Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Started by Tomato, September 21, 2019, 01:32:01 AM

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Panther_Gunn

I'm recording it to watch later, but missed last night's episodes.  Any idea how crucial they are to the overall storyline?
The Best There Is At What I Do......when I have the time.

catwhowalksbyhimself

If you are in the US, you can watch it from the CW website with some anoying ads.  And the Batwoman one is absolutely vital.  Can't skip any of the main Crisis episodes.

the Black Lightning episode is just a tie in and can be safely ignored.

Also try to avoid watching the CW until you've caught up.  They are spamming the channel with ads for Part 4 which spoil some things.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

GhostMachine

In the U.S., you'll probably be able to watch it on On Demand.

I watched all 3 episodes so far in a row last night/early this morning. My thoughts (ie, don't read if you haven't watched yet!):

Spoiler
The cameos at the start of episode 1 were pretty fun. But Oliver dying at the end of episode one, even if he did save over a billion people? Wow.

The fight between Supermen was okay, but the fight with Earth-38 Clark and the villain turned into an evil version during the last crossover was better done, as was the Clark-Kara fight. Lets have no more Superman vs. Superman fights, okay?

Called it sort of on Earth 90 Flash dying instead of Earth 1.

I never really watched Smallville much, so Tom Welling and Erica Durance showing up didn't mean much. Interesting that he gave up his powers, though.

Whoever designed Anti-Monitor's look was overpaid.

Huntress' cameo in episode 3, just to see her die, was a why even bother? moment.

I liked the way they used Lucifer, and of course his Earth had to be 666. But I missed the preview of episode 4, because my DVR stopped recording at the very start of it. Just saw Oliver alive (in a suit?) for a split-second. Is Corrigan bringing him back to life in a different way, or is Oliver taking his place as the Spectre? (And I'm going to be disappointed if we don't see a Spectre in-costume rather than just a guy with green glowing eyes.)

Cool seeing Black Lightning finally being involved in a crossover.


Tomato

#33
So I want to point something out since I think it might be overlooked in all the big splashy ____ dies,  ____ meets ____, etc.

Spoiler
There has been a lot, and I mean a LOT of focus on parents and their children, and I can't help but think it's being laid out for some sort of narrative reason. And yes, you can make the case that Fatherhood is an important part of Oliver's, Barry's and Jefferson's stories before now, but even characters that don't usually have family have been mentioning them in passing... Ryan Choi, the Monitor, all three Supermen (even KC Superman mentions his presumably dead son in passing). Parenthood, specifically Fatherhood, has been running through a LOT of this story, and I feel it might be central to the narrative for reasons we haven't seen yet.

Edit: quick correction, the son of the Brandon Routh Superman, James, was actually alive as of meeting his father, just not "at the planet" per the Batwoman showrunner.

CoolTieGuy

#34
The Crisis has certainly been interesting so far. Some random thoughts.

Part One:
Spoiler
The Burt Ward cameo was great at the beginning.

A large cast must be hard to write for, but finding baby Jonathan still seemed like a pretty unnecessary side-quest, more designed to keep members of the large cast busy.

I'm not sure what to think of this version of Brainiac 5. He was really cool in the comics, but this version fluctuates between being able to wrestle Amazo and being constantly show up by Toyman's son/being helpless against snare arrows.

The shadow wraiths were odd as combatants. Sure, they were scary, but literally anything seemed to kill them in one hit, with an arrow being just as effective as Kryptonian powers. I have no idea how an "upgraded" batarang kills the wraiths better than the base model aside from the weapon returning to the thrower instead of dissolving (then again, running out of weapons was a big problem for Oliver, so maybe it was useful after all).

Oliver's sacrifice... yeah, he saved a billion people, but at the end of the day, he went down in episode one of the Crisis fighting opponents who are weak against arrows, dying only because he runs out of arrows. It felt like more of a comic strip or parody than anything else. It looks like the writers have more plans for him in Crisis, though, so we'll see. Also, 3 billion extra people, likely most of them being dopplegangers, should have some interesting effects on Earth-1

Part Two:
Spoiler
I was never terribly invested in Smallville, so it's difficult to say much about Earth-167 Clark returning. On one hand, it was a nice ending for the Superman who was arguably the most like a normal person. Alternatively, after 10 seasons of building up to being Superman vaguely "someday," it does seem to spoil things a bit to say that he spends so long to become Superman only to give it up shortly afterwards. Either way, I don't care tremendously, but I would understand fans who like it as well as those who felt like it was done poorly.

The Kevin Conroy cameo was rather disappointing. Sure, the studio had strict rules to follow and likely couldn't have a full Batman be part of the adventure. Still, there could have been a decent version of Bruce Wayne, rather than an odd mismatch of Kingdom Come, Dark Knight Returns, and murderhobo. It could be argued that this version is in some ways cooler, but when a character gets hit once and then falls over and accidentally electrocutes themselves, cool is kind of out of the question. Seriously, this death would only bother me more if a 1966 Batman "ZAP!" had appeared in big letters over the undignified, barbecued Bruce.

Lex Luthor stealing the book to kill all Supermen is very satisfying comic-like. I'm not sure about Jon Cryer's portrayal compared to people like Sherman Howard and Michael Rosenbaum, but I'll give him a chance.

Kingdom Come Superman looks amazing. The timeline is wibbly-wobbly, though, because I thought that Superman Returns was an alternate Superman 3, but Superman mentions both his son (from Superman Returns) and fighting himself (from Superman 3). Add that to it also being the Kingdom Come universe and it feels odd. Still, I absolutely loved the original KC miniseries, so it was still nice to see.

Also, yikes. Hoechlin's Superman seems to get no respect. He loses to Supergirl, who had about 15 years less experience as a hero (just an estimate, unless the show gives a more exact time span), he also loses to Brandon Routh's Superman, who is way older than him. I'm not sure how much experience helps or old age hinders in Kryptonian-level fights, but Hoechiln just loses the fight whichever side of the spectrum he happens to be on. It seems like the poor guy is just there to show how impressive other people are instead of doing much of anything cool himself.

Bringing Oliver back is another side-quest that seems to be just an excuse to make more of the large cast seem useful. With a time-travelling speedster, using magic to find an Earth with a functioning lazarus pit seems unnecessary, as Oliver could brought back in time on Earth-1 and revived in a pit there. Still, it's good to see that the writers aren't done with the character so early in Crisis.

Part Three:
Spoiler
Cisco getting his Vibe powers back was nice. It seemed profoundly unwise for him to deliberately give them up in the previous season. As a bonus, the writers manage both to make it comedic and to not waste too much time undoing a past writing mistake.

I'm not sure if anyone was actually surprised by Earth-90 Flash dying instead of Earth-1 Flash. I guessed it would happen when he first appeared in Elseworlds last year and it went rather predictably. Still, given how many heroes from old series simply die (Burt Ward, Huntress), die embarassingly (Kevin Conroy), or are overall unhelpful (pretty much every other guest star besides Black Lightning and Brandon Routh's Superman), I am happy that John Wesley Shipp's Flash got to do something awesome.

Ryan Choi is a character who I'm not very familiar with, but seems to be done well. I'm curious to see if Ray Palmer will meet a horrible fate to pave the way for Ryan becoming the Atom.

Oliver with the Spectre's power could be epic, or could just mean he doesn't seem much like Green Arrow in the last two episodes. I'll reserve judgement until later on this one.

Lots of time was dedicated to Supergirl debating whether or not to use the book of destiny to bring back Earth-38 and Batwoman being ready to use the kryptonite to stop her. Considering how little time there is total in this crossover for such a large cast to have moments to shine, it felt like a waste. After several scenes of angst and drama, they just decide: "nah, let's just forget about this whole thing and go try to do something about this crisis." I'm certainly not saying that Supergirl should have used the book, but the writers shouldn't have devoted that much effort to something that wouldn't pan out into anything. It came across as yet another odd side-quest to keep characters busy.

I'm really questioning the Monitor's power level here. If someone is taken down by a trick arrow, then they probably shouldn't be strong enough to match energy blasts with someone who just took down Superman with one blow. Maybe I'm just a nit-picking fanboy, but it appears to have very little sense of scale.

Every Earth being destroyed takes a bit of the drama away. I really wasn't sure if they were going to have to make a final stand to protect the last seven Earths, or even just one last Earth. Destroying all of them just leaves the more predictable "punch the bad guy and use science talk to somehow make his scheme reverse." Also, it makes me wonder if Green Arrow or Earth-90 Flash actually accomplished anything with their respective sacrifices. On the plus side, the writers won't have to address how the huge population surge and tons of dopplegangers changes everyday life on Earth-1.

Luthor substituting himself for Kingdom Come Superman was a twist I didn't see coming. Still, KC Supes was one of the most interesting things about this crossover, so I'm not overjoyed that he's unlikely appear for long in the next two episodes.

Hopes for the last two parts:
Spoiler
8 seasons of Arrow have been nice, and lots of comic book stuff has been worked in (I still smile when I think of the boxing glove arrow in season 2). I've been hoping for years that Oliver would wear the iconic Green Arrow hat at some point, and an alternate earth GA could be a good way to write in in. If it included a joke and another impractical arrow I sure wouldn't complain.

Jay Garrick doing pretty much anything with some JSA members could be fun. Stargirl is rumored to be making an appearance, and her show is supposed to feature some JSA members, which could allow a JSA closer to the comics than the one used in Legends season 2.

Batwoman recognizing Earth-99 Bruce could mean that the ever-elusive Earth-1 Batman also looks like Conroy. If the actor could have a scene where he does something cool (ideally as Batman, but if legal rights prohibit that, then just being a good Bruce Wayne who doesn't instantly die in corny ways would be fine).

Overall, I feel like this crossover had all the right ingredients (a great comic to base it on, lots of set-up in several T.V. shows, lots of good guest stars), but that it hasn't been terribly impressive so far. Still, we'll see if the last two parts can stick the landing.

GhostMachine

 CTG:

Spoiler
Instead of an insane Bruce based partially on Kingdom Come (and maybe DKR), it would have been much better if they had made him the Batman Beyond version, set somewhere around the middle of the gap between the heart attack and Terry becoming the new Batman. That way, he's still a good guy, not able to fight, and is actually playing a version he voiced.

Oliver as the Spectre is going to be awesome....provided he actually turns into the Spectre, and we don't just get Stephen Amell with glowing green eyes.

The Flash 90 dying was something I think everyone saw coming from a mile away.

Silver Shocker

So now that I can actually log on the board (yep, I've been having problems with that too) I must make a correction. I said Marc Guggenheim said there wasn't going to be a crossover next year. What he actually said is that there would not be another large one next year. It would be a smaller one. Which I actually think is a good idea. Like with the MCU, (again, Engame) it's the perfect time for a breather. The comics side of Marvel and DC could learn a lot from that mentality.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

catwhowalksbyhimself

I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Silver Shocker

Indeed. My reaction was to joke that Oliver Queen/Steven Amell is trying to imitate Emperor Palpatine and shoot out some Force Lightning. Or he's Cole McGrath from Infamous doing the same.

That does bring out a debate I've had for a while. Does bringing the Spectre into the story at this point feel like a cop-out or a Deus Ex Machina, if you ignore the comics/to people with no knowledge of The Spectre in the comics? Like, I think it's neat he's in this at all, but I feel like Jim Corrigan/the concept of the Spectre should have been set up a LOOOONG time ago (much like multiple Earths and alternate versions of heroes like Superman and Flash were set up a long time ago). As it is, it kinda feels like The Ray in Earth-X, like they're going "oh yeah, here's this other character, he's part of the story now too."
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

GhostMachine

From that poster, Oliver as The Spectre more or less looks like Oliver as Arrow, but with no mask, glowing eyes and a cloak.

Tomato

See, I agree that the specter an its purpose should have been setup sooner for it to feel more appropriate, but tbf people called the move even before he was a confirmed thing, so if he'd been introduced last year it would have ruined any chance of it being a surprise (not to mention letting fans get attached to a character that they were planning on getting rid of)

Honestly though, I feel like Oliver taking over that role is wholly appropriate. It gives him a more or less definitive ending, explains why he isn't underfoot in GAatC, but keeps him around if the writers need him. It also basically closes off exactly the loopholes they showcased, such as Lazarus pit resurrections, because there's no reason Barry or his kids would leave him dead otherwise.

As for his appearance, that's actually appropriate. Remember when Hal was the Spectre, and he took on classic GL type traits? I imagine the same thing in this case.

GhostMachine

I thought Hal as the Spectre was a stupid movie in the comics, even though I own 2 issues of JSA featuring him that I got Keith Champagne  to sign at a convention.

Oliver as the Spectre makes sense, though. He's been haunted by all the killing he did in the past as Arrow, but redeemed himself somewhat by sacrificing himself to save all those people.

Also, notice Nash is Nash and not Pariah on that poster?

catwhowalksbyhimself

#42
Okay, it's still on, but I had to stop and post over my shock about the

Spoiler
DC Movie Unverse crossover.  Seriously, that was the one thing I thought for sure we would not get!

EDIT: Finished it. Enjoyed it.  Still processing some things, but a couple of things from the ending, including one rather huge departure from the comics.

Spoiler

Multiverse still exists, although it appears to be a different multiverse.  Most notable is that Earth 2 is completely different, being Stargirl's Earth.  Like the comics, however, all the previous Arrowverse shows, including Black Lightning, are now set on Earth Prime. It also confirms that Titans and Doom Patrol are indeed separate universes, which has been confusing people for a while.

Also, Justice League!  Or proto Justice League, anyway. Love the Superfriends theme song.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Tomato

Don't forget

Spoiler
Superman flew out into space, smiled for the camera. Sweet.

Silver Shocker

#44
Well, I just finished watching Endgame again.  :P I kid, I kid. Pretty enjoyable. I'm actually (mostly) pleased with how the final episode wrapped up, and having them both on the same night actually made a lot of sense.

Spoiler


Me watching Arrow's installment: HOLY CRAP IT'S EZRA MILLER!

That was a very pleasant surprise. And pretty in character too: Ezra Miller's Flash is every bit as awkward and nervous as he was in Justice League, if not more so. I also enjoyed Gustin's Barry commenting on his suit. "Looks very safe". And Ezra's Flash got the name "The Flash" from Grant's Flash AND learned about the Speed Force from him. I wonder, if the Flashpoint movie ever gets made, is this scene going to be mentioned in some way?

Also, Crisis on Infinite Earths: the storyline so epic, they killed off Oliver Queen twice!

Lex Luthor was definitely a highlight. The creators certainly seem to like him. And it looks like he'll be making more appearances in Supergirl going forward (and is once again a villain with good publicity as in several other iterations, and owns the DEO).

Even during the crossovers, I still make a point of looking closely at the credits to see who's credited as guest star (making sure to remember that series regulars will be credited even if they don't appear in the episode). So when I saw "Reina Hardesty" credited I was like "Weather Witch is in this?" But her showing up in during a Supergirl-centric sequence is actually very effective in establishing that a) the Supergirl (and Black Lightning) Earths are now part of Earth Prime and b) that villains and supporting characters from National City and Freeland can now just pop up in Star City, Central City, and Gotham whenever the creators want, which makes things a lot more simple. I remember fondly the various episodes of Flash where characters like Felicity (who's understandably absent in these episodes - her mourning Oliver's (first) death happened in a tie-in comic, but I imagine we'll see how she's doing during the final episodes of Arrow), Diggle, Layla and Ray would pop in during Flash episodes whenever there was a good reason. This will make Supergirl guest appearances in Batgirl much more streamlined.

The return of Beebo got a laugh out of me. I noticed the episode of Legends notably avoided referencing what happened to Zari in any way (other than having her actress in the main credits; I also notice the Monitor was on there; is the Monitor going to be appearing throughout Legends this year?) Zari's namedropped in the title of an episode of Legends this year so I'm sure that'll be properly addressed going forward.

Other things I enjoyed:

-The Anti-Monitor turning giant sized, as a homage to basically every other iteration of the character (I think the Beebo reveal was also meant to make viewers think that was going to happen)
-Supergirl flying at the Monitor before Ray showed was surely a reference to the death of Supergirl during the original comic.
-Marv Wolfman cameo. I didn't know that was him so I'm glad they made a point to have him call himself "Marv".
-A quick glace at what other Earths exist - which confirmed something I'd been wondering for a while - that Doom Patrol and Titans do in fact exist in different Earths (explaining recastings and other continuity oddities between the two shows regarding the DP)
-Diggle and Layla getting their daughter back (along with John Jr) got an "ahh" out of me.
-Still a better use of Mick than the past season of Legends.

Other random thoughts:
-Lois and Clark have two sons now? Um, ok then, that's different.
-For a bit during the final episode I thought Ray was going to die and Nash was going to join the Legends. I'm glad Ray's not gone yet though - he should get more screentime before they write him out and killing him off would just take some of the spotlight off Oliver.
-Star Labs had Gleek from Superfriends? Um, that's odd. Is he still a space monkey or he more like Grodd Jr? Also, does this mean the Wonder Twins will be showing up in the future? Because they've gotten a revival in the comics recently as well....come to think of it, the term "Super Friends" has been used several times in Supergirl and Flash before this...Come to think of it, if the Hall of Justice was an abandoned Star Labs facility, what was Gleek eating?
-J'onn now looks like David Harewood, even when in costume, unless he's going to be doing things that use CGI. I see what you did there Arrowverse...
-Nash has got to go. Literally the only thing he had going for him was becoming Pariah, and now that that's over and he's still around I have no idea what they can do with him, and as I've said, the Wells gag has gotten old. I think if they're going to bring back Harry they should just keep him in the cast again and stop making the rotating Wells gag a season-long thing. And if they do insist on keeping Nash for the rest of the season they better find some way to make him more interesting.
-Man, I hope Legends doesn't suck this year...  :unsure:
-Lex is apparently an Alien and Predator fan. I'm surprised. He strikes me as more of a Citizen Kane or Amadeus man.
-[EDIT] Oh, yeah, almost forgot. Why the hell was Ryan Choi the only one who's hair (his beard) grew while they were trapped on Vanishing Point? He grew a beard, and everyone else looked exactly the same. I'm not remembering that wrong am I?

Questions I have going forward:

1. What happened to Harry Wells and Jesse?
2. Does Lex still have powers?
3. With Lex's status quo being drastically rewritten, is Lena still a villain?
4. Is Leviathan still going to be part of the plot in Supergirl?

In terms of Arrowverse shows going forward:

Spoiler

-The Arrowverse kids are apparently in the future again, as seen in next week's episode/Backdoor pilot "Green Arrow and the Canarys" aka "Arrow's back to being really boring, and SS reads stuff online for an hour"
-Superman and Lois has been picked up for a full series.
-Legends is getting another season after the current one.
-Supergirl's next two episodes should be very interesting: The first one's called "Bottle Episode" and those of us who know our Superman lore can guess what that's alluding to (Bottled Citys and/or Kandor/and/or Brainiac; and considering Krypton is now cancelled, I could see Supergirl using Brainy's evil ancestor in person now) After that, Supergirl's doing a story called "Back From The Future" featuring a copycat Toyman (another one?) and Winn coming back from the future. If Brainy goes back to the future that just leads credence to my prediction that a Legion show will happen in the future.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

catwhowalksbyhimself

The previews also confirmed a suspicion that I had.

Spoiler
Black Lightning's younger daughter also remember the multiverse.  Given that she was able to mentally contact her counterparts from Earths 1 and 2, it doesn't particularly surprise me.
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

Silver Shocker

I checked out the promos for the other shows:

Spoiler


Legends: there's plenty of Ray and Nora in the new promo (a promo for the new season, not strictly the next episode), so they'll probably be in it for a while. Ryan is notably absent. Behrad is shown several times (and I missed this, but when I went back and re-watched the Beebo sequence I caught that Sara mentions Behrad a few times, thus confirming that Zari is still replaced with him)

Flash: Is coming back a bit later than the other shows, and apparently will have some new and returning villains.

Supergirl: Lex is pulling the "that murdering scumbag wasn't me, it was a doppleganger from an alternate earth" scheme, as seen in 52. It worked there because they had an actual body to identify, so I'm curious how exactly it's supposed to work here. I just assumed Lex rewrote his own "destiny" using the book of Destiny, as seen during Crisis.

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

GhostMachine

#47
I was disappointed that there were not more cameos.

My thoughts on 4 and 5, and the future of the shows:

Spoiler
Helen Slater, Dean Cain, Teri Hatcher and Lynda Carter have all been on SUPERGIRL before. Would have been cool to see any of them (well, not Hatcher, obviously) back in costume, even if just for a few seconds.

The Marv Wolfman cameo was a nice touch.

