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Avengers 101

Started by BentonGrey, April 29, 2018, 04:28:04 AM

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Deaths Jester

I talking about the current heroic Black Knight, Dane Whitman. Jeez...
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

BentonGrey

That's the same fellow who appeared back in Avengers #48.  I haven't read the one you're talking about DJ, but I've heard good things about it.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Deaths Jester

#32
Ah but back in Avengers 48, Whitman was undecided on being a hero or not. By the time he "joins" Zemo's group, he has decided to be a good guy (if memory serves me right but it is hazy)...it makes sense if you read it and stuff from the story pops up quite often afterwards...
Avatar picture originally a Brom painting entitled Marionette.

HarryTrotter

@Benton Funny thing is,Stan Lee's writing work for larger-then-life characters like Thor or Silver Surfer.
@DJ I think you are refering to Under Siege.

TBH,I cant say that I was ever a fan of Avengers Silver and Bronze age aestetics.Or their Chromium age,for different reasons.
I still believe in that there are no bad characters,only bad writers,but I have never seen a version of Vision that I liked.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

kkhohoho

Quote from: Deaths Jester on May 09, 2018, 04:14:17 AM
Ah but back in Avengers 48, Whitman was undecided on being a hero or not. By the time he "joins" Zemo's group, he has decided to be a good guy (if memory serves me right but it is hazy)...it makes sense if you read it and stuff from the story pops up quite often afterwards...

Your memory is hazy. (No offense.) Dane became a good guy almost from the outset. He was a reservist Avenger ever since the 60's and finally joined full-time early in Roger Stern's run. Long before Assault on Avengers Mansion.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

kkhohoho

Quote from: HarryTrotter on May 09, 2018, 05:39:45 AM
@Benton Funny thing is,Stan Lee's writing work for larger-then-life characters like Thor or Silver Surfer.
@DJ I think you are refering to Under Siege.

TBH,I cant say that I was ever a fan of Avengers Silver and Bronze age aestetics.Or their Chromium age,for different reasons.
I still believe in that there are no bad characters,only bad writers,but I have never seen a version of Vision that I liked.

Oh come on. He's a classic. He was practically the group's mascot for ages. Lots of Avengers fans love him.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

HarryTrotter

Which is cool,but I personally dont like him.But then again,I only liked Hawkeye when Busiek and Nicieza were writing him,so I have a lot of unpopular opinions.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

#37
Alright guys, I've finished my reviewing and selection.  Here is the document I'm sending my friend, along with the comics.  You'll find my selection and some rationale under the intro:
Spoiler

Quote
Intro:
Spoiler

The Avengers 101:
An Overview of Key Moments, Important Characters, and Just Plain Fun Comics

This document serves as an introduction to, and a guide through, a selection of comics that provide an overview and primer for The Avengers.  I've included introductory information for the different comic eras covered (think literary eras), as well as providing a little information about the individual stories and arcs included. 

Keep in mind as you read, that these books are the product of a different time with different expectations and standards.  The Silver Age comics (and many of the later ones as well) will tend to be silly and majorly overwritten, but they are also fun and innocently entertaining.  Try to read them with an indulgent and patient eye, like we do occasionally with classic films, acknowledging their foibles as part of their charm.  I also occasionally find it useful to skim the copious narration and dialog rather than let it weigh you down.

You'll notice that there are some major differences between what you see in the comics and what you see on film, in part because the characters in the comics will evolve over the years.  You'll find the characters both similar and different from their cinematic counterparts.  For example, Iron Man has much less personality than his film version, and it is Hawkeye instead of Tony who plays the mouthy, quippy counterpart to the straight-laced Captain America. 

Interestingly, Hawkeye has one of the more notable arcs throughout the series, and you'll see him grow from a hot-headed loose cannon with no respect for anyone into a team player with a deep affection for his teammates.  Often times very simple characters, especially villains, will grow into much more interesting versions as time passes.  Yet, the movies generally do a wonderful job of capturing the cores of the characters and worlds of the Marvel Universe. 

One of the most unique features of American superhero comics is the sprawling continuity of a shared history, which the Marvel films have been able to replicate so successfully.  This is part of what makes comics so entertaining and interesting, the idea that what happens to one character may have an impact all across the setting or even years down the line.  I've tried to provide some sense of that in my selection of titles.  You'll see writers picking up events and characters from years before and developing them in new and interesting ways, and you'll see the continuity grow into a rich and varied history. 

