Transformers: War for Cybertron, Siege

Started by BentonGrey, July 26, 2020, 08:51:51 PM

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BentonGrey

So, I just saw the trailer for this....it actually looks pretty good.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lj9lE4Id-U
I have now exhausted my knowledge on the subject, but I am cautiously interested.  Netflix has earned the benefit of my doubt with the amazing job they did with Voltron.  I hope this will be half that good.  If so, it would be amazing.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Tomato

So I only know slightly more, in that I know the company making this series is Rooster Teeth... as in Red vs Blue, RWBY, and Gen:Lock Roosterteeth. Might seem like an odd choice if you've only seen the early machinima stuff, but RT has a really amazing animation studio, and they have been super excited for this one. I'm not super big on Transformers, but I like the art style a lot.

Podmark

War for Cybertron is the current Transformers toyline. It's essentially a modern re-imaging of the original cartoon. The first wave Siege depicts the Autobots and Decepticons war on their home planet Cybertron. The second wave is called Earthrise and is based on the war moving to earth. The last wave was recently named Kingdom and Netflix has hinted it be related to Beast Wars (which has me excited).

This cartoon is a tie-in to the toyline. It will be 3 seasons (Siege, Earthrise, and Kingdom) and the first will have 6 half hour episodes debuting Thursday. Rooster Teeth is producing it and the animation is by Polygon Pictures who animated Transformers Prime and Robots in Disguise, along with a number of CGI anime on Netflix.

This is essentially the successor to the Prime Wars Trilogy animation by Machinima which was generally considered poor. On the other hand Rooster Teeth and Netflix seem excited about this and the trailer looks promising.
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BentonGrey

Wow Pod, thanks for the info, man!  That's very interesting and informative!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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Silver Shocker

#4
Something I should point out is that the Netflix series has the exact same writers as the Combiner Wars Machina shorts series. I've seen fans on a Transformers-specific news site predict it will be poor based on that, so I'd advise curbing your enthusiasm somewhat. It certainly looks like the production values are higher but the writing might not be too great.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Silver Shocker

#5
I have seen Netflix Transformers (and can now talk about it just in time for Chapter two to come out)

It was.....ok. If you've never played War for Cybertron or read the comics and really wanted a whole series/movie out of the Cybertron scenes from the Bumblebee movie (and who wouldn't?) It'll blow your bloody doors off. If you HAVE....it's the same stuff different medium. Not a single voice reprisal from the classic stuff. It's mostly people from the last few shows (Machinima Shorts, with at least one VO from Cyberverse voicing a different character).
There's admittedly some neat, interesting stuff. Starscream as an advocate for genetic "purity" (or the Transformer equivalent) is a unique trait, but something I could definitely see coming from the character. And a notable scene stealing cameo from a certain longtime repaint, near the end, that I won't spoil, is a highlight.
Animation is....pretty good actually. I especially liked the lighting effects. Mouths and faces for characters who have human-like faces still look weird (a recurring issue in TF iterations with more realistic, less stylized CG)
It's not bad per say, and older fans will likely dig it. But IMO it's got nothing on S2 and 3 of Cyberverse which were really, really damn good. So much so in fact I stubbornly made sure to finish Cyberverse before starting this new show purely so I could make such a comparison.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Thanks for posting your thoughts, SS.  I've only watched the first two episodes, so I'm just getting started.  My initial impression is similar to yours.  It seems....fine.  It honestly seems like they're trying a bit too hard to be epic and deep, and they're doing so at the cost of the potential for fun.  It seems slow so far, but I'm sure there's much more to see.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

#7
Indeed. I find myself agreeing with you. It's so serious-minded and almost exclusively dedicated to broad G1 stuff (something we've seen done to death) that it's kinda dull and takes a lot away from the fun of the property. The War for Cybertron games got it much better. Yes, you had Megatron executing POW's in a firing line, but you also had Stan Bush songs and TF the Movie quotes, and Starscream with a crown on his head and other fun stuff (like Jazz talking like Jazz and Cliffjumper pretty much being Nathan Drake from Uncharted). This reminds me a little bit of Young Justice Outsiders, except not nearly as desperate to be adult and somehow less cynically business-driven.

This is why I say Cyberverse, despite undeniably being more of a kid's show, is way better and paradoxically FAR more epic. It has FAR more personality, which draws you into the characters more and thus makes you far more invested. For me it hits that Goldilocks sweet spot between very silly and incredibly epic (see also Reboot, Full Metal Alchemist, One Piece, JLU, the good versions of Guardians of the Galaxy, the MCU in general I suppose, fill in your examples as you see fit) It also features scene-stealing appearances by fringe favorites like Sky-Byte, Whirl, Perceptor, and even Bludgeon.

To give four really good juxtaposing examples, without spoiling too much, 1. Arcee's entire character is that she's obsessed with taking selfies 2. There's an entire episode spoofing Steve Irwin, the Crocodile Hunter (which features TF ghosts ala Starscream and Cosmos of all people as his sidekick) 3. The longrunning fandom meme that the TF's like to party and throw parades is canon in this and actually plays a notable role in the plot, and 4. A legendarily awesome scene well into S3 shows the origin of how this version of Soundwave got Laserbeak, which is an atmospheric, mostly dialogue-free sequence where he visits a snowy canyon populated by a swarm of Laserbeaks, tames one, makes it his own and declares "I shall call you...Laserbeak."

Now, that being said, the trailer for Chapter 2 of Netflix Transformers does have some neat stuff, namely Galvatron (and they're going with the comic version where Galvatron and Megs are different characters, presumably because these days the franchise is really big into making Megs an anti-hero) and the Quintessons, which would be really cool, except the Quintessons already made a GLORIOUS return as the main villains for the first half of S3 of Cyberverse.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

I haven't watched Cyberverse, really.  I think my love of the original 'toon made it hard for me to enjoy it.  It felt a bit too jarring when I tried, but perhaps I should give it another chance.  I'm afraid, as everyone knows, I'm a purist at heart.  Ha, and modern pop-culture galls me deep in my cantankerous, ornery old heart.

I'll finish this series, but I'm disappointed it isn't better.  I was pretty excited, and it so very PRETTY to look at.  Ohh, here's a minor quibble that is bothering me more and more.  The Transfomers rarely ever transform.  Even when it would make perfect sense for them to do so, like when they're running away from someone, they stay in their robot forms.  It's a minor thing, but sheesh, it's grating on me!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

#9
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 25, 2020, 02:58:50 AM
I haven't watched Cyberverse, really.  I think my love of the original 'toon made it hard for me to enjoy it.  It felt a bit too jarring when I tried, but perhaps I should give it another chance.  I'm afraid, as everyone knows, I'm a purist at heart.  Ha, and modern pop-culture galls me deep in my cantankerous, ornery old heart.

I'll finish this series, but I'm disappointed it isn't better.  I was pretty excited, and it so very PRETTY to look at.  Ohh, here's a minor quibble that is bothering me more and more.  The Transfomers rarely ever transform.  Even when it would make perfect sense for them to do so, like when they're running away from someone, they stay in their robot forms.  It's a minor thing, but sheesh, it's grating on me!

I can't blame you for feeling that way. Cyberverse's style isn't going to be for everyone, especially the G1 purists. Though I do feel the need to point out that G1 wasn't exactly bereft of pop culture references either (Wreck-Gar being the most obvious example)

If it helps, Cyberverse is half an anthology series, so you can skip almost half of it. The first season or two is also on Netflix (the Canadian version anyway) and the official Hasbro YT channel (they used to region block it but stopped doing that around S2 or so) so it's pretty easy to get back into. You can also skip pretty much all of S1. It's mostly a buddy-road trip comedy type of dealie with Bumblebee and Windblade (who have much smaller roles in the latter two seasons) while S2 and S3 turn into shows with an enormous cast on both sides waging war on Cybertron and outer space in a bizarre mashup of the 3rd season of "The Transformers" (and the animated movie, of course), Star Trek, and The Matrix of all things.

Back to Netflix TF, not transforming for a speedy getaway is a recurring oddity in TF (TF Energon was guilty of it too) but I noticed when reading the original Drift comic miniseries that outside of the kids shows, movies and video games (aka the comics and more adult-oriented fare like this) they rarely ever transform. Naturally they're not on Earth so these robots don't need to be in disguise, but I always assumed that it was because they were less concerned with enticing the young impressionable minds to get the toys, and thus less inclined to show the alt-modes. Which doesn't gel with the fact that this show IS very much a toy commercial, as the franchise has always been mockingly called.

I'm really hoping things pop once the Beast Wars characters show up. If the toyline is any indication, we might be seeing a new version of Blackarachnia along with Rattrap, and Cheetor. Then again, I'm kinda dreading the prospect of anyone other than Scott McNeil voicing Rattrap. Then again, I do remember thinking Sideswipe's voice and character in War for Cybertron would have fit very well. But for now, the show's strangely flat where it should be thrilling. I suspect that one simple change would have improved the show massively - if Cullen and Welker were in it as Optimus, Megatron and Soundwave, and maybe some other good reprisals.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Haha, ohh, I have nothing against pop-culture in general, I'm just an old curmudgeon who hates the things "the kids like these days."

Interesting.  I'll have to think about giving Cyberverse a full try.  Would you recommend I skip season 1, or is it just an option?