Also, meh to Ezra Miller showing up as the movie Flash. He's my least favorite of the movie characters, because they've written that Flash as a hyperactive idiot, and the costume is awful.

Obviously, they could have Oliver pop up again as the Spectre if the threat is dangerous enough.

And hopefully the writers give Black Lightning and his supporting cast more to do in the next crossover.

Gleek and the Superfriends theme? Awesome. Wonder Twins going to show up at some poin?

Looking forward to the new shows coming, except the Canaries one or whatever they call it. Couldn't care less. The brief glimpse of Stargirl has me holding out hope for a proper JSA. The version on LEGENDS was rather disappointing. The heroes they did used almost looked like cosplayers with a midrange budget. Hope Jay is on that Earth.....


catwhowalksbyhimself

One interesting thing I just learned

Spoiler

The Miller cameo was not planned or requested by the Arrowverse people.  Warner actually called them up AFTER they had already locked down the entire 5 episodes and asked if there was any way they could fit a Miller cameo in there. They had to get Gustin and a Flash crew to agree to come in as that was not part of their contracted season.  And they had to use  a Flash crew unlike the rest of the episode because the Arrow season had already wrapped at that point and the Arrow crew no longer existed.

So that scene was the very last thing written and filmed for the crossover.

Not sure what the significance of the movie people requesting this is, but it is interesting.  Maybe a sort of stealth promotion for the upcoming film?
I am the cat that walks by himself, all ways are alike to me.

GhostMachine

Well, in that case...

Spoiler
That scene, from Miller's point of view, better be in his movie.

Tomato

Spoiler
Honestly I don't know that the scene needs to be IN the movie (the Speed Force echo and weird editing works in context, but I don't think it'd hold up in a film), but I'd be ok if we saw the prelude and aftermath... sort of like the first Flash/Supergirl crossover, where in the Flash episode Barry warps away and comes back a bit befuddled, having experienced the events from the Supergirl episode.

Silver Shocker

Spoiler
Oh it makes perfect sense for Warner Bros to put that in the movie. The Flash movie has been in development hell for years now, and with no Justice League movies coming out right now, it makes sense for WB to want to get him out there and put him back in the public eye to tide them over for the movie. Plus as near as I can tell Ezra Miller's not nearly as successful or established  an actor as Cavill or Ben Affleck (or any of the previous Batman movie actors, for that matter) so he was probably the cheapest and easiest actor to lock in. He was in The Fantastic Beasts movies, but I try not to hold that against him considering bad that last one was.

I've heard people discuss whether or not that will be in his movie, and it's been suggested it could simply be referenced as something that happened offscreen, with one person online saying Miller's Barry could simply write it off as a "dream". Though the line "I told Victor this would happen" was a curious one, since Flash didn't seem to know about the Speed Force and hadn't thought of the name Flash yet, but apparently already knows Cyborg, and it sounds like he was planning to experiment with time travel already (that "Lois Lane is the key" cameo in BVS, for example, though supposedly that would have paid off properly in the mythical Snyder Cut)

Ghost Machine:

Spoiler
QuoteThe brief glimpse of Stargirl has me holding out hope for a proper JSA. The version on LEGENDS was rather disappointing. The heroes they did used almost looked like cosplayers with a midrange budget. Hope Jay is on that Earth.....

When you say Jay, do you mean Jay Garrick in general, or the John Wesley Shipp version from the Flash show? Because it would be interesting to see if he's still around somewhere.

As for the JSA, as indicated from the Stargirl trailers, the characters are from the backstory, so at least some of them (Starman, for example) are already dead. So it might be wise not to get your hopes up. From what we've seen, I do think they look (visually, I mean) better than they did in Legends. The truth is they probably didn't value doing the JSA that well in Legends; I think the only reason they were in the show at all was to replace Mari as Vixen.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

GhostMachine

Silver Shocker:

Spoiler
I mean Jay Garrick in general. But since they did have the John Wesley Shipp version mention once that he was training a female speedster and we still haven't seen her, I'm hoping that version of Jay is still around somewhere.

I know some characters will be dead. Starman kind of has to be, due to Stargirl's backstory and having the Cosmic Staff. Apparently Joel McHale will be playing Starman. I assume that will be Jack, the more recent version, who retired. Not Ted, the original who is deceased.

The JSA, not the JLA, is my favorite DC team.