Comics:
Spoiler

Silver Age Intro:
Spoiler
•   The Silver Age: Beginning in 1959 with DC bringing superheroes back after they had mostly faded away (with the exception of Batman, Superman, and a few others) following WWII (The Golden Age), this era was full of wildly imaginative stories, simplistic writing, two dimensional characters, and all under the watchful gaze of the Comics Code Authority, which kept things G rated.  Marvel arrived on the scene in 1961, and their entire universe was almost singlehandedly created by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, who at their height, were producing over half a dozen books a month.  Today, an artist might, at most, do two.  Lee, for all of his faults and overwriting, was incredibly innovative and injected personality and drama into superheroes when that hadn't really been done before, giving his heroes relatable problems and struggles that made them more human.  This was one of the defining characteristics of Marvel, and it would take DC a decade to catch up.  The stories from this era are the beginnings of the Marvel Universe and form the foundations for all that follows.
o   1: Avengers Assembling, here you can see the fairly humble beginnings, both of the team, and of the Marvel Comics universe.  Along with Fantastic Four, which it followed, this book paved the way for everything to come.  Responding to DC's creation of the JLA in the same fashion, Stan Lee took every superhero character featured in Marvel Comics at the time and teamed them up.  The rest is history.
o   4: Captain America joins the team; With Cap re-entering Marvel history in a story dating from 1964, it's interesting to think about how much closer WWII was to that tale than it is to the modern day and how that shift changes Cap's experiences.  It was common in stories from this era for Cap to meet people who had known him during the war.
o   6-7: The first Masters of Evil story (anti-Avengers); This introduces an important part of the Avengers mythos and provides a good sample story from the early days of the team and their book.
o   8: First appearance of Kang; This time-traveling tyrant willl become one of the Avengers' best and most memorable villains.  Note the similarities to the science fiction classic, The Day the Earth Stood Still (1951), a clear inspiration.
o   9: Wonder Man intro; This tale of mad science, betrayal, and 11th hour heroism will have long-lasting consequences.
o   16: The Changing of the Guard; Quicksilver, the Scarlet Witch, and Hawkeye join the team, forming "Cap's Quirky Quartet."  This begins one of the defining traits of the Avengers, a rotating cast, as their membership changes very often, especially compared to DC's JLA.  Note how charmingly quotidian it all is, with rules, bylaws, and formal announcements.
o   19-20: Meet the Swordsman; This comic introduces a favorite character of mine, a villain who will become significant in future issues as something rather more, and this is a rather unusual story, with an antagonist who isn't just scenery-chewing evil.
o   26-27: Atlantis Attacks; This one is a fun, action-packed early adventure that visits a corner of the Marvel Universe not yet seen in the films.
o   54-55: The return of the Masters of Evil; But it is more than that, it is also the introduction of a very important villain, someone we've seen in the movies.
o   57-8: Creation of the Vision; While this storyline is utterly cliché today, with the 'how do we define humanity' question a constant staple of science fiction, when this tale was written it was pretty groundbreaking, especially for comics.
o   59-60: Yellowjackets and Wedding Bells; We see an Avengers' wedding which proves important to the future of the concerned characters and the team, plus, this issue provides a fun glimpse of the Marvel Universe at large as wedding guests show up.  You'll likely see some familiar faces from the MCU.
o   69-71: Kang vs. The Grand Master; A time-spanning game between demigods with the Avengers caught in the middle, and as a special treat, the introduction of an ersatz version of DC's rival super team, the Justice League