Now, this is strange. I could have sworn that Prime was voiced by Cullen.  Weird!  But yes, classic voice actors would certainly have helped. And, let's face it, Cullen is Optimus Prime.  In general, I find that the characters don't have a lot of personality yet, and it seems you've found more or less the same issue.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

#11
Quote from: BentonGrey on December 25, 2020, 06:29:25 AM
Haha, ohh, I have nothing against pop-culture in general, I'm just an old curmudgeon who hates the things "the kids like these days."

Interesting.  I'll have to think about giving Cyberverse a full try.  Would you recommend I skip season 1, or is it just an option?

Now, this is strange. I could have sworn that Prime was voiced by Cullen.  Weird!  But yes, classic voice actors would certainly have helped. And, let's face it, Cullen is Optimus Prime.  In general, I find that the characters don't have a lot of personality yet, and it seems you've found more or less the same issue.

I have two options I suggest. 1) Skip S1 entirely. 2) Watch the last few episodes of S1 when Grimlock and Shockwave start showing up. That's when things start getting a bit more serialized.

On the other hand, you will likely get more out of Slipstream and Shadow Striker's characters if you watch all of S1, and Macaaddam makes his earliest appearances early in S1.

It might be a good idea to specifically watch the episodes spotlighting those characters (it's kinda the infamous Clone Wars cheat sheet). "Megatron is My Hero" might also be worth watching, as it's the proper introduction to this show's version of Megatron (they're going with the modern "former gladiator turned charismatic leader" backstory for Megs in this)

Prime, Soundwave, Shockwave and Starscream are very much the characters you know, Bumblebee is pretty much classic Bee with the radio tuner gimmick from the Bay movies (which thankfully goes away after S1) and all you need to know about Windblade is she's good friends with Bee.

I should also mention that despite a good chunk of S1 and 2 taking place on Earth, there are no humans in the show. At all.

I mean, you aren't going to like the series as much as I did. That's very clear. I wouldn't want to cause you to waste your time. So if you watch it and like it, you'll in all likeliness like it less than I. I suppose it's a gamble, and it's your call whether you think that's worth your time and investment.

I've mentioned this before, but Peter Cullen is so good as Optimus Prime that both times I watched through TF Prime, the sequence where Prime almost died brought me to tears. He's also IMO by far the strongest VO performance in the War for Cybertron games (the other one being the only other reprisal I can recall, which is Gregg Berger as Grimlock.)
Naturally, one of the best things about the awesome TF Devastation game that of the main cast, almost everyone not originally voiced by Latta was back. Prime, Megs, Grimlock, even Bumblebee (who also voiced Spidey a few times). And the game was much better for it.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

#12
So, I finished it.  It was....okay.  The show definitely got better as it went, and they created some nice, exciting, and tension-filled moments in the later episodes, as well as some decent emotional beats.  However, the earlier issues pretty much remained and endured.  They also made some weird voice casting choices.  Ironhide was just plain wrong, and Skyfire really struck me as off the entire time.  Megatron was probably the strongest, though he should really speed up his delivery a bit.  On the whole, I just kept thinking how much I wished this show would back off the melodrama a tad, but I'm still glad I watched it.

On a related note, I hate the theme these shows have developed, that Optimus Prime is somehow as equally responsible as Megatron for the destruction of Cybertron.  That's just idiotic.  They're trying to be edgy and anti-war, but it just comes off as stupid and myopic.

Ohh, and SS, I tried out an episode of Cyberverse.  I don't think it's for me, and Optimus having a normal human-style mouth is a deal breaker, ha!  ;)
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

#13
Ahh, nice to see you still didn't think it was all that good. I do second guess myself sometimes.

QuoteThey also made some weird voice casting choices.  Ironhide was just plain wrong, and Skyfire really struck me as off the entire time.  Megatron was probably the strongest, though he should really speed up his delivery a bit.

To quote the TF Wiki about Megs in Combiner Wars (same actor):

QuoteTo give SOME iota of praise to the show, while almost every other character has been broadly criticized, Megatron was almost universally praised. His personality being a combination of wizened old soldier and constant snarker, the above-expected quality of his vocal effects, and the excellent performance of Jason Marnocha led to him being widely regarded as a runaway success. He's so well done, it's difficult to believe he's actually appearing in the same show as everyone else.

I don't go that far (the raspy voice is a bit forced, but I feel that way for just about every VO who's attempting to do an imitation of Welker's Megatron or Latta's Starscream) but he's probably one of the better ones.

I've heard someone say Wheeljack sounds like Rocket Racoon....but he's actually just doing the kind of voice G1 inspired Wheeljack has always had (it's pretty similar to the voice he had in the TF Devastation video game).

With Skyfire (if you mean Jetfire, I understood that reference) he's voiced by Keith Silverstein, one of the most well-known voice actors in this show's cast (he was the voice of Kirby O'Neil in the 2012 TMNT, and has a long and impressive Anime VO resume; I quite like him) I thought he was one of the best performances here, but he doesn't necessarily sounds like other versions of the character (for example, he sounds nothing like he did in the War for Cybertron video game)

QuoteOhh, and SS, I tried out an episode of Cyberverse.  I don't think it's for me, and Optimus having a normal human-style mouth is a deal breaker, ha!

Fair enough, I can't blame you for that, and good for you for giving it a try. Sadly if you can't get past Prime having a human-style mouth you wouldn't want to watch TF Prime because he goes back and forth between the two in that show. Which is a shame because TF Prime is one of the best TF shows.

Talking about these shows with you a few days ago, I realized that of the three areas a TF show juggles (story, cast - meaning voice cast and characterization, though you could actually classify characterization under story - and animation) I consider animation the least important one, and a good TF show should be strong in at least two of those areas, with one of them being story. Most are strong in two areas, several are strong in three. IMO this one's only strong in the area of animation.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

QuoteWith Skyfire (if you mean Jetfire, I understood that reference) he's voiced by Keith Silverstein, one of the most well-known voice actors in this show's cast (he was the voice of Kirby O'Neil in the 2012 TMNT, and has a long and impressive Anime VO resume; I quite like him)

He is a Char. If thats still a meme.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#15
"Captain Quatro, HE IS A CHAR." I understood that reference.
To quote the Nostalgia Critic: "A classic never goes out of style, no matter how stupid it is."
"They can't tell it's me because I'm wearing sunglasses." Zeta was one of the better shows, but that was really stupid.

I quite liked him as Char. And Johan from Monster.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

HarryTrotter

You could kinda handwave it as him mostly being seen with a mask up to that point,or more likely... everyone else has the recognition skills of Ash from Pokemon.
I did chuckle in Unicorn when everyone recognized Chars voice... since Silverstein doesn't sound like any of the previous VAs. It works in the Japanese version,ofc.
''Even our origin stories have gone sour.''
Jon Farmer

Silver Shocker

#17
So chapter 2 of "Transformers: You Only Think It's Actually Good" is out, and I've, so far, watched 1 and a half episodes of it, and I was actively bored watching that much. I fully understand that part of it was how underwhelming it's been and the crippling realization I've still got one more full chapter before the Beast Wars stuff shows up (and let's be honest, it's going to be mediocre. How could it not?)

Megatron and Shockwave are arguing about something or other and Megatron threatens him with cliche villain dialogue and I'm just thinking how weak and generic the dialogue is. We've seen it a million times. The dialogue in that scene would be weak in a sub-par fanfic.

[EDIT]: Oh snap, I just remembered another thing I wanted to add that bothered me. I have now seen the Quintessons in the actual show, and despite the animation generally being rather good in Netflix Transformers. I wasn't really impressed. Why? Well, one of the reasons I really loved the Quintessons in TF Cyberverse was the way they are animated. The only other time (to my knowledge) they've appeared in CG in a show was in Energon, where the one that was a major character had no animation at all in any of the facial features. So what did Cyberverse do? The exact opposite. They animated everything about their faces. It wasn't just "open mouth, shut mouth" like you will see in a lot of animated projects. They had full movement in their faces. Their eyes narrow or open wide, their heads tilt, and their chins move. It looks great, it's expressive in the way cartoons should be, and I found it drew me more into the story and characters.

Here's a link to the official Youtube upload of the debut episode for the Quintesson Judges, for anyone who wants to check them out [Wink Wink Benton]. Starts at 6:51, spoilers obviously [EDIT, I back back much later and checked the link, and the video has been made private. Oh well.]

So I'm rather disappointed that they are less elaborately animated in Netflix TF, with more of a "open mouth, shut mouth" approach, with only the chins moving besides. And this is a good example of why I made damn sure to finish Cyberverse first and why I'm rather hard on Netflix TF. Considering Hasbro seems to pivoting toward the animation quality and away from good writing and a good cast, I expect better in this area.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Silver Shocker

#18
Finished War for Cybertron: Earthrise.

It's....similar to chapter one, but it IS a good deal more exciting in spots. The animation and graphics are still pretty good, the lighting effects are still REALLY good, and the story is still largely flat in place with a few bright moments. This chapter is decidely more ambitious, introducing and juggling a number of elaborate new story concepts that really left me feeling this series needs more episodes in its run to properly utilize such things.

As a toy commercial, it works functionally well, and in a similar way to the animated movie- bringing in new characters JUST long enough to spark an interest in their toy.

One thing Benton, that you'll still hate about this series that has come up several times from fans and reviews....Optimus Prime is kinda the worst in this. Not only does he have a below-par voice, but a common criticism of him in this show is that he's either a bad leader, or the show's narrative is attempting to present him as a poor leader.

One positive I have about the show that kinda works in its favor, is that by this point I'm used to the voices so they don't bother me nearly as much anymore....except Optimus, because he does a lot of shouting in this, and he's terrible at it.

Starscream's Latta-impression is still a little too...flamboyant, but I'm getting used to it, even if by degrees.

So ambitious is this chapter, a little all the over place if honest, that I actually have a fair amount to cover under the cut, which itself is an improvement over chapter one in a way:

Spoiler
Scorponok was.....actually pretty great. Guy was a BEAST in this. He's like IDW Bebop and Rocksteady. I don't have the nostalgic attachment to G1 Scorponok, but I gotta admit he had a pretty impressive showing here. I especially like how his voice reminded me of Beast Wars Rampage.

However, during the fights with him in episode 4 you really tell how poor the voice for Optimus Prime is. When he's shouting he doesn't sound right at all. You can also notice this during the sequence in ep 4 when he's stranded with Megs. He sounds ok when he's talking calmly, but he sounds TERRIBLE when he's shouting.

Arcee: We should have known you couldn't trust a bot named Doubledealer!

See, THAT's cute. They actually remembered for a hot second how silly and fun this property can be when you let it.

YAY Ravage shows up in this. I always liked the little cassette kitty cat.

Megatron harvesting dying Transformers for energon for the Nemesis....that's pretty cool. It feels very appropriate for Megs and reminds me a lot of how he purposely sacrifices Trypticon to turn him into the Nemesis in Fall of Cybertron.

Starscream does the usual "I still function" routine only to be abruptly shot down a reactor pit by Megatron. Ok, THAT was pretty fun.

Sky-Lynx, what a random choice of character to include. Not sure how I feel about Alpha Trion's voice in this.

Galatron's debut being an homage to his debut in the animated movie, I gotta admit, that's pretty cool. Cheesy, but cool. He looks a bit weird in this art style.

Ah, they're doing the "dead universe" like in the comics, neat.

The multiverse rift in space was done in Cyberverse as well.

I give Jason Marnocha credit for modifying his voice for Galvatron.

The whole Skylynx thing is interesting, but I felt it went on WAY too long.

Nemesis Prime? Oh teh noes.

Um, the writers do know the Golden Disk from Beast Wars was a real thing in OUR world, right? It was a disc onboard the Voyager spacecraft. This was specifically brought up in Beast Wars. I'm not even going to TRY to figure out Megs getting it from a time-travelling, dimension hopping Galvatron considering G1 Megatron left his message on his golden disc BEFORE becoming Galvatron, and never got a chance to get it back.

Shockwave vs Elita was pretty cool, and reminded me of the fights in the Transformers video games (Shockwave is indeed a boss battle in Devastation). And I like to think of it as a reference to Shockwave's memorable line in G1 "Female Autobots. You DO exist."

And of course, the reveal of Beast Wars Dinobot. I do look forward to Chapter 3: Kingdom for more of that kinda stuff.

So yeah, I do recommend it. It's not quite where I'd like it to be, but it keeps moving enough that it's usually not boring, which was the main thing I was hoping for. If Kingdom pulls it off I can have some fun with this.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

So, I've watched three episodes of the second series, and it remains about the same...but woof....the opening for episode three was almost too much for me.  Prime naval gazing on the hull of the Arc and whinging about how he's to blame for everything....sheesh.  The actual adventure was fairly cool, and I really enjoyed seeing the series actually play with people changing sides and having moral awakenings and such.  That's interesting.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
https://bentongrey.wordpress.com/

Silver Shocker

#20
Still only on the first 3 episodes eh?  :o Oh dear. I still can't wait to hear thoughts on that business in the middle.

So I take it you're not as harsh as me on Prime's acting? (the  writing on him, on the other hand...  :P Oh boy, you wait till you get to episode 4  ;) ) I thought maybe I was being too hard on him because of how dry this show is, but I loaded up the episode again for about a minute and got to the fight, and no, I still think his attempts at emoting sound like scrap.

No specific comment on our classic G1 nostalgic guest star?  ^_^

Oh, and before I forget....

QuoteI was pretty excited, and it so very PRETTY to look at.

I've been meaning to ask, have you seen the Cybertron scenes from Bumblebee?

*Sigh* I miss Peter Cullen so bad.  :wub:

"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Haha, I've been taking it slowly so as not to get sick of it, been watching a lot of other stuff in between.  I think about your reviews every time I watch some of it, haha.

Prime's acting isn't great, but yeah, the writing just looms so large for me that it makes me feel like you can hardly blame the acting. 

Scorponok, I assume you mean?  He was really cool and threatening, and I actually quite liked the whole horror vibe they created in the space station.  I thought all of that was quite well done.  I don't have any investment in the character, though, as I have zero memory of him from G1.  He must have been in the last season, maybe?  My memory of those episodes is quite fuzzy.  I'm not actually 100% sure I ever saw them...

Bumblebee:

Ohh....my....gosh....WOW!  I had no idea!!!  SS, why didn't you tell me sooner!  :D  Wow, that is so awesome!  Why couldn't we get an entire movie like that?  I had thought that Bumblebee looked a whole lot more like the classic designs, and I even thought about seeing it...but heck, I'd have gone to see it for that Cybertron, cartoon-accurate scene by itself!  Everybody looks so fantastic!
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

QuoteI don't have any investment in the character, though, as I have zero memory of him from G1.  He must have been in the last season, maybe?  My memory of those episodes is quite fuzzy.  I'm not actually 100% sure I ever saw them...

He was in the Rebirth. A 3-episode miniseries that was released on home media several times over (such as streaming on Tubi). I wouldn't get too worried about it though. Rebirth is terrible from a narrative stance IMO - It exists only to introduce an enormous number of new characters, including the Headmasters, and the first episode alone introduces almost two dozen new characters (such as Punch and DoublePunch) one right after the other in the most forced, unnatural way possible. It's also animated by the infamous ACOM, so it's not visually TF at its best either. The opening credits are gorgeous though, but IIRC they are repurposed from an "actual" toy commercial.

His impressive showing here is one of the reasons I mark up Chapter Two.....slightly.

As for Transformers G1 style at its best visually:

QuoteOhh....my....gosh....WOW!  I had no idea!!!  SS, why didn't you tell me sooner!  :D  Wow, that is so awesome!  Why couldn't we get an entire movie like that?  I had thought that Bumblebee looked a whole lot more like the classic designs, and I even thought about seeing it...but heck, I'd have gone to see it for that Cybertron, cartoon-accurate scene by itself!  Everybody looks so fantastic!

It's pretty great isn't it?  :D

I did briefly mention it in my review of Chapter One of Netflix War For Cybertron, when mentioning that it was all seen-it-all-before. It's also a big reason why I marked down this show.

The movie was about two years ago, so I kinda got over it, which is why I didn't gush so much about it, but I've probably watched that one clip at least a dozen times. It's even better looking in 4K, but the clip on Youtube leaves off the end bit with Prime.

I can't blame you for not paying too much attention to Bumblebee after 5 movies of Bay - he had almost nothing to do with Bee, and it is better than all of those other films and the first genuinely good "live-action" TF movie.

QuoteWhy couldn't we get an entire movie like that?

We ARE getting an entire movie of just that.  :D
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Yeah, I looked the character up and saw that was his only appearance.  I'm thinking I've never seen those episodes, though I must own them.  Ha, weird.

Yeah, the fact that Bay wasn't involved in the movie is the only reason I even considered seeing it, ha!

Quote from: Silver Shocker on February 26, 2021, 02:38:10 AM
We ARE getting an entire movie of just that.  :D

WHAT?!?!?!  When?!  How?!

God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

#24
QuoteWHAT?!?!?!  When?!  How?!

Short version? As always, IT'S MONEEEEEEEY! (insert Abba, Batman 89, "We've Got to Have Money", or  Laurence Olivier reference as you see fit. Originally the reference was going to be "We've Got to Have Money" but that was too obvious, and I remembered this gem and just had to share an absolute classic!  :cool:

1. Because Bumblebee properly budgeted itself, so it actually made some money. For example, the majority of the movie's narrative conflict is between Bumblebee and two Decepticons (Blitzwing is in all of one scene)
2. Because people actually liked Bumblebee. (There's a reason Halee Steinfeld is playing Kate Bishop in Hawkeye)
3. Because Bay, by his own admission, didn't care for the IP (and it showed) and the people who ARE making this new stuff do. Bumblebee's director Travis Knight has a background in animation, having directed the well received Kubo and the Two Strings, and he was a fan of the G1 Transformers.
4. Hasbro's all in the whole movie franchise dealie. I've been looking over several articles about financial statements, and plans for future projects, and all sorts of stuff, but they want to make movies of all the things. More G.I. Joe, for example, but also Bumblebee 2, Beast Wars, a soft reboot sequel to Part 5 (which means more Quintessons AND Unicron. YAY!) and a animated movie of the War for Cybertron (which, being on Cybertron and lacking human live action actors, will of course be extremely easy to make)

From Wikipedia, citing Deadline Hollywood (I saw this stuff on a Transformers-centric news site):

"Transformers animated prequel: In September 2015, it was announced that Barrer and Ferrari [members of the "brain trust" writing team they assembled a few years ago] were hired to write a film that will explore the origins of Cybertron, with a working title of "Transformers One". In April 2020, Josh Cooley signed on to direct the animated prequel film. Barrer and Ferrari will co-write a new draft of their "Transformers One" script, with Cooley. Lorenzo di Bonaventura [the Producer who's the current man with the plan; something of a Kevin Feige or a Kathleen Kennedy] and Mark Vahradian will serve as producers. The story will take place entirely on Cybertron, and will explore the relationship between Optimus Prime and Megatron, "separate and apart" from what has been portrayed in the live-action films. The project will be a joint-venture production between Hasbro Entertainment, eOne, and Paramount Animation."

The Japanese video game industry and the comic book industry like to use the number 0 to denote the early days of something, but for Transformers the number 1 carries a very deliberate and clear message to the fandom, and people involved in TF not named Michael Bay are of course, very attuned to what that fandom actually likes and responds to.

Given the current situation as it pertains to movie-making, the Cybertron film will likely be the first one to come out due to being 100% CGI.

As for Megs, he was left out of Bumblebee because they waffled back and forth on whether it was a reboot. Which is a shame, because one thing that would have made that sequence sweeter would be a G1 or WFC-inspired Megs, voiced by Welker (who took over the role in 4 and 5) walking up and going "I would have waited an eternity for this Prime" or some such.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Silver Shocker

So the release date for Chapter 3: Kingdom was recently revealed. July.

A teaser image shows what Beast Wars characters will be in it. Indeed, Airazor (featured in the toyline) will there as a Maximal from the start, likely due to the Maximals needing a female and Blackarachnia being on the Predacon side.

Promotional material talks about Starscream teaming up with Waspinator. That could be fun. The new toy for Waspinator has a pretty scary set of teeth, so I think he might be played more straight in this show.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

Silver Shocker

#26
At very long last, Kingdom is finally out.

So far I've seen the first episode, and while I do want to watch the rest, it'll be a bit, so I'll give my thoughts for now:

How is it? Ehhhh....

Ok, let's get this out of the way right out of the barn gate. It LOOKS great. Just about every single character looks great. They are a bit boxy, but that's likely to mix with the G1 designs, and that's fine.

Ok, so in the short-lived and much derided reboot of Reboot, there's one episode where the actual cast of Reboot shows up. They look good, they sound good (with the proper voices) but the writing is just "They run into the main characters and say a few lines that don't feel like the writers actually watched Reboot" this is a lot like that.

The Autobots show up and immediately get into a fight with the Maximals. It's like Infinity War without the plot.

The difference between the show I grew up with and love and this one, is jarring, and I know from an advance review I'm not the only one who felt that way.

Various thoughts:

[offtopic]
Optimus Primal has a more growling voice, presumably because he turns into a gorilla and to make him sound distinct from Prime even though that wasn't really his character (see also Ron Pearlman as Primal elsewhere). And his acting isn't a far cry from Prime's.

The Maximals and the Predacons use the same transforming sound as the Autobots and Decepticons - it's not wrong, per say, but it's so jarring.

And then we hear BW Megs' voice. It's soooo bad. It doesn't sound remotely like David Kaye and it's not very fitting for the character. He's not even written remotely like BW Megs. He starts sucking up to G1 Megs as soon as he met him, and while I am expecting him to be doing a con, and it seems to be implied he is, I still don't think it's how he really would react. I do realize this is a different iteration and characterisation will likely differ in certain regards, (not the first time this was happened - see Transformers Prime) but when they look this dead-on, it's jarring.

-Rhinox sounds decent. Cheetor is passable. Airrazor sounds nothing like her original voice actress, but I was prepared for it.
-Tigatron has a snarling voice that sounds more like Beast Wars Inferno than Tigatron. Points for effort, but it didn't quite get there.
-Blackarachnia sounds really rather good! Finally someone who nailed it. BA "teaming up" with Starscream (again, as seen in the Starscream's ghost episode of BW) is a winning bit. Sadly, she doesn't look so hot. Something about the detailing on her face in this art style looks a bit odd.
-It took the entirely of the first episode, but I finally got to hear Rattrap's voice. It's soooo bad. You can tell he's trying to do the voice, but it just didn't stick the landing.
-Music doesn't sound anything like Beast Wars, but I wasn't expecting it to.
-BW Megs petting his own TRex head/hand is a much appreciated touch.
-G1 stuff is consistent with the previous two chapters. [/offtopic]

The one spoiler bit in this episode:

Spoiler
The BW Maximals inform the Prime and the Autobots of the threat of "Nemesis Prime" so like a time travelling Galvatron, Nemesis is Prime from the future travelled back to the past to Earth to cause trouble alongside the regular Prime and the G1 Transformers' descendants. Sure, why not?

In other TF news, the TF film producer, once again, talked about Bumblebee and other future films, and this part I thought was especially good:

QuoteQ: Was Bumblebee a bit of a gamble? Did it pay off? It seemed successful, but maybe modestly so.

A: I rarely criticize the marketing campaigns because it is what it is, but it truly had an abysmal marketing campaign. They were trying to sell it too soft and so it became like we were selling an animated movie or something. But the result of it was that the movie is really loved. It re-engaged the audience in a very different way and was very successful in that. I think from a financial point of view, you're right, it was a modest success. But for the franchise, it was a big success. It reminded the audience of their sort of elemental connection to these metal beings and why we love them and why we care about their personality. So I think on that level, it was a smashing success. The best measure is we got to go on ahead and make another Transformers movie.

Lorenzo di Bonaventura has a bit too much of that studio suit producer buzzword jargon, but I do agree with the broad sentiment with Bumblebee.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Okay, so very late to the party, I finally finished the middle chapter, Earthrise.  My ultimate take on it was much the same as the first series, sadly.  It's beautiful to look at but hits all the wrong notes.  It's excruciatingly slow more often than not, wildly unnecessarily dark, grim, and joyless, and it weird and frustrating choices with characters.  There are a lot of cool ideas, a lot of nice moments, but they are overwhelmed by a project that seems to forget that the concept of giant robots that turn into other things is supposed to be cool and fun.  I'm all for elevating the material and telling more nuanced and developed stories.  I absolutely love the 2000s era Dreamwave books that did just that, but they also had a sense of heroism and humor that is just plain missing in this show.

For an example of all of these qualities, in the final episode:
Spoiler
What is the point of the whole Cog thing?  Have we even seen this character before this point?  If so, not much, but he shows up in order to witness Prime's completely ridiculous moral quandary, gets blown out into space, survives to save the day with a cool, moody, and mysterious sequence where he storms the enemy ship, only to then get killed by his own people without anyone knowing about it.  It's all completely pointless, as nobody changes or is affected by this, and the character hasn't been around enough for his death to have any particular impact.  I think the people behind this show must be nihilists.  "Everything is meaningless.  Here's a meaningless character death to illustrate the point."

I'm not sorry I watched it, but I think I'm done.  I think I know what these people have to say now, and it just doesn't really interest me.  And that's a shame, because this should have been amazing.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
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Silver Shocker

Can't say I blame you for giving up at this point. I watched two more episodes of the third chapter, and I'm not really thrilled with the G1-based content or the Beast Wars content.

Spoiler
So uninvolving was Cog that I actually completely forgot about him until he briefly came up again in chapter 3!

Episode 2-4 [of TF War for Cybertron: Kingdom]:

-Dinobot's voice definately doesn't work. If I wasn't looking at the screen I wouldn't even be able to tell which character was talking. And BW Megatron's voice is even worse. After these two G1-style Megatron is sounding a LOT better.

Spoiler

-Dinobot vs Soundwave, brief as it was, is definitely a TF fan's dream come true.
-Episode 3 is Dinobot-heavy, and blatantly lifts from the beloved Beast Wars episode Code of Hero without earning it even close to as well as that episode did. Killing off Dinobot within 3 episodes when he was barely in the first one and trying to make it a big dramatic moment really doesn't work. We have Dinobot calling Rattrap "Vermin", Rattrap calling him "Chopper-face" and Optimus Primal saying Dinobot would have made a "terrible Maximal" when, in this iteration, as far as we know, these characters barely know Dinobot, and vice versa.

Even beyond the tone and overly dramatic nature of this series, it's clear, once again, that there's just enough episodes to tell the stories they're interested in telling. Concepts are brought in and breezed through very quickly, making it difficult for a lot of stuff to land and have any impact.

2 more episodes, but I don't imagine I'll be wowed by them.
"Now you know what you're worth? Then go out and get what you're worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits. And not pointing fingers, saying you're not where you want to be because of him, or her, or anybody. Cowards do that, and THAT AIN'T YOU. YOU'RE BETTER THAN THAT!"
~Rocky Balboa

BentonGrey

Sounds like more of the same.  Such a shame, such a real shame.
God Bless
"If God came down upon me and gave me a wish again, I'd wish to be like Aquaman, 'cause Aquaman can take the pain..." -Ballad of Aquaman
Check out mymods and blog!
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