Topic: Shape the DCUG: JLA Roster

[BentonGrey]

Howdy guys!  I've been thinking about how to add in new League members in my JLA campaign in the DCUG, and I'd like to hear the community's thoughts.  My original plan, way back when, was to introduce at least the Satellite Era members immediately after the first arc, one after another, with a series of tailored missions highlighting their recruitment.  If we lived a perfect world, that would probably still be my preference, but, as they always do, my stories grew and rather got away from me.  I ended up doing my JSA arc immediately after the formation of the League, which didn't provide many opportunities for new characters.

I decided to insert new missions between those two arcs, which gives me a bit more leeway.  I've completed Green Arrow's intro to the League, but what I had initially seen as one or two missions has turned into six (yeah, I know!).  My projects usually go this way, and stories have a tendency to take on a life of their own.  Anyway, the upshot of this is that I've realized that, in the time I have before I want to get this remastered version of the mod released and with the very limited spare time I have these days, I just couldn't manage to get many new heroes at all introduced this way, especially if I'm going to make some major headway on the Aquaman campaign, like I planned.  What's more, I don't have good stories to tell for all of the characters.

After a very interesting conversation with Kk, I've decided to revisit my plans, and as I see it, there are four ways of doing this.  Please vote for which you'd prefer and share your thoughts in the thread.  Thanks guys!

Order of New Members:

• Green Arrow
• Atom
• Hawkman/Hawkgirl (No leaving poor Shiera out in the cold in the DCUG!)
• Black Canary
• Elongated Man
• Red Tornado (I do have a story arc for him)
• Zatanna
• Firestorm

After them, I'll throw the gates wide and add in a lot of different characters, including many of those from later incarnations of the League, like JLI, and basically take the JLU route and include most heroes not already affiliated elsewhere.

[spydermann93]

I think the way the base game did it was super well done. You start off with a few (or one) of the League members and as the story progresses, you find others in that mission. Say, for example, Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman go and check out some trouble downtown. Some alien from this weird planet of Thanagar is causing trouble and you have to go handle it. While on the mission, you meet up with Hawkman and Hawkgirl and they team up with you to handle the baddies. They can then be used on your team for your next mission. Simple as that.

Then, if you want, you could make a little side campaign for them detailing why they were there and create a sort of playable backstory with them. I know that you already have some missions like that for the two, but it's just an example.

That way, you can introduce characters in a way that makes sense, give players some time to get the feel of the character, and then provide backstories for these characters later on down the road. These missions won't be necessary, but they will definitely enhance the personality of these new characters should a player decide to look further into them.

I think that would be a good middle-ground for adding new characters during the campaign without getting too convoluted. You don't need 5+ missions about one character interrupting the main story. But those missions could be developed/played later on down the road.

[BentonGrey]

Thanks for the feedback, Spyder!  Essentially, that's what already happens in the original JLA campaign.  You have a mission with each of the Big 7 individually, then they all team up and save the day.

I had considered doing some of the JLA stuff in the individual campaigns for some of the characters, like Hawkman and the Atom, so that is an idea. 

Limitations at the moment are 1) that I have a lot of stories to tell and limited time and 2) that I don't want to get into stuff that will require significant additions to the DCUG in terms of art or characters because I've got other priorities at the moment (and it's already super gigantic, plus I'm already planning some significant additions).

[Deaths Jester]

Okay, I don't know DC well so I'm going to avoid that part of it. What I will say is that you need to work on plotting a bit, BG. Something like GA's intro to the JLA would've been, what - two comic issues, at best? Going by that, then you should have at most three missions - with only one and a half being GA only mission - for that plot (I'd range more for two - one Ga only the second as a full JLA). With six for his intro you're pushing close to a four issue major event on par with...I don't know...Identity Crisis, maybe? Something that long needs extra subplots with more characters interwoven into it that either get tied up at the end of that arc or lead into the next arc. If you stick with just the one plot and one character thing, you force the player to slog thru six missions without many rewards which could easily turn the player/reader away. You wouldn't want to read a six issue run where all you get is GA running around by himself - not interacting with other heroes - trying to save the JLA, would you? No, you want to see that plus him interacting with people and a subplot concerning Hawkman and Hawkgirl doing something that somehow intersects with GA's mission or leads into something bigger post GA's arc. For even more interest you toss in a subplot the has the Atom involved too.

It's about plotting and storytelling. And remebering that just cause something is cool, if it doesn't push the story you don't need it.

Okay...I'm done now...hope it helps...doubtful but eh...

[BentonGrey]

Thanks for the feedback, DJ!  I appreciate you taking the time to provide such a thoughtful response, but I think my description gave you something of the wrong impression.  The six new interjected missions include three different storylines, and GA's weaves in and out of them as they weave in and out of each other.  You only play as GA alone for part of one mission and the the first section of a second.  Plus, some FF missions are more like part of a comic rather than a whole issue (especially thinking of older books, which had more story than a whole year of a modern comic! ).  For a more detailed outline of those missions which will hopefully make things a bit more clear than I did initially, check this out:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

• Shaggy Man: The creature rampages in Star City, the League is aided by GA, who is just an ally. (Seeds planted for Cadmus)
• Key 1: League encounters The Key, he bounces around the map causing trouble and showing off, they can't catch up to him. (No GA)
• Injustice 1: Start with GA on patrol, he is shortly joined by Batman and GL, who talk about recruiting him, but he is reticent. They stop a heist, then are ambushed by Luthor's newly formed Injustice Gang, and the heroes must summon backup.
• Key 2: The Key zaps the League in Watchtower, sending them into tailored pocket dimensions. GA must free them one at a time.  You play as him by himself at first but add Leaguers at each of four stops.
• Key 3: Leaguers free their last three members.
• Key 4: Combined League has showdown with the Key and must stop him from opening a gateway to the highest dimension and ascending the throne of the universe.
• Injustice 2: Freed, the League hunts down Luthor, but who is ambushing whom?

So, I think you'll see that there is more going on there than just GA running around for an extended period of time.  His intro is actually in two and a half missions, but it's woven through six, which have their own subplots, some of which keep going. 

I'm toying with adding some other arcs (Royal Flush, Despero, Dr. Destiny, Manhunters) before the JSA one (which, involving time travel, sort of locks out new JLA heroes) and adding some character arcs there, but I created all of the JSA stuff for use with the Big Seven, so I don't want to give myself too much more work in revising....but there are a lot of possibilities.  Realistically, I just don't have time to do too many more arcs AND get the work done on the other campaigns that I want.

[Deaths Jester]

Well, in both the Shaggy Man and Injustice Gang's missions you've got ample potential to intro new characters. GA wouldn't be the only hero that responds to Star City being attacked. And who says GL, Bats, and GA calls in the JLA for backup? Maybe GA knows someone else that is closer and unaffiliated...or perhaps other hero plots cross the main one at those points for some reason.

To be honest, I think the DCUG needs to be split into seperate mods instead of one giant mod. One just for JLA, one for JSA, ect. You could include whatever characters/missions you need/want and tell the massive story like they were tie-ins to each comic series without worrying about size. Think of them as one massive event played across seperate comic series. Just my useless thought though.

[BentonGrey]

Haha, well, I guess it's been a while since I released the DCUG, but I didn't realize folks had forgotten its premise.     I suppose it's all so familiar to me that I forget that it's pretty different from the standard model.

The DCUG IS split into separate campaigns, all in one mod, like I did for Marvel Adventures.  There are campaigns for Batman, Hawkman/Hawkgirl, the Atom, JLA/JSA (though I've been toying with a new, separate JSA campaign involving the Spear of Destiny), Aquaman, and an anthology series, as well as the beginnings of a Green Arrow campaign that I may or may not do anything with.  I'll probably add something else if I have the time, too.

All of these campaigns can now be accessed with different .exes that copy and replace the campdef file to load the individual campaigns (thanks to Alex's innovation). 

The JLA campaign isn't the only game in town.  It wasn't even, until I started working on it again, the longest (Batman was), but it's just the one I happen to be working on at the moment. 

Plus, and this was always key, the DCUG was always intended as a springboard for other people to tell their own stories.  I hope that folks will create some of their own adventures in the sandbox I've created.

[Deaths Jester]

<- never was one to play mods much

[BentonGrey]

Yeah, I need to not assume that folks are as familiar with the work of several years of my life as I am! 

[UnkoMan]

From reading JLA I would think... some characters, like GA, would be introduced as a special story mission, or somebody like Atom would be called in to help with a specific task...
But then other times they would change everything up, and do a whole new team. So big chunks, in addition to character storylines. That would be my vote.

Maybe all the JLA are in another universe or something (except MM??) and so a new team has to form to avert a crisis in their absence. But that's just my two cents.
Go nuts.

[BentonGrey]

Thanks Unko, and thanks again for everyone who shared thoughts and voted!  This has been quite helpful and enabled me to figure out what I want to do. 

I'm going to split the difference, adding characters to the JLA campaign in chunks, with some special missions, but then do OTHER intro missions in individual character campaigns.  Thus, Hawkman and the Atom will get their intro missions in their own campaigns.  That gives me more flexibility for storytelling.  I hope that everyone will enjoy this compromise. 

[Deaths Jester]

Great...that means he'll probably be bothering me for a skin or five in three...two...

[BentonGrey]

...One: So, DJ, how about those skins...