Bronze Age Intro:
Spoiler
•   The Bronze Age: Beginning roughly in 1970 and extending through the mid 80s, this era saw increasing complexity and sophistication in the genre, with a new generation of creators and fans arriving, many of whom grew up reading the books of the pervious period.  This was also a time of increased social awareness and relevance in comics, as creators attempted to tackle some of the social issues that were plaguing contemporary America, like racism, drug use, and sexism.  This era saw Watergate and other scandals, and such social upheavals were reflected in the comics of the day, leading to an overall more cynical, disillusioned perspective.  Captain America even renounced his title in a heavily fictionalized version of that event, ashamed at what his country had become.  These changes didn't happen overnight, and a story from 1970 is usually not going to be that different from one from 1969, but the genre is growing up.  This is my favorite era of comics, as the stories get better, as does the art (oftentimes, though with notable exceptions), while there is still a solid moral core, with heroes still acting heroic. 
o   85-86: Introducing the Squadron Supreme; Meet the complete lineup of the ersatz JLA in a really solid two issue tale that makes good use of literary allusions. (Suggested pre-reading: Browning's poem, "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came")
o   89-97: Kree/Skrull War; This is one of the relatively early universe spanning adventures, providing a nice glimpse of the scope of the MU, something of a tour of major players and settings, plus a good, high-drama story
     -FYI: Don't worry if you don't know anything about Captain Marvel, you'll get a recap about him in the second issue.
o   Avengers 115-118, Defenders 8-10: The Avengers / Defenders War; A conflict between two of Marvel's super teams that features a wide range of characters and an interesting story.  Read the issues in alternating order, starting with the Avengers 115, but you can skip to its epilogue, which is on page 25.  This story perfectly captures an enduring Marvel trope, where two groups of heroes meet, have a misunderstanding, and fight, only to sort things out and team up in the end.  It's time-worn but still fun.
o   160: The Trial of the Vision; A villain known as the Grim Reaper puts the Vision and Wonder Man on trial to see who the real Simon Williams is, a good character driven yarn.
o   161-162: Jocasta Introduced; Another stage in the development of Ultron as a character, with a new wrinkle in the form of a 'wife' for him who becomes something more.  She'll play a role in future stories and adds to the continuing treatment of the 'what is human' theme.
o   164-166: The Avengers Battle Count Nefaria; Featuring something of an evil Superman, this is a desperate and action-packed set of issues that provides one of the best super-brawls in Avengers history.
o   167-168, 170-177: The Korvac Saga; a sprawling, cosmic story that brings the (original) Guardians of the Galaxy together with the Avengers in a similar fashion to Infinity War.  It also features several characters from the films, like the Collector, who shows up in GotG.  This story captures what is known as "Marvel Cosmic," a trend towards big ideas and conceptually challenging comics with a cosmic scale.  It serves as a fitting capstone to the team's first two decades of development.

I think I'll make a generalized version of this and put it on my blog, sort of like my Aquaman Primer.

I'm pretty happy with my list, but if my friend is interested, I may eventually expand it into some of the more modern stuff that y'all mentioned.  I decided to cut several things out as they just weren't as good as I remembered or simply were a bit too much for the kind of project I had in mind.  Thank you all for you help!  Y'all made this more fun and much easier!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

HarryTrotter

#38
So,you stoped reading the comic in 1978? :p
Also,it might be easier to seek out collected editions,at least for the crossovers.
And on top of everything mentioned before,there is #125,the one where Thanos becomes a god.Sure,that happens every few days,but this is the first case IIRC.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

BentonGrey

I have the 44 Years of the Avengers DVD, and I've only read through to the late 70s / early 80s. 

Fortunately, I think I've got all of the books I need at the moment.

Yeah, I considered that one, but it draws on a bunch of stuff from CM's own book and would have been a bit hard to follow on its own, I think.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

kkhohoho

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 02:33:24 PM
I have the 44 Years of the Avengers DVD, and I've only read through to the late 70s / early 80s. 


What made you stop? I mean, sure, there's some real crap that happens later down the line, but most of the mid-late 80's Avengers stuff (including West Coast,) is still good reading. In particular, the Stern run is a keeper.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

BentonGrey

Ohh, it wasn't a conscious decision or anything.  I just started doing other things.  I'll go back and read more eventually.  Actually, I had apparently stopped several years before the Korvac Saga, but y'all's suggestions spurred me to read a bit further, which was great fun.

For a while I was reading Avengers, FF, and some other Marvel books in big chunks, but I guess I got distracted.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

kkhohoho

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 05:09:34 PM
Ohh, it wasn't a conscious decision or anything.  I just started doing other things.  I'll go back and read more eventually.  Actually, I had apparently stopped several years before the Korvac Saga, but y'all's suggestions spurred me to read a bit further, which was great fun.

For a while I was reading Avengers, FF, and some other Marvel books in big chunks, but I guess I got distracted.

Ah. Okey-dokey.

...You haven't read Avengers #200 yet, have you?

GOD was that a dumpster fire.
The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

BentonGrey

I actually looked it up after y'all's comments....urg...sounds pretty bad.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

kkhohoho

The Golden Age; 'A different look at a different era.'

http://archiveofourown.org/works/1089779/chapters/2193203

HarryTrotter

Quote from: BentonGrey on May 25, 2018, 02:33:24 PM

Yeah, I considered that one, but it draws on a bunch of stuff from CM's own book and would have been a bit hard to follow on its own, I think.
Thats going to be a recurring problem.Hey kids,want to know why Tony is a former alcoholic?
Its similar for everyone else.Except Hawkeye.His only defining trait is that hes an Avenger.Seriously,thats all he got.It only got better in the Modern age.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer