next turn.

The inspire effect is obviously pretty limited, but we could outfit you with an array that encompasses most of your existing attacks and adds an enhance buff to offence. You could only use one at a time, but thatís more or less the case weíre in anyway.

The effects could be

- Single Target Damage
- Cone Area Damage
- Dazzle affliction
- Deflect/Reflect
- Enhance Offence (of some sort)
- Shatter

While keeping a separate power that allows you to protect yourself.

DJ, maybe Iíll give you hero points when you quit complaining about my dice.

Grabbing finesse was on her character sheet for a little while early on, but we took it off because who remembers. It would help a little. Iím posting from my phone now and my computer is all the way over there, so I canít tell you by how much.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2018, 11:56:37 PM by Reepicheep »

Offline UnkoMan

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #189 on: February 11, 2018, 11:54:29 PM »
Looks like QA needs a bunch of overhaul then. In my mind, I thought she would be good at grabbing and holding targets (though, I think Lab Rat is suppose to be quite the slippery fellow).
Plus with her colony of ants body she'd be able to do other stuff while holding somebody down. That is what I thought.
I'm okay with giving her a total rework, but sorry about the extra trouble it will be Reep!

Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #190 on: February 11, 2018, 11:59:06 PM »
Oh, I donít think itís a major job at all. In fact, it could end up saving some points rather than costing them. Most of your stats could safely remain where they are, though a little extra defence may be called for.

This whole scene was about throwing the characters at the wall and seeing what sticks. Literally, in DJís case.

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #191 on: February 12, 2018, 12:00:42 AM »
But I'm just following my complications:

Dice Purist - DJ prefers the use of actual die instead of the slightly untrustworthiness of randomize number generating computer programs. He will voice it loudly when the program constantly rolls twenties against him.

M&M joke... :-P

Also your joke stunk, Reep. :-P

Oh, and you might want to see if Ratboy overcomes QA's hold or my trip before Unko's turn so he can decide what to do for actions. :)
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 12:06:33 AM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline UnkoMan

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #192 on: February 12, 2018, 12:13:45 AM »
Oh can he overcome before my turn? Because it'd be your move, then the rat, then me right? Truth.
If he gets out or not, I'm going to come to the same conclusion. The thing he has is probably what's causing the vibrations, so time to get it away and neutralize it. Acid up, acid up. Hope he doesn't manage to dodge it.

EDIT: Now I am reading about how grabbing works https://roninarmy.com/threads/4980-3e-How-does-Grabs-and-Fast-Grab-work
https://roninarmy.com/threads/899-Elongation-and-Grab-bonus  (Was not that helpful, ha ha)
I also have that improved hold right? So they get -5 circumstance? He still only needs a 2 though, hey? Hmm.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 12:41:58 AM by UnkoMan »

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #193 on: February 12, 2018, 12:55:59 AM »
Rat gets a chance to overcome the grab during his turn. As for the grab, the reason he has such a low number to overcome your grab is because it's his DEX vs your STR. That's why I mentioned Grabbing Finesse...it would mean your DEX VS his DEX instead and may give you a better chance at maintaining the grab.  That's also why I went for the trip this round instead of the recovery or the attack cause Rat will have to use a move action if he wants to stand up.

And I'll say that the forums for M&M are a bit...weird...because you get 2e info combined with 3e at the same time. If you're not careful, things get screwy fast. Just ask Reep about what it was like before I shared a few things with him...

Also, I'll be using my next full turn as a recovery action.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:29:54 AM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline UnkoMan

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #194 on: February 12, 2018, 02:42:14 AM »
Ahhhh...

Yeah, my dex would be better to use AND grabbing finesse seems to already have Improved Grab bundled. Should have just gone for that in the first place. I didn't realize the hold part is reliant on strength, but also reading it, it seems like grabs give lots of chances to get away. Two per turn? How would I ever start putting a chokehold on somebody?

And yeah, they got all sorts of interesting but confusing stuff. https://roninarmy.com/threads/4372-Area-Grabs-Trips-and-Disarms
Or even this info, "Grappling Block from Warriors and Warlocks lets you get a free grab when you are unarmed and successfully block in melee combat."
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:46:56 AM by UnkoMan »

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #195 on: February 12, 2018, 03:21:37 AM »
Both of those are 2E examples instead of 3e. The one prob with the trip I went for is Reep gave Ratso Prone Fighting and high ability scores (seeing as he's rarely comes out with a combined result below a 12 yet - not blaming the dice on that...). Who knows, I could be smoking something?

I'm just hoping Ratface doesn't keep up with the 20 die rolls against me, or maybe he decides one of you two look like easier targets next round...

With how this whole scenerio has gone and my luck, I STRONGLY doubt any of  that happening...

To be honest, for awhile a part of me has considered asking Reep to kill WC and calling it a day...and that has nothing to do at all with the dice rolls. I could care less about those right now, so don't even confuse what I just said with that! I am not going to eloborate on it, though. Not my place or want to right now. For the moment, I'll ride the game out - no matter how it goes - and we'll see what happens afterwards.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:08:01 AM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #196 on: February 12, 2018, 08:54:06 AM »
If he gets out or not, I'm going to come to the same conclusion. The thing he has is probably what's causing the vibrations, so time to get it away and neutralize it. Acid up, acid up. Hope he doesn't manage to dodge it.

Roger. That helps, thank you.

I think I remember our discussion being that QA was looking too grab-centric as we were approaching the PL limit. Itíll definitely be worth exhanging a couple of advantages to bring back that focus.

Though DJís idea of easing off the grab and picking an immobilising affliction effect on a power is a good one. Weíd have more control over how the power works, and we can tailor the outcome to the same effect as grab. Plus you donít lose mobility when grabbing. It can be made harder to resist too. All sorts of fun.

It could even be part of your dynamic array that weíll do. Itíll lose its effectiveness (by half, iirc?) if you try and attack the ensnared target. But that makes sense.


As for finding advice online, Iíve just started taking the corebook at face value. Iíll try and find other incidents of whatever it is weíre trying to do for reference, but straight up advice is either convoluted or unhelpful. Except where they reference page numbers - thatís handy.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 08:57:59 AM by Reepicheep »

Offline UnkoMan

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #197 on: February 12, 2018, 09:12:46 AM »
That could have been true. We did discuss a lot of possibilities that, after play start, I totally forgot about. Ha ha ha, whoops.
You lost me with that dynamic array stuff though.
But you guys are right about these forums. The info I found is all over the place.

So, steady on. Let's see what shakes loose.

Hopefully we can get this sucker before he beats on poor Wild Card too much.

Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #198 on: February 12, 2018, 09:25:34 AM »
An array or dynamic array are powers with multiple effects, but you can only use one effect at a time (or in a dynamic array, multiple effects at reduced power).

The key thing is, you only pay for the most expensive effect.

Itís easy to abuse and just give yourself all the things, so I have to manage it a bit. But now that Iím seeing the characters in action and understanding more about what you guys hope to get out of them, designing these sorts of powers is much, much easier. There was zero chance I was ginna get it right first time.

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #199 on: February 12, 2018, 03:18:27 PM »
There's one prob with your idea on the immobilizing affliction. QA would have to put a sustained effect if you wanted to hold it for more than one round thus keeping the character from taking any action aside from moving and sustaining the power. Without the sustained effect, it becomes a one round effect and he ends up wasting each turn using immobolize and nothing else.

In truth, QA is a character idea better suited for a PL 10 or higher game to make her viable.

And with the array, you spend the highest cost plus 1 for every power added after that. Making every thing dynamic adds to the cost of each power too. I think it makes each power after the highest cost 2 pts instead, per the power additions section.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:22:35 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #200 on: February 12, 2018, 04:03:36 PM »
And on the thought of LB taking down WC, Unko, at this point it would be fine by me. I just don't care anymore if it goes that way or not. I'm at the point of just walking away from this whole thing.

Course if I go down, that pretty much means a lose on the session because of the lack of offensive powers for your's and Cat's characters. Rat will tear thru you unless the GM does something to balance things out for you two or brings in some type of hail mary/out-of-nowhere help/intrusion to make things easier for you two.

While I've no idea what is in Reep's mind, the actions and LR's stats seem to be set more for a four person team - each with an offensive power - compared to what we have and no one has earned a hero point beyond the one they start with or such to help things...I doubt it. But that's just my honest opinion and right now...it's worth less than used toilet paper.

Yeah, I'm tired, a little annoyed, and getting to the point of regretting ever participating in this. Nobody take it personal, though, it's more how this whole adventure scenerio and how things have gone - from very early on - that has me like this. It's a combo of a lot of things. <sighes>
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 04:18:39 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline UnkoMan

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #201 on: February 12, 2018, 04:36:10 PM »
I'm sorry to hear that. I was really excited about this whole thing! I still am greatly enjoying the story and where it is going. But, you got to do what you got to do. Nobody can blame you for that.

I still hope to see how this plays out. And cat posts soon! Ha ha.

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #202 on: February 12, 2018, 04:47:14 PM »
Unko, you're new to playing so I can understand your excubrance - everything is new and interesting and fun.

Me, I'm an old table top rpg warhorse (I've helped in developing some even) and there are somethings I kind of expect from everyone involved to have fun and immerse myself in the character/game. I'm okay with working with newbies and teaching them. I don't expect as much from them as I do others...

This has just felt more like a job to me for some time now. I know that once this scenerio is over Reep plans to talk some about it and hope to fix it or something. I just don't know if I really care about getting there anymore...and yeah, Cat, please post for your turn when you get the chance.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:02:34 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #203 on: February 12, 2018, 05:17:54 PM »
Lab Rat is PL7, with fewer points spent than the PL limit. If he hadn't rolled so many crits, he shouldn't have been an issue.

DJ, everything you've done to help and to keep me in check has been hugely appreciated, but I never asked you to do it. You shouldn't feel like you should have to. After I had finished setting things up, I wanted to stop treating it like hard work as well. I don't put much time of my days into this if I can help it, else it stops being a game - or even an exercise in creative writing, which was a large reason for me to do it - and becomes a labour.

But if you're not having fun, you're not having fun. I can't really do much to change that.

Sorry

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #204 on: February 12, 2018, 05:20:19 PM »
Yeah...well...<sighes>...and it's not all about you either, Reep, and you know that...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:22:30 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #205 on: February 12, 2018, 05:49:08 PM »
...though without my initial help via PDFs, you may have given up on the game before it started...
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Offline Reepicheep

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #206 on: February 12, 2018, 05:50:52 PM »
I was trying to decide on the nicest way to say this, but I don't think there is a pleasant way.

The game is marred by knowing it's a labour for others. It's hard to want to carry on now that it's clear that one another might not be enjoying this game. It has now, for me, stopped being a story and will become a drag to the end.

Selfishly, I don't want to play under that circumstance.

So I'll call it there. Thanks folks.

Offline UnkoMan

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #207 on: February 12, 2018, 06:05:39 PM »
Aw rats.
All that work! I'm sure you had some interesting things planned Reep.

Well, I'm disappointed, but can't begrudge anybody. I had an enjoyable time and thanks for trying. If anybody wants to start something like this up in the future, count me in.
I can even make a more mundane type of character, if it will help with the game.

At least now I don't have to check the forums twenty times a day, to see if anybody updated anything.

Offline Deaths Jester

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #208 on: February 12, 2018, 06:11:41 PM »
I was trying to decide on the nicest way to say this, but I don't think there is a pleasant way.

The game is marred by knowing it's a labour for others. It's hard to want to carry on now that it's clear that one another might not be enjoying this game. It has now, for me, stopped being a story and will become a drag to the end.

Selfishly, I don't want to play under that circumstance.

So I'll call it there. Thanks folks.

<whacks Reep upside the head>

Let's finish this {expletive}-ing scenario before deciding that!!  I have yet to say or decide if I'm actually quitting or not!  Jeez..jump the gun much?!?!  And thanks for putting it all at my feet too....

Just cause it's not working right now is no bloody reason to call it completely!  Let's get thru this scenario and then talk it over like you had originally told me you would before making this dangnabit decision!  You got two players who are enjoying themselves and would at least like to see this part through...so let's finish it!  And hell, maybe I'll start having fun again with it..who bloody knows if we don't continue it!

And before anyone asks me...I will not GM a game...
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 07:06:35 PM by Deaths Jester »
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Online catwhowalksbyhimself

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Re: Mutants & Masterminds - Table Talk
« Reply #209 on: February 12, 2018, 08:55:04 PM »
Sorry I didn't post sooner.  I was at work and was unaware folks were waiting on me.

And now this.  I was personally very much enjoying it and was hopeful it wouldn't just stop like all other attempts to do an rpg on these forums has.  Oh well.  I, for one, was having fun.
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