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Author Topic: DCUG Tuneup  (Read 1681 times)

Online BentonGrey

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DCUG Tuneup
« on: May 20, 2018, 03:18:22 AM »
Howdy folks!  I'm working on reconditioning and re-releasing the DCUG, and as part of that, I'm revisiting and updating some HFs.  I'll be posting the things I'm working on here.

At the moment, I'm working on:

Hourman.  He's only got two powers, other than his custom Miraclo attribute.  He's got a solid punch with KB and a 3 hit combo.  This really illustrates how much my character design has changed over the years!  Anyway, I'm looking to expand his HF a bit.  Any suggestions?
God Bless
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Offline detourne_me

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 03:56:57 AM »
I'd give him a tumble or sprint as well.
When i think about melee attacks i ask myself a few questions...
If its a 1 hit - will it cause a lot of damage? Stun them to set up for another attack? Or knock them away to create some distance?
If its a multiple hit combo - will it be a 'killing blow' causing lots of damage? Will it be to hit multiple enemies, like if he is surrounded?
By asking those questions I think you can justify a lot of different melee attacks...
Otherwise I prefer to keep it simple like your previous HF for Hourman

Offline daglob

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 04:11:18 AM »
Perhaps Heavy Lifter, so he can throw things?

Offline oktokels

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 10:10:40 AM »
since its a time related character, i put him some speed buff and debuff moves... and a special 300 percenter move called "miraclo pill",  in the attributes he have precognitive and danger sense, to emulate his "time vision".

« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 10:31:51 AM by oktokels »

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2018, 05:17:26 PM »
Thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys; they were helpful!

My current build has a custom attribute called Miraclo, which gives him super strength and speed when he uses a custom command, but it only lasts 30 minutes (I figured an hour of game time would effectively be the same as it being permanent.

DM, that's pretty much my approach, but you're pointing it out helped solidify ideas for me.

OK, this is Hourman I, but you still helped me, so thanks man!  :)

DG, if I had a different build, that would work.

So, I've added a few new powers, but I'm toying with some other ideas, and I'd like y'all's take on them.

I've given him a quick, two-contact melee attack that does low damage but high stun (a favorite of my new design philosophy), and a high damage, extreme KB attack for tough foes and to get some breathing room.

The ones I'm toying with are a Sprint (thanks to OK) and an area, ground-slam attack with some knockback and low damage.

Here's the hitch: These would both be powers predicated on miraclo, but the player would have access to them all the time, even before they used the miraclo command, which would somewhat break the concept.  What do y'all think?  Is it better to have the purity or the playability? 
God Bless
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Offline spydermann93

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2018, 08:22:03 PM »
One way that I handled Hourman a couple years back is that I gave him Shapeshifter where the Temporary Form was his "Miraclo" form, but it would only last one minute. It would drain his energy, but it boosted his stats substantially. In his normal form, he had weak melee attacks, but ok stun so that he could keep foes off of him (but not overly so). His powered form had stronger punches, but not at much crowd-control. He was meant for laying the hurt as fast as he can. Very bursty.

Offline oktokels

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2018, 10:39:08 PM »
Is it better to have the purity or the playability?

In my opinion, first i choose purity, to establish a base of the character that is canon to the comics or movies. Then if some of those attributes or powers doesnt work well with the game, then i tweak or delete them (or give new powers) to make the character more eficient in game.  In the case of hourman, i prefer to give him a 300 percenter special move to translate his miraclo pill move, because i think this move emulates better the low durability of the pill effect... but its really a matter of wheter you like it or not how a character is performing in game... this is what i really like about this game, the freedom to make this choises... freedom force !! lol  :P


Offline detourne_me

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2018, 11:20:05 PM »
Another option is to give him the Battery Powered, Metabolic Strength and Slow Starter attributes, so he starts with zero energy, but if you use a hero point he powers up. All of his high damage moves could cost energy, while the low damage moves are zero energy.

