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Author Topic: DCUG Tuneup  (Read 455 times)

Online BentonGrey

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DCUG Tuneup
« on: May 20, 2018, 03:18:22 AM »
Howdy folks!  I'm working on reconditioning and re-releasing the DCUG, and as part of that, I'm revisiting and updating some HFs.  I'll be posting the things I'm working on here.

At the moment, I'm working on:

Hourman.  He's only got two powers, other than his custom Miraclo attribute.  He's got a solid punch with KB and a 3 hit combo.  This really illustrates how much my character design has changed over the years!  Anyway, I'm looking to expand his HF a bit.  Any suggestions?
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Offline detourne_me

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 03:56:57 AM »
I'd give him a tumble or sprint as well.
When i think about melee attacks i ask myself a few questions...
If its a 1 hit - will it cause a lot of damage? Stun them to set up for another attack? Or knock them away to create some distance?
If its a multiple hit combo - will it be a 'killing blow' causing lots of damage? Will it be to hit multiple enemies, like if he is surrounded?
By asking those questions I think you can justify a lot of different melee attacks...
Otherwise I prefer to keep it simple like your previous HF for Hourman

Offline daglob

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 04:11:18 AM »
Perhaps Heavy Lifter, so he can throw things?

Offline oktokels

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 10:10:40 AM »
since its a time related character, i put him some speed buff and debuff moves... and a special 300 percenter move called "miraclo pill",  in the attributes he have precognitive and danger sense, to emulate his "time vision".

« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 10:31:51 AM by oktokels »

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 05:17:26 PM »
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys; they were helpful!

My current build has a custom attribute called Miraclo, which gives him super strength and speed when he uses a custom command, but it only lasts 30 minutes (I figured an hour of game time would effectively be the same as it being permanent.

DM, that's pretty much my approach, but you're pointing it out helped solidify ideas for me.

OK, this is Hourman I, but you still helped me, so thanks man!  :)

DG, if I had a different build, that would work.

So, I've added a few new powers, but I'm toying with some other ideas, and I'd like y'all's take on them.

I've given him a quick, two-contact melee attack that does low damage but high stun (a favorite of my new design philosophy), and a high damage, extreme KB attack for tough foes and to get some breathing room.

The ones I'm toying with are a Sprint (thanks to OK) and an area, ground-slam attack with some knockback and low damage.

Here's the hitch: These would both be powers predicated on miraclo, but the player would have access to them all the time, even before they used the miraclo command, which would somewhat break the concept.  What do y'all think?  Is it better to have the purity or the playability? 
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
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Offline spydermann93

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 08:22:03 PM »
One way that I handled Hourman a couple years back is that I gave him Shapeshifter where the Temporary Form was his "Miraclo" form, but it would only last one minute. It would drain his energy, but it boosted his stats substantially. In his normal form, he had weak melee attacks, but ok stun so that he could keep foes off of him (but not overly so). His powered form had stronger punches, but not at much crowd-control. He was meant for laying the hurt as fast as he can. Very bursty.

Offline oktokels

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2018, 10:39:08 PM »
Is it better to have the purity or the playability?

In my opinion, first i choose purity, to establish a base of the character that is canon to the comics or movies. Then if some of those attributes or powers doesnt work well with the game, then i tweak or delete them (or give new powers) to make the character more eficient in game.  In the case of hourman, i prefer to give him a 300 percenter special move to translate his miraclo pill move, because i think this move emulates better the low durability of the pill effect... but its really a matter of wheter you like it or not how a character is performing in game... this is what i really like about this game, the freedom to make this choises... freedom force !! lol  :P


Offline detourne_me

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2018, 11:20:05 PM »
Another option is to give him the Battery Powered, Metabolic Strength and Slow Starter attributes, so he starts with zero energy, but if you use a hero point he powers up. All of his high damage moves could cost energy, while the low damage moves are zero energy.

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 10:06:57 PM »
Howdy guys, thanks for some great ideas!  I hadn't responded because I've been pondering my options, but I wanted to thank y'all for your thoughtful responses!  Stay tuned for some more tune-up posts!  I'm almost done writing missions, which means it will be time to work on HFs.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 04:38:10 AM »
Okay, I'm crossposting this in the my request thread.  I need to tweak my Superman/Lex Luthor setup.  My original build was Supes with Vulnerability and Accidental Change, triggered by Alien Mineral and Lex Luthor's Toxic attribute.  The Change would spawn a weakened, K-Poisoned version of Supes, who would revert back after a while.  I had that because Supes' invulnerability wasn't affected by Vulnerability, ironically.  This is a little clunky and poses some major problems for using him in EZScripted missions, as, if he gets called on by the script by name while poisoned, it could crash the mission or at least break it.  I'd like to streamline the build.  Anyone have any ideas?  Anyone know enough about attributes to tweak Vulnerability to remove INvulnerability?
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
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Offline spydermann93

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2018, 05:21:23 AM »
Okay, I'm crossposting this in the my request thread.  I need to tweak my Superman/Lex Luthor setup.  My original build was Supes with Vulnerability and Accidental Change, triggered by Alien Mineral and Lex Luthor's Toxic attribute.  The Change would spawn a weakened, K-Poisoned version of Supes, who would revert back after a while.  I had that because Supes' invulnerability wasn't affected by Vulnerability, ironically.  This is a little clunky and poses some major problems for using him in EZScripted missions, as, if he gets called on by the script by name while poisoned, it could crash the mission or at least break it.  I'd like to streamline the build.  Anyone have any ideas?  Anyone know enough about attributes to tweak Vulnerability to remove INvulnerability?

Vulnerability should remove Invulnerability no problem. The issue is Physical Resistance which doesn't get removed. I believe I sent you a "fix" a long time ago where Vulnerability did remove it (might've been for Marvel Adventures), but it wasn't perfect. It sometimes didn't re-add Physical Resistance which could be problematic.

What you could do is keep Superman's Invulnerable (05), but remove Physical Resistance and chance his typing to Concrete in FFEdit. Here are the benefits to it:

1) There won't be a permanent Physical Resistance on him preventing the 1 damage per second that Vulnerability causes.

2) It would make him resistant to all attacks except Energy, which seems to be what you use for Kryptonite weapons, if I remember correctly. He would still reduce the damage a bit with his invulnerability, but it won't be cut in half. Plus, he'll be highly resistant to Piercing. He is the Man of Steel, after all :P

3) He'll have a natural resistance to stuns which is always nice.

4) He'll still be vulnerable to Mystic attacks. He isn't weak to them like he would be with Stone, so it fits nicely with his actual powerset, i.e. not being weak to magic, just didn't have a resistance to it.

5) When he takes a knockout blow, he won't take unreduced damage. With Physical Resistance, say he had 20 health left and takes a 20 damage hit. Physical Resistance wouldn't work since he would be KO'd before the script proc'd, but with Concrete, he'll not only automatically reduce it by half, but the invulnerability will proc, too. So that 20 would become 5 damage.

6) If you're worried about Earth Control affecting him, I don't believe it actually will. I don't think Earth Control affects Concrete characters, but if it does, you can change his subtype to Flesh in his m25ai section.

I'll have to look at Lex again, but that's what I got for Superman's Vulnerability issue.

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2018, 04:17:31 PM »
Spyder my friend, haha, you know my work better than I do!  I had forgotten your fix, but now that you mention it, you're absolutely right.  Could you take a look at the code to make sure I've actually got it in place?  What file is that in?

Great suggestions man, and you make a good argument!  I'm hesitant to move away from my Physical Resistance model because the whole mod is balanced with that concept.  I'll consider that, but the balancing issues are probably prohibitive.  PR scales with all damage, while material type is static, so upper leveling scaling (and that's where Supes lives) would be an issue.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 04:19:17 PM by BentonGrey »
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
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Offline spydermann93

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 02:10:14 AM »
Should be in ffx.py under "theworks", but I seem to have removed it in my code :doh:

I'm going to poke around and see if I still have the "fix" or not.

As for physical resistance balance, it is true that it blocks all damage types (aside from mental damage), but unless paired with grim resolve, it offers no stun resistance and there still is that issue of lethal damage not being blocked, which I've tried to fix, but I couldn't find a way to do it. With the fix, it is better, though. I tend to waffle on balancing decisions, so I tend to think either is fine, haha

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 06:04:43 AM »
Haha, yeah, well my design philosophy changed between DCUG and MA, which is why there are a LOT more guys with materials instead of just PR in MA.  BUT, I don't have the time or energy to rebuild the DCUG's balance from the ground up, so I'm sticking with its original design philosophy. 

You're certainly not wrong, my friend.  The PR system has significant disadvantages, not least of which is that you can't get around it with powers like Genetic Damage.  That's a major reason I changed things in MA.  Nonetheless, the advantages, especially at higher power levels, which are more prevalent in DC anyway, are enough to keep me mostly happy.

Unfortunately, it looks like I don't have your fix either in my ffx.py.  I'm searched the forums and looked where I thought it might be as well, but no luck.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2018, 04:17:10 AM »
:EDIT: I've added the Mist's HF.

Howdy folks!  So, I'm starting a new round of character building.  In addition to others, I'm working on some JSA villains and Golden Age characters.  To start with, does anyone have any HFs they like for Killer Frost, Liberty Belle, the Mist, or Icicle I?

I'm trying to find an interesting and fun way to capture Liberty Belle's powers.  Basically, she had a friend who would ring the Liberty Bell, and she would get increased strength, speed, and stamina thanks to a fragment of it she carried with her.  These are relatively minor enhancements.  She wasn't throwing cars or anything.  What would be a fun way to capture that?  I thought about Metabolic, but that isn't quite right.  A 300 Percenter power would be too limited.  Ideas?

I've already started my process, and I have HFs for the Gambler and the Fiddler with which I'm relatively happy.  Check them out.  I'd love some feedback!

The Gambler
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He's got a number of tricky attacks, regular shots with his gun, but also gas and smoke attacks and some acid-dipped cards.  Plus, he can handle himself in a brawl, as he's got a 3 contact melee attack as well.

The Fiddler
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Fiddler is all about mind control, but he also has some damaging attacks.  I really ran out of space on him, as he could use a few more powers.  He's got a nice area attack to throw back any speedsters that get in his face, and he can manipulate the environment with his fiddle, using disruption beams, and I've given him Puppet Master so he can create his own minions.  I'm torn on whether to use energy or crushing for his musical attacks.  Normally, I use crushing for sonic attacks, but his are MAGICAL sonic attacks.  Ideas?  I'm also debating increasing his direct power range.

The Mist:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I spent, no kidding, an hour editing keys for this guy, only to realize that the perfect keys already existed...male_swimming.  D'oh!  Now he floats around all mist-like and seems pretty fitting.  I've got him a range of melee attacks, and a medium area mind control power.  He can also become invisible, and I will add a phasing power.  What else should he be able to do?  Anything?  I've given him a very high PD that will let most attacks pass through him, but I like to leave some type of weakness in such a power.  Any ideas for what would be fitting?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 09:11:53 PM by BentonGrey »
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out my DC voicepacks at my yahoo group.
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey/
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/bentongrey2