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2018, 10:06:57 PM »
Howdy guys, thanks for some great ideas!  I hadn't responded because I've been pondering my options, but I wanted to thank y'all for your thoughtful responses!  Stay tuned for some more tune-up posts!  I'm almost done writing missions, which means it will be time to work on HFs.
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2018, 04:38:10 AM »
Okay, I'm crossposting this in the my request thread.  I need to tweak my Superman/Lex Luthor setup.  My original build was Supes with Vulnerability and Accidental Change, triggered by Alien Mineral and Lex Luthor's Toxic attribute.  The Change would spawn a weakened, K-Poisoned version of Supes, who would revert back after a while.  I had that because Supes' invulnerability wasn't affected by Vulnerability, ironically.  This is a little clunky and poses some major problems for using him in EZScripted missions, as, if he gets called on by the script by name while poisoned, it could crash the mission or at least break it.  I'd like to streamline the build.  Anyone have any ideas?  Anyone know enough about attributes to tweak Vulnerability to remove INvulnerability?
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Offline spydermann93

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2018, 05:21:23 AM »
Okay, I'm crossposting this in the my request thread.  I need to tweak my Superman/Lex Luthor setup.  My original build was Supes with Vulnerability and Accidental Change, triggered by Alien Mineral and Lex Luthor's Toxic attribute.  The Change would spawn a weakened, K-Poisoned version of Supes, who would revert back after a while.  I had that because Supes' invulnerability wasn't affected by Vulnerability, ironically.  This is a little clunky and poses some major problems for using him in EZScripted missions, as, if he gets called on by the script by name while poisoned, it could crash the mission or at least break it.  I'd like to streamline the build.  Anyone have any ideas?  Anyone know enough about attributes to tweak Vulnerability to remove INvulnerability?

Vulnerability should remove Invulnerability no problem. The issue is Physical Resistance which doesn't get removed. I believe I sent you a "fix" a long time ago where Vulnerability did remove it (might've been for Marvel Adventures), but it wasn't perfect. It sometimes didn't re-add Physical Resistance which could be problematic.

What you could do is keep Superman's Invulnerable (05), but remove Physical Resistance and chance his typing to Concrete in FFEdit. Here are the benefits to it:

1) There won't be a permanent Physical Resistance on him preventing the 1 damage per second that Vulnerability causes.

2) It would make him resistant to all attacks except Energy, which seems to be what you use for Kryptonite weapons, if I remember correctly. He would still reduce the damage a bit with his invulnerability, but it won't be cut in half. Plus, he'll be highly resistant to Piercing. He is the Man of Steel, after all :P

3) He'll have a natural resistance to stuns which is always nice.

4) He'll still be vulnerable to Mystic attacks. He isn't weak to them like he would be with Stone, so it fits nicely with his actual powerset, i.e. not being weak to magic, just didn't have a resistance to it.

5) When he takes a knockout blow, he won't take unreduced damage. With Physical Resistance, say he had 20 health left and takes a 20 damage hit. Physical Resistance wouldn't work since he would be KO'd before the script proc'd, but with Concrete, he'll not only automatically reduce it by half, but the invulnerability will proc, too. So that 20 would become 5 damage.

6) If you're worried about Earth Control affecting him, I don't believe it actually will. I don't think Earth Control affects Concrete characters, but if it does, you can change his subtype to Flesh in his m25ai section.

I'll have to look at Lex again, but that's what I got for Superman's Vulnerability issue.

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2018, 04:17:31 PM »
Spyder my friend, haha, you know my work better than I do!  I had forgotten your fix, but now that you mention it, you're absolutely right.  Could you take a look at the code to make sure I've actually got it in place?  What file is that in?

Great suggestions man, and you make a good argument!  I'm hesitant to move away from my Physical Resistance model because the whole mod is balanced with that concept.  I'll consider that, but the balancing issues are probably prohibitive.  PR scales with all damage, while material type is static, so upper leveling scaling (and that's where Supes lives) would be an issue.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2018, 04:19:17 PM by BentonGrey »
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Offline spydermann93

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 02:10:14 AM »
Should be in ffx.py under "theworks", but I seem to have removed it in my code :doh:

I'm going to poke around and see if I still have the "fix" or not.

As for physical resistance balance, it is true that it blocks all damage types (aside from mental damage), but unless paired with grim resolve, it offers no stun resistance and there still is that issue of lethal damage not being blocked, which I've tried to fix, but I couldn't find a way to do it. With the fix, it is better, though. I tend to waffle on balancing decisions, so I tend to think either is fine, haha

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 06:04:43 AM »
Haha, yeah, well my design philosophy changed between DCUG and MA, which is why there are a LOT more guys with materials instead of just PR in MA.  BUT, I don't have the time or energy to rebuild the DCUG's balance from the ground up, so I'm sticking with its original design philosophy. 

You're certainly not wrong, my friend.  The PR system has significant disadvantages, not least of which is that you can't get around it with powers like Genetic Damage.  That's a major reason I changed things in MA.  Nonetheless, the advantages, especially at higher power levels, which are more prevalent in DC anyway, are enough to keep me mostly happy.

Unfortunately, it looks like I don't have your fix either in my ffx.py.  I'm searched the forums and looked where I thought it might be as well, but no luck.
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2018, 04:17:10 AM »
:EDIT: I've added the Mist's HF.

Howdy folks!  So, I'm starting a new round of character building.  In addition to others, I'm working on some JSA villains and Golden Age characters.  To start with, does anyone have any HFs they like for Killer Frost, Liberty Belle, the Mist, or Icicle I?

I'm trying to find an interesting and fun way to capture Liberty Belle's powers.  Basically, she had a friend who would ring the Liberty Bell, and she would get increased strength, speed, and stamina thanks to a fragment of it she carried with her.  These are relatively minor enhancements.  She wasn't throwing cars or anything.  What would be a fun way to capture that?  I thought about Metabolic, but that isn't quite right.  A 300 Percenter power would be too limited.  Ideas?

I've already started my process, and I have HFs for the Gambler and the Fiddler with which I'm relatively happy.  Check them out.  I'd love some feedback!

The Gambler
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

He's got a number of tricky attacks, regular shots with his gun, but also gas and smoke attacks and some acid-dipped cards.  Plus, he can handle himself in a brawl, as he's got a 3 contact melee attack as well.

The Fiddler
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Fiddler is all about mind control, but he also has some damaging attacks.  I really ran out of space on him, as he could use a few more powers.  He's got a nice area attack to throw back any speedsters that get in his face, and he can manipulate the environment with his fiddle, using disruption beams, and I've given him Puppet Master so he can create his own minions.  I'm torn on whether to use energy or crushing for his musical attacks.  Normally, I use crushing for sonic attacks, but his are MAGICAL sonic attacks.  Ideas?  I'm also debating increasing his direct power range.

The Mist:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I spent, no kidding, an hour editing keys for this guy, only to realize that the perfect keys already existed...male_swimming.  D'oh!  Now he floats around all mist-like and seems pretty fitting.  I've got him a range of melee attacks, and a medium area mind control power.  He can also become invisible, and I will add a phasing power.  What else should he be able to do?  Anything?  I've given him a very high PD that will let most attacks pass through him, but I like to leave some type of weakness in such a power.  Any ideas for what would be fitting?
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 09:11:53 PM by BentonGrey »
God Bless
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2019, 04:35:11 AM »
Howdy guys, I'm still working on new characters and still looking for help!  I've mostly closed the books on the previous guys I've listed, as I've added them to the DCUG, but I am still messing around with Liberty Belle, lacking a really clear idea of how to portray her powers in an interesting way.  I you've got any insight into any of these guys, feel free to chip in!

On new notes, I'm looking for inspiration for the Freedom Fighters, but ESPECIALLY Uncle Sam.  I've got some half-baked notions about giving him Team Player or something, trying to find some way to emulate his interesting power set, but I don't have anything good yet.

Also, does anyone have an HF for Trigon, Raven's bad dad?
God Bless
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Offline oktokels

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2019, 07:47:39 PM »
Also, does anyone have an HF for Trigon, Raven's bad dad?
This is what i got
------------------------------------------
                  TRIGON
------------------------------------------
weight: 520 lbs + density control
------------------------------------------
str: 10
spd: 5
agl: 6
end: 10
enr: 10
-------------------------------------------
Attributes:
1) Level Headed+Unbeliever+Disciplined
2) Growth (combo)
3) Environment control (full)
4) Fire control
5) Presence
6) Super TK
7) Summoner 4 (demons)
8) Coordinator
9) Field Commander
-------------------------------------------
Powers:
1) Melee: Very High dmg, Extreme knock back, Single Target, very fast speed.
2) Melee 2: Very High dmg, low energy, extreme kb, 180 radius, very fast
3) Direct: Hypnosis, extreme dmg, low energy, long range
4) Special, Self Heal, Extreme, low energy
5) Beam, Mental Damage, Extreme dmg, medium energy, long range, very fast speed, medium accuracy
6) Direct, alteration, extreme dmg, low energy, long range
7) Direct, Hex, extreme dmg, long range,
8) Special, Teleport, extreme, no energy
9) Direct, energize others, extreme, low energy, long range.
10) Projectile, Heat, extreme dmg, low energy, small area, med accuracy, fast speed.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You could swap the direct hex for an area attack; crushing, mental or heat goes well

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2019, 04:53:36 AM »
Thanks Ok!  I missed that response, but I really appreciate your giving me your take!  That will definitely be helpful.

So, I'm still looking for ideas for the Freedom Fighters, but I'm also starting on the Legion of Superheroes.  I'll be adding HFs here and looking for feedback and suggestions.

Blok:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As I understand it, Blok is a big bruiser and I gave him a variety of melee attacks and a grapple.  Not too much to him.

Bouncing Boy:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
BB is all about agility and keeping foes off balance, so he does a lot of KB, as you might imagine.  I've given him str 4 mostly so he can do better KB.  I wish there was an attribute that would do that.  He's rubber material type, of course, and has some extra resistances to cover his resiliency.  Maybe he should have Heroic or some type of rally ability?

Brainiac 5:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Brainy I see as a utility player, but with the chops to stand up in melee thanks to his shield.  He's got a number of status effect powers and can buff his allies, though they might not appreciate it if his inventions backfire!  I feel like I've got him okay, but I'd welcome any suggestions!
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2019, 04:53:56 AM »
Too big for one post-

Chemical King:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I had a lot of trouble with him, but I think I'm actually pretty pleased with the result.  I got creative with his powers and gave him a lot of options that make sense.  Accelerate Reactions, Ignition / glorious love child of Fabio and Madonna Reactions: Power Null / Accelerate Cellular Decay: Acid Burn / Increase Oxidation: simple medium fire beam / Slow Metabolism: Power Null with high stun, and he can Increase Metabolism on himself for a 300 percenter, since he can apparently supercharge his own system.  I've also given him metabolic, though I'm not sure about that.  Might be a bit much.  What do y'all think?

Dawnstar:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
She seems pretty straightforward, a flyer who can track.  I gave her the basic set of melee and flying attacks, plus some wing storm stuff.

That's the bunch that I've mostly got settled, still working on a ton of others.  I'm trying to find some more attributes for Cosmic Boy, who currently has Flier, Magnetic, and Field Commander.  Any ideas? 

So, give me some feedback, guys!
God Bless
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Offline Panther_Gunn

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2019, 04:14:16 PM »
I'll see if I can fire up my FF computer a little later to look through what I've got.  One thing I do know is that my Chemical King hero file is rather ...... sparse.  Ideas for him & ME Lad always eluded me, and for CK I always meant to look into what kind of chemical reaction effects I could come up with.  Looks like you may have solved my problem for me.  ;)

I can send you all of the hf's for the Legion I have, if you want.  All FF1, though.
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2019, 09:11:13 PM »
Yeah man, send me what you've got!  I can use all the inspiration I can get.

Defintiely.  CK was a challenge.  Even his power descriptions don't have much information or many examples.  Glad I could help!  :)  I'm not looking forward to getting to Matter Eater Lad.
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Offline Panther_Gunn

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2019, 10:41:20 PM »
Ok, here's my input on what you've posted -

Blok:  Our stats are pretty close.  I've got his strength at 9 & End at 8.  Instead of Grim Resolve, Tough Guy, and Invuln, I went with Solid Skeleton & Strange Visitor, along with a PD for energy (50%).  Just different ways to do the same thing.  Other than that, you just have a wider variety of attacks.

Bouncing Boy:  I'm not sure I ever got Chuck to work the way I wanted.  I kept his Speed at 2, and his Agl & End 1 lower than yours.  Rubber is already highly resistant to Crushing, so I felt Solid Skeleton was overkill (though I think it does still increase the % of resistance).  Armored ups piercing resistance, but I felt he should know that it's coming to adjust to it, and not be passive.  Not sure if his power has him being resistant to Energy.  I gave him Density Control for the KB resistance, and Living Laser, hoping to simulate a bouncing attack on multiple targets - didn't work.  I think I'll definitely want to see how yours works.

Brainy:  Again, our stats are close.  I made him 1 click weaker (he's not the best at hand-to-hand), and I'm sure you bumped up his energy (5<8) to fuel all of the extra powers you gave him.  Again, I prefer his force field to not be a passive ability.  I wouldn't expect him to have quite so many melee attacks (not counting the taser).  What's the justification for the teleport?  One thing I've got that you don't is a force field repel beam (low crushing, high KB).

CK:  Not sure I'd use Metabolic, again as it implies an all the time, passive 300%-er.  I'll go with Neutralize, though, and possibly Invertebrate, or swap them both for Iron Guts.  For Melee, I think I gave any of them a slightly better punch (if they didn't have enhanced/super strength or something) if they had graduated from the Legion Academy, and named it Legion Punch.  PD - on the passive use of powers, I might accept this one if it's down to occasional, maybe add radiation (unless this PD is being used to augment the Attributes, then nix Rad & Acid); remind me, does PD Deflect give the possibility to hit someone nearby?  Does Absorb increase the defender's Energy?  For the 300%-er, was there a classic story with him doing this?  I didn't have all of his appearances back in the day, and haven't been able to read them digitally yet.

Cosmic Boy:  I gave Rokk Heat Sensitive, as it was shown more than once that high heat can weaken magnetism.  I also gave him Strange Visitor, but I can't tell you why at the moment.  Maybe something like Level Headed?  He's always been pretty cool under fire.

Edit:  the problem with coming up with powers for CK is overlapping things with Element Lad.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2019, 10:44:35 PM by Panther_Gunn »
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2019, 04:36:36 AM »
PG, thanks a ton for the feedback!  This is both helpful and encouraging!

First, responses and commentary, then more HFs.

Blok: I've never read a single story with him.  Is he really that strong, like Superman level?  Sounds like, otherwise, we're pretty close.  I'll probably switch to Tough Guy.

Bouncing Boy: He's a very tough one, isn't he?  Some interesting ideas.  I'm sorry that you didn't find a brilliant way to handle him that I could steal, ha, because I don't think I'm going to crack this one.  I'll need to do some experimenting with him before I decide whether your more conservative numbers might be a better fit than mine.

Brainy: Yeah, the energy might be overkill, but IF I give him a passive energy shield, he'll need that for fuel.  He'll also need some experimentation.  I'm torn on how to handle his shield, but I do like to give characters like him passive shields to aid their survivability.  If I give him the FF1 AD, that may change things.  In the few stories I've read, he seems to always have that shield active in combat...hmm...Anyway, I do probably have too much melee power for him, but it makes sense to me that a genius would take some darn karate lessons.  ;)  The teleport, ha!  It was in one of the HFs I looked at (Tommy's?) and I added it because it seemed like something he might have.  Not a good fit?  I like the idea of the FF beam.  I'll use that.  Thanks!

CK: Yeah, I felt pretty sketchy about Metabolic.  I think you're probably right there.  I think I forgot to tweak the PD.  I'll need to rethink that one.  Absorb does increase energy.  The 300% came from Comic Vine's article about him:
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/chemical-king/4005-21509/
Re-reading it, I see I need to raise the energy cost.

Cosmic Boy: Good ideas!

Okay, here are some new ones:

Dream Girl
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I guess I'm reasonably happy with her.  Basically, she's all about avoiding damage.  She's hard to hit and can surprise foes with some melee skill.

Element Lad:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EL, on the other hand, definitely needs some work.  I like his attributes reasonably well, and I think Anti-War Zone is a fitting addition for him.  He's got a Disrupt attack, of course, an area acid burn, a cage-creating or crystal creating swap, a Density Max (like he transmuted someone's clothes to lead or something), and a power-null (like he transmuted guns to smoke).  Maybe I can add a freezing power?  Any other suggestions?
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2019, 04:42:55 AM »
Emerald Empress:
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I'm reasonably happy with EE.  She's got some beam attacks and a hypno beam, as well as an energy shield which isn't printing out for some reason (crashing EZHero).  I'll probably turn that into either an FF1 AD or an attribute Energy Shield.  One of the HFs I referenced had her with TK and a direct drain power.  I'm not sure if those fit or not.  Thoughts?

Ferro Lad:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'd like more for Ferro, but I'm limited by keys and the character himself.  Is he normally slower and less agile in his metal form?  As is, he's got the standard BG slate of melee powers, more or less, a stunning one, a power one, an area one, and a combo one.

Karate Kid:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm pretty happy with KK.  He's got my more or less standard martial artist build, though I'm limited by keys.  All of his strikes are very fast, and he's got a combo, an upward KB punch, a 360 attack, and a 180 attack.  My idea for him is that he might serve as crowd control, and his 300% gives him the ability to hurt heavies.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 04:50:04 AM by BentonGrey »
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2019, 04:55:43 AM »
Last but not least, here's Lightning Lad:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I like his build okay, but I feel like he could go with one more power.  He's got a medium, no cost beam, a very high, medium cost beam with high KB, and some chain lightning.  I've also got a 7 contact projectile that is a function of the mesh.  I'd prefer like, 3-5.  I tried to make the best of it, though.  He's also got a 'space clearing' melee attack and a more space clearing area attack.  Does his brother, Lightning Lord, essentially have the same powers?  I'm probably just going to copy his HF in that case.

Now, there are a couple more that I worked on that still need yet more work.  I welcome any ideas on how to make Invisible Kid interesting or useful.

Also, about Mano, I've seen HFs that give him ranged attacks, and some sources online say he can fire energy beams, but I've never seen that.  What do y'all think, and how do you make his HF interesting instead of just one crazy power?
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 03:38:26 AM by BentonGrey »
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Offline daglob

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2019, 05:03:32 AM »
I've always believed that Lightning Lord was at least Lighting Lad's equal, with Lighting Lad being a better combatant and Lightning Lord willing to overpower his attacks and "go for the jugular". This would make him heck in a fight, but he wouldn't be able to keep it up for long at a time. He would also go off "half cocked", and probably have Berserk as a disadvantage.

Offline Panther_Gunn

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2019, 07:00:18 AM »
Some quick input, as I'll not be able to dig deep into these for a couple days.

CK:  His Who's Who write-up is very brief, pretty much the first paragraph in the CV Silver Age write up section.  I don't know how much of a retcon the first part of his origin is on the CV page, so I also don't know when he was shown upping his speed & strength, but I would agree it would be pretty draining on him.

Blok's strength, I might have taken that from a write-up of the old DC Heroes RPG, and I'm pretty sure it was from an official product, not something someone extropolated (e.g.: Ben Reilly).  My hf strength scale has Superman at the top @ 10, and I base most of my stuff on Pre-Crisis stats.  I don't think it will unbalance anything if you don't have him quite so high, but I'm pretty sure he is pretty darn strong.  (and I always felt he was a better, more natural addition to the Legion than Tellus or Quislet)

Brainy:  I don't recall him using anything that would simulate a teleport power, definitely not on a regular basis.

Dreamy:  I think she's another Academy graduate, and she is definitely skilled in hand-to-hand combat if it comes to it, she just doesn't like getting to that point (more time getting rid of calluses).  She's also the only one who's had the concentration, and spent the time, to get a little more out of the element the flight rings are made of.  In extremis (coincidentally the same story she had to roundhouse someone), she was able to use the ring to cause some metal decking in front of her to lift up as an impromptu shield.  Since her precog powers mostly (only?) work when she's sleeping, giving her any kind of active precog powers is a bit of a stretch, but I think needed to really make even passably playable.

Element Lad:  I really liked him, so take a close look at his hf I sent.  I think he'd more likely drop an intertron dome over someone rather than do something that equates to a Density Max attack (and that's Star Boy's gig).

Empress:  Up her strength.  She's been shown to have vastly higher strength than normal folks (probably augmented by TK, like Conner Kent), including (but not limited to) breaking Sun Boy's jaw with just her gripping strength without any real exertion.  I doubt there's a way to work it in, even with scripting, but if the Eye can be separated from her (or tricked into believing she's not there), it *will* go berserk & just start lashing out.

Ferro:  I don't think he slows down at all when he's changed, he's just really strong & nearly invulnerable (might be able to survive the vacuum of space).  If you could figure out a way to have him switch between his normal skin & his iron one, that would be a nice touch.

Karate Kid:  Remember, Val has mastered *every* form of martial arts in the known galaxy, enabling him to chop his way through a spaceship bulkhead door and physically fight Superboy to a standstill (at least for a limited time).  Think about throws, pressure points, using an opponents strength against them, as well as just karate chops.

Lightning Lad:  He's got some leadership skills (but not as much as Rokk), and can be a bit of a hot-head (but not as bad as Sun Boy), but he will knuckle down & get the job done.  His brother Mekt, on the other hand, tries very hard to be in control, but he can (and will) lash out extremely violently if pushed too hard.  Mekt might have more raw power than Garth, but he's more likely to blow his wad in a tantrum or showing off, as daglob pointed out.  People from their planet are normally born twins, but Mekt wasn't, so he lacked a sense of connection that everyone else had, which has probably left him a bit unstable.

One bonus to using the Time Trapper is being able to include old versions of the characters, in their old costumes, or even using the old flight belts, before Mon-El "introduced" the new element for the flight rings.
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Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2019, 03:19:52 AM »
PG, once again, this is tons of great stuff!  I've already made some adjustments (dropped Brainy's teleport for example), and will continue to consider others.  Thanks man, you're a huge help!  I'll give a more detailed response later, but a quick question:

So, your HF for EL has a flamethrower attack, with him presumably transmuting oxygen to something highly reactive or something.  That makes sense, but would you, as an EL fan, prefer/feel it would be appropriate if A) this was a stronger attack (High) that cost energy, or B) was his base attack power, (Medium) and free?  Essentially, I try to give everyone a free power.  Do you think it should be this one or another?

A throw for KK seems like an excellent idea!

Also, I wasn't going to bother giving Ferro Lad two forms, but you've made me change my mind.  That kind of detail is really exactly what the DCUG is all about.  :D

Another one: Is there any way for Matter Eater Lad to 'consume' objects for energy?  I can't think of a way to do that, even with FFX.
:EDIT: Okay, I've partially cracked this.  Metal Eater will passively leach HP from metal in the neighborhood, and I can set the benefit to be energy, which will in turn fun his Metabolic Strength, but can anyone think of any way to do this ACTIVELY?
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 04:53:43 AM by BentonGrey »
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Offline Cyber Burn

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2019, 03:14:16 PM »
Another one: Is there any way for Matter Eater Lad to 'consume' objects for energy?  I can't think of a way to do that, even with FFX.
:EDIT: Okay, I've partially cracked this.  Metal Eater will passively leach HP from metal in the neighborhood, and I can set the benefit to be energy, which will in turn fun his Metabolic Strength, but can anyone think of any way to do this ACTIVELY?

What about a Direct Attack using Energy Leach? Is there any kind of combo that could be done using that?

Online BentonGrey

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Re: DCUG Tuneup
« Reply #29 on: June 06, 2019, 04:15:44 AM »
Well, that could be part of something, but what we really need is some way to do the same to objects instead of characters.  I was just looking through FFX and came across Assimilator, which lets you do that...but you get new powers instead of energy or health.  Hmm...

I've gotten to Nemesis Kid, and sheesh!  The Legion is just FULL of power problems, isn't it?  How in the world can I properly represent the guy who has the power of plot?  The HF I have gives him Mutator, which would sort-of-kind-of work, except that it is random as opposed to responsive.  I suppose the only way to do this properly is to come up with a couple of different power packages that provide counters to your standard powersets and then set his AI to switch to them based on what enemies he's facing.  Anyone have any better ideas (which might prevent me from having to do all that work :P )?

Anyway, I've come up with what I think are solid versions of ME and Mano.  See what y'all think.

Mano:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So, I'm actually pretty pleased with him.  I dug up some of his appearances and saw some different uses of his powers that made him more interesting and adaptable.  So, apparently he can control how much damage his hand does, so I figured he might do that to accomplish different effects.  He's got a solid, heat damaging free attack, as well as a low cost extreme attack for his main power, but he can also create shockwaves that hit ground targets, 'heat' the air to create a flamethrower effect, and disintegrate the ground in an area attack.  I'm particularly pleased with his PD, which uses a really quick melee anim and a small FX to have him 'disintegrate' incoming projectiles.  This gives him some different options in combat and should make him more interesting, while also being accurate.  With the exception of the heat beam, everything he's got comes from the comics I read.  In terms of attributes, I gave him Combat Skill to reflect the disconnect between his damage potential and his strength.  I'm not 100% on the Body Armor.  I might go with something else to reflect his toughness.  It will take some testing.

Matter Eater Lad:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm less satisfied with ME, but I think I've still created a pretty decent interpretation of him.  His Metal Eater will feed his Metabolic Strength, which won't amount to much unless he has objects feeding him.  I am considering giving him Energy Tanks to increase the importance of that.  He's got a powerful melee ability to reflect his ability to bite through anything, and he's got a hold, plus the Wrestler attribute, so he can bite on and hold an enemy, which I thought was fun.  I've also given him a Power Null under the auspice of 'Eating Weapons.'  I think this build makes him a surprisingly effective character.

So, what do y'all think?

I'm currently working on Mordru, trying to figure out just how powerful he should be.  Any suggestions are welcome